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On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB...
Its actually funnier that I hit him with a very valid point (double standards on last will reads)
and now he runs off to "bed"... as i said before, at least he admitted today he was OMGUS
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On February 15 2013 15:20 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB... I believe your point was that in the association between you and Mocsta, Mocsta looks scummier. I agree, but I didn't realize I had to state so explicitly.
Nope. that wasnt the point at all.
He actually stated, neither of us have talked about each other much.
and in the past hour since its been you, I and him.. him and I happen to agree (on you)
You're the one looking for associations that don't exist.
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On February 15 2013 15:30 warbaby wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 15:28 Mocsta wrote:On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB... Its actually funnier that I hit him with a very valid point (double standards on last will reads) and now he runs off to "bed"... as i said before, at least he admitted today he was OMGUS Sorry, my case is not OMGUS, it is based on meta, voting patterns, and associations. I'm also following up with points TestSubject made, which I agree with. It's not a great case, like I already pointed out. You don't need to defend yourself from me, you need to go hunt scum. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with you, Mocsta.
Right...
so when you ask me questions.. apparently you are scum hunting.
and when I ask you questions.. "i need to go hunt scum"
Lol;
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On February 15 2013 15:42 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 15:29 Mocsta wrote:On February 15 2013 15:20 warbaby wrote:On February 15 2013 15:19 cDgCorazon wrote:
The fact that it took him 20 minutes to respond and then decides to ignore me in his last post suggests to me that he looked through our filters and realized that I was right...typical WB... I believe your point was that in the association between you and Mocsta, Mocsta looks scummier. I agree, but I didn't realize I had to state so explicitly. Nope. that wasnt the point at all. He actually stated, neither of us have talked about each other much. and in the past hour since its been you, I and him.. him and I happen to agree (on you) You're the one looking for associations that don't exist. No Mocsta, I said that I haven't been talking about you, you have been talking about me more.
What am I supposed to do when I guy continually says, why haven't you been talking about corazon?
Anyways I dont think your scum; so whats the problem if I agreed on a few points with you?
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On February 15 2013 15:58 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 15:48 Mocsta wrote:
What am I supposed to do when I guy continually says, why haven't you been talking about corazon?
Anyways I dont think your scum; so whats the problem if I agreed on a few points with you? It just seems like you have been trying a bit too hard to associate yourself with me.Obviously I'm not shouting "burn the witch", but I believe that you are the main reason (obviously things I've done haven't helped) that all this association shit is going on.
Going to disagree here.
I have have never had a problem saying to others when I agree.
As a corollary, I never have a problem saying to others I disagree.
If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you.
The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest.
The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed)
Below is a recap of what happened; because I think you have misinterpreted events
(1) TestUser was very interested in you; and noticed I made no reference of you in the last will.
(ignoring, there were several others I made no mention of either)
(2)you, myself and warbaby have been online the past couple hours.
He decided to latch onto TestUser query above, as a basis for his association theory. (I think he also referenced us both hunting him)
In the process of our menagetrois, you said some things I agreed with.
After all, both of us took issue with warbaby around the same time... i didnt realise it was unnatural or scummy to say when you agree with a comment. I dont see how mafia experience is relevant to that either.
So in short; the only person perpetuating association claims is warbaby. And its pretty obvious right now he will take a stab at anything.
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On February 15 2013 16:26 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 16:19 Mocsta wrote:On February 15 2013 15:58 cDgCorazon wrote:On February 15 2013 15:48 Mocsta wrote:
What am I supposed to do when I guy continually says, why haven't you been talking about corazon?
Anyways I dont think your scum; so whats the problem if I agreed on a few points with you? It just seems like you have been trying a bit too hard to associate yourself with me.Obviously I'm not shouting "burn the witch", but I believe that you are the main reason (obviously things I've done haven't helped) that all this association shit is going on. Going to disagree here. I have have never had a problem saying to others when I agree. As a corollary, I never have a problem saying to others I disagree. If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you. The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest. The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed)
Below is a recap of what happened; because I think you have misinterpreted events (1) TestUser was very interested in you; and noticed I made no reference of you in the last will. (ignoring, there were several others I made no mention of either) (2)you, myself and warbaby have been online the past couple hours. He decided to latch onto TestUser query above, as a basis for his association theory. (I think he also referenced us both hunting him) In the process of our menagetrois, you said some things I agreed with. After all, both of us took issue with warbaby around the same time... i didnt realise it was unnatural or scummy to say when you agree with a comment. I dont see how mafia experience is relevant to that either.
So in short; the only person perpetuating association claims is warbaby. And its pretty obvious right now he will take a stab at anything. So do you think there is a part in TestUser's case that I haven't addressed that I should? Or do you think this association thing is a result a logical fallacy in TU's case (one way or the other when it comes to the whole "association" thing). I actually rechecked TestUser filter and realised the question didnt come derive from my last will.
On February 15 2013 06:05 TestSubject893 wrote:Also this post + Show Spoiler +On February 14 2013 12:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2013 12:26 Sevryn wrote:On February 14 2013 12:22 Mocsta wrote:On February 14 2013 12:19 Sevryn wrote:
Hey mocsta why did you say mr. sk but not scum? do you already know he isn't scum? Hi Mr. lurker, Well I didnt think he was scum before the killing, so wasn't a natural thought to assume he is scum now. Either way; I am certain he is scum/SK now; and should be the lynch candidate for today. Are you going to continue lurking and taking snipes? Or are you going to join town and rid us of EVIL !! hey im working on not lurking and have posted my views on corazon which I would love to hear what you think about it. if we decide to lynch OO which I think we should We have Two whole days to talk about who to lynch next which is a huge bonus. i do think we should stay away from arguements that involve speculating on what his flip means till he flips that way we dont get distracted on what it means. hmmm, Corazon hasnt been on my mind to be honest; I think someone made a case (?Geript IIRC) - which I guess is suspect, knowing that that OO killed WoS no matter alignment. I can look into it; but I still want more information from zarepath first. this SK dilemna has clouded the thread somewhat (deserving though albeit) so things like my questions to zarepath are buried. Taking a break regardless strikes me as Mocsta trying to deflect the conversation away from talking about Corazon. Could be nothing though. He was scum hunting (thought corazon was scum), and asked a fair question.
But it was a misinterpretation as stated below.
On February 15 2013 06:52 Mocsta wrote:(Test. i wasnt diverting from corazon... i asked questions to zarepath that had a chance to be buried, it was about bringing them back to the surface) Keep it Simple 
As I said before I dont see the point spending time talking about my town reads; im trying to scum hunt.
As for your question about TestUser case; it doesnt come down to my opinion.
Its up to you to convince TestUser of your alignment.
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As for whether TU examination onto you is a logical fallacy.
If the case is based purely on voters on Glurio; than yes, I think it is founded on a fallacy.
The votes were so split; but I believe it was ?Sn0_Man? that already explained by vote count analysis of this lynch is essentially useless. It was too spread out, and any takings from it is based on a "hunch".
you need a flip to make associations; but this was all covered in NMM 33 if you recall.
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On phone will make 3 short points
1. Get used to losing sleep over mafia. Some even dream of mafia haha. Welcome to the club.
2. If u r tired as u indicate. I would contest your scum slip was genuine and is easily explained by a lapse in concentration. I think the counter of scum dont break the rules is weak at best and desparate at worst.
3. U r clutching at straws. Fact no one in general is talking. I find it convenient u choose to ignore my posts asking for activity and discussion
Nice try warbaby and enjoy the scum dreams
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Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed.
If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full.
But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred.
P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip.
Do u always cherry pick what you respond to?
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Im confident off the top of my head.
Mafia LIX we asked for shorter cycle.
Normal Mini 4 I think we asked for shorter cycle. And those are my two most recent games.
I think even nomination mafia we asked for shorter cycle IIRC - but that is on going so shouldnt discuss.
Everything you say is based off poorly reasoned arguments, and rash conclusions founded upon no merit.
Go to sleep; I am not bothering continuing discourse with you this cycle.
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Testuser: I am not sure if we are reading the same thread here?
warbaby - consistently insinuates associations
- consistently misrepresents information
- consistently cherry picks a sentence in a wall of text
- consistently ignores rational argument directed his way
- & consistently infers his actions are pro-town; whilst being in complete contradiction to his original "promises"
If you want to keep looking at corazon I won't stop you. - I said before it is his job to convince you of his alignment.
However; if you want to assume corazon and I are a team; I am going to have to stop you right there..
Firstly, the only reason association was brought up was because you were looking into corazon; and found it odd I did not want to concentrate on him.
This has now been explained twice
On February 15 2013 16:19 Mocsta wrote:
If anything, I have *not* been discussing you. Keep It Simple Stupid: As stated before, I have a town read on you.
The goal of this game is to find scum; not have a townie love fest.
The only person I spoke about being town was TestSubject (as he was essentially confirmed) Again, why is that scum-alignment indicative? You are working off associations founded upon assumptions. Mafia is about flipping one player and then making the associations.
Lets work through the logic.
Corazon flips town; then what? The entire association case falls apart; unless you are warbaby, then I become de facto scum. Anyone that targets warbaby is scum right...
Corazon flips scum; again, then what? How does my interaction today prove I am in a scum team?
(Simply, that evidence on it own does not; and fuck me if I am going to have my first mislynch under this condition)
The same logic applies with me as the lynch candidate.
Fact: One interaction does not make two people scum.
If you were not 'essentially' confirmed town; I could say you and Sn0_Man are a scum team because of the glowing review you gave him.... But I didn't (and neither did others), because that is an illogical stance to assume - just like the situation present.
Secondly, the only reason this item of association was re-raised was due to the misrepresentation of warbaby
On February 15 2013 13:32 warbaby wrote:You say here that you haven't been thinking of Corazon much, but then when I search for "Corazon" if your full filter, I get 42 hits!
Do you want to know why this is an example of misrepresentation?- Some of those counts are from pre-game
- Some of those counts are from quotes I have responded too
- Some of those hits are from nested quotes when responding to OTHERS
I am not going to comment on the times I referenced corazon directly, because frankly, it does not matter.
In reality; I did not mention corazon much throughout Day1. Just as there are others that did not catch my attention.
This is the way of a game of forum-mafia. I can go into anyone's filter and find people they have not questioned.
What is the point, and why is this alignment indicative - without a red flip
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On February 15 2013 18:45 Mocsta wrote:
Its actually a common occurrence to ask for shorter cycles when a lynch is universally agreed.
If town was actively conversing than yes. Keep the cycle full.
But don't try and bullshit me as if lots of flowing conversation occurred.
P.s. thanks for ignoring my succinct reasoning for your scum slip.
Do u always cherry pick what you respond to? On February 15 2013 22:19 TestSubject893 wrote:
WB is trying to converse, but you and Corazon just keep insisting that we should not be.
TestUser, can you please clarify who "we" is.
I assume you imply town; if so, I am genuinely surprised by this; as I thought I was a proponent of town continuing scum hunting.
Further, I am confused by the statement in general, even though it is written plain and simple.
Are you inferring: that you disagree with the above comments I directed to warbaby?
(Mocsta was addressing WB in this post) Show nested quote +On February 15 2013 18:56 Mocsta wrote:
Everything you say is based off poorly reasoned arguments, and rash conclusions founded upon no merit.
I personally think that WB is asking reasonable questions (especially for a newbie game). The fact that no one is answering him is concerning to me.
If you think his questions are reasonable fine; I believe I addressed a majority of them regardless.
However: What is concerning to me TestUser; is that you do not seem to notice (or case) warbaby is actually the one who blatantly ignores any criticisms/comments directed his way.
I simply do not understand how when two people react, and exhibit the same behaviour; one is reasonable, the other becomes 'something else'?
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warbaby is my number one scum - thought that was clear.
as for number two:
I think its between mandalor or sylencia
I have not liked mandalor most of the game (identified him in my last will) and this cycle asked him to produce some reads (with no response so far).
I treated Sylencia as blue read early on (same reason as Sn0_Man).. but. considering his play has not picked up @ all i am now getting concerned. Even this cycle; his play is still *all* blue talk.
I must admit i am starting to think its a ploy; because I certainly have not seen a strong scum read out of him - even though I asked him for one already.
Between the two, I am more likely to suspect Sylencia.
Because, he has shown he is still actively lurking; just selectively picking and choosing what he comments on. (this is a problem due to sharing no strong reads)
On the other hand mandalor I ?think? said he was busy; which is a pretty convenient excuse, but I guess with the filter activity might be adding up?
My thoughts on course of action; pressure both, figure out if mandalor is lying about being busy; and get Sylencia to disseminate some reads. Will be able to re-assess from there.
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On February 15 2013 23:47 zarepath wrote:
Okay, looked at WB's supposed scum slip -- it comes from within a hypothetical scenario, so I don't see it as necessarily being a scum slip.
If WB is scum, we should be able to tell from reasons other than him literally telling us he is scum.
(Not sure if I am allowed to say this, because it might make you and I scum zarepath) but...
Agreed; I dont build a case due to scum slips.
Its simply icing on the cake.
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If you recall; I lead Day2 with a vote on warbaby.
Then the OO issue happened; and everything else went on hold.
To answer your question: the cake is pretty much baked.
Your current thoughts on Sylencia/Mandalor as reads?
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On February 16 2013 00:51 Sn0_Man wrote:
What I want to know is why does Sevryn get such an utter free ride from so many people (especially mocsta/Cora)? Sure people mention his name when they call our low contribution members, but when its down to who might be scum, his name never even pops up...
Sev is null for me.
I do want to see more from him; but I prioritize mandalor/sylencia over him. - as stated before.
Next cycle we are down to what 9 players? pressuring 3 people simultaneously is 33% of the playing list.
I would contemplate an RNG lynch on them Considering they aren't giving us anything to work with.
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K guys, im off to bed; saturday is pretty packed for me; so not sure how much I will be around for the next cycle.
+ my other game deadline is tomorrow & I am a lynch candidate, so thats my focus with the limited time i have  sorry.
Feel free to send questions my way; and will answer when i get an opportunity.
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*IF you were town*
I am not sure why you have the confidence to make these types of posts; before the final hour deadline to be honest.
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Mocsta N2: Last Will
TestSubject893... sorry for misspelling your name. The OP filter lists "TestUser893"
Little Things I did not like during Day2/Night2
Day2
- Lack of contribution from (Mandalor/Sylencia/Sevryn)
- Lack of pro-active scum hunting from Sn0_Man/zarepath
- & warbaby is still just copying others ideas - never applying original thought.
Night 2
- cDgCorazon instantly tries to divert attention away from the Geript NK
- warbaby continuing to "contribute"
Musings on above
Lack of contribution from Mandalor/Sylencia/Sevryn
+ Show Spoiler +Many have called out all three of these multiple times to no avail.
Sevryn, yes the contributions are pretty weak when I read through the filter; but, in my opinion is more to go with than Mandalor/Sylencia. I read him as a small voice that is trying to be heard and being ignored. Now is the chance, ask direct questions and re-assess that little voice.
Mandalor I just don't like, and haven't liked any of his contributions all game. I can support a policy lynch on him; as it is now clear he is not going to reciprocate to our questions. I mean, fuck, he's can't be that busy.
Sylencia - Has more contributions than Mandalor by far; yet are they actually scum hunting? Day1 I found the logic posts useful. But since then, nothing has changed; and this just REEKS of trying to contribute without contributing. Like Mandalor is ignoring the pressure. I can also support a policy lynch here.
If Mandalor/Sylencia are town; surely they would realise we are close to MYLO and would realise they have to contribute more. BUT THEY HAVEN'T. Very suspicious. As such, if they continue to not reciprocate by 24-36hrs; I would suggest a policy lynch.
Lack of pro-active scum hunting from Sn0_Man/zarepath
+ Show Spoiler +I feel good enough about your play so play to think you guys are my best town reads (aside from TestSubject). With that status; I was expecting you guys to lead more discussion during Day2. (Sn0_Man Night2 suggestion to hold off and re-read was very reasonable).
You two really need to promote more discussion this coming cycle; share your scum reads, create pressure and judge without fallacy. (i.e. go back to Day1 play)
warbaby is still just copying others ideas - never applying original thought
+ Show Spoiler +This guy is still just rubbing me the wrong way. I have been told in the past; when two people butt heads majorly they typically both town and just being stubborn. I want to believe this, BUT...
My problem is; every time he walks away, he just grabs ideas others have come up (e.g. myself/TestSubject/Sn0_Man etc) and makes all these posts as if he is super pro-town or something.
Look at his recent "summary" posts on lurkers.. they have ZERO analysis.
I can go into Sylencia and Sevryn filter and do the same thing.. its classic contributing WITHOUT contributing.
We are one step away from MYLO, so I am willing to give warbaby a fair (unbiased) chance based on his scum hunt pressure play.
cDgCorazon instantly tries to divert attention away from Geript NK
+ Show Spoiler +This is a little thing. I just didn't like the way he instantly tried to separate himself from the NK by saying the emotional appeal: "I am town it cant be me". This is a slight scum tell to me.
Why?
Because if TestSubject893 was not pushing him so hard; I don't think cDgCorazon would have chosen to react that way when he made the post. I think he would have held more self-confidence and applied a more logical mindset by providing fact.
I did not like the way cDgCorazon handled himself when discussing the Geript NK. It is not a strong scum indicator though; so am going to re-read through the TestSubject893 pressure and see whether I like corazon defense anymore.
warbaby continuing to "contribute"
+ Show Spoiler +WTF are those posts he made before the 1hr deadline.
"I am so pro-town - I make summary posts on lurkers"
Where is the analysis of actoins?
All I read is "RB claim is fake" where is the justification
"Puts a little effort into this post" .. I can say the same for many of his and others.. why is that scummy?
These summary posts are clear attempts to contribute WITHOUT contributing. Granted town and scum can do this.. but tackle it on with having the confidence to post before the 1hr deadline; and it doesnt look good for warbaby.
warbaby, I repeat.. I recognise we are close to MYLO; and if alive, I am not going to tunnel you Day3. I will be paying very close attention to your scum hunting techniques however, and expect to see more detailed *and accurate* analysis from you.
TL;DR
I will be focusing pressure on the three lurkers; and actively paying attention to warbaby
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EPT
