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Vivax
22407 Posts
On January 24 2013 06:54 FiveTouch wrote: The fact he plays nothing like this as town is a good one. You know, the lack of suspicion/aggression that I mention in the very post you're replying to, if you're able to read. And you see him posting such a defence of a now town JX? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2013 06:55 Vivax wrote: And you see him posting such a defence of a now town JX? Posting a defense at an odd time, or defending someone on odd grounds, is not an uncommon thing for scum to get caught for. | ||
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Vivax
22407 Posts
Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 24 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote: Why would mafia do that at that point? Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. It's not dogmatic, it's true. Mafia defend townies all the time for silly or non-existent reasons. Anyway, why did Oats do it? In his own words: On January 23 2013 10:22 Oatsmaster wrote: I feel like I started off the game pretty badly and I kinda felt like I had to wait for things to happen and forced the JX thing to look useful cause if I am suspected as town, it wastes everyone's time. Too bad it happened anyway. HOWEVER, once the thread started going, I could actually interact with people to determine intentions and alignment and reply to people who were questioning me. I am starting to feel more comfortable and confident about my play this game. He forced it to look useful. What alignment forces things to look useful? I wonder. | ||
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
I agree with you that Oats has said plenty of things that make him look scummy, and perhaps my defense of him is unwarranted and similar to sandro's defense of prplhz. I just have a feeling he's not scum on the basis of some of the things I saw him do that prplhz did not. We'll see what he flips if that's truly the road we're going to go down today. Chezinu what do you think of an Oats lynch? If you can I'd also like to hear your thoughts on both gonzaw and annul. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote: I can't remember everyone I've noticed it on, but I know for SURE it was what I noticed about Node in Liquid City. I think there have been other recent times where looking for that, specifically, found mafia (although not 100%). Why would mafia do that at that point? Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. Mafia do it because they see an attack on someone they know to be town. Maybe it's a weak attack, maybe strong, whatever. You both inherently know the person is town AND you know that you want some cred throughout the game, so maybe you post a defense. Except you're coming from the land of "I know that person is not scum and is being wrongly attacked" rather than "I don't think that guy is scum/those are legitimate points against him," and so your posts defending a guy may be markedly different than what a townie would post in the same situation. It's just...you're coming from that different angle, driven by a slightly different force, so you may just post a defense that looks out of place. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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debears
United States2516 Posts
On January 24 2013 04:51 gonzaw wrote: You might want to reread my mayor campaign. I wanted D1 to run "smoothly as normal", and if people thought I was a good mayor candidate by mid-late D1 then it'd be great if they voted me. I was also absent/sleeping for much part of Five "rising to power". When I woke up one day Five already had like 5-6 votes and I had none, I obviously wasn't becoming mayor by that point and he was. sandro is sandro. When town he does big plays as early as possible, he tries to "bully the setup", break the game, and have town win as early as possible. You can't obviously compare him with prplhz. Yes I did. I don't think it matters anyways, since I believe Oats to be scum. Lol this actually reminds me of Aperture Mafia 2. I was on scum's tail all D1 (JingleHell), but made some "wishy washy" comments about the current lynched scum (iamp). I got flak for it the whole game and basically forced me to claim, when I was right all along lol. Funny how it's likely to be happening this game as well  You don't seem to be familiar with my play. When I "try to convince my target he is scum", I'm obviously not doing that. What I'm doing is: -If somehow that guy is town, point out the scummy things he's doing, and how they come from a mafia perspective. If he's town, hopefully this will make him realize what he's doing and change his play accordingly, so he doesn't get misslynched -I want the guy to know why he's scummy, this way he has no way to hide. If he keeps acting like he is doing after I mention that, then it means he acknowledged what I said but didn't care about it. That is a strong indication of mafia for me (or at points, depending on his play, maybe a townie), depending on his reactions. -If the guy is scum, then it also kills 2 birds with 1 stone by showing other people why he's scum. Gonz, could you post a few examples from your town games where you have this sort of posting style toward your hard scumreads? I don't want to look through filters since I don't know exactly what games you had a hard scumread. And you should be able to come up with one or two examples since it should be part of your standard town play | ||
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Vivax
22407 Posts
This game just proves it again. But keep talking smack about me. Who laughs last laughs best. I actually like Oats response when he said he felt forced. It's honest. He didn't try to find a shit reason or become overly emotional, he simply said what's up with him writing that. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:04 FiveTouch wrote: Oh yeah, was directing that at vivax trying to get him to be vivax and not this.Right, austin. And in this case it was attacking the non-existent bandwagon, and saying that we shouldn't 'vilify' him so quickly. As is evidenced by my opening post in the thread, it's what jumped out at me immediately. I didn't like that point enough early on because i disagreed with the contradiction concerning lurkers/his mayoral vote. Disagreeing with that point is what we discussed most heavily, when the odd defense is something I normally jump on, but just got pushed to the background here. I'm on board with scumoats, although I'd like to read over everything that's been said about him today for another time. | ||
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DearestSnot
Germany200 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:06 Vivax wrote: Bugs, you are bad. I was/am observing one of your games, and I know I'm better than you at making reads just cause of that. Given how much experience you have on your shoulders compared to me, you should be ashamed of that. This game just proves it again. But keep talking smack about me. Who laughs last laughs best. I actually like Oats response when he said he felt forced. It's honest. He didn't try to find a shit reason or become overly emotional, he simply said what's up with him writing that. okay, I'll bite. What's your goal with this shit you're pulling? To antagonize me? Do you think I actually care what you think about my play? My interest lies in finding scum, and if I am wrong about a read, so be it. I will accept that and try to improve. You have been wrong at least twice this game (provably) and given your current reads, I'm willing to bet that you are probably wrong about almost all of them, too. You seem to ignore the fact that I pushed prplhz yesterday. That's fine with me, I don't particularly have a problem with that, given that I am not known for catching scum very often. Maybe I was even lucky with prplhz. Whatever. However, be honest with yourself. I am pretty sure you are town, but your attitude right now is really destructive and annoying. You're not accomplishing anything but being a nuisance. You are arrogant despite having been wrong this game. Why? What does this kind of attitude actually accomplish? I used to be pretty confident in my earlier games. I probably even played better then, for various differing reasons, some of which I'm not even sure about anymore. Perhaps I'm a bit burnt out on the game now and I need to take a break, but my interest is not in what other players think about my playstyle, nor my results. All I care about is playing the game, enjoying it, and improving it, and I get frustrated when these goals cannot be met, either for my own reasons or because of things (like lurkers) that frustrate me to no end. You simply seem mad for no particularly good reason at all. | ||
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debears
United States2516 Posts
The dude lost his head, regardless of alignment Also, I am going to wait til about 12 KST to see what oats posts. If I don't find it satisfactory, I have a read that would almost certainly make him scum in my eyes. | ||
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Vivax
22407 Posts
If you don't like things I write and aren't directed at you, then simply ignore them. But if you start telling others to ignore them and that I'm full of shit etc. etc. , then you take away pressure from scum and allow them to do the same to me. I'm an aggressive player, aggressive in a way that I bite and don't let go of players, I bombard them with questions that require precise answers. I play with this style to force reads, commitments and quick decisions that can cause scumslips or mis-decisions to happen for scum. This style isn't seen as nice by most people cause it pisses off townies, but damn I'm sure it's effective. It's most effective when people help me creating that pressure, then I move to the next player I see as scummy and start over again. It's useless when people start ignoring me and paint me as stupid troll. Look, I think you are town, we both believe Oats is town, so don't let the lynch go that way cause there are people with good reputation saying so. Trust yourself on this one. Trust me for once, just this time, I only ask for one time, look at gonzaw, look at him long and hard and from the start please. Look at him feeling super confident that he might be scum, and give town your final verdict. When you did that, look at Oats and what he wrote about gonzaw. If you get to the same conclusions I got to, you will see where I come from with my other reads. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:26 Vivax wrote: [b]Trust me for once, just this time, I only ask for one time, look at gonzaw, look at him long and hard and from the start please. Look at him feeling super confident that he might be scum, and give town your final verdict. This is quite simply the worst advice I have ever heard. Can you name previous instances where this 'style' of yours outed mafia and you got them lynched? Once will do. All I see so far is you tunnelling flipped townies. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
 WhO asked about my reads)Currently I think annul is a good lynch. I think What'S been SaiD speaks for itself and his refusal to do anything speaks for his guilt. The other two people I' M Really eyeing are debears and Vivax. There is a post in dibbers I made last night that sums up What I think of him pretty well. But basically he promised a case on djo, Never delivered and has mostly talked policy since. Since he'S a BG though to  Push a lynch on him today would be dumb since if I'M wrong WE  just Lost a bg over a Bad read and it isn't sure enough for me to justify that. Vivax I' M Really unsure of. His case on Yamato is Really weak and a cursory glance through his filter in the last large game he played showed a higher level of logic in his reads compared to this game where he is more confrontational with people who disagree instead of logical.I had a post with more detailed reasoning typed up but my girlfriend called and I forgot yo submit it before I went up work so I'll have to post that at like 9-11 est when I get off. In terms of suspicion of I'd say currently debears, vivax, annul. Debears isn't really an option and vivax is actually posting so him living to read a bit longer is much more productive than annul. If annul isn't the target today I'll be pushing for vivax. Sorry for the TLPD stuff. Phone posting so it's hard to fix. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:39 Stutters695 wrote: @bugs (I think it was you WhO asked about my reads)Currently I think annul is a good lynch. I think What'S been SaiD speaks for itself and his refusal to do anything speaks for his guilt. The other two people I' M Really eyeing are debears and Vivax. There is a post in dibbers I made last night that sums up What I think of him pretty well. But basically he promised a case on djo, Never delivered and has mostly talked policy since. Since he'S a BG though to Push a lynch on him today would be dumb since if I'M wrong WE just Lost a bg over a Bad read and it isn't sure enough for me to justify that. Vivax I' M Really unsure of. His case on Yamato is Really weak and a cursory glance through his filter in the last large game he played showed a higher level of logic in his reads compared to this game where he is more confrontational with people who disagree instead of logical.I had a post with more detailed reasoning typed up but my girlfriend called and I forgot yo submit it before I went up work so I'll have to post that at like 9-11 est when I get off. In terms of suspicion of I'd say currently debears, vivax, annul. Debears isn't really an option and vivax is actually posting so him living to read a bit longer is much more productive than annul. If annul isn't the target today I'll be pushing for vivax. Sorry for the TLPD stuff. Phone posting so it's hard to fix. The problem with all this is that you're posting in your own little world, with no attachment to what's going on in the thread at all. You say you're going to 'push' something, but that seems unlikely. My notes from Day 1 tell me you didn't once mention either prplhz or Oatsmaster, and this remains the case with Oatsmaster through today. It's quite concerning. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:05 debears wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:51 gonzaw wrote: You might want to reread my mayor campaign. I wanted D1 to run "smoothly as normal", and if people thought I was a good mayor candidate by mid-late D1 then it'd be great if they voted me. I was also absent/sleeping for much part of Five "rising to power". When I woke up one day Five already had like 5-6 votes and I had none, I obviously wasn't becoming mayor by that point and he was. sandro is sandro. When town he does big plays as early as possible, he tries to "bully the setup", break the game, and have town win as early as possible. You can't obviously compare him with prplhz. Yes I did. I don't think it matters anyways, since I believe Oats to be scum. Lol this actually reminds me of Aperture Mafia 2. I was on scum's tail all D1 (JingleHell), but made some "wishy washy" comments about the current lynched scum (iamp). I got flak for it the whole game and basically forced me to claim, when I was right all along lol. Funny how it's likely to be happening this game as well You don't seem to be familiar with my play. When I "try to convince my target he is scum", I'm obviously not doing that. What I'm doing is: -If somehow that guy is town, point out the scummy things he's doing, and how they come from a mafia perspective. If he's town, hopefully this will make him realize what he's doing and change his play accordingly, so he doesn't get misslynched -I want the guy to know why he's scummy, this way he has no way to hide. If he keeps acting like he is doing after I mention that, then it means he acknowledged what I said but didn't care about it. That is a strong indication of mafia for me (or at points, depending on his play, maybe a townie), depending on his reactions. -If the guy is scum, then it also kills 2 birds with 1 stone by showing other people why he's scum. Gonz, could you post a few examples from your town games where you have this sort of posting style toward your hard scumreads? I don't want to look through filters since I don't know exactly what games you had a hard scumread. And you should be able to come up with one or two examples since it should be part of your standard town play Here are my filters if you wanna check out. I think I do that with Jingle in Aperture 2, maybe Mattchew on Can't Believe, but other than that I don't remember much. Aperture 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&user=237527 Can't Believe: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=237527 | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
Broodking turned up at the last minute to avoid the modkill, and then interestingly completely failed to mention me when assession mayoral candidates: On January 22 2013 10:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: Based on a filter read of the top canidates I liked austin the best. I think he is a person most people would listen too, Toad/Chez/and yourself [note: gonzaw] are just too controversial. This is followed by posting a couple of half-arse reads and then departing the thread again, not to be seen. It basically looks like Broodking is doing the bare minimum to keep himself alive, and to look like he's doing something. I think there's a pretty good chance he is mafia. | ||
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Vivax
22407 Posts
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