EPTI will in very soon.
Within a few days, for sure.
Nomination Mafia
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I will in very soon. Within a few days, for sure. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
As a pregame note, I'm going to make an effort to be less abrasive and confrontational this game. I'm on a more even keel at the moment than I have been lately. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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I suppose it is kind of silly to do so. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 05 2013 09:58 marvellosity wrote: Well it's 9-4. Say I'm town, I'm basically presume I'm not going to be mislynched CHALLENGE ACCEPTED | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I had a good laugh after I posted that. | ||
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yamato77
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:[ | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On February 05 2013 11:54 wherebugsgo wrote: someone's gunning for the 2013 Toad award Is there something I'm missing with this? How am I similar to Toad here? | ||
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yamato77
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Teehee. | ||
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yamato77
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Two terrible jokes in a span of a few hours. I need sleep, lol. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Day 1 I will be super active townyamato if that is indeed the case. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On February 06 2013 07:40 VisceraEyes wrote: You don't have the stones to policy lynch me bro. Bugs seems to think I'm a mini-Palmar, so don't test me on that one. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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My strongest mafia read is Mocsta. This game has begun exactly the same way as NMM XXXV where Oats was town and Mocsta the mafia. I think getting a lynch rolling on him is an excellent idea. Any doubters need to go read the game I mentioned and see the similarities, and then read his LIX filter to see the difference between this game and his more amicable town game. Palmar needs to not lynch prplhz. I sense the troll with Palmar on this one, so hopefully he doesn't act the same way he did in LVIII and derail day 1. Prplhz is looking decently townie, I will not jump on lynching him any time soon. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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I won't be giving out my town tells, however. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 20 2013 22:11 Djodref wrote: @ Mocsta Sorry, I didn't see your answer. Do you really think yamato is going to be elected today ? I personally don't think so becauset yamato didn't "officially" campaign, and he is not known to have good reads so... If not, I'm curious to know what raised your attention in his posts. It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22. I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad. Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate. Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently. [/QUOTE] This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia. On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote: @Sn0_Man I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here? On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote: Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph. You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play. On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote: Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh* Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet. zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity. [Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling] On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote: Oats, Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions. If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems. And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel. Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose? Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not. Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread. Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one. On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote: Wow. Thats it over the night shift. Oats u sound like sno_man. perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion. I think u should read what i posted to him. My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation. @oatsmaster Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote: VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released. My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult. I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices. I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know. Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game. I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum. You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 03:53 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh you. Of course I can't consolidate my posts. ^^ I'm not even spamming. One thing I didn't like about yamato's case on Mocsta doesn't even have to do with the content of the case...it's the lack of a vote attached to it. It's like he's feeling out the lynch before committing. Yamato accuses Mocsta of "fabricating" his read on Oats, but most of what he's accusing Mocsta of is not even alignment indicative. Honestly, I don't even know what "fabricating" a read means. On the whole, I don't like what I've seen from yamato so far. It's reminiscent of his attack on me in the last game we played. Lemme go take a look at phagga. I noticed that he was your top read only a few posts ago, now he's "to a lesser degree". Should I assume you're disliking yamato more now? I already have my vote on him. I understand what you're saying, though I don't think this is anything like my attack on you in Normal 4. | ||
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yamato77
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Lol. Okay. Sure. Waste today thinking that. | ||
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yamato77
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Or what? | ||
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yamato77
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First, you think phagga is "interesting" or whatever, which should in this context mean that you think he might be or is mafia. If not, why mention it? Then I agree with your general thoughts, but disagree ultimately because of town tells in his filter, which I won't give out because it's giving mafia an advantage to talk about what makes you see people as town. Then I make my case on Mocsta, which you disagree with for your own reasons, but then say I SHOULD have a mafia read on Phagga based on the same logic, and call me mafia for it. All this time, what do you think Phagga is? Mafia? Town? If you think he's mafia, why are you trying to push a case on me for not thinking he is? If you think he's town, why are you talking about him like you think he's mafia? If you don't have a read on him at all, why did you mention it? And why is me talking about my conflicting views on Phagga's play somehow scummy? Lots of questions, very little answers in your filter so far. I'm being dismissive because it seems ridiculous to me that you think I'm mafia in this situation, but I've seen weirder so you get the benefit of the doubt. Explain yourself. | ||
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yamato77
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I think this was just a misunderstanding. You thought I had a town read I didn't. Fair enough. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote: I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available. Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level. Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. While this is, indeed, similar language to Mocsta and my mafia tell on him, the fact that he points out things about Mocsta in general so far makes me think him more town. Why would one mafia player pick at his mate this early in the game? It's a weak tell, like I've said, but it is one nonetheless. On February 07 2013 01:04 phagga wrote: Djo: I'm not gonna lynch a random target. I don't know what to do with Oats currently, he is either scum trying to shit up the thread to disrupt town, or stubborn, but I'm sure not just gonnay vote for him because you claim he came up on your RNG. Also, prplhz not scum, and Palmar better gets some more content in here. He reached the same conclusion I did about Prplhz, something I find encouraging for his town alignment. Perhaps this is a little foolhardy, to think someone town for thinking like me, but giving out a quick town read like that is also a towntell to me in general. On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote: Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?" Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats? He calls out Palmar, and gives an accurate analysis of what he's done so far. While I know Palmar can, and will, do this as either mafia or town, the fact that he bothers to notice and point it out is somewhat encouraging. Again, I could be wrong about this as people agreeing with my first impressions aren't always town, but it's enough for me to doubt him being mafia, which is what I've said about him so far. Happy now? | ||
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yamato77
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However, as mafia in Normal 4, I gave them out like candy. If you think I'm mafia, go read those two games and rethink your position. | ||
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yamato77
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What about my case, where I showcase the similarity in meta to this game and NMM XXXV, is or isn't good? What about his play this game is townlike? Discuss. | ||
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yamato77
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How nice of you to appear! What are YOUR thoughts on Yamato/Sloosh? You conveniently forgot to mention us in that post there. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 05:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not a fan of asking people to replace out due to skill level, but I don't think it's indicative of Mocsta's alignment. Taken with everything else, I think Mocsta is town. You know yamato for someone who's so against talking about townreads, you seem to be keen on asking people for theirs in the form of seeking arguments against your case. Are you aware of that? I'm just trying to understand how people view his alignment, to be honest, and to see their reasons for defending him. I really think he has a really good chance of being lynched, and I want information from people about him now rather than later when everyone realizes he's dead. | ||
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yamato77
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I think Mocsta could be lynched because Oats and JX share votes with me on him and Djo shows interest in the lynch. That's 4 people already. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 09:50 Mocsta wrote: Agreed. For me, its between him/yamato/jiexian. So your scumreads are three of the four people who think you might be mafia? Why do people think you're town again? | ||
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yamato77
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I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff. | ||
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yamato77
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With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch. Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution. I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me. I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good. | ||
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yamato77
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##Unvote ##Vote JieXian Or however you spell his name. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 13:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Either Yamato is scum or bad. I think bad is more likely Sorry yamato  Why do you think that? Perhaps some of what I've done this game hasn't gone the way I intended it to, but hey, shit happens. What about the things I am doing make you think I'm bad? I think I have a good chunk of the game figured out already. | ||
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yamato77
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TOWN Oats Sloosh VE Mocsta Jay Prplhz CC NULL Djo Phagga MAFIA Palmar JX Snarfs The only thing left to do in this game is lynch into/see more of the bottom five and figure out which one is the town player. Right now I'd pick Djo. I didn't list these in any particular order, but my town reads are all fairly decent at the moment. It would take a lot for me to change them. | ||
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yamato77
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Obviously some of you think he's mafia, such as jay and Oats, so why don't you guys make your own case? I think Djo made a decent point, yes, but I still think he might be town despite it. I thought my case was good, too, but he still might be town despite that. Yes, this is wishy-washy, as I've been accused of, but in all honesty D1 reads change very quickly. If you think I'm bad/scum for thinking he might be town after all this, you need to justify your read better. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 13:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: lol jay i barely read dessert, just did the sexy flavor. Oh Yamato and that list post. Palmar should be null imo Do you disagree with any of my reads? | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote: Djodref, I already explained. I did a randomization as well. and it listed you for lynch. Why can I not follow through with that? Why cant my RNG on you, be a valid medium for discussion. The day you tell me that you are willing to lynch yourself UNCONTESTED if your name pops up on the RNG, is the day I will actually give it real thought as a mechanism to fight scum. Mocsta, if my newly minted town read on you is correct, I would suggest you stop wasting your time debating RNG lynches and instead focus on what actually going on in the game. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 13:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Personally idk about Sloosh or prplhz being in the townie section. You seems to give town cred fairly easily. I don't even think I've earned a townie stamp as of yet. What would you consider if one of your 3 scummer reads were to flip town? One of JX and palmar is likely town. two mega lurker scum is unlikely. Town cred comes easily. One of the weaknesses of my play in the past was ignoring town tells, so I think I've gotten a lot better about that. There are four mafia, and of the four I think might be right now, Palmar is the most likely to be town because this type of behavior is alignment-null for him, in general. If we lynched him and he flipped town, I would say Mocsta and Djo would be the next two I would want to reassess. Right now I'm pretty sure about Sloosh/Prplhz/Oats/Jay/You though. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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Jay may not be playing superstar mode town, as he's often scummy even as town, but I don't think he's mafia. He was way lurky day 1 as mafia in Dessert and I caught him easy that game in obs so I'm not worried about him. What town needs now is to consolidate, and I don't think anyone would oppose a JX lynch. | ||
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yamato77
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Having played with him as mafia in Normal IV, he's like this as scum. He spams up the QT and only rarely posts in the thread. He's the best lynch for today by a mile. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 07 2013 23:05 Palmar wrote: I can't be much around today. Very quick reading makes me want to lynch cheescake, snarfs, prplhz maybe phagga or yamato So I'll leave my vote on prplhz Posts like these make me feel good about my red read on you. | ||
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yamato77
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JX Palmar Phagga Snarfs Lynch JX today, see which of them pop up tomorrow, if any, and go from there. Should be easy to lynch down this list and win. Everyone else has given me good reason to think them town, either through meta, activity, or simply giving a shit about what is going on today. Snarf's read in VE is an excuse to not comment on anything else except giving a really silly defense of Palmar when Palmar has only a couple votes at most. Phagga is more concerned with himself than finding mafia this entire game. He's the one I'm lest confident about on this team, but he's fairly red all on his own. Palmar is continuing to do nothing, but as has been said this is par for the course for him as any alignment. However, what he has contributed feels very superficial. His Bugs policy lynch from LVIII had more depth than his play this game. JX I have covered thoroughly. There's no reason to think he's town at all, especially since we're more than three quarters done with day 1. He dies today. | ||
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yamato77
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Let me know, concisely, why you think prpl is mafia. I don't think he is and I'll be glad to show why, but first I want you to explain it in short form, just the outline reasons. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 00:49 JieXian wrote: WAIT............ I was about to dig through Djo's filter but how is RNG possibly useful to lure scum? wtf? And sorry guys I posted yesterday and went to sleep, have been busy the whole day. I probably will be here for a few hours now. I'm sorry you rolled mafia two games in a row, JX. Kinda kills your will to play, huh? | ||
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yamato77
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Well, um, you're kinda going to die today. Any last words? | ||
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yamato77
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This is prplhz's filter from LIX where he was mafia, lynched D1. While this is only somewhat useful on its own, what is important to note is how he was caught that game, which was through analysis of his meta. So, at the very least, we can assume that some of his posting this game is similar to how he usually plays mafia, and especially so at the beginning of the game. So what characteristics do we use to define that filter? Trollish, disconnected, and overall useless to town. Devoid of reads, or any real interaction. Yes, at some point he realized he was dead and did nothing, but that wasn't the whole day. At least some part of that filter is indicative of his meta, and he hasn't matched it at all this game. On February 06 2013 21:50 prplhz wrote: I'm on page 15 and scrolling down and seeing who is discussing I just want to say something really quick. Oatsmaster, Mocsta: Stop focusing on each other. Just by your activity neither of you are up for lynch right now so stop focusing on each other. Whatever useful you could be doing by arguing with each other you've done it by now so quit it and stop messing the thread up. It is bloating the thread and for hardly any reason. Take a deep breath and a step back and focus on something else, if you want better reads on each other then just reread your discussion, I'm sure there's something you missed. Alright going to read page 15 now. But seriously, quit it and do something else. This is his first post this game. What is he doing here? Caring about town, and actually giving out reads. Town reads, but reads nonetheless, and some insight into how he got them. This is a stark difference from the trolly attitude he got caught with in LIX. On February 07 2013 04:39 prplhz wrote: Dude, just tell him now. You don't want slOosh and his case on your back today because you're going to end up getting lynched. The case is pretty decent and I'd say you stand a good chance of getting lynched today, or at the very least you're going to attract a lot of attention to yourself which is not something we generally want out of a townie on day 1. So just say what you found in phagga's filter that makes you see him as town in spite of how he has done things that put you on to your main scum read. Your excuse that you wont say because "mafia will just talk about it" doesn't hold. Your read is absolutely void unless you can explain it to other people in this thread so get going please. This post, he keeps with his pro-town theme and gives two more reads. He says I could be lynched, that he agrees with Sloosh's case. Again, he is thinking about who he wants to lynch, why he wants to lynch them, and being townie about it. The dude is green. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 01:14 prplhz wrote: Will people please comment on jaybrundage. JieXian sucks and he'll need to do something about that but in the meantime I want some feedback on jaybrundage. You think he's mafia because of the way he went about pressuring Djo, correct? I'll take a look, just because I think you're town and might be right. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 01:15 JieXian wrote: I'm not saying he's scum yet, I just can't rationalise with it. I'll decide after his promised post on VE Who is scum right now JX. Today is almost over and you've done nothing but make a case on Mocsta today, and now you're not even pushing that read. If you're town you have zero reason to play this way right now. | ||
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yamato77
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Jay, for instance, I said I would look into. How does he play as mafia? Aloof, trollish, lurky. Is he any of that this game? Maybe kind of lurky, but he did pressure Djo on a valid point. He backed off because he realized Djo might not be mafia after all. Why would a mafia player draw attention to himself with a dumb idea like a random lynch? As CC said, he's much more likely to be silly town like thrawn from Hero Mini. I think jay realized this somewhere along the line. He gets townie points for picking out JX as a read, too. No reason to think he's mafia yet, to be honest. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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JX, Palmar, Snarfs, Phagga Most of you want to lynch at least one of them, no? Why not lynch JX first? I want reasons he is town before we consider anyone else today. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 01:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also Yamato, I feel the need to say this. You are the towniest I've ever seen you in any game I've played with you. And that disturbs me lol. Your town play was always confirmation biased "kill cheesecake RAWR RAWR". Either your playing a great scumgame here or you've actually leveled your head. As far as I see it Oats, JX is equal to Palmar right now. Both have been similarly as useless, just throwing random names out there with little justification. JX seems scummier marginally. Palmar is all lurky and stuff, sure, but if he's town we will KNOW it tomorrow (or tonight). I agree wholeheartedly with what you say here. I feel exactly the same way. | ||
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yamato77
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Why are people switching off JX? I need to know why he's not dying if people want to lynch other people. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 01:46 Djodref wrote: @ yamato JieXian started to post. You were scum with him in your last game so I must admit I'm tempted to trust you on this one. Do you have anything more relevant that the fact that he lurked hardcore until now ? What is he doing with his posts right now? Defending himself. His read on Oats smells of total bullshit. Do you think Oats is mafia? I know JX is viewed as bad town, but come on. This is a weak attempt to get the lynch off him and the sad thing is that it's working. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 01:57 JieXian wrote: Tell me what's wrong with my case on oats. It's hardly random shit flinging when you have to refute it by saying "yeah man sometimes oats is obv scum" I have nothing on snarf or Djo. The problem is that you have a case on Oats but a vote on Palmar right when other people express interest in him. You scum, bro. | ||
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yamato77
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Case on Oats is total bullshit. CC don't succumb to confirmation bias. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 08 2013 03:49 Mocsta wrote: Funny how JX has gone quiet once I put him back in the limelight... Yamato I have a random question for you. If everyone bar two guys wanted to vote Oats and the two guys wanted to vote JX Do you think the two guys would get ignored? ======================= + Im going to bed its 2.50am here + I believe JX leads the vote count, lets keep it that way I don't think that is the case here but we'll see. JX probably going to die today once CC and company stop listening to the scum they wanted to lynch earlier. | ||
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On February 08 2013 04:05 prplhz wrote: I don't really think that JieXian is scum. His first post was crazy accusations against you for a singular reason (some self contradiction or whatever) and I don't think that's scummy. It also looked very spontaneous (you'll notice that he totally forgot his vote) which looks like he didn't reread or overthink what he was posting which is something I think is more of a townie tell than scum. Then he disappeared for a day and I believe he was actually just not here, not much to say about that. I don't think he's looked scum after he returned either. What I mean by "he sucks" is that he's spamming and being a nuissance but that doesn't mean that he's scum at all (case in point: you), to the contrary. He looks like he's posting what's on his mind right now and that immediate feeling to his posting is something I think is pretty townie. He's also mainly gone for Oatsmaster since he came back and that's a bit weird for a scum who's the alternative lynch I would think, he's likely going to get lynched over Oatsmaster because a bunch of people already said that Oatsmaster is not someone we want to lynch today so why isn't he going for an "easier" target in JieXian or Palmar? (I know he was on Palmar for a short while but read his filter and you can easily see that he actually really wants to lynch Oatsmaster) I still want to lynch jaybrundage. I know you were talking to Mocsta but I feel that he and I are on the same page on this thing right now so let me spell it out for you. This is how scum JX plays. It's low-content, spammy posts that serve nothing else than to get people to think he's playing his town meta, which is similar to what you describe. It worked on Djo for a while last game in Normal IV, and appears to be working this game to come extent, but it's still scum JX. He is not like this as town. While he isn't the most active, he certainly doesn't give a fuck about how other people think of him, which is not the impression I get from him this game. The damning thing is, look what he did with no pressure on him. Fuck all. A shit case and vote on Mocsta when he was under suspicion anyway. Now that the lynch is on his back he's suddenly active and shit, defending himself. Yes, this is confirming my own bias. No, I don't think he's town. I want to know his flip more than anything now that there's been a ton of discussion around it. Just read his filters from LIX, where he was town, and Normal IV where he was mafia with me, and see for yourself which JieXian we're witnesses to here. | ||
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But who does he have his vote on? Palmar. Why? Because he thought it could save his ass. What you think of Palmar doesn't even really matter, because this is scum behavior. Had he mentioned Palmar before that point? Not significantly. What this means about Palmar's alignment this game we can talk about after the flip, but for now we're lynching JX. It's around six or so hours until the deadline, so if you aren't going to vote him you should have a damn good reason not to. Prplhz, you specifically I want to respond to my town case on Jay. Look into his meta. If he's actually mafia we can take a look at him another day. | ||
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I agree with the worry of Sloosh. I was confident in him being town before but not anymore. He's null to me. Djo is pretty similar. At one point I thought he was town but his contribution is superficial. Regardless of the JX flip I think Palmar is claiming mafia to us with that last post about the lynch. See you guys a few hours after the flip. | ||
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In the mean time, I like Mocsta's train of thought about the lynch. Who seemed to not care? Reread and we'll talk about it on day 2. Peace. | ||
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Tomorrow night we can begin scum hunting like normal, but tonight we need to consider the setup more closely and try to prepare ourselves to properly analyze the mafia picks tomorrow. | ||
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Let's all afk until the day post and leave mafia to ruminate in silence. | ||
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If you're just dying to know what I think, sit on this: Why are you so concerned with what I'm doing with my reads when you don't have any to talk about? There's plenty of information on the table to make some decent reads right now. The fact that you have none, not even a town read, is disturbing. | ||
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On February 08 2013 16:01 jaybrundage wrote: I don't see discussion hurting town like ever in mafia. And i wasn't specifically calling you out I was saying the town in general. Unless Palmar disagree's with me I stick to my opinion. Why do you care at all about what Palmar has to say when he's done nothing this game? Discussion about reads hurts town right now. If you can't understand that, I don't even know what to say. If you want to talk about your itchy balls, go ahead, but telling people to give mafia ideas about who to pick is insane. | ||
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On February 08 2013 16:21 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi I'm drunks! We don't tslk about townreads at night in rrgulr games because scum just shoot them. In this one we don't know how they nominate or why. If we talk about scumreads maybe they put them up because they know they town. Or put up who everyonethinks is town. It only benifits scum. No one gonna die so no harm in waiting. Precisely. Thank you, drunk VE. | ||
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On February 08 2013 16:47 VisceraEyes wrote: Why does everyone think I'm scum all the time when I'm really not? It makes me mad AND sad. I supposed to be good at this game...or so people say. Why am I good if I just get lynched every game?  I shot you last game! Don't worry, you're only going to die this game if you're mafia. | ||
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Why? | ||
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I will not partake. /afk | ||
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We have around five and a half hours until the day post, there's no reason to make any assumptions about how the nominations will play out until we see them and some flips. | ||
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Honestly, after last night I think it's Sloosh. He looked like he was setting himself up for this, which is a weird assumption to make coming off his play yesterday. He says it is because mafia want him dead, and are using this as a potential NK on him, but is this really the case? Obviously one could assume that this is the approach mafia took, but the fact that he set this idea up before the candidates were posted makes me uneasy. If he's town I want to see it. Right now I don't think either of him or Palmar is town, but when I've thought about these nominations I've come to the conclusion that the most mafia would put up at one time would be one of their members, if at all. Therefor, with the selection of Mocsta as the third candidate, and not someone more ambiguous in alignment like VE or Jay, I believe mafia to have picked the two of them with the express intention of getting one of them killed. If there is a mafia in the group, I say it has to be Sloosh. I don't think mafia would put up a lurky Palmar already under suspicion for a lynch. I highly doubt that Mocsta is mafia at this point in time. Only Sloosh makes any sense from a mafia perspective at this point in time. It's true that he may be town, as all three certainly could be, but in this case I think our choice is still clear, we kill Sloosh. It's more of a process of elimination in this case, and I will explain at length below. Mocsta as town, while not known for the accuracy of his reads, is at least easy to read and active, which is more than enough reason to not kill him. Having the towniest people kept alive the longest benefits us in this situation. Eventually mafia will have no choice but to put themselves up against these ultra-town players in nominations, and that will be there undoing. Under no circumstances do I think we should even consider Mocsta as a choice. Palmar has a history of behaving exactly this way as town. While it makes him difficult to read, and rather useless to us at the present moment, I think with time we will know his alignment. Out of these three players, in this context, I do not think that Palmar is the best lynch out of them. It is certainly possible that he is town, being useless, and mafia put him up here hoping town chooses him and kills him off early before he actually gets rolling. As mafia, I do not think he would be put up here, because of the exact same logic, it would be quite easy for town to lynch him today based on his play yesterday. Sloosh is therefor the most likely mafia. His contributions to this game have been slim. I can summarize his play in two sentences. Day 1, he pressured me and then backed off. Night 1, he talked about being nominated and gave his speech about how town he'll be today. I do not think a town player would be as sure as he was that he would be nominated today. While I saw the possibility, I also saw other routes mafia could take. Furthermore, why would he, as town, want to make a perfectly good case for why he should be chosen for tomorrow's lynch nominations? I tend to believe this more likely coming from mafia, to set it up in people's heads that mafia is just trying to kill him indirectly because he is supposedly a dangerous town player to be left alive. My opinion may change today, as it is still early and there are many hours between now and the lynch, but based on what has happened up to this point, I think Sloosh is the most likely mafia. ##Vote: Sloosh | ||
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First, you have the all-town nominations, something that functions somewhat like an NK, only town chooses between 3 of your picks. Town, if they realize this might be the case, can counterplay by lynching the weakest townie of the group and going from there. It would have to be super transparent and all three people on the block would have to play along, something which is difficult to guarantee. Then you have some mix of mafia included. The danger with this is obviously that the mafia, or one of the two, has a real chance of dying. The advantage is that people are more likely to think all three are town than they are to believe that any one is mafia, because of this risk. The counterplay to this situation is to simply scumhunt, but the problem is going to be identifying whether mafia picked one if their own or not. The last, and absolutely least likely possibility is an all-mafia nomination group, where mafia bus one of their own and hope the act gains enough towncred to see them to lylo. Identifying this would be nearly impossible, as you're very unlikely to see three mafia flips before it means enough to catch another, but the risk of sacrificing a member for sure, and the risk of losing a member you didn't want to lose, should be enough to deter them from doing this. I think the most likely is 2 town 1 mafia. Just enough risk to make it worth it to put yourself on the line, but not enough as to truly hurt mafia's chances of winning if it goes wrong. Best case scenario, town lynches another townie and a mafia gains a little bit of defense of himself. Worst case scenario, you lose the mafia you put up, but you minimized the risk anyway and he wasn't super valuable. | ||
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You guys don't know how to focus. | ||
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On February 09 2013 12:59 Palmar wrote: None of us are mafia, just random lynch. Can kill me if you want to. I think this is the case also, but I think Sloosh is the best choice. If you live until tomorrow, play the damn game. | ||
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Sloosh? | ||
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Though, if we're going by your criteria, I fully expect Palmar to die today, which is less than ideal in my mind, as I explained before. You would have been my pick over him but I guess if you're playing and he's not, I'd rather have you live. ##Unvote | ||
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Ugh. Just kill him. Put him out of his misery. | ||
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On February 10 2013 05:49 phagga wrote: What's wrong with that post, can you explain please? He's not reading the thread, and he's admitting to being useless. If he's town we aren't losing anything. | ||
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Jesus. | ||
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I don't think it's any stretch to say everyone should be on board with killing Palmar today. Sloosh is townier by a mile and Palmar is obviously not even playing the game, so he should just die. If he's town, oh well, someone has to die, and he's admitted to us that he's going to do nothing. If he's mafia then his team is retarded, or he's too cocky for his own good. One thing I will say today is that I don't think VE is mafia at the moment. Drunk VE was very town last night. <3 drunk VE. | ||
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I don't think what people are calling him mafia for right now is very convincing stuff, as I said day 1 about Snarf's case, but I have no vested interest in defending him myself at this point in time. If he's town, he'll do just fine without me interjecting. It'll be a different deal if nothing changes tomorrow and people start throwing votes his way, however, and I still think he's town. Then you might see me defend him. | ||
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As for what it means about him, I don't know. My reaction is to think he's mafia but it's an emotional reaction that I shouldn't rely on. My reasons for wanting him lynched today have been transparent. I haven't sat on the idea of lynching him in the slightest, my process today has shifted from my earlier decision on Sloosh to my current opinion of Palmar and his commitment to the game. I didn't do this, as he suggests, because other people want to, I did this because I have new information about Sloosh and himself which led me here. I would be disappointed to find out this was town Palmar, but I suppose it wouldn't be surprising. If that's the case, I guess it was three townies, and I was wrong, but I'll talk more about that and what it means tomorrow. | ||
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Assume that Sloosh and Mocsta are town. With Palmar's green flip, that means that I was wrong and mafia decided to make the lynch a choice between three town players. They don't care who dies, really, because any of the three is good for them. So mafia are more inclined to not care at all what happens yesterday. They lurk, slap their vote somewhere, and do nothing relevant to the game because there is zero chance of them getting lynched and they have no reason to push a mafia agenda. So who fits this bill from yesterday? Snarfs, jay, and djo. Djo is the question mark of the three, because he simply didn't post at all. The other two, however, had very similar days and patterns of activity. They both slapped their vote on someone early, and then basically AFK'd. Right now, I think Snarfs is the best lynch because of this behavior and his similar behavior around the lynch day 1 where he didn't vote JX but rather put Hus vote on VE and used his 'case' as an excuse to not comment on the actual lynch. He should die today. ##Vote Snarfs As for other reads, obviously I think jay is an acceptable alternative lynch candidate. I defended him early day 1 but since then he's done very little, which is more in line with how I view his scum meta. When he's town he at least cares enough to post his thoughts, but this game he's not even doing that anymore and is probably mafia for it. Phagga is scummy, as others have outlined. I don't see him as red as I do snarfs or jay, but he's on my radar. If I was making a hypothetical scum team, I'd say the fourth might be Oats. In the past day his activity has dropped off a cliff and I don't know what his reads in the game are anymore. He seems to be sticking to his guns from day 1 but has no new information to support his reads and hasn't been very active in the game. For town reads, Mocsta and Sloosh look really town to me, mostly from their play while under the gun. I'm more confident on Mocsta than Sloosh, but I would defend either one's towniness. VE and prplhz are also both town to me, despite other player's suspicions of them. If I need to defend them today, I will, because neither show scum traits to me at all. Cheesecake, you asked for my read on you. You lean town to me, but you're real blendy and not at all confrontational like I think town CC is. I suppose you haven't been accused seriously yet, but you also aren't going out of your way to pressure your reads like I think town CC usually does. You're more null than I expected at this point in the game. If you guys think I'm mafia for serious, come at me, but neither case from yesterday is at all good. I've been the towniest yamato of all time. Bring the cases on. | ||
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Should I have included the post of jay's where he claims to have no reads? And all the ones he admits that he's just waiting on Palmar to post so he can sheep him? Yeah... | ||
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Some time today I will defend myself from these erroneous cases but I'm telling you guys, I'm not mafia. Look at my mafia games. I do not play like this as mafia. | ||
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I don't spend a lot of time caring about defending myself. Whoopie. I never do. You're not going to lynch me for that. I think about other people's reads when considering the lynch candidacy of one of my reads. Who doesn't? If I only push one scum read a day and don't consider other people who are also scummy that other people want to lynch, what good does that do for town? I only have scum reads on "lurkers". Not true. Activity level is a part of people's general meta, but my case on Snarfs includes the fact that his activity shows a disinterest in the affairs of town, espcially on day 2, which I think is obviously scummy when you consider the possibility of three town players being up for the lynch, as I outlined earlier. I'm not lynching them for not posting, I'm lynching them because their inactivity is INDICATIVE of a MAFIA MENTALITY. Jay I am losing interest in as a candidate. I can understand how people MIGHT view some of the things I do as scummy, or bandwagony. When I look at who I want to lynch, I first consider my own reads, and then the reads of people that I think are town. If there's a correlation, then it becomes obvious to me that I should push that read as the lynch. If you think this is mafia mentality, then I guess I'll only ever disagree with town and never agree to lynching someone other people want to lynch. Hipster-town-mode ENGAGED. Furthermore, if people think this is how I play as mafia, they are sorely mistaken. I don't give a shit about anything as mafia. Look at my two mafia games. Do I make analysis posts? Do I make towncases? Do I change my reads? No. Have I done that this game? Yes. Any perceived change from my town meta is a POSITIVE one, in that I'm not picking stupid fights, not arguing with my scum reads, and not tunneling one player endlessly. If you guys lynch me for that, I quit this game. Yes, I take this seriously. It frustrates the shit out of me this game that I am being discussed as a lynch candidate. I am putting in more effort than most of you this game in figuring out what's going on, and you are all listening to Palmar, who wasn't even fucking playing the damn game. Fuck that. | ||
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Stop being a sheep, jay. | ||
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On February 12 2013 12:32 Mocsta wrote: Dude, WTF is this shit. You vote me, I make a counter-case; you drop it. You have issues with Jay; he makes counter-case; you drop it. And you drop it without gving any reasons. Thats fuckn scummy and you know it. I think this is misleading information. I dont know much about your first scum game. But I know two things about your second scum game. (1) You were playing Mafia LIX as a mason simultaneously (2) You came in as a replacement for a false miller claim, and partnered with JX who was doing fuck all. I can see clear reasons for lack of motivation in your second scum game. Hence, I dont know what to expect of you via scum meta, and instead choose to judge by what actions in your filter. We're all putting in effort and figuring things out yam; dont get on a high horse like your shit doesnt stink. Stop being dumb, jay made no "counter-case". He's just a sheep of Palmar. I am realizing this as I go along. You need to get out of your confirmation bias and do something productive besides argue with people endlessly this game. Your amount of analysis is pathetically low in this post. | ||
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I'll be back tomorrow when all of you are gone so I can get something done ITT. | ||
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Palmar did play bad this game. I have no problem saying that. Just because he flipped town doesn't suddenly mean his reads are 100% correct. I happen to know they aren't. So what are you doing to do tomorrow when I flip town and mafia puts up three more town players and then it's mylo, huh? Go around sheeping Palmar's reads then? How is that productive for town? Your case is just an extension of his, which I already addressed. I've addressed all of the main points I could find against me. If you don't believe me, I don't care, because right now I really don't even want to play in this game. People aren't even reading my posts. | ||
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Oats, your vote on me contains zero justification. I think my gutshot scumread on you is stronger than before because of this. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:23 jaybrundage wrote: 1 Hey last game I was scum I used attacks on Bugs to rile him up and make him not think clearly. Nicely done. 2 Stop using emotional bullshit to try to pull out a response from people. Also you refuse to find a second candidate. WTF is this? If your town then start looking. Snarfs is not gonna be killed today. I have said this like three times and you refuse to answer. WHAT'S YOUR SECOND SCUM READ READ MY POSTS WHERE I NAME CC AND OATS AS MAFIA Jesus, you're almost as bad as Mocsta. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:29 Mocsta wrote: lol almost.. nice name throw yamato jay.. you need to take a step back, your getting way too heated oats thrives on these confrontations; let it go (for the time being) yam is intentionally baiting you now; just take a breather pls I'm not "intentionally baiting" anyone. You guys are accusing me of points I have already addressed or things that are simply untrue. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:33 Oatsmaster wrote: Fuck, Jay doesnt know how to play. Shit. We are doomed !!!! Jay, just because 2 of your scumreads call each other scum, doesnt mean that they are bussing each other because NONE OF THE FLIPPED YET. There is an element of trickery in bussing your scummate because you want to be able to back off if you feel that it is scummy, and push him when you feel that it makes you look townier. Explain how VE calling Prp scum, is VE bussing Prp. Stop. Talking. About. Bussing. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:33 jaybrundage wrote: Yamato do you have a town read on VE. Also why do you have a town read on VE I haven't even had time to filter him yet because all I've done since opening the thread is defend myself from these attacks. Do you understand how this makes me frustrated? It's a waste of time for me to do this, because as town my job is to FIND MAFIA. But if you guys are trying to lynch me, I better make sure that doesn't happen. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:35 jaybrundage wrote: What is the point of this post? Bussing happens why do you refuse to acknowledge it. Because you're making stupid association cases before the flip. It's incredibly wasteful discussion. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:36 jaybrundage wrote: Yamato why am i not scum Because scum jay wouldn't openly sheep Palmar. Scum jay barely even had reads to begin with, not even sheep reads. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:36 Mocsta wrote: Umm .. no I am accusing you of not addressing things directed your way. and by all fuck am I NOT going to link those posts to you. Then instead of addressing your critics, you sling shit everywhere and go ultra-derogatory. Sorry yam; are you genuinely telling me that is pro-town yamato behaviour? I dont recall you asking like this in your mason game in mafia LIX, and I had you as a town read pretty early on. Fact is, yamato scum is NOT afraid to bus (that is clear from Normal Mini 4, where you bussed JX pretty much immediately) ARE YOU READING?!?!?!?!!? On February 12 2013 12:02 yamato77 wrote: What would you say the main points against me are? I don't spend a lot of time caring about defending myself. Whoopie. I never do. You're not going to lynch me for that. I think about other people's reads when considering the lynch candidacy of one of my reads. Who doesn't? If I only push one scum read a day and don't consider other people who are also scummy that other people want to lynch, what good does that do for town? I only have scum reads on "lurkers". Not true. Activity level is a part of people's general meta, but my case on Snarfs includes the fact that his activity shows a disinterest in the affairs of town, espcially on day 2, which I think is obviously scummy when you consider the possibility of three town players being up for the lynch, as I outlined earlier. I'm not lynching them for not posting, I'm lynching them because their inactivity is INDICATIVE of a MAFIA MENTALITY. Jay I am losing interest in as a candidate. I can understand how people MIGHT view some of the things I do as scummy, or bandwagony. When I look at who I want to lynch, I first consider my own reads, and then the reads of people that I think are town. If there's a correlation, then it becomes obvious to me that I should push that read as the lynch. If you think this is mafia mentality, then I guess I'll only ever disagree with town and never agree to lynching someone other people want to lynch. Hipster-town-mode ENGAGED. Furthermore, if people think this is how I play as mafia, they are sorely mistaken. I don't give a shit about anything as mafia. Look at my two mafia games. Do I make analysis posts? Do I make towncases? Do I change my reads? No. Have I done that this game? Yes. Any perceived change from my town meta is a POSITIVE one, in that I'm not picking stupid fights, not arguing with my scum reads, and not tunneling one player endlessly. If you guys lynch me for that, I quit this game. Yes, I take this seriously. It frustrates the shit out of me this game that I am being discussed as a lynch candidate. I am putting in more effort than most of you this game in figuring out what's going on, and you are all listening to Palmar, who wasn't even fucking playing the damn game. Fuck that. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:44 Mocsta wrote: yep I read that.. and its a politician speech what did you actually address that was your way fuck all man u just did a summary "im teflon" speech You can't read. /ignore | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:50 jaybrundage wrote: If Palmar has bad reads why wouldn't i sheep them as scum. @Oats I fail to see what you are trying to do. Scum jay wouldn't admit to sheeping, because it draws attention to the fact that he's not making independent analysis. Town jay doesn't care, and often gets lynched for saying scummy things like that. Why are you arguing with me about this? Mocsta's dumb argument that I "give up" my scum reads is blatantly false. Plenty of people opposed my opinion on JX, on Prplhz, on YOU, on Palmar, etc., yet I persisted. Because I'm town, and confident in my reads, wrong or not. | ||
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On February 12 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote: I am not sure what your talking about; I dont recall building a case on you as the points were already highlighted by others. What I have requested is you address the points; you refuse to. each and every time. That summary post of yours, is not how to make a defense (if your serious about being town) if you are the vote leader (which either you are, or pretty fuckn close) I did address them. If you can't read that post and understand how the arguments I outlined there are false, you have comprehension problems, and I can't help that. Go away. | ||
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FUNNY HOW THAT WORKS | ||
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You say you don't want to lynch Snarfs. why? | ||
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I need better than that. What about his play suggests town to you at all? He's tunneled VE all game and done shit else. If the problem is that you view VE as mafia, I can address the points Sloosh raises against him some time tomorrow, but I want you to filter Snarfs and think about his alignment first. | ||
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On February 12 2013 14:28 Mocsta wrote: I already said with snarfs. I think he made his case on ve too early instead of establishing innocence and that was why he cops grief. I think his case on VE was just an excuse to do nothing else that day. I think his play day 2 shows a complete lack of interest in town's affairs, because it didn't matter to him who died since they were all town. I think even his play today shows how little he cares about interacting with town and actually hunting scum, because he just comes in, plops down some reads and then AFKs. He SHOULD get flak for this kind of play, because it's scummy. | ||
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The evidence isn't SUPER strong, but I am confident in prplhz being town. Him coming to the correct conclusion from my analysis of him helps, too. Buddying ftw. | ||
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I filtered the both of them and I think I might be wrong on the interaction there. | ||
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On February 12 2013 01:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato Because Jay said that Palmar said so I haven't really given a serious look at Yamato until today. I initially wrote him off, because he was the towniest Yamato I've ever seen. In our history, he was always flaming with bias and emotionally posting. He drove the JX lynch home, but it was more lazy posting instead of emotional. This game he is more level-headed, and I just kinda threw a 'leaning town' stamp on him and let it be. Palmar apparently was going for something with Yamato, and Jay just reiterated it. I still think it is bad how Jay went after Yamato like that, but I have to consider that maybe he / Palmar are right. I'm filter diving and coming to my own conclusions on Yamato. On Jay's points: Yamato's flip-flop on Mocsta From Jay's case, I found it hard to get the grip on this point (he was basically summarizing). The first two pages on his filter are anti-Mocsta and then suddenly out of nowhere is: His Mocsta alignment case wasn't getting any traction, so he switches base. This IS a bit odd. Especially for Yamato. The Yamato I know was always ridden with tunneling and never let up. Conceding his position is, from what I'd consider, unlikely for town Yamato. Also, this is bad reasoning for a town Mocsta from him: Both alignments respond to cases. A matter of effort is not alignment indicative. JX Vote Where was JX before in Yamato's thinking? I completely missed this tbh. Not much to say about it other than lolwut. List post: Lists are scummy brah. I have no idea why he thinks I'm town: We've barely even talked. I think our interactions are null at this stage? I don't recall him taking a look at me. Why is he writing me off as town? I'm less concerned about his scumreads, because those conclusions can come from either alignment. I just don't know why certain people have earned the Yamato green stamp of approval. Prphlz town read: Mainly a meta case and two quotes saying that he's pro town. Why doesn't Yamato think he can be mafia faking this sentiment? Eeerrrr it's such an easy thing to just slap this town label on someone and never rethink it. The only time I played scum was with Debears, and he did this stuff to me all the time. Beefed up my townie image by defending me and saying I was pro-town because 'insert midly townish post here'. It may be the same case here. Yamato Today Even if Snarfs fits that bill, this is a shitty reason to be voting people alone. I don't agree that we should be looking mainly at activity from the nomination lynch. It's like a cop-out on forming decent reads... Also, he just calls me blendy and null reads me when I ask him to look into me. Seriously, I give him a GOLDEN opportunity to get some information about me, which I will respond to. He just null reads like a boss. Why doesn't he want to snuggle up with me and get to know each other? Town Yamato loves to interact / cuddle with me. Scum Yamato is afraid because he knows I'll call him out on his BS. I'd consider lynching Yamato today. My gut tells me to go all wagon of justice lynch Snarfs mode. Unfortunately he's another fucking lurker right now. I need to hear more than 'Oh I'm going to be doing family things! Lynch VE bro's, here are some scummers that are a good choice. Luckily I have alllll day to question him. That is, if he'll respond. @Snarfs Hey Snarfs, Snarfypoo. Can I call you Snarfypoo? You know, you're playing this Mafia game right now and it would be really cool if you did things. Two things: Why shouldn't I lynch you right now? and Top scumreads, minus VE. I know your stance on him. Give reasoning. Be cool and awesome like that. This is AFTER he argues with jay about his case on me and calls it bad. | ||
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On February 13 2013 01:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Like, ugh, why aren't we lynching snarfs right now. He fits scum absolutely perfectly. Where is my vote? VE's post last night was a bit reassuring. The fact that he didn't banwagon on to me when it was absurdly easy to do so is encouraging. | ||
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On February 13 2013 02:14 phagga wrote: *facepalm* that was a general comment. I was not discrediting prplhz. The comments about him were just an example. And why are you never answering my questions? I try not to waste my time talking to mafia. | ||
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If you have anything else, consolidate it into concise points, and I will respond equally concisely later. | ||
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I LOVE THE SMELL OF ROASTED MAFIA IN THE MORNIN' | ||
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First of all, consider how day 1 went down. Who had a case shoved at them really early? Mocsta. Who defended him? Plenty of people. If he's mafia, some of those people are inevitably also mafia, but some of them are town. So day 2 rolls around, and mafia is aware of two scummy looking town players, and one mafia player who a bunch of people read town. What's the risk in putting Mocsta up? Slim to none. Palmar or Sloosh was almost assuredly going to die that day. Lo and behold, a green head rolls, and Mocsta gets some cheap town cred for being in the gallows. Day three, who were Mocsta's scum reads? Me, who he relentlessly tunneled to the point of ABSOLUTE STUPIDITY, only to drop it on a moment's notice when I made one small post about why I switched my read on him day 1. Why didn't he make a point about it being scummy day 1 if he actually viewed it that way? He was on my case, complaining at me, but was there even a peep about it then? Nope. He lynched JX happily along with me, so I thought at the time he read me town. Then day 3 rolls around and it's all cool to have a scumread on me, so he does, because blendy scum is fucking blendy. He has to make up some stupid reason to have one, though, so he drums up some absurdly fake shit about how my read switches were "scummy" and I "drop my suspicions" too fast when the two previous days I stuck to my guns on JX and Palmar pretty fucking hard, and they both flipped town. Again, why is this popping up day 3? Opportunism. Just like his jump on to Snarfs: On February 13 2013 09:22 Mocsta wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote: Snarfs Its actually pretty weird he hasnt been present at all recently; especially now he is vote leader, and cant even make a statement. HOLY SHIT BATMAN THAT'S A SCUMMY VOTE RIGHT THERE. Before this, he was shouting VE's name from the rooftops. "LYNCH HIM, HE'S SCUM!" I call bullshit. ##Vote Mocsta | ||
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I'm trying to figure this game out, and lynching Mocsta first helps me tremendously in doing so, aside from the fact that he's nominated. Phagga I read null. Everyone has called him scum all game casually, it's too easy. but he is scummy, so I need flips to prove him. Prplhz I think is town. I'd be willing to bet on it tomorrow. Today, though, we lynch Mocsta, because neither CC or Sloosh is a good candidate at all. CC being picked into this group is insanely silly for mafia to do. Sloosh might still be mafia, but Mocsta is the best candidate right now. | ||
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BLENDY. | ||
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You have zero reason to be calling me scum aside from the fact that I'm calling you scum. roflroflrofl | ||
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From 2 mafia flips, I can find the other two. If I'm wrong, you're probably right and we can lynch VE. But I don't think I'm wrong, and I don't think CC is mafia at all, so you get to die. Unless you think I should want to kill Sloosh over you? | ||
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CC too easy. | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:08 jaybrundage wrote: I stopped pushing you as well cause we needed town to consolidate. Thats why i went with VE instead. Regardless I dont think hes mafia. I think there isn't much of a case The question is, who do you think is mafia TODAY? You should think about it and consider it because I'm telling you, IT MATTERS. If not Mocsta, who? I want to know. CC? Why? Sloosh? Why? Give me some reasons. | ||
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You still have to make a decision. So make one, and justify it, bitch. | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:27 Mocsta wrote: Look at yamato try to filter bury Look at Mocsta calling me scum with zero justification. You gave up your only leg to stand on when you unvoted me, BRAH | ||
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Wouldn't they try to put up different people that others read town in the hopes that they get lynched instead? Doesn't the idea of using it as an NK necessitate that people actually want to lynch the people you're putting up, a la Palmar day 1? So why pick CC? Because they want him dead. Why? Because he's town. By the virtue of how the lynch went down day 2, there is zero reason to think that CC is actually mafia, and that lynching him today is at all a good idea, EVEN IF you think all three people are town, because he is the absolute LEAST likely to be mafia of the three. So why not lynch Mocsta or Sloosh? At this point I'll take either, because I think they both might be mafia, but I prefer Mocsta because I'm more confident in him than Sloosh. We need to talk about this and not just randomly sheep our votes somewhere, because that is what mafia would want us to do in this situation. That's why I asked jay to comment, and why him not commenting is damning evidence in my eyes. If Mocsta and Sloosh are both mafia, jay has been pushing the same agenda as them the whole game, right up to right now. They don't want us to think about the lynch today because there is actually a chance at catching mafia if we do. They want us to think that all three are town, and that our choice barely matters. BUT IT DOES MATTER. Read my analysis of the likelihood of the nomination possibilities. I don't think mafia would ONLY put up town players the whole game. They would almost certainly take chances, especially with the first nomination. They could put up a town player EVERYONE wants to lynch and bet that he doesn't prove himself town, and then slap ANYONE next to him for a safe way to gain town cred. It especially works if everyone think they are all town anyway. But their mistake was doing it twice, because it made it too obvious. There's no fucking way mafia would put up two guys that were clearly not getting lynched day 2 again day 4 if both of them were town. They would if they were mafia, though. | ||
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It's like, really scummy. | ||
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Like, that is not how town players respond. You really have no logical basis to stand on. TOWN, TALK TO ME YOU LURKY FUCKERS | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote: K guys, I think that Mocsta is misguided town. I also suggest that we lynch slOosh today, as I have already voted. Why | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:54 Mocsta wrote: ?? Reads pretty logical to me. Night Yam-Yam. Stop being a try-hard now will ya. Don't get mad that I caught you. I know it sucks to lose, especially when you've put in as much effort as you have, but it'll be okay. | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, chill the fuck out and associate your scum with the already flipped scum, Snarfs. I suggest you start with CC because he actually might get lynched today, other than your other scum reads Oats, why do you think Mocsta is town? I want to argue you down from this crazy position. | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:57 Mocsta wrote: Noted Oats. & agreed. So far, only you and Jay have chipped in. Want feedback from the other town members before making a fully fleshed out case. "I want other people's reads before I can make my own so I can steal reasoning" | ||
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On February 14 2013 16:57 Oatsmaster wrote: I think Mocsta is town, because he is so happy for finding the whole scum team. As scum, I found it hard to find more than 1 or 2 good fake reads Maybe Mocsta is good at mafia? It happens. | ||
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On February 14 2013 17:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Yeah, I don't think it's that likely. Now who are you.gonna lynch today Yamato? Mocsta, because I do think it's likely. Are you reading the thread, Oats? | ||
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When two people get put up for nomination in both of the ones we've had, IT MAKES YA THINK | ||
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On February 14 2013 17:10 Oatsmaster wrote: My apologies. Do you have any other scum reads? Can you try and convince me? What about the stuff I have posted isn't convincing? | ||
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I'm going to reread the whole game and see if there is anything that makes me doubt this conclusion. | ||
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On February 15 2013 00:55 phagga wrote: If you look at the nomination for D1, you see a lurking Palmar, a sloosh that just got heat for his low activity on the end of D1 and a Mocsta who has established himself as town. Therefor, if any of the three are mafia, Mocsta is your best bet, as the chances at start of D1 look pretty good for him. However, in that case the scum team would have known that sloosh and Palmar are town. They must have seen slooshs post that he will be more active D2 and prove that he is indeed town. Also, Palmar could come back any time, bring out his best play and rape the scum team (noone knew why he was lurking at that point). Do you really think that with this knowledge, the scum team would risk a player that has established himself successfully as town? I personally doubt it. I thought day 1 that the chances of Palmar playing this game and being active enough to not get lynched day 2 in the situation he was put in was low, and it turned out to be right. I don't know, maybe mafia thought the same. If it is three town nominations all the time, it would be very boring. But if it is Mocsta and not Sloosh as well, it does seem reasonable. I don't think people were going to lynch him day 2 after what happened day 1, no matter how town Palmar and Sloosh appeared to be day 2. I'm trying to understand what mafia are doing with these nominations because ignoring them seems really fucking stupid. I want the flip of one of the two that have been nominated twice, because I think either night be mafia, and I want confirming information about what mafia is doing with these. Lynching Cheese is silly in this situation, given how day 2 went down almost the same way. | ||
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On February 15 2013 01:07 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually yamato, if Palmar showed up big, Mocsta gets instantly lynched for being the worst town player. I agree with phagga at this point. So THEREFORE. We lynch slOosh. No one is responding to my case. I'll look at sloosh and your case before I go to work later. Right now I have class. | ||
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Time to mulligan again. It worked last time with VE/Snarfs, in that I came to the same conclusion after rereading, so we'll see tonight how this goes. | ||
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My preference is Mocsta because he's overall a worse player and is acting very scummy with regards to how he has responded to my speculative posts about the possibility of him/sloosh/jay being mafia. To call me mafia in reaction with no justification after jumping OFF my wagon and watching the SCUM I wanted to die get lynched, is a bit more than I care to explain away with "stupid town" at the moment. However, I cannot deny that there are town tells in his filter that have previously influenced my read, so I'm left at a crossroads with a very unclear plan of action to go forward unless I see him die. I no longer think that sloosh and mocsta are both mafia, but I consider the possibility quite strong that at least one of them might be, because of how I view the nominations. Perhaps they aren't as important as I want them to be, however, because everyone else seems to be content with the idea of it being three town players, so that probably means I'm just being really stupid, because I am honestly one of the worst players in this regard; I fall for conspiracy theories all the time. Idk. It's 1 AM, I've had a horrid day at work, and I come back to find myself at a loss of what to do right now. | ||
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What about the post I made has certain scum written on it? | ||
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I don't even know how you can view what I was doing as "burying", which is nearly impossible to prove anyway | ||
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On February 15 2013 16:42 Mocsta wrote: consider this.. all your posts were short, aggressive, and in my opinion flaming emotion.; i did not think the content was beneficial either. I thought the above so strongly; I felt the need to repost a couple of my posts. I took it as burying with that context. Why would I care about burying posts where all you do in them is call me mafia with ZERO justification aside from blatant OMGUS. Even still, you claim to have come to this point on some basis that I was likely mafia before, so how did you reach that conclusion when yesterday you made a point of unvoting me? It makes no sense. | ||
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It's a laborious process that I used to do when I debated, and I don't enjoy it anymore. I want concise arguments that get to the real crux of the matter, because that's how I tend to post, and that's how I like to respond. Really, it's about HOW each of you reacted to the pressure I put on you that made me view you as town. You both took it very seriously that I was mafia for being so misleading in my accusations that I think it difficult to fake as mafia. | ||
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##Vote: Prplhz Sloosh probs right on this one. | ||
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On February 16 2013 14:32 jaybrundage wrote: Are you not even going to commentate on your bad case on Mocsta and suspicion on people for no damn reason. Regardless I prplhz does look bad. Not sure who i prefer him or phagga tho. What's the point? He's dead and I was wrong, so what? We had to lynch someone anyway. Might as well have been him. | ||
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So what does this mean? Day 4, the chances of mafia putting up CC, who was under a little heat the day before, as a nomination against two townie players in Sloosh and Mocsta is very low. Palmar had been lynched over those two. Palmar. The risk would have been too high. No, it's far more likely that CC is just someone they thought they wanted dead. That's exactly how they've been using the nominations so far; put up three people you want dead and let town argue over which one is the best to lynch. It fits with how I caught Snarfs, and the logic I posted on day 3. With that in mind, Jay is likely mafia. Prplhz is likely mafia. Either one of them dying is a good outcome today, in my opinion, but I feel more strongly about Prplhz than I do jay. The fact that he hasn't managed to post any meaningful analysis of anything in a very long time leads me to believe that he's lost interest in the game, which is a mafia tell, if I remember correctly. As a game goes on, mafia tend to care less about keeping up with the game and posting in it. The fact that he, on day 1, wasn't matching the scum meta he got caught with is no longer relevant to my read on him. I highly doubt that he is town. Jay is in a similar boat. While his activity hasn't declined, it hasn't ever been that high in the first place. His lack of original reads and general "go-with-the-flow" mentality is a difference from his town play, which is to come up with reads, right or wrong, and be convinced of them. He's blendy, and very non-confrontational. His pressure of me was very much a sheepish move to make, because it was en vogue at the time. Him being town is more likely than Prplhz, but still not very likely. By elimination, the third mafia is one of VE/Debears/Oats/Phagga. Phagga has been oddly absent today, but his play yesterday does not fit into my idea of mafia at all. He was quite town with his analysis of the nomination possibilities and their likelihoods. While this isn't a particularly difficult thing to make as mafia, it is still information that he decided to give to town, which is a point in his favor. However, his early game was truly atrocious. I'm having a difficult time getting a good read on him, but at the moment my gut tells me town. Debears so far looks fairly town. I think he's right about jay, which is a point in his favor. I think he's been aggressive with it, which is another point in his favor. It's hard to say with any certainty because from this role we have missed two of the four days worth of information, so I have less to run off of. Time may tell with him, but I would bet on town at this point. VE is... difficult. The fact that Snarfs chose him as his only read the whole game is kind of encouraging as to him being town, but the fact that he never pushed it, even when the VE wagon was a real thing, is odd. VE seems town at a glance, simply because he's been very level-headed and calm, but I know he is a good player and capable of playing pro-town as mafia. OVERALL, I think the chances of him being mafia are quite low, especially given how the lynch played out yesterday, so he's probably town. Oats is like, truly unreadable. He's done many insanely stupid things this game, but isn't that how town Oats plays? If all three of the above are town, as I think, he's probably mafia, simply by process of elimination. I posted my reasons for why I felt that way at the beginning of day 3 and not much has changed, to tell the truth. I'm reasonably convinced he's likely mafia. In straight up, town to scum list form: [b]Cheesecake Sloosh Debears VisceraEyes Phagga Oats Jay Prplhz | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Wonderful way to play mafia. explain how VE is town given the events of yesterday? He was the opposition wagon to a scum lynch, who the scum that was lynched wanted to lynch? If it was two mafia, I would be surprised. | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:28 jaybrundage wrote: Ok first off Palmar threw a little suspicion on you before he died. But no one else even commentated on you. Till my big case on you. If I recall correctly VE had 2-3 votes. With no one being on you till I made my case and start pushing you. So dont give me that go with the flow crap. Also the VE lynch I was all for it and when people pushed snarfs I was agaisnt it cause I had a (bad) town read on him due to a pre-association case. So regardless of the way the thread was going I wanted to lynch VE You openly sheeped Palmar in the case you made. You do not get to take any originality credit for it, not one bit. | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:30 Oatsmaster wrote: No flipped scum were on his wagon. There have been no scum flips since then. What's this about, Oats? Gotta push that mafia agenda? | ||
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On February 17 2013 14:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont see how you can say all the scum were on his wagon, therefore VE is town, when only one was on it that we know for sure I'm not saying VE is town because ALL the scum wanted to lynch him, I'm saying that he was the wagon that ran AGAINST the mafia wagon, which makes it unlikely that he is also mafia. I imply that mafia were on his wagon, and if my analysis was correct, TWO WERE, but I do not factor that in to the read process. | ||
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Yeah, no. I'm done with this conversation. You're not going to talk me out of a town read that you're not even trying to lynch. | ||
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Why would I answer questions from the player I am calling mafia about why I think he's mafia? Why does he want to know the answer? Because he wants to argue with me, to prove that he's not mafia, even though he's not up for the lynch and I'm not pushing for his lynch. Why would you want to talk me out of a town read of mine you don't even want to lynch, and indeed didn't want to lynch yesterday when the dust settled? Why do you want to argue against perfectly valid and accepted logic about his alignment as it relates to the lynch on day 3? Because you don't want town to figure the game out, and having people on the right track is bad. Oats, you're pushing a mafia agenda. If you don't think VE is town, make a fucking case. I'm not going to sit here and argue with you on the matter. Goodnight. | ||
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Also, will you lynch prplhz with me? I want answers to my points for and against prplhz and phagga from you tomorrow when I look at the thread. | ||
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I don't know how debears is more sure of jay than prplhz, but that's really splitting hairs at this point, because I think they're both mafia. | ||
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On February 18 2013 08:47 prplhz wrote: If any of you are going to bed before deadline, I'm town. If that's true, it's highly disappointing. What are your reads right now? | ||
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Who do you think is mafia? | ||
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Gonna read Shaggy tonight and give you guys my read. Last scum has to be between him and VE, so solidifying my read on him will be useful. | ||
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Wtf? | ||
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"I have a town read on Oats because he's pushing for discussion" - VE "Discuss stuff, even though I'm not!" - Oats Roflroflrofl | ||
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Guess who's town? Me! | ||
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Because I'm drunk ##Vote Sloosh /thread | ||
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Wtf. We keep you alive until endgame, because why? I say we kill you today and mod confirm what Mafia has been doing with the nominations. Jay pushing mafia agenda, so him suggesting not lynching you is hilariously bad. Just makes me want to lynch you more. I'd rather scumhunt like normal. On that note, I'm going to read VE/Phagga and see if I can figure the both of them out. | ||
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Oats is probably not mafia Jay is almost certainly mafia VE looks way worse Sloosh is meh, his meta suggests town Phagga looks like mafia CC is probably town Jay/Phagga/VE are my current reads Jay I've explained. Phagga has some townie looking moments but is overall pushing a mafia agenda. Day 1 he pushed JX and did not much else. Since then he's been blend as fuck. VE has done shit all this game. He wasn't even responsible for Snarf's lynch. He wanted prplhz to die over him. I think his Snarfs read was just too look good if he got caught and flipped mafia. He never pushed him, as he claimed. He barely pushed anyone. He makes his reasons and then afk's. I think he might be the piece of the puzzle I've been missing. | ||
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On February 12 2013 08:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I'm starting to get a sense of what's going on here. prplhz is Mafia Palmar knew it, I ignored it, now I gotta do something about it. prplhz did nothing over the course of D1 aside from ask Djodref about RNG, tell Mocsta and Oats to stop yelling at each other, and ask people over and over what they think about his "case" on jaybrundage. I put case in quotations there because his case is basically "he feels a little elusive and mild and *shrug*" but apparently that's enough for prplhz. What I find interesting about that is he claims he had no strong scum suspects D1...but apparently I haven't been doing shit all game right? Why wasn't I a suspect to prplhz? Oh that's right, at the end of D1 when the shit was uncertain surrounding the lynch, that is when all of a sudden prplhz would lynch VE over JX. Which begs the question: why didn't he raise me as a lynch candidate before then? If he was opposed to the JX lynch, why didn't he offer me up sooner than a couple hours before the lynch? prplhz is my strongest read by far and I prefer a prplhz lynch today. Snarfs is Mafia Snarfs has rubbed me the wrong way all game. His initial case on me was so bad that it got my attention, and the way he pushed it (or NOT pushed it more accurately) felt scummy all game long. He continues to do nothing, which kinda makes me a little queasy, but overall he's firmly in the red for me. If I can't get a prplhz lynch today, I would lynch Snarfs. ##Unvote ##Vote: prplhz On February 12 2013 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote: And actually before I go ##Unvote ##Vote Snarfs Oats I think Snarfs more likely today...but if that changes I SWEAR I'll be back. My vote is on prolhz in spirit. Now you're just lying, VE. | ||
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Either way you take this, you're mafia. Either you pushed a mafia agenda Day 3 and lied about it, or forgot you did it. Either way it's scummy, and either way I'm going to get you lynched tomorrow. | ||
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Why would you lynch me over Sloosh? Why are you making excuses for jay? Ugh. | ||
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On February 20 2013 04:45 VisceraEyes wrote: My filter is awash with posts trying to get Snarfs lynched. Prplhz more close fit the lurker demographic I was aiming into D1. It's all in my filter Yamato. Those posts were day 3! Wtf is wrong with you? stop trying to gloss over the fact that you lied about your agenda for day 3. THAT is what's in your filter. You may have talked about Snarfs as a scum read, but to say you were a proponent in his lynch is completely off the mark. | ||
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yamato77
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I actually want to die today, because I think it will help VE die tomorrow. I'm in the process of making a detailed case proving his mafia agenda play today. | ||
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yamato77
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On February 20 2013 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: That should read "from D1" but it doesn't even matter. I admit that I was just as, if not more interested in a prplhz lynch. But you can't just dismiss the fact that I was among the only voices suspicious of Snarfs right up to the point where he was made a serious candidate - whether it was me who made him a valid candidate is obviously up for debate, but you can't say I did nothing to get him lynched Yamato. Now you are the one who is lying. ##Vote: yamato77 On February 20 2013 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: But you can't just dismiss the fact that I was among the only voices suspicious of Snarfs right up to the point where he was made a serious candidate - whether it was me who made him a valid candidate is obviously up for debate, but you can't say I did nothing to get him lynched Yamato. Now you are the one who is lying. On February 20 2013 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: whether it was me who made him a valid candidate is obviously up for debate On February 20 2013 06:38 VisceraEyes wrote: up for debate CHALLENGE ACCEPTED On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit. I'll give you this one VE, you made a case on him early day 1. But did you really try to get him lynched? No. Sandwiching this post are these two: On February 07 2013 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Why aren't you doing shit? You can't be scared of NKs, it's like you don't give a fuck. And in my experience a Palmar that doesn't give a fuck is a scum Palmar...and I hate scum. I FUCKING HATE SCUM PALMAR On February 07 2013 13:53 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm back and reading. Are we lynching Palmar yet? Again, what are you doing today? Trying to get Palmar lynched. Not Snarfs, Palmar. The guy who flipped town. The guy you've inevitably played quite a few games with. The guy you know to fuck off entire games at times, even when town. BUT OKAY, okay, I get it. I read him as scum too. It's okay. I'm not just lynching you for this. On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I've read the whole thread again. First of all, where the fuck is prplhz and why isn't anyone else curious? He has literally 4 in game posts and while he appears to be interested in "thread atmosphere", I just have no idea who he thinks is scum. Djo bringing back up the whole Oats/Mocsta thing is just...confusing. What's the point? I'm not even sure what he's accusing Mocsta of in the first place. @Djo What exactly is your problem with Mocsta? It's like you're suspicious of him because he didn't join your random lynch (which you say that you didn't even really like). As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is: Palmar prplhz Snarfs JX There's no way in hell they're all scum. Here's what I want to do. I think everyone should choose one name off that list that they believe is the most realistic lynch candidate based on what they perceive to be town sentiment. Then I want them to explain why they aren't voting for that person, and explain in detail why their lynch candidate is better. Know this. GM made it clear in the OP that lurkers will ruin this game. You don't even have to take my word for it, it's right in the OP. The worst thing townies can do in this setup is lurk. Therefor, I don't want to lynch someone active today. We can start lynching into active posters with more flip information. I think prplhz is the most realistic lynch candidate, and I'll tell you why (though you probably won't like it.) Palmar apparently wants to lynch prplhz. Is that fucked up or what? But it's true. If Palmar comes back in here and says "Yeah I still want to lynch prplhz" then I believe that prplhz will get lynched. In spite of fucking off for the entire game, Palmar has more say over who gets lynched than I do. But I'm not bitter - all is not lost you see. For I can also get down on a prplhz lynch. I'd still do somersaults over a Palmar lynch or Snarfs lynch, but honestly I just don't think I can make it happen today. ____________________________________________________________________ On the active posters: I'd like to see more from slOosh. Him backing out of his yamato read, while admirable I guess, leaves me wondering just who he thinks is scum. He mentioned phagga as a means of determining prplhz' alignment...somehow? But made it clear that he wasn't really a scumread. Ultimately he wants it to be clear that he's not doing nothing, which generally sets off red flags for me. He started out as a super townread too, which is why this is concerning for me. @slOosh You say "let's work with what we've got". I've got a case on Snarfs that you haven't commented on. I've got a lurker policy that I'd like you to consider. I'd really like to hear who you think is scum. yamato is on my to-do list tomorrow morning. So is Cheesecake. I'm going to bed now. ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: prplhz Another post fingering Snarfs as mafia. BUT WAIT, LOOK AT THAT LIST AND VOTE AGAIN: On February 07 2013 17:58 VisceraEyes wrote: As I said earlier, I'm very very interested in clearing out the trash, being players who signed up and aren't playing. Right now that list is: Palmar prplhz Snarfs JX ##Unvote: Palmar ##Vote: prplhz Holy shit, that's a ridiculously terrible looking list. Also, notice it contains all of the people that were real contenders for the lynch day 1, grouped wholly as "lurkers". Wow. Lurker lynching. VE isn't even trying. Also note that his "case" is on Snarfs, but his vote goes elsewhere. All the time. I'll continue to show instances of this throughout his play, day 1 and day 3, but first I'm going to figure out where his vote went day 1 and why, because as I said in LVIII, the only alignment indicative thing these good mafia players do is lynch people. And make no mistake, VE lynches town REAL GOOD. On February 08 2013 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Still no quotes from this game explaining your viewpoint. Just vague meta references and now you're throwing in non-alignment indicative bullshit. ##Unvote: prplhz ##Vote: Snarfs WOOOWOOOOOOOOO This is the lynch guys, all aboard. Here's an instance to refute my idea of VE's relationship with Snarfs. It's not a very good one, however, simply because of how weakly this plays out. Not even half an hour later: On February 08 2013 03:33 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm willing to consolidate onto JX. Wow. NEXT: On February 08 2013 05:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I AM WILLING TO BET MY LIFE THAT PALMAR IS MAFIA. I'll admit, this is put in here just to make him look bad. Carry on. On February 08 2013 05:36 VisceraEyes wrote: The JX wagon popped up quick. FAST quick. I mean, this is like the end of the phase really with people going to bed. HERE WE GO. An absurd defense of JX, out of nowhere. Is this lynch derailing at its finest? Is VE really going to help town get off another town player and lynch the mafia he proclaims from the rooftops? On February 08 2013 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Unvote: Snarfs ##Vote: JieXian It's still true - it was just an observation. I wouldn't say he's been discussed "all day"...he doesn't even have enough content to warrant all-day discussion. And his resurgence into the thread when the threat of lynch is real certainly doesn't speak well for him either. Nope. He won't even take responsibility for pushing any agenda. He'll just blend the fuck in, right with this vote. Don't do anything to take any real stance, or even justify your vote more than calling him a "lurker". Good stuff. On February 08 2013 07:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Look it's fine - I'm voting for JX see? I'm not anxious to get rid of Palmar. I just think he has the highest chance of flipping scum. This, in retrospect, is a slip of the mindset I just talked about. VE has zero balls this game. He has no conviction in his reads, he's just going along with what town wants to do. It's pathetically scummy. Town VE does not mindlessly sheep. If town VE thought Palmar was scum, he would do something, but yet VE did basically to push his reads, at all. That's basically the summary of VE's play day 1. Call people mafia, don't push them, and sheep town's thinking. I'm ignoring day 2 because all of the stuff he wrote about was about town players, in all likelihood. So on to day 3: QUOTE]On February 12 2013 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't know what you want from me. I have been looking for scum. I am reading both Snarfs and prplhz as scum. I have tried to show you why I think so. I fully admit to dropping the ball yesterday but real life kicked my ass. slOosh you haven't engaged me about my reads either Bro and now you seem so sure of yourself that you aren't even willing to listen. Do you understand how that attitude is COUNTERPRODUCTIVE to getting me to prove my innocence? Why should I even care to try? ##Vote Snarfs Because prplhz just wrote a case and I will read it before I moving forward. [/QUOTE] The only thing interesting is the vote, which isn't even the focus of this post. It's his defense of himself, which is overwhelmingly sad. "I've been looking for scum". Oh, you mean lurker lynching? Gotcha. On February 12 2013 08:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, I'm starting to get a sense of what's going on here. slOosh is Mafia He keeps insisting that I'm not doing shit. He keeps insisting that I am not scumhunting. He conveniently leaves out the fact that I have not one, but TWO scum suspects whom I have made cases on and pushed for lynch at various points in the game...suspects that I continue to believe in today. Because I believed that the nominations would be all town, I wrote slOosh off as town as soon as the nominations were posted...in spite of red flags being raised when he was certain he would be put up for nomination. Now he's got this fail crusade against me. But he's accusing me of shit that he's just as, if not more, guilty of. He disappeared during D1 when the important shit was going down. And now he's in a unique position of being "soft-confirmed" town. What's he do with it? Continue to ignore everything his "scum suspect" says. If he really thinks I'm scum, why isn't he trying to catch me by making me explain my reads more thoroughly? Because in the name of consistency, he has to pretend they don't exist.. Otherwise he has no fucking case on me. I've been racking my brain trying to figure out a townie motivation for pretending my scumreads don't exist, and aside from "maybe he really thinks I'm town and is trying to infuriate me to confirm his read on me" I can't think of a single one...and that one doesn't make any fucking sense because if he's town and he's wasting all that time on trying to cement a TOWN read on me, he's doing something horribly horribly wrong...therefor, I conclude that he has to be scum. prplhz is Mafia Palmar knew it, I ignored it, now I gotta do something about it. prplhz did nothing over the course of D1 aside from ask Djodref about RNG, tell Mocsta and Oats to stop yelling at each other, and ask people over and over what they think about his "case" on jaybrundage. I put case in quotations there because his case is basically "he feels a little elusive and mild and *shrug*" but apparently that's enough for prplhz. What I find interesting about that is he claims he had no strong scum suspects D1...but apparently I haven't been doing shit all game right? Why wasn't I a suspect to prplhz? Oh that's right, at the end of D1 when the shit was uncertain surrounding the lynch, that is when all of a sudden prplhz would lynch VE over JX. Which begs the question: why didn't he raise me as a lynch candidate before then? If he was opposed to the JX lynch, why didn't he offer me up sooner than a couple hours before the lynch? prplhz is my strongest read by far and I prefer a prplhz lynch today. Snarfs is Mafia Snarfs has rubbed me the wrong way all game. His initial case on me was so bad that it got my attention, and the way he pushed it (or NOT pushed it more accurately) felt scummy all game long. He continues to do nothing, which kinda makes me a little queasy, but overall he's firmly in the red for me. If I can't get a prplhz lynch today, I would lynch Snarfs. ##Unvote ##Vote: prplhz Here is another example of VE fingering Snarfs as mafia, talking about lynching him, and then pushing a DIFFERENT AGENDA. He's not attempting to get Snarfs lynched, he's just putting feelers out there. Look at the last sentence again: If I can't get a prplhz lynch today, I would lynch Snarfs. This is day 3, and his agenda is a mafia one. He'll ACQUIESCE to lynching mafia, but he really wants to lynch town. On February 12 2013 18:21 VisceraEyes wrote: And actually before I go ##Unvote ##Vote Snarfs Oats I think Snarfs more likely today...but if that changes I SWEAR I'll be back. My vote is on prolhz in spirit. Again, this is VE's mindset showing through and through. He's not trying to get Snarfs lynched for real, but hey, if it happens it's all kinds of cool town cred for him since he's offhandedly called him scum the whole game, and vice-versa. But again, who does he really want to lynch? It's right there, at the end: PRPLHZ, A TOWNIE. NOT SNARFS, THE MAFIA. But okay, I get it. Townies are wrong all the time. What is so bad about VE being wrong THE WHOLE FUCKING GAME, EVEN THOUGH HE SHOULD KNOW BETTER? Well, he's taken zero responsibility for anything he's done this game + Show Spoiler [Another Example] + On February 13 2013 08:52 VisceraEyes wrote: At the time of the post in question (my switch from Palmar to prplhz) I wasn't convinced of Palmar being ACTUAL scum. That didn't come until he came back into the thread and confirmed, some more, that he wouldn't be doing shit. At the time of the post in question, it was simply a choice between two lurkers. And as I explained in my post, if Palmar had delurked and said "yeah guys go prplhz" I think that prplhz might have gotten lynched. That observation transcended alignment - I believe that would have happened if Palmar were scum OR town. It was an observation of the typical gamestate here on TL: blind faith in the Leader. Because of that, it didn't matter to me whether Palmar delurked as scum and did that because based on the actions prplhz had taken up to that point (read: soft push on jay and vague "pro-town tidbits") I decided that I was okay with a prplhz lynch. Palmar had shown no interest in Snarfs or I would have voted Snarfs instead - Palmar had only up to that point expressed a desire to kill prplhz. On February 13 2013 11:12 VisceraEyes wrote: FUCK YES Debears better fucking bring the thunder...I thought Djodref was town before, but the silence surrounding the lynch indicates to me that a) scum had no problem lynching Snarfs or b) scum couldn't do anything to prevent it. I'm looking hard at debears as of this moment. This I think is obviously true, and something that is the crux of why mafia VE and mafia Snarfs were double-bussing the whole game. To explain why, we're going to travel back in time through VE's filter and look at a particular post he made, speculating the setup. On February 09 2013 03:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Like I said, if even one scum dies, the game is increased by a day forcing another nomination. The nomination phases are going to be good for us because they'll leave us a pattern to follow. Not that we should automatically assume that only townies will be nominated, this is not what I'm saying. But I'd be surprised if more than, say, one scum is ever nominated at a time. As a result we can start narrowing down who is scum BASED on the nomination phases. Scum will likely want as few nomination phases as possible. I'm not trying to push this as what will happen. I'm providing my own opinion of how this mechanic is going to play out. I'll be in and out over the course of the day. In a non-perverted sort of way. Here he explains the most likely nomination mechanic, and one we can now nearly modconfirm to be true. Scum are putting up townies and killing them off, using the Nomination mechanic as a replacement NK of sorts and a day in which nothing for town is accomplished at all. It's good mafia play, because it denies town a ton of information, and wastes valuable time while resulting in a dead townie 100% percent of the time. But it only works so long. How long? Until three mafia die. If that happens, Mafia lose complete control over the nominations at some point, if they're going to be able to win. Nominations are three people, and with two or more alive, they can get to mylo/lylo A WHOLE DAY FASTER by playing this way. So if you lose one member, it really doesn't do much but prolong the game, which is admittedly bad for mafia but not THE END. Two members, you start to get shaky. Three members and you have to play GODLIKE. The point of that is this: mafia bussing in this game means less than it does in a regular game. It might actually be advantageous, because the town cred you gain for being in on a mafia lynch from early on is pretty huge, especially given that there are no NK's. But it certainly isn't too damaging, as long as at least two of your members stay alive. As long as this happens, mafia have a gigantic advantage over town in the continual denial of information through the mafia-controlled lynches. To me, this basically kills any sort of town read I had on VE because of what happened day 3. Looking at his filter from an objective point of view, it's very obvious what he's been doing this game, and why. It's spelled out in bits and pieces, you just have to look for them. I don't care if I die today or if Sloosh dies. If you kill me, you can see what I've written as modconfirmed town and lynch VE based off it and get us one step closer to winning the game. If we kill Sloosh and keep me alive, I'll make sure to get VE lynched tomorrow and we'll have the information advantage of knowing exactly what mafia planned with the nominations from the very start and can make more intelligent reads based on this, and perhaps even force them out of the pattern. | ||
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yamato77
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I WANT YOU TO READ MY CASE NAO | ||
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Or really, how he doesn't. The fact that he chose prplhz over Snarfs is really just icing on the cake. | ||
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On February 20 2013 16:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Wait, so if someone pushes town over scum, it means he is scum? Walk it through for me. It's only partly about WHO he chooses, though that is part of it. When you look at the big picture, VE doesn't seem to be picking anyone for any particular reason. He's not pushing his reads, and his one claim to a town alignment is that he "pushed snarfs" when I've shown that he never actually did that. | ||
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On February 20 2013 16:34 Oatsmaster wrote: That seems to be bad play. Now answer my fucking question. What question, my top 2 reads? Why does it even matter that I give them to you on demand when I've handed them out like candy the whole fucking game, explanation and all? No, I want to talk about VE. Why are you suddenly against his scumminess today when not too long ago you were arguing with me about my town read on him? | ||
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On February 20 2013 16:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Well VE pushed a lurker lynch hard at the beginning, saying that it would hurt the game. He has been pretty consistent with that. Think about what you're saying. "He's pushing policy lynching, and that's a stance." No, it isn't. | ||
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Plus, you're mafia. Hah. | ||
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VE is mafia, guys, lynch him tomorrow. I'm going to work today, so if I die tonight I don't care THAT much. Just kill VE tomorrow and we'll be on the track to winning the game. | ||
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yamato77
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##Vote Yamato77 You kill me, and Sloosh leads the lynch on VE tomorrow. That's the plan, don't fuck it up. | ||
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On February 21 2013 02:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh GOD I hope I'm wrong about you and you're scum Yamato...because you're playing for scum right now like I have apparently all game. If you're not mafia, this is the worst town VE performance I've ever seen. | ||
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yamato77
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And I GUARANTEE we win if you get lynched tomorrow. Your buddies will be easy pickings after that. | ||
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##Vote Visceraeyes | ||
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It makes too much sense. All of you (Djo in debears' case) acted the same way on day 1, and that was to push no particular agenda, and generally try to blend in. Jay and Oats are very likely town, and I highly doubt CC is mafia at the current moment. | ||
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On February 21 2013 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Psh...whatever. You can die too. ##Unvote ##Vote: slOosh For what it's worth, I wanted it to be you who won this with me. Yamato killed me last time we were town together, so I wanted you to be the hero with me. I was mafia that game, by the way. VE now you just bein' dumb. | ||
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On February 21 2013 14:43 Oatsmaster wrote: I think that thinking about scum teams at this point is premature. We need to find 1 scum within the next 48 hours. That is all. Well if you say that, then I've found my scum, and I'm 10000000000% certain I'm not moving my vote. Why waste the rest of the day? We still have to figure out his buddies at some point. | ||
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I will do such things soon, though. Perhaps tomorrow before work, or even tonight if I get drunk enough, it shall appear. | ||
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On February 21 2013 15:01 debears wrote: Oh, look, Oats and Jay instantly vote VE. They sure want this vote over fast ##Vote Jay That's a bad attempt at making the VE lynch look bad. Why do you think VE is town, debears? Let's talk it out. | ||
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I want a full response from you on my case of VE before I even consider the POSSIBILITY of lynching jay, and that's only if you can completely prove me wrong. | ||
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On February 21 2013 15:11 debears wrote: I have not seen a well thought out, organized case on why VE is scum. And, why VE is scummier than Jay. Jay is scum. Vote for scum Bullshit. Total bullshit. My case is both good and it flows well. | ||
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I think I'm right on this one bud. Considering your whole town read on VE is association bullshit, I'd think you were better than that. | ||
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On February 21 2013 15:19 debears wrote: The strongest part of my read on him is the snarfs pushing him HARD since early day 1. That means they would have to plan pushing each other FROM THE VERY BEGINNING Is that really that difficult to fathom? Also, I want to see how Snarfs "pushed VE hard" when it was obvious he was completely un-involved in the affairs of town. His read on VE was distancing, not an honest attempt to get him lynched. It's pretty obvious. | ||
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VE never made any serious attempt to lead town toward lynching Snarfs all game. Your point is now moot. | ||
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It's how VE has done FUCK ALL this game with his million spammy posts and setup speculating. Tell me, can you remember a time when VE took a hard stance on a lynch day? I can't, BECAUSE I LOOKED. This is really just a very sad attempt at WIFOMing ONE TOWN PLAYER into fucking town over. That's all you guys need, and you all have to be consolidated. But if jay/Oats/me are mafia, why is it that I was nominated yesterday, and indeed wanted to die so that town could lynch VE tomorrow with the knowledge that I was speaking 100% truth? No, the mafia are phagga/debears/VE, who all want to lynch jay, and have a vested interest in doing so. CC is the person on the fence in this situation, and his vote is the deciding vote. So CC, who do you think is most likely to be town in this situation? Me, or debears/phagga/ve? | ||
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On February 21 2013 15:59 debears wrote: You need to sit down and READ yamato When you make all your posts trying to frame someone, that is a serious attempt to try to get them lynched by that person, despite to the standards that you would hold up to yourself. In other words, just because for you it wouldn't be a serious attempt to get VE lynched, it was a serious attempt by snarfs by looking at his low post, lurky playstyle Just because he posted shit about VE does NOT mean he was actively trying to get him lynched. I showed exactly this phenomena in my case on VE, and it makes your ENTIRE ARGUMENT WORTHLESS. Come up with a better VE=town reason than snarfs association shit. It's not good at all. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: le wifom up in here. could be double bus could not be double bus. what do. read my case on VE, walk away with complete knowledge of his play this game and how even with the snarfs association, he's still completely mafia. Then lynch him, and scum concede. | ||
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If VE is town, why would either of me or you (and Mocsta) be put up as nominations before him? Palmar and Sloosh, two veteran players, were nominated day 2, yet the third is NOT VE, but one of the newest players, Mocsta. D4, you were put up. D6, me. Is VE really less of a threat as town then either of us? No. He's fucking mafia, and mafia aren't nominating themselves at all. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:07 debears wrote: Read my case on jay, lynch jay, lynch oats, scum concede Who is third mafia? ... Lol. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:08 debears wrote: Palmar is a better town player than VE. Sloosh was considered town (I believe). Mocsta was considered town. VE was not (if i remember correctly) Palmar was in more danger of getting lynched on a regular day than VE was, yet it was Palmar who went up, not VE. Plus, CC and I are still worse choices than VE if mafia is killing dangerous townies. Both of us did way more to get the only mafia lynched so far than VE did. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:09 debears wrote: Could be you by the way you are going  Phagga's lack of posting is inclining me towards him. So why is Jay town yamato? Put your money where your mouth is and make a case on me, bitch. Jay is town because that guy IS Best Mislynch WORLD. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:10 yamato77 wrote: Palmar was in more danger of getting lynched on a regular day than VE was, yet it was Palmar who went up, not VE. Plus, CC and I are still worse choices than VE if mafia is killing dangerous townies. Both of us did way more to get the only mafia lynched so far than VE did. Lol, refuted my own point. Whatever, VE should have been nominated if he was town, plain and simple. There's no good reason town VE has yet to be nominated. But he's not town, hasn't acted townie, and should die for it. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:11 debears wrote: That is the worst reasoning in the world. Show me through analysis of his play Jay's town meta is to look scummy, all the damn time. Analyzing his play from some objective sense of how town and mafia play does no good, because he doesn't play that way. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:14 phagga wrote: I said yesterday that either sloosh or VE is scum. Sloosh flipped green, here we go. ## Vote VE Would also lynch jay. Could you scream mafia any louder, phagga? | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Nomination wifom best wifom. I see your point, though. As I said, I want to be 100% sure of this lynch. There are other possibilities to consider. screaming VE scum over and over at lylo doesnt achieve much. It just makes you bad, even if you are right. Yamato, characteristically you are a very confirmation biased and clouded townie. Im nkt saying you arent right in this case, but there are better ways to go about things. I'll do a full write up tomorrow on who we should lymch. If it's VE, cool. wagon of justice. Look, dude, I made my case. It's fucking lylo, and the scum team is in front of you. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:17 debears wrote: Scum motivation behind the posts and scummy posts are two different things I highly doubt jay is actually mafia. When he was mafia, he didn't even bother to have reads or cases, he just did shit randomly and trolled. It's blatantly obvious that he cares about figuring out this game, and has been involved with town about his reads. His drop of me during day 3 was the towniest thing I've ever seen jay do. Believe me when I say, I've been mafia in this exact same situation. In British Empire, I tried to get jay/zentor lynched SO HARD, but town Hapa knew better. Town Hapa identified jay's level of contribution to the game as a solid heuristic towards his towniness, correctly so. You have to prove jay is scum by meta, and right now he's not matching it at all. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:21 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato you're either scum or an idiot if you dont want to take things slowly today. unfortunately you're probably the latter. stop letting your preconceptions about how I play this game cloud your ability to judge my case on VE He's goddamn mafia. I'm CONVINCED. There's no other explanation for this game, and how it's playing out right now than Phagga/VE/Debears. Don't let debears fool you. He's good at mafia, I'll admit, because he's good at arguing. Better than me. But seriously, take what you know of jay, and take what you know of VE, and think about how they've played this game. Jay's pushed his reads harder than VE. VE as town is anything but limp-wristed. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:27 debears wrote: Link me the Hapa post if possible and I'll take a look at it On January 05 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote: @ Xalatos Welcome! Thoughts on DP appreciated! Regarding your own points: MrZ - He tends to do very "trolly" stuff as town and scum. His early-game in Witchcraft Mini is a good example, where he self-votes himself and just posts a couple of meaningless one-liners for most of Day 1 (as town). I'm not too worried about MrZ, as I think reading him is fairly easy. He's very clammy and afraid to post as scum. He's much more open and jokey as town. JayBrundage - He's lynch-bait (see Hero Mini Mafia). We should definitely encourage him to post more, but he's a pretty easy mislynch (if he's town) because he tends to make sparse and wishy-washy posts. Mr.CC - I think he's fairly similar to MrZ. I'm not very worried about reading him, because I feel he has a hard time replicating his "jokey" town-meta. His inactivity so far is a concern, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to RL business. Not that it'll change your mind. | ||
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As mafia, jay was tunnely, he picked super day 1 early on and slung shit at him for a while with personal attacks and such, and reacted harshly to accusations against his own person. Jay this game is not doing any of that. His dearth of reads is actually something I shared for a time, because it has been legitimately difficult figuring out who is mafia, but I think I've finally pieced it together and it makes tons of sense. | ||
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I managed to correctly identify prplhz as town early on in the game by similar heuristics, because the two of them are near-identical players in that they are always lynch candidates as town. I shouldn't have ignored my own analysis on that front. Sorry prplhz. | ||
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Having been in or actively obs'd both those games, I can say with relative certainty that jay is town. If you don't want to read the games and see for yourself, then just trust me on this one, because I know. All of you may think I'm not a good player but you'll be very glad to know you'll win if you stop thinking I'm so terrible at this game. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:53 Oatsmaster wrote: You dont get to claim that your method of reading people is good because YOU mislynched Prp. The mislynch was days later, and it was an oversight mainly. But it's besides the point, because the point is that both of them are very similar, and that you have to use similar logic to arrive at the conclusion that they are town. If you're not going to do any meaningful reading or analysis of your own on this matter, Oats, then just sheep me. You'll be glad you did in approximately 42 hours. | ||
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On February 21 2013 16:59 jaybrundage wrote: Wait a second If anything Oats should sheep me. I was on the Wagon of Justice long before you were. I where on a lesser Wagon of Justice (of snarfs). You have to sheep your town reads, silly, or you're doing it wrong. Another reason it makes zero sense for phagga to want to kill jay, but hey, I think we all know he's mafia, too. | ||
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On February 21 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Yamato says: I am too lazy to do it properly and instead, will use long words in an attempt to confuse you. Lol. Jay, your filter is pretty scummy, but the stuff debears says is scummy actually isnt scummy. At this point, I just wanna lynch VE. Okay, then go take an extended break from this game, and when you come back mafia will have conceded. | ||
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I'm not going to say who, or why today. Tomorrow I might. Today, we lynch VE. | ||
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Snarfs, similarly, didn't exactly make a concerted effort to get VE lynched, ever. When he was getting lynched day 3, did he even come into the thread and argue for VE's lynch? Why not? Wouldn't mafia benefit from lynching town VE in that situation? It could have happened, but it didn't. It's not enough to say that the double bus is good evidence, because it's not. It was weak on the part of VE, and Snarfs didn't even try to get VE lynched over himself. I've been over this. There's no reason not to lynch him. | ||
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On February 22 2013 03:53 debears wrote: You make it sound as though you should only push 1 person all of day 1. And that is completely wrong. If you have a scumread, and no one will lynch them, then you keep looking for scum and save the case for another day. Snarfs lynch had no momentum at all day 1. When someone has a third of their filter about someone being scum, then that is a concentrated effort READ THIS http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395690&user=121695 My case shows explicitly what VE's mindset was around the lynch, and that's not refutable. He was not pushing his own agenda with his vote, he was sheeping town. Don't make it into something it's not. Snarfs cannot have ever been a threat to VE because he held zero influence on the thread from day 1. He never pushed ANY agenda actively, because he lurked too much and didn't interact with town. Maybe that's hard for you to see since you replaced in, but I know. So stop arguing with me about this and fucking sheep me. I'm right. | ||
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On February 22 2013 03:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Your confirmation bias is causing you to try and refute facts with opinions yamato. Are you aware of this? I took the very strong stance that I thought Snarfs was scum. This is evident in my filter. I also took the strong stance that I thought Palmar was scum. This is also in my filter. I also took the strong stance that Mocsta was scum. This is in my filter. The fact that you don't think I was "pushing my reads" is horseshit because I very clearly explained why I thought all of Snarfs, Palmar and Mocsta were scum. While it's true that I wasn't in here bashing you guys over the head trying to get you to vote with me, that doesn't change the fact that these are all stances I took that you're claiming I didn't take. Then why did you vote JX over the both of them day 1? Why didn't you do more to get one of Snarfs/Palmar lynched? It's just bullshit. I don't have confirmation bias, you're just mafia. I laid it out plain and simple. Plus you lied about it. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:01 VisceraEyes wrote: Because Palmar showed up and tried to DERAIL THE JX LYNCH! I thought that meant that JX was his scumbuddy and I was willing to consolidate on JX based on his inactivity ANYWAY. Yes, you do have confirmation bias. All of the points you're saying are "irrefutable" have been refuted - you're just flailing around now going "Just sheep me town I'm right" without even CONSIDERING that you might be wrong. WHICH YOU FUCKING ARE. That's a pathetic excuse. You are not that fucking bad at this game as town, VE. I'm not wrong. Nothing I'm doing right now is flailing around because no one has taken me head on with the points I raise in my full case. You're arguing part of it, an important part, but it's obvious from this response that you're just full of shit. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I fucking tried to get Snarfs lynched. I made a case that ALL OF YOU SLOOSH AND PALMAR IGNORED. You fucking IGNORED MY CASE ON SCUM Yamato. Yet I'M the one who HAS TO BE scum right? Seriously, I'm done trying to convince you. I'll just convince someone else to vote with me and you'll either have to consolidate or fucking LOSE Yamato. Tired of this. Yes, get angry. If you die you'll probably lose, and if you don't you probably win, so here we are. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:08 debears wrote: Yamato you didn't read my case at all. Why are you refusing to read and refute my jay case with specific evidence? Why are you refusing to look at the context of day 1? Because you can't even argue that VE is town well enough to convince me. Stop trying to derail. VE is the mafia here, and after he's dead, you're a sitting duck so you have to be invested in his defense. Nothing more, nothing less. Paint me as confirmation biased, whatever, but you're not going to get me to move my vote and I have phagga, jay, and Oats with me. That's enough to win. | ||
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Just concede. I know the scum team and you can't kill me. After today, town will all sheep me to victory anyway. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:13 debears wrote: Yeah because people who don't show up at lylo and try to figure out the game are so obviously town. Why are you and me the only ones talking here? Why did those 3 immediately settle on ve without cases and then not contributr st all? Wake up If one of them is mafia, as you say, then they're bussing their teammate at lylo. Somehow I find that unlikely. | ||
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On February 22 2013 04:27 debears wrote: I love it when peoplr don't make cases, don't refute cases, and then just automatically assume they are right. Yamato you can't deny what's right there in my cases, that's why you wont refute them This loss is on you and cc I did make a gigantic fucking case about VE. I will not listen to anything else today. You cannot discredit me or WIFOM anything about what VE's done because I'm right, and the townies following me know I'm right. I know the mafia team, and you guys are showing your true colors today, just as I expected. But more in that later, if you don't just concede. | ||
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Good stuff. Also, I predicted you calling me scum, haha. Have to discredit me somehow. | ||
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But you're the one who dies today. | ||
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On February 22 2013 08:03 jaybrundage wrote: hm Yamato. So who do you take out of the VE, Phagga, Debears scum team. Phagga im presuming? or Debears. Why the change of Stance on CC? What brought this around We'll talk about it tomorrow. Today we lynch VE | ||
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Hint: It's not jay or Phagga. | ||
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Phagga is not mafia. His analysis posts today show how much he wants to win, to figure out the game. Where is VE's scum hunting today? Nonexistant. He's mafia, you're mafia, and debears is mafia. GG | ||
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On February 23 2013 01:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: His posts are just big walls of quotes and texts saying that he agrees with people. At least I know I'm not scum, so I reserve the right to laugh at you post-game. If you're not mafia then you've done a real good job not lynching mafia VE this game, but that's a discussion for tomorrow. | ||
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He gets it. Thank God. | ||
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Tomorrow I want to look hard at CC, as I said earlier. The last mafia, as Phagga said, is one of Debears/Oats, but I'm not sure which. My gut says debears, and that's exactly what I've been operating under today. I won't be around for the deadline but afterward and most of the next few days I will be here making cases and such. See you guys on the flip side. | ||
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I asked Prom for feedback after I posted it. No one helped me catch mafia. I got advice on how not to be a terrible tunneling, scummy looking townie for once. | ||
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On February 23 2013 11:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I still think that Snarfs bus was the best move ever. What else was I supposed to do That was a beautiful move, and it had everyone in the thread fooled. The one mistake I caught you on during day 2 was your wishy-washy read flip-flop on me. Everything else until the last day was really solid stuff from you. | ||
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On February 23 2013 11:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato good job pushing it through man. You'd have SHIT if we got Oats to vote with us FTW though XD I was afraid Oats might do something silly. On that note, Oats, I want to say that I tried really hard to be nice to you this game but sometimes you frustrate me. The fact that the towniest part of your play was the first half of day 1 is a little saddening. If it weren't for that, I don't think I could have accurately identified you at all. You're very unreadable later in the game. | ||
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So if I take the idea seriously that mafia bussed the fuck out of Snarfs, even early on, then I have to reconsider another player in this game besides just VE: Cheesecake Why? Because his claim to town is the same as VE's, but when you look at what happened day 3 with a fresh pair of eyes, you see just what Cheesecake was doing, and why he was doing it. Fuck all the nomination WIFOM. Fuck all the association bullshit. What is CC doing, and why is he doing it? First, I want to look at day 1, and go through a similar process as I did with VE. Who did CC want to lynch, and why? On February 08 2013 04:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Fuck it, YOLO ##vote: jiexian I dont see it going any other way. Everyone is yelling die scum die. Before this post, he had made a case on JX, but no vote went with it. He was talking about his read on Snarfs/Djo, with more emphasis on Djo. But aside from what he was writing, what was he doing? Not much. This post, however, is indicative of a mindset, and it is the exact same mindset I nailed VE with, and that is one of following town. CC, similarly to VE, didn't take any real stances with his vote or activity day 1. His vote he puts on JX amid town's push toward lynch him, and there it stayed. Why would he do this, if he's town? He talked about other reads, why isn't he making more of an effort to get them lynched? It's a mafia mentality. And I find it pervasive throughout his filter. On February 08 2013 04:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Indeed it is. We're lynching JX today with anyway with or without my vote . Who the heck are you gonna vote prphlz? Here he admits to looking scummy after prplhz attacks him for that vote post. Since when does town CC do this at all? No, as he said before, town CC is much more likely to start arguing with someone when accused, even if he's wrong. But mafia CC? He's just trying to blend into the townies who want to lynch JX, so he won't create any waves. He does this again, day 3 when someone calls him mafia for a good reason: On February 13 2013 01:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ^ Nah Oats, I'm the scummy dude here trying to derail this VE lynch and switching my meta based read on Yamato like a boss. Choo choo! That's about all he did of note Day 1. Most of it was general talk about his reads, etc, but note where his vote was and where it stayed, and how little time he spent justifying that read, as opposed to how much time he spent talking about other reads. On February 12 2013 01:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato Because Jay said that Palmar said so I haven't really given a serious look at Yamato until today. I initially wrote him off, because he was the towniest Yamato I've ever seen. In our history, he was always flaming with bias and emotionally posting. He drove the JX lynch home, but it was more lazy posting instead of emotional. This game he is more level-headed, and I just kinda threw a 'leaning town' stamp on him and let it be. Palmar apparently was going for something with Yamato, and Jay just reiterated it. I still think it is bad how Jay went after Yamato like that, but I have to consider that maybe he / Palmar are right. I'm filter diving and coming to my own conclusions on Yamato. On Jay's points: Yamato's flip-flop on Mocsta From Jay's case, I found it hard to get the grip on this point (he was basically summarizing). The first two pages on his filter are anti-Mocsta and then suddenly out of nowhere is: His Mocsta alignment case wasn't getting any traction, so he switches base. This IS a bit odd. Especially for Yamato. The Yamato I know was always ridden with tunneling and never let up. Conceding his position is, from what I'd consider, unlikely for town Yamato. Also, this is bad reasoning for a town Mocsta from him: Both alignments respond to cases. A matter of effort is not alignment indicative. JX Vote Where was JX before in Yamato's thinking? I completely missed this tbh. Not much to say about it other than lolwut. List post: Lists are scummy brah. I have no idea why he thinks I'm town: We've barely even talked. I think our interactions are null at this stage? I don't recall him taking a look at me. Why is he writing me off as town? I'm less concerned about his scumreads, because those conclusions can come from either alignment. I just don't know why certain people have earned the Yamato green stamp of approval. Prphlz town read: Mainly a meta case and two quotes saying that he's pro town. Why doesn't Yamato think he can be mafia faking this sentiment? Eeerrrr it's such an easy thing to just slap this town label on someone and never rethink it. The only time I played scum was with Debears, and he did this stuff to me all the time. Beefed up my townie image by defending me and saying I was pro-town because 'insert midly townish post here'. It may be the same case here. Yamato Today Even if Snarfs fits that bill, this is a shitty reason to be voting people alone. I don't agree that we should be looking mainly at activity from the nomination lynch. It's like a cop-out on forming decent reads... Also, he just calls me blendy and null reads me when I ask him to look into me. Seriously, I give him a GOLDEN opportunity to get some information about me, which I will respond to. He just null reads like a boss. Why doesn't he want to snuggle up with me and get to know each other? Town Yamato loves to interact / cuddle with me. Scum Yamato is afraid because he knows I'll call him out on his BS. I'd consider lynching Yamato today. My gut tells me to go all wagon of justice lynch Snarfs mode. Unfortunately he's another fucking lurker right now. I need to hear more than 'Oh I'm going to be doing family things! Lynch VE bro's, here are some scummers that are a good choice. Luckily I have alllll day to question him. That is, if he'll respond. @Snarfs Hey Snarfs, Snarfypoo. Can I call you Snarfypoo? You know, you're playing this Mafia game right now and it would be really cool if you did things. Two things: Why shouldn't I lynch you right now? and Top scumreads, minus VE. I know your stance on him. Give reasoning. Be cool and awesome like that. This is fucking mafia posting here folks. Earlier in the game, and even early in day 3, CC had said that I looked town, "the towniest" Yamato ever, he said. So how did that suddenly become scummy? It's bullshit, that's how. Town built up a good wagon on me and CC decided he'd set himself up to vote me, despite the fact that he'd been arguing over the SAME READ that jay had just a few posts in his filter before this one. It's absurd how much this guy just wants to blend into town. On February 12 2013 02:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Nope, lazy. First quote: What's wrong with what VE did there? He expresses he wants to talk with nomination candidates about the lynch tomorrow (and today). Is that a mafia agenda? What is odd is that he disagrees with Phagga, but provides no reasoning. That actually brings up a good point. Why DOES he disagree... he has never explained it. I want to know this. Second quote: The joke was a joke... indicative by the heart at the end. Ehh. Seemed pretty light-hearted to me. But that Phagga stuff again. Prove he's not lynch-worthy VE. Third quote: You focus on VE being a good player, but he's not showing that here. I've never played with VE before, so I can't testify to his epicness. I've never even heard of him being that good. The only thing that redeems him is he did take a look at Prphlz who was not a lynch candidate. He did focus a lot on the nomination lynch... Final quote: His job as town is to prove the innocence of Phagga if he thinks he is innocent. He doesn't do this. Good point. VE seems really trolly / nonchalant overall. His filter lacks scumreads and is more joking around than anything. Pushing a mafia agenda? It's iffy. Mafia motivation comes in defending Phagga without reason. The little participation go either way. At least he did push Prphlz. Stuff not related to you SlOosh: VE said he was going to look into me but never did. Then, he just coped out and said 'oh no, im not interested in lynching you, you're good don't worry about it' <---- I fucking hate when people null me like that. He doesn't seem to really care about what other people think about him. Kinda a townie trait to me; at least that's how I'm as town. He's not overly concerned with defending himself which I this is townie as well. So VE: Why do you disagree with a Phagga lynch? More specifically why did you WAIT until today to talk about it. Palmar was right there to discuss. In fact, why did you want to lynch the guy who was so anti-Phagga? Wouldn't you want to discuss it with him? Overall: I'm a bit see-sawy on him. All flip-floppy and such. I like some things, but hate that he voted for SlOosh when he disagreed with his Phagga case without disputing it. We'll see with what he comes out with today. Here is another theme I want to point out in CC's filter. and the only hard stance he's taken this whole game: Snarfs vs. VE. If these are two mafia players, as I suspect, then CC has only ever cared to make sure one got lynched over the other. Why? I can't say for sure, but it's very odd, and there are many posts in his filter from day 3 talking about lynching Snarfs over lynching VE. He argues VE's towniness a few times, On February 13 2013 07:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Snarfs is by far the better lynch today -.- This VE thing reeks of scum and came about so quickly. "VE has done alot of scummy things" "He is being soft defended" Nice reasons. Now lynch snarfs plz. He is indisputably scum. More proof of the phenomena I want to point out. On February 13 2013 07:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Just lynch Snarfs. I'll give my left nut if he flips town. If he does, you guys can systematically lynch VE and myself the following non-nomination days and win the game. Seriously, holy shit. This is an interesting idea, no? It's a pretty safe bet that Snarfs will flip mafia if he's your scumbuddy, no? It also strengthens the association I want to build between CC and VE, which is more obvious to me now than then. On February 13 2013 07:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: SlOosh, thanks for being open. Look at the VE wagon - how many scummy people are on it? Why won't the entire scum team be on the Snarfs wagon to push this mislynch? It makes no sense. Scum are on this VE wagon, which was initially propelled by you, and are sheeping the crap out of it. On February 13 2013 07:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If you're town and on the VE wagon, I suggest switching over right the hell now. There is no way Snarfs flips town. If he does, well, I guess town has easy scum lynches ahead of them don't they? You lynch VE, he flips town, and town is left with deciding who is scum amongst everyone on the VE wagon. You lynch Snarfs, he flips town, town knows exactly who to lynch. If VE flips town we are absolutely fucked. Snarfs will flip red, and Gee-fucking-gee man. More examples and evidence of the mindsets he is guilty of that day. What I am coming to is this: When did CC start TRULY pushing for Snarf's lynch? After the wagon on me died and Sloosh made his move to kill VE. Why? Before that point, he was perfectly happy to listen to players he DIDN'T think were town call ME mafia, even though he thought I looked townie. But now he's so against lynching VE, who is being pushed by Sloosh? It doesn't make any sense. He never really offers up any strong analysis of why VE is town, he simply calls the wagon on him "scummy" and yells at us to lynch Snarfs. The Snarfs lynch was designed by mafia to give VE town cred and strengthen people's reads on CC. Before it became apparent that VE was going to die if mafia did nothing to stop it, CC was content with me being the vote leader, and he did nothing to push his case on Snarfs despite his vote sitting on him. On February 13 2013 07:11 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: been voting snarfs all day. /thread. Jay just bus your scumbuddy Snarfs already. He's obviously thought about what it means to have his vote on Snarfs in this manner, and left it there intentionally, even though the push to lynch him didn't come until late in the day. But the most damning thing to me today is how resistant he is to the idea of VE being mafia. Why is it so hard for him to see it? I don't quite understand. Obviously this relies on VE actually being mafia, but as I've said today, I'm fairly certain. While bits and pieces of this case are associations with VE, what the important thing to note here is how he played day 1, and what he was going to do day 3 had VE not become the focus. Today, we'll see what CC has in store for us. Right now, I'm apt to believe he's actually the second of the three mafia we've been looking for this game. The scum team proposed yesterday, and the one I talked about today, no longer applies. | ||
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Sloosh got the gist of my VE case in three points, here: On February 20 2013 16:47 slOosh wrote: Finished rereading. I fully endorse this position and will be willing to vote into any one of these 3 players. So town team of me, CC, yamato, Oats & jay - so at this point it's just convincing you guys that we are town and have to consolidate on them. If me flipping town today helps Oats see better, than I'm fine with that. Oats: I'm going to do this two ways. One is why I'm probably town, and one is why VE is probably scum. D1: I am voted with Mocsta and Palmar. Mocsta is pretty much established town. Palmar has a great reputation as a town player. Why would I put myself up as scum? How could I have known that Palmar would be sick all day? Because if Palmar chose to start contributing, then I would surely be dead. With yamato's case, the issue at hand is that VE is claiming that he is town because of his pushing Snarfs, when in reality, he wasn't really pushing Snarfs, but just pretending to do so. That is what yamato is pointing out. Pushing town over scum isn't the point - pushing town over scum while claiming to be pushing the scum the whole time as justification of his towniness is the issue. If you consequently observe VE's filter, there are 3 things that categorize his play. 1) Setup talk, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing 2) Focus on lurkers, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing 3) Hunting the "least useful" townie on even days, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing When does VE try to push a scum lynch? You may think Snarfs, but as yamato shows, he really doesn't. VE has been pushing lurkers and least useful townies and that is all that he is interested in. He isn't truly scumhunting. | ||
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It seemed like a pivotal moment day 3, to me. What was your decision making process there? | ||
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What really irked me about your play this game was how bland everything you wrote was. Town VE is insane. You need to capture that in your scum play to truly ascend to greatness. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
What's good about this setup is that it forces mafia to play proactively, as GMarshal said, because if you sit back for even a minute and town develops some cohesion, you can quickly lose the game. This is what I feel happened at the end of the game, I managed to get my shit together for long enough to rally town around me, and had some decent reads to go along with it. This easily could have been Palmar or Sloosh had they had more time, but the fact remains that mafia had to be ahead of the curve so to speak, instead of reactionary. Another good point about the setup is that it forces town to truly scumhunt. There's no real way of confirming town in this setup, and there's no mechanic to rely on but your own ability to analyse the play of others, and that is where I managed to do well in this game. This, I feel, is the essence of real town play, and what I loved about playing in the game. There was nothing for me to worry about except for getting people's alignments correct, which I did over the long course of this game. The bad thing for mafia about the setup, as was mentioned, was how long the game really was. Phagga, for instance, was a REALLY EASY mislynch for most of the game, but there at the end he put in some more effort and I saw the town in him, which was a big thing in the game. Because of the length of the game, it is significantly more difficult to keep up appearances, and it does give scummy-looking townies time to shape up. Also, the wealth of information I had to draw from in MYLO was huge, because of how long the game had gone on. The time also hurts town somewhat, as there are some townies like Oats who only looked worse as the game went on. The worst thing for town with the setup, though, was the dawn phase, as anything done there could ONLY have helped mafia. Shortening or eliminating it might have helped the game be slightly more active and solved some of those problems. As for town's overall play, I would definitely say that I had a difficult time getting a solid town read on some of you. Without meta, I think I would never have been able to figure out Oats, Jay, or Prplhz. Phagga, as I said, shaped up a lot at the end, but for most of the game he was quite easily mislynched. Sloosh and Palmar apparently had real time constraints early on, so while that hurt my early game, I think if both of them had lived I would have put Palmar with Sloosh as town in my reads. Mocsta played well throughout the game, no complaints there, his lynch D4 was bad but it was a product of the bus that happened the day before, heh. Mafia's overall play was quite good. Snarfs played alright day 1, and if he had continued to seem interested in hunting mafia, I probably would not have been able to read him correctly. Djo was bad from the start, but debears played very well when he replaced in aside from his hard-defense of VE. VE's overall game was quite good D2-4, but I caught him mainly on what he did day 1, which Marv commented on as the worst day of his play. Cheesecake played a decent scum game, but what I felt lacking from his play is a certain amount loudness that I associate with town CC that tipped me off to him early D3. He might have been able to win the game for mafia had he not been so non-committal about VE at MYLO and just lynched him. It was that indecisiveness that really clued me in to his alignment and had me filter-diving him for the case I posted here earlier. As for my own play, I feel like it was very average. D1, as mentioned, I was completely wrong, and I was feeling quite good about the game. JX's flip to me was a small surprise, but I see now that I was quite wrong and tunneled at the time, so I realize my mistake there. D2 I had to know Palmar's alignment, because it would have bothered me for a while. D3 was the worst day for me in the game, and I had a noticeable lack of effort for a while after I managed to convince town I wasn't mafia. I do think VE's decision to call me town and not reaffirm people's suspicions was something that was unnecessary, but it did fool me, so what do I know. D4 I barely read. My case on Mocsta was bad, and full of conspiracy theories, but his flip made me rethink the game a Bit. D5 should not have happened, and after Prplhz flipped town I immediately realized my mistake, and that's really where I gained the motivation to finish out the game. From D6 onwards the game came really easily to me and I was able to pick apart the team due to the bad parts of their play, which was largely day 1. Overall, I struggled finding time to play at some parts, and at others I really just didn't feel all that motivated. I feel like it was dumb luck that I managed to figure the game out, but I can't deny I truly had a rush of exhilaration when I made that case on VE. This was the most fun mafia game I've played to date, and also the one I feel like I did the best in. I will definitely be joining the next iteration of Nomination Mafia, and hopefully by then it won't take me six ingame days to figure the game out. heh. | ||
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