EPTHe gets it. Thank God.
Nomination Mafia - Page 14
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yamato77
11589 Posts
He gets it. Thank God. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Tomorrow I want to look hard at CC, as I said earlier. The last mafia, as Phagga said, is one of Debears/Oats, but I'm not sure which. My gut says debears, and that's exactly what I've been operating under today. I won't be around for the deadline but afterward and most of the next few days I will be here making cases and such. See you guys on the flip side. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I asked Prom for feedback after I posted it. No one helped me catch mafia. I got advice on how not to be a terrible tunneling, scummy looking townie for once. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 23 2013 11:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I still think that Snarfs bus was the best move ever. What else was I supposed to do  That was a beautiful move, and it had everyone in the thread fooled. The one mistake I caught you on during day 2 was your wishy-washy read flip-flop on me. Everything else until the last day was really solid stuff from you. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On February 23 2013 11:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato good job pushing it through man. You'd have SHIT if we got Oats to vote with us FTW though XD I was afraid Oats might do something silly. On that note, Oats, I want to say that I tried really hard to be nice to you this game but sometimes you frustrate me. The fact that the towniest part of your play was the first half of day 1 is a little saddening. If it weren't for that, I don't think I could have accurately identified you at all. You're very unreadable later in the game. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
So if I take the idea seriously that mafia bussed the fuck out of Snarfs, even early on, then I have to reconsider another player in this game besides just VE: Cheesecake Why? Because his claim to town is the same as VE's, but when you look at what happened day 3 with a fresh pair of eyes, you see just what Cheesecake was doing, and why he was doing it. Fuck all the nomination WIFOM. Fuck all the association bullshit. What is CC doing, and why is he doing it? First, I want to look at day 1, and go through a similar process as I did with VE. Who did CC want to lynch, and why? On February 08 2013 04:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Fuck it, YOLO ##vote: jiexian I dont see it going any other way. Everyone is yelling die scum die. Before this post, he had made a case on JX, but no vote went with it. He was talking about his read on Snarfs/Djo, with more emphasis on Djo. But aside from what he was writing, what was he doing? Not much. This post, however, is indicative of a mindset, and it is the exact same mindset I nailed VE with, and that is one of following town. CC, similarly to VE, didn't take any real stances with his vote or activity day 1. His vote he puts on JX amid town's push toward lynch him, and there it stayed. Why would he do this, if he's town? He talked about other reads, why isn't he making more of an effort to get them lynched? It's a mafia mentality. And I find it pervasive throughout his filter. On February 08 2013 04:25 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Indeed it is. We're lynching JX today with anyway with or without my vote . Who the heck are you gonna vote prphlz? Here he admits to looking scummy after prplhz attacks him for that vote post. Since when does town CC do this at all? No, as he said before, town CC is much more likely to start arguing with someone when accused, even if he's wrong. But mafia CC? He's just trying to blend into the townies who want to lynch JX, so he won't create any waves. He does this again, day 3 when someone calls him mafia for a good reason: On February 13 2013 01:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ^ Nah Oats, I'm the scummy dude here trying to derail this VE lynch and switching my meta based read on Yamato like a boss. Choo choo! That's about all he did of note Day 1. Most of it was general talk about his reads, etc, but note where his vote was and where it stayed, and how little time he spent justifying that read, as opposed to how much time he spent talking about other reads. On February 12 2013 01:40 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato Because Jay said that Palmar said so I haven't really given a serious look at Yamato until today. I initially wrote him off, because he was the towniest Yamato I've ever seen. In our history, he was always flaming with bias and emotionally posting. He drove the JX lynch home, but it was more lazy posting instead of emotional. This game he is more level-headed, and I just kinda threw a 'leaning town' stamp on him and let it be. Palmar apparently was going for something with Yamato, and Jay just reiterated it. I still think it is bad how Jay went after Yamato like that, but I have to consider that maybe he / Palmar are right. I'm filter diving and coming to my own conclusions on Yamato. On Jay's points: Yamato's flip-flop on Mocsta From Jay's case, I found it hard to get the grip on this point (he was basically summarizing). The first two pages on his filter are anti-Mocsta and then suddenly out of nowhere is: His Mocsta alignment case wasn't getting any traction, so he switches base. This IS a bit odd. Especially for Yamato. The Yamato I know was always ridden with tunneling and never let up. Conceding his position is, from what I'd consider, unlikely for town Yamato. Also, this is bad reasoning for a town Mocsta from him: Both alignments respond to cases. A matter of effort is not alignment indicative. JX Vote Where was JX before in Yamato's thinking? I completely missed this tbh. Not much to say about it other than lolwut. List post: Lists are scummy brah. I have no idea why he thinks I'm town: We've barely even talked. I think our interactions are null at this stage? I don't recall him taking a look at me. Why is he writing me off as town? I'm less concerned about his scumreads, because those conclusions can come from either alignment. I just don't know why certain people have earned the Yamato green stamp of approval. Prphlz town read: Mainly a meta case and two quotes saying that he's pro town. Why doesn't Yamato think he can be mafia faking this sentiment? Eeerrrr it's such an easy thing to just slap this town label on someone and never rethink it. The only time I played scum was with Debears, and he did this stuff to me all the time. Beefed up my townie image by defending me and saying I was pro-town because 'insert midly townish post here'. It may be the same case here. Yamato Today Even if Snarfs fits that bill, this is a shitty reason to be voting people alone. I don't agree that we should be looking mainly at activity from the nomination lynch. It's like a cop-out on forming decent reads... Also, he just calls me blendy and null reads me when I ask him to look into me. Seriously, I give him a GOLDEN opportunity to get some information about me, which I will respond to. He just null reads like a boss. Why doesn't he want to snuggle up with me and get to know each other? Town Yamato loves to interact / cuddle with me. Scum Yamato is afraid because he knows I'll call him out on his BS. I'd consider lynching Yamato today. My gut tells me to go all wagon of justice lynch Snarfs mode. Unfortunately he's another fucking lurker right now. I need to hear more than 'Oh I'm going to be doing family things! Lynch VE bro's, here are some scummers that are a good choice. Luckily I have alllll day to question him. That is, if he'll respond. @Snarfs Hey Snarfs, Snarfypoo. Can I call you Snarfypoo? You know, you're playing this Mafia game right now and it would be really cool if you did things. Two things: Why shouldn't I lynch you right now? and Top scumreads, minus VE. I know your stance on him. Give reasoning. Be cool and awesome like that. This is fucking mafia posting here folks. Earlier in the game, and even early in day 3, CC had said that I looked town, "the towniest" Yamato ever, he said. So how did that suddenly become scummy? It's bullshit, that's how. Town built up a good wagon on me and CC decided he'd set himself up to vote me, despite the fact that he'd been arguing over the SAME READ that jay had just a few posts in his filter before this one. It's absurd how much this guy just wants to blend into town. On February 12 2013 02:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Nope, lazy. First quote: What's wrong with what VE did there? He expresses he wants to talk with nomination candidates about the lynch tomorrow (and today). Is that a mafia agenda? What is odd is that he disagrees with Phagga, but provides no reasoning. That actually brings up a good point. Why DOES he disagree... he has never explained it. I want to know this. Second quote: The joke was a joke... indicative by the heart at the end. Ehh. Seemed pretty light-hearted to me. But that Phagga stuff again. Prove he's not lynch-worthy VE. Third quote: You focus on VE being a good player, but he's not showing that here. I've never played with VE before, so I can't testify to his epicness. I've never even heard of him being that good. The only thing that redeems him is he did take a look at Prphlz who was not a lynch candidate. He did focus a lot on the nomination lynch... Final quote: His job as town is to prove the innocence of Phagga if he thinks he is innocent. He doesn't do this. Good point. VE seems really trolly / nonchalant overall. His filter lacks scumreads and is more joking around than anything. Pushing a mafia agenda? It's iffy. Mafia motivation comes in defending Phagga without reason. The little participation go either way. At least he did push Prphlz. Stuff not related to you SlOosh: VE said he was going to look into me but never did. Then, he just coped out and said 'oh no, im not interested in lynching you, you're good don't worry about it' <---- I fucking hate when people null me like that. He doesn't seem to really care about what other people think about him. Kinda a townie trait to me; at least that's how I'm as town. He's not overly concerned with defending himself which I this is townie as well. So VE: Why do you disagree with a Phagga lynch? More specifically why did you WAIT until today to talk about it. Palmar was right there to discuss. In fact, why did you want to lynch the guy who was so anti-Phagga? Wouldn't you want to discuss it with him? Overall: I'm a bit see-sawy on him. All flip-floppy and such. I like some things, but hate that he voted for SlOosh when he disagreed with his Phagga case without disputing it. We'll see with what he comes out with today. Here is another theme I want to point out in CC's filter. and the only hard stance he's taken this whole game: Snarfs vs. VE. If these are two mafia players, as I suspect, then CC has only ever cared to make sure one got lynched over the other. Why? I can't say for sure, but it's very odd, and there are many posts in his filter from day 3 talking about lynching Snarfs over lynching VE. He argues VE's towniness a few times, On February 13 2013 07:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Snarfs is by far the better lynch today -.- This VE thing reeks of scum and came about so quickly. "VE has done alot of scummy things" "He is being soft defended" Nice reasons. Now lynch snarfs plz. He is indisputably scum. More proof of the phenomena I want to point out. On February 13 2013 07:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Just lynch Snarfs. I'll give my left nut if he flips town. If he does, you guys can systematically lynch VE and myself the following non-nomination days and win the game. Seriously, holy shit. This is an interesting idea, no? It's a pretty safe bet that Snarfs will flip mafia if he's your scumbuddy, no? It also strengthens the association I want to build between CC and VE, which is more obvious to me now than then. On February 13 2013 07:47 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: SlOosh, thanks for being open. Look at the VE wagon - how many scummy people are on it? Why won't the entire scum team be on the Snarfs wagon to push this mislynch? It makes no sense. Scum are on this VE wagon, which was initially propelled by you, and are sheeping the crap out of it. On February 13 2013 07:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: If you're town and on the VE wagon, I suggest switching over right the hell now. There is no way Snarfs flips town. If he does, well, I guess town has easy scum lynches ahead of them don't they? You lynch VE, he flips town, and town is left with deciding who is scum amongst everyone on the VE wagon. You lynch Snarfs, he flips town, town knows exactly who to lynch. If VE flips town we are absolutely fucked. Snarfs will flip red, and Gee-fucking-gee man. More examples and evidence of the mindsets he is guilty of that day. What I am coming to is this: When did CC start TRULY pushing for Snarf's lynch? After the wagon on me died and Sloosh made his move to kill VE. Why? Before that point, he was perfectly happy to listen to players he DIDN'T think were town call ME mafia, even though he thought I looked townie. But now he's so against lynching VE, who is being pushed by Sloosh? It doesn't make any sense. He never really offers up any strong analysis of why VE is town, he simply calls the wagon on him "scummy" and yells at us to lynch Snarfs. The Snarfs lynch was designed by mafia to give VE town cred and strengthen people's reads on CC. Before it became apparent that VE was going to die if mafia did nothing to stop it, CC was content with me being the vote leader, and he did nothing to push his case on Snarfs despite his vote sitting on him. On February 13 2013 07:11 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: been voting snarfs all day. /thread. Jay just bus your scumbuddy Snarfs already. He's obviously thought about what it means to have his vote on Snarfs in this manner, and left it there intentionally, even though the push to lynch him didn't come until late in the day. But the most damning thing to me today is how resistant he is to the idea of VE being mafia. Why is it so hard for him to see it? I don't quite understand. Obviously this relies on VE actually being mafia, but as I've said today, I'm fairly certain. While bits and pieces of this case are associations with VE, what the important thing to note here is how he played day 1, and what he was going to do day 3 had VE not become the focus. Today, we'll see what CC has in store for us. Right now, I'm apt to believe he's actually the second of the three mafia we've been looking for this game. The scum team proposed yesterday, and the one I talked about today, no longer applies. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Sloosh got the gist of my VE case in three points, here: On February 20 2013 16:47 slOosh wrote: Finished rereading. I fully endorse this position and will be willing to vote into any one of these 3 players. So town team of me, CC, yamato, Oats & jay - so at this point it's just convincing you guys that we are town and have to consolidate on them. If me flipping town today helps Oats see better, than I'm fine with that. Oats: I'm going to do this two ways. One is why I'm probably town, and one is why VE is probably scum. D1: I am voted with Mocsta and Palmar. Mocsta is pretty much established town. Palmar has a great reputation as a town player. Why would I put myself up as scum? How could I have known that Palmar would be sick all day? Because if Palmar chose to start contributing, then I would surely be dead. With yamato's case, the issue at hand is that VE is claiming that he is town because of his pushing Snarfs, when in reality, he wasn't really pushing Snarfs, but just pretending to do so. That is what yamato is pointing out. Pushing town over scum isn't the point - pushing town over scum while claiming to be pushing the scum the whole time as justification of his towniness is the issue. If you consequently observe VE's filter, there are 3 things that categorize his play. 1) Setup talk, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing 2) Focus on lurkers, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing 3) Hunting the "least useful" townie on even days, which is an easy way for scum to look like they are contributing When does VE try to push a scum lynch? You may think Snarfs, but as yamato shows, he really doesn't. VE has been pushing lurkers and least useful townies and that is all that he is interested in. He isn't truly scumhunting. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
It seemed like a pivotal moment day 3, to me. What was your decision making process there? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
What really irked me about your play this game was how bland everything you wrote was. Town VE is insane. You need to capture that in your scum play to truly ascend to greatness. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
What's good about this setup is that it forces mafia to play proactively, as GMarshal said, because if you sit back for even a minute and town develops some cohesion, you can quickly lose the game. This is what I feel happened at the end of the game, I managed to get my shit together for long enough to rally town around me, and had some decent reads to go along with it. This easily could have been Palmar or Sloosh had they had more time, but the fact remains that mafia had to be ahead of the curve so to speak, instead of reactionary. Another good point about the setup is that it forces town to truly scumhunt. There's no real way of confirming town in this setup, and there's no mechanic to rely on but your own ability to analyse the play of others, and that is where I managed to do well in this game. This, I feel, is the essence of real town play, and what I loved about playing in the game. There was nothing for me to worry about except for getting people's alignments correct, which I did over the long course of this game. The bad thing for mafia about the setup, as was mentioned, was how long the game really was. Phagga, for instance, was a REALLY EASY mislynch for most of the game, but there at the end he put in some more effort and I saw the town in him, which was a big thing in the game. Because of the length of the game, it is significantly more difficult to keep up appearances, and it does give scummy-looking townies time to shape up. Also, the wealth of information I had to draw from in MYLO was huge, because of how long the game had gone on. The time also hurts town somewhat, as there are some townies like Oats who only looked worse as the game went on. The worst thing for town with the setup, though, was the dawn phase, as anything done there could ONLY have helped mafia. Shortening or eliminating it might have helped the game be slightly more active and solved some of those problems. As for town's overall play, I would definitely say that I had a difficult time getting a solid town read on some of you. Without meta, I think I would never have been able to figure out Oats, Jay, or Prplhz. Phagga, as I said, shaped up a lot at the end, but for most of the game he was quite easily mislynched. Sloosh and Palmar apparently had real time constraints early on, so while that hurt my early game, I think if both of them had lived I would have put Palmar with Sloosh as town in my reads. Mocsta played well throughout the game, no complaints there, his lynch D4 was bad but it was a product of the bus that happened the day before, heh. Mafia's overall play was quite good. Snarfs played alright day 1, and if he had continued to seem interested in hunting mafia, I probably would not have been able to read him correctly. Djo was bad from the start, but debears played very well when he replaced in aside from his hard-defense of VE. VE's overall game was quite good D2-4, but I caught him mainly on what he did day 1, which Marv commented on as the worst day of his play. Cheesecake played a decent scum game, but what I felt lacking from his play is a certain amount loudness that I associate with town CC that tipped me off to him early D3. He might have been able to win the game for mafia had he not been so non-committal about VE at MYLO and just lynched him. It was that indecisiveness that really clued me in to his alignment and had me filter-diving him for the case I posted here earlier. As for my own play, I feel like it was very average. D1, as mentioned, I was completely wrong, and I was feeling quite good about the game. JX's flip to me was a small surprise, but I see now that I was quite wrong and tunneled at the time, so I realize my mistake there. D2 I had to know Palmar's alignment, because it would have bothered me for a while. D3 was the worst day for me in the game, and I had a noticeable lack of effort for a while after I managed to convince town I wasn't mafia. I do think VE's decision to call me town and not reaffirm people's suspicions was something that was unnecessary, but it did fool me, so what do I know. D4 I barely read. My case on Mocsta was bad, and full of conspiracy theories, but his flip made me rethink the game a Bit. D5 should not have happened, and after Prplhz flipped town I immediately realized my mistake, and that's really where I gained the motivation to finish out the game. From D6 onwards the game came really easily to me and I was able to pick apart the team due to the bad parts of their play, which was largely day 1. Overall, I struggled finding time to play at some parts, and at others I really just didn't feel all that motivated. I feel like it was dumb luck that I managed to figure the game out, but I can't deny I truly had a rush of exhilaration when I made that case on VE. This was the most fun mafia game I've played to date, and also the one I feel like I did the best in. I will definitely be joining the next iteration of Nomination Mafia, and hopefully by then it won't take me six ingame days to figure the game out. heh. | ||
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