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On January 21 2013 07:43 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 07:37 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:31 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 21 2013 07:24 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:20 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 21 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Yeah I thought so bugs. Xata or jay, your assistance would be greatly appreciated in the kill lazermonkey endeavor. Hopeless, you realise that a good move as town would be to actually give YOUR reads on ALL people in this situation? After the responses I've been getting all game? Nah I'll be indignant and obnoxious thank you. Less rage inducing for me. Wait, you don't care about the game? But then why take the time to even post this? Why take the time to write a case on both me and Hapa? It doesn't actually matter about what response you will get. Its not only about you avoiding to get lynched anymore but also about you giving town reads we can trust to 100%. If the town can't figure out my town reads based on my filter when I flip...I just... I don't even. I'm not kind of scummy on you and hapa, you're strong reads, so giving town reads on the rest of the player base is redundant Some of your town reads are from daaays ago. And for some of them you don't even give any reasoning what so ever. That isn't very helpfull at all. Do you think you are helping town by just sitting here doing jack shit instead? Please look at the way Lazer is pushing me here. There are a finite number of scum in the game. I STRONGLY believe I've pegged two. At most I've missed one. Lazer's accusations suggest I need to give extensive town reads because they'll be beneficial. Bullshit. My town reads are inherent in the fact that they aren't scumreads. The current "exception" is xata/bugs. I think the scumteam is LM Hapa WBG at the moment. Dude, I'm not even pushing you any longer. I am saying that it is insanely likely that you will die in about one hour and IF you for some reason actually is town instead of scum, the good news for us is that we know everything you have said has been comming from a townie.
If you actually want town to win, you should have realised that by now and start to read filters in order to give out as good reads of every player in the game as you possibly can. You haven't lost the game just because you got lynched and helping us by giving out reads to the best of your ability should be your priority 1 right now.
But owell, If you dont feel like giving out reads, it means you are most likely scum anyways. And I don't feel like arguing with scum about stuff like this.
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EBWOP: Hopeless, you say you don't need to give out any town reads but I disagree. There are difierent types of town reads, strong and weak. Which players are most certainly town in your opinion? Which players looks town to you but could be scum? etc...
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On January 21 2013 07:52 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2013 07:50 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:43 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 21 2013 07:37 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:31 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 21 2013 07:24 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:20 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 21 2013 07:12 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 21 2013 07:07 Hopeless1der wrote:
Yeah I thought so bugs. Xata or jay, your assistance would be greatly appreciated in the kill lazermonkey endeavor. Hopeless, you realise that a good move as town would be to actually give YOUR reads on ALL people in this situation? After the responses I've been getting all game? Nah I'll be indignant and obnoxious thank you. Less rage inducing for me. Wait, you don't care about the game? But then why take the time to even post this? Why take the time to write a case on both me and Hapa? It doesn't actually matter about what response you will get. Its not only about you avoiding to get lynched anymore but also about you giving town reads we can trust to 100%. If the town can't figure out my town reads based on my filter when I flip...I just... I don't even. I'm not kind of scummy on you and hapa, you're strong reads, so giving town reads on the rest of the player base is redundant Some of your town reads are from daaays ago. And for some of them you don't even give any reasoning what so ever. That isn't very helpfull at all. Do you think you are helping town by just sitting here doing jack shit instead? Please look at the way Lazer is pushing me here. There are a finite number of scum in the game. I STRONGLY believe I've pegged two. At most I've missed one. Lazer's accusations suggest I need to give extensive town reads because they'll be beneficial. Bullshit. My town reads are inherent in the fact that they aren't scumreads. The current "exception" is xata/bugs. I think the scumteam is LM Hapa WBG at the moment. Dude, I'm not even pushing you any longer. I am saying that it is insanely likely that you will die in about one hour and IF you for some reason actually is town instead of scum, the good news for us is that we know everything you have said has been comming from a townie. If you actually want town to win, you should have realised that by now and start to read filters in order to give out as good reads of every player in the game as you possibly can. You haven't lost the game just because you got lynched and helping us by giving out reads to the best of your ability should be your priority 1 right now. But owell, If you dont feel like giving out reads, it means you are most likely scum anyways. And I don't feel like arguing with scum about stuff like this. Its LYLO tomorrow. Town reads are meaningless. Every person we have down as town is one less who could be scum. So I beg to differ on this point.
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I think Hopeless is probebly town after those posts... But I will obviously not vote swap to myself.
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On January 21 2013 09:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
Sorry guys, I failed there. I was too stubborn and didn't go with my doubts.
Good news though is that, though we have to lynch correctly tomorrow, it's actually quite a bit easier now. We basically have a free lynch in grush IMO and Lazer is still quite likely to flip scum too.
Bugs, explain how grush is scum?
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I'm going to bed now. Will reevaluate tomorrow.
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On January 22 2013 07:19 iamperfection wrote:
I think hapa has a good chance of flipping scum one thing that stands out to me is that hapa can not stand lurkers and now we have plenty of them at this point with activity really dying off the last few days.
In my mind i believe a town hapa would be doing anything he could think of to spur activity at this point and he hasn't done it and i know he is capable of doing it.
It appears that he doesn't care about the recent developments most likely not because he is having a bad game but more likely because he is scum and his recent attitude. This is a very good point actually. Hapa has posted less than half of what he did in British Empire MM in the same amount of time. Same thing goes for Hero MM.
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Grush, how do you think Xata is 3:party? I'm not even sure it's possible to have two serial killers in this setup. But even if it was possiblee, why haven't we seen more NKs?
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While we obviously don't exactly know how this setup works, we can do some speculation.
The only two possible setups in the game is either:
MMCC??T - 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer
or
MMCCTTT - Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer
So, unless scum is stupid, this would mean they already know (almost certainly, at least) the setup. Now, how is this relevant? Well, during N2 scum didn't actually know anything but that their team consisted of 2Goon + RB or Goon, RB and GF and that SK has flipped. This means that, most likely there would be at least a couple of blue roles. It does seem strange for scum in this position to be RBing Xata if Xata was scum, especially since there was only 10 players left in the game. Assuming two blues, scum would then have a 2/10=20 chance to hit blue only counting pure chance. In reality chances of getting RB on a blue is probebly even greater due to meta changes. This means that scum Xata is probebly very unlikely.
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I'm kind of getting to the point where I think he is scum purely by the process of elimination.
Xata is probebly town.
You seem very town.
WBG does look far better than he did before in my eyes. Stuff like On January 21 2013 08:51 DearestSnot wrote:
LOL this guy, saying I caught slOosh because I am scum. What the actual fuck?
First of all, most of this latest stuff is WIFOMy and not really alignment indicative. Super had a townish read on you, cool story bro. He also had a scumread on Prom. You had a motherfucking "town read" on Prom and you didn't even bother defending him.
This effort seems townish, but it's too little, too late and simply serves to undermine a good lynch. Let's go through with it now, because I can almost guarantee that if Hopeless lives today we 're gonna have to go through this shit again.
Seems to be comming from town. Had he been scum, I think he would've been more inclined to swap over to me. I think that Hopeless last minute post was looking very townie, and if WBG had actually pushed me I very well could've died. After that, we could risk exactly what WBG said. Even if Hopeless would survive today, he would have a hard time surviving tomorrow. And by that time he'd look even worse.
That leaves grush, Jay and Hapa. Atm I think grush is looking the worst, but I'm cool with Hapa lynch as well.
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I'm going to bed early today : /. Gotta go up early.
Will be posting more tomorrow.
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Meh, I got really sick today, have been laying in bed all day TT. Haven't had the strength to play really.
Hapa is obvious scum so I'll vote him. hopefully I'm feeling better tomorrow.
##Vote: Hapahauli
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I'm feeling much better today : D.
As for reads, they are pretty much unchanged since yesterday.
Iamp - town.
WBG - town. I'm even more confident in this read now. The way WBG raged is imo a big town tell. I have seen many guys rage like that and none of them have been scum. Also, he is considering me to be town, which seems to be a stupid strat if he would've been scum.
Xata - most likely town.
Jay - scum.
grush - scum.
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On January 24 2013 11:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
right now? no, I don't think so.
Suppose thrawn was a blue snipe, it's pretty plausible, and they possibly even avoided shooting me because they might have thought I was protted or something, then holding RB is a potential.
My problem with that though is that n2 is when thrawn died and prior to that, scum knew there had to be at least another blue role outside of super, because of the SK flip. Lazer was speculating about it, so either he's scum who simply copied in what his team was talking about or he was trying to figure it out himself. I don't actually see what conclusions he drew from it so it's certainly plausible that he simply copied and pasted what his team was talking about.
Normally if you setup-speculate you at least have a reason for doing it, lazer didn't seem to have one. Like you said, I came to the conclusion that Xata most likely is town. After SK flipped and mason pair flipped, we knew the setup is:
TTT = 2 Goons + Roleblocker, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof)
However, since scum obviously know the amount of players on their own team, they knew this by the time that SlOosh flipped SK. So they knew there most likely would be extra town roles(since this isn't exactly C9++ we cannot know for sure becasue Dandel said he wouldn't add one-shot roles, however we can do educated guesses).
And btw, holding D1 RB is generally a minor loss to scum due to the fact that there is less information on meta changes and stuff like that. This makes it even harder for scum to try figure out who is blue and who is not.
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holy smokes batman! This Jayguy is sooo scum. Look through his filter. While he does some chitty chat with Hapa, he doesn't actually make a read on him. AT ALL... Untill this post D4.On January 22 2013 10:44 jaybrundage wrote:
Welp Zentor died told that bastard to post >.<
I haven't really thought of hapa much as scum but you guys bring up some good points . His lack of posting is a pretty big warning sign. Also as Ziggler pointed out Hapa hates people lurking and he always does his best to prod the town and push the town and drive discussion This game I havent seen that from him.
Also the fact that hapa hasn't been shot is suspect. However the same can be said of WBG as both are vets that know how to play a good town.
The more I look over hapa the less I see him as town and the more scummy he looks.
However grush is also really scummy his consistent lack of contributing and last day he threw his vote to the side he didn't even want a choice in deciding the lynch candidate. Like what the hell is that?
Im going to have to look things over again. But Iamp is making some good sense.
##Vote Hapahauli
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On January 24 2013 22:58 iamperfection wrote:
as we concluded last night xaltos is town not gonna bother going through his filter. AFAIK, we didn't really conclude Xata being town. But it is very likely due to the fact that he got RB when scum knew there probebly were more blue roles.
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On January 24 2013 23:51 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 23:48 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 24 2013 22:58 iamperfection wrote:
as we concluded last night xaltos is town not gonna bother going through his filter. AFAIK, we didn't really conclude Xata being town. But it is very likely due to the fact that he got RB when scum knew there probebly were more blue roles. this is an educated guessing game after all... very likely concluded same thing. I C WHAT U MEAN:
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On January 25 2013 00:40 iamperfection wrote:
jay and grush are the scum in your view lazer correct?
Why are you not trying to convince me? Case on Jay is comming later when I have time.
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Jay
Well, after really analysing his filter, I must say he looks far far worse than grush.
1. His vote on Hopeless.
All of Jay's votes this far has been super funky. But the one who is by far the most funky is his vote on hopeless. + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2013 11:19 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 10:26 slOosh wrote:
jay, you haven't objectively commented on hopeless. Right now you have him as town because you think I'm scum. That won't do. What about his posts show that he is town? Independent of you being scum voting for hopeless. I have a null tell/leaning townieon Hopeless. He has done some scummy things earlier on. However I think more recent his posting has improved like his reasoning for voting for Ruuch when he thought he might be town does make sense. It shows reasoning and his thought process. SlOosh In the small possibility that you are town. If you could give your reads on everyone and your other scum reads as well, I know that you think Hopeless and WBG are scum is there a third party that appeals to you? We have a whole day left. The more people post and be transparent the better of a chance town has towards winning. Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 10:26 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 17 2013 09:51 jaybrundage wrote:On January 17 2013 09:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
Question the first:
Why did Hapa vote for Ruuch?
Question the second:
Why did I vote for Ruuch?
@Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available?Ill answer these. I think both of you voting for Ruunch was stupid. It was a dumb wagon. He is a completely new at this game. Doesn't know what hes doing. His late vote was completely a null tell. He doesnt know whats scummy and whats townie. He has never had experience playing this game before. He probably felt a bit overwhelmed (hence why he later quit.) So my question to you is why did you vote Ruunch? Also Ziggler why did you decide to vote SlOosh over say WBG or LM or Hopeless? I asked the questions in that manner because my reasons were completely different than Hapa's. I was doing what little I could to save Prom, short of blowing up at the thread and calling everyone stupid, which seems to be the go-to response these days. Hapa on the other hand has been touting his scum-Prom read and all of the sudden feels its a good idea to go after Ruuch as a policy lynch. I won't deny it was a stupid wagon, but I felt it was a better to lose him than Prom. I didn't read Ruuch as scum, I read him as expendable, in comparison to Prom. Hapa trying to equate our votes as being equally scummy: + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2013 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:17 Lazermonkey wrote:Bugs, how do you go from: On January 17 2013 01:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, let's go for it. I actually like Hopeless's thoughts in his last post and Lazer looks much better because he pointed out something that I noticed too; in Hopeless's last game he played somewhat similar to this.
slOosh, on the other hand, is still scum.
##unvote
##vote slOosh to On January 17 2013 04:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright.
I'm feeling lazy so let's just kill Hopeless. I don't think anything is going to happen in the near future to make either read stronger and so it's just best to consolidate our votes rather than continue to inflate the thread with further pointless back-and-forths.
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der In just a couple of hours? And Hopeless didn't even say a thing during this time. Just you talking with Hapa and him calling the thread bad for not wanting to lynch Hopeless. @Hapa: did you read hopeless filter from LVIII? Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively. In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town. Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself. is a massive load of bull. I appreciate your efforts to put words in my mouth, like my "implied" super strong town read of Prom, while simultaneously disregarding Question the First. Furthermore, the "assume you're town" was specifically TO iamperfection because he asked me to explain myself. Are you going to jump down his throat for this post?: On January 16 2013 06:10 iamperfection wrote:
Do you still mantain he is scum?
If he was scum he would have had access to other players in order to coach him. If you look at his posts he is clearly lost and has no clue what he is doing.
Ill have to go back to the vote swaping when I get home because I now know that people were jumping from town to town. Or does he get a free pass because he was speaking about himself? Anyways, it seems I need to look towards self-preservation ##Unvote: Lazermonkey
##Vote: SlOosh
On January 17 2013 10:14 iamperfection wrote:
so what was your reasoning for your town read on me hopeless? Primarily based on Ruuch's limited interactions with the thread. @Hapa given what Hopeless said. Why did you vote for Ruunch? If you thought Prom was scum? On January 18 2013 09:45 jaybrundage wrote:Given that Sloosh was SK. It makes my read of hopeless off. I assumed that sloosh would flip scum which would make Hopeless more likly to be town. But with Sloosh flipping SK it makes Hopeless seem a lot scummier imo. Tmw we should lynch hopeless or lynch grush. His pretty useless and hasn't contributed at all. When he does deem to give his reads. He doesn't follow it with any reasoning. Also Mr.Z i said it before but you gotta step it up. Where is the late game Mr.Z that was promised to me 
2. His interactions with Hapa
self-explanatory + and I did post about this earlier.
3. He doesn't really have any town reads.
Giving out town reads usually isn't alignment indicative. But the way Jay does it, I feel it is. His only real town reads (and by ''real'', I'm excluding stuff like null/slight town shit) were WBG and MrZentor. Both for shit reasons. WBG because he said that it made no sense for both him and SlOosh and WBG to be scum but SlOosh hadn't even flipped at that point. MrZentor because he defended him at the start if D1... I get the impression that he is trying to buddy up with the vets while setting up bandwagons everywhere else.
4. His back and forth with grush
Note that this is actually not that dependant on grush being scum, though it does indeed make him look worse if grush is indeed scum. Basically all game he has got a scum read on grush it seems, yet he doesn't want to vote him nor truly push him. He just keeps on poking him a little bit now and then. Very non-commital. Look at British Empire MM where he had a scum read on Mr.CC and note the big diference compared to this game. In both game he was having a scum read who noone else was really interested in. In British, he kept pushing Mr. CC like a madman. In this game, not so much. Also, why no vote on grush? In British he mentions CC for like the third time ever in the game and BAM, vote right away.+ Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 03:32 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 15:37 Hapahauli wrote:
So regarding Jay's stuff on DP... it doesn't look very good. It looks a lot like he's trying to shovel shit on DP.
After Hero Mini, my view on Jay is that he's lynch-bait, so I'm rather hesitant about lynching him. Right now, I'm unsure how likely his behavior is coming from a "town-Jay." His play on it's face is scummy, but I really need to hear more from him.
@ Jay
What do you make of my newly disclosed town-read on DP? Agree or disagree?
Secondly, your quote accusing DP of assuming I was town was very clearly mis-interpreting his actions (in which he very clearly qualified as only IF I was town). It doesn't look very good. Explain yourself. First off you said you have done this before how many times have you done this tunneling on DP and out of the times you have done it how many times have you been wrong. If you play with DP alot and you can read him consistently then I will reconsider my position. The reason I find him scummy as been said before. Is his flip flopping on Hapa from hes obv completly with out a doubt scum to i have no fucking idea. It seemed to me like scum backing off of a mislynch they were pushing gone wrong. I personally put alot less faith in reading people's reactions to when they are about to be or going to be lynched. The quote was me being frustrated with DP's flip flopping he has gone from scum to town to scum now giving someone townie cred for the possibility of one of his scum reads being town. So yes he did change his opinion on hapa again. I didnt say anything wrong. Also I dont like CC hes doing absolutely nothing this game. He has made some worthless comments about concentrating on finding scum. He was mentioning the DP-Hapa conversations early one with out giving his opinion on him hasn't commentated much on it when DP was doing some scummy stuff. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 11:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
So Xatalos is scummy yo
So now DarthPunk is possibly scum and he provides a quote with a bunch of dem bolded statements to back it up. But didn't Xatalos just say that DP was looking town? That he agreed with a lot of what he had to say? This is a huuuuuge 180 right here. He just felt very comfortable with DP being town. Now he feels uneasy.
Dat 180 on DP. Explain. He makes a case on Xalatos for making a 180 on DP and calls him scummy for it. However when DP does so many 180s on Hapa hes trying to pull off a 900. CC doesn't give it a second thought although DP is doing the samething as Xalatos CC ignores it. CC has played like he has more knowledge on other townies. He would of known if DP and Hapa were town or not so he played accordingly. Also his lack of anything in his filter is really disconcerting. He has said useless 1 liners. And made a case of 180s that were exactly what DP was doing. ##Unvote
##Vote Mr.CheeseCake
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EPT
