EPTThis Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia - Page 6
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On February 28 2013 06:58 Acrofales wrote: I prefer Zare/Sylencia. Zare looks REALLY terrible with the Keir flip. if zare is scum then this would have to be bussing: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2013 00:38 zarepath wrote: I'm becoming more and more convinced that Adam isn't scum, mostly because I haven't yet found a satisfying answer to why Scum Adam would do what he did, unless it was to save Thrawn from having to duel, at which point the whole thing is a stupid association case. So I went into Keirathi's filter with some more open eyes. I hate first post town claims. Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other? He gets on Thrawn AFTER everyone else has already. This is actually pretty late in the thread. I don't like that Keirathi's first "real" contribution is piling on top of Thrawn with everyone else and not actually contributing much, just asking Fake Interrogator Questions. On February 26 2013 10:50 Keirathi wrote: It wasn't a pointless question (and thrawn never answered it either). Thrawn came out and said "hey guys, forget all this policy stuff, its pointless. Just play!" Then, despite having no other mention of Hapa, as soon as other people start talking about him, thrawn was like "oh yea, hapa should duel tomorrow!" There's not even a read in there, since he took no stance on who *SHOULD* be dueling. It was just jumping onto thread sentiment with no thoughts towards Hapa from himself. After Thrawn again. Marv has been vocal about Thrawn's scumminess all thread, and it's basically the only thing that Keir is going after. It looks like sheeping. On February 27 2013 03:58 Keirathi wrote: I thought it was just a stupid move. Arbitrarily, I think it was scummy because he cut off all discussion about other candidates, and felt like just straight OMGUS because I was trying to get some discussion out of something I viewed as scum motivated. So was it "just a stupid move," or "scummy?" At this point everyone has declared it a very stupid move, so that's an easy sheep opinion to have, but also calling him scummy -- you either think he's scummy or stupid town. Then he had the gall to say that he dueled because I was trying to back out of a half-assed scum read? I feel like this is too emotional... phrases like "he had the gall" just seems too whiny to be substantive. And for two, what happened to his scum read of Corazon earlier on night 0? Oh right, he backed out of it because of further discussion. Hell he even went so far as to say that he wasn't a "tunnel machine" and that he pulls out of tunnels all th e time. But if I try to get some discussion about something that I view as scummy to see if I'm just being paranoid, he gets all holy roller and pulls the trigger on the duel. This isn't a case, it's whining. The situation reminds me a lot of GSL 3 (i think?). I saw something that I genuinely viewed as scummy and brought it to the thread. I took a lot of flak for it, but the difference is people were willing to discuss it with me while they were calling me scum. And as I talked it out more, and got some other perspective views, I changed my read. Why is he bringing this up? What's the motivation? He's basically saying that this is exactly like the time he was town, except only if Adam HADN'T dueled him, and if his scum read was wrong and needed to evolve. That's absolutely not a case on Adam, because in this meta reference he was wrong about his scum read, and Adam is his scum read in this case. Honestly the only connection I can see being relevant in the context of this post is the fact that he was town before. And bringing up a meta case like that, just for the sake of looking more town, in the middle of a post that is supposedly supposed to be your thoughts on Adam, seems scummy. I don't like that he doesn't make a case on Adam and is only whining about being dueled. And I also don't like that he hasn't made a case on anyone/anything else SINCE being dueled. On February 27 2013 03:48 Keirathi wrote: My reads haven't changed. I still think thrawn is likely scum because of his jumping around following thread sentiments, and I still see possible scum motivation in the Adam thing that I was trying to talk about. I'll write up some more later this evening when I get home, but I don't think an hour is enough time right now. It's been a night and he hasn't posted his reads. It's convenient that NONE of his reads have changed... but he didn't even HAVE reads on anybody other than those two people. Sure he still thinks what he thought about them, but he literally hasn't thought ANYTHING about anybody else, and hasn't even bothered to think ANYTHING since? On February 26 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote: I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Wanted people to talk about Adam, really wanted it bad. On February 26 2013 14:49 Keirathi wrote: I would be fine dueling thrawn. Why would town be fine with dueling? It's not like Keirathi even had a great case on Thrawn. Although, at the same time, why would scum be fine with dueling? Like others have said, NOT wanting to duel looks worse if you're scum. I don't know how to read this, but it's a very clear statement of intent for somebody whose ONLY read has been Thrawn, and hasn't even built a real strong case on him. ##Vote Keirathi Adam isn't scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for what he did at all. then he pushed keir pretty hard till the lynch. do you think he was bussing? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
for duelist #1 votecount: - 1 vote for preservation purposes | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
so zarepath/alderaan/oats... Out of those, the person I'm most interested in atm is actually oats. Even before keir flipped red, Oats was talking in a way that made me suspicious that he knew keir would flip red. I also don't like his attitude concerning the double lynch. It's hard to tell if he actually wanted it to happen or not. I'm assuming this would be the optimal way for scum to push a double lynch when keir is getting lynched...... to add a voice to the double lynch bandwagon yet never actually join the wagon. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
yamato there is no point in insta-dueling, especially considering how we have yet to hear from dieno at all so instead of being an asshole about it you should try to convince people that acro is scum | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:41 zarepath wrote: Honestly, Acro looks way more town for his double-lynch idea than the people who adopted his double-lynch strat -- iamp and Thrawn. Mafia must have started the day thinking they could protect Keirathi, and the least committing switch they could make would be to go to a double-lynch. And honestly, what looks more scummy -- making a case that somebody is a 3P and therefore we should double-lynch on Day 1, or actually believing and agreeing with it with very little justification? so are either of them scum? iamp and thrawn went from wanting keir dead (at a time when most people wanted adam dead) to wanting both keir + adam dead. acro went from wanting adam dead (at the time most wanted adam dead) to wanting both kier + adam dead (at the time when most people wanted keir dead) and you are saying that acro is most likely town out of that group? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On March 01 2013 01:51 Acrofales wrote: Show me one moment in this game. A single moment anywhere after D1 started where I did NOT want Keir dead. On February 26 2013 19:50 Acrofales wrote: Caught up with the last page of posts now. Yamato brings up a good point. Syl brings up another. Keirathi's case was ALL about how Adam was only out to prove his townieness. Whether the case was good or not at the time is moot, I kinda liked Keirathi's later arguments for it. What I gave Adam townie points for are subtracted by Adam giving himself townie points for: it shows he was aware of how his posts are different from his scum meta. While I'm not sure it is as easy as that to change your scum meta, it is definitely possible to keep it up for a day, which is all he has done so far. + Show Spoiler [adam's post] + On February 25 2013 13:28 Adam4167 wrote: I call you emotional because I just cant see the logic behind wanting the two people causing the most discussion to duel each other. Mafia that sit in the spotlight almost always fry, and as a general rule, try to avoid it. The likelyhood of either of us being scum is not good as a result. In your hypothetical, Id kill whoever was displaying the least value to the town, as in nomination mafia. We aren't all going to agree with every lynch, and there will come a time when you may have to choose between two people you have some form of a town read on. If we all unanimously agree on all our reads then either a) our reads are wrong because the scum are agreeing with us, or b) the scum team is so inept that they got clean swept. Reemphasizing the bolded part. This is incredibly disingenious. He seems afraid the point where he is going "against the grain" will be missed and therefore needs to reiterate that fact. Especially dropping his name in next to Yamato with the "either of us". Dueling Keirathi brings this to the next step, given his motivation: I want to prove that I can read scum. Except, he didn't. He OMGUS'd based on a general thread consensus that Keirathi is scum. NOWHERE does he actually give a read on Keir, other than: This doesn't say Keir is scum, it says Keir made a bad case. One which in hindsight wasn't even that bad. Adam is overly concerned with looking like town. The whole game he has harped on about how Dieno is scum. If his real motivation is to prove his own reads are so good, why is he not dueling Dieno? I will look at his meta now. What I do know is that Palmar caught him in such a gruesome manner in Hero mafia (it's all on video) that Marv, his scumbuddy, felt forced to bus him early on D1. If that isn't a motivation to try to change up your style, I don't know what is. Here is a large post about both adam and keir. This was from fairly early in the dueling cycle. You read this post and get the sense that acro is favoring saving keir and lynching adam. He never actually states this though. There is no conclusion about what his actual reads are but you can tell he's suggesting that adam should be lynched. Here's when acro votes for keir via double lynch: On February 26 2013 20:59 Acrofales wrote: I browsed Keirathi's filter in what seems to be his only scumgame ever and I agree that he was active and manipulative there. However, he now has a ton of town games loading on pressure to perform as scum. I wouldn't put too much stock in Keirathi's scum meta. His play is still wildly different from his town meta, which is far more developed. I still don't see enough in his play to consider him town. Note that he never actually calls him scum, or points out anything specifically about his play that is scummy... just that he can't consider him town. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
i agree that acro has done some scummy things but it'd be ridiculous to put him up for lynch today. especially vs yamato. in the meantime, dieno once again i'd like to see some maps, and interpretations of what the maps may mean | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
Look at this reply to adam: On February 25 2013 12:17 Dienosore wrote: At the time there were like three people posting, one of which wanted to duel. The general consensus wasn't exactly agreed on when I wrote that. (Is it even agreed on now?) I was simply throwing my weight behind the plan to use our time to think things through. Because his alignment is unknown right now, I wanted him to not be so hasty in his decision to duel so we dont accidentally shoot a towny. Then I proposed the idea that we shouldn't use duels as a second lynch until someone has been absolutely confirmed town. He has backed off a little bit since all this was written, so whatever, it's moot now. However, I still think my idea is sound. If you disagree, please explain why. Just me being friendly. Would you have been happy if I just followed suit and jumped on the anti Corazon bandwagon? And it wasn't a nothing paragraph... I was asking for someone (anyone) to volunteer more info. Information is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite. As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now. Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town. Bring it on. Look at how confident and eager to duel dieno is: As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now. Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town. Bring it on. yet after adam backs down, dienosore comes in with this: On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote: Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly. Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though. and here are the rest of his comments on adam until the duel took place: "I've cooled off a bit on Adam. If he still wants to get some, I'm here to call his bluff, but I think our time is better spent looking at a few other people right now. His level of activity is about 10x's what I have seen in past games already" So it seems like Dieno's main motivating factor in originally wanting to duel adam was entirely because adam wanted to duel dieno. Dieno's scumread on adam consists of nothing, like he is only dueling to defend his namesake or some shit. This is odd because you should only be wanting to duel your strong scumreads and I don't get the feeling that Dieno had a strong scumread on adam. After adam backs down, Dieno does nothing about his read except to state that he's cooled off and want to focus on other things, but also that he's ready and willing to duel if adam wants to. So does dienosaur have a scumread on adam? Does it look like a scumread that is strong enough to be the basis of a duel? Keirathi has already shown that mafia will accept a challenge when directly called out, and I'm not convinced that dieno truly wished to duel adam in a townie way.... the way that a townie would want to duel somebody they have a strong scumread on. Keir and dieno are similar in this regard as they express a very diplomatic attitude towards dueling. They will accept a duel, but it looks more like they are accepting because of appearance reasons rather than scumhunting reasons. If I was called on to duel, I would only be willing to duel a select few people. This is because as town you are only willing to duel your strong scumreads. Deino didn't express a "i think he's scum and i'm willing to own up to my read" attitude, he had a "if he wants to duel me, i'll duel him" attitude. That is not a townie-motivated approach to dueling. + Show Spoiler [stuff i've already said] + On February 27 2013 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote: ok this is the type of bs that's pissing me off: You were "completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir." You looked at keir's filter and couldn't find anything scum-motivated. Are you fucking serious? How could you possibly not be suspicious of keir, regardless of what you think about adam? On February 27 2013 11:45 thrawn2112 wrote: dienosoe let's walk though that summary of kei's play Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph: "Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile" "The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn" "Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything." Those things are not suspicious? wtf On February 27 2013 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote: that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. keir's actual alignment probably doesn't even factor into it. town dienosore should not be looking at someone who hardcore lurked and only introduced 1 unique point to the thread and seeing them as not scummy. The theme of those posts is that Dienosore isn't suspicious of a obviously suspicious lurker. This is a scumtell. I scumslipped exactly like this in lviii by not being suspicious of a guy who dropped off in activity. I have no issue with the fact that he chose adam as his scumread. The problem is when he fails to understand the idea that keir's lurking is suspicious. He eve labels keir's play as "overly safe, kept a relatively low profile, etc." Yet he is not suspicious of keir at all for those things! He is mostly absent from the most important part of the thread thus far, the part of the thread where a scum was up for lynch. He pushes nothing during this time, he has no agenda except to make weak arguments to defend keir here: On February 27 2013 12:16 Dienosore wrote: @Adam: If you really were under zero pressure and not in danger of a lynch, then why not let Thrawn and Keirathi duel it out? I'm 95% sure that's the way the duel was heading until you jumped in. Why put yourself in danger like this? @Thrawn: Adam has made an equal number of reads this game. Considering how the duelers are pretty similar in this regard, I don't see how their volume has anything to do with determining their alignment in this situation. On February 27 2013 12:31 Dienosore wrote: Of course its a little suspicious, but we are still so early into it that I pretty much have that level of suspicion on everyone. Once you start doing big things to needlessly shake up an already unsure game, then you get put on a different level. and he throws this at Oats: On February 27 2013 16:05 Dienosore wrote: Wait, hold on... Did I read this right? Quoting this for preservation purposes. Not only does this seem ridiculously forced, dieno hasn't done anything with it. His only mention of or interaction with Oats was asking oats to clarify something somebody else said. so yeah.... we should lynch dieno tomorrow. the only question should be how do we lynch him. I'm 100% in favor of letting him pick his opponent. hapa, idk what thread you are reading where my play suggests i'm a survivor, or that I haven't been fearless, or that i could have possibly bussed keir. what is your point with all that? Are you wanting to lynch me? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
*only interaction or mention of oats since near the bottom there right before that last break | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
On March 01 2013 08:55 Hapahauli wrote: No I don't want to lynch you for now. There are three people I want to see dead before I even consider lynching you (Dino, Syl, Cora). As for why I think you're a third party, you are more passive than I'm used to seeing out of you. You're also more aggressive than I'm used to seeing out of your scum-games. You fall somewhere in the middle, and the simplest explanation is that you're a Third Party. In the last few town-games I've seen out of you, you started off with stupid random comments/votes designed to spurr discussion, and you were super-active in the early-game as well. You started off the opposite this game. In addition, I'm used to seeing more scum-hunting contributions from you. Your only major contribution is your recent case on Dieno... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=75#1489 my major contribution is calling out keir for a duel way back when and yelling at anyone who said adam should be lynched and not keir but whatever, i really don't know what filter you could possibly be reading. which is a complete rehash of my own case on him on Day 1. Not to mention that it's an overkill case that serves no purpose, since virtually everyone here wants to see Dieno hang. nobody is talking about dieno right now. we've asked him to post and stuff but he's not..... he's run off while we got into discussing acro. imo it's obvious that it's going to be a hassle to get him to duel so might as well keep yelling at him until he's willing to talk about the duel in a serious way. | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
If I had to pick one to lynch it'd probably be dieno. Yes, dieo has risen to the occasion to duel syl. But like his earlier promises to duel adam, I think the duel is more about his own appearance than it is about trying to kill scum. Neither of them have produced very much lately despite being here to make posts, but at least syl has been able to produce a scum read (Cor) and provide ample reasoning for it. yeah.... both should die, but i'm currently more impressed with syl's recent efforts than I am with dieno's | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
##Vote: Dienosaur | ||
| ||
