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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Xatalos doesn't actually scumhunt. He asks strings of pointless questions, and brings up things and then doesn't provide any conclusions. On January 13 2013 11:07 Xatalos wrote: Why are you even playing this game if you don't want to put in effort? I can't imagine scum playing like that, but that's still not an excuse to play anti-town. What is the purpose behind this post? First, it doesn't even make sense. Not being able to imagine scum playing like that has nothing to do with an excuse to play anti-town. Perhaps he thinks kush is town and wants him to shape up? Well then why does he contradict himself when he called out jay for doing the exact same thing? On January 13 2013 09:27 Xatalos wrote: That smilie doesn't really mean anything, but rather look at jay's post before it. That's just too aggressive for my taste. Did anyone else react like that to Kushm4sta's (trollish) posting? Why would it be scummy to draw attention without any need? Even the way he does it is strange. It doesn't directly say, 'hey jay is making out things that aren't there, jay is scummy for doing so'. It's more of an invitation for people to consider jay scummy without actually calling him scummy. On January 13 2013 11:30 Xatalos wrote: What are you saying? You agree with hopeless so he's more scummy than grush whom you think is scummy with the same reasons as hopeless? Yeah, supersoft's focus on a single smilie was very overdone. But I think he looked pretty convinced about the matter. Why was it fake? Maybe he just wanted to pressure and get a reaction? Here is a really awkward defense of supersoft. A totally unjustified soft defense of someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it. Stands in stark contrast to finding jay's post 'too aggressive for his taste'. On January 13 2013 12:01 Xatalos wrote: Well, take a look at my previous game. I was lynched because I couldn't get a solid scumread on anyone. I'm definitely trying my best, but it's this early. If I had to lynch someone at this spot, it would be Jay. This is the first time some pressure is applied on him. How does he handle it? It is a totally apologetic tone, mixed in with some appeasement (which contrasts to him "calling out jay" later on, even though nothing has really changed, not to mention that he doesn't mention at all jay's posts on supersoft, or supersoft's scummy second entrance). Scum apologize and make themselves seem smaller than they are (cf Ver's guide). ##Vote: Xatalos | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 13 2013 14:38 thrawn2112 wrote: you said enough second guessing, what were your other thoughts about before deciding on xatalos? "Maybe Xatalos is really really weird town" was my conflicting thought. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 13 2013 15:08 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Xatalos His interaction with MrZ regarding Kush looks super-duper sketchy. He's balls-out convinced that Kush's 180 was scummy, then backs down to a "townish" read when confronted by MrZ. I think the post you are thinking of is directed at kush (based on the next post in his filter). | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 13 2013 15:24 thrawn2112 wrote: any comments on other stuff that's happened in the thread? what do you think about hopeless, grush, super, zentor, and ruuch? super pulled some total bs with his second entry, which happened to coincide when you started your pressure on Xatalos. It's really dangerous to make such connections but the case stands well enough alone that it's something worth considering. ruuch is totally new, and all he has to do is chime in with his most current thoughts now and again and we will all get along. Going after him right now makes no sense to me. I wrote down somewhere hopeless was just echoing something someone else already said, and put down "acting useless". I like grush. Mr Zentor is ok too. And by that I mean, unless someone shows me Xatalos and super is probably not scum, I won't be looking into these guys. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 13 2013 15:31 Hapahauli wrote: Yes that's what I said no? Xatalos direct a post towards Kush here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=14#280 At which point MrZ confronted him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#282 At which point Xatalos backed down: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#287 I'm looking at these, where he says "should have quoted this post". http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#287 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=15#289 On that note I also like jay on his ability to read and point out the ambiguity. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 13 2013 15:48 Hapahauli wrote: Also SloOsh, is the reason you think supersoft is scum only because of association, or is there something else? I don't like his case on MrZ, but I'm unsure if that's scum motivated or ignorant-townie motivated. I never make reads based on associations, and no one ever should. I think he is scum because of the stupid way he presented the whole thing. He an old school player, and from the little I've seen he is good. Not sure what you mean by ignorant. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 04:40 thrawn2112 wrote: that case on xatalos would be VERY easy to make, and it comes at an opportunistic time to make such a case. and apart from that, sloosh doesn't have opinions on other stuff happening in the thread, much like yourself How does making an easy case devoid it of it's truth value, and what makes it opportunistic, and how do these things make me scum? If I think Xatalos is scum why would I bother commenting on other stuff, especially since no one is actually presenting and pushing for scum? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote: And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this. I looked at his play from Paranoia and a bunch of other ones too, and this game's play looked nothing like his play in former games, either town or scum, which was the cause of the "second guessing" comment I started with. Do you think his meta indicates something about his alignment, particularly his drastic change in playstyle? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 09:55 Promethelax wrote: what drastic change in playstyle are we talking about here SloOsh? Explain it to me like you want me to understand it. In this game he waffles around and takes forever to come to a conclusion that jay is scum when British and Paranoia show that he is capable of making conclusions and scum reads. Newbie XV shows that he is comfortable with playing scum (opposed to lurking / timidity that you often see), openly making calls and reads. It's doesn't matter if you don't see a drastic change in playstyle because my case doesn't use meta, but it does matter if you think something about his meta is alignment telling but that is on your side and not mine to guess. So out with it. | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 12:44 supersoft wrote: sloosh seriously. idc about zentors lists. he probably just forgot you. i won't speculate about it. just ask him and not me. since youre here. do you think its okay to critisize me for voting you because youre a vet and simultaniously votes me? Are you talking about me or someone else? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I don't like how his stance changes regards to Xatalos. On January 14 2013 06:59 Promethelax wrote: SloOsh's points on you super are exactly why I am reluctant to vote him, he has accurately expressed the thought I have with your play. It is useless bullshit. While his case was weak it had some merit, even though I won't be voting X today. It had some merit means that he clearly was trying to actively push his lynch and, based on the post Bugs pulled up regarding his interaction with Hapa, was clearly involved with the thread while present. On January 14 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote: hapa, aren't you pressuring weak lynch bait in Xat and Ru? Speaking of players who have vanished for a while what about SloOsh? Why isn't he on your list? On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote: And as to the case on Xatalos, have you looked at his play in Paranoia? (SloOsh you get to answer this one as well). Hapa I'll tell you what I think after the answer to this. On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote: 'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it. In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. The first post comes before Xatalos' defense of my case. He says my case is weak, which means his objective read on Xatalos at that point is null / town. The 2nd post reinforces this as he calls Xatalos weak lynch bait, i.e. a scummy looking townie that is easy for scum to push. The third post positions itself for a defense of Xatalos. You don't support a lynch by presenting supporting evidence to the primary pushers like that. Final post he decides to find Xatalos scummy. On meta basis alone, even though the read on this game was town? Nothing indicates that he has a super strong town read on Hapa and highly values Hapa's meta read over his own read. But he somehow ends on the Xatalos is scummy side of the wagon. It seems incredibly opportunistic. Call slOosh's case weak when everyone else does, call Xatalos scum when everyone else does. What do you guys think? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
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On January 14 2013 15:09 supersoft wrote: what? bullshit. wbg said that later in the game. Prom cannot look in the future. ah your comment is completely useless... This is no explanation, this is useless. Cannot work with that. What i wanted you to see is that prom didn't carefully read me. If he had carefully read me, he would know that I am a fairly experienced player since i already posted it in the thread. That wouldnt give us much intel about his alignment though. That was the first explanation. The second explanation is, that he doesn't really care about vets and no vets, because he wants to lynch me not because i accused a vet but because he's scum and i am on the right track about him and maybe 1-2 more players. http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/YwLMP7ia2me Post 125. I assumed Prom got the idea from that because, as you said, WBG's comment comes later. Either that or he and WBG is scum buddies and they shared information. There's nothing we can do to determine how he knows this, so I think it's null. I do however find his Xatalos stance switching is scummy. What do you think of that? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 15:09 thrawn2112 wrote: completely unfamiliar with xata's play =/= done extensive meta research those are like 99% mutually exclusive On January 14 2013 10:16 slOosh wrote: In this game he waffles around and takes forever to come to a conclusion that jay is scum when British and Paranoia show that he is capable of making conclusions and scum reads. Newbie XV shows that he is comfortable with playing scum (opposed to lurking / timidity that you often see), openly making calls and reads. You really are seeing things that aren't there thrawn. My statement of "Xatalos is weird town" isn't a sweeping statement meaning I thought Xatalos is a weird player. You can see in my second post that I've looked at his previous games and his current play doesn't match up to either town or scum play. That is weird. Even if the contradiction you think you are seeing is there, you can clearly see that I'm not pushing to lynch Xatalos on that point anyways. Now comment on my Prom thoughts. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
##Unvote: Xatalos ##Vote: Promethelax | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 15:32 thrawn2112 wrote: sloosh I don't see what's necessarily scummy about the stuff you pointed out. people can have conflicting alignment connection theory ideas if they don't know who is scum Yea but there is a basis for each conclusion you make. Maybe a certain post makes you think a player is more townie than you thought, maybe a certain case makes you think a player is more scummy than you thought. Prom swapped and I'm saying there isn't anything to base that swap, which is a scum thing to do, because they already know the alignments and can screw up like that. Do you see sufficient reason for Prom to decide to swap his read like that? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 14 2013 15:44 Promethelax wrote: Sloosh, what changed is that I reread the thread, looked into Xat's past and changed my mind. I at first thought he was a scummy looking dude who is always scummy (see Jay) even when town. On looking into him more as a player I decided that his play this game is different from his past, town, games. I knew that since I had earlier stated that I would not vote xat so I used that to pressure you and Hapa to give reasons for your read and to provide a better way for me to read both of you. Can you clearly describe to me how you employ meta to read people in general? You called my case weak. What about it was weak? I brought up the fact that his play is also different from his scum play, yet you never bring this into consideration. Why? | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 05:37 Xatalos wrote: Btw Sloosh, since you're here. Are you avoiding me or something? You haven't answered me for a long time, why? On January 14 2013 15:37 slOosh wrote: Sleeping now, and if it isn't clear I think Prom is scum and prefer him over Xatalos. An answer is implicit in the fact that I've dropped you to go after Prom. There's currently nothing to be gained from me interacting with you unless you have some insight into Prom that you have yet to share. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 05:09 Promethelax wrote: 3. I assume we're still talking about Xat here, I don't see you stating that. I just reread your case but maybe I'm missing it. Could you direct me to that post of yours? On January 14 2013 09:48 slOosh wrote: I looked at his play from Paranoia and a bunch of other ones too, and this game's play looked nothing like his play in former games, either town or scum, which was the cause of the "second guessing" comment I started with. Do you think his meta indicates something about his alignment, particularly his drastic change in playstyle? On January 14 2013 10:16 slOosh wrote: In this game he waffles around and takes forever to come to a conclusion that jay is scum when British and Paranoia show that he is capable of making conclusions and scum reads. Newbie XV shows that he is comfortable with playing scum (opposed to lurking / timidity that you often see), openly making calls and reads. It's doesn't matter if you don't see a drastic change in playstyle because my case doesn't use meta, but it does matter if you think something about his meta is alignment telling but that is on your side and not mine to guess. So out with it. Yea I still think Prom is scum. | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote: Examples please. I disagree with your statement. Yo, the guy you are leaning town on is set to be lynched. What are you doing? | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
I see neither, but I do see people complaining about the Prom lynch. If you don't like it then do something about it. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Im poking Zentor for misrepresenting wbg's filter. Yea ... because that's the most important thing before one of your town reads is gonna get lynched. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 07:48 Xatalos wrote: Hmm. I can accept that you're focusing on Prom now, close to the lynch, but why did you totally ignore me earlier in the day after you made your case on me? Even though I responded to your case and questioned you about that? It just feels weird that you would drop any interest you had in your #1 scumread after making a new case. Were you even serious about that case on me? My time is limited and I wanted to pursue some other reads. Prom's one ended up more fruitful. I really don't know how to get more specific than that - it's a playstyle thing. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
On January 15 2013 08:22 Lazermonkey wrote: Sloosh, do you sincerely see a scum motivation for being so back and forth with his opinions about Xata? It wasn't even a very good bandwagon attempt as there was only one vote at Xata at the time when he said he found him scummy. Votes don't necessarily reflect the opinions of people, especially early day 1. My point with that post is that there is no actual basis for his back and forth switching. Even "lower level" town players all have some basis for switching reads (regardless of if they are valid or not). His basis is meta and I call bs on that. | ||
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slOosh
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slOosh
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One is his constant needling of me when I stopped paying attention to him. Scum prefer to lay low and this works directly against it, because it draws my attention. Second is his wbg case. Of all the people to build such a case on, I don't think scum Xatalos would try drawing town WBG's attention to himself like that. | ||
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slOosh
3291 Posts
Biggest tip off was how he didn't care at all about the lynch, especially given that I called him out for it, and his response: On January 15 2013 07:33 Hopeless1der wrote: If I can show him to be scummier than Prom, then yes, that would be rather useful. ZENTOR, HOP TO IT Absolutely nothing showed an effort to defend Prom or push someone else harder. He just didn't care about the lynch. Other stuff in his filter gives off wanting to be seen as useful / doing stuff. On January 14 2013 01:03 Hopeless1der wrote: Just woke up, addressing my grush read before I catch up on the rest of the thread: First, I'm no longer convinced of my scumread, but here's my explanation for my reasoning. That thing I recalled from memory was austinmcc's breakdown of town-grush vs scum-grush in PTP3 (spoilered for length): + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote: A Tale of Two Grushes Grush - LV Day 1 involves a mayor/pardoner vote. Grush is pretty active during that day. Some one liners, some longer posts, but actual thoughts. See? Look at that. Like a page of filter off the bat, with some real stances. Grush open being poked at by Toad, over a potential scumslip: Look at this conversation with Toad. Toad initially points out an inconsistency in the number of scum, says Grush might be scum because he counted only 5 scum in a game that had 6 (indicating he might have 5 buddies). Grush gives actual responses, discusses it just being a typo. Doesn't just discuss himself either, but notes the lurkers, has counted posts, and says where he thinks mafia might be hiding. Grush will occasionally call some folks scummy - + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 11:19 grush57 wrote: I nominate Kenpachi for the lynch. He is playing his scum meta. Last game, he was inactive and he turned out to be scum. He's putting in less effort than Sinesis who got lynched. All of his posts are one liner's except for one which he makes a list, which is something a scum usually does(I learned that from a real vet.) I ACCUSE YOU, KENPIKACHU! On May 30 2012 11:48 grush57 wrote: I'm being mean Kenpachi, you're a pretty cool dude, I'm sorry :"(. There have been rumors, starting in LIV. That I have, mystical powers. They rarely unleash. This, is a special case. (LOL YEAH I JUST MADE A LIST WHEN I SAID MAKING LISTS ARE SCUMMY DEAL WITH IT) You would except him to pick 1-2 vets 2-3 normals and 2-3 noobs right 1.(The smart, cunning godfather) Mr.Wiggles(1 vet down) He posts long, too long to read. He knows better than to lynch someone with no information. I also heard he is pretty good at mafia. If you look at his posts, only a page and there is a lot of indecisiveness in his posts. 2.(The undeserving vet)Mattchew(MAKE IT 1.5) His trap, was actually a trap to get a townie to question him and to get an easy peasy day2 town lynch. He was also lurking and he is a vet common bro you are better. 3.(The bigshot normal)StrongandBig(Pewpew 1)Im running for mayor, jk, no seriously. Et, no gf Mr.Wiggles.Buss my buddy gambit. 4.(Deh studious lurker)Gambitxc32(1(forduhnubs)) I can imagine the qt now(YO GAMBIT MY MAN U GONNA LURK CUZ ALL DEEZ NUBZ ARE LURKING LOL, THO WHEN THEY FIGURE THAT ME, WIGGZ, IS GF U GOTTA VOTE ET SO WE DON'T LOOK CONNECTED)## Studious VOTE: agree. Oh and yeah he is a lurker and was scared of wbg getting on his case and went for him. He obviously is paying attention to game responding to jaj(?) post asking him about stuff or w/e lol. 5.(idk actually, lets say normal)Zealos(yeah were about quick to lynch someone who is town(LOL THEY DONT KNWO THAT I KNOW WHO IS TOWN) aww yeah towncred(like they were actually gonna lynch toad lol such easy cred town fools) Better lurk it up you know, be scummy and put no effort LOL wtf zealos. 6.papapanda or... Manason. When Kenpachi(♥) mentioned him I was like, holy shit these town nubs let another scum hide, brbbbb gotta check dem filter and this took a long time to post and I saw that you put starsenses. Now, I think you might say that or w\e because u think I'll mislead them, but no i am a wizard. Basically, he was doing a bunch of a lil commenting on people not on my starsense list saying bs, less than a page of filter, however he commented on my starsenses so I love him and probly not mafia. Manason- MMK CHECKED HIS FILTER 3RD PAGE-DONT LYNCH GRUSH POLICY LYNCHES ARE BAD. Okay, someone in your QT played LIV and knew how I screwed up town and told everyone to not lynch me so I'd screw up the game. All the people who wanted me dead early game was town(Sinesis and Bh) Noob mistake of saying(ooh protect my gf Mr. Wiggles) more 1 liners blah blah blah too long, OMG YOU GUYS ARE ON MY BUDDY LETS BRING UP KITAMAN27. No, he made the same mistake as me in LIV, randomly voted someone. My starsense powers sais he is town. Okay so I did all this in TL (LOL I KNOW) and the thread has probably progressed alot as this took like 20-30 mins to write. Please note I am unsure about the 6th mafia. Oh, and a lot of the bad grammar was on purpose. But he won't really back those accusations up - + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2012 12:04 grush57 wrote: Sigh majuju, you were lurking too and now that I called out your buddy you finally unlurked. LOL SERIOUSLY TOWN NUBS STAR TPOSTING asdaSDFASDFA. Okay, I will bring up the posts. Actually just read them too much work lol. On June 02 2012 04:33 grush57 wrote: Why don't you ask the scum that question? But really, its obvious who is town and who is scummy on that list of who voted. On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a little over 4 pages, and he died N2. Grush - LVI Grush's D1 - Here! Game starts somewhere in the middle. Way less contribution. When he does post, it's agreeing with someone, or little one liners, followed by just a vote on a wagon target. When Grush gets poked, he responds with one-liners - + Show Spoiler + Plenty of others but that's enough Scumgrush makes "cases," but they're just kind of weak accusations, or nonsense - + Show Spoiler + On July 04 2012 03:46 grush57 wrote: Grush was sitting in the tent. Vivax was walking in with a angry crowd behind him ridiculing him about his bad performance. His excuses were very bad, said the crowd, and that HIS LOGIC FAILS. Grush agreed. ##Vote: Vivax On July 07 2012 07:35 grush57 wrote: T_T definitely between Twelve and BKE though. Kurumi's post does really point out the flaws of BKE, and when pressure came off he was all beepin up the beep, ya know. BUT u may b like, GURSHDEVICE U DON'T HELP AT ALL. True, homeieieieieieieiieieeieieieieieiei, but it doesn't change the fact. aLZo, 11, __, 13 seems like a noobie townie. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ##Vote:BKE On July 13 2012 01:38 grush57 wrote: I want to lynch Majuju. all dat lurking and then when called out he is getting all freaky(in the wrong way mmkay) ##Vote: MajuGarzett On the whole, including pregame banter and postgame, a not quite 4 full pages of filter. Lived until endgame, which was the end of D4. So, based only on two games and nothing else, what patterns do we see in Grush's play?
PokeGrush PokeGrush's filter is a decent bit over 4 pages, after 3 full cycles (And he spent part of it banned) He starts off responding to questions - + Show Spoiler + On August 20 2012 09:00 Mr. Wiggles wrote: How have you done that? Also, in keeping with the spirit of the thread, spam spam spam On August 20 2012 09:02 grush57 wrote: See look at wiggles, he asks me a legit question. Plus, he continues my tradition  To answer the question, breadcrumb, and meta. Plus I'm town. Now, we must find scum. I must stop posting so scum can start posting and then we catch them. Cool trick. On August 22 2012 11:39 grush57 wrote: Well I mean he's posting cases and defending himself and contributing. I don't know why he was the closest to being lynched. On August 24 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote: Well, half his posts are before the game, and he just is basically lurking and not helping. In scum teams in my experience, you have 2-3 active in the thread, and 1-2 basically lurking Toad and chezinu died, I feel like there is only one major player in the thread that is scum atm. Also dirk may be scum aswell, before his posts were useless and now he just lurks. He gives some reads, with...some reasoning - + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 10:55 grush57 wrote: Okay so, I get banned, then People are all up in Drazerk's face because he is telling everybody to kill him and being stupid with that attitude. Still, I think he is town. Then the town switched to Dirkzor, I don't think he is scum either, he is helping out and responding. Hopeless1dr ninja votes, he is scum. People calling out Kurumi for being scummy, I agree. Toad(jk, lol idk) shoots VE, people get on VE's chain for policy lynching. NO ONE IS UP IN JINGLE'S GRILL ABOUT HIM WANTING TO POLICY LYNCH ME:O. Also I think Hiropro? Heist? made a post calling out Jingle which is good cuz he is scum. Then it's like Zephirrid(null on him, he has been getting scummier the longer the game has been going so far) and imallison(who I thought was a noob townie) and dirkzor(I think he is town aswell). End up lynching a townie and thats about where we were at. So my scum list is: JingleHell(SCUMSCUMSCUM) Hopeless1dr(ninja vote, scum) Maybe BioSC(I don't even know why but he is scum) He engages in minor discussion - + Show Spoiler + On August 22 2012 11:03 grush57 wrote: lol. no. You're assuming he's playing differently because he got butthurt. I'm saying that your scum. Different things On August 25 2012 06:49 grush57 wrote: Jingle, you don't answer to any of the cases against you, you keep bandwagoning on the townies!!!!!!!!!!! You call me scum because I'm actually playing this time?!?!?!?1?!!??!?1?1?1!/1?1?1!?1?1 However when commenting on VE's play you said he wanted to play differenty and give him the benefit brohan. Which is me questioning VE being town right now. But all the vets aren't trying, the one who did was BC and he died, and Wiggles is playing the EXACT same way he did as scum before. When I played with WBG before and he was town he was very active, and Kenpachi could be town or scum because he is Kenpachi. **I doctored this quote because it was split into two posts** I could keep pulling more stuff from this game, but now I want to do something else. So instead, you should read this. You should come to your own conclusions. But if you think Grush is scum, you need some decent reasoning. Because it looks to me like he's playing much more like he did in LV than in LVI. It looks to me like there are some actual helpful posts buried in the trolling. D2 I didn't think hopeless1der was scum, but I didn't fight it hard enough, had just entered the game. D3 I didn't think VE was scum, and I should have swapped my vote from Wiggles to misder in order to try and get a switch at the end. D4 I don't think Grush is scum, and it's time to actually stand up and fight his lynch, early. I do not want scum having control of this one. The jist of what was relevant to me was that scum-grush is rather flippant when accused, just like his response to Thrawn this game. In addition, grush' towncrumb is 100% accurate afaik, so I was kind of baiting for that as well. He's completely self-aware of this fact, but its probably no longer useful because I'm using it to explicitly coerce him now. Since I reinforced my scumread without actually doing anything, he OMGUSed me with the reasoning that I didn't have a legitimate reason for voting him (as quoted above). Grush' activity has little to no bearing on his scumminess to me because in my experience he trolls regardless of alignment. His relative 'usefulness' is different and worth noting but is not alignment indicative. His questions and concern for the game (which is still apparent in troll-mode) are what distinguishes grush from his town/scum selves. What I 'expected' from town-grush was closer to his response to me. His response to Thrawn was dismissive and was really the only reason I had to go after him in the first place. When I accused him, he wanted to know why I thought he was scum, seemed to want to discuss it. He's also spent time reading the thread, or at least it seems that way from his filter. ##Unvote: grush57 Like, was this really necessary? He wasn't in danger of being lynched, and he said in the post before that he might "be talking out of my ass". The meticulous follow up certainly does not match up with his previous uncertainty. Hapa's case covers the rest. | ||
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slOosh
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Huh ... I guess I tipped my hand. I think you are scum. | ||
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I planned on testing out my read of WBG by presenting my read on hopeless. I think hopeless is scum, and wanted to push him today and gauge WBG's reactions accordingly, especially since it seemed WBG was showing, what I perceive as, some unwarranted leniency to hopeless. Of course this is something characterized under tone, feel etc. which is why I wanted to see his response to better gauge it. I will now field any and all questions. | ||
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On January 16 2013 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote: nah, this is exactly what I would expect from scum slOosh. I call you scum, vote you, and say that I will tunnel the fuck out of you unless you give reads. You see it, panic, and take lots of time to post a half-assed read of someone who you haven't mentioned all game, but happens to be one of my scumreads too, perhaps in the hope that you will get me to agree with you, drop you as a target, and lynch the other guy instead. I think you're both scum, and that post was made as a calculated risk. Too bad your execution was shit. You die today. Hopeless dies tomorrow. Ok I'll slowly visit WBG's posts to show the subtle moves he makes in each one, starting from the ones he made today. In fact, I think the reality is that WBG saw Hapa's case on hopeless and is using my mislynch as a diversion. He is straight out lying about calling hopeless a scumread. On January 14 2013 10:55 wherebugsgo wrote: On reread Hopeless doesn't seem that bad, just really lazy. I want him to actually do something though, or I may consider pushing him tomorrow, assuming I'm alive. On January 15 2013 07:42 wherebugsgo wrote: Also lol @ hopeless. sadly I can't tell whether you're scum trying to appear reasonable or whether you're simply town. Sigh. On January 15 2013 11:19 wherebugsgo wrote: anyway on a serious note: the two who escaped lynch yesterday through that prom debacle were Lazer and Xatalos. I am more suspicious of Xatalos, considering that he wasn't around as much during lynch time. He just kinda slinked away, while Lazer at the very least was around and doing stuff. His only contributions really were asking slOosh why his opinion changed on him-very self-centric. Hapa, thrawn, and slOosh I basically have auto-town reads on. I hope they don't turn into the sciberbias of this game. (I had an auto-town read on Prom too) Xatalos (1): jaybrundage Promethelax (7): slOosh, thrawn2112, grush57, MrZentor, Xatalos, Ruuch, Supersoft Lazermonkey (1): Promethelax Ruuch (4): Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, Hapahauli, Hopeless1der The bolded votes are shady. Ruuch avoided a modkill/replacement by voting right before the deadline. I think that's too close to consider that coincidence. We will have to kill him at some point and there's almost no way scum will shoot him, ever. I suppose we can push him off till later, but I know the game will come down to it at some point. Jay, don't waste your vote tomorrow if you are town. If I die tonight and jay gets away without contributing much, please someone tunnel the fuck out of him. Secondly, the late votes on Prom: Ruuch's is the worst. Xatalos's is also pretty bad, considering that I never actually felt that he cared about the lynch. His argument was that he preferred Prom over Lazer. Whatever. Zentor and Grush are basically either trolls or scum, and grush's contributions this game err on the side of scum for me. In addition to all of these players we have Hopeless, who seems to be feigning reasonability to live. He doesn't seem to be very interested in finding scum, either. So, we have at least 4-5 players who I would confidently label "antitown" and not all of them can be scum. Wonderful. Seems like preferential treatment of hopeless. Why does he get a bye when everyone else doesn't? What the crap does the first post mean? "I want this guy to do something, or I'll push him. Tomorrow. After I might die". Do you think WBG is a guy who tolerates crappy play? Then why let hopeless get away with it? WBG is incredibly on the fence with so many people without actually seeming to be wishy washy. He could call anyone a town read and find reason to reverse it, me being a great example. Tricky right? He is misinterpreting the situation. | ||
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On January 16 2013 11:46 iamperfection wrote: what did you expect his reactions to be with each alignment? If he was town he would express agreement / disagreement, particularly to Hapa's case as well. If not he would figure out a way to divert the lynch, because it would be stupid to let one of his buddies get the noose without a fight. | ||
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slOosh
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On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote: auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts. One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad. There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum. I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town. This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you. The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town. On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote: given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super. On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote: Why does prom not care about getting lynched? This whole thing bothers me No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening. The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason. No actual reasons for lynching me. | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote: your push on Prom WAS bad. I left Prom alone because I wanted him to defend himself. I even said myself that I didn't plan on defending anyone. That's why I said it was bothersome that Prom wasn't defending himself. I found it strange in light of the fact that I had a town read of him-it made my confidence waver. The whole Zentor crap was simply me stopping him from misrepresenting my play. If I wanted to defend Prom I would have, but I wanted to see his response to the case, and I wanted to see what others would do without me stepping in. Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy? | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:27 iamperfection wrote: As for other scum reads sloosh hasn't really done anything this game and i dont really buy that he was going to push hopeless just to figure wbg seems like a flawed process to me. I was going to push hopeless because he was my scum read, and the push itself was designed to give me a read on WBG. I wasn't pushing hopeless for the sole reason to get a reaction from WBG, it was an additional reason. On January 16 2013 12:30 Hapahauli wrote: Your WBG suspicions are predicated on the following: 1) WBG is wishy-washy. I agree with this, but is WBG wishy-washy as scum? I always took him as a very aggressive character in his scum-games. 2) WBG's attitude on Hopeless is scummy. However, making associations is absurd before Hopeless actually flips. What I'm most concerned with though is your sudden burst of "WBG is scum, here are all the reasons why!" You had all night to push him and question him, yet you did not do so. Instead, the second WBG votes you, you start flinging posts left and right about how he's your top scumread and how he's so scummy. The timing of all of this is incredibly convenient. Because my suspicions were on supersoft but his flip changed my reads around. 1) If being wishy washy let's him play to push scum agenda, why not? Just because you perceive that he may have a "preferred playstyle" doesn't mean he is limited to playing to it, would it? 2) His attitude on Hopeless is scummy regardless of Hopeless' alignment because as town you don't give certain players preferential treatment just for kicks, and for someone who doesn't tolerate bad play as much as WBG it is especially out of character. There is more scum motivation for treating someone special than there is town. | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote: Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy? | ||
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In fact, if he agrees that hopeless is scum, as do Hapa, iamp, then there is no reason to give hopeless another cycle to survive. There is no reason to lynch me today, lynch hopeless next cycle. More preferential treatment. WBG, put your money where your mouth is. If I'm obviously scum, then surely you can convince town that I'm scum later right? ##Vote: hopeless1der | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:53 Hapahauli wrote: Welp. This is a lot to digest right now. I'll have to sleep on this some and see what I come up with tomorrow. Between Hopeless and WBG, who do you think is more likely to flip scum? I think lynching hopeless today is the correct play as four of us (Hapa slOosh WBG and iamp) have good scum reads on him. | ||
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On January 16 2013 17:28 jaybrundage wrote: Sloosh looks like scum to me. He makes a a case on Hopeless1der. But its mostly just a test case to see if WBG is scummy. When WBG starts putting pressure on him he OMGUS's but ends up backing off and saying lets just lynch Hopeless1der instead. I agree that Hopeless hasn't contributed much at all this game and that he does look scummy. But the fact that Sloosh wants to vote for hopeless seems really suspect to me. Why would scum vote for there partner when there are other lynch candidates today. He could of picked out of alot of different people like grush lazer. It doesn't make any sense that he would pick someone that would be his partner. It feels like Sloosh is taking the easy way out. He didnt feel confident to try to lych town WBG so he backs off and decided to go for Hopeless again. ##Vote SloOsh On January 16 2013 12:47 slOosh wrote: I was going to push hopeless because he was my scum read, and the push itself was designed to give me a read on WBG. I wasn't pushing hopeless for the sole reason to get a reaction from WBG, it was an additional reason. On January 16 2013 12:16 slOosh wrote: I was taking time off thread to reread carefully given the flip, and didn't have much confidence in my reads to see them worth dumping. I've had some hesitation in straight up building a case against scum WBG, given his reputation, and wanted to do the hopeless thing beforehand. With how I'm approaching my WBG case, do you disagree with my interpretation of things? Do you agree with his interpretation of things? | ||
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On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote: Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy? Notice WBG still hasn't addressed this. | ||
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On January 17 2013 01:21 Hopeless1der wrote: Bugs' vote was on Zentor, until Ruuch showed his face. Bugs didn't do much to stop the Prom lynch, other than trying to get Ruuch at the last minute. This move puts him under suspicion, same as Hapa, but based on the night conversations, I believe only 1 of SlOosh and wbg are scum. I'm not discounting the possibility that both sloosh and wbg are scum, but it seems far less likely, and I think sloosh is more suspicious (/sheep bugs). How? | ||
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On January 17 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote: It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++ Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum? Yea my first game ever, hosted by Qatol and dreamflower. | ||
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It was 9v4, more town roles. | ||
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On January 17 2013 04:51 iamperfection wrote: Oh I thought you were subtly implying people who are assuming 3 scum are scum. It's a reasonable enough assumption that town could make, but not definite enough to be making team guesses, either through interactions that haven't flipped or process of elimination of town reads (if there are 4 scum and you assume 3, then one gets excused as "most town of them"), and it justs spread more suspicions / distractions, even though today's lynch hasn't been properly consolidated. | ||
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slOosh
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On January 17 2013 05:18 jaybrundage wrote: So lets lynch SlOosh then he seems more likely to be scum then hopeless. Also it doesn't make sense for him to try to push hopeless if they are indeed scum. He could of easily put a vote on Lazermonkey instead for instance. Sloosh has been wishy washy and hesitant to push his scum reads. The reasoning being that as scum he doesnt want to straight up push WBG unless he can get some support for it. He completly backs down from it. Also Grush where the hell have you been. You have been lurky and scummy all game. You never posted reasons for your vote. And you show a disinterest in helping town. I would also be willing to lynch grush today over hopeless. It seemed that he dropped of peoples radar. How is that a scummy thing, if I think hopeless has a better chance of flipping scum than him? | ||
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On January 17 2013 08:40 iamperfection wrote: and can someone talk to me in a back in forth basis i find easier to figure things out if some is here with me actively talking about the game asking me questions and what not. Ill be back in an hour. I'll talk. What makes me scum, and what makes me a better choice than hopeless? | ||
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slOosh
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On January 17 2013 10:15 iamperfection wrote: i kind of feel like wbg does i would be willing to kill either of you. So I'll put you down as you think both of us are scum and don't have a preference. Everyone should state clearly what they think when they make the vote. Either X is scum and Y is scum too, Or X is town and Y is scum. With a polarized lynch such as this, even though it may in a mislynch it can garner valuable information for town and puts immense pressure on scum. | ||
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Hopeless, in your own words, what about me is scummy? Or are you purely looking out for yourself and you don't care about my alignment? | ||
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Well no, because I think this wagon on me is awful but seeing as no one is willing to actually discuss it more than a "this is my conclusion, I don't want to talk about my thought process", this is the best I can do. | ||
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On January 17 2013 10:38 Hopeless1der wrote: You're pressure on me when I was commenting on Zentor, and subsequently using it to paint me as scum is my primary motivator in calling you scum. I do not believe there was any sufficient action I could have taken to adequately steered Prom's lynch onto anyone else and you insisting I should have tried harder, when there are multiple players who fit that bill irks me. There's also the night interactions with wbg. I'm not dissecting that discussion. I think you look scummier than bugs and I think there is at least 1 scum between the two of you. That is enough for me at the moment. LOL, like you are busy doing anything else right now. Put your money where your mouth is. Name the actual players culpable, and why you complain that I call you out but have no problem not calling the other players out yourself. | ||
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slOosh
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On January 17 2013 11:19 jaybrundage wrote: SlOosh In the small possibility that you are town. If you could give your reads on everyone and your other scum reads as well, I know that you think Hopeless and WBG are scum is there a third party that appeals to you? We have a whole day left. The more people post and be transparent the better of a chance town has towards winning. The way town gains from this polarizing cycle is forcing everyone to take a hard stance on it. Not letting stuff like this slide. On January 17 2013 01:44 MrZentor wrote: ##unvote ##vote slOosh Gogogogogo On January 17 2013 06:48 grush57 wrote: Sorry guys I know I've been afk but I can't help that. If there's any consolation, i am town because of starsenses. ##Vote: Hopeless1dr On January 17 2013 06:54 grush57 wrote: Nvm Ill go slooshie ##Unvote ##Vote: slOosh They don't have content. Sure you can pull in meta but 1) I have very little faith in almost every single player in TL mafia in their capacity to use it correctly 2) Scum can easily use it to push their agenda and the worst they get is "oh you meta'd wrong". We should be pressuring these guys to give a crap, because it's these guys who will be alive near endgame and we got nothing on them. | ||
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You guys let Mr Zentor and grush lurk away, you guys vote me on a comparison basis of WBG, many of you totally ignoring / avoiding commenting on hopeless (I can't tell the difference) and none of you seem to be concerned that hopeless is lurking now that the lynch is pretty much set. I'll read dump later tonight when I have time, and with my flip you maybe you guys will finally get it together, cause this has got to be the most frustrating town I have ever played with. | ||
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This isn't a comprehensive list because last time I was mislynched I felt pressured to give out reads to survive, and ended up thinking really poorly and making really bad cases. Spoilered is GMarshal's post game commentary of my play. + Show Spoiler + On July 15 2012 23:15 GMarshal wrote: 3.) slOosh - Tunnel less, the battle between you and VE is a pretty clear indicator of two townies arguing to death. Had you just taken a step back and looked at it coldly, you would have seen the people who avoided involvment and edged you on, and been able to kill mafia, instead your stubbornness resulted in your lynch. Still, you were active and open with your opinions, while your misslynch sucked, its not entirely your fault. Your reads were all over the place (and your overly complex theory about D77 being mafia is in line with the kind of stuff overly paranoid townies concoct), which is meh, your case on prpl was good though, you should have stuck with just it day 3 rather than going on tangents all over the place. Not terrible play, but I know you can do better. Remember, go one scum at a time, and *always* take a step back to reconsider a few hours before a lynch. 5/10 Not terrible by any means, also not one of your best games. thrawn2112 I have pegged as a poor town player. Objectively he looks into things that aren't really there. However he is consistent and you can understandably see how his reads were influenced by supersoft. Xatalos Yes. This is blue. I've already pointed it out but his play this game does not match either his town or scum play. It is much more reserved and cautious. At some point I figured that I've confused red for blue, and tried to back out without giving it away. His pursuit of me is very townie as he would no doubt be suspicious, and his case on WBG shows he isn't blending in with the temperature of the thread but going directly against it. So why am I outing him? Because I find his mislynch a high possibility and the way that town is going, I don't think he can aptly defend himself. Reducing mislynch candidates is very important given that there are so many and scum can just shift it away from their buddies. In any case I could be totally wrong so scum have to gamble a shot on him. Here is my pseudo "I found you crumb". I didn't know how to do it without being blatant so I worked with the mason (pumpkin) flavor. On January 15 2013 08:14 slOosh wrote: My time is limited and I wanted to pursue some other reads. Prom's one ended up more fruitful. I really don't know how to get more specific than that - it's a playstyle thing. wherebugsgo I've already pointed out the numerous times he has made up reasons to switch off hopeless even though he agrees with Hapa's case. In the back and forth between us, I call out where he uses the Prom mislynch to push my lynch, which he has never addressed even though I requoted myself multiple times. On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote: Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy? He doesn't actually come to honest discussion but dismisses everything I say, calling it bad without actually showing why it is bad. My personality is very laid back / passive, so of course the impression that people seem to be taking away is WBG cornering a pressured slOosh. But if you honestly read the dialogue between us, it is like he set up his mind that I am scum before the bulk of the information came. He doesn't use the posts to draw conclusions, he already sets one up and proceeds to place all proceeding posts into that conclusion. grush accurately points out that WBG has called near everyone scum at one point or another. You can see in his general playstyle that he calls everyone scum and then is free to pursue whatever he wants. It gives the illusion of scumhunting when in fact you don't see him making that many hard stances. How town should proceed tomorrow Keep WBG accountable for his reads. He stated that he agrees with Hapa that hopeless is scum. My flip doesn't change doesn't have any bearing on hopeless' alignment since the case is totally independent of that. He didn't do crap when Prom was getting lynched and I can guarantee tomorrow he is gonna find some reason to vote someone else, despite that the case still stands. The people who view hopeless as town should hold him to an incredibly high standard because if he is town he has the unique perspective of knowing that it was a town vs town mislynch - and realize that as he doesn't really come up with much that he is scum. Someone should definitely keep an eye out on Hapa. His questions are skewed, assuming a scummy interpretation, and it's pretty hard to point out / call. Like this post here: is it malicious or innocent interpretation? I'm not too sure but I had to correct him, and people started interpreting things how he did. On January 13 2013 15:48 Hapahauli wrote: Also SloOsh, is the reason you think supersoft is scum only because of association, or is there something else? I don't like his case on MrZ, but I'm unsure if that's scum motivated or ignorant-townie motivated. He defends MrZentor on pure meta even though he hasn't really done anything worth defending. If you need town meta to explain your scummy actions then you are playing wrong. On that note grush and MrZentor need to be pressured, but after resolving the hopeless case. I think that's all from me. I still think town can pull this off, just the townies need to get their act together and read into motives. | ||
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On January 18 2013 08:35 jaybrundage wrote: I am assuming that one is his town play and one is his scum play. Which one is which First is SK play, second is scum. | ||
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Epic comeback | ||
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