EPT
Pretty Please Newbie Mini Mafia XXXVII
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On February 04 2013 23:54 jampidampi wrote: Nah, I spent some time cooling down. After all, if others fail to see that I'm a townie when I roll town, it must be because of my own play, not the play of others. I have obsed some games, and will hopefully play better this time around. + Show Spoiler + Waiting in the shadows until Mocsta can't play in another newbie game... + Show Spoiler + JK, JK  I just couldn't resist the urge to say that.All good. i cant anyways | ||
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Muahahhaha | ||
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Caveat. Don't expect me to be the most active player this game. As one of the more experienced newbies I'm not going to try and be a town leader. Need to give others more of a chance. That doesn't mean won't be active, just I'm not going to mayor. | ||
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On February 07 2013 07:04 Sn0_Man wrote: This is... ambitious. Good luck with 2 games simultaneous. Thanks for reading between the lines. Yes this game will be second fiddle to the other one | ||
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I was looking for to you and WarBaby high school experience. | ||
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i look forward to re-mis lynching you welcome aboard | ||
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On February 05 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote: Sarp N00bs. Here are the 4 golden rules to sealing victory for town ! First rule of newbie club: You are not Mocsta Second rule of newbie club: Don't talk about Mocsta Second last rule of of newbie club Don't try to copy Mocsta Final rule of of newbie club: Don't talk/copy/act like Mocsta  *hint hint Warbaby* | ||
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"/in" this game wouldnt be starting sunday muahahha | ||
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prome is just talking shite warbaby is treating it as a biography moment lol | ||
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On February 08 2013 11:22 cDgCorazon wrote: Just vote for Mocsta the first time he makes a case on someone. OoOOOO | ||
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in that asbestos closet | ||
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I made a comment about a finished occurence. I thought it was OK, because it wasnt alignment indicative, but in hindsight shouldnt have made a reference at all. Lets just leave it and move on please. | ||
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Me tinkz me be tr011y tis g4m3 | ||
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U vote 4 the moc-attack and its carries as a vote for his d0ppleg4ng3r warbaby | ||
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y arent u playing again my strangest love? | ||
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my cover is gone, so im trying to get two guys onto me by association o.0 | ||
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On February 08 2013 23:20 JacobStrangelove wrote: I'll come onto you Mocca, we can be alone together.... with Warbaby.... we can be more than an association. Just you and I.... and warbaby. WIFOM all night long. At least you didnt write cum | ||
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When the game starts I recommend typing /confirm Will make it easier when filter searching | ||
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On February 09 2013 12:06 geript wrote: /confirm Yes I would like to know where he got those coconuts. There're rather stylish and would be great bust support while matching my beard. Looks like my alter-ego Warbaby already told you. When the Day1 post starts write /confirm that way,w hen ppl search ya filter, they can ctrl+f "/confirm" to find out where it starts (only ebcause so much pre-game bullshit.. i might already be past 1 page 0 | ||
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Would you guys have a problem if for this game I trolled: by trying to consolidate my ideas as much as possible? i.e. I am allowed a maximum of 5 posts every 12 hrs? OR would you prefer I only wrote in haikus? / some other sort of weird-thing. OR <insert other> | ||
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On February 09 2013 13:38 warbaby wrote: If you want more Game of Thrones, you need to read the books. + Show Spoiler [Condescending Hipster Mode Active] + I started reading the books years before the (also amazingly good) HBO show came out. Second best fantasy series I ever read -- although I don't read a lot of fantasy. I just watch it for Ros | ||
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On February 09 2013 13:53 warbaby wrote: I enjoyed how book 4 was meandering and diffuse. But I enjoy meandering, diffuse books (War and Peace was by far my favorite book of all time -- Tolstoy makes GRRM look like a toddler playing with alphabet blocks). I prefer Green Egg n Ham | ||
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On February 09 2013 16:43 Sn0_Man wrote: Green Eggs and Ham, fantasy book eh? Yeah the fantasy of the greek god ZEUS <spelt wrong intentionally ppls> | ||
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Dr. Seuss Greek god zeus | ||
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On February 10 2013 07:46 Dandel Ion wrote: You're welcome to lynch me. Need AxleGreaser for that | ||
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was meant to start -3hrs ago. do do do dod (I will treat this as my first post, and shut up till Day post comes out) /confirm | ||
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On February 07 2013 23:19 Acrofales wrote: We have a full house. Prospected start: Sunday [unparsable timestamp format]. If you wanted to /in but see we're full up, we are happy to take on potential replacements On preview, this shows as: " Prospected start: Sunday 09:00 AWST (+08:00)." My time right now is:12:27PM +8GMT | ||
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i.e. it will say this post is 14:00.. but its actually 13:00 Anyways, so Monday 09:00am works fine for me (will be Sunday for the Americanos) I shall be @ work, and it will be lynch deadline in my other game. I prob will be very low activity for the first 12 hrs.. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED about my absence. Than if scum I shall lurk as hard as I can. knowing this is the (wood) bronze league, I know i can make it to end game with 1 post per cycle. Will prob make an association post containing everyones nationalities, I know from history this will keep me going to at least Day 2. If town, I shall write my thoughts, and then do the opposite. This is guaranteed to lynch scum. Perhaps that means if i write something, I WILL oppose and write NOTHING. hmmm that will be my scummy lurker play though? *sigh* decisions what to do? Maybe I just live thorugh my doppleganger, warbaby YES if warbaby does something scummy, you know he is acting on my behalf. LYNCH HIM, to save me!! | ||
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IMPORTANT CASE Guys this needs to be discussed before the game starts (so you do not question my intent etc) Historically it is VERY difficult to lynch scum Day 1. It is not impossible, but odds are rarely in towns favour. Why? (1) Town out number Scum 10-3 (2) Day1 Agendas are identical for town/scum: As per Incognito guide - "Establish innocence" and then scumhunt. Hence to catch scum day 1 you are relying on one of the two things:
The Proposal VOTE: RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR (RNG) lynch. On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. For those not in the know, Kitaman is a pretty damn fine mafia player. If he was in this game, i would be listening to him. All his experience in the game, has suggested that Day1 scum hunting is unreliable for a scum hit. Why go through the pain of mislynching and subsequently painting the mislynch pursuers as scum; resulting in an even worse position for town. (2 down from day/night cycle + more mislynch to follow). We can avoid all this plain; the key is the RNG. Its simple, someone screen records them going to randomnumbergenerator website; lists 1-13 as limits and receives a number. Posts it on youtube or whatever and links to the thread. That way we know they arent listing a number enforcing their agenda. If thats too hard, just use skype for vid feed whatever. Point is; with RNG we have a guaranteed (3/13 = 23%) to lynch scum. with scum hunting, it maybe be 0% if the mislynch bandwagons as quick as it normally does. TL;DR Day1 lynches typically result in a town mislynch, followed by a scum night kill. Result, Day 2 starts, with town down by 2. Why not just stop the bullshit, and RNG; it will set town up to start Day2 on an even 1-1 footing. There is everything to gain, and NOTHING to lose. Join me on this! ##Vote: RNG | ||
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A successful RNG campaign is like getting the 1500wins with all 3 races achievement in starcraft. i.e. its fuckn hard achievement (even 2 years into SC) To do this in the newbie league, is like getting the 1500wins with all 3 races achievement NOW in Heart of the Swarm. Fellow newbies, we have an opportunity here to be part of something great. Something unique. SOMETHING that will be recorded in the history of TL-Forum Mafia. We may even make the 2013 TL Mafia awards for BEST PLAY 2013. How can you seriously consider turning down this opportunity? Join me! ##Vote: RNG For those worried about "hacking the source". that is fine.(what he said went over my head). That is fine, im here to look for solutions to get this bandwagon starting. How about: Make a live video of opening a new workbook in excel, setup a random number between 1-13 and lynch from that. I dont see how that can be faked (because its new, there is no vba behind it). Start the live feed by posting in the thread, so we know its live as well? | ||
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On February 10 2013 15:14 Sylencia wrote: RNG lynch is pretty horrible, 77% chance you hit a non-scum and you get 0 info out of it whatsoever because there would be little reason to accuse people of anything. Blank day, waste of time and only really reduces town chance of winning Have you gone through every newbie, and recorded the success rate of hitting scum Day 1? If not, perhaps you're not in a position to give an opinion that is indicative of expertise. Let me tell you, we are up to Newbie 37. The last game I know of scum lynched Day1 = newbie 31. The last game before that, is so long ago, it is a statistical outlier. 1 D1 scum in 6 games = 16.6% chance to lynch scum RNG (3 / 13) = 23% chance to lynch scum. Dunno about you, but my maths suggest 23% >>> 16.6% Henceforth, RNG >>> Newbie Scum hunting. | ||
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On February 10 2013 15:50 Sn0_Man wrote: RNG is a terrible idea. Not voting for it no matter what I roll. People in favour of it (after role pms are sent out) are scummy in my eyes. Look at the post below The percentages speak for themselves. If you do not vote RNG after the Role PMs, then YOU SIR, are scummy in my eyes! | ||
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I will more than accept my fate if the # arrived is my own demise. That I stand by. I believe in this. Believe in it with me! | ||
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just did a =randbetween(1,13) #9 Sorry zarepath, your out | ||
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Guess you forgot about your Day1 mislynch campaign on Spaghetticus already. Its OK, everyone can name 13 people in the obs qt to hit scum Day 1  | ||
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I would contest you gain MORE INFORMATION. Why? If the RNG is scum; who is going to save their buddies from a Day1 "mislynch". I should *NOT* need to explain this one to you. The percentages speak for themselves. RNG >> Newbie level scum hunting | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:08 Aquanim wrote: I didn't say you hit scum day 1 every time. Besides, the other wagon was on Corazon, who was scum. In XXXI I wanted to lynch Kick day 1, and he was scum (Kick is always scum in my games, go figure.) But my actual point is... the reactions of everyone to that case on Spaghetticus told me FAR, FAR more than a random lynch would have. You know if someone else wrote this RNG stuff, I am not so certain you would bother saying your 2cents. Regardless, Anyone can say they had a scum read on Day1 in the firing line. This game isnt about shoulda, woulda, coulda. Its about who has the majority when the timer runs out. Suffice to say, your track record isn't looking relevant to coming in here and playing the expert card. | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:09 Aquanim wrote: Yeah, yeah, sure. And on the >70% times you hit town you gain absolutely NOTHING. Good one. Edit: You do seem to be assuming that you'll always hit scum with a RNG lynch. Which is so very not true. Im not pretending the game is solved by implementing Day1 RNG. Im also not pretending OR overstating that the game is solved by scum hunting Day 1. I am stating, RNG gives us statistically a better chance to have town in even-stead with scum Day2. That has not been refuted by any arguments thus far. You act as if RNG means, discussion in town is over; in fact it is not. Discussion continues, one guy is voted; and the hunt continues for more scum. Stop pretending as if this action stops all other criteria for good town play. It most certainly does not. | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:13 warbaby wrote: RNG can be a last resort, that we decide on only in the last hour of D1 (or not at all), and only in the absence of lurkers. So there can still be voting patterns to analyze. I'm not sold on RNG though, and I think using a predetermined RNG from the pre-game is probably cheating. The difference between (unmanipulated) RNG and trying to lynch a scum (absent an obvious scumslip) is huge. Scums use their information advantage to lead the bandwagon on D1 to make sure a town is lynched. They can use multiple town targets to obfuscate their voting patterns. True RNG is random, which a D1 "scumhunt" will never be. e: To clarify, a true RNG has a chance of hitting scum D1. Absent terribly bad scum play, trying to hunt scum D1 has a 100% chance of lynching a town (although there can be information in the voting patterns). I dont know if this is possible. BUT If the moderator agreed to produce a RNG #, would you trust that? | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:18 Sylencia wrote: Moc: Newbie 33 featured one too didn't it? (Whichever one my first game was) Newbie 33 = Spag mislynch Newbie 31 = scum lynch of Oatsmaster | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:21 Mocsta wrote: Newbie 33 = Spag mislynch Newbie 31 = scum lynch of Oatsmaster The only other game I am aware of in the past 3months with a scum lynch Day 1 = Mario Mini (Hapa lynched Day 1) & Mafia LIX (prplhz lynched Day 1) Both those games were full of highly experienced players | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:21 warbaby wrote: I have no idea why a moderator would do that. Why don't you stop posting for a bit Mocsta, you're just repeating yourself and nobody is really agreeing with you. OooO Warbaby you were meant to be my clone. The line is drawn in the sand I see. Its Ok my dear  | ||
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On February 10 2013 16:23 Rad wrote: Try again! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385389 What's even better is they basically had me day 1 also, but just couldn't pull everyone together for my lynch. LEARN HOW TO PLAY THE GAME BETTER IN THE NEWBIES. HUNT SCUM. GET BETTER AT HUNTING SCUM. LYNCH SCUM WITH YOUR SKILLS D1 FOR EPIC FEEL GOODS. That's what I'd suggest ^^ Big deal, wrote a 1 instead of a 2. Point? If you want to show us your great scum hunting skills, maybe you should have joined. Everyone has a big dick in the obs; theres no pressure and you're not caught in the moment. Rad, even the some of the vets are proponents of the RNG Day 1 lynch. Theres a good reason for that. *Mostly what I have been saying, statistically town is better off* And if you want to stand here and tell me, your scum hunting is on par with the vets *I am all ears* P.S. Its not like this is my idea from scratch. I am playing a game now, where this topic was raised. Hence the concept. I also just watched a vid from a vet giving reads, where some musings on the topic was given. There is validity behind this. Your reactions are the same I had, when first presented with the concept. But that was mainly because it was raised during the Day1 play; where you cant be certain of agenda. Im mentioning this PRE-GAME, and saying I am comfortable if it leads to my demise - regardless of alignment. Completely different situation. | ||
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Any of these non-playing lurkers want to replace for me? i.e. Aquanim/Rad/whoever else? | ||
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The only person who has put up rational conversation against RNG is Aquanim; perhaps yourself. (mind you, only 3 or 4 of the 13 listed players have actually commented) Other commentary is not even related to discussing any RNG pros or cons. Its just weak argumentation against my valid points. And lets not forget JSL suggesting a fantastic proof method "everyone submit one number, than divide by 13". The real point is: yes this is pre-game and all are welcome to post. However, the case for RNG is something that immediately influences this game. I know this is a polarising topic worthy of discussion in general but I ask to keep it to the obs qt. As far as I am concerned, you should not be commenting on this topic due to the impact I just described. As an aside: If RNG was to be discussed, IMHO it can only be done pre-game, otherwise the whole situation is WIFOM and never takes off. | ||
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On February 10 2013 18:40 warbaby wrote: Jacob's idea makes sense. I've also been making sense, but apparently you don't understand me or chose to ignore me. Two players have rejected your idea, and now you want to leave the game. That's unfortunate, as your plan requires a majority of the players to agree before the game starts. Dude (1) Most of what you were commenting on was about live feed manipulation IIRC apologies if it was more substantial. & (2) I clearly said me wanting to leave was nothing to do with RNG, was just bad timing on something else - which I am still awaiting an answer for. Mr. Clone, everything I have been saying is without hidden agenda. (x) I am involved in a game where RNG was brought up *I cant comment on the game due to rules* (1) When raised during a game, it is easy to say "No" as its quite a shock to the standard way of playing. Thus it needs to be raised pre-game to bring attention to the benefits (and cons) (2) Everyone forgets, with RNG, its not like the game goes on hold for 48hrs. You keep talking, keep developing scum reads. Its a case of, most times Day1 cases are a lottery based on "perceived scum slips". If taking a gamble, might as well do it via RNG. (3) I liked the point too. If someone makes a huge scum slip and is obvious scum, than yes, policy lynch that scum motherfucker over the RNG. (This is the whole reason the topic gets discussed) Fact is Warbaby, your medic death last game could have been prevented in 3 methods of varying difficulty (a) You improved your play and not made the soft-claim (b) Town improved their play and realised your lynch didn't make sense (c) implement RNG and there is a (12/13) 92% chance you WONT be lynched. I dunno about you, but I think (c) is the easiest to implement. *Edit* just saw your post above. I thought you were lynched Day1? ohh well points (1)-(3) still hold | ||
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 We're trying for a TL 2013 award here Anyways, gonna go reformat my comp now, have fun. | ||
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Reformatting your comp And all setup files are on the has Can't even get Ethernet drivers going without some USB action Sigh | ||
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Still /in If u must know I was tossing up between this and theme mafia. Could only play one He he hopefully u get some guilt trip now for RNG hehe | ||
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see you guys at day1 post /confirm | ||
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You knew it was coming ##Vote: RNG Lets get some healthy discussion happening peoples! | ||
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geript.. if you vote for warbaby (my doppleganger) your voting for ME ##Vote: Geript This shit for realz now huh | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:40 WaveofShadow wrote: /confirm I thought we had to wait until 20:00 but I guess since others are posting... I'm completely against RNG lynch I'd much rather to lurker if possible if we need a Day 1 strategy. Mocsta I saw in a game you were recently in (i'm kinda busy to check right now) someone suggested RNG lynch and everyone immediately dumped all over him for scum. Why should this game be any different? Excellent question no talking about current games sorry so I will take a hypothetical situation we in a game, and halfway through Day 1, someone randomly says lets RNG, and hey lets nominate guy #10 Conveniently this guy, doesnt include himself in the RNG count either... its just weird overall. What I am proposing is nothing like that #1 - I am more than willing to be lynched if selected by RNG #2 - If RNG'd I will do scum hunt the best I can, to leave town in as good a situation as I can #3 - I been talking about RNG pre-game so its not suspicious (like the last game) my motive for this is clear and transparant. If you want me to produce a revised case for RNG, i shall oblige | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:43 warbaby wrote: /confirm I'd like to post basically the same thing I did at the beginning of NMM 36. Hopefully these simple points will help create a constructive town atmosphere.
I failed on the last 2 points in NMM 36, so I'm going to try to improve in that regard. I also will be more busy with work than I was during NMM 36, so I may not be posting as often (I'll try to make up for this by making higher quality posts). GLHF everyone  P.S. Voting me for being terrible is clearly a great strategy. Waka waka! Thats fuckn scummy as clone. You want to post the same thing as another game when you were TOWN. I did the same thing when I was scum you know.. you really are copying me arent you. ##Unvote ##Vote:Warbaby you know geript, you really were onto something here | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:51 geript wrote: Mocsta: four people one way or another have responded in the negatory to RNG vote. That in the least is enough to negate the usefulness of RNG vote. Please cease your discussion of RNG as it is more likely to be a waste of time (both posting and rereading) at this point. Did not realise 4 people represented a majority in this game. Why dont you give others a chance to post their own thoughts instead of trying to forcefully influence them before they have spoken. Are you trying for a dictatorship here or something? | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:43 warbaby wrote:
Agreed, no lurky lurk. When appropriate is very loose wording, setting you up to change your agenda as you see fit. My thoughts are: Im going to lynch my best scum read. If scum reads are ambiguous and cases are grasping at straws, I will RNG out of the pool of lurkers (no pun on RNG intended,m ore so how do you chose between 3 or 4 ppl with 1 post) Post consolidation definitely important. No need to hear every thought. But this is no excuse for lurking either. Will try my best. But do I really have to tolerate idiotic play. But yes. OMGUS is terrible and often scum motivation. Theres a difference between OMGUS and making a well-reasoned counter-case. | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:58 geript wrote: @Mcosta please reread my post. I did not say it was a majority at all, just that it was enough to negate any perceived value of RNG. Dont be coy. It was clear what you were subtley inferring. If you dont like the RNG fine. Believe it or not, I dont have a problem with that. But what I would like is a rational, well-reasoned answer to why not. Thus far, the only people that have done that, are guys pre-game NOT EVEN IN THE GAME. How do you plan to build a case on scum, if you can't even succintly manifest your thoughts on RNG. No one is attacking the arguments for RNG. They are saying.. yucky I dont like that. Is this the level of gameplay we are to expect in this newbie? If so, that is precisely WHY RNG is required. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:02 cDgCorazon wrote: Please don't make that an issue unless it's a real problem. Actually considering your last game, I think he is right to point this out. It was very off-putting to say the least. Your on watch. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:03 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm hoping you're still going to adhere to this Moc. Why is that? Are you scared im gonna find all the scum Corazon, including you? Any-who; did you see me leading questions everywhere? No. I stand by not trying to be the string puller this game. Other people need a chance to shine. Im just here to give them a hard time Btw, i dont think me pushign for RNG has anythign to do with trying to mayor. Its a concept I believed in prior to this game starting, and so far, no one has quashed that belief by proper debate. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:05 warbaby wrote: Seconded. If we were going to do RNG we had negotiate it pre-game (to avoid scums manipulating it). We failed. There's no way I can agree to RNG now. I can accept that as a valid argument. If I was to contest it would be that, all points were raised in entirety pre-game. (i.e. cause / implementation / outcome / maintaining discussions) That people did no comment then, and choose to now; is certainly not indicative of being scum. It is indicative of being interested in current matters to town. I would consider that alignment null, but at least its helping to differentiate actives from lurkers. Thats a pro in itself. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:16 Sn0_Man wrote: In other news, RNG lynch is still retarded and thankfully everybody with a brain has said no to it. I'd prefer if we avoided discussing it further. This is precisely the type of retarded arguments Im talking about reducing. What.. because you say it is retarded, it is now case closed. Is this how you plan to build cases Sn0_Man, if so, why is there any value for town keeping you here? Im suggesting an open forum of communication; which appears at first read, 180 degrees from your suggestion. Mocsta: I certainly hope you can bring yourself to post differently from last newb game you were in. You are not off on the right foot. Side-note: Misspelling and attempts to impress with words that you don't actually understand don't earn brownie points, although I'll have to admit they are hardly scumtells. + Show Spoiler [bad english] + On February 11 2013 10:02 Mocsta wrote: How do you plan to build a case on scum, if you can't even succintly manifest your thoughts on RNG. Lets see succintly: "with concise and precise brevity; to the point; "Please state your case as succinctly as possible"; "he wrote compactly.." manifest: "Display or show (a quality or feeling) by one's acts or appearance; demonstrate: "manifest signs of depression"" I dont see any problems with my English above. I am not sure if English is your first language, so I will not treat this as an attempt by scum to mock me publicly. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:18 cDgCorazon wrote: And calling me scum is a really stupid thing to say 30 minutes into a game. I'm assuming you are going to give me reasons why I am scum based off of my 4 posts? Its just banter, you know how it goes. I do think your behaviour last game was the antithesis of pro-town. If you did it two games in a row, I would consider it scummy motives. For now yes its just banter. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:16 cDgCorazon wrote: I do believe pushing for RNG is being "Mayor-like". It's pushing for a move that affects the whole town. Noted. I didn't think of it like that. I was excited by the concept. But you are right; it is being like mayor. Look, the idea is out there, if people ask me questions I will respond about it; otherwise, will stop actively pursuing it. Hopefully someone else cares enough to carry the torch. Fine then Mocsta, why should we let RNG decide who should be lynched? Why can't we put enough faith in our own abilities to find scum? I love having confidence in my scum hunting abilities. The track record speaks for itself. (not good) I am not sure if anyone here has a track record of successfully nailing scum without mislynches. There is nothing wrong with confidence, but please note the Krueger effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect RNG is an easy to implement deterrent to this. Only scum would still be ok with this policy because they are not forced to scumhunt, only jump on the RNG idea and hope that they don't get selected (which is a low chance mathematically). Are you calling me scum? May I remind you: On February 11 2013 10:18 cDgCorazon wrote: And calling me scum is a really stupid thing to say 30 minutes into a game. I'm assuming you are going to give me reasons why I am scum based off of my 4 posts? Fact is, if a guy comes into the came with no posts 50% through Day1, and suggests RNG yeah I think its suspicious. But ask yourself this, have I not been transparent with my intentions? Ask yourself this; if I was scum and received the backlash I got pre-game, do you honestly think I would continue this pursuit. This isn't my first time playing this game. I know that there are going to be a few people lurking D1, and I have faith that at least one of the will be scum. It would be a lot more prudent to try those odds instead of RNG-ing it. Im not against this at all. Scum hunting doesnt have to be one-dimensional. Town can use multiple methods of attack to provoke scum into giving themselves up. Lighting fires under lurkers, is but one method of attack. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:24 cDgCorazon wrote: Try not to be so offensive Mocsta... "succinctly" is not a word in the English language. And South Africa was colonized by the British for a long time so I'm pretty sure English is his first language... http://www.thefreedictionary.com/succinctly succintly is an adverb seriously does this actually need to be discussed.. its Off-Topic as far as I am concerned, and surprised it is even an issue. its the internet, and people type short-hand all the time. That you are choosing to continue this discussion is odd; this is the last I have to say on the matter. | ||
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As for openly aggressive, I find this ironic when you idea of a debate is saying "thats retarded, no". As I said before, if that is how you intend to scum hunt; why are you of value to town? The point of this game is to take a logical approach; removed of fallacy. What you are promoting is shifting away from that. Perhaps I am taking it personal, which you are reading as dominating; but as I have said, I dont have a problem if you/anyone are/is against RNG. However at least have the courtesy to outline a genuine reason that clearly indicates you have put thought into it. Instead, what you have done is immediately rubbish my idea (with no merit), and then belittle me (on inconsequential technicalities; of course I am going to stand up for myself. | ||
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On February 11 2013 10:40 cDgCorazon wrote: I agree with this 100%. You were giving us all of this stuff pre-game about how you weren't gonna be town mayor, yet you are starting to create a hostile environment and trying to direct the discussion and the town action right off the get-go. Which Mocsta are you going to give us this game? The one you promised in pre-game or the one that you have shown in every game of NMM you have played? (Is there any other side of you to begin with?) Dude I already said above I recognise what you were saying with RNG/mayor, and stepping away from it Also, as I said in my last post to Sn0_Man (maybe written after you wrote this) I am not going to let a guy come in here, and just rubbish my idea by stating its retarded. That is not how to play the game, and is certainly not conducive to a friendly environment. I believe I am advocating an open discussion; then look at what he is advocating. Just because you have the same opinion, does not make his approach beneficial to town. So yes, I agree my tone is sharp; but its hard to not be, when I receive responses like this. It is completely one-way. e.g. lets say you have a scum read on him. are you telling me, its acceptable for him to dismiss your case by saying 'no, thats retarded". Knowing your play corazon, I expect you to think this is indeed not good enough. | ||
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But I did have a problem with him flaming me due to grammar. If he did not understand the sentence, due to the incorrect usage of verbs whatever, than ask for clarification. I dont believe he asked for clarificaiton, which logically means it was an attempt to publicly mock me - why else bring attention to this. And I do not see how that really offers any benefit to Day 1 discussions. So based on the "cheap-shot" flaming, would have probably carried a similar sentiment. | ||
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##Unvote Might need more people online first though. | ||
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Please clarify | ||
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Warbaby raised some questions for discussion. I already answered them,b ut you are more than welcome to have a go, might stimulate further points. | ||
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On February 11 2013 11:35 WaveofShadow wrote: You talk a lot, and it's not always useful. Clarified. Going to go eat and study. Will check on the thread every so often but I'm not expecting much activity for a while. KK I get the message I am not wanted. Enough people have said the same thing. Fine, will abide by my "caveat" See you guys in 12 hours. | ||
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On February 11 2013 12:46 geript wrote: I mean that the general concept of it: make the town better by removing the person(s) with the least qualitative additions. We are either removing detractors (thus net gain) or removing scum (actual gain). ## change vote unvote Geript, sorry to pipe in, but I need to know if you just musing or being serious with intention. I can not agree with always removing "detractors" This game usually comes down to a choice between two guys: one is scum, one is bad town. scum is making an effort to blend in, and using your criteria, we may be lynching bad town every time. The net effect = Town Loss. If I may paraphrase, I see nothing wrong with hunting lurkers, as yes, typically scum do reside there. However, when it comes to vote time, it must always be for the person we think has the HIGHEST chance to flip scum. That does not necessarily imply "least qualitative additions" Back to active lurking | ||
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if I may come out of hibernation. Thanks for the updated summary list. So far, you are the guy I dont like the most and I am going to outline the reasons below. #1 - In your entry you specified its direct from your last town game (i.e. soft claim for town) If you want to re-use ice-breakers, do it... why specify its from your town game #2 - Summary lists are an easy way to contribute, without contributing All of us can easily do a filter click, off page1 + its pretty obvious we going through a USA/Europe vs Oceania shift #3 - You even make comments alluding you to your "good ideas = town play" concept from your last game Why are you trying SO SO hard to associate your self with being town? The above is not worthy of a vote (yet), but I would appreciate your feedback to the above. | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:22 geript wrote: I would argue that removing room to hide is important as it forces scum to constantly be better than the guy in last place. If scum can in fact beat the curve so to speak, then it's the bottom end's fault for not making their role/side clear. I wouldn't blame to top end for voting out scummiest/least town-like in that case. I would argue least qualitative = least town-like; note that's qualitative not quantitative. Bare minimum does not automatically equal least qualitative. Matey, I have personally led several lynches against bad townies. I dunno what your playing history is, but will assume this is the first game. Its really hard to tell the difference between bad townie & scum when you are confirmation biased. Fact is, its night to sit on the high chair and blame the bad townie.. but really, we have to (at least partially) blame the lynch pusher, as quite often after a mislynch, you re-review the case material and go.. why the hell did i think this... we have to be accountable for our actions; to me, that is a major constituent of high-level scum hunting. | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:28 cDgCorazon wrote: So you are more likely to lean towards a "Lynch All Lurkers" position for D1? If that is the case, I kind of disagree with this way of thinking. I think we should vote for the player who acts the scummiest. This sums up my feelings about D1 lynches very well. I also like the soft town claim (I bolded it). Lol.. nice pick up on the soft claim; phrased quite odd as well. Im not sure what to make of it, but it is not written naturally. as for glurio, yes process is right in my opinion. Ironically, I think glurio is one of those guys who easily falls under the "lurker' category (at least based on his past 2 games). Hopefully this game he picks up the activity - it is not the weekend after all !! | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:37 WaveofShadow wrote: Also regarding the soft claim (I feel I should address it) wouldn't I say the same thing if I were scum? Sorry, but, I cant even begin to fathom what you are implying with this? Please clarify, as it reads very WIFOM to me. | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:41 warbaby wrote: So you have a problem with me claiming that I'm being pro-town? You clearly did not read the post-game analysis in '36. Claiming town is not a scummy thing to do. Would you prefer I claim scum? That's not possible since it would be suiciding as town (which is against town wincon) and suiciding as scum (which is against scum wincon). I'm not trying to trick you into thinking I'm town. I had to defend myself against these ridiculous claims in '36, until I was finally mislynched for it. Unlike you, I am not beating around the bush and posting a bunch of crap about RNG and whining about other people's efforts to promote a useful town environment. I'm listing lurkers because Corazon did it D1 in '36 and it was helpful. Corazon was town in '36 and so am I, right now, in '37. Do you want me to think you are smart or dumb? Do you want me to treat you as smart or dumb? I wont insult you, I assume the answer to both is smart Thus, an intelligent person is WELL-AWARE of their meta, and is WELL-AWARE of actions deemed pro-town in their town games. This is how I will choose to think/treat you. Therefore, you saying, "town people did it last game"; if anything gives more credence towards suggesting it is scum motivated play. If I decide to do an ice-breaker, its because I am trying to stimulate discussion or aid town. Not because I want to gain town cred to be perceived as pro-town. And yes, claiming town is not a scummy thing to do.. Its about HOW you do it. And your method is what I deem subtle and almost subliminal. warbaby, perhaps I am over-reading things; but when I last played scum, I did a very similar tact to yourself. Hence, I am a bit more aware of the cues to look out for. The only tool I have to determine whether your motives are genuine/intentional is to call you out as I did. (aka. scum hunting) Will let you know what I think, as you present more posts for me to digest. | ||
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On February 11 2013 13:54 warbaby wrote: My posts so far have either been suggesting ways town can play better (my first post) or helping town keep track of who's posted, and who hasn't. Action: "Suggest ways town can play better" Tell: "Null" Action: "summary list of postings" Tell: "Null" Think long and hard before responding, if you want to counter and say that those actions are indeed pro-town. Anyone can do those actions; it comes down to whether genuinely trying to create a solid atmosphere; or trying to score easy town cred. That you want to cease discourse when we are finally getting somewhere, is disconcerting to say the least. The ball is in your court on how to proceed. | ||
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On February 11 2013 14:01 warbaby wrote: I won't claim my actual role right now (just that my alignment is not mafia rofl), but if we get to a point later (d2+) where others are considering claiming, I will not hesitate this time. Since we mass claiming alignment. My alignment is not mafia either rofl; is this what you meant by effective scum hunting? I thought you said you were going to take a break from posting anyways.... | ||
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I have no idea why he has made the references he did; its just odd play in general. I think the easiest approach is to, wait for warbaby explanation to corazon's valid points; and adjust pressure as necessary. I believe it is still bedtime for him; so hopefully some of the other inactives start contributing | ||
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I know u want revenge for me. But spending time trying to kick a guy when he is on the floor. I.e. prove something is dead when it is indeed dead.... reads to me as trying to contribute without contributing. Since u talking about lurkers. Can i assume ur in luv with geript? | ||
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On February 11 2013 20:45 warbaby wrote: How can I forget about my mislynch in 36 when within ten minutes of this game starting two people vote me for the same bullshit reasons I was miskynched for in 36? You guys are repeating your mistakes from 36, plain and simple. Maybe you're bad at mafia, and you're jealous that I actually tried to make contributions that could help town, instead of waving my dick around. I honestly don't give a shit anymore. Go ahead and mislynch me, so I can make fun of you all (again) in the obs qt. Maybe I'll even be named town MVP again (it's not hard with competition like this). I waited 8 hours for THAT... ##vote: warbaby I never seen a town player defend themselves so meekly early game.it shows complete lack of care. Logicial deduction. U must be scum. good find corazon. Perhaps i wad wrong with RNG | ||
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Way to go just calling everyone dumb. And u think u were a proponent of a pro-town friendly atmosphere. Ur last 3 posts are anything but that. Just cos u scum doesnt mean u have to be out of line like this.. Seriously. Esp when u called out corazon for this behaviour earlier. | ||
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On February 11 2013 20:59 warbaby wrote: I was trying to get Mocsta to shut up because he's an idiot and bad at this game (look at his play in the non-newbie games, it's atrocious and people have called him out for it). Firstly. U obviously have not read the games. What u say is simply not true. Secondly it is against rules to discuss ongoing games. Pls dont reference me in live games again.. | ||
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I already explained why ur tells u think are pro town. Are actually null. Then u follow up by being derogatory towards everyone. Then Instead of attacking the case against u.. U go ad hominem by saying they have small minds... Seriously warbaby not impressed. My vote remains with this defense. Again ur not living up to what u promised. | ||
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That is even worse than. By day1 i was essentially a confirmed town for the majority of players. This was proven by ppl posting their reads.. I was also onto the last remaining scum from day dot and was close to getting him to concede. If u gonna pretend to read a game. At least do it properly. | ||
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In short:
As I said prior, I have not seen a townie defend himself in the manner you have chosen, in particular for Day1 where the most uncertainty resides. This is exacerbated by your claims of being MVP. Let us quickly go over your derogatory and ad-hominem comments one more time, because regardless of alignment I find it inexcusable. On February 11 2013 20:45 warbaby wrote: I honestly don't give a shit anymore. Go ahead and mislynch me, so I can make fun of you all (again) in the obs qt. Maybe I'll even be named town MVP again (it's not hard with competition like this). On February 11 2013 20:57 warbaby wrote: Are you fucking dense? ..... You must be fucking dense. On February 11 2013 20:59 warbaby wrote: I was trying to get Mocsta to shut up because he's an idiot and bad at this game On February 11 2013 21:31 warbaby wrote: I'm being condescending because it's mind boggling that people like Corazon would make the same mistake two games in a row. Just remember what I said to you before you went ad-hominem on me, and called me an idiot. On February 11 2013 13:50 Mocsta wrote: .... Thus, an intelligent person is WELL-AWARE of their meta, and is WELL-AWARE of actions deemed pro-town in their town games. This is how I will choose to think/treat you. Therefore, you saying, "town people did it last game"; if anything gives more credence towards suggesting it is scum motivated play. If I decide to do an ice-breaker, its because I am trying to stimulate discussion or aid town. Not because I want to gain town cred to be perceived as pro-town..... Your approach to me can be summed up by this quote. On February 11 2013 21:22 warbaby wrote: It pisses me off after I got named town MVP in my last game, I try to repeat my playstyle in the next game (in order to be useful to town!) and I get shit all over for it. I conclude with this reminder On February 11 2013 20:57 Mocsta wrote: I waited 8 hours for THAT... ##vote: warbaby I never seen a town player defend themselves so meekly early game.it shows complete lack of care. Logicial deduction. U must be scum. good find corazon. Perhaps i wad wrong with RNG | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:33 glurio wrote: Posting a shitload of fluff, useless RNG and grammatics discussion isn't pro-town behaviour Mocsta. Then hopping on the easy lynch wagon after warbaby made those terrible posts? Let's start with that and don't post endlessly. While i agree with everyone that warbabys posts have been really horrible he basically did everything he shouldn't do (soft-blue claim, getting overly emotional, giving up, citing countless times hes town), i think we should really step back and take a look at the whole picture. (2) I think he would be much more cautious with his posts if he actually was scum. (1) I'd like everyone to look at mocstas filter. Does he do anything to seriously scumhunt? He asks questions in every direction, has people on his "watch" but this is the same as NMM XXXV, where he was infact the mafia gf. He picks the easiest target and highlights everything everyone already read. Sn0 didn't add anything useful with his arguably limited posting time, only talk about RNG and english grammatics. Useless but i'm sure he'll pick it up. Glurio, (1) why are you asking others to look into my filter? Heres a suggestion, if you dont like my play; look into my filter and fire away your concerns. I will be here for prob the next hour, so your welcome to talk to me whilst I am here (2) I was considering the "cautious" line of thought as well. But I dunno; when I was scum in NMM XXXV i was posting off-the-cuff and recklessly, and with high emotion. i think either alignment is capable of acting that way, so the high emotion is null. Its more to do with why he became highly emotional, for me that is more so leaning scum than town. I think a town player is confident in their role PM and has no need to be this hysterical, derogatory or ad-hominem so early. P.S. This is not NMM XXXV; and regardless is being played out completely different to that game. That game my play focused on flaming, this game my play is focused on expounding logic and reasoning. P.P.S. Fact: I have rolled Link Hogthrob - but won't say what this role is That my role is a muppet already indicates the difference between this and NMM XXXV!! heheh | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:36 warbaby wrote: I'm not soft blue claiming, glurio. I'm hard alignment claiming, and reserving a role claim until it actually makes sense to do so. You understand the difference between alignment and role, right? I agree that there could be scummy motiviations in the ridiculous case against me, but I can't really pursue this avenue without being accused of OMGUS. [/B[] I encourage you and others to look at this more. Matey, Disagree fully with this sentiment. I am a large advocate of the counter case, and by all means do not classify it OMGUS. its all about delivery; OMGUS is basically "you voted me, which means YOU ARE SCUM" counter case is about either: (1) refuting the case against you with logic and rational thought AND (sometimes) (2) developing your own case against the attacker i.e. [B]On February 11 2013 09:55 Mocsta wrote: OMGUS is terrible and often scum motivation. Theres a difference between OMGUS and making a well-reasoned counter-case. | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:41 zarepath wrote: Yeah, this feels a lot like the last time we mislynched warbaby so far. I'm not saying there's nothing there, but it is very easy to rile this guy up and get confirmation bias. We still have a lot of Day 1 left and a lot of people to consider still, and I think that if warbaby's detractors are satisfied with the evidence in his defense, we should look at some other people and allow warbaby to take a step back himself and make some of his own reads. If by the end of the day, you still think warbaby is the scummiest, go ahead and make a case and vote for him. But let's proactively avoid tunnel visioning here. zarepath, I am happy to follow suit with this, I think it is a good idea. Why limit our selves to warbaby with 38hrs left on the clock. His filter comments are transparent enough; so may as well start pursuing the next scum read. Hopefully the USA shift (and remaining non-posters) pick up activity over the next 6-8 hours. | ||
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On February 11 2013 23:51 warbaby wrote: This is amusing coming from the guy making a bunch of hysterical wall of text posts, desperate to appear to be scum hunting. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but I call out stupid when I see it. This is confirmed by my meta (and the post-game analysis) in '36. Dude, i dunno why your harping on about NMM 36. This is 37, everything is reset. Stop resting on the laurels of being MVP in one of the shittiest newbie games in TL history *sorry for the harsh tone, but the game was terrible.. that is the truth, i am genuinely sorry if it hurts to hear* P.S. thanks, I find it interesting you now accuse me of not scum hunting. It does seem coincidental you make this comment, shortly after glurio said the same thing? If you feel truly feel this way, I suggest the same thing I did to Glurio, I am here for one hour. If you want to ask me questions, go ahead. I am all ears. | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:02 zarepath wrote: Mocsta, since you're here, I have a question for you. Of the following, how scummy do these people look to you, and can you rank them? geript, corazon, sn0_man, WaveofShadow, Mandalor, and glurio Thanks in advance. Sn0_man; Wave of Shadow; Glurio; Mandalor Geript; Corazon; basically, i want to see more from Sn0_Man the most. Sn0_Man Please share your thoughts on the warbaby case; are your for or against. zarepath, I showed you mine, can you show me yours | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:07 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm pretty sure I made myself clear: STOP TALKING ABOUT NMM 36. Your mislynch there does not make you an angel for this game. You're trying too hard to associate yourself with playing town and trying to exploit your mislynch last game to get easy town cred. It don't come easy, buddy... corazon, im kinda shocked he's still pushing MVP stuff so hard. Look we both played scum before, I am not sure if I would stick to my guns so hard under this type of pressure. Because you have been under the gun Day1 before; do you think you would have stuck to your story like warbaby has? Im asking because, I can see a townie in general sticking to his story if he truly thought it was an awesome idea (even if it was shit in the end.. e.g my RNG (which I still think is awesome lol)) | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:19 Sn0_Man wrote: Warbaby looks scummy, but I don't see how you lynch somebody this active day 1. Im asking for clarification here: Are you suggesting if warbaby is your strongest scum read, you will not vote him due to activity? Or am I misinterpreting? | ||
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We can discuss lynching a lurker vs scum read later in Day1. KK, lets move on. corazon, are you happy to move on, and try to get more information from the remaining players? i think the points you raise are valid, and have yet to see warbaby refute (maybe even acknowledge them); however, focusing on just warbaby for 35hrs may not be the best use of our time. | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:37 warbaby wrote: You're giving me a wake-up call? That's rich. I was just about to unvote... seriously. To everyone, except warbaby I am happy to continue scum hunting (and focus on others), but shit like the post above is why my vote will remain on warbaby, until a better alternative arises. He doesnt get a free pass; its just, there is no value grilling him for 30 hours. | ||
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On February 12 2013 00:42 Sevryn wrote: Hey guys Im currently getting caught up on today still have a couple of pages left but want to say I am against RNG lynches with RNG you wont see how someone will try to defend themselves when they get lynched so you get little to no information from the flip. This effectively gives scum a much easier second day if we lynch townies. I look forward to your contributions on meaningful things. Maybe because your not up to speed, but RNG is dead. Heres some prompters for discussions. I dont know you, but you have a decent post count. (1) Have you played forum mafia before? (2) Do you prefer (for lynch) warbaby or WaveofShadow or alternative? (3) Given a choice D1, between random lurker, or null read ; which would you choose (4) Given a choice D1, between random lurker, or scum read ; which would you choose Thank you | ||
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zarepath, I am not sure if the start of your post was addressed to me? If so, I had mandalor as null read; he said a few things but until he follows through its all NON-alignment indicative. btw, quite a few decent points in that case; I think some are educated assumptions, and others are really contradictory to ideal town play. Will wait and see what wave has to say for himself before proceeding further. | ||
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I will stay up for 5 min. Sorry what does that even mean? | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:00 warbaby wrote: I don't think you're helping town by posting like this, Mocsta. I honestly believe your case against me is bad, and I don't like how you're asking other people to tunnel on me. That's not constructive. We all know you have a problem with me. You don't need to spam up the thread asking other people to confirm your bias. Look, im not going to enter into these "flame" games with you. It is now pretty clear you are relying to baiting emotional responses from anyone that does not like the smell of your shit. Sweet dreams back @ you. P.S. My issue is with your play; not you as a person. [fluff] I also don't think I am treating you in any way, shape or form as Acid did in NMM XXXVI. Please don't take it personal, mafia is just a game in the end and should be fun to play. | ||
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Sno will answer your syl q then. And update my scum reads Guys im hesitant to spam walls of text. Do u want me to address geript case points? I am more than happy to. | ||
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Musing Overnight (trying out new communication method, I know its still large but I am trying short points to communicate many items….please give me feedback if this works better)
Warbaby basically follows who ever is giving him direction. Votes a lurker; then swaps to different lurkers etc. @warbaby: copying others blatantly is not helping you; I want to see some original thought from you, that is not based on the pre-tense of your last game. You can start by giving me your thoughts on Geript.
- Chainsaw Defense: When person A attacks person B; person C defends person B by attacking credibility/personality of Person A (instead of attacking the argument). It is considered on average to be a major scum tell (as it is the natural inclination of scum to protect their buddies) On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: I do think warbaby is town. On points 1 and 2: While this is a newbie game, I don't think that taking his townie claim or referencing 36 as anything other than a null read.. Geript claims warbaby as town; yet says the actions are null at best Wat the?!?!? He then proceeds to defend his “town” read, by diverting attention to the attacker (Mocsta) upon a foundation of OMGUS, character swipes and poor reasoning. Henceforth, the chainsaw defense criteria is satisfied. Ask yourself, if you didn’t like warbaby case I see three options of approach (1) Breakdown the case presented – and present flaws in logic (2) Query warbaby for more information – to devine his alignment (3) Attack the attacker Clearly, (3) is the scummiest action of those three. ##Vote: Geript
- Glurio makes a post asking everyone to look into my filter; but also hints towards grievance with Sn0 - Follows through with Sn0; as of yet, I haven’t had a chance to read it in depth; but from first read, I am confused by the logic deductions. @Glurio This game isn’t about making cases for the sake of making cases. I find it odd, you come into the game; call out two people and instead of pressuring them for alignment-indicative information; you outright make a case (and one that is hard to read at best; and poorly written intentionally at worst) With your track record, I want to treat this as bad townie. Your last town game, you lurked so hard, so with that meta, I am treating this “increase in effort” as a town attempt – for now.
-I don’t think guys like 9-bit posts over night. This is a major problem, 24hrs and no post? -Then guys like Sylencia have still not offered anything other than irrelevant RNG discussion; or summary information. Sn0_Man wanted my thoughts on scum Sylencia. Simple: Blendy as… just sits in the middle and says what you want to hear. -Mandalor is interesting; starts off with lurking pushing. Which to me is NOT alignment indicative. Posts some statistics, which might be good for him to circle-jerk over, but again, doesn’t help town scum hunt; it just gives him purpose to pursue the lynch all lurkers. Pretty selfish play so far. I think there is much better reads out there, but have it on note to check in on him from time to time.
- Guy effectively says, great posts I am going to struggle to refute…
Whats important to me, is that on Day1 (post 24hrs) there are two guys that majorly fucked up. (warbaby and WoS) The question comes down to: are they both bad townie; are they both bad scum; or is one bad townie, one bad scum. Look at the approach warbaby Does not address case criteria Incites emotional arguments Continues to flame people, even when they agree to back off Just blindly follows others, once the heat is off. WaveofShadow Attempts to address case criteria Blindly follows others (voting lurkers) Puts some analysis into Glurio post The key differentiator is that WoS admits the situation outright, and has tried to still contribute (some parts blind following, other parts on his own accord). Im reading WoS as pretty genuine right now; and am willing to put him at this stage as “bad townie” Warbaby simply has done nothing to establish his innocence all game; My analysis and my gut is still telling me “first time scum”. + Show Spoiler [Breakdown of Geript case on Mocsta] + On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: My concern would moreso be Mocsta. 1. He seems unconcerned as to who to throw towards the vote While some may read it as him aggressively trying to test the town, I read his posts and various switches and tests as just trying to see where he can gain traction. As well, he jumps on the first person having any real traction. 2. He doesn't even read his own posts First, he calls Warbaby's generic opening scummy when it's null at best. Next he tacks on his own important notes, and finally he calls Warbaby's initial post null. 3. He has diarrhea of the keyboard #1 – Disagree. My discussions have been transparent, and I have been more than clear about my read and follow up pressure on warbaby. Secondly, I have been actively trying to review information from both sides of the fence to remove confirmation bias. If anything, that is a sign of a guy who “actually cares” about who he votes. #2 – I called warbabys posts null; I am starting to think it is you who is not reading MY posts. On February 11 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote: Action: "Suggest ways town can play better" Tell: "Null" Action: "summary list of postings" Tell: "Null" Think long and hard before responding, if you want to counter and say that those actions are indeed pro-town. Anyone can do those actions; it comes down to whether genuinely trying to create a solid atmosphere; or trying to score easy town cred. That you want to cease discourse when we are finally getting somewhere, is disconcerting to say the least. The ball is in your court on how to proceed. #3 – Nice personal attack there On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: Additionally, he brings ups the post consolidation point which he actively avoids. I haven’t been sharing every thought. People were engaging me for discussion. On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: Here he's accusing me, in effect, of running for mayor all while pushing his RNG agenda heavily. No, A mayor is a person who tries to coordinate town efforts. I am implying you think you speak for the town and do not bother to consult them. On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: Blames warbaby for coming back to post 2 times after 'taking a break' when Mocsta has posted 8. At best, all this comes off as unintentional bad play. At worst it's an overexcited scum player. I find the latter more believable and either way I feel better about lynching him currently than lynching a lurker. I have not witnessed one point in your “case” that indicates bad play, let alone scum play. I finish with how I started. This post reeks of chainsaw defense to protect warbaby, and is scummy as. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Geript | ||
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On February 12 2013 10:28 warbaby wrote:Mocsta, I've already commented on the noises people are making about your play. I don't think they make enough sense to call you scummy, yet. Either you think I'm scum, think I am null, or think I am town. The "scummy, yet" indicates you think I lean towards scum, or at the very least highly suspicious. Hence, again, I see no reason why you are pointing this out as if you are "buddying" me and sticking up for me.Me vs WaveofShadow is a false dichotomy, Mocsta. What about sylencia? He could easily be a scum trying to blend in. Why is you/wave false dichotomy? Both of you majorly fucked up in my opinion; but took quite different approaches in handling the situation? Are you suggesting there is no dichotomy; if so, my only thought is that you think you have both walked the same path?As for Sylencia, yes he is blendy as, and... so far his post contribution is alignment null to me. Im not voting for a guy D1 based on that filter. If you want to pressure him, be my guest, but my sights are on Geript currently. I can't seriously vote WaveofShadow when there are other people who have made very small contributions. I'm not commenting on the case against me any more at this point, except to maintain that I think it's fairly ridiculous. I am not against waiting for everyone to input, before making jumping to a conclusion on scum read.But what you have written reads to me as: I will not pursue my scum read; as I am choosing to follow-up on a lurker. Either way, I asked for your opinions on Geript. Are you planning to share? | ||
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On February 12 2013 10:29 warbaby wrote: Also Mocsta, I don't think geript is using a chainsaw defense for me, I think he's just trying to make a case against you. Your association here is pretty shaky, although not entirely unfounded. warbaby, is there a point to this post? let us summarise - its not chainsaw defense - he makes case against you - your association is shaky (weak) - you association is not unfounded (link exists) All I am reading is a conflicting, wishy-washy stance: either, Geript made a chainsaw or he didnt. Why are you giving yourself a backdoor to change your stance as required? | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:18 WaveofShadow wrote: Note that I'm pressuring you because I want to see something positive come out of you; I'm inclined to agree with Mocsta's analysis of bad town. Stop focusing on defending yourself because you only make yourself look worse. *Coming out of hibernation* I said you (WoS) were bad town in my opinion. That warbaby is continually swapping wagons, and attempts to continually share opinions which are actually "in the middle" and say nothing; reeks to me more of a scum trying to contribute but not knowing how to do it. If he wanted to be "pro-town" or even just town; He had a golden opportunity to provide a read on Geript.. instead.. he says "he didnt chainsaw" - using wishy-washy reasoning & "he has only been here 24hrs, so i dont have an opinion" - yet he wants to hunt Sylencia?!?!? if you think that the actions above are that of a "bad townie", I am willing to here out your reasons *back to active lurking* | ||
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On February 12 2013 11:40 geript wrote: All three cases have a problem with me having a town read on Warbaby. So what? The worst thing that I read from him is: Which reads to me as, "Don't look at me." In context, I think it's more of a wanting to catch his breath between arguments. If you want to make a case against Warbaby, then do that. Not sure the point of this? Corazon made the case; and I have re-enforced the case by pressuring warbaby. Not sure if you realise, but cases are not required to point out scummy behaviour. Cases are required to persuade town to VOTE with you. My question to you is why are you guys so interested in having me waste time talking about a town read rather than actually going back and evaluating who is likely scum? On the chainsaw defense: If you read my post on 24: + Show Spoiler + On February 12 2013 01:11 geript wrote: I do think warbaby is town. On points 1 and 2: While this is a newbie game, I don't think that taking his townie claim or referencing 36 as anything other than a null read. Sorry, but I'm not seeing the point you're making in 4 either. As I read: more as trying to get the town as a whole involved rather than have Mcosta posting incessantly as he has been. While I agree on point 3, that warbaby hasn't really partaken in scum hunting, I don't think that this is a good measure of town v scum 6 hours into D1. To be honest, your case feels more like a gag. My concern would moreso be Mocsta. 1. He seems unconcerned as to who to throw towards the vote While some may read it as him aggressively trying to test the town, I read his posts and various switches and tests as just trying to see where he can gain traction. As well, he jumps on the first person having any real traction. 2. He doesn't even read his own posts First, he calls Warbaby's generic opening scummy when it's null at best. Next he tacks on his own important notes, and finally he calls Warbaby's initial post null. 3. He has diarrhea of the keyboard Additionally, he brings ups the post consolidation point which he actively avoids. Here he's accusing me, in effect, of running for mayor all while pushing his RNG agenda heavily. Blames warbaby for coming back to post 2 times after 'taking a break' when Mocsta has posted 8. At best, all this comes off as unintentional bad play. At worst it's an overexcited scum player. I find the latter more believable and either way I feel better about lynching him currently than lynching a lurker. in light of Cora's post on 21 + Show Spoiler + On February 11 2013 14:46 cDgCorazon wrote: ##Vote: Warbaby Congratulations WB, it's been 5 hours and I already think you are scum. I'm going to break this down into a few points: 1. Your "I'm not Mafia rofl" claim. The biggest problem is that you have claimed town within the first 4 hours. You not only claimed town, but you're basically waving a giant sign that says "HEY LOOK EVERYONE, I'M TOWN". The nature of your claim is ridiculous, almost too much. Examples: You're coming on way too strong with this claim for me to believe it. 2. Continuing to play the victim from the mislynch in NMM 36. Examples: It's another part in trying to associate yourself too hard with being townie. You need to get it through your head that this isn't XXXVI anymore. We're all sorry for the mislynch last game, but you need to come in here and forget about it. It's a whole different game with different players. Stop trying to stay in the past. 3. Your lack of scumhunting. Goes without saying, you've done none of it yet. All the jabs you made at Mocsta have been points that myself and other people have discussed to death already. Bring something new to the table. 4. Trying to change the subject when the pressure is on you. This is the scummiest part. If you are town, you should be trying to prove that your claim is true, and not kill discussion right when it starts to pick up. For these reasons, you are getting my vote for the time being. If you are really town, you should have no trouble proving your innocence. Then you'll see that I address his points as he presented them. I didn't claim warbaby as town; I stated I think he's town. There's a big difference between the two. Yes, I understand thinking/claiming is different; but that is not the point. Lets say you “thought” warbaby was town; the method you employed to defend his “honour” was still the scummiest action of the 3 options I presented. On February 12 2013 09:57 Mocsta wrote: Ask yourself, if you didn’t like warbaby case I see three options of approach (1) Breakdown the case presented – and present flaws in logic (2) Query warbaby for more information – to devine his alignment (3) Attack the attacker Clearly, (3) is the scummiest action of those three. Further to this; scum are the ones constantly proof-checking posts etc; claiming he is town is a pretty stupid scum slip. I don’t want to treat you as stupid; so I choose not to consider this point as a valid counter Hence, it has not been disputed why this is not a chainsaw defense.. As for attacking you, if you call me saying you have taken a wet watery crap all over your filter attacking you, then I'm guilty. But hey, I'm not the only person who's "attacked" you by commenting on your style. Wow; this is quite lame logic. I didn’t realise, others agreeing with you, made the argument reasonable. http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon There is a clear contrast behind how I am presenting my reads; and how you are. I am transparent in my thought process; and have been responding to peoples arguments with clearly laid out logic. You on the other hand, continue to make swipes; do not actually refute the argument; and then rely on the opinion of others as your justification. And with your wall of text; I still have not seen anything to dispute the chainsaw defense claim. As for Cora's problem with me throwing jabs, he's wrong. I work best as part of group think being able to bounce ideas off of people. I enjoy figuring out the positioning and the setup far more than the finish; plus it's what I'm good at. If you don't like it, then either deal with it (as you do with Mocsta and his 'style') or vote me off the island. Is this your plea? That you are a team player; that you enjoy setup speculation; and that you do not enjoy “the finish”. If this was a job interview, do you think you would get the job with that? Let me give you a real-world translation: I like working in teams because I can focus on the unimportant things I like; and allow others to do the leg work. Further, I get bored easily, and will start to drop in participation and contribution. Let me give you a forum-mafia translation: I like blending in by working in teams and focusing on setup speculation. As the game progresses I will feign being a bored player as a reason to explain my drop in contributions. i.e. I AM SCUM On February 12 2013 10:07 Mocsta wrote: ##Vote: Geript | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:12 warbaby wrote: You think I'm scum because I want to lynch the worst lurkers (sylencia, sevryn)? Matey, please explain why they are the worst-two lurkers. To me they are all shit. + what about guys like 9-bit & macheji; why are you ignoring them in your campaign? | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:17 warbaby wrote: 9bit and macheji have 0 posts and will be replaced. No point lynching them OK. I will just say this: I think that is a silly reason; ppl present these arguments all the time, and its very rare they do just drop out. Look at Acid in NMM XXXV; had 0 posts, people present the modkill argument, and then he came in with a bang. If your going to push lurkers; push them all please; otherwise I want genuine reasons why you are giving preferential treatment. | ||
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Im not sure why you are calling this out as a lie? seems pretty desperate to me. | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:38 warbaby wrote: No, they are not the same. I am forming opinions, which will later become strong opinions as the game develops. You read my post, and then claimed I said something different. Therefore you lied about what I said. I'm only saying you lied, not that you're scum. I think you're probably just impulsive, you simply have confirmation bias for me, so you twisted my words in your own mind, which isn't necessarily scummy (potentially just suboptimal town play). This is an argument about matter of perspective, I dont think either is objectively wrong so bin it pls. If you want my perspective it is as I said. If you dont have an opinion you can share; then there is no opinion. Saying you are forming means nothing; that is something we all are doing with every post we read. In my head, i did no lie OR misrepresent your post. | ||
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On February 12 2013 14:25 Sn0_Man wrote: on phone sorry for typo but i think this is important enough..I'm saying you are pressuring him for something, so when he tries to fix that by doing the opposite you pressure him for that thing instead. It smacks of last game really. I'm not saying he isn't scummy (again, much like last game). I legitimately am OK with day-1 mislynches. They generate lots of information and are a tool town can use to cull the useless members. Addition by subtraction and all that. Sure, I'd *love* to hit scum day 1 but sometimes I feel like removing active voices from the game just makes it easier for scum to glide like last game where Slay/Glurio posted essentially nothing and got away freely while cases were thrown at everybody who dared open their mouth and actually post a semi-intelligent thought. The fact that our blue roles bailed us out last game doesn't mean that the town atmosphere wasn't very scum-favoured for quite a while. I'm not sure the risk of trying to hit scum by lynching contributors is worth it if the downside is basically silencing town if we are wrong. Establishing the expectation that posting content on a decently regular basis is required to avoid getting lynched goes a long way towards making scum slip. I mean, you played scum, you know how attractive it must be to just glide if town is actively trying to silence all the loud voices... If i may step in. Both of u raise fair points. Sno it does read u are not giving full consideration to warbaby. Cora u approach warbaby as damned if u do. Damned if u dont. Fact is we all want the same thing. Scum lynch day1 or infornation leading to scum lynch day2. Now sno where your argument above becomes unstuck is the assumption warbaby is active. Personally i dont think he is. Unless u measuring purely by filter size. If u gauge by quality of contributions.. I am sorry to say.. But there is not much more in there than the low post lurkers. Heck even sevryn had the balls to bust in over the top of you guys and give an opinion. Whether right or wrong is more than what warbaby has done. Also whilst warbaby has calmed down somewhat i am still finding him over emotional. lastly. Sno. Can i pls have thoughts on geript and the chainsaw defense. | ||
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policy talk is meant to be a tool for discussion. Not something that is followed through becauseu get no informaion. It like doing a night kill during the day. Meant to rely on scum hunting ....or RNG hehe | ||
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Yes i dont supporting policy lynch on lurker Evaluating day1 play is scum hunting too in my mind because its about discussng refinement AND is an opportuntiny for those less confident in making cases to chip in and start thinking logically. As long as evaluation doesnt stop pressure from occuring. Thumbs up from me | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:02 geript wrote: Considering your and Cora's attitudes, I don't think either of you believe that at all. Home now. Umm.. how about instead of making witty quips; you expound on what you think is the issue at hand. The attitude you are taking, serves nothing but to incite emotions. | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:03 Sn0_Man wrote: You came up with a hilarious association based OMGUS accusation because everybody who questions you is clearly scum in your eyes? Okay thats a bit harsh. You've shown real difference (IMO) in your play this game compared to 35. Still, the fact that your defense against geript is "you are attacking me to clear warbaby" is a thinner defense than WoS's "I'm so sorry plz don't lynch me" Defense. That said, his case isn't exactly damning... I still don't see it as a "chainsaw defence of a scumbuddy". I mean seriously, thats a very heavy association to make day-1. All he is saying is that you like to shit up the thread, which is true (improvement is noted). If you think Warbaby and geript are scumteam, and you are highly suspicious of WoS as well, I can almost guarantee you are wrong somewhere. There is always a lurker scum. You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. just keep in mind please; chainsaw defense doesnt apply to just defending scum buddy. its basically just attacking the someones attacker personally (instead of their argument). So can be applied to defending town. As I said before in that "Case": as town, would you defend someone Day1 with such a method? The only reason i can think of is if you were masoned with someone; hence KNEW they were town. There are simply better avenues to approach the situation. warbaby is a scum read of mine; yes so makes sense to say its association based. BUT, note, we can only vote one person. I think you will notice my vote is actually on geript because his actions have made him a stronger read. (its just I am continuing to pressure my other read warbaby) | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:21 WaveofShadow wrote: If he responds soon that would be nice as I'm going to bed soon, and have an insanely busy day tomorrow. I'll try to pop in intermittently but I'm not going to be nearly as active as I was today, just sayin'. Would also be nice if we heard from glurio, Sylencia, and maybe a little more outta Sevryn but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm 100% certain that of those three and the two no-shows at least one is mafia. Sarcasm not intended. If you have 2 guys who have 1 post to their name. Are you planning to RNG to determine who gets your vote? | ||
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On February 12 2013 15:53 geript wrote: Sure. I got back to rereading and still thought Cora and Mocsta are getting away with bs and stopped. I haven't gone back and reworked the read so it's staying there. Attitude I'm espousing? If you and Cora can't realize how you two have essentially been "My way or the highway" this whole game, then you have no idea how to promote healthy conversation. I'd even go so far as you're not even actually interested in having conversation period; my read of you is that you're more interested in having people reflect back to you what you're already saying in one term or another. IE: I'm happy to have people improve my cases but not anyone else's. But for me to start a case looking for help and feedback is a bad thing, but for you it's peachy keen. That's just a bunch of bung. I'll give you credit for both having an agenda to push, but I'm not sold that it's in the towns favor in the slightest. Quite frankly, I have no interest in playing with either of you again and am far more interested in being replaced than finishing this game out. I am genuinely sorry you feel that way; enough that you would consider replacing. Look, mafia isn't a game for everyone: some struggle with the reading commitments; others struggle with expressing themselves clearly. But don't worry, you have given the game a go, and by no means will I (and I hope others) look at this as you being a "sore loser". I ask that you take a step back and reconsider what you have said. If you are town, please take the opportunity to look at the feedback sent your way (through cases/posts) and build a rational and well-reasoned argument on why your interests were town aligned. Throwing emotional arguments; or weak straw-man accusations is not the way to proceed. If you are scum, well, ignore the above and please but don't leave, I would prefer you lynched than replaced !! | ||
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Some ideas you have represented above are cohesive and make sense. e.g. warbaby I can see as frustrated; rather than panicked. But, overall I see more flaws than gems in the logic above. The crux comes down to heuristics; I and I think you need to be more open to what plays are available. e.g. you say vig is a bad idea 8hrs in.. heck I just replaced in a game where the vigilante claimed within 6 hours and was ASKING town to essentially vote for who he should shoot at night. The other problem I see is the benefit of hindsight. Day1 reads change and evolve as new information is released. You have re-read the game (multiple times) , took into account information that came into light POST-EVENT, and are now querying people over why they made the decisions they did? Frankly, with the information we *had* I saw nothing wrong with Sylencia logic statement. Fact is, soft-claiming VT is always a stupid play. People are not going to trust you; and it gives mafia someone *NOT* to hit (if seeking blue roles). In poker terms, the pot odds arent worth calling. If you re-examine with the information *POST-EVENT*; i still see nothing wrong with the assumptions Sylencia took. VT is still a stupid play; and warbaby is a guy who doesnt want to be treated as stupid. So it means I rule this out of the equation. Lastly, I appreciate you opening my eyes to warbaby being frustrated vs panicking; but I am not sure what the point is. I have stated from the start, emotional play is NOT alignment-indicative; its what you do with the play. So yes, warbaby is frustrated (scum or town can be frustrated) but are you trying to tell me, warbaby has not gone out of his way to flame people in his filter? TL;DR I dont have a problem with Sylencia logic then, and I still dont. Claiming VT early is stupid, and creates less targets for scum to choose to eliminate blues. Hence, It really becomes: did he really soft-claim blue role; or did he make an all-in play based on his MVP last game. | ||
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I disagree and have already commented about this sylencia post to geript last page... Even before your post. Sylencia made an addendum detailing again the reasoning for why it is a soft blue claim. Frankly your post reads to me as if you didn't bother to read the thread. I know u say busy IRL., but we all have lives outside forum Mafia. That argument doesn't allow someone to lurk. Full stop So yes, if LAL is enforced I think u just became my recommendation. | ||
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On February 12 2013 22:42 zarepath wrote: I agree with Mandalor that people are making too big a deal of warbaby's roleclaim, which imo wasn't a roleclaim at all. I find it highly unlikely that warbaby would soft blue claim two games in a row, especially when the feedback from the last game was overwhelmingly "DON'T SOFT CLAIM, WARBABY!" It is all hypothetical when he says it, and wouldn't read much into it. But there's plenty of other stuff in his filter to look at, imo. Zarepath Let's pretend we are in the OBS talking about the claim Why is it so unlikely someone claims two games in a row? Maybe you wouldn't do this. But why are heuristics that you apply to yourself now valid for others? Its like when people say scum team has to have a lurker. Simply not true. Its an educated guess, but not a guarantee by any means. My point is I'm not fussed if u don't want to interpret war baby post as soft blue claim. That's a personal decision. What I am fussed about is if your idea rejection is based on the heuristic he wouldn't do it two games in a row. That is illogical reasoning and is actually an educated guess on your behalf. Unless u r in a scum team with war baby I don't see how u would be privy to that information to be so certain. (I am not accusing u of being scum BTW) | ||
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On February 12 2013 23:07 Mandalor wrote: I read Syl's post and I just don't see the connection between "I won't claim my actual role right now" and vig/scum. In fact, warbaby only said that sentence after he was kinda asked for a specific role by Corazon. There's nothing else to say to that other than "I won't claim my actual role right now" if you don't want to. It's not Syl's suspicion of warbaby that feels weird to me, but his thorough analysis of warbaby's actual role that doesn't feel right. There's absolutely zero contribution in that post for town, only for scum. K now i understand the concern Its process of elimination I would rather detail this post game, because blue talk is just not a good thing to be focusing on day1. Need to scum hunt. All I will say is, some blue roles are worth claiming, and others perhaps not so . The vig falls into the claimable category. Let's move on pls Since u r here @mandalor. Zarepath did an interesting experiment. Perhaps u could provide some analysis of any notable reactions. | ||
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I'm going to bed. Who said it before was right. Looks like we heading to a split between scummiest player or policy lurker. Will be interesting which way town chooses.which ever way u decide just ensure the reasoning is given please. My vote remains on geript. For all the same reasons as before. His post attempt coming back did little to sway me away as well. | ||
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On February 13 2013 07:36 warbaby wrote: What? Scum does not know who is VT and who is blue yet. If I claim VT or blue, scum will gain information. As town (which scum already knows), I will not do anything to give scum information unless it helps town. Anyone claiming their role on D1 is not helping town. It's that simple. Im back This is seriously suspect You never took this line of reasoning UNTIL I outlined it here: On February 12 2013 17:25 Mocsta wrote: Frankly, with the information we *had* I saw nothing wrong with Sylencia logic statement. If you re-examine with the information *POST-EVENT*; i still see nothing wrong with the assumptions Sylencia took. TL;DR I dont have a problem with Sylencia logic then, and I still dont. Claiming VT early is stupid, and creates less targets for scum to choose to eliminate blues. Hence, It really becomes: did he really soft-claim blue role; or did he make an all-in play based on his MVP last game. | ||
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On February 13 2013 06:21 glurio wrote: I'd prefer lynching one of the lurkier players, sevryn, syl or mandalor right now. Glurio Please detail why YOUR contributions are better than the three people listed above. I am shocked that you would turn your back on your own kind; because as far as I am concerned: YOU are a lurker, which is what I believe you are nominating the above three for. *ironic* is it not? | ||
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This is my idea for the situation Some camps want a lurker; others want the scummiest person I recommend we have 2 lynch candidates i.e. 1 agreed representative for the lurkers 1 agreed representative for the actives I hope this will help to consolidate votes Thoughts? | ||
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but I thought sevryn having the balls to come in and say "hey, listen to my case" was a town thing to do? wouldnt lurker scum be content hiding in the shadows? I will read the filters, see if I can find something dodgy; but thats all i remember of sevryn. | ||
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Dude, we were all over that at the start of the thread too... Theres no special treatment for you | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:07 Mocsta wrote: Guys; the vote count is seriously split This is my idea for the situation Some camps want a lurker; others want the scummiest person I recommend we have 2 lynch candidates i.e. 1 agreed representative for the lurkers 1 agreed representative for the actives I hope this will help to consolidate votes Thoughts? | ||
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my thoughts on Glurio Not much, but seems to be a hypocrite taking the easy options all the time.I sticking to Geript regardless. On February 13 2013 08:05 Mocsta wrote: Glurio Please detail why YOUR contributions are better than the three people listed above. I am shocked that you would turn your back on your own kind; because as far as I am concerned: YOU are a lurker, which is what I believe you are nominating the above three for. *ironic* is it not? | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:19 warbaby wrote: I reject any active players as candidates today. It just doesn't make sense to lynch someone D1 who is trying to contribute to town. I've already given my two LAL candidates, repeatedly: sylvencia: his last post does not de-lurk him IMO, it added nothing to the discussion that hasn't already been said. I'm not OMGUS'ing him, I just think he's still effectively lurking. sevryn: I don't see a lot of value to his posts, his case on glurio makes no sense to me. he has been a little more consistent about going after glurio, and is trying to make novel contributions, so he's #2 for my LAL candidate. If you want a #3: Mandalor. Not very far behind sevryn. Sorry warbaby but in my opinion "your thoughts are compromised" on this subject. Because you are one of the actives that could be a candidate; and Geript is on your side as the other active hence, your motives are gonig to be to save your ass ==> vote lurkers. *sorry to be harsh.. im not intending it to come across as a prick* | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:19 Sn0_Man wrote: There are others who post less who have also contributed no actual scumhunting The "why don't we both stop posting for a bit" post seems quite reasonable to me. The thread was being clouded with a ton of irrelevant yammer. The fact that warbaby has echoed others is lamentable but not unique. Sometimes you agree with a case that is presented. The fact that he wishes to vote for Sylencia is also not unreasonable. In fact, it could be construed as scumhunting. It isn't like Sylencia is a WORSE target than many other lurkers. None of what I say makes any claim to "prove" WB as town, but it gives reasonable doubt to his scumminess (IMO). As such, I still request that we lynch somebody with extremely low post-count and contributions. I feel like you are tunnelling really hard for no reason cora. I'm still willing to look at a WB lynch for sure, BUT NOT TODAY. Mr Sno_Man; i said this at the start of the game (I think).. and I think now is an opportune time to say it again. Policy Lynch is never meant to occur (even town lying can be acceptable at times - e.g. "Are you JK".. Why of course not.. (lie) Lynch all Lurkers is a concept designed to promote discussion and force activity. It is never meant to be followed through with. Think about the consequence. (1) Lynch a scum - great of course.. but thats all the information you are left with; there is no linkage, and Day2 becomes a repeated Day1 (with perhpas more focus due to having more town reads) (2) Lynch a town - completely fucked; again no information due to no linkage, and now Day2 is a high pressure situation You are always meant to lynch the person with the HIGHEST chance to flip scum. Now whether this is an active or lurker is THE question. Are you telling me; that in the filters of your top two (Sylencia and Sevryn) you can ONLY see scum motivations for the actions? If so, vote them; otherwise I think the risk is too much to gamble with. Also, for some WIFOM (sorry).. but; if from the get-go, several have been advocating to lynch lurkers vehemently; do you not think then that scum may actaully have decided to go active blendy; instead of lurker blendy? | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:29 Sn0_Man wrote: Personally, I think that your vote on geript looks dumb moc. I've already stated this but cmon. He legitimately dislikes you due at least in part to your play so far. He makes a case on you that I really don't think is illegitimate, although I think you are town (the case isn't retarded, although it isn't strong either). The fact that you already have him and warbaby as a scumteam rings alarm bells to me because you should know that association cases day 1 pre-flip are NUTSO BAD. As such, I request that you MOVE your vote to something that town can agree upon. If you think that sevryn is not scum, and would prefer to lynch glurio (OR SOME OTHER REAL CANDIDATE WITH REASONS) let me know. Thx. I actually feel like corazon now, as in: people seem to be "forgetting" the filter. I answered previously that I can see why you think it is association. If it was, I would be voting warbaby > geript as first link. My problem is the way Geript came in; he could have defended a scum buddy or a town guy for cred. His choice to chainsaw was suboptimal and is a very scummy action in general His actions since then have also been sub-optimal. His actions and approach post-chain saw have been null and best and "save my scummy ass" at worse. THAT is why i voted Geript. over warbaby. (It is not association based) If you want to know why I kept pressuring warbaby; its because even though I wanted to back off, he kept saying shit that made him suspect again in my opinion. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:36 Sn0_Man wrote: Either way, if you want to lynch "blendy active" then lynch WoS imo. Buuuuut I really would rather lynch lurkers. They have equal or greater chance of being scum anyway. Interesting.. Why WoS instead of zarepath? You know the more I think about the fake case, the odder I think it is Its innovative, cant say I seen that before.. but, perhaps because, the only ppl that need to write fake cases are scum? When he provides his "promised analysis" on the how everything proceeded, I will be in a better position to judge the actual motivation; its just something really different, and dont know how to treat it yet. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Come to think of it I'm not sure why I even responded since I'm in no danger of being lynched. Glurio and Sylencia you have an hour left. Care to defend yourselves at all or make some sort of a case? I have no hope for Sevryn at this point. I dont think either of them will be present right now due to timezones. Fingers crossed they are here before the lynch but. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:47 warbaby wrote: Sylencia posted like 10 minutes ago. Are you confusing him with sevryn? Sylencia is in Australia so i know hes here (7:50am for me) Glurio is definitely Europe, so Missing IN Action i surmise Sevryn I have no idea; i assume europe and asleep | ||
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I just checked your filter and noticed your recent posts are defensive (perhaps due to pressure you) What I need from you to determine alignment is not a defense; but to see you scum hunt. I could not find a vote in your filter.Please indicate who your top scum read, and dot point why. | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:51 glurio wrote: I'm back, with the current events i'd much rather vote for Mandalor then for sevryn. Mandalor kinda just hopped on syls wagon, while sevryn at least had the guts to vote for someone who didn't have a vote so far and wasn't really in the spotlight. That's something i wouldn't expect from scum. WTF is this shit.. you come in here and just re-quote things I have been saying On February 12 2013 14:41 Mocsta wrote: Heck even sevryn had the balls to bust in over the top of you guys and give an opinion. You're really starting making me want to join the lurker lynch with shit like that. Please address the below On February 13 2013 08:05 Mocsta wrote: Glurio Please detail why YOUR contributions are better than the three people listed above. I am shocked that you would turn your back on your own kind; because as far as I am concerned: YOU are a lurker, which is what I believe you are nominating the above three for. *ironic* is it not? | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:52 glurio wrote: Europe here, it's nearly 1am. When exactly is the lynch? In one hour or two? 1hr | ||
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On February 13 2013 08:50 cDgCorazon wrote: Take a look at my scum play from NMM XXXIII. Why do you think I got away with being scum for so long? Because I was active and looking pro-town. Disagree. You got HEAPZ of town cred because Spag was mislynched sticking up for you. Made everyone auto-assume you were town. You maintained the town cred by being involved in discussion; but IIRC you didnt step on toes or push your own agenda =>> active blendy | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:02 zarepath wrote: I'm short on time and, unfortunately, as thorough an analysis as I'd hoped. I will be voting for one of the following: Sevryn, glurio, warbaby, Mandalor, Sylencia Out of that list my order is (most scummy @ top) warbaby glurio mandalor sylencia/sevryn corazon couldnt get traction on warbaby, so i wont bother going there glurio has just been a slippery "tough mudler" all game. Why are you treating it as "town aligned" that he built a case because he was asked. If anything, thats NULL at best, scummy at worst. Then he claims he built bullshit case to flush out scum; yet, this only came into light after zarepath expressed the same thing. corazon hit it on the nail; zarepath breadcrumbed, glurio didnt. Again, NULL at best, scummy at worst. Then he makes a list of lurkers for vote, and conveniently takes himself off the list as if his contributions have been pro-town; this reeks of scum trying to cling onto what ever wagon is taking off and not giving a two shits on who the vote is for This is scummy at BEST, really scummy at worst. Depending on how Glurio answers my question I addressed to him, I am seriously considering swapping my vote from Geript to him. | ||
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basically said.. his contributions are better than the other lurkers because On February 13 2013 09:02 glurio wrote: I know my alignement, don't know theres, i'm town. ##Unvote ##Vote: Glurio Even bad town are trying to contribute, its just they dont know how to do it effectively. (Look at WoS) That you can not even discriminate between your contributions and others, suggests you're not even trying. Guess what, thats scummy as. | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:40 glurio wrote: How is it your most scummy guy only gets mentioned once in your whole post (that is in the list you posted where he is #1)? How is it syl is on the bottom of the list although you asked him to make a case and he didn't do it? Why do you leave out more than half of my explanation out of your vote post? Where is geript, the person you voted 47 hours of D1 for in that list, or sn0 who you had as most likely scum at some point of the game? Pretty simple. i was responding to zarepath list of lurkers worth lynching I want more activity from Sylencia; but I liked his reasoning on warbaby town claim WAY more than anything you have provided. I thought it was a good analysis/contribution | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:43 warbaby wrote: OK, the wagon on glurio is pretty wack IMO, With reasoning like that, i could think you're not voting for Glurio because I am. Come on, if you want to be pro-town, stimulate discussion, walk me through why my reasoning is wack | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:42 glurio wrote: I still stand by we can't lynch a soft-claiming blue right now. Awesome, now I know the key to staying in the claim. Ok, I have a role.. but I will claim it post-Night 3 K guys SWEET, now I know I can only be NK'd and never mislynched great thought process there Glurio... | ||
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On February 13 2013 09:48 glurio wrote: Still nothing about warbaby being on top of the list and you saying nothing on him AGAIN, even after calling you out on it. Now it is obvious you aren't reading the thread cora and I, have been the proponents of warbaby all game. TOWN LYNCH THIS SCUM MUDAFARKER | ||
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sorry guys | ||
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can i suggest we stop talking about blues (im looking at you sn0)... with NK this cycle; lets not help out the scum pls warbaby you were the only person dead set against glurio (that commented) Can you please give more reason than meta to why you thuoght he was town; you said my reasoning was sound, yet you refused to jump on... I want to know why. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Well fuck, I would have been right. I'll post it now, up to you guys whether you want to believe me or not. + Show Spoiler + Thank you Mocsta and Sn0 for not making me explain this action myself: [b]##Unvote: Macheji ##Vote: Sevryn On February 13 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote: Mr Sno_Man; i said this at the start of the game (I think).. and I think now is an opportune time to say it again. Policy Lynch is never meant to occur (even town lying can be acceptable at times - e.g. "Are you JK".. Why of course not.. (lie) Lynch all Lurkers is a concept designed to promote discussion and force activity. It is never meant to be followed through with. Think about the consequence. On February 13 2013 04:57 Sn0_Man wrote: Why are you voting for a 1/4 chance when you could vote for a 1/2 chance (glurio/sevyrn)? Plus, I'm of the opinion that it should be fairly easy to lynch one of glurio/sevyrn if you make a realistic case. I can't honestly tell which of the two is scummier. If I'm wrong, risk taken and you can all decide what it means after the fact. So your two reads are sevryn and macheji? K...Did you want to lead the pressure on them? | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:07 warbaby wrote: I never said I thought he was town, I said I didn't think he was scum. My read wasn't any better than null, in the post I linked earlier. You insinuating I called him town is putting WIFOM into my mouth, which is not what I said. One of the people that lynched glurio is scum. I refuse to believe 3 towns lynched him. We need to focus on: Sevryn Mocsta cdgCorazon And perhaps we can find a scum. It's fine if you guys still want to make cases on me, but I didn't just lynch a townie. Sevryn seems the most questionable. He really needs to post a lot more to show he's not a lurky scum. True, i just read the post again; sorry for the misrepresentation. That you stood up for me, made me think you thought he was town. Not sure why you would step in to defend a "null' read; even now with hindsight, thats an odd move to make. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:14 warbaby wrote: Because why would I lynch, or agree to the lynch of, someone I have a null read on, when there are lurkers like sylencia (at the time) and sevryn still in the game? I tried to debunk the wack "glurio is a blendy scum like last game" wagon, and failed. It's not that I thought he was town, it was that I thought he was going to be lynched for incorrect reasons, compared to the other candidates. Right, so if I read right; it wasnt that you was sticking up for Glurio, it was that you wanted your wagon to take off (i.e Sylencia/Sevryn) If so, I can accept that. if you were sticking up for Glurio because he was null; thats really an odd thing to do (even with your explanation) | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:21 warbaby wrote: I would have been happy with a wagon on sylencia or sevryn, or possibly zarepath and mandalor. I thought they were all potentially lurking harder/playing outside their normal town meta, moreso than glurio. Sorry bud, you're the one on the wagon that just lynched a town, not me. I don't need to explain my D1 votes any more (I explained them when I made them, so just check my filter). You need to explain your vote. You just lynched an active town player because you thought he was playing lurky scum like last game, no? But how can he be lurkier than players with 50% less posts? warbaby, I think you need to get your facts straight before you start shooting your gun #1 I actually pressured Glurio. Ohh btw I even pressured your "apparent top" scum read Sylencia #2 My reasoning for Glurio were sound enough for you to even suggested you agreed I dont even understand your comment in bold; are you talking about past games, because it is referenced as if you are discussing Glurio. My point stands; you were the only person that contested my reasoning; but then state you thought he was "null" FACT: Nobody sticks up for nulls reads without a hidden agenda. (e.g. promote your bandwagon or scum creating confusion) Null reads are the ones you watch the most carefully, to see how they react to pressure. Your post above, indicates you were not fussed about a wagon on a variety of people. Hence, there is absolutely NO REASON to contest the lynch if Glurio was "null" the way you did. Your Day1 behaviour from start to finish have been suspect as. If I make an clear assumption you are scum: Its easy to see you tried to derail Glurio back to Sylencia, because you thought sylencia may have been more 'valuable' to town. Obviously this relies on a flip, so I wont jump to conclusions; but fuck me your actions are fishy warbaby. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:30 Sn0_Man wrote: This entire vote was so retarded. WoS: The fact that you literally threw away your vote with no regard for who got lynched makes me want to call you scum. UNFORTUNATELY, like 6 other people did the same thing (no I didn't count how many). @Warbaby: If I was scum I'd be happy to laugh at retarded town who can't summon more than a 3-2-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 vote. There is no reason for any of them to be on glurio unless they either a) felt the need to save sevryn (aka sevryn is scum, kinda lines up with his vote) or b) they were afraid of people blaming them for throwing away their vote like what I just did to WoS. Dunno. That doesn't convince me that any of those 3 *must* be scum. Sn0 I am finding warbaby trying to fit in with town just not working for me. I am more than happy for him to pursue this lead and pressure me (and the others). I think it will lead to his undoing, and then hopefully you guys will see what I see. I think debating on who scum voted for and why is just too much WIFOM, save it for after a flip is my opinion. | ||
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On February 13 2013 10:44 WaveofShadow wrote: But you know what, sometimes it's necessary. We just flipped, let's talk about it Mocsta, and those who lynched our poor Glurio. I honestly wish I were better at this game because I can't pick out scumroles/scumteam. I could very easily see you and geript going at it and picking up opposite roles along with a lurker....ugh. After my second midterm tomorrow and N1 I'll have more time to put into this and I'll try to come up with something. If you want to enter discourse by asking me something; I will oblige, but do not expect me to initiate those type of topics without a flip. The reason i think it is pointless is because, you go "Assume Mocsta is scum" He did X, Y, Z Now, lets say the bandwagon builds up and you get my flip and realise its a mislynch; then what? You have wasted an entire cycle because of an "association" If you think me n Geript is faked; do you think I would have held my vote on him for so long; and kept pushing him and explaining myself and trying to communicate my thought process? Now in my opinion: The correct process to follow now, is to re-read the thread and consider scum motives. I am about to do this myself, and will be looking for the following:
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On February 13 2013 10:47 ObviousOne wrote: Hey guys! I have been reading the thread on-and-off but nothing resembling deep analysis yet since I wasn't anticipating replacing in. Spur of the moment decision to hop in. I'm considering it a personal challenge to myself to be the most active player at least for the night phase so I can get a better read on you as questions pop up during my read, and you can get a better read on me and my scum-hunting abilities. That said, after saying hello here I need to sod off for a few hours. I'm about to run a raid so I'll be back in a bit to start my deep read. Hi being not involved in the thread, you might be the perfect guy for this. If you want to be active, can you please have a go at answering the below: On February 13 2013 10:55 Mocsta wrote: I am about to do this myself, and will be looking for the following:
Thank you. | ||
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WoS Votes dont apply N1 lol Im happy to discuss Sevryn further; what makes him scum to you? No need for a case, just outline some dot points you think are scum tells. | ||
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(Now that you have caught up) Welcome Your first post is not a bad start into a 30 page thread. I hope by the end of night cycle you will have digested the Day1 occurrences enough to share your best scum read. P.S. Your last game was like 6-8months ago according to profile; since it only shows town games: how would you describe your town play; as in, aside from being active what do you think we can expect from your play? | ||
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On February 14 2013 04:28 ObviousOne wrote: @Mocsta do you yourself think Sylencia was more valuable to town than Glurio? Consider this given any hindsight based on anything Sylencia may have posted thus far N1. What does Sylencia offer to town that Glurio lacked? Also, do you think WaveofShadow is trying to bait you into making association cases based on a town flip so you can look more scummy down the line if you're ever on another town lynch vote list? (1) I wrote this intentionally vague because I didnt want to highlight this thought/assumption during Night 1. I thought people in the moment would understand the reference. If you need, I will answer this in more detail Day2. On the chance I am NK'd, the breadcrumb I will leave is: look at Sn0_Man filter; its a direct reference to that. (2) I didn't read it that way; and to be brutally honest, what I have seen from WoS so far does not indicate he thinks ahead *THAT* far. I read the post as he was confirmation biased towards his two lurker reads; and was saying whatever is required to keep them in the limelight - even if the logic is inaccurate. If what you say above is true; and if he was scum, I think we are fucked 'cos thats pretty crafty. | ||
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On February 14 2013 02:09 Sn0_Man wrote: On a slightly different topic: I would like to hear an explanation of this line Mocsta. I asked before but I don't remember much of an answer. On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote: You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. It has to do with: On February 12 2013 11:40 geript wrote: I didn't claim warbaby as town; I stated I think he's town. There's a big difference between the two. back to rereading Then our conversation On February 12 2013 15:03 Sn0_Man wrote: I still don't see it as a "chainsaw defence of a scumbuddy". On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote:You know what, *this* post made me realise where geript commentary came from, specifically claim town vs think town. The point being; it never clicked with me why Geript mentioned he was saying he thought WB was town, instead of claimed town. When you said, it may not have been a "scum buddy" it all clicked together. I countered by saying: On February 12 2013 15:23 Mocsta wrote: just keep in mind please; chainsaw defense doesnt apply to just defending scum buddy. its basically just attacking the someones attacker personally (instead of their argument). So can be applied to defending town. | ||
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K. i am 50% through my last will | ||
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Mocsta N1: Last Will Firstly, the item below needs to be cleared, as several have raised it. "I am concerned about Mocsta drop in 'usual activity'" (1) I am playing two on-going games; the other game started a few days before this and Lynch deadlines are the same days. That game takes priority over this one. (2) I could only join this game because the experience limit was lifted; I don't think it is fair for me to try to mayor discussion. I got called out for it early on -rightfully (sorry, its a habit so am now trying to active lurk, and throw in my feedback when I see stuff I find suspicious; instead of lead discussion.To the real stuff: People I would spend time listening to Day2: + Show Spoiler [ObviousOne] + I like the way he has entered the game, and shared his posts. Liking the way a guy posts is not town indicative though, so, we really need ObviousOne to step up and pressure a scum read; to gain understanding of alignment. Remember, a case says more about the MAKER, than the target. + Show Spoiler [zarepath] + I am so conflicted with this guy. In my opinion, his "fake case" actually unsettled town and is responsible for creating this split vote outcome. I am still trying to piece together whether the outcome was simply not thought through enough (town); OR intentional (scum). My concern is that, zarepath did not deliver the thorough analysis of this "experiment" like promised - at least I dont recall reading it. I also noticed at the end of Night 1, zarepath shared some reads; but these are based on the thread dynamics, not his experiment (conveniently....) I think zarepath needs to provide *VERY* clear reasoning behind his actions this Day2. If needs be; pressure him for this. Remember, the experiment itself is NULL. It comes down to WHAT he does with the information. People I would spend time pressuring Day2: + Show Spoiler [Testsubject (2nd new guy)] + Give him 24hrs to read the 40 pages; by then, he better have a scum read, otherwise it might be pertinent to discuss a policy lynch. + Show Spoiler [warbaby] + I re-read his filter; and this guy just flip flops constantly and tries to join whatever bandwagon he can. He is also constantly referencing old-games; either himself as town, or me as scum. I judge people by their actions in-game; he seems to be avoiding this, as when he even admits 'he doesnt have strong opinions" middle of Day1, and what has been shared since then, seems to be the same.He is still one of my strongest scum reads + Show Spoiler [Mandalor] + This guy has not done much all game, other than offer excuse after excuse. I have not seen anything that I interpret as town aligned; so he is null for me. That is the problem; I would expect by Day2, people have offered enough to be towny, or scummy. Why is he in the middle? This guy needs to be put in the interrogation room, like NOW! + Show Spoiler [Geript] + Need I say more? This guy has shown glimmers of trying to figure out the game, and then does the oddest shit from that. - Put a defense on warbaby by attacking me (The case was refuted easily) - Gives a non-chalant response towards the mislynch. - The case of Corazon reads as if there is no conviction. Which is surprising; why make the case if you do not believe in it? Surely this isnt another Glurio trying to claim a "zarepath" experiment. - Another weird thing with Geript is his opening vote on warbaby; as an "experiment" yet when I come after warbaby, he jumps straight in to be warbaby knight in shining armour People I think need to step up Day2: + Show Spoiler [WaveofShadow] + I have not been focusing on this guy for a couple reasons (1) Been concentrating on people like warbaby/Geript (2) I credited him as "bad townie" prior, so never felt a need to prioritize him Thing is, every time I read something from this guy, I just get an odd vibe. Haven't put in enough time to decipher where this feeling derives from though. I am going to treat him as "null" for Day2, and see how it goes from there. | ||
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On February 14 2013 09:52 ObviousOne wrote: OMG Mocsta <3 for being first in your list. I hope my last post was helpful in regard to your note about me. I didnt accuse you of anything. Your listed under People need to give you a chance to speak (i.e. listen to) I dont think pressuring you this early is going determine your alignment. The other new guy is listed under "pressure" because he is yet to post. and we cant let him fly by Day2, being under the radar. | ||
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2 KILLS? who is vig? | ||
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If there is a vig out there; you better have breadcrumbs. proper vig play, is to say who you are killing in the last minute before deadline (in this case you had 1 hr) Newbie games always 1-shot vig; so if present, you are now VT; its safe to speak up | ||
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sorry, shoulad said that first.. just a bit shocked thats all | ||
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hmm warbaby as SK.. actually that makes sense considering he has been flip flopping around so much, and joins whatever bandwagon is present. SK doesnt care about wagons either. ##Vote: warbaby | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote: I was roleblocked last night. Im taking a break; thsi is seriously fucked up (1) Who did mafia actually target? (2) 2nd hit: Vig hit or SK hit; (3) Your RB; town JK or scum RB? too much WIFOM for me. Be back later when head is cleared. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:37 zarepath wrote: I'm convinced that the scum shot WaveofShadow, and here's why: That read to me as a very clear DT claim, and is what led me to doing my fake case on Wave -- I was pretty sure I'd found the DT and wanted to know who was willing to see him dead. Unfortunately, the fact that I saw his claim means that scum could also have seen the claim and decide to kill him N1. That same logic leads to scum not wanting to be any part of a mislynch on him, because they know he'll flip blue and they can't have that blood on their hands, which makes me think that scum are most likely to be the ones that gave support to my case but didn't push it. I don't know why Wave made a fake DT claim, other than to lure a mafia hit, of course. Or there's also the possibility that it wasn't a DT claim at all and he just randomly screwed up his capital letters. Sorry to chip in. but that is really bad logic DT isn't a role this game.... its pretty easy to check; frankly, i dont know why your making these type of claims without doing your homework? i.e. I would like an answer to the above please. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:46 zarepath wrote: Mocsta, can you explain this please? I didn't understand this at all; it seemed kind of cryptic. Were you saying that geript might be a Mason with Warbaby or something? No, not implying that. I implied what I stated. When i accused Geript of being scum and chainsaw defending warbaby. Geript retort was: but i stepped in because I thought he was town (not claimed he was town) It wasnt until Sn0_Man commented, that I realised Geript was inferring: he had no knowledge of warbaby alignment due to *NOT* being scum Thought it was clear, obviously not. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:59 TestSubject893 wrote: Sylencia, I'd really like to know the answer to this. Working on a post right now guys, will be up soon. Can you please indulge why this is of the utmost priority for you? I would have thought being a new guy, perhaps, you would be focusing on establishing your innocence; rather than digesting "blue role" information. | ||
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On February 14 2013 10:48 zarepath wrote: LOL wow, apparently you're right. That was a really needlessly risky thing I did then on Day 1. I built a lot of assumptions off of that. Okay, so I read the roles once before the game started, but decided I wasn't even going to look at them until after N1 to keep myself from delving into needless role speculation. I really should've checked when I saw the DT claim, but the last 4 games I've played have all had DTs and for some reason seeing those two capital letters in such an awkward sentence just made everything click for me and got me all excited. Whoah whoah, dont run away so fast; This DT stuff is adding even more confusion to my last will comment to you. On February 14 2013 09:48 Mocsta wrote: Mocsta N1: Last Will [zarepath]I am so conflicted with this guy. In my opinion, his "fake case" actually unsettled town and is responsible for creating this split vote outcome. I am still trying to piece together whether the outcome was simply not thought through enough (town); OR intentional (scum). My concern is that, zarepath did not deliver the thorough analysis of this "experiment" like promised - at least I dont recall reading it. I also noticed at the end of Night 1, zarepath shared some reads; but these are based on the thread dynamics, not his experiment (conveniently....) I think zarepath needs to provide *VERY* clear reasoning behind his actions this Day2. If needs be; pressure him for this. Remember, the experiment itself is NULL. It comes down to WHAT he does with the information. Im going to give you a quick run down on my worst-case interpretation:
If I look at you in best case scenario:
The problem I have with 'best-case scenario" is; if there was nothing of note to provide analysis; why not just spill the beans instead of moving along like nothing happened? (Its obviously too late to say anything now, its just WIFOM) Lastly, as I said before, i think your case was a major issue to why we could not consolidate votes Day1. I | ||
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Guys we need a counter-claim on the "tracker" pls ObviousOne... I curious to hear this one. ##Unvote | ||
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I read the logic over a few times; I think the options listed are valid. ObviousOne is a candidate for SK.. but I need to hear somethings from you first Can you please clarify: On February 14 2013 11:17 TestSubject893 wrote: B is unlikely becuase there is little reason for the mafia to think that ObviousOne will get tracked. If scum did not value ObviousOne; why would you target him? That part of the story needs to be complete for me. As an aside, we know ObviousOne isnt JK, because the kill went through despite a "JK block" Completely agree on the vig logic deduction. Second question: Lets say ObviousOne claims VT => (COULD be Nosy Neghbour, he is not self-aware) What do we do; do we lynch ObviousOne? If so, if he flips town; does that mean we lynch you next? I want to believe your claim; but the umm.. amazingness of it all is making me shocked all over again. I cant handle this twice in 2hours. Really need your answers on the above; and feedback from ObviousOne. | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:35 ObviousOne wrote: Well, fuck. There goes my shot at staying null. I am Pops the Doorman and the Vigilante. I shot WaveofShadow. I thought he was scum. I couldn't get a good read on him based on D1 and I felt it would give me insight into his back-and-forth with Corazon and thus more information about Corazon. Haven't looked yet at Corazon in light of the flip but now that it's out, you know where I was going with it and why I mentioned it earlier. I don't believe in breadcrumbs (as you can see in the case of Zarepath, they aren't exactly invisible) and from what I've read/experienced in normal games, breadcrumbs are a good way to get yourself killed with a power role. I also didn't want to give scum a chance at finding a confirmed town for tomorrow so I just kept quiet. I have serious problems with this claim as TestSubject pointed out. On February 14 2013 11:17 TestSubject893 wrote: A is unlikely for the following reasons. ObviousOne said himself that a Vigilante should have checked in ahead of time, making it unlikely that that is his role Then there is: On February 14 2013 10:03 Mocsta wrote: This is total bullshit: If there is a vig out there; you better have breadcrumbs. proper vig play, is to say who you are killing in the last minute before deadline (in this case you had 1 hr) Newbie games always 1-shot vig; so if present, you are now VT; its safe to speak up Now, i said @ 10:03 it is SAFE TO SPEAK UP, you are now VT note @ 10:23 ObviousOne says On February 14 2013 10:23 ObviousOne wrote: Still have some time for a possible Vig to check in. I'm surprised there wasn't a claim given there was an hour window during which night actions were being put through, but that might just mean they're not able to respond yet. Going to have to assume SK if there isn't a claim in the next 24 hours. ##Vote: ObviousOne You just fucked up majorly Mr.SK | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:35 ObviousOne wrote: Well, fuck. There goes my shot at staying null. I am Pops the Doorman and the Vigilante. LOL is Pops even a muppet? Reminds me. of "Hi, I am Tommy the Fireman" | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:52 TestSubject893 wrote: Do you still need me to address B Mocsta? I'm still not really sure what you're asking. All m00t now. I was trying to keep an open mind to things; hence the questions. But I think he just shat himself and didnt read your post properly. If he did, he would have known vig was the one thing he could NOT claim LOL | ||
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Another kicker. ObviousOne posted during the 1hr (no change to actoins) zone.. Could have easily said.. Hi, I am vig, and chose WoS. So vote stands. Welcome TestSubject, you are not our first confirmed town Perhaps you can be the hero this town can trust for a consolidated vote | ||
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On February 14 2013 11:59 ObviousOne wrote: Who else but me as vigilante is able to speculate on the existence or absence of a vigilante so confidently? I knew nobody would speak up since I was responsible for the kill, and if anyone had dared I would be an instant counter-claim to it. That is a fair point. But Night 1, there was NO reason to suspect SK (as far as I was aware) As I already stated.. you had a 1hr window to claim Vig preDay2. You posted during this 1hr window.. but did not claim intention to kill WoS. The plan is foiled. | ||
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On February 14 2013 09:47 ObviousOne wrote: Okay gonna stop filter-diving for a moment to give you some of my findings. Sylencia (theres actually quite a few posts).. you even comment on my last will, given 15min prior to deadline On February 14 2013 10:17 Mocsta wrote: (2) 2nd hit: Vig hit or SK hit; On February 14 2013 10:23 ObviousOne wrote: Still have some time for a possible Vig to check in. I'm surprised there wasn't a claim given there was an hour window during which night actions were being put through, but that might just mean they're not able to respond yet. Im surprised too no-one claimed either. Words straight out of ya mouth. And you have proven you could respond.. and didnt.. so yeah.. SK SK SK | ||
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On February 14 2013 12:10 ObviousOne wrote: You sure you guys don't want any more help, then? If I'm the SK you have a guaranteed not-scum lynch putting you that much closer to MYLO/LYLO with no real information. I mean, I just want to know if I can fuck off if you're not going to read any more cases for me. If you will read them, they will come. The problem remains (1) You are scum and made the kill but u said you are vig and made the kill; so if we said.. you are scum... who the fuck killed geript.. either way, sk or scum which => lynch (2) You are vig and made the kill Considering only two kills; why pretend like there is SK around? SK there would be three kills... (3) You are SK and made the kill All coming together now, actions make sense. | ||
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On February 14 2013 12:19 Sevryn wrote: Hey mocsta why did you say mr. sk but not scum? do you already know he isn't scum? Hi Mr. lurker, Well I didnt think he was scum before the killing, so wasn't a natural thought to assume he is scum now. Either way; I am certain he is scum/SK now; and should be the lynch candidate for today. Are you going to continue lurking and taking snipes? Or are you going to join town and rid us of EVIL !! | ||
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On February 14 2013 12:21 ObviousOne wrote: You should probably judge that based on the evidence I dredge up, and not on me making promises for kills. After all, if people are decided that I am SK I'm not exactly sure how to refute that except to keep doing the job I'm supposed to be doing as town, as I have advocated others to do as well. That's pretty easy to judge based on what I bring to the thread and how successful I end up being ousting mafia. Look at it this way, you either have to take me out now because of your suspicions that I am SK at the risk a faster loss with two town lynches in a row, meaning town play MUST be very successful (town CAN come back from two town lynches in a row) - or - You can wait til you find the three scum with my help and if the game doesn't end you just straight up hang me on the spot. You forgot the most important "OR" OR town lynch you, and its equivalent to lynching scum; your win-con requires town and scum eliminated, so you are still a threat. | ||
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On February 14 2013 12:26 Sevryn wrote: hey im working on not lurking and have posted my views on corazon which I would love to hear what you think about it. if we decide to lynch OO which I think we should We have Two whole days to talk about who to lynch next which is a huge bonus. i do think we should stay away from arguements that involve speculating on what his flip means till he flips that way we dont get distracted on what it means. hmmm, Corazon hasnt been on my mind to be honest; I think someone made a case (?Geript IIRC) - which I guess is suspect, knowing that that OO killed WoS no matter alignment. I can look into it; but I still want more information from zarepath first. this SK dilemna has clouded the thread somewhat (deserving though albeit) so things like my questions to zarepath are buried. Taking a break regardless | ||
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On February 14 2013 13:34 ObviousOne wrote: I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it further. The rebels shall bow before the power of this fully armed and operational battlestation. Town What do you think of this offer? If I read right; he is offering to help shoot targets for us during the night? Is this something we want to consider as a collective? Or just lynch the lying muda farker? My quick thoughts on the matter. Pros We could essentially have "lynch" votes @ night, for the SK to target which could put pressure on scum to make mistakes Cons Do we even know this guy is SK > scum? Just cos he said so, doesnt mean so Can we trust him to shoot who we agree to? If he lies and shoots a townie, then we in real shit losing another two townies In the middle We going to have to get rid of him some stage of the game; lets say we keep him, then during Day3 we find scum. Who do we lynch; scum or SK? I dont see a a good risk/reward. We cant guarantee he will shoot scum (due to bad reads; or trusting he will shoot who we ask). + we might get a conflict of interest when we do find scum. My suggestion is to lynch him today; but happy to discuss this matter out if others feel differently. | ||
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On February 14 2013 14:07 cDgCorazon wrote: I don't think we should overcomplicate things, I'd say lynch him. I'd like to see what happens down the road a bit more before parking my vote, if that is ok. Certainly, I am not in control of your vote. I agree, lynch him (my vote is already that way). But not sure if others are going to "outnumber" my vote by saying he can take out lurkers or whatever. Hopefully the above posts convinces them it isn't worthwhile. | ||
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On February 14 2013 14:14 ObviousOne wrote: I used to be good at math, and while I'm not as good at it now, it's pretty certain that at the very least I can't afford to shoot another town member at this point so you guys better choose wisely. Me dont get that? 13 players; we down to 10. 1 SK ?2 or 3 scum? 6 or 7 town. Scum need to outnumber town AND get rid of SK to win. I dont see how you cant afford to shoot a townie; scum have to lynch/shoot you, and I expect you to be bullet proof (as no DT in the game). So will take 2 nights for scum to kill you. Town cant afford to lose a townie in general; let alone 3 down. But we are not in MYLO situation either if you want to be technical. | ||
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no-one trust him enough for NK Hes majority lynch; nothing more to discuss with OO I am still waiting for my feedback from zarepath (Test. i wasnt diverting from corazon... i asked questions to zarepath that had a chance to be buried, it was about bringing them back to the surface) Keep it Simple An an aside; I am starting to really not like Mandalor; pretty shitty filter AND not scum hunting from what I saw. Mandalor Please share top scum read; why; and lead some pressure I want to see a case too, if you don't mind -says more about you then the target. | ||
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On February 15 2013 07:50 ObviousOne wrote: I'm easy-going. Never mind that I had a minor panic attack when Test's claim came up, no, don't you pay one bit of attention to that. Honestly I really just want to kill someone one more night. I would have great joy, and as Mocsta said, town CAN afford it. :D Quote where i said that biatche. I said i recommend to lynch your lying muda farking ass. Still believe that | ||
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Ur dead rigjt. Pregame i wanted SK so bad still want it lol sigh | ||
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On February 15 2013 09:48 warbaby wrote: I assumed you being informed that you were blocked meant there was an RB, since JK does not mention informing the target that they were blocked. I could be wrong about this assumption, though. I am relatively experienced with JK; the "save" does indeed inform much like an RB.. in fact, if RB and JK both select the same target; the target will receive only 1 notification. | ||
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The vote is essentially majority now; are we able to shorten the cycle to say: 30hrs (or now); Pretty Puh-lease ? | ||
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On February 15 2013 11:22 cDgCorazon wrote: I'm not sure. Do you want me to delay my case until N2 or do you want me to give me thoughts now? I feel like cases lose traction after a day if the person does not get lynched... I assume you may not be voting for OO then Im stuck in the middle here.. Like you said on one hand; early cases tend to lose traction (and we have a clear lynch this cycle already) On the other hand; Town is not talking much anymore, so we almost lost a whole cycle and not scum hunted; this might kick start discussion I can't tell you what to do on this one; do which ever you think will be more beneficial. If it was me; I wouldn't release the case; BUT, that is only because zarepath still hasnt addressed my concerns.... | ||
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On February 15 2013 12:19 zarepath wrote: Mocsta, I thought I already addressed them. It's the most recent long post in my filter. Righto Not sure how I missed that lol Thanks The thought process relayed makes sense to me, pretty innovative tactic too. As an aside - probably not worth discussing further (just my musing): I still think your "case" contributed to the lack of consolidation. By this; I mean, that it played a part in the outcome; but do not infer it is the sole reason by any means. This is primarily because the fake case  ID* create a state of thread confusion - a genuine WTF moment; and in addition took away emphasis from most scum hunt pressure present in the thread at the time. The "fake case" conclusion did not lead to a clear target, and hence, for a meaningful portion of the cycle; there was essentially a lack of scum hunting. | ||
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On February 11 2013 09:43 warbaby wrote:
Guess what warbaby.. your still failing on this point in NMM37 | ||
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Unlike you, my reads this game are based on *Actual* in-game behaviour. Not meta based on roles or situations that do not apply this game. Seems to me you're taking a very convenient route of trying to contribute, without (guess-what...).. contributing | ||
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On February 15 2013 13:39 warbaby wrote: To put it another way, Mocsta, do you feel like lynching a semi-active town over a really shaky meta case is indicative of good scumhunting? When there were other more legit lurkers to lynch? What scumreads did you come out of it with? Me? Anybody else? I cant help but feel this was actually written rhetorically. I will share with you this: Pressuring 10 people; allows a majority to escape with no comment. Pressuring 3 people; still allows a majority to escape with no comment. Fact: It is If you can not piece two and two together, which I suspect: Ruminate on this. Many points have been addressed to you regarding your scummy-ish antics throughout all cycles of the game. You have not answered any of them sufficiently; this is nothing new so far. Your play is full of OMGUS and flaming others, even though you promised not to sink so low. So yes, you are my priority target for pressure. Thats called good play. | ||
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its like warbaby is planning for Night phase already... why else would he seek this information at this point in the game? warbaby Why are you just asking about corazon... instead you choose to "ignore" I made no metnion of Sn0_Man or Sylencia either? Stop being tunneled; stop flaming; and ffs stop OMGUS | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:17 warbaby wrote: I'm making a case on Mocsta. Obviously I'm not going to try to lynch him today, but that's not going to stop me from starting to make a case. On February 11 2013 09:43 warbaby wrote: I'd like to post basically the same thing I did at the beginning of NMM 36. Hopefully these simple points will help create a constructive town atmosphere.
Another fail from warbaby this game. Another broken promise. Keep up the OMGUS warbaby Heres a tip; stop trying to posture like you're all pro-town and sprouting "i'm making a case" You either make a case; or you don't. Once again, warbaby always cares about the town image he is trying to gather, rather than the action itself.... *I wonder what that means...* /sarcasm | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Cause you say all of this shit and either I've answered it before or you throw my posts was out of context or twist my words... I just wouldnt bother with him anymore corazon. He is intentionally twisting everything, and never presents a well-reasoned argument. I think he is well aware the only reason I took my vote off him this cycle was due to the TestSubject find on OO. Dunno who you're case is on; but he prob assumes you're still suspicious of him regardless. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:28 warbaby wrote: When I look at your filter since the start of N1, the large majority of it is explaining your vote on glurio, and talking about me. I'm sorry, but that's just how it looks to me. Even in posts where you mention other people, you mention me as well. Do you need me to link every post you've made since D1 end, and do a statistical analysis of how many mention something other than me and your D1 vote? It won't look good... So. because you're my scum read, I can't pressure you. Is that how this goes? LOL At least now you admitting its OMGUS, thats the first step in Mafia Anonymous. | ||
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Shoot warbaby | ||
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That musta been a rollecoaster for you. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:28 warbaby wrote: Do you need me to link every post you've made since D1 end, and do a statistical analysis of how many mention something other than me and your D1 vote? It won't look good... On February 15 2013 14:32 Mocsta wrote: So. because you're my scum read, I can't pressure you. Is that how this goes? On February 15 2013 14:37 warbaby wrote: You can pressure me all you want. Based on your will, you plan to pressure a dead town, a living (probably) confirmed blue, mandalor, and myself. On February 15 2013 14:38 cDgCorazon wrote: Of course, Sylencia is the one and only scum...right? On February 15 2013 14:46 warbaby wrote: Your association with Mocsta. Basically, since Mocsta refuses to analyze you, still, it makes you both look scummy. Mocsta analyzed other people in his will but skipped you. I believe TestSubject asked Mocsta to comment on you, while analyzing Mocsta's will. I have asked Mocsta to comment on you. Why does he refuse? I already explained why I don’t see a need to talk about Corazon. I don’t see him as scum, why is it so hard to accept that. And if you want examples of double standards warbaby: try this Zarepath also gave a list of reads to push Day2 On February 14 2013 04:10 zarepath wrote: I don’t see you querying him; its only me.. *how curious*Zarepath's Reads In conclusion, people I think are suspicious and would like other's thoughts on: Sevryn Warbaby Mandalor Sylencia Obv and 9-Bit's replacement also deserve scrutiny. But right now my two biggest reads are Sylencia and Mandalor. I think people should look at my brief reads on them, read their filters, and I want to hear your own conclusions. On February 14 2013 08:04 cDgCorazon wrote: My Last Will Warbaby- Geript- WoS- Syl/Mandalor/Sevryn/OO/Testsubject(Basically everyone who fit how Glurio was playing)- Again warbaby, convenient double standards You are exhibiting clear fallacies where logic that applies to one person making them "scum" is not applicable to others demonstrating identical behaviour. Some prefer to term it "tunneling" Good luck with your case. | ||
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On February 15 2013 14:57 ObviousOne wrote: Warbaby is the easiest case to make in this game. Well, outside of the Obvious. With me WB and Zare heading towards death theres just gonna be ten pages of Mocsta and Cora agreeing with each other LOL. Jenga what.. zare? why? do you know something we dont? | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote: The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB... Its actually funnier that I hit him with a very valid point (double standards on last will reads) and now he runs off to "bed"... as i said before, at least he admitted today he was OMGUS | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:20 warbaby wrote: I believe your point was that in the association between you and Mocsta, Mocsta looks scummier. I agree, but I didn't realize I had to state so explicitly. Nope. that wasnt the point at all. He actually stated, neither of us have talked about each other much. and in the past hour since its been you, I and him.. him and I happen to agree (on you) You're the one looking for associations that don't exist. | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote: Sorry, my case is not OMGUS, it is based on meta, voting patterns, and associations. I'm also following up with points TestSubject made, which I agree with. It's not a great case, like I already pointed out. You don't need to defend yourself from me, you need to go hunt scum. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you, Mocsta. Right... so when you ask me questions.. apparently you are scum hunting. and when I ask you questions.. "i need to go hunt scum" Lol; | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote: No Mocsta, I said that I haven't been talking about you, you have been talking about me more. What am I supposed to do when I guy continually says, why haven't you been talking about corazon? Anyways I dont think your scum; so whats the problem if I agreed on a few points with you? | ||
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On February 15 2013 15:58 cDgCorazon wrote: It just seems like you have been trying a bit too hard to associate yourself with me. Obviously I'm not shouting "burn the witch", but I believe that you are the main reason (obviously things I've done haven't helped) that all this association shit is going on. Going to disagree here. I have have never had a problem saying to others when I agree. As a corollary, I never have a problem saying to others I disagree. If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you. The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest. The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed) Below is a recap of what happened; because I think you have misinterpreted events (1) TestUser was very interested in you; and noticed I made no reference of you in the last will. (ignoring, there were several others I made no mention of either) (2)you, myself and warbaby have been online the past couple hours. He decided to latch onto TestUser query above, as a basis for his association theory. (I think he also referenced us both hunting him) In the process of our menagetrois, you said some things I agreed with. After all, both of us took issue with warbaby around the same time... i didnt realise it was unnatural or scummy to say when you agree with a comment. I dont see how mafia experience is relevant to that either. So in short; the only person perpetuating association claims is warbaby. And its pretty obvious right now he will take a stab at anything. | ||
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On February 15 2013 16:26 cDgCorazon wrote: I actually rechecked TestUser filter and realised the question didnt come derive from my last will.So do you think there is a part in TestUser's case that I haven't addressed that I should? Or do you think this association thing is a result a logical fallacy in TU's case (one way or the other when it comes to the whole "association" thing). On February 15 2013 06:05 TestSubject893 wrote: He was scum hunting (thought corazon was scum), and asked a fair question.Also this post + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote: hmmm, Corazon hasnt been on my mind to be honest; I think someone made a case (?Geript IIRC) - which I guess is suspect, knowing that that OO killed WoS no matter alignment. I can look into it; but I still want more information from zarepath first. this SK dilemna has clouded the thread somewhat (deserving though albeit) so things like my questions to zarepath are buried. Taking a break regardless But it was a misinterpretation as stated below. On February 15 2013 06:52 Mocsta wrote: (Test. i wasnt diverting from corazon... i asked questions to zarepath that had a chance to be buried, it was about bringing them back to the surface) Keep it Simple As I said before I dont see the point spending time talking about my town reads; im trying to scum hunt. As for your question about TestUser case; it doesnt come down to my opinion. Its up to you to convince TestUser of your alignment. | ||
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If the case is based purely on voters on Glurio; than yes, I think it is founded on a fallacy. The votes were so split; but I believe it was ?Sn0_Man? that already explained by vote count analysis of this lynch is essentially useless. It was too spread out, and any takings from it is based on a "hunch". you need a flip to make associations; but this was all covered in NMM 33 if you recall. | ||
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1. Get used to losing sleep over mafia. Some even dream of mafia haha. Welcome to the club. 2. If u r tired as u indicate. I would contest your scum slip was genuine and is easily explained by a lapse in concentration. I think the counter of scum dont break the rules is weak at best and desparate at worst. 3. U r clutching at straws. Fact no one in general is talking. I find it convenient u choose to ignore my posts asking for activity and discussion Nice try warbaby and enjoy the scum dreams | ||
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If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full. But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred. P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip. Do u always cherry pick what you respond to? | ||
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Mafia LIX we asked for shorter cycle. Normal Mini 4 I think we asked for shorter cycle. And those are my two most recent games. I think even nomination mafia we asked for shorter cycle IIRC - but that is on going so shouldnt discuss. Everything you say is based off poorly reasoned arguments, and rash conclusions founded upon no merit. Go to sleep; I am not bothering continuing discourse with you this cycle. | ||
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However; if you want to assume corazon and I are a team; I am going to have to stop you right there.. Firstly, the only reason association was brought up was because you were looking into corazon; and found it odd I did not want to concentrate on him. This has now been explained twice On February 15 2013 16:19 Mocsta wrote: Again, why is that scum-alignment indicative? You are working off associations founded upon assumptions. Mafia is about flipping one player and then making the associations.If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you. The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest. The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed) Lets work through the logic. Corazon flips town; then what? The entire association case falls apart; unless you are warbaby, then I become de facto scum. Anyone that targets warbaby is scum right... Corazon flips scum; again, then what? How does my interaction today prove I am in a scum team? (Simply, that evidence on it own does not; and fuck me if I am going to have my first mislynch under this condition) The same logic applies with me as the lynch candidate. Fact: One interaction does not make two people scum. If you were not 'essentially' confirmed town; I could say you and Sn0_Man are a scum team because of the glowing review you gave him.... But I didn't (and neither did others), because that is an illogical stance to assume - just like the situation present. Secondly, the only reason this item of association was re-raised was due to the misrepresentation of warbaby On February 15 2013 13:32 warbaby wrote: You say here that you haven't been thinking of Corazon much, but then when I search for "Corazon" if your full filter, I get 42 hits! Do you want to know why this is an example of misrepresentation?
In reality; I did not mention corazon much throughout Day1. Just as there are others that did not catch my attention. This is the way of a game of forum-mafia. I can go into anyone's filter and find people they have not questioned. What is the point, and why is this alignment indicative - without a red flip | ||
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On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote: Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed. If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full. But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred. P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip. Do u always cherry pick what you respond to? On February 15 2013 22:19 TestSubject893 wrote: WB is trying to converse, but you and Corazon just keep insisting that we should not be. TestUser, can you please clarify who "we" is. I assume you imply town; if so, I am genuinely surprised by this; as I thought I was a proponent of town continuing scum hunting. Further, I am confused by the statement in general, even though it is written plain and simple. Are you inferring: that you disagree with the above comments I directed to warbaby? (Mocsta was addressing WB in this post) I personally think that WB is asking reasonable questions (especially for a newbie game). The fact that no one is answering him is concerning to me. If you think his questions are reasonable fine; I believe I addressed a majority of them regardless. However: What is concerning to me TestUser; is that you do not seem to notice (or case) warbaby is actually the one who blatantly ignores any criticisms/comments directed his way. I simply do not understand how when two people react, and exhibit the same behaviour; one is reasonable, the other becomes 'something else'? | ||
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as for number two: I think its between mandalor or sylencia I have not liked mandalor most of the game (identified him in my last will) and this cycle asked him to produce some reads (with no response so far). I treated Sylencia as blue read early on (same reason as Sn0_Man).. but. considering his play has not picked up @ all i am now getting concerned. Even this cycle; his play is still *all* blue talk. I must admit i am starting to think its a ploy; because I certainly have not seen a strong scum read out of him - even though I asked him for one already. Between the two, I am more likely to suspect Sylencia. Because, he has shown he is still actively lurking; just selectively picking and choosing what he comments on. (this is a problem due to sharing no strong reads) On the other hand mandalor I ?think? said he was busy; which is a pretty convenient excuse, but I guess with the filter activity might be adding up? My thoughts on course of action; pressure both, figure out if mandalor is lying about being busy; and get Sylencia to disseminate some reads. Will be able to re-assess from there. | ||
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On February 15 2013 23:47 zarepath wrote: Okay, looked at WB's supposed scum slip -- it comes from within a hypothetical scenario, so I don't see it as necessarily being a scum slip. If WB is scum, we should be able to tell from reasons other than him literally telling us he is scum. (Not sure if I am allowed to say this, because it might make you and I scum zarepath) but... Agreed; I dont build a case due to scum slips. Its simply icing on the cake. | ||
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Then the OO issue happened; and everything else went on hold. To answer your question: the cake is pretty much baked. Your current thoughts on Sylencia/Mandalor as reads? | ||
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On February 16 2013 00:51 Sn0_Man wrote: What I want to know is why does Sevryn get such an utter free ride from so many people (especially mocsta/Cora)? Sure people mention his name when they call our low contribution members, but when its down to who might be scum, his name never even pops up... Sev is null for me. I do want to see more from him; but I prioritize mandalor/sylencia over him. - as stated before. Next cycle we are down to what 9 players? pressuring 3 people simultaneously is 33% of the playing list. I would contemplate an RNG lynch on them Considering they aren't giving us anything to work with. | ||
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+ my other game deadline is tomorrow & I am a lynch candidate, so thats my focus with the limited time i have sorry.Feel free to send questions my way; and will answer when i get an opportunity. | ||
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I am not sure why you have the confidence to make these types of posts; before the final hour deadline to be honest. | ||
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Mocsta N2: Last Will TestSubject893... sorry for misspelling your name. The OP filter lists "TestUser893" Little Things I did not like during Day2/Night2 Day2
Musings on above Lack of contribution from Mandalor/Sylencia/Sevryn + Show Spoiler + Many have called out all three of these multiple times to no avail. Sevryn, yes the contributions are pretty weak when I read through the filter; but, in my opinion is more to go with than Mandalor/Sylencia. I read him as a small voice that is trying to be heard and being ignored. Now is the chance, ask direct questions and re-assess that little voice. Mandalor I just don't like, and haven't liked any of his contributions all game. I can support a policy lynch on him; as it is now clear he is not going to reciprocate to our questions. I mean, fuck, he's can't be that busy. Sylencia - Has more contributions than Mandalor by far; yet are they actually scum hunting? Day1 I found the logic posts useful. But since then, nothing has changed; and this just REEKS of trying to contribute without contributing. Like Mandalor is ignoring the pressure. I can also support a policy lynch here. If Mandalor/Sylencia are town; surely they would realise we are close to MYLO and would realise they have to contribute more. BUT THEY HAVEN'T. Very suspicious. As such, if they continue to not reciprocate by 24-36hrs; I would suggest a policy lynch. Lack of pro-active scum hunting from Sn0_Man/zarepath + Show Spoiler + I feel good enough about your play so play to think you guys are my best town reads (aside from TestSubject). With that status; I was expecting you guys to lead more discussion during Day2. (Sn0_Man Night2 suggestion to hold off and re-read was very reasonable). You two really need to promote more discussion this coming cycle; share your scum reads, create pressure and judge without fallacy. (i.e. go back to Day1 play) warbaby is still just copying others ideas - never applying original thought + Show Spoiler + This guy is still just rubbing me the wrong way. I have been told in the past; when two people butt heads majorly they typically both town and just being stubborn. I want to believe this, BUT... My problem is; every time he walks away, he just grabs ideas others have come up (e.g. myself/TestSubject/Sn0_Man etc) and makes all these posts as if he is super pro-town or something. Look at his recent "summary" posts on lurkers.. they have ZERO analysis. I can go into Sylencia and Sevryn filter and do the same thing.. its classic contributing WITHOUT contributing. We are one step away from MYLO, so I am willing to give warbaby a fair (unbiased) chance based on his scum hunt pressure play. cDgCorazon instantly tries to divert attention away from Geript NK + Show Spoiler + This is a little thing. I just didn't like the way he instantly tried to separate himself from the NK by saying the emotional appeal: "I am town it cant be me". This is a slight scum tell to me. Why? Because if TestSubject893 was not pushing him so hard; I don't think cDgCorazon would have chosen to react that way when he made the post. I think he would have held more self-confidence and applied a more logical mindset by providing fact. I did not like the way cDgCorazon handled himself when discussing the Geript NK. It is not a strong scum indicator though; so am going to re-read through the TestSubject893 pressure and see whether I like corazon defense anymore. warbaby continuing to "contribute" + Show Spoiler + WTF are those posts he made before the 1hr deadline. "I am so pro-town - I make summary posts on lurkers" Where is the analysis of actoins? All I read is "RB claim is fake" where is the justification "Puts a little effort into this post" .. I can say the same for many of his and others.. why is that scummy? These summary posts are clear attempts to contribute WITHOUT contributing. Granted town and scum can do this.. but tackle it on with having the confidence to post before the 1hr deadline; and it doesnt look good for warbaby. warbaby, I repeat.. I recognise we are close to MYLO; and if alive, I am not going to tunnel you Day3. I will be paying very close attention to your scum hunting techniques however, and expect to see more detailed *and accurate* analysis from you. TL;DR I will be focusing pressure on the three lurkers; and actively paying attention to warbaby | ||
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You know I have asked several times now for a top scum read and why. Sylencia you have never delivered; and when you come out of hibernation its only to comment on what is matters to you... ##Vote:Sylencia In the scum game I played; we got the RB to block me.. to get town cred... i can see this happening here. (will be out doing house chores most of the day, be back in 6 hours) | ||
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On February 17 2013 10:59 cDgCorazon wrote: There are three scum, just in case you didn't know...WB cannot be your only scumread. On phone And why are you so certain? | ||
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On February 17 2013 11:31 cDgCorazon wrote: Because a set-up with 8 town and 5 non-town would be really imbalanced, and a set-up with 10 town and 3 non-town would also be ridiculously imbalanced. On phone: This is silly poo corazon. There have been several 13 player newbie games, each with 3 scum and never SK. You just said 10 town, 3 non-town is unbalanced... y? | ||
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On February 17 2013 13:15 Sevryn wrote: I made a post about the other two lurkers my times I'm able to be on are a little different than most people but that doesnt mean I'm hardcore lurking mandalor is the lurkiest but syl is the scummiest IMO so if you want to smoke somebody out why woudlnt you go for the least active this seems to me almost like an OMGUS from the previous night and my posts about you. WB that is the deffinition of sheeping voting with someone without giving your own reasons I know you said you thought I was the scummiest but your whole case is cherry picking my filter I have made good constructive posts and you have just ignored them. you want me to go through your whole filter and post all the zero content posts? right now my current scum team read is 1.syl 2.Cora 3.wb in that order Sevryn, i said before I think you're the voice that tries to stand up in the crowd and is then ignored. However, posts like the above; make me think you're just a lurker and make me realise how much you have blended in. When I read the above I think, you are either defending yourself; or trying to contribute without contributing. Regardless it is not helping town scum hunt. Step up and pressure your reads. If your #1 read is sylencia.. lead the way and show us why you think he is scummy. | ||
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I said before, a case shows more about the maker, than the recipient. Is the above your case for warbaby? Is that the best you can muster? Why is this a contribution of merit compared to posts from Mandalor or Sevryn? Why should we believe you were even RB'd twice? You pointed out you said you were not blue, so i cant see why scum would RB you in the first place... and then why the heck would a JK target you over TestSubject. - All you have returned to us is WIFOM. This smells *really* fishy to me. I want some answers to the above. Let me remind you On February 17 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote: ##Vote:Sylencia | ||
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As for. Sevryn I do not care for his last post. But the point u raise can be applied to many. And By itself is not scummy. Need to tie to other behaviour | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Would you like to discuss the set-up more then? Not particularly, I don't think it is of value for todays scum hunt. I just think you're making conclusions on setup that is both misleading; and on par with association flips. Sylencia produced some discussion, but it was all WIFOM - and thus pointless. Is there actually a conclusion? On February 17 2013 15:41 Sylencia wrote: The introduction of the SK in this game will be balanced by having either a higher number of blues and/or stronger mafia roles. (Rhetorical) How is what you(Corazon) produced about setup; helping the scum hunt? (Question to all) Is Sylencia making comments like above aiding the scum hunt? | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:27 Sevryn wrote: how about your reads? who do you think the scum team is? you think its all lurkers? Whoah whoah, take a step back sunshine. You're not in a position to be questioning others. It works like this Mr.Lurker. We question you and your motives. OR You build a case on someone, that we pick to shreds to find out if you are bullshitting. The "case" you wrote on Sylencia is pretty hard to read; and reads as a summary post to me. I want to see some analysis on why the things you are raising have to be from scum; and not from town. | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:29 cDgCorazon wrote: If you are wondering what my reads are, you're not paying attention to the game at all... You bringing out that case today; or focusing on the lurkers? | ||
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On February 17 2013 15:48 cDgCorazon wrote: WB and I are getting really impatient as well. Is this a blatant scum slip or something? You accuse me all game of associating with you (when its clear I haven't been).. and now.. you're suddenly chummy with a guy you have been 'chasing' all game? WTF... | ||
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On February 17 2013 15:41 Sylencia wrote: Because unlike Sevryn who firstly gets asked thoughts on specific players - in which he then responds, I don't piggyback on the opportunity to claim X lurker is scum. Does this mean Sevryn is scum? Possibly. Mandalor hasn't been around since the start of Day 2. Nothing is really known about him other than the fact he's pretty much full AFK at this point in time. As for my case on Warbaby, if you think it's a weak case then so be it - I see there's enough for me to vote for him from what I've read. Regarding my double roleblock - why would I double roleblock over roleblocking a person and then myself if I was scum? 1) It confirms there's actually a roleblocker in the game, 2) it 'confirms' me as town a hell of a lot more than double roleblock ever would. Given the fact you've all been suspicious of me for a while, would I really bring even more attention to myself as scum? No, but these points don't really have much weight behind them since you don't know my role. #1 - I find it ironic you state Sevyrn does not speak till spoken to... because.. I thought many of your posts were originating from others ideas/statements. i.e. I cant recall you introducing something unique into the fray; other than the RB claims.... #2 - I have seen you make WAY better cases than what did for warbaby. To me, the only point you raised was that warbaby scum slipped. Sorry, I am not going to vote someone for a fuckn scum slip.. it has to be backed up with analysis of motives. Where is this? You have provided a bunch of analysis when it comes to setup speculation... all of which amount to NO CONCLUSION. What I see is a bunch of posts taking no firm stance; and in the rare situation you do take a stance, its with no detailed explanation of thought process. #3 - I dont know what to make of the RB. And mulling over it is WIFOM... if you are town it *MUST* be proven by how you scum hunt; not by a RB claim that may or may not have occurred. Stop suggesting you are town because of the RB claim(s); and then continue to not produce the goods when it comes to scum hunting. | ||
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On February 17 2013 19:29 Sevryn wrote: so sharing your reads and answering questions is something people who are on 24/7 dont have to do? Touche, Do you always answer questions with questions? Cos thats scummy as Mr. Lurker. How about this.. we are near MYLO; and its pretty clear the candidates for this lynch is You, Sylencia and Mandalor. So how about stop being a smart arse, and start to contribute; nothing you wrote on Sylencia suggests why he is mafia; it is simply a collection of his posts. Again, scummy behaviour. If you could reply to that post, I am sure its not hard to reply to the content of what I wrote instead..... | ||
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Wtf.... No lynch is meant to be cast in final hours if no candidate is clear.. What you are suggesting is scummy as fuck. How many times have we had to ask for a second scum read - with some justification.... My vote on u remains | ||
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Just goes to show. More contributions from him that go no where. For someone that is as keen to speculate on setup as him. He shoulda known its a last resort.. I think he is starting to cave from the pressure | ||
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whats ya time deadline for sno and zare to post before finding it stinky? | ||
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how long are u willing to wait before starting to think their lack of activity is suspicious? | ||
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However i am going to need detailed feedback from them in say the next 12 to 16 hours...otherwise to me. Its suspicious the lack of contributoons given the severity of a mislynch. | ||
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Just yeah its really odd sno and zare havent commented. I agree though sno>>zare based in contributions. As mentioned before. I think another 12hours is very reasonable to expect something meaningful. If no response i can only surmise scum is happy with how everything is proceeding. That doesnt make the lurkers clear though. Im certain scum exists within the three lurkers. | ||
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Talk god dammit (other than corazon and maybe warbaby). ========= [fluff] - Cos I am going nuts here with the lack of activity 1. Syvern 2. Sylencia 3. Mandalor 4. Sylencia 5. zarepath 6. Sylencia RNG = 2... awesome, dont have to change me vote. 5 | ||
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On February 18 2013 16:39 Sylencia wrote: When we should no lynch properly? It is clearly the right time to do it now. Call me scum for talking about setup speculation here but so far what we have is 1 Serial Killer 1 Mafia Roleblocker (only confirmed by me, take it as you wish) 2 Mafia / Mafia Roles 1 Tracker 4 Town 4 Town / Blue Again, take this as you wish but I have already claimed I'm not blue. That puts it to 5 Vanilla and 3 Unknown. That doesnt make sense.. we have had 3 VTs flip; 1 SK and 1 blue. *IF* you flipped VT; would that not leave 4 vanilla flipped... you wrote 5 above... i dont think it was a typo as you adjusted unknown to 3. If you going to setup speculate.. why are you inserting erroneous statements such as the above? Quite misleading if you ask me. Due to what we have seen from the setup: Nosy Neighbour doesn't affect much, it's still essentially just a green role. No one else has claimed being Roleblocked. That pretty much rules out there being a Jailkeeper. A Vigilante would've killed me by now. That leaves there to be either a Watcher or a Veteran that are likely candidates to be the other blue role. If you no lynch with a Watcher in town, and assuming they were watching Test last night because it's the obvious thing to do, they can very well watch another night on a potential target, reveal who they saw the previous night during the final hour of tonight, and if they remain alive - they can potentially reveal another. With a veteran, we stay in the same 5:3 situation but with another confirmed town member, which still leaves us in pretty much the same situation as we are in now, but with a confirmed town giving out a vote for another day. As an aside: to all I fuckn hope somebody "watched" testsubject last night, but so far, no one has stepped up. The problem is.. if somebody stepped up now and said they are the watcher, and wanted to "judge reactions" I would have thought its too late to automatically believe. When TestSubject caught OO, he presented it within an hour. If we believe the "watcher" and it leads to a mislynch, and then scum NK; we are pretty much fucked. Setup speculation The only reason I can think of the "watching" outcome being held is if.. multiple parties visited TestSubject....(i.e. killer + ?nosy neighbour? or whatever else) This is really grasping at straws though; and I prefer to work with what I know = scum hunt. | ||
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On February 18 2013 17:10 Sn0_Man wrote: I only mentioned a no lynch because we COULD BE AT MYLO and if we keep voting like utter retards (see: first vote) then maybe a no-lynch is preferable. However, I don't think we are at no lynch stage yet. For example, I think I'll be voting Sylencia today, although I admit I haven't finished my "Filter dive" This is my before-bed post don't expect answers for another indeterminately long period. Thats for making an appearance; I hope your vote is submitted at least a few hours before the deadline - preferably more. I think it is essential for votes to be transparent; and void of confusion. I think this will prevent mafia making a play to affect votes. | ||
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On February 18 2013 21:13 zarepath wrote: I like the discussion so far. Can you point out what you like? its been pretty frustrating for me.... | ||
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On February 18 2013 22:40 Sylencia wrote: Also, as for my double roleblock claim, why is it that only Mocsta, Sevryn and Warbaby have commented about it (all three have chosen to say I'm lying here too), and everyone else has chosen to somewhat ignore it altogether? Because we are the only three commenting in general.. perhaps? | ||
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On February 18 2013 22:30 Sylencia wrote: Firstly, Thanks for taking the time to review the filter.<Insert case> I dunno how corazon will feel about this Sevryn case considering: On February 18 2013 16:59 cDgCorazon wrote: If you don't make a read within 12 hours on someone other than Sevryn and Mandalor, you're getting my vote. WB won't be acceptable. I will give my 2c anyways. The one point you raised I agree with: Sevyrn doesn't answer direct questions, he 'flips' them back I agree, this is a scummy thing to do; but by itself is not scummy. I dont think the other behaviours you identified are scummy; rather... I think most of the points raised are OMGUS, or taking the least possible scenario as the basis for being scum. e.g. "Sevryn pointed out scum RB.. because I only mentioned town JK" If anything, he picked up on an erroneous comment from you and brought it to the fore. i.e.the logic you were sprouting does not assume a scum RB exists... considering you have been 'roleblocked twice' this is indeed convenient. - and something I did not pick up on till you quoted his post now... | ||
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On February 18 2013 22:52 Sylencia wrote: In regards to what you've posted in the second statement, I didn't post that, that was TestUser? Or are you suggesting that I'm a scum roleblocker now, and that I've been jailkept twice? It would potentially hold up if TestUser didn't die last night. My bad, I assumed the quote was yours hmmm; well regardless the logic was erroneous; to be valid it needs to consider either RB or JK can exist. I dont see how that makes Sevryn scum; if anything, its a townie trait to pick up on fine details like that. If he was scum; and if a scum RB did exist... wouldnt he just let the comment go, so people auto assume RB is not in play? So not suggesting whether the RB claims are genuine or not. And not suggesting you been JK > RB. I dont know, its all WIFOM. | ||
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On February 18 2013 22:52 Sylencia wrote: Essentially most of my reads come from players within any player I've been banned from talking about, I'm kind of shut out of doing anything there. I don't see how personally. Lets take your theory; that there is 3 scum. Three lurkers = Mandalor, Sevryn and yourself. Town thinks scum lies in the lurkers. You think you are not scum. Henceforth; at least one scum resides in the non-lurkers. I believe the intention of corazon post, was to figure out who that "at least one" scum was. Now... that I have to spell this out to you, is a concern.... | ||
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So let me get this straight.
LOL... so let me get this right then...
*Clap* Full marks for creativity. You give me too much respect if you think I can muster a plan like that. OOO and to add to all that busing and elaborate plans; scum have decided to fully reveal themselves by unanimously voting YOU; even though its not game over with a NK... lol right... Nice try Sylencia. On February 17 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote: ##Vote:Sylencia | ||
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I can't help but feel the only reason u spent time on Sylencia is because he made a case on you. Prove to us you are here to scum hunt, and make a case on someone other than Mandalor. My vote can still change, so don't think for a second you are off the hook. Also, Sylencia raised a valid point I want addressed. Direct questions your way tend to get flipped. So I am going to re-ask you... Do you think u have scum hunted and why are your contributions better than the other lurkers | ||
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On February 19 2013 02:32 warbaby wrote: 2) Sn0_man, Zarepath, and Mandalor are getting a free ride so far D3. Mocsta asked when this would start to get stinky -- I'd say right about now is when I crinkle up my nose and start considering lynching a real lurker 4) How would you guys feel about lynching mandalore instead, since he's currently lurking harder than the other two? In sylencia's credit, he won't go down without a fight If I were a scum in his shoes I'd just give up, lol. #2 - Agreed, we are 8 hrs from lynch. It is unacceptable for all three...But this is stating what we already said before. #4 - I could swing to mandalor considering his input this cycle is non-existent. + i havnt liked any of his contributions all game. But I think it is a weak heuristic to assume scum give up => Sylencia is clear. I ask instead; has Sylencia actually put up a fight worth discussing? It has taken until he has received multiple votes AND requests before entering the fray with a case - a pretty weak one at that as well. I think before I could seriously consider a vote swap to Mandalor; I would want Sylencia to provide some evidence to back up why he thinks you, me and sevryn are a scum team - without being full of OMGUS. | ||
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On February 19 2013 02:44 cDgCorazon wrote: At this point they're just bussing each other. Could make sense; but I think its best to save bus theory for post flip - otherwise its all assumptions/associations. | ||
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On February 19 2013 04:48 Sevryn wrote: you dont think my current case is better than the glurio case? the vote is similar but thats how i phrase my vote when I am pretty sure someone is scum but whale cum back sno English active lurker.. | ||
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there isnt even a conclusion. (i.e. vote) You are my strongest town read; but... .this is really lack luster (you are accusing syvern of WIFOM; but what you produced is WIFOM itself... now you are sugegstin scum is writing his cases or somethign?? The real qusetion is.. have u seen anything on sylencia that makes you say TOWN? | ||
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On February 18 2013 21:13 zarepath wrote: I should be back for the day. Catching up, filter reading, etc. *Friendly Reminder* WHERE THE FUCK ARE YOU!! Its less than 5hrs to lynch.... (1) Who are you voting for & why (2) Do you think it is acceptable to be absent for this long a period when we are potentially entering MYLO | ||
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Dont forget about zarepath, he hasnt chipped in. and Sn0_Man seems to have disappeared again? | ||
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On February 19 2013 07:16 Sn0_Man wrote: To add: was my vote/play this weekend lazy as can be? Yes. This was a long weekend (today aka monday still a holiday) and weekends I don't prioritize mafia. Maybe that isn't acceptable to you but that is how I play. If the game is still going and I'm alive, I'll be back in full tomorrow. Yeah that's fine. I can understand weekends. And the last 24hrs is due to long weekend. Km I don't understand ya point with watcher and godfather. But its nothing to do with this lynch, so will ask during night if needed. I can't believe zarepath has not commented | ||
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On February 19 2013 07:45 Sn0_Man wrote: In this game, the godfather evades all watchers/trackers. I'm assuming this means that if scum had a godfather and used him to execute kills nobody would be able to trace it (aka the godfather would be the one to kill TS). Noted & after checking OP agreed; didn't realise that. | ||
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Have a meeting penned in for about 3 hrs around the deadline. | ||
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I wish you had made that final post. As an aside; corazon, we already had 2 replacements this game; I agree Mandalor shoulda subbed out; but i dunno what the chances woulda been of scoring somebody? | ||
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I see two courses of action (1) Everybody clam up; so scum have to figure out who they want to shoot - hopefully they hit a ?vet? OR (2) We be completely transparent and everyone post their reads; that way , if anyone dies it doesnt matter cos we can all follow through with the same lynch plan next day? Thoughts? | ||
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On February 19 2013 10:52 zarepath wrote: zarepath, this is not the first time you have been lazy with reading content; and formed leads founded on misrepresented information. (e.g. DT fake case)When Mocsta was going off on OO, he was quite certain that OO was SK. ============= In regards to OO -> SK On February 14 2013 10:05 Sylencia wrote: I was roleblocked last night. On February 14 2013 10:17 Mocsta wrote: Im taking a break; thsi is seriously fucked up (1) Who did mafia actually target? (2) 2nd hit: Vig hit or SK hit; On February 14 2013 12:10 ObviousOne wrote: You sure you guys don't want any more help, then? If I'm the SK you have a guaranteed not-scum lynch putting you that much closer to MYLO/LYLO with no real information. I mean, I just want to know if I can fuck off if you're not going to read any more cases for me. If you will read them, they will come. On February 14 2013 12:17 Mocsta wrote: The problem remains (1) You are scum and made the kill but u said you are vig and made the kill; so if we said.. you are scum... who the fuck killed geript.. either way, sk or scum which => lynch (2) You are vig and made the kill ... (3) You are SK and made the kill ... I am going to explain this one last time. When I was responding to OO, I was addressing his posts/finds which were fixated on SK vs vig. It was clear he wasnt vig.. which only left SK. It wasn't till I took a breather that I realised scum was also a possibility; and I stipulated it above. =========== He was also quick to suggest Syl's fake role claiming. Sylencia was the one that proposed the fake roleblock. On February 14 2013 10:24 Sylencia wrote: - Town JK: Since I'm being seen as scum, might've chosen me to block a shot but why would the scum team ever choose me to shoot in that spot, since everyone is already looking at me. Unless they thought I was a framer, this seems unlikely. This is from his first analysis of the roleblock - which I assume is true now... which means we have at least one scum power role. ============ And ifyou look at the first half of D1, he accused/suggested that an incredibly large number of different people were scummy. Who? My targets on D1 were clear; I found warbaby and Geript suspicious. warbaby has really lifted his play the last cycle; and was one of the few people in this town that gave a shit... Im not going to lynch a guy who actually gave a shit when we could be in MYLO. As I said at the start zarepath; there have been numerous accounts of you chasing false leads based on nothing.... By itself, I could think mislead/confused townie. If I include things such as the fake DT case that went no where; your continual promises to filter dive and produce reads - but never follow; and your lack of activity when recognising the importance of the last lynch.... i think townie read is starting to evaporate very quickly in the heat of the australian summer. | ||
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Setup Speculation Take with a grain of salt http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=C9++ This game is C9++, the page linked is for normal setup with JK/Vig/Mason etc. This is the same probabilities, jsut replacing the blue roles (I believe, only host knows for certain). Now, with Sylencia death; we know there is an RB; and we know there is SK. ========= + Show Spoiler [2 scum team] + If we assume team is 2 scum + SK, The two options are OR 2 man scum team is impossible based on the RB claim. ========= The 3 man scum setups with SK = If setup is "T", then there are 6 blue letters rolled => approx 3-6 blues rolled. I am not certain how the host handles multiple letter rolls (like VV; as all vig are one-shot) OR TTT = 2 Goons + RB, SK If setup is "TTT" then there are 4 blue letters rolled => approx 2-4 blues rolled. (based on the 4 VTs flipping.. this situation is more likely) As 3-6 Blues, indicates 3-6 VTs; which is starting to look unlikely based on flips So far the flips: 4 VT, 1 Blue, 1 SK Lets assume 13 players 3 scum 1 sk 2-4 blues 5-7 VTs This leaves us now with: 1-3 blues and 3-1 VTs. ========= What is the point Based on likelihood and Sylencia RB claim; I believe we are dealing with 2 Goons + 1 RB. Secondly, there is a chance there are 3 VTs, and only 1 Blue left (who may not even be a vet) I think we need to shut up shop this cycle, and not let scum figure out who *ISN'T* a vet. | ||
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On February 19 2013 11:39 zarepath wrote: Not officially, but you don't say things like "Why not, you worried I'll find out you're scum?" to promote a good town environment day 1. This isn't a case; this is backing up my claim that Mocsta suggests is a false one. I think you're getting completely muddled by early day1 banter to promote discussion. Its how the game works; just like my comment to Sn0_Man. If you think that post to him is indicative of me having a firm scum read on him 2hrs into the game; you're grasping as straws MAJORLY. warbaby was the first guy I genuinely followed up with; as he was my first *actual* read. The rest of what you posted (other than Geript) is foreplay... and you know it. | ||
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Actuallly what you quoted on Geript was foreplay. I later had a genuine read on Geript; but for whatever reason you were only focused on play from the frist 12 or so hours - so didnt include it. | ||
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Can understand the pain. Hurts when u think one of your own has been actively hindering your thought processes all game. :; But yes the SK slip was bad in the con text that I knew he wasn't scum...but it was genuinely based on TS being solely focused on SK/vig Just remember I actively lead town to each lynch.. It was by no means an easy win, I don't think if sno/zare delurked over the weekend I would have been high for suspicion and I still had war baby I could push. | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:26 Promethelax wrote: I think you'll find that Mocsta is in fact very loud. Which is different than being very good at mafia. The way to tell his town play from his scum play is simply his goal. When he is town he tries to make things go right and works with others he thinks are town. As scum he goes just a little more insane. Insane in the membrane Insane in the brain Agree on town tell for sure. Dunno what the scum one infers but will take it anyway hajha I will say I find scum much more enjoyable to play | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:30 cDgCorazon wrote: Bleh, one more thing: Scum, why'd you kill Geript N1? Its all in scum at In case lazy. I thought he was sleeper analyst like acid when I was last scum Took him out before he got momentum During day1 he was the only person I felt i had to proof read posts before sending.. So full credit to him | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:31 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys had it a lot easier than you could have though. So much lurk. Also I was convinced Sev was scum and was going to tunnel the shit out of him until I could get enough to prove it 100%, but then SK took care of me for you guys. In any case I think I have some of how the game (and maybe player meta) works now so I'm going to try signing up for any game that'll take me. I'm HOOKED, gentlemen. Edit: Also, just remembered something. What was the deal with the Sylencia RB? Disagree completely. Sevryn and at stages mandalor were on the block MASSIVELY at many stages especially due to lurking. Town was all over them. Sylencia didn't fall my accident. Town voted him based on defends... But the only reason he had to make a defends was primarily due to my pressure SK was hunting scum n1 and could a taken out anyone. Agree on before he basically became a vig. Just remember its easy to sit in at and say u have insurmountable evidence. That doesn't mean u can campaign a vote. I did not play a perfect game by any means. And yes. The overall lurking worked in my favour. But u guys gotta be honest with yourselves with this one. On day3 u had 2 out of 3 scum on the block and in my opinion there were many reasons to call sylencia town. I didn't force everyone to vote sylencia.... | ||
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Until I setup glurio. U were there WoS. The major thing in this game is (mainly for war baby) is Priorities are: Establish innocence 2. Scum hunt 3. Be pro town Many of my contributions were 3. Aligned and its really easy to fake.. I don't believe I made a case the whole game. (Other than writing sevryns lol)great pick up their Sn0 | ||
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Well newbies games are for sweingnwhat works what doesn't Hopefully this explains why policy lurker lynch sucks Its just a medium for enabling discussion but shouldn't replace scum hunting | ||
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On February 20 2013 05:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Glurio set himself up; his play was scummy as hell, but yes, you're right, my biggest mistake was pussing out Day 1 and not changing my vote to Sevryn earlier. U need to read the thread again... It was scum who initiated glurio He actually did alright and was confident enough to push his own reads whether right or wrong. He did not set himself up at all... If u read scum qt it will be clear lol | ||
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In my opinion u are scum hunting Grabbing three guys and RNG them is lynch kurker policy to me and is stupid. P.s. RNG sucks majorly. That was just me trolling at start. Sorry. | ||
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U became too untrustworthy for me from that point on | ||
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Def worth a read. | ||
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Hmmm well Ima be taking a break from Mafia. good luck to all those migrating to non newbies. The lurking is just as hard over there and can really shit u to tears. I'm obviously still known for terrible reads but can say from being Mafia the only time I felt under pressure was when when the SK case came out. So what I am saying is. Many of the things in was spewing which looked like contributions were actually not. When I was setting up ppl I took worse case scenarios to paint ppl red, even though early game I was advocating looking at both sides to discern bad townie from scum. I think if overall u guys challenged ppls reads more.. Would have lead to more pressure. in particular sevryn would have disintegrated. I think town severely lacked that critical thought and for what ever reason had a tendency to just ignore posts with logic they didn't agree with. This is not conducive towards good scum hunting With this new in game experience. Next time I roll town I am going to make a habit to break down ppl logic when presented, as though bad logic is not indicative of scum. The follow up pressure I think can lead to slips and back tracking. With all that said. We were very lucky mandalor came through with a hero vote to not be mod killed. I think in general though his activity level was unacceptable regardless of IRL issues and he should been chopped much earlier. Best of luck for future games | ||
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On February 20 2013 08:55 Sn0_Man wrote: if the obs QT has their leading scum candidate at MYLO as our only remaining blue role and for most of the game (although not at the very end) I'm the only person on every town list around then I'm content with my play. I know I'm not the best at discerning who is scum, but If I can prove myself town early and have stuff to work with I feel like my contribution to town is acceptable. I didn't see a way to make town play decently, so I got super lazy. I'm aware this isn't good town play. I still don't see a way I could have won the game (esp. not with this setup). I am repeating what you alluded to above, but wanted to state it more explicitly . Town win as a collective. One person stepping up "being established as innocent" does not mean town as a collective is doing anything right. Though you suggest you didnt have the tools to be a great scum hunter; or town motivator... you still had the capability to read the thread and pressure SOMEBODY in general. That was lacking from your play (long weekend or not); and as the main confirmed town read I believe it was your responsibility to create a sense a direction for town - whether right or wrong. (and me to fight you )For example, when TestSubject became "confirmed town" he tried to create a direction, and was promptly killed.. though you were "near confirmed" town, you were never a threat enough to be considered seriously for the NK.. thats a HUGE problem. | ||
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On February 20 2013 08:32 marvellosity wrote: hey, stick around Mocsta. I mean no disrepect to GM, because I loved the concept for Nomination Mafia. But the reality of the lurking in that game..really demotivated me from considering another mafia game for a bit; especially in conjunction with the lurking in this I only joined this game because Acro asked me; and had the intention to troll (due to being above XP cap). (Hence all the RNG stuff gaiz But when it was clear Mandalor couldnt commit, I had to step up a bit (started with me setting up Glurio); + I really enjoy playing scum whether insane or not  So in short.. I will be keeping to play mafia; and I can see I am visibly improving. Just need a couple game break | ||
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On February 20 2013 09:38 JacobStrangelove wrote: Also the sly lynch was unanimous, should have been alarm bells. So was the SK lynch I thought Syl was put into a "damned if you do; damned it you don't" situation of being forced to make a case on someone active; when in fact, he made a case on someone he thought was scum (and was right). Town knowing the severity of the lynch situation; should have really questioned Sylencia defense/cases with more scrutinty. Instead I was the first (and only... since I wrote Sevryn cases for him) one to respond; and obviously manipulated Sylecnia points against him. This could have been easily refuted - in my opinion. | ||
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And agree, cora case *SHOULD* have been released - and a town Mocsta woulda said let it come out; scum Mocsta said dont do it!!! (with Arnie voice-over) | ||
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On February 20 2013 10:08 JacobStrangelove wrote: Lol greatest scum plan of all time. I would have let you live OO would have been so fun. In fairness; we were just mulling over possiblities. I dont think it actually would have transpired; it was like a plan b If you cant be arsed reading the QT. it involved "submitting no KP" and claiming I was shot to fake a veteran claim & bussing mandalor because he was AFK But yes, I was still happy VE shat on the idea; was a good reality check. | ||
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On February 20 2013 10:08 Acrofales wrote: Also, Kita pm'd me that there isn't a host for the next newbie available I can set it up, but I will be gone for the next 2 weekends. If there's a cohost available for the weekend, I'll set up another game. Don't have time to work out a setup, so it'll be more standard Im taking a break from playing; so I could co-host if needed. Is it just vote count + maybe writing flavour? | ||
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On February 20 2013 10:10 cDgCorazon wrote: The case was on Zare. I said it before I looked at his filter, and I started to write up a case, but I didn't find enough conclusive evidence. IIRC in-game, you suggested you had a case ready to unload. | ||
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On February 20 2013 10:16 cDgCorazon wrote: Dammit VE that would've been the scum basically committing suicide. Mocsta didn't have crumbs, I did. T.T Oh well. I actually crumbed JK lolz | ||
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that was one of the biggest lessons I learnt in my second newbie (34) Ironically with Sylencia as scum!!! It was 4 ppl left: me (confirmed town), zarepath (confirmed town), jampidampi & Sylencia. I had a town read on Sylencia, and scum read on jampidampi. The entire cycle, I just hammered the shit out of jampidampi with my confirmation bias; and played a large component in losing the game. The point: When someone is a clear front runner for a lynch; you *NEED* to question what *IS NOT* being questioned. Sounds easy and intuitive; but most often we feed our own confirmation bias, and forget to figure out what is actually missing... Case in point: this Sylencia lynch. | ||
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On February 20 2013 11:00 JacobStrangelove wrote: I have a sudden urge to want to write flavour but I feel my flavour would be along the same lines and quality as Axlegreasers posts... Beat you to it Dear On February 20 2013 10:15 Mocsta wrote: Im taking a break from playing; so I could co-host if needed. Is it just vote count + maybe writing flavour? Perhaps our forces can unite. I have the Mocsta effect; you have the strangest of love; together, they combine into.... <AWESOME flavour> | ||
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On February 20 2013 10:59 TestSubject893 wrote: Cora: Why were you trying so hard to discredit me? Its not the end of the world to be suspicious, but the more you refused to scumhunt and spend effort hating on me, the more I thought there was no way you were town. I will let him answer this for himself; but my 2c from recollection. <just note, I was privy to knowing you were both town> I thought corazon could have responded to you less harshly; but i could see his point of view. I knew you were both town and thought you were wasting your time on him; and thus, wasting the influence options of being confirmed town. With that in mind; corazon expressed -quite vivdly- the same mentality.. why are you wasting time on "me" go hunt real scum. Because his knowledge was that he was town, and 'knew' it was a waste of time; and probably auto-assume everyone thought the same. I said this in one of my recent games (non-newbie) where some one kept beating the same drum over and over again; and think it applies here. On February 07 2013 14:48 Mocsta wrote: I learnt my lesson yesterday and am walking away from this as of now. I have answered the question(s) at hand several times to multiple parties; its simple, you do not like my answers. However you are making zero effort to manifest your question with a different approach. i.e. You keep asking the same question, I keep giving the same answer. Either:
I am saying this because, I see this sequence of events on TL Mafia a lot (even though I am relatively new) corazon made no real effort to be pleasant, effectively pissing you off to tunnel him more. And you made no effort to paraphrase and consider there was a misunderstanding (which is generally the simplest solution) | ||
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On February 20 2013 12:27 geript wrote: Because you played like an asshole the whole game. I have no problems with people being wrong, that happens. I can deal with pushing bad reads. But I stand behind everything I said about you two creating a negative town atmosphere; at least Mocsta had a reason to be harming atmosphere. I think part of the reason for no consolidation was the fact that no one wanted to deal with the bullshit you'd give them. I think I even stated in game, there's a difference between being aggressive (which can be good) and being an asshole (which is always worthless). Letting off the gas can be as effective in reading people as putting it on. I think this is over generalized. It takes two to tango; yes Corazon was unpleasant at times; I can understand why he choose to 'combust' the way he did. corazon was beating the warbaby drum; and no one reciprocated - which is not a problem. Its that IIRC his case was essentially ignored; no critiques, no extensions etc just plain ignored for a "policy lurker lynch" Pretty frustrating if you ask me. That doesnt give reason to behave the way he did; but, Im more pointing out its not like he wanted to be that way intentionally (I hope) | ||
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Believe it or not; I agree - because it leads to confirmation bias (ironic coming from me) HOWEVER.. I think the above is an unwritten 'law' regardless. Some things can only be achieved effectively when you have sufficient town cred/established innocence. Otherwise it is likely to just fall upon deaf ears; this is human nature - whether tunneled or not. e.g. If a 3-post lurker makes a case on the most active/vocal person; who has been speaking within logic/reason. Most likely the 3-post lurker post will be ignored. | ||
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On February 20 2013 12:43 cDgCorazon wrote: If you think I played like an asshole, you need to go look at NMM XXXVI. That was a shitfest. It gets frustrating when your case does not gain any traction (especially after WB's emotional reaction to it), and then you have to go with a lynch that you really wish you didn't need to make, get called out for it (it was a fair case) multiple times even though you've already answered it, and then have to deal with another guy tunneling you for the same reasons. Perhaps if you guys didn't irritate me with your play so much, I wouldn't snap as easily. Ever thought about that? You need to chillax matey and go back to ya playstyle from NMM34. You were calm, more introverted and looking for rational, well-reasoned play. Its why you were shot N1. Something happened to you in NMM36, and you carried it with you to this game. Mafia is a game of 'intense emotions' people are going to shit you to tears; and if scum know they can compromise you... they will try. Only YOU are accountable for YOUR actions. No one else. | ||
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On February 20 2013 12:54 Aquanim wrote: Sure, sure... but if you tell the 3-post lurker to shut up and do whatever you tell them when they DO make a contribution, you'll be left with a 4-post lurker for the rest of the game. Which is hardly ideal. I can agree with that point; clearly there are multitudes of cons. But to lambaste corazon solely is unwarranted. - I know that you are generalizing; but the majority of the thread is targeting corazon. Corazon was not the only proponent of "damned if you, damned if you don't" logic in this game. Sn0_Man (i think?) exhibited the same tendencies - and I did call him out on it. (Coulda been TestSubject, cant remember) | ||
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On February 20 2013 12:59 cDgCorazon wrote: Are you still waiting for an answer on the Glurio question? All I got from your argument was that I didn't vote for WB and that I voted for Glurio. I'm not trying to be mean. I actually think zarepath figured this all out before the bitter end Shame he didnt chime in earlier; woulda made for an exciting mislynch on zarepath On February 20 2013 01:17 zarepath wrote: Mocsta was the momentum for the Glurio lynch. However, we can say that Cora was only trying to do what Mocsta had asked for earlier -- consolidation. I concur with this. I think corazon had enough of a town read on me; to follow my vote and consolidate. I dont think he wanted to admit it; because it doesnt look good (considering it was a mislynch... and everything everyone else pointed). I know there are times i make decisions in mafia; it doesnt pan out well.. and ppl questioning me, and i avoid giving them the answer I know they want.. BECAUSE. i know they will twist it to suit their confirmation bias. | ||
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Its not a competition BUT since you asked On February 12 2013 14:41 Mocsta wrote: Cora u approach warbaby as damned if u do. Damned if u dont. On February 16 2013 08:55 cDgCorazon wrote: 4 days baby Why is it "damned if you do, damned if you don't"? That's the same stuff I did that took all of the momentum out of the WB case... | ||
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& note the second half of: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395714¤tpage=86#1718 | ||
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Somehow can get u 2 masters/diamond, but u actually need real skill to get to gm. Its funny was reading some guides last night from 2011. Content was identical to complaints in 2013. Too much lurking, not enough analysis... Fact is, lurking leads to relatively easy mislynches in most games... And why wouldn't lazy players use an easy to work strat? Until players in general lift the skill cap, the lurking philosophy will always be valid option for perhaps a majority of players...sigh ≠======== War baby its OK baby. I don't need you to praise my play. I agree town had this game lost due to inactivity. Town losing so badly (I.e. flawless victory to scum) had nothing to do with bad town however, and that is the point u r missing. Zarepath commentary at end of d3 was on the money. And all the facts were there to easily lynch sevryn throughout each cycle. Mandalors contributions were null at best as well. Ohhh and Apparently u were the only guy in game and in OBS qt to be onto me as well.... This all suggests it should have been tighter with at least one to two scum casualties. Dance around that as much as u want due to town lurking, but the above still holds. =====>====== As I said. I don't need the praise. I know the things I did worked. I'm actually trying to help u improve our play because this game is not about what you know... But about what you convince others to believe I.e. there is many good reasons sylencia was lynched. And most tie into the above. In all seriousness his defense and no lynch vote were not as scummy as made out to be. Good luck in future games and hopefully next time we are in the same qt | ||
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On February 21 2013 10:19 warbaby wrote: Oh, I see the point you're making and I disagree. You had such an easy time of it (town basically gave up) that I don't see how you can imply you actually played all that well. I give you much more credit for your loss in '35, when you actually played well against serious opponents. I wanted to try to lynch you so bad D3, but who would have gone with me? You and sevryn? Sylencia and Corazon thought I was scum. Everyone else was inactive until the last minute. You literally had a free ride. This is the last I will say, because, I can not help you see, what you can not see (yet; perhaps due to pride or experience, not sure). The irony of the well-executed con is that only the instigator can see the beauty that unfolds. I can forgive you for not getting it, because the strings were pulled very smoothly. Yes - I agree - many things fell in my favour (i.e. lurking); but to suggest it was a free ride is very naive. The lurking simply allowed me to become more forceful in achieving flawless victory; I had the intention to bus Sev/Man by leading their vote if required. If you want to pretend you had the goods to get me lynched; then you need to re-evaluate your D3 filter where I was constantly referenced among the "active town" and thus, was considered as "town" - this is undeniable. To suggest that was achieved by a free ride due to lurkers is just silly: because Sn0_Man was still considered "confirmed town" even after he commenced lurking. =================== If you want some *hints* of the con; many ideas taking off in the thread *I believe* stemmed from ideas I introduced. If you want an early example; corazon case on warbaby all originated from a post I made prior highlighting your deficiencies. corazon simply fleshed it out for me. (The points he raised were almost all mine to a tee) If you want a late example; you guys were all over Sevryn; many calling him scum directly, and Sylencia 50/50. It is not chance that you suddenly went 180', stood up for Sevyrn, and aided town to unanimously voted Sylencia. (And by unanimous I do not suggest sheeping: zarepath/Sn0 suggested they read the content leading up to the Sylencia vote, and thus made a conscious decision to lynch Sylencia, not a sheep vote... they understood it would lead to MYLO if wrong) As I said before, Sylencia defense wasn't the best; but it was still quite townie in nature/mindset. There is are several reasons his lynch fell into place so smoothly; lurking is one of them; but not the sole or most critical one. His lynch was certainly not a free ride. ============= As I said before, I am not asking for praise. I am actually trying to help, because you seem keen to improve. (and it is also helping me with my town game) In my opinion, an important takeaway from this game is: How did I establish sufficient innocence to then push my agenda. Was I considered town for reasons that are actually "NULL"; or did I actually replicate genuine town tells? In my opinion, Mandalor should NEVER have been considered town; all his posts were "NULL" at best, and with the lurking, should have been insta-lynched based on contribution quality and quantity. Another example; Sevryn abused the lurker situation by "standing up in the crowds" and voicing his opinion on Glurio.. twice. I constantly suggested in the thread, this was a townie tell, and I believe nobody questioned it. However.. is it really a townie tell? (Obviously not..) It is simply just something you do not expect from a scum lurker. The crux: we need to constantly update/adapt our heuristics with placing 'value' on tells to decide town or scum. ==================== This is why I said in earlier posts, next town game I play, my main scum hunt emphasis is going to be on breaking down others case logic. I have a much better understanding now of worse-case logic generated by scum; and worse-case logic generated by tunneled townie. =================== Sorry for the wall of text. This is really the last I will say Peace Out | ||
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On February 21 2013 10:55 warbaby wrote: I read the scum QT and I was honestly not that impressed, especially compared to scum QT's I've read where the scumteam did not get a complete free ride from >50% of town. But that's the point, Mocsta went for a cheesy scum style that relied on most of town failing to do anything for extended periods of time. It didn't work the first time he did it, but it worked this time, probably because this time half of the town decided not to play for nearly half of the game. It's a valid strategy, and he shows some skill executing it against such incredibly meek opposition. But to extend the metaphor, I'm still in the position of having been cannon rushed, and when I went to pull my probes and defend (eg, attack Mocsta) the probes just sat around doing nothing or attacking my nexus instead. But hey, at least I tried. If you think NMM37 was a cheesy scum style; I am excited to know what you think is not cheesy. My scum game is quite in-ya-face; so if that is cheese... what is the scum style of NMM36? And you are seriously misguided when it comes to my scum game in NMM35. Out of three people, two were modkilled within 24hrs.. and I had no knowledge of whether a replacement would come in. I had to make decisions that ultimately compromised me for the remainder of the game. The case I made that got me lynched, was created again, when there was uncertainty over a replacement. Additionally compounding this, was that in NMM34 i was hammered majorly by everyone for casting the hammer vote on town, to seal a scum victory (for Sylencia). I came into NMM35 with a defensive mindset - regardless of alignment. This game:NMM37 is the first scum game I have been able to express my true intentions of playing scum. If thats cheesy to you; ohhh well, I am not going to argue with you any further. Peace Out. | ||
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On February 21 2013 11:14 warbaby wrote: I guess you don't believe that I gave up at the start of D3. I literally had no interest in putting effort into playing the game at that point, and you can see this in the deterioration of the quality of my posts. As Acrofales pointed out in his post-game analysis & zarepath pointed out in his N3 analysis, the facts were all there to point you in the right direction. (Before Day 3) You saying you gave up is a complete cop out; you considered me town, blatantly - way before D3 started. Even Sn0_Man had a towny read on me before he lurked. The filter does not lie and all the evidence to pin me, Sevryn, Mandalor existed between D1 -> N2. (Before you apparently gave up) If we play along with your sob-story: D2, there was all the time in the world to scum hunt, I don't recall your contributions. What I do recall is shutting down corazon from building a case on zarepath.. again, my motive was never questioned. Why, because you and others felt it came from a townie... yet this is apparently cheese lol? You think you were tricking people, but you were simply abusing your number and volume advantage to push the game in the direction you wanted. If you recall; I was started to be perceived as town once I stated to "active lurk" 1/4 through Day1. So no, it had nothing to do with abusing number advantage. I adapted to the complaints people made of me and RNG.As for high post volume.. lol.. for a majority of Day3/Night3, I did as you/corazon directly requested of me.. shut up shop and wait for Sn0_Man/zarepath to comment. P.S. Im confident I could have got you and zarepath lynched at any point in the game - both of you had worse filters than Sylencia in my opinion - and we know how Sylencia went down. I made a conscious decision to leave zarepath for later as my lynchpin; and you came unstuck when the SK was tracker; forcing me to take an alternative path. Again, didnt realise scum play in your games has been of such a high standard, that they constantly adapt;thus rendering my play as cheesy lol. & P.P.S If you think that scum QT sucked.. thats ironic.. (1) The coach consciously decided he did not need to input anything, other than saying some plans were not worth the risk/reward & (2) Who did I have to talk to, in the first place. The QT formed a place to confirm the NK, and to post cases for Sevryn. That you ignore this (and in particular (1) ) clearly expresses how tunneled you are right now. & P.P.P.S you can interpret this as ego or whatever, but when you take a step back. Look at the things I am writing. In the past posts I actually provide analysis on why some reads and actions were outright wrong. As I said before, I couldnt give two shits on your praise; I am trying to help you, which in the processes improves my understanding and helps me. & P.P.P.P.S The praise I do give a shit about, is VE nominating me for a 2013 mafia best play newbie game award. Obviously it doesnt qualify due to XP limits; but, you need to ask yourself why a respected player in the community would nominate in the first place, when you simply think it is cheese... Peace Out. | ||
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On February 21 2013 11:22 warbaby wrote: I consider your play style from 35 to basically be louder than the active towns, and push the agenda in whatever direction you want because nobody is doing anything to stop you. This worked in '35 until the town woke up and started actually playing. It worked even better in '37 because the town hardly did anything constructive the entire game (TestSubject being the big exception to this). For your reference, NMM35 no one officially woke up till I released my dud case. Which was due to me refusing to adapt to a changing climate. Having said that, I am only responding because you raise a flawed heuristic I want to highlight. I consider your play style from 35 to basically be louder than the active towns, and push the agenda in whatever direction you want because nobody is doing anything to stop you. I think this is a terrible heuristic; however, i think you may have written the statement poorly. TestSubject893 was important not because of the logic he was spewing; but because he was confirmed town, which meant he had "established innocence". This in turn gave him trust; and allowed him to follow reads with more force; whether right or wrong. If you think nobody is doing anything to stop me; its not because they think I am scum and waiting for me to slip. Its because I have established sufficient innocence to fall down the threat priority list. corazon had no problem constant issues in your play D1, because your innocence was NOT established. My "free ride" had nothing to do with being unintentionally ignored. I was ignored, because I was considered innocent enough. You need to re-read Incogntio mafia guide and the scum QT. What was the first thing I was saying to the team. D1.. Townies/Scum doing the same thing.. establish innocence. Town looking for scum; scum looking for bad townies to call scum. | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:02 warbaby wrote: You did not establish your innocence, you established your dominance over the only other active town (Corazon). There's a big difference between appearing innocent (which you did not, at one point 66% of the active towns were after you as scum) and dominating the game because you have 1 actual opponent (after TS died). You are again missing the point. Since when do you accept the shit babbling out of a scum read. You only accept the shit babbling if he has established innocence; and will put under consideration if null. Even you should be aware of this common sense. Dominance can only come afterwards. I don't think I dominated this game anyways, so the conversation is moot. I think corazon tried to lead this game, and constantly consulted me for cues. If you think this happened by chance; again, you are misreading the game. I knew I could work with corazon actively throughout the game; when I asked him to drop his case on you D1 and he reciprocated... Again, you miss all the fine actions in the game, which is the sole reason I am discussing them. This is a newbie game and it is meant to be a learning platform for everyone to develop from. I don't recall a point in this game, where I was voted (as a joke or intent to lynch). So no, no one was ever after me as you claim. And by 'onto me' if are referring to someone doubting me early game... do we not doubt everyone at the start? Surely, you have enough intelligence to realise the above is meaningless; in particular to use as a basis for stating I could have been caught. I am going to be blunt here; this discussion is a waste of time. You are obviously sour grapes. I suggest when you have had a mental break from this specific game, you at a minimum re-read the post-game comments. There are a lot of things said by multiple people that can help improve your town scum hunting perceptions. Ciao. | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:02 warbaby wrote: e: well, more like zero opponents, since I had given up on trying to hunt you after TS died, which I already admitted was the biggest mistake I think I made in this game. I didn't have a town read on you, I just didn't think there was any point in pursuing you when Cora and your lurker buddy would just burn me down for trying to do so (again, my fault for just giving up). Even though you spell it out; you can't see it. Establishing innocence does not need to infer "probably town" read. As i stated, just means you not on the threat meter; i.e. not worth pursuing. That is all it takes for someone to start pushing an agenda. And you love talking about hindsight; you never knew Sevryn and I were working together @ all. If Sevryn was such a scum read to you; you would have chosen him over Sylencia.. but you didnt. ================= For posterity To prove the point: On February 19 2013 05:38 warbaby wrote: Its not about being confirmed town as scum. If anything that makes everything harder; because there is more responsibility when you lead a mislynch.I think you missed my point. I'm not saying sevryn is town, but he responded better to our requests for his scumreads (by actually listing a few) than sylencia. On February 18 2013 06:19 warbaby wrote: Because we always choose to agree with our scum reads.<insert sarcasm>... The only time you had a "scum read" was N1, and that was founded on OMGUS. If your suspicion was as strong as you suggest post-game, D3 and D2 you would not be actively agreeing with me.(regardless of giving up apparently; even though you would respond to posts within 5-10min, suggesting you were constantly F5'n the thread)I want to highlight this post by mocsta: <spoiler> I agree with Mocsta. On February 17 2013 09:45 warbaby wrote: Yes, that doesnt infer you thought I was town; but it doesnt matter. I was not on the table, and that is the objective. And the point you seem to be missing, even though you spelt it out at the start.Mislynches happen D1. There is no way I'm willing to lynch Corazon over that and some crazy association case with Mocsta. I'm glad TS made some effort to hunt scum among the active players, but I've yet to see anything that makes me sure I want to lynch Mocsta or Corazon. | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:33 geript wrote: No offense to either side, I though Mocsta was scum off and on. Sure he got most of a free ride in that almost nobody questioned him or his motives. But that's not his fault. Part of the problem in the game IMO was that nobody questioned the direction of the town at almost any point and Mocsta abused that all to hell. Part of becoming a better player in every game is learning when to question game state. When the most active/loudest voices persist, you really need to ask yourself why they're persisting. Are these people who are being manipulated? Are these people who are actively leading the town to bad decisions? What's the purpose for scum leaving them around? Sure you might argue that's all a circumstantial case, but the cumulative effects of being wrong and loud add up to something. Personally I was very surprised when neither Cora nor Mocsta wanted to discuss cases day 2 as that seemed very anti-town. I was surprised when nobody put them on blast for it. I was actually kinda mad dying night 1 as I felt like I was going to be building momentum to steal the shared mayor position from Mocsta/Cora and get the town headed in a more effective direction. I was also mad at myself for not sharing my suspicions of Mocsta even if I couldn't find the case I wanted to make on him. Agree fully, and this makes me proud I made a decision to kill you. Definitely would have made the game more challenging with this type of game insight. Good luck in Mafia LX. | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:51 geript wrote: One last point I would like to make is that it's perfectly fine to play as a 'backseat' or passive player. You don't need to be in the driver's seat; I actually hate leading the town as it makes me post more and think less which in general leads to worse results (at least for me). But there are times when it's necessary to change town direction. I forget who it was, but Iirc Sylencia changing to topic to glurio was very important (if town) or (if sevryn) to look town as the town was beating a dead horse. Better to move on and move forward. Even Sno's posts re:Cora v Warbaby I quoted were very important IMO as it changed the town atmosphere drastically to be more civil and less hostile (while still allowing aggressive play). I agree. I feel my best game(s) contribution wise have been the ones with vets, where I have been able to take a back seat and concentrate more on scum hunting; than trying to do that + lead conversation. The games as town, where I have taken the lead, either out of want (newbies) or because no one else stepped up and someone has to do it.. my play suffered majorly. Geript, I cant wait to lead a lynch on you (and succeed ); will be an entertaining battle of wits. | ||
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On February 21 2013 12:45 warbaby wrote: I swear I made like a half dozen posts questioning Mocsta's motives, and linking to his other meta with my own read that he is playing the same scum style from '35, and in the only will I posted he was my top scum read. That was never going to stick, for several reasons (1) My scum style is based on my town style. Most ppl that know me, know that. The meta points you raised were moot. The meta points promethelax suggested post-game is much more indicative, and that was just a passing comment. (2) Your case came after I was hammering you. It was an easy sell as OMGUS, the attitude you espoused also did you no favours. There was a reason I never built a case on you Day1, but kept calling you and Geript scum. (3) You had nothing on me, other than meta; which can not be the foundation of a case. Thats on par with a case built on a scum slip. (4) And most importantly, you did NOT have the town cred to push an agenda, whether right or wrong. The only reason you were considered town to corazon was around N2, when zare/sn0 lurked hard... I was a towny read to many players by the end of D1. You never could have lynched me, unless you found a huge scum slip. Secondly, you made a majority - if not all - of those posts ( i didnt bother to read them) during N1. Not following through afterwards due to me being active, is stupid and very flawed logic. You always push your biggest scum read. It doesnt matter if lurker or active. Its actually worse that you let your "apparent top scum read" take indirect control. Thats completely on you. | ||
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On February 21 2013 13:08 warbaby wrote: However I'm not trying to shirk blame for the loss. I'm trying to point out that Mocsta's win was not as impressive as he and his coach seems to think it is, and that I think some of the advice he's giving postgame is not as good as other advice (such as your analysis of the game, which has legitimate criticisms of my play). I only like calling ppl dickheads in-game, cos its part of the game and we all have our personas to adhere to. Out of game: I don't know you, and will most likely never know you. So I don't see the point. But Im going to throw that out the window, and outright call you a dickhead, out of game. (1) You're the only one pushing this "scum did fuck all" thought process and its really starting to piss me off. I already agreed, scum had this in the bag due to lurking. The component of merit was the flawless victory. And that nobody challenged me after Day1, when the game generally starts due to lynch information. You are trying to make yourself feel better by trying to piss over my efforts, and that is bullshit. (2) You don't like my post-game pointers; whatever. I am not trying to force feed anything down your throat.. Having said that: I will repeat one item to you and because I have seen this attitude in many newbie post-games: and its completely the wrong mindset if you want to improve. On February 21 2013 13:03 warbaby wrote: What are you achieiving with this statement?Yeah, it was a terrible mistake to not push a case on Mocsta. I can't say for 100% that I would have made a case on Mocsta, but he was who I was leaning towards as the scum among the active players. I believe strongly: You're just trying to make yourself feel better by trying to prove you were suspicious of me. (With your post-game knowledge may I add). Lets play along, and pretend you were seriously suspicious of me *ALL GAME* - which I already proved is not the case. Then.So what... in the end.. it comes back down to the advice I gave you personally before (even though you probably dont realise how valid it is) On February 21 2013 08:33 Mocsta wrote: this game is not about what you know... But about what you convince others to believe Realise. Sylencia called me and Sevryn scum before he died. He was right, and so what. *YOU* decided to piss that away; yet now you purport you were all over me. QED. I am now over this, and won't be responding at all anymore. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:07 cDgCorazon wrote: It's all good, I just need to learn to stick with my guns more. I really should've lynched Sevryn. Anyways I'm ready to forget this nightmare of a game. Too bad I can't drink... Yeah, Sevryn was dead-set to be lynched Day1 . Dude, same applies to you (and other players) as I suggested to warbaby. Re-read the game; and see if you still think your town reads are still town. Mandalor did NOTHING to be a town read; yet was considered by a majority to be town. If anything cora, there is a lot more that can be learnt from this game than from NMM36. Don't despair | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:11 thrawn2112 wrote: lol we need to come up with a good euphemism for mafia.... too many bad vibes going around when people starting calling each other "scum" Can I be the first to suggest. you're a "thrawn" in my side - eurythmetics | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:15 warbaby wrote: IMO any properly fun game is going to generate lots of bad feelings as a side-effect. My #1 lesson from '36 was to try to be calmer and less of a jerk. I think that will still be my #1 lesson going forward xD + Show Spoiler + If this game teaches me to be a nicer, more rational person, it'll be worth the effort and stress. I thought for this game it would be to not blatantly copy other game posts as a reason to be "pro-town"/promote discussion. At least paraphrase; or drop off the NMM36. | ||
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