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Nomination Mafia - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 18:05 GMT
#335
QUOTE]On January 20 2013 22:18 Mocsta wrote:
On January 20 2013 22:11 Djodref wrote:

@ Mocsta

Sorry, I didn't see your answer.
Do you really think yamato is going to be elected today ? I personally don't think so becauset yamato didn't "officially" campaign, and he is not known to have good reads so...
If not, I'm curious to know what raised your attention in his posts.



It doesnt matter if i think yamato is a candidate with a chance to win, I represent one vote out of 22.


I thought yamato campaigned passive-aggressively; just like Toad.
Its an approach I am oft in favour of when attempting to look squeaky-clean whilst attempting to manipulate.


Having said that, its not pertinent to determining alignment. At least not with the information we have currently.

[/QUOTE]

This is from page 1 of Mocsta's filter in LIX, the game he was town. He gives out, in the part I bolded, his rationale in thinking Toad and I might be mafia, but in doing so reveals his own thought process when mafia, that being passive-aggressive is a way to play mafia.

On January 12 2013 16:38 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 12 2013 14:22 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'm not denying, discussion is good/important and if nobody starts it scum autowin. However, if a scum can get control of town fast, they almost instawin. As a gambit, it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast.
...


@Sn0_Man
I appreciate the sense of energy you are giving back to this thread, and I certainly do not want to deter that; town needs this energy.

BUT.. you are almost sounding "paranoid" - I know this, because after my last game, many assumed I was "paranoid".

I think we both want the same thing, a town environment where people can voice their opinion and join together for the scum hunt.

When you say "it seems fair since people like you are jumping in to defend him pretty fast"; that alienates participants from wanting to contribute.

You are actually creating an environment scum can thrive in with that attitude - even though I doubt that is your intention.


I ask that you please think about the above.



This is the first alignment-indicative post Mocsta made in NMM XXXV, the game he was mafia. What do you notice here?

On February 06 2013 15:49 Mocsta wrote:
Oats you have an uncanny ability to read a wall of text and focus on one word in that paragraph.

You sound like a whiny chick to me, who hears one word she doesnt like, and zones off to everything else.

I AM NOT SETUP SPECULATING. The fuckn setup is 9 town, 4 mafia.

I am saying we need to make scum work hard to become read as town,
I am saying good play Day1 is to emphasise quality posts, and avoid being a lurker
I am saying, bad play Day1, is going to make nominations for scum in Day2 much fuckn easier.


He's making the same sort of argument about Oats this game that he did about Sn0 in the other game, that their play isn't "optimal" and they are "helping mafia". It's a fabricated read, in my eyes, and a fabricated contribution to say such things. It doesn't matter how a player is playing versus how you think the ideal town player SHOULD play, it matters if that player is playing in a way you know mafia would play.

On January 12 2013 22:38 Mocsta wrote:
Well im going to bed anyways.. will check in the thread in the morning, and will then be away for at least 6 hrs. *sigh*

Please generate some discussions USA shift ! There are still plenty of players who have not even posted yet.



zebezt, trust me.. I know the feeling to want some discussion happening, but, as town we don't want to create spam. Unfortunately now its just a waiting game for some activity.

[Unless 24hrs has expired.. thats my personal deadline for lurker calling]



On February 06 2013 17:10 Mocsta wrote:
Oats,
Stop getting over-defensive. Now you have to spell out actions.

If you couldnt tell my post was a joke, you have problems.

And your comment regarding my intentions is stupid. You admit yourself it is "optimal play'.. well no shit, why you think I am striving for that. Im not trying to re-invent the wheel.

Again you are flinging shit at an active participant, and for what purpose?
Still, no one is contributing; and the one guy who does, you tell him to "fuck off" whether joke or not.

Lay off the juice and give others a chance to input into the thread.


Those two posts showcase a trait I see in Mafia Mocsta's play, a preoccupation with "contribution" and "lurking" from other players. Aside from the meta similarity here, the mafia trait is that he's doing exactly what he thinks people give out town reads for, and indeed what some of you have given him a town read for this game, simply post. He calls out "lurkers" to appear to contribute and care about the town atmosphere, something I readily see as a common trait in his mafia game and this one.

On January 13 2013 07:14 Mocsta wrote:
Wow. Thats it over the night shift.

Oats u sound like sno_man.

perhaps the aggresion u 2 have shown is why there is a lack of discussion.

I think u should read what i posted to him.

My questions are ice breakers and i have not a genuine comment from to stimulate town conversation. In fact. You are deterring conversation.

@oatsmaster
Why should i NOT treat is the outcome of your agressive posts [stopping fluid and positive town conversation] as scummy motivations


On February 06 2013 16:34 Mocsta wrote:
VE, you posted you would prefer nomination discussion to be held post Day 2 Dawn - when scum lynch candidates are released.

My motive for the quote was along the lines of: the candidates are going to be chosen based on play Day 1. Yes that statement is obvious, hoever what I am trying to highlight is that effort needs to be made to make the decision for scum difficult.

I listed 4 scenarios scum can take; we can't control that decision. What we can CONTROL is the viability of one of those options - to me, this is of benefit to town as it reduces WIFOM choices.

I thought my message(s) were clear cut, but, perhaps I am not communicating myself effectively. If not, please let me know.


Again, two similar posts in rationale from NMM XXXV and this game. In both posts, he wants to paint what he's doing as "pro-town" by, again, promoting a positive discussion-based atmosphere. He's concerned with how people perceive what he's doing, and wants to control the discussion on the matter. It's mafia mentality, plenty of people, Marv included, attempt to play "pro-town" when mafia. Mcosta, when mafia, is obsessed with the concept, just like he is in this game.

I highly doubt Mocsta is town. Who is his scum read so far? All I see in his filter is a bunch of arguing with Oats, and then arriving at the conclusion that he's town/null/whatever. It doesn't look to me like he's hunting mafia, it looks like to me that he's just trying to look town.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 18:42 GMT
#341
I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far.

What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum.

You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 18:45 GMT
#342
Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 18:54 GMT
#344
On February 07 2013 03:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh you. Of course I can't consolidate my posts. ^^ I'm not even spamming.

One thing I didn't like about yamato's case on Mocsta doesn't even have to do with the content of the case...it's the lack of a vote attached to it. It's like he's feeling out the lynch before committing.

Yamato accuses Mocsta of "fabricating" his read on Oats, but most of what he's accusing Mocsta of is not even alignment indicative. Honestly, I don't even know what "fabricating" a read means.

On the whole, I don't like what I've seen from yamato so far. It's reminiscent of his attack on me in the last game we played.

Lemme go take a look at phagga. I noticed that he was your top read only a few posts ago, now he's "to a lesser degree". Should I assume you're disliking yamato more now?

I already have my vote on him.

I understand what you're saying, though I don't think this is anything like my attack on you in Normal 4.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:10 GMT
#346
So, I'm mafia because I won't tell you why I think phagga might be town?

Lol. Okay. Sure. Waste today thinking that.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:17 GMT
#349
So you think he's town?

Or what?
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:27 GMT
#350
Let me think this through.

First, you think phagga is "interesting" or whatever, which should in this context mean that you think he might be or is mafia. If not, why mention it?

Then I agree with your general thoughts, but disagree ultimately because of town tells in his filter, which I won't give out because it's giving mafia an advantage to talk about what makes you see people as town.

Then I make my case on Mocsta, which you disagree with for your own reasons, but then say I SHOULD have a mafia read on Phagga based on the same logic, and call me mafia for it.

All this time, what do you think Phagga is? Mafia? Town? If you think he's mafia, why are you trying to push a case on me for not thinking he is? If you think he's town, why are you talking about him like you think he's mafia?

If you don't have a read on him at all, why did you mention it? And why is me talking about my conflicting views on Phagga's play somehow scummy?

Lots of questions, very little answers in your filter so far. I'm being dismissive because it seems ridiculous to me that you think I'm mafia in this situation, but I've seen weirder so you get the benefit of the doubt. Explain yourself.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:36 GMT
#353
Furthermore, note that if you don't think anyone could get a read on him at this point, I haven't exactly given my certain read on him either. My references to him have been that I think he's overall scummy, but there are things that make me doubt it, and that I want MORE from him to get a better read.

I think this was just a misunderstanding. You thought I had a town read I didn't. Fair enough.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:46 GMT
#355
On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 06 2013 17:13 Mocsta wrote:
On February 06 2013 17:05 phagga wrote:
On February 06 2013 16:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Fuck you VE, I WILL NEVER SUBMIT. I AM ALWAYS RIGHT AND ALL OF YOU ARE FOOLS.


Also,
Phagga, do you have any thoughts about,
VE lurker lynching
Mocsta+Me 'argument'


Short on time.

I agree with the lurker lynching early as we cannot differentiate between lurkers and scum later on and we have no mechanic to clear lurkers / confirm them town.

Will post more later.

I hope you do, thats essentially a re-cap of two pages of thread.


I just want to add something shorty in terms of lynching lurkers: D1 lynches are often crapshots, Kitaman analysed in anohter thread that town would be better off RNG the D1 lynch generally than trying to analyse and find scum. Combine this with the beformentioned fact that we have mechanics to differentiate lukers from scum or get rid of them, I therefore embrace a lynch on a lurker on who we cannot get an alignement read, should one be available.

Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like

Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you.


are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?"

This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you.



While this is, indeed, similar language to Mocsta and my mafia tell on him, the fact that he points out things about Mocsta in general so far makes me think him more town. Why would one mafia player pick at his mate this early in the game? It's a weak tell, like I've said, but it is one nonetheless.

On February 07 2013 01:04 phagga wrote:
Djo: I'm not gonna lynch a random target. I don't know what to do with Oats currently, he is either scum trying to shit up the thread to disrupt town, or stubborn, but I'm sure not just gonnay vote for him because you claim he came up on your RNG.

Also, prplhz not scum, and Palmar better gets some more content in here.


He reached the same conclusion I did about Prplhz, something I find encouraging for his town alignment. Perhaps this is a little foolhardy, to think someone town for thinking like me, but giving out a quick town read like that is also a towntell to me in general.

On February 07 2013 01:41 phagga wrote:
Regarding Palmar, I dont like how he throws a vote without explanation and then in his next post he implies: "Guys, I got this really good plan for tomorrow so don't lynch me today even though I might be lurking, mkay?"

Sloosh, do you mean me talking about lurkers or about Mocsta/Oats?


He calls out Palmar, and gives an accurate analysis of what he's done so far. While I know Palmar can, and will, do this as either mafia or town, the fact that he bothers to notice and point it out is somewhat encouraging. Again, I could be wrong about this as people agreeing with my first impressions aren't always town, but it's enough for me to doubt him being mafia, which is what I've said about him so far.

Happy now?
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 19:49 GMT
#356
For the record, I hate giving out town tells as town. LIX is an easy example.

However, as mafia in Normal 4, I gave them out like candy.

If you think I'm mafia, go read those two games and rethink your position.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 20:13 GMT
#357
So let's talk some more about Mocsta's alignment.

What about my case, where I showcase the similarity in meta to this game and NMM XXXV, is or isn't good?

What about his play this game is townlike?

Discuss.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 20:45 GMT
#359
The Man of the Hour!

How nice of you to appear!

What are YOUR thoughts on Yamato/Sloosh? You conveniently forgot to mention us in that post there.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 21:00 GMT
#361
On February 07 2013 05:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'm not a fan of asking people to replace out due to skill level, but I don't think it's indicative of Mocsta's alignment. Taken with everything else, I think Mocsta is town.

You know yamato for someone who's so against talking about townreads, you seem to be keen on asking people for theirs in the form of seeking arguments against your case. Are you aware of that?

I'm just trying to understand how people view his alignment, to be honest, and to see their reasons for defending him.

I really think he has a really good chance of being lynched, and I want information from people about him now rather than later when everyone realizes he's dead.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 06 2013 23:35 GMT
#371
I could get behind a Palmar lynch depending on his involvement with the game.

I think Mocsta could be lynched because Oats and JX share votes with me on him and Djo shows interest in the lynch. That's 4 people already.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 01:58 GMT
#389
On February 07 2013 09:50 Mocsta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 07 2013 09:48 jaybrundage wrote:
Oh and plz peoples give me your thoughts on my Djo case.

Agreed. For me, its between him/yamato/jiexian.

Show nested quote +
On February 07 2013 09:19 Mocsta wrote:
(1) Issues with people overnight
  • Djodref The RNG tirade is over. If you want to vote for Oats, make a case and with due supporting evidence. Your actions over Day1 so far read to me as a guy trying to push his agenda by "fallacy: bandwagoning' hoping someone is zealous enough to blindly follow.


So your scumreads are three of the four people who think you might be mafia?

Why do people think you're town again?
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 02:17 GMT
#396
Djo, what do you make of Mocsta's case on me up there?

I have a hard time thinking it came from scum but he quite clearly misunderstands quite a lot of stuff.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 03:54 GMT
#414
I'm starting to come around to the idea of town Mocsta, actually. I believe he has a scum read on me, wrong or not. I'm not going to pick apart his case on me, because honestly it's too time consuming to do so, but rather, I'll say this: Reread what you've quoted with the idea that I'm town in your head, and you'll see what I've been doing this game. It does no good for you, as town, to continue to pursue me.

With that, I'd be behind a JX lynch. His one post is a "case" and vote on Mocsta. He was a QT spammer in our game together, and was far more active there than the thread, as opposed to his "carefree" town games like LIX. I'd be behind his lynch.

Palmar should also be on people's minds. No, you don't want to lynch Palmar D1 if he's town, but you don't exactly want him staying alive until tomorrow if mafia, either, so if he refuses to do anything for the rest of today I would say he should almost certainly be our lynch. A weak ass joke-vote on Prplhz is not meaningful contribution.

I don't like a Djodref lynch at the moment, but I need to reassess his posting from a more objective standpoint. I was giving him too much credit for his Mocsta read before. Still, I think he is perhaps not the best choice in front of people like JX/Palmar, so he's a backburner for me.

I don't know what's going on between VE/Snarfs, but I don't think people are cool with lynching VE so Snarfs needs some better contributions than a "case" on VE that I don't find to be good.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 03:57 GMT
#415
Also,

##Unvote
##Vote JieXian


Or however you spell his name.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 04:04 GMT
#417
On February 07 2013 13:00 Oatsmaster wrote:
Either Yamato is scum or bad.
I think bad is more likely
Sorry yamato

Why do you think that?

Perhaps some of what I've done this game hasn't gone the way I intended it to, but hey, shit happens. What about the things I am doing make you think I'm bad? I think I have a good chunk of the game figured out already.
Writer@WriterYamato
yamato77
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
11589 Posts
February 07 2013 04:08 GMT
#422
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.

TOWN

Oats
Sloosh
VE
Mocsta
Jay
Prplhz
CC

NULL
Djo
Phagga

MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs

The only thing left to do in this game is lynch into/see more of the bottom five and figure out which one is the town player. Right now I'd pick Djo.

I didn't list these in any particular order, but my town reads are all fairly decent at the moment. It would take a lot for me to change them.
Writer@WriterYamato
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