EPTNomination Mafia
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Snarfs
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On February 05 2013 13:46 Promethelax wrote: Not if I want to graduate I couldn't. Sorry bro. Pfft, graduating's overrated  . Just become a career student, like me! | ||
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On February 06 2013 07:09 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh and in case I roll scum, I'm changing up my playstyle this game. So...yeah. Expect the unexpected. EXPECT IT!!! /eyeroll Do you still say this every game? | ||
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On February 06 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Also, WHERE DID YOU GO VE? Hmm, disappear while two other players start shitting up the thread? Congrats VE, you're already #1 on my list. ##vote VisceraEyes As far as the voting mechanics go, it really is a ton of WIFOm. You're both saying the same thing in different ways. Yes, we lynch scum and we need to not look scummy. Yes, scum is going to try to trick us into debating ad infinitum about the composition of their nominations. That pretty much ends the discussion, doesn't it? Look very closely at everything the nominees say and lynch the scum. No need to over complicate it. If it comes down to multiple people contributing well to town, we can discuss it then. | ||
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On February 06 2013 14:27 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey Snarfs, Do you have any conclusions about the 'discussion' between me and Mocsta relating to our alignments/ Not really being swayed either way. Looks like standard day 1 banter. | ||
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On February 06 2013 14:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey, Tell me more about yourself, How many games have you played, which alignment do you like to play, are you scum or town? I played a few games last year, maybe 5 or 6? Mafia'a pretty much all you'll find if you search my post history, and you'll be able to tell quite quickly from those that I hate playing scum. Which makes me a happy camper this game  . Now tell me what you know of VE from past experience and what you think of his disappearing act. | ||
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On February 06 2013 15:33 Mocsta wrote: I disagree. Having said that, I am going to hold off further strategy talk due to: fuck all people online. Need some others to contribute. @Snarf What do you make of VE wanting to bury all nomination mechanic talk till the nominations are released? I think it's a null tell. Town would do it if they wanted to shift the focus off of WIFOM. Scum would do it if they thought it was in town's best interests to be talking about the setup. I've personally never cared for too much setup speculation as most of my scum hunting success has come from observing what they actually do, not guessing at what they should be doing. | ||
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As a preview though, I'm still getting a bad vibe from VE. It's a feeling right now but I wouldn't mind more people looking at him closely and just really asking if he's trying to find scum. | ||
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1) On VE: My vote on VE was initially because of exactly what I said - of the three people that came into the conversation, he was the quickest to abandon it when things got heated. Now, he claims that he was commuting and I can't exactly dispute that. But since then, I've had no reason to move my vote off of him. Look at the way he's saying things. Who is he even pressuring? Read through his filter and try to figure out who he's pushing. Palmar!? We're not lynching Palmar day 1, why waste time? As for the other people VE is "pressuring", there's no vindication. Phagga? Nope. yamato? Maybe, I can't really tell. When VE is town, he pushes people. He pushes them hard to determine their alignment and it's obvious he's pushing people. I think this is scum VE. 2) In response to Mr. Cheesecake: On February 07 2013 04:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ==SNIP== Snarfs Been playing super neutral so far and non confrontational. Example: If you CAN do something, then you do it. This post serves no purpose other than to illustrate that either Oats or Mocsta could be stubborn for "possibly" some sort of trap, but then says he doesn't have enough information. I was just saying what was on my mind. I was hoping by adding the "but" part of things someone else who knew these players would chime in. There are a lot of new faces here for me, and I apologize for not making it more clear that I was looking for some input from someone else. Either way, the point I was getting across was that it was not scummy that they were arguing like that. I was just answering the question that was asked. The only real stance he had on someone is VE, but the only justification is for his "disappearing act". Snarfs has had plenty of time to justify his vote, but all I see is "lol people were shouting in thread you weren't there must be scum". Apart from that, the only thing he's done is talk about WIFOM crap. Snarfs plz do something instead of trying to be all blendy and stuff, k? ==SNIP== Please read my first point and if this comment still stands feel free to rephrase it or ask again. 3) On Mocsta: It looks like most of the votes on Mocsta are based on meta (correct me if I'm wrong, please: Oats, yamato, JX). Now, from the case that yamato makes, my biggest issue is that the tone between NMM XXXV (the referenced scum game) and this game is quite different. In the referenced game, he is quite unabrasive. He is questioning people but he's not actually showing any emotion, as in this game. Compare: I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy. BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid". I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt. When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute. You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention. I ask that you please think about the above. vs. Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph. You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else. I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia. I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town, I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier. Quote 1 sounds all nice and blendy in. Quote 2 is.. not. This meta argument is not convincing enough to sway me to change my vote. | ||
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Guys, Palmar is not a lynch target day 1. Why? Because if he's town, he will find scum! And if he doesn't find scum, we lynch him later in the game! It's that simple! He's too hard to read otherwise, and this is by far the best indicator of his alignment. Lynching him day 1 is way too risky in a cost/benefit sense. As for people doubting my read on VE (clearly this is the case as no one seems to be listening), if you have time right now please look through my history for the game where I vig'd VE night 1 when him and ace were scum. It was one of bugs' games, I can't remember the name right now and I'm on my phone or I'd look it up myself. He's playing exactly like that! Now I'm going to finish catching up. I can make a more detailed case on VE when I'm not lying in bed at 7 am (I'll pull the quoted out of that game for you if no one else does me the favour of linking it). | ||
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I don't think prplhz is a good lynch. Normally when prplhz is town I feel like he's scummy and right now I feel like he's scummy so he's probably town. Last time we played together we were both scum and he was a lot more tunnely. Last time I was town I tried to lynch him because he gives off this just blending in vibe that I picked up this game from his first couple of posts - my immediate reaction was to agree with Palmar that he's scum, but I double checked these last two games I'm talking about and this seems much more in line with town prplhz. | ||
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On February 08 2013 01:29 phagga wrote: tl;dr you think this is his town meta, right? What do you think is scummy about prplhz? Can you reference the two games you are talking about? Yes, give me 2 seconds. | ||
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Movie Star Mini Mafia Notice how prplhz comes out immediately swinging at MrZ. And he locks on. First it starts as policy, then he creates a case out of it. He even says things like I don't really like to talk about people who aren't my biggest scum read Compare that with Town prplhz: Wheel of Fortune Prplhz is calm and collected. He's questioning people. He's not jumping to conclusions, but rather stating his feelings and attempting to gather more information on them. | ||
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On March 18 2012 07:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Step one is establishing my innocence. You don't buy it, maybe some will. This is but a step along the path. Walk with me my son. He wants people to know he's town! He wants to establish innocence! This would make even more sense in a game where HE CAN'T BE KILLED AT NIGHT. On March 18 2012 07:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I can assure you no cop is going to need to check me by the end of the day johnnywup. I can see skepticism in your weary eyes. Perhaps jaded by the scum's repeated attempts at manipulation? Deceit taking it's toll on your very soul? Those days are over. Again, he wants people to know he's town! He wants to be the big man on campus when he's town. On March 18 2012 08:32 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm interested in the answer to this as well. I have my own reasons, and I've strategically omitted them for an occasion such as this! What fun! He plays around with people to try and actually figure out if they're scum! He prods and gets people to react emotionally. I see very little of that this game. What I expect from scum VE On April 22 2012 21:53 VisceraEyes wrote: It was mostly me disagreeing with Forumite's case. Zentor seems like a lurky-scum kinda player, and doubt as scum he'd enter the game voting for himself. That's kinda an advanced scum move and (no offense Zentor) not one I see MrZentor making. I could have just said "I don't agree with a MrZentor vote" but the way I said it gets more people to trust me faster...or so I thought. No, it was just my entry into the game after drinking at my sister's bday party guys, nothing to see here. However, let's try that again with less alcohol in my bloodstream :D @Forumite So it is your opinion that MrZentor, as scum, voted for himself only to "get responses from people" and then, as scum, singled out prplhz? In the name of....what? Furthering his scum agenda? I don't know, I see it more as a townZentor move myself. That's why I disagree. Wishy-washy. "oooo I don't know... i see it more as townZentor... boohoo" On April 24 2012 02:06 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Forumite is town - but I think his MrZentor wagon is weak as shit, because I think Zentor is town too. :S "oooo I THINK they're both town but I could be wrong..." On April 24 2012 04:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Well, I know marvellosity is capable of more - I didn't look at his early play, admittedly my expectation of him is based on his later game activity which I have read. Sbrubbles OMGUS of me is strange, considering the reason he's saying I'm suspicious is all the "good discussion town has had over suspicious behavior" and my penchant to "vote a lurker like him" in spite of it "usually being good town play". Like...it doesn't register. I'm good with my vote on him. If we're consolidating, I prefer it's on this guy. Someone needs to tell me why their candidate is better than mine. "Screw it, I'm too tired to find scum. Let's just vote this guy who thinks I'm scum." THINGS YOU SHOULD BE NOTICING: 1) When he's town he doesn't give a f***. 2) When he's town he MAKES DAMN SURE HE LOOKS TOWN 3) When he's town his reads actually make sense, when he's scum I can't tell why he's doing what he's doing. I can't tell his motives right now. I don't know why he's voting for prplhz. Because Palmar is? But Palmar is his number 1 scum read? It doesn't make sense! Scum scum scum. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:08 Djodref wrote: @ Snarfs VE is not going to get lynched today. Please stop your tunnel and start to give your opinion on the possible lynch candidates for today. I'd like to hear from you about Palmar, JieXian and prplhz. Are you even reading the thread? I've already posted about Palmar and prplhz. And there's still plenty of time to lynch VE. People just need to read his filter and compare it with the two games I just referenced. It's pretty friggen obvious. @slOosh, prplhz: I want you both to comment seriously on VE's play this game in regards to his meta. And I'd rather lynch you than JX. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:08 Mocsta wrote: *Facepalm* Sorry I didnt realise in vet world, finishing with "scum scum scum" was a killing blow to get votes. Look will read this in detail, but so far, I didnt see any quotes from this game. Seems like you did a pure meta read; right now, pretty disappointed I had to wait for this. I'm trying to illustrate here how VE finds scum. If you read his filter this game, you'll notice this is not what he's doing. If you know how someone tries to find scum and you know that that's not what they're doing this game, then it's a combination of meta and gamesense, or whatever you want to call it. This is not VE trying to find scum. | ||
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On February 08 2013 02:35 Mocsta wrote: Snarfs; I read your case in detail. Im going to be blunt here. Before I read your case: My matrix: Snarfs:null, VE: probably town. After I read your case: No change. May I add, using your criteria for town VE, makes me think he is town even more. Whats agitating with your case is that the meta is from March 2012. The game changes, and so do people. (Yes subconscious behaviour probably doesnt.. but that isnt int he crux of your commentary) You're pointing out post structure meta etc and its out of date by one year. I was hoping you were going to post a read from Normal Mini mafia 4 (Meta Feb 2013, he was town) ===================== What are we left with? Either: You are scum, and trying to contribute without contributing OR You are tunneled town, that was so fixated on a concept you couldnt let go. Many in the thread will probably say you're scum; I want to give you a chance as i think something like this is far more likely from tunneled town. Can you please discuss the following: @Snarfs You said before you dont think Palmar should be lynched. However, Palmar has voted prplhz; who many have defended as town due to meta (including you) If you think prplhz is town; do you still support Palmar surviving this lynch? If so, I would like a detailed response on why. I'll answer your question but I need you to answer mine: Tell me why you think VE is "probably town". I just don't see him trying to find scum right now. And sure, maybe my meta is out of date, but that doesn't change the fact that he's still being all wishy-washy like in his reads. Look at how he attacks me: On February 07 2013 09:35 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone. First of all, something I noticed last night. Here we see Snarfs' first vote on me. He's convinced of my alignment based on the fact that I left the thread "when two other players start shitting up the thread". But...why? Why is that indicative of me being scum? The only way that makes sense is if he is assuming that Oats and Mocsta are both town...and this is a conclusion he couldn't have already come to at this point in the game. This alone isn't really enough for me to call him scum, but then we see how he pushes me after this: Anything new in there? Just a weak-ass meta read based on 24 hours of D1. But he asked for others' opinions TWICE in those two posts. We have players who haven't said fuck all. He's saying we can't lynch Palmar today...why? Why the fuck not? He's not doing shit. But he wants to lynch me? Based on what? A weak ass meta read and an absence I've explained? It's cognitive dissonance. Why would he be against lynching Palmar D1 and not against lynching VE D1 for the same reason? I mean, okay if he thinks Palmar is better for town than me assuming we're both town, that's one thing...but he doesn't say as much. He simply shuts down the Palmar lynch for no reason...when no one is even voting for Palmar but me. Now I'm at a crossroads. I want to kill Palmar with the holy fire of righeousness. But I also want Snarfs to hang. I want others' opinions of this, because at this point I could go either way. Kill the scummy lurker who doesn't give a shit, or kill the scummy active participant? Right now I'm leaning lynching Palmar, but if there's more support for a Snarfs lynch I'm all over that shit. First of all, notice how he starts "I think Snarfs might well be scum. So here's a little push in his direction, care of the guy who isn't pushing anyone." He's not aggressive, he's not interested. Hell he's not even addressing me. ------------------------------------------- I still don't like a Palmar lynch. I can't read Palmar like I can read VE. If I thought VE might be town I would be just as against a VE lynch as a Palmar lynch because they both have an uncanny ability to find scum as town. | ||
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I haven't had a time to go back over JX's games, but I'm in the same boat as Palmar. Just from a cursory glance, I don't see anything scum-motivated. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote: I like how you literally just said you're in the same boat as someone who's not even playing the game. You're spinning my words to make it sound how you want it to sound. That's scummy. You're scum. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:44 Mocsta wrote: Please explain to me the two things from JX, and how they are town-motivated or NOT alignment indicative. (1) His first post = a case on Mocsta. Specifically the focus of the case being pre-game commentary. He could have believed Mocsta was scum? He follows up by comparing your meta. And he tries to question you on your apparent change in meta. There's no scum motive here. Btw Mocsta what happened to the level headed guy I knew? You're yelling at oats like Vivax (2) Last night when he becamse active, starts questioning Djo motives (multiple times) Then picks onto grammar issues with reads on Oats (and completely misinterprets the commentary) again multiple times Once I threw some doubt onto Palmar, he immediately bandwagons the vote. with "I agree" Proceeds to make the 180' case on Oats; which is really alignment null for Oats.. im still surprised prplhz jumped all over him for that. Once I put the limelight back on JX, he disappears (him, me, Djo, Oats are all the same timezone btw) Im not seeing how all those points are town/alignment null indicators, so I am keen for your insight. (because of top of those actions, you have the meta case on him from Yamato) Bad town explains all those things. In fact, you pointing it out makes it sound even more like bad town. Why would scum call someone out for something as dumb as that? Why would scum make a complete 180 and draw a bunch of attention to themselves? | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Snarfs, you havent actually linked VE's meta in this game to his meta in his scum game. Care to do so? Or you just want to tunnel him to oblivion. Have your read changed since your vote? Since VE isnt gonna get lynched today, Snarfs, are you gonna waste your vote? I've tried to make myself as clear as possible in linking VE's meta to this game. I think that some other people who have played with VE in the past are also picking up on it so I feel like I'm finally starting to make my point. And I think JX is gonna get lynched either way. | ||
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On February 08 2013 10:46 Mocsta wrote: Snarfs, I think to promote good town atmosphere we need to avoid taking this easy stances without justification. This to me is no different than "sheeping" and is not helping me discern you as town or scum. Please, if you agree with someones rational, at least point out why. Because he hasn't done anything with scum motive. I don't know how else to explain it besides in that last post addressing your questions. Everything could be explained by some form of bad town. | ||
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On February 08 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Snarfs, I DONT SEE THE META LINK. I see you posting 2 games, 1 of which he is town and 1 of which is scum. I dont see how you linked the scum game to this game. All I did was to see the differences in those games. The link is that he's playing more like the scum game than the town game. It's in the way he pushes and tries to get information from people. | ||
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On February 08 2013 11:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I think VE is town at this point actually. Also, you tried to sheep Palmar in an effort to look good. Even though Palmar hasnt actually played the game, and you have, and you did exactly NOTHING with your thinking that JX is town Could you expand on WHY you think he's town? | ||
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And really, what is with this whole "not explaining town reads" stuff? I'm fairly certain scum made that up ages ago so that they wouldn't have to give out reads. Seriously, why is VE town? I am damn near convinced that he isn't. Like, if I had another gun tonight I'd shoot him again. So please, tell me why he is town. | ||
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b) Dissonant vote on prplhz while still wanting to kill Palmar c) Half-hearted switch to JieXian d) Wishy-washy statements about other players | ||
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On February 09 2013 10:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: wow Snarfs, what a new and exciting concept. Thank you for this revelation. So I take it I can hold you to not WIFOMing about anything for the rest of the game, or else your scum? Noted. | ||
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On February 08 2013 22:20 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Up... I'll say that 3 town picks are likely but not guaranteed in the slightest. One scum could easily be in there. Either way, do not succumb to WIFOM and lynch someone just because they were / were not in the nomination. Just lynch the scummiest person who is nominated so we don't have to deal with them on a normal day. This is a distinct advantage for us because we purge the town of the scummiest person (within nominations) instead of scum killing the towniest of townies. Anyways, I'll be around for a while if y'alls has les questions. Gonna prep some stuff for the following day. Ah, I see you said the same thing. I need more sleep. I just know that as soon as the list is posted there's going to be a bunch of people coming in here trying to determine WHY some people were chosen, and as long as ONE town does it, it's okay for scum to do it as well which fucks everything up. So I don't mind reiterating the point at all. | ||
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Scummiest so far. | ||
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On February 09 2013 12:08 Oatsmaster wrote: Snarfs, what do you hope to achieve with your vote? The candidates havent even shown up yet I hope to get Palmar in the thread telling us why prplhz is scum despite the arguments to the contrary on day 1. | ||
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Yes, I have the utmost respect for Palmar; however, inactive Palmar is just frustrating  .I might be drunk though, so if this sounds way too crazy, please call me out on it haha | ||
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On February 09 2013 12:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp isnt getting lynched in the next 47 hours. Do you care who is getting lynched today? Why are you so antagonistic, Oats? | ||
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Your attempt at calling negative attention to prplhz On February 08 2013 22:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok guys, what do you think about prp, or more specifically, his vote? A few hours/posts before he leaves, he posts this And then His vote ??? Conveniently neglects the following posts: On February 08 2013 03:16 prplhz wrote: I'm not sure. I want to lynch jaybrundage but no one else likes that lynch. I want to lynch Palmar but I see no reason to do it right now when we might as well just do it later. I actually like Snarfs case on VisceraEyes. On February 08 2013 07:38 prplhz wrote: @VisceraEyes Why are you so anxious to get rid of Palmar right now? No one said it could last forever. Why would we take the fact that he is Palmar away from the equation considering that .... he is Palmar? On February 08 2013 08:28 prplhz wrote: You can't mention Snarfs case as reasonable for possibily lynching VisceraEyes when you have said (repeatedly) that it isn't a good case. I can do that, however, since I've always liked Snarfs case. I don't like the looks of VisceraEyes. I'll lynch him over JieXian. That seems pretty damn scummy to me. | ||
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I'm still not sure on who to lynch today after Palmar's last post. I like killing yamato. And Oats. And VE still. I'll be back later to post more. | ||
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To summarize while I have time: VE: not scum hunting like normal, placing wishy washy votes and not really caring. Not giving good reasoning for actions. Oats: No reason for town to attempt to discredit prplhz like he did, whether prplhz is town or scum doesn't matter, Oats deliberately attempted to mislead us with his quotes. Yamato: similar feeling as VE, doesn't seem to be trying to find scum, more just playing the "see what gets me by card". If anyone doesn't have a good enough argument for these people though, I will gladly address their questions when I find time tomorrow. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Will be a more intimate/team-oriented mafia next time. | ||
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