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On February 26 2013 15:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 14:57 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 14:49 Keirathi wrote:I would be fine dueling thrawn. On February 26 2013 14:30 Adam4167 wrote:
That case against me was god awful, stinks of nothing-scum-case. It does nothing to illustrate why i'm scum, only that I was using logic that shows I think i'm town and everyone else should think it too. My point was, I think that would be easy for you to fake, especially in light of someone else already saying the exact same thing (so you could back out of it and just be like "Oh Yam did it first, sorry guyz"), and then using the opportunity to manipulate town opinion. If you're town, what was your goal with that statement? I can only see trying to bully people into a read of you, and I don't know why you would need to do that as town. My goal was to a) illustrate that I thought Yamato was town for going against the grain, as I was, and b) to stop people (corazon mainly) wasting time on focusing on someone I feel is clearly not scum. I feel like it did a good job of accomplishing those objectives. So, if you are town and you believe yamato is town for being willing to go against the grain, then why do you need to "go against the grain" too? Do we need 2 townies on day 1 who are willing to step in for the duel? Did you mean "Oh, later on after yamato dies (because I think he's town and he can do it fine), I'll step up and duel people" ? The sentiment behind the idea is all well and good, but in your case it literally serves no purpose except to bully people into thinking you are town.
I didn't 'need' to go against the grain. I put my thoughts forward that making two other people duel on your behalf was weak and cowardly, and that I would rather follow my own reads and duel them. That just happened to conflict with what everyone else wanted.
I was never going to 'step in and duel' on towns behalf after yamato died or otherwise, as it flies blatantly in the face of what I was saying. I will duel who I think is scum, no one else.
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This point isnt going anywhere because there is no point to begin with.
Even if I were stepping forward to 'duel on towns behalf after yamato died or otherwise', how does that show only scum motivation? It could just as easily be coming from a townie wanting to fight.
Bad case.
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On February 26 2013 15:45 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 15:16 thrawn2112 wrote:On February 26 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: That's why it came across as fake to me. Town doesn't benefit from your stance at all (unless you want to argue that you are more likely town than yamato), only you do. keir I feel like this point isn't going to go anywhere... what else makes you think adam is scum? Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 15:20 Adam4167 wrote:
This point isnt going anywhere because there is no point to begin with.
Even if I were stepping forward to 'duel on towns behalf after yamato died or otherwise', how does that show only scum motivation? It could just as easily be coming from a townie wanting to fight.
Bad case. You're brushing away my point with trivialities. I don't really give a shit what your actual stance on who should duel is, if you can provide good reasoning and show why its good for town. What does concern me is that I can't see any actual point to your stance. How is it beneficial to town? You see, the problem is, you may never even have to back your stance up in this game. What if every day we have a town collective agreement on who should duel? Or someone goes balls deep and duels on their own? Or someone refuses to duel, and we have a Likely Townie step in the duel the person who refuses? Etc, etc. When it gets to day 6 or something, and you've never had to actually back up your opinion on how you would handle the dueling, you can still say "But look guys, I'm town because I had a unique idea day 1 even though it didn't actually mean anything and I never had to put it into practice!" Do you not see how that could be beneficial for scum?
I don't even know what the hell you're arguing anymore. Whatever it is, it isn't making me scum.
Mess with the bull, you get the horns.
##Duel: Keirathi
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On February 26 2013 16:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now?
Because I felt like it.
I came here to duel, not vote and then duel when everyone agrees like a watered down version of a normal mafia game.
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On February 26 2013 16:46 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 16:25 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 15:45 Keirathi wrote:On February 26 2013 15:16 thrawn2112 wrote:On February 26 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: That's why it came across as fake to me. Town doesn't benefit from your stance at all (unless you want to argue that you are more likely town than yamato), only you do. keir I feel like this point isn't going to go anywhere... what else makes you think adam is scum? Nothing else. I'm not entirely convinced Adam is scum, but I wanted some comments on it. On February 26 2013 15:20 Adam4167 wrote:
This point isnt going anywhere because there is no point to begin with.
Even if I were stepping forward to 'duel on towns behalf after yamato died or otherwise', how does that show only scum motivation? It could just as easily be coming from a townie wanting to fight.
Bad case. You're brushing away my point with trivialities. I don't really give a shit what your actual stance on who should duel is, if you can provide good reasoning and show why its good for town. What does concern me is that I can't see any actual point to your stance. How is it beneficial to town? You see, the problem is, you may never even have to back your stance up in this game. What if every day we have a town collective agreement on who should duel? Or someone goes balls deep and duels on their own? Or someone refuses to duel, and we have a Likely Townie step in the duel the person who refuses? Etc, etc. When it gets to day 6 or something, and you've never had to actually back up your opinion on how you would handle the dueling, you can still say "But look guys, I'm town because I had a unique idea day 1 even though it didn't actually mean anything and I never had to put it into practice!" Do you not see how that could be beneficial for scum? I don't even know what the hell you're arguing anymore. Whatever it is, it isn't making me scum. Mess with the bull, you get the horns. ##Duel: Keirathi Congrats on your e-peen wagging contest. I was trying to explain my original paranoia and figure you out, but you jump the gun instead of giving people time to discuss it. Anyways I'm going to bed for reals now. G'nite.
People can discuss it now. If they don't agree with my decision, then they can vote accordingly.
You were trying to back out of a half-assed scum read after a day of doing nothing because the thread wasn't biting.
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On February 26 2013 17:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyway
YEAH ADAM BE A MAN.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH THIS.
so Adam, why are you playing differently in this game then in chrono trigger?
You were in chrono-trigger, the answer should be somewhat evident.
I nailed a scum on day 3 (Z-BosoN) and went entirely ignored, despite my cases, until even after he flipped scum, then was somehow named scum myself.
I do not want to be ignored when I know i'm capable of catching scum.
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On February 26 2013 17:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
Huh ok,
interesting.
Do you play with Keirathi often?
I never played with him before, but it seems to me like he didnt react to any of the pressure on him at all, maybe if he didnt acknowledge it, it would go away?
Odd play for a townie.
Well, he was in Chrono, so you have played with him before.
I've played with him twice previously and I found him easily identifiable as town in both games.
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On February 26 2013 17:22 yamato77 wrote:
Despite my reads on the two of you before this, I will say that this was a truly horrid decision.
Going to have to sit on this for a while.
How was this horrible?
I think hes scum, he's suspicious of me (but not directly calling me scum).
Half the town thinks hes scum, half the town has me null or worse.
It should provide a wealth of information, if not a scum death.
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When I put your last post alongside this quote... something doesnt add up.
On February 26 2013 15:59 yamato77 wrote:
Hey Keir, wanna take up your beef with Adam's stance with me?
I'm pretty sure that guy's town, and it had nothing to do with agreeing with me. Your attack in him does seem to hinge on that point, that somehow his bravado is scum motivated, which would imply that mine was too, because I did it first as you pointed out.
Honestly, I want to see Keir hang. Someone make it happen. Sylencia is another one I could live without right now. My null reads from earlier have returned to the thread and done fuck all to make me think they're townie. Time's a wastin'
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On February 26 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote:
Now it's like the retarded end of day period where everyone's picking a wagon, only there hasn't been NEARLY ENOUGH discussion on these wagons to make either of them particularly attractive.
Yet you didn't have a problem jumping on one instantly, even after declaring that you were going to sit on it for awhile?
Yeah. OK.
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On February 26 2013 17:44 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 17:43 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote:
Now it's like the retarded end of day period where everyone's picking a wagon, only there hasn't been NEARLY ENOUGH discussion on these wagons to make either of them particularly attractive. Yet you didn't have a problem jumping on one instantly, even after declaring that you were going to sit on it for awhile? Yeah. OK. What I quickly realized was that you're more likely mafia than town for doing this. That's what that post you're trying to bury says, you know.
I'm not burying shit. Its right there for everyone to see.
My mafia play is lurky and passive, its right there in Hero mafia for everyone to see. If you think this is my mafia game, you're delusional.
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On February 26 2013 17:48 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 17:46 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:44 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:43 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote:
Now it's like the retarded end of day period where everyone's picking a wagon, only there hasn't been NEARLY ENOUGH discussion on these wagons to make either of them particularly attractive. Yet you didn't have a problem jumping on one instantly, even after declaring that you were going to sit on it for awhile? Yeah. OK. What I quickly realized was that you're more likely mafia than town for doing this. That's what that post you're trying to bury says, you know. I'm not burying shit. Its right there for everyone to see. My mafia play is lurky and passive, its right there in Hero mafia for everyone to see. If you think this is my mafia game, you're delusional. That is literally the only point in your favor right now, Adam. The only one.
The only point in my favor is that i'm playing completely opposite to my scum meta?
MMM GEE, SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD POINT TO HAVE IN MY FAVOR.
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On February 26 2013 17:53 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2013 17:51 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:48 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:46 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:44 yamato77 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:43 Adam4167 wrote:On February 26 2013 17:41 yamato77 wrote:
Now it's like the retarded end of day period where everyone's picking a wagon, only there hasn't been NEARLY ENOUGH discussion on these wagons to make either of them particularly attractive. Yet you didn't have a problem jumping on one instantly, even after declaring that you were going to sit on it for awhile? Yeah. OK. What I quickly realized was that you're more likely mafia than town for doing this. That's what that post you're trying to bury says, you know. I'm not burying shit. Its right there for everyone to see. My mafia play is lurky and passive, its right there in Hero mafia for everyone to see. If you think this is my mafia game, you're delusional. That is literally the only point in your favor right now, Adam. The only one. The only point in my favor is that i'm playing completely opposite to my scum meta? MMM GEE, SOUNDS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD POINT TO HAVE IN MY FAVOR. It's only a free-pass for so long, dude. At some point you have to judge people independent of their meta, which is what I'm doing. Your play here is mafia-motivated, as I've clearly outlined. You're not even arguing that part, you're arguing that you're somehow confirmed town because you aren't playing passive, which lets me in on the psychological mindset you have. You're concerned here with proving that you're town, not with proving that Keir is mafia, and that is exactly what Keir accused you of before.
I'm arguing your points as you bring them up. You are trying awful hard right now to emphasis just how scummy you suddenly think I am.
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My play is not mafia motivated. My actions are completely consistent with the mindset i entered this game with - when I see someone I think is scum, I will duel them.
You can cloud this all you like, it doesn't make it any less true.
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What I am trying to figure out is why someone would call for a duel, then do a complete 180 on their reads when they got their wish.
I'm going to take a breather and look at this in an hour or two.
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On February 26 2013 19:23 Acrofales wrote:
Adam: if you're town, you're a selfish douche who is not playing in town's best interest. I will reevaluate you, but I really feel like policy lynching you for playing like this. I will now fight my instincts, because I don't think policy lyncing idiots is a good idea, but that's the way I feel right now.
Well, I am town and you can call me whatever names you please, I give not a shit.
I cant even promise that this wont happen again if I survive this cycle.
+ Show Spoiler +On February 26 2013 20:59 Acrofales wrote:Okay, my meta-analysis of Adam is pretty much done and confirmed my earlier thoughts about him. He is not a Kush-esque player who is prone to doing crazy shit because he feels like it. Here is his self-analysis from WLIIA: Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 08:33 Adam4167 wrote:
Well this got interesting. Blazinghand, you are cherry picking my game history to support your meta case.
X marks the spot. You ignore more recent games such as Aperture Mafia and wiggles mini mafia II - where I did not launch into cases with my first post - both of which I was town.
You're taking a year old game, my FIRST game, and a post that I later admit to being drunk when writing and use that as evidence for aggression which you believe is lacking in this game.
Zebras. I handled you more carefully this game because I've seen your horrendous tunnel-vision in TL51 - something that was a large distraction to town.
Bolded for emphasis. Adam is not an aggressive jump-the-gun kinda guy as town. Now he claims this hasn't worked for him in Chrono Trigger, however I didn't see him change his style in LVIII or when he replaced into LIX. Why does he suddenly feel the need to change up his playstyle now? Given that his playstyle is wildly different from any previous meta, we have to take it at face value. I have already stated why I think the gung-ho duel is scum motivated, but just to hammer in the point, here is bang bang mafia 2: + Show Spoiler [brief synopsis] +MZ seriously jumping the gun (first post of D3): On June 16 2012 17:27 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
After the game I'll tell you what you should have done differently supersoft.
##Shoot: Supersoft
Ya'll ready for a pro gf snipe? Of course SS flipped town. This then dominated the thread for the next day, until MZ was shot and flipped godfather. The moral of the story: a town Adam would be more interested in the discussion. Shooting before town has had a real chance to consider and discuss is a scum move. It was so in the only other game with a similar mechanic and it is so here.
I browsed Keirathi's filter in what seems to be his only scumgame ever and I agree that he was active and manipulative there. However, he now has a ton of town games loading on pressure to perform as scum. I wouldn't put too much stock in Keirathi's scum meta. His play is still wildly different from his town meta, which is far more developed. I still don't see enough in his play to consider him town.
For now, therefore: ##vote: Double LynchLets just kill both of them. I think there's an excellent chance that one of them is scum and at the moment I cannot decide which one. I admit it seems highly unlikely they're both scum, but neither has given me a reason to think they're town. Seeing as we can kill both of them, I currently see no reason not to.
Interesting analysis. Wrong though. In chrono you specifically lumped me in the same category as Kush.
On November 21 2012 11:03 Acrofales wrote:It's no more silly than a pressure vote off the bat in a normal setup  How do you know you don't gain anything from bringing vets. It's greymist and I am expecting minigames, unconfirmed masons and other shenanigans. Having a player like kush or adam there is NOT a good idea, even if they are town.
You define my town play as "cocky" right here:
On November 26 2012 23:54 Acrofales wrote:
Adam meta:
Scum in LVI, town in Whose line is it.
As scum he is far less cocky.
As I said at the start of the game, though, my experience playing with Adam as either alignment is that he lurks the crap out of the thread and gets modkilled for inactivity.
So in Chrono, you categorized me like Kush, yet here not. In Chrono, you found me town because I am cocky, yet here not.
Why are you arguing with yourself?
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LOL YEP, that quote looks quite bad.
I really wish I was scum, it'd make post-game far more bearable.
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I take sleep where I can get it.
Reading what has transpired since last night now.
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I will consolidate why I find keriathi scummy, as some people seem to be missing it in my filter.
His play is lacking conviction and curiosity. I use this to catch many scum players because it is extremely hard to fake. It is what made my vote on Sandroba so easy in ChronoTrigger mafia, when some of the town seemed undecided.
On February 26 2013 11:01 Keirathi wrote:No solid reads yet. I'm interested in thrawn, obviously. The town thrawn I know is logical and takes his time to look at all sides of the situation, and I just haven't seen that from him this game. He's just been flying by the seat of his pants (iamp scum, no town, no scum again! Hapa should be a dueler tomorrow!) with little to no reasoning for his "reads".
He claims to have no reads, and in the same post, posts about thrawn not playing in line with what he expects from 'town thrawn' - so a read. He doesn't pursue this read with any form of questioning, just leaves it hanging.
Then his case on me, and it is a case, he even bolded my name at the top, suggested that I could be acting and how my actions were nefarious. We go back and forth and he ends up arguing that, among other things, I may never have to back up my desire to duel, which is somehow scummy.
When this case gets shot down, he starts to back out in a "I never called him scum, don't put words in my mouth" kind of way, which is exactly what I tried in Hero mafia as scum.
Since he's gone back to doing nothing. He's produced two reads for the game, neither of which he considers reads, neither of which he calls scum.
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On February 27 2013 10:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
lol adam I thought you were town when you called for the duel but each thing you've posted since then is scummier than what came before it
why did you shoot keir right then and therre? why not dino? any scum reads you have outside of those too would also help.
How is that post scummy? I specifically outline my thoughts and why I am thinking the way I am.
I did it because you looked like you were backing out and I believe its the right move.
Why not deino? because he hasn't even returned to the thread. Twice now we've got "be back soon" and then nothing. I wanted to converse with Deino more before I called a duel with him, I still think hes stalling scum, I still want to duel him too.
Ill go over my reads in the next half hour as I write them up.
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EPT
