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On January 24 2013 02:07 Vivax wrote:
The huge CAPSLOCK parts you put in there also suggest you wanted to achieve some show/omg-effect by pointing out various things like that.
But you seem to not be too convinced yourself by these oh so thrilling revelations since you don't want to lynch him before annul.
Really bad acting there.
You love delving into semantics dont you? Did you consider, CAPS LOCK is a lazy way to bold
Anyways, i dont understand what your problem is? I was firm on Oatsmaster before reviewing Annul; I dislike Annul but we can only lynch one person a day. I still rate oatsmaster higher than Annul, so wheres the communication breakdown?
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On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:04 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:19 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:14 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:13 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2013 01:08 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 00:58 FiveTouch wrote:
[quote]
The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it:
[quote]
Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite?
I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? well you're still alive, right? The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not.
That sounds very reasonable to me. Nicely thought out conclusion, agree fully.
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On January 24 2013 08:58 DearestSnot wrote:
stop assuming things about the number of mafia masons, the number is unclear according to the language in the OP.
I was about to say the exact same thing. Ninja'd 
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On January 24 2013 09:05 Chezinu wrote:
5touch if you did get the logs, you should totally read my thread. There is a special number there. Its in bold.
On January 22 2013 06:40 Chezinu wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 06:32 austinmcc wrote:On January 22 2013 06:28 Vivax wrote:
It's simple austin, cause I don't trust you. I'd rather have a troll have the seat than someone who might be scum. Alright, but you became remarkably inconsistent. #4, its important. 
Chezinu.. I like this game 
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On January 24 2013 10:39 DearestSnot wrote:
Also on a somewhat related note, he has received next to no suspicion all game. prplhz and Chez attacked each other but beyond that I don't recall anyone calling out Chezinu for trolling or anything of the sort. That's pretty strange, given that he's usually mafia bait.
On January 21 2013 08:08 Mocsta wrote:
I agree on chezinu. He needs to input more to the thread. I was expecting a lot more from him considering the reputation and kneepad job debears gave.
On January 23 2013 17:38 Mocsta wrote:
Toad/WBG
But to promote some discussion, what do you make of the (lack of) activity from Chezinu?
I know that is has been discussed as *very* unreadable, but we are now ~8hrs into Day2, and he is on a 2page filter. Is that normal for him? Especially considering he campaigned for mayor?
LOl, was even addressed to you
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On January 24 2013 11:05 DearestSnot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 10:56 debears wrote:On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote:
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. Mafia can't target the mayor and sheriff until the night after all town bodyguards are dead correct?> I don't know how it works, actually. I simply assumed that if the BGs are dead then you can shoot the mayor/sheriff (even on the same night)
Yeah, I figured if 1 BG is scum.. mafia need 1 Kp on the town bg, and then can use remaining KP on mayor or sheriff during the same night cycle.
Either way this Day2 lynch is 1 vote.. so i see the logic in not touching the bodyguards.. if there is ony 1 town BG, and we lynch him my accident.. there is no more protection... So even though Oats is my top read, the associated risk is too high.
I think best plan is to find an alternative target, whether Annul, BKE etc etc and reduce the mafia to 3 ppl.. they still will have 2 KP tonight.. BUT!!... if we lynch scum with the double vote Day3, we drop their Night 3 KP to 1... so can afford to use a double vote on a BG (i.e. Oats)
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WBG
who would you prefer I have a look into.
BKE or Gonzaw?
Annual seems to have points for/points against, so there seems to be a hesitance in general.
P.S. The shit-flinging one-track tunnel nature of Vivax over the past 24hrs.. that how I associate Oatsmaster play when he is town. He was doing the same thing.. just hitting up anyone that had an opposite thought.. Very stark contrast now... but yes i agree with the BG rational and think we should leave him today.
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So read through BKE..
damn that was short. I think the host might have more posts than him... lol
I compared the way BKE/Clarity handled their almost modkill activity levels
(1) BKE
On January 22 2013 09:57 BroodKingEXE wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:56 DearestSnot wrote:On January 22 2013 09:54 BroodKingEXE wrote:
My bad guys something came up, so I had to take care of it
Vote:BroodKingEXE since I have no clue what is going on. fuck you too and all the lurkers as well jesus why do you guys sign up for these games? EVERY GAME I see you, you do this. I'm doing you guys a favour, Modkills are way worse.
(2) Clarity
On January 24 2013 10:59 Clarity_nl wrote:
As far as I'm aware I have not been replaced yet, I apologize to everyone in this game.
Had some irl trouble and I'm currently not willing to read 70 pages of mafia so I hope I get replaced soon. If I somehow missed it... errr, sorry for that too.
Have fun all.
Even though this was posted after modkill the apology feels genuine... contrast this to BKE who just says "ohh guys my bad" thats an "I dont give a fuck" attitude.
Now of course, being only IDAF does not imply scum... but it is typically scum who have these attitudes.
Lets see if he vindicates this attitude in his subsequent posts.
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On January 22 2013 10:01 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Based on a filter read of the top canidates I liked austin the best. I think he is a person most people would listen too, Toad/Chez/and yourself are just too controversial.
Comments on his preferred candidates... FT was already a strong contender at this point in time is not mentioned.
Contrast this to when prplhz is confirmed scum due to lynch.
On January 22 2013 10:13 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Nice job FT.
Its just a token acknowledge.. no excitement or care.. again more IDAF attitude
- Then there is his contribution to scum hunting.
On January 22 2013 17:12 BroodKingEXE wrote:As of my reads now I see Vivax and Annul as scum. Vivax: I see mayor post as null in itself, but his follow up was quite strange. It never seemed as if he wanted to take the position, and his scumhunting (possibly to give him credibility in the election) was very forced. If you read the questions that he asked they are basically the same questions that he asks to each person. Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 20:26 Vivax wrote:
Allow me to correct: Toad should consolidate, Axle should just learn to format his posts properly. Gonzaw is also one of those able to produce hurricanes of text.
mkfuba07 /confirm'd but didn't post anything since Daypost. Other "lurkers" didn't /confirm at all.
@ mkfuba07
Why so silent?Who do you think is scum?Who would you elect?
@ Djodref
Hello Djodref.
You have been asking a lot of questions lately.
May I beg for you to answer mine first?
What do you think of JieXian?
Who would you vote for Mayor right now?
Any tentative scumreads?
This means that he wasn't looking for scum though their filters, but rather was trying to look like he was scumhunting by asking questions. The fact that he doesn't follow up on any of the questions is even more concerting, wouldn't a townie much less a mayoral candidate be more meticulous about his scumhunting? Letting questions drift into the abyss is something scum would do. Annul is more of a gut read for me. He is tunneling and acting pretty oblivious to things, which strikes me as scummy since he is a more experienced player.
I have a few problems with this... annul and vivax were already under scrutiny at this point in time (annul was even listed as Toad #1 or #2 scum target).. if you break the BKE content down.
Vivax is just a summary of his actions, there is no thought applied to disect motives; its purely a PBPA of his actions.
THen teh read on annul is purely "gut feeling" with nothing to substantiate.
Again more IDAF attitude.. im finding this repetitive behaviour now indicating scum. Especially due to the cases he brought forward... You could argue that even oats is trying harder than this to create links.
- Last post.. the vote
On January 24 2013 08:29 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Annul is obvscum, at the moment he isn't doing anything, but putting out weak scum reads and useless setup speculation. His posting style is that of a scum who knows he's in a bad spot. He says his D1 was non-existant, but I dont see a town directed change out of him.
##Vote: Annul
You could argue its a sheep vote; but then he has attempted to justify the vote which typically a sheep voter will NOT do... so if we treat this as a genuine vote, the reasoning again has no detailed insight, its just a summary of actions (like he did with Vivax)
More IDAF attitude.
Conclusion
BKE has an extremely low post count, but it is clearly evident he doesnt care about this game... The question is bored VT or scum.
It hink even a bored VT has incentive to provide insight on reads, or just sheep votes blatantly.
BKE does neither. When he does provide a reads, its just a Play by Play summary of actions; and when he votes, he provides very very weak justifications (again just actions).. This really does negate a bored VT attitude.
I am fully comfortable with BKE as my vote this game.
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WBG
im at work, so will look into Gonzaw & austinmcc prob when I get home, so like 10-12hrs time.
The reason im looking into austin is due to the theory of one vet being a mayor candidate.
I have to read gonzaw in detail but his posts about 5-6hours IIRC read genuine to me, I felt like it flowed and was the ramblings/musings of someone speaking their mind in haste... so without a detailed read i still get a townie vibe from him. So I think that leaves Austin??
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Austin
@ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=97#1922
I think your overcomplicating things, the posts read as I said.
Vivax was pushing me for commentary (IIRC multiple times) so I gave him my impressions off-the-cuff.
To you: Gonzaw, Annul and Toad may have been central to the thread and been your focus. But they weren’t to me. My focus has been mainly on Oats/Grush, and just keeping up with the thread in general.
I actually thought what I said about Vivax was solid.. i.e. usually if a guy is repeatedly pissing you off he is town.. scum generally cant afford to agitate people that much, survival is easier if you are forgotten. Im not sure why you seem to disagree with this?
As for your other comments,
Toad Don’t see how you are misinterpreting this? I find his fast-posting style coupled with direction he giving to be indicative of town. Everyone once in a while he says something that just makes me facepalm. So I am leaning town instead of probably town.. thought this was clear?
Gonzaw Again. Don’t see how you are misinterpreting? I like his flow when he writes. Gives me a good feeling without any analysis. I said NULL, because I need to do an analysis of the actions to confirm motivations. Gut feeling isn’t enough.
Your welcome to read my filter and ask me more questions, but I really think your over-reading this specific post. I even stated at the start of it that it would be off the cuff?
And I feel like your targeting me with this post because my priority filter reads do not align with yours. I don’t think that is indicative of alignment, its indicative of different experiences and thought processes.
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On January 24 2013 12:18 DearestSnot wrote:
The only player who has made any strong arguments for lynching Oats is FT. Everyone else is simply parroting and spouting nonsense about how they find him scummy when they probably don't even know what the case is to begin with.
The simple fact of the matter is this:
FT is dead if we lynch Oats or if Oats is scum. Either way.
The only way FT and Toad are safe is if we DO NOT lynch Oats. Just think about it.
Is it worth lynching a BG if we're going to lose a jailor and a triple voter for it? Is it worth lynching Oats, who COULD be scum, when we could lynch him at almost any point in the game?
What the hell is the hurry with lynching Oats? If he's town and he's alive, that's a huge benefit for us because he's a BG, he protects our mayor + sheriff and it forces scum to use suboptimal shots to kill them. They cannot take down core players of town without first going through him and debears.
If Oats is scum, in order to kill those players, they have to out Oats anyway!
I find it pretty stupid to lynch Oats today, given that if he is scum he either gets outted in the near future, or if he doesn't get outted, his teammates will die and then he has a snowball's chance in hell of winning anyway, since FT is a triple voter.
(1) I personally find it insulting what you just said. I am very aware of the reasons put forth by FT. I also think I genuinely added further contributions. Considering you did not input (even when asked) I am not surprised you throw me into the sheeping category.
(2) I dont know why your repeating this BG stuff over and over again. I already said I agree Austin already said we agree. This is verging on becoming spam now. The point you raised the first time, was raised really clearly and made me realise something I didtn think of prior. Repeating it over and over again isnt changing that fact.
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EBWOP;
On January 24 2013 12:28 Mocsta wrote:
(1) I personally find it insulting what you just said. I am very aware of the reasons put forth by FT. I also think I genuinely added further contributions. Considering you did not input (even when asked) I am *NOW*not surprised you throw me into the sheeping category.
.
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Agreed.. my main rational is.. if we lynch a BG and he is scum... scum still have 2KP (due to rounding up)
If we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town)
The risk isnt worth it.
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So because thread died, I decided to have a looksee @ Gonzaw. - Please share your thoughts.
TL;DR
I am confused. When he writes, I like what I read. It feels fluent and natural; I almost feel like its written in my style, so I can associate to that and hence, want to like him.
The problem is.. his actions aren’t matching to the words.
On January 20 2013 13:58 gonzaw wrote:
My candidacy is based on these 2 things:
1)I'll try to establish my innocence as much as I can
2)I'll try my best to hunt scum today, and everyday from now on
That's it.
After reading his 6 pages of filter, I have noticed a distinct drop in scum hunting since FiveTouch came into the scene.
Most of his ramblings are thread status quo related, and his case on continuous read Oats originates after Oats pressures him.
There is also the major problem of “kind of saw this coming to be honest” in regards to the NKs. This is just plain odd and has not been addressed satisfactorily (see spoiler for more)
So in short, He left a great first impression with me, but is now not living up to the promises he made.
I have stronger reads in BKE/Oats though, so I will pen Gonzaw in as:
I think he is leaning towards scum.
- P.S. Gonzaw references being a decent read of Chezinu. I would like Gonzaw take on Chezinu this game, and specifically Chezinu vote-swapping for Mayor at the end (swapped from Austin > BKE -> Gonzaw)
Analysis
+ Show Spoiler +This is my general thoughts as I went through the 6 pages of filter. Its barely edited (sorry ) (1) I like his mayor campaign. Points I agree with. I dont think its straight forward to input this, otherwise, all the other candidates would have as well! (2) I like his Day1 questions. They are prods and I think are written to promote discussion. I am taking this as effective scum hunting due to nature of early Day1. (3) Interestingly enough.. gonzaw says he can understand Chez http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=15#297 I would very keen to hear Gonzaw insight on Chezinu currently!(4) Once FT comes into the thread, Gonzaw starts to spam his random thoughts. This is weird, especially because prplhz was around; and there were also others around (e.g. Toad etc) (5) He disagrees with the prplhz lynch, but its more just hey im not convinced. its not a hard defense This is reenforced when to me he says On January 21 2013 13:51 gonzaw wrote:
Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. (6) Asks FT to choose Oats > prplhz I think this is sound.. earlier gonzaw said he agreed with aspects of the oatmaster points Fivetouch raised (7) When he concedes FT as mayor I like the post. Again feels like natural thoughts. I agree that prplhz felt like taking a stab in the dark. but really any day1 lynch is going to be like that. you have to go off a hunch with the limited time to get information. Again pushes for oats by suggestion. hmmm. Also calls out chez for swapping votes ?three? times... i want to know thoughts on this. Austin -> BKE -> Gonzaw) Night 1Still supports Oats hmmm has blended in.. asks status quo questions.. doesnt seem to be scum hunting (p4) Then says if i die.. take out Oats/Annul.. but hasnt added anything further to them. On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote:
Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill).
Unless some of them were a vig shot.
Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"?
Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? This is a really weird post, and I cant wrap my finger around it. im not satisfied with response.. its token. On January 23 2013 10:41 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:38 DearestSnot wrote:
you saw JieXian and Djodref being shot by scum?
wtf? I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. The problem wasnt that they werent scum.. the problem was that no1 was a vet.. and JX had no impact on the game, and rather was under suspicion.. its fucked up.. why he saw it coming just isn’t satisfactorily answered. He also keeps saying haven’t read for a while all the time.. Also Doesn’t build case on oats until oats pressures him.. really odd, but has kept suggesting his lynch Overall, no major attempts to contribute with scum hunting, even though it was a campaign goal. So in summary he left a great first impression on me.. but as the game has gone, he as kept saying he needs to catch up and is starting to express disinterest in the game. He has contributed minimally to scum hunting, and whilst having 6 pages, most is based about current thread discussions instead of scum hunting. Considering he didnt seriously push hard for the mayor position, I dont think its a case of butthurt causing the decline in interest. I can definitely attribute this behaviour to scum play. But, before outright declaring him scum, I would like his take of what I noticed.
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On January 24 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Mocsta, can you succinctly tell me what makes me scum? Rather than just mentioning it every other post.
Since you asked nicely, why not.
Positives
Post 1
You could have taken more advantage of my direct mis-read of your quote.. Prob more of a town tell than scum, but, either alignment could have taken the stance you did. I will consider this more towny though.
Negatives
(Post 1)
(1) He has really turned DOWN the [intentional]aggression. and really turned UP the [emotional] aggressoin. which is odd.. a null tell overall though (but with (2) and (3) gives me concern)
(2) Most of his responses are when pressured, and when he does try to pressure the questions are lacking in quality.. having just played a game with Oats as town, I can see a stark contrast (we also MAJORLY butted heads that game)
(3) He keeps asking others for scum reads, but is not providing his own.
(Post 2)
(1) FT references your change in behaviour from classic town oats. I.E. Super aggressive as town and suddenly this game super defensive. This aligns with my read from Negative - Post 1. Please note originally I attributed this behaviour shift due to "vet syndrome" but you yourself have commented you feel confident, so the point I raised to defend you is moot.
(Post 3)
If I was going to sum up your town play.. its very similar to what Vivax is doing this game.. Just throwing accusations around freely. You are scumhunting in your own way, but it is also wild and reckless.
This post here is critical and it points out your lie in regards to being "shy" - you did retract this later and added that you were indeed confident.. if you are indeed confident then your approach this game directly conflicts with your town game of being "balls to the wall"
In a nutshell,- I played a game with you one week ago. We butted heads majorly, and you would not stop. You showed ultra-aggressive, ultra-accusatory behaviour and this has been repeated in your other confirmed town games.
- This game you have taken a much softer approach and have chosen when to elicit aggression.
- As per my post 1, you have not particularly followed up on scum reads either.
I think this all equates to a game style that was premeditated due to role alignment => SCUM.
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On January 24 2013 14:45 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away.
OK.
Vivax filter. His last 2 to 3 pages, he created a shit-storm of accusations. (i.e. last 12 to 16 hrs of play)
Do you think he is disrupting the play intentionally? If so, is it scum motivated?
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On January 24 2013 14:48 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 12:48 Mocsta wrote:
Agreed.. my main rational is.. if we lynch a BG and he is scum... scum still have 2KP (due to rounding up)
If we lynch a BG and he is town.. scum still 2 KP and mayor/sheriff have no protection. (assuming 1 bg = town)
The risk isnt worth it.
if we lynch a BG and he is scum I will offensively jail :3
hhhmmmmm.. that makes things very interesting.
do you have a stronger read than Oats currently? Do you think it is worth the risk?
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On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right.
Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW?
Take it however you want.
You have a very strong (try too hard to be dominant) personality.
I think your a perfect candidate for a meta-read; as your strength of character is expressed very vividly.
We were also arguing intimately for at least 10-12hrs last game, so I am more than aware of what I can expect from a town Oatsmaster. I was pushing your buttons regardless of whether you want to admit it.
Either way, regardless of meta, you have not done much to contribute to the scum hunt. Fair enough you have had to respond to defenses, but you have still gone out of your way to throw jabs here and there. This behaviour just really feels forced to me.
Considering I have picked up on the lack of scum hunting.. who is your current scum read?
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On January 24 2013 14:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
So basically it is a meta read and not cause I am scummy in this game. Right.
Meta read in my 5th game. WHO KNEW?
P.S.
I was getting meta'd in my 2nd game by... newbies
This is hardly a revolution.
We playing with the big boys.. this is part of what they do. Deal with it.
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EPT
