WARNING - INCOMING WALL OF TEXT:
+ Show Spoiler +As I've already pointed out, Hapa tried to last-minute Ruuch, and went on to say that my Ruuch-vote was just as scummy as his Ruuch-vote. Not true in the slightest. For reasoning, I refer you to HAPA's own post with Promethelax: On January 14 2013 15:53 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 15:44 Promethelax wrote:On January 14 2013 14:46 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 14 2013 09:44 Promethelax wrote:Thrawn, me no likey your list. Explain it to me, why are each of those four present. Would you really be comfortable lynching any of them? Why do you have a town read on Lazer and SS? you could look through my filter and easily figure out why most of the people are on that list. maybe not hapa, that was "sorta" a random name. and how are you equating that list to me having town reads on lazer and/or super? that doesn't make any sense stop being silly you have a 'not willing to lynch today read on them. I'd call it the same thing basically. I myself have a six man don't lynch list a three man null list and a four man lynch list. My lynch list is just much better than yours. Sloosh, what changed is that I reread the thread, looked into Xat's past and changed my mind. I at first thought he was a scummy looking dude who is always scummy (see Jay) even when town. On looking into him more as a player I decided that his play this game is different from his past, town, games. I knew that since I had earlier stated that I would not vote xat so I used that to pressure you and Hapa to give reasons for your read and to provide a better way for me to read both of you. SS I'm trying really hard to not call anyone fucking stupid. You are making that resolution very hard. Yeah but Prome, what's scummy about your stance on Xatalos is that you have this huge scumread on Supersoft, can't find a single reason that he's town (in your own words), and all of a sudden completely happy with lynching Xatalos. AND Ruuch. It reads like you don't give a crap about who gets lynched. It's not as though Hapa didn't have a strong scumread on Prom either, because he actively tried to disable the Lazermonkey lynch: On January 15 2013 05:48 Hapahauli wrote:I'm not liking a Lazermonkey lynch. He looks like a replacement who's lost and not fully caught up. It's not alignment indicative, and lynching him seems like a coin-flip at best. Right now, we need to lynch the guy that's actually done something scummy - Promethelax. He was convinced SuperSoft was scum all game, then merrily decided he was happy with Xatalos + Ruuch being dead, then now is onto Lazermonkey for being a sheep. Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:26 Promethelax wrote:
hapa, aren't you pressuring weak lynch bait in Xat and Ru? Speaking of players who have vanished for a while what about SloOsh? Why isn't he on your list? He earlier questioned me for going after lynch-bait, and now his top three scumreads are perhaps the biggest lynch-bait in the game. He needs to hang today. Hapa's stance is quoted in red. Now lets look at Lazer's post, and do note the timestamps: On January 15 2013 04:36 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 04:29 Promethelax wrote:
wow, seriously, those are your reads? Terrible.
You said that you had not read the thread while simultaneously building a case on someone who had just been cased and calling him the scummiest person in the thread. That is deeply troubling and very scummy.
There is nothing you have done in this game that makes you feel like a townie. This is a big problem for me since in LVIII I had had you down as quite green thank you so very much.
Your case on jay is weak and in many ways I feel the Chezinu rule applies to him. He is such a weak player that someone making him their main target (if he is town) is very likely to be scum. My reads being terrible in your eyes aren't exactly alignment indicative, right? I may have rephrased myself bad. I did read the thread but I did play a game of HoN in the mean time. That is why the post that isn't actually very long + the fact that the thread was like 20 pages yesterday took me almost 2 hours. Once again you do this, you say my case is bad, yet you don't even mention ONE thing in it that is bad as well as not explaining what part of my play that haven't been similar to LVIII. That, my friend, is bad. Lazer commits himself to the "I've read the thread and I caught up". His filter does in fact read like he'd caught up. Hapa is full of it, and is casually dismissing Lazer? as a "coin-flip" in order to push confirmed-town Promethelax. Ruuch comes in and draws fire, followed closely thereafter by: On January 15 2013 09:07 Hapahauli wrote:
Welp. Sorry prome =/
Ruuch, you need to tell us why that was not a scumclaim. WHAT WHAT WHAT!? SS gets prickly at Hapa for being loud and obnoxious. Note that Hapa hadn't really commented on SS for most of Day 1. He was constantly badgering him with questions and argued with Prom a bit about how Prom dropped his SS-scumread. He had a really wishy-washy post about his read of SS: On January 14 2013 09:11 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 14 2013 09:02 Promethelax wrote:
Hey Hapa y u so scum?
okay now that is out of my system, what do you make of SS? Is there any reason to take him as town? I can't find a single one.
Are you still looking at Xat as scum? If not he who? Xat is the guy I'm most interested in right now. It looks like he's blending in with his vote on a random lynch-bait case (Jay) rather than being productive and scumhunting. I have very conflicting reads on SS, but I'm leaning town on him. Thrawn mentioned that he was a dick in his scum-game in LVIII, but his play seems really over the top for scum. I hate how he's playing it out, but it looks suicidal from a scum-perspective, since he's so willingly ready to make enemies in the thread.My concern is that he's supposedly an accomplished vet, and I'd expect more from him. However, the OMGUS and violence of his play is indicative of a pissed-off townie.
As far as other reads, I'm more concerned with players avoiding the spotlight right now. Ruuch peace'd out of the thread and we haven't heard of him for almost a Day. He is a newbie, but he took a lengthy absence from the thread and has had nothing to contribute to the discussion. Otherwise, nothing very concrete. The amount of time spent asking SS the same questions, and still arriving at a townread looks suspicious. Follow that up with his pursuit of "You lynched for information, you must be scum" and Hapa looks more and more like scum, especially now that SS has flipped town.
Now we arrive at the TUNNEL OF HOPELESSNESS: Initial Case, as part of a nice long list post: + Show Spoiler +On January 16 2013 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:Was going to post this closer to the deadline, but I desperately need sleep and I'll likely be out for several hours. GL HF, and hopefully I'll see you on the other side of the deadline.
Bolded Green = Strong town-read Green = slight-to-moderate town-read Black/Bolded = Null Red = Suspicious, needs to get looked into Bolded Red = Scum
Thrawn - Thrawn has played two scum-games (Mafia LVIII, Mario Mini Mafia), in which he was lurky and really tried to avoid attention. In this game, his activity as well as his voting-shenanigans early in the game are strongly-indicative of a town thrawn. He's not trying to blend in, and his early-game actions match up very well with his recent town-games. MrZentor - He's generally very scared of posting and very self-conscious about his image when he's scum. He's the polar opposite this game. He's playing incredibly similar to his previous two town games (British Mini + Witchcraft Mini), and is even more active and fearless than in those games. WBG - A mix of gut-feeling and the fact that all his posts have made sense. I really liked his post breaking down the votes... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=43#854... and there are certain posts in his filter that look too attention-grabbing to be from a scum player, notably: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
rofl I'm not going to even argue against this.
You guys can lynch who you want.
Also lol @ hopeless. sadly I can't tell whether you're scum trying to appear reasonable or whether you're simply town. Sigh. WBG is a damn-good scum player, so there's certainly a possibility that he is doing what he's doing as scum. I don't think that's the case though. Jaybrundage - Like MrZ, activity is very indicative of Jay's allignment. He's lurk-tastic as scum, but much more open and active as town. He passes the activity test for now, and all his behavior so far seems really typical of town Jay. I'll be worried if he stops posting, but it's unlikely he's scum based on his behavior so far. SloOsh - Probably a slight town-read on the basis that he's making sense and has been assertive about his reads. He did make the initial case on Promethelax on Day 1, but I agreed with it at the time and it didn't seem malicious. He's lurkier than I would like, but that's not a reason to lynch him. I'm interested to see his reads tonight. As WBG said, best to read him based on what cases he's pushing. SuperSoft - I'm torn on his pre-lynch actions. On the one hand, him voting for Promethelax looks really bad, and he seems more obsessed with shooting his SK read rather than the people he's convinced are scum. However, he's an arrogant asshole, and I can rationalize a lot of this from said town mentality. His attitude on Prome for example... Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 09:30 supersoft wrote:
guys i understand, you don't understand my playstyle. That's because I have a long term strategy for more than one cycle. Something most of you are not capable of because of limited brainactivity.
I prefer to sacrificing a prawn in the middle to get it out of the my bishops line rather than a pawn at the side with no reward. ... if anyone can think like that as town, it's probably SuperSoft. I'm generally worried about him because he's supposedly a good player, and then proceeds to vote a town read, and he seems more obsessed with killing the SK than his actual scumreads. I don't see a reason why he's not calling a vigi shot on the guy he's convinced is scum (Lazer). grush - Is grush. I gave my thoughts earlier on him: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 22:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Grush is always going to spontaneously come up with reads or make a sketchy vote regardless of his alignment. What's more telling about his alignment is his attitude. Marv in Hero Mini was talking about how grush tended to be more trolly and antagonistic as scum. Though marv was scum in that game, the read methodology was genuine.
As for grush's attitude, I haven't seen any of his "scum traits" this game, but I just don't have enough of a sample-size to go on. I don't think he's someone one could reliably read 48 hours into the game. I'm mostly interested in seeing how he reacts to you and Jay's case against him.
... Iamperfection - Replacement gets a blank slate. Also pretty happy with this development, considering that iamp has a really easily distinguished scum/town meta. If you see him clam up and have difficulty posting frequently and openly, he's scum. If he's super-spammy, he's town. Xatalos - Also very lynch-baity. I have very conflicting reads on him. He's more active than I've seen him in British Mini Mafia. At the same time, I haven't been thrilled with his Day 1 contributions. I tried to look in more detail through his town meta to see if I could pin down why he could be scum this game, and I can't find anything super-convincing about his alignment one way or the other. I need to see some more reads from him before I make a decision. He's a pretty wishy-washy guy regardless of alignment, so be careful with this one. Lazer - I've been looking over his "scumslip" for some time now. First off, I don't think a slip like that is damning by any measure. Townies can butcher wordings and do stupid things all the time. It's a really really bad idea to lynch him only based on his "slip." That being said, I'm leaning scum on him for the behavioral oddities in his defense (as thrawn pointed out): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=45#896And given how Supersoft worded his "hey scumteam, shoot Hapa" post, it's unlikely that Lazer simply misread things. I do think it's POSSIBLE though, so handle with care. Hopeless - His pre-lynch are extremely scummy. Hopeless shows a shocking level of lynch-apathy that is completely at odds with his town mentality. He votes lazermonkey here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=28#552This is individually fine and dandy, but then there's this post on Promethelax: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:47 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 02:20 slOosh wrote:
Hopeless can you give me your thoughts on Prom's play this game? He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote:
'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it.
In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom. If he gives a town-read on Prome, what is even the point of the bolded section? He doesn't attempt to discredit that viewpoint or even qualify it. He piles suspicion on Prome then gives an arbitrary town-read on him at the end of it. After that, he doesn't attempt to push lazer at all. When he does, he questions Lazer about his Jay read. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
Thrawn, that is very demotivating. You're hurting my feelings. The last time that type of post happened, grush shot me in the back. Please stahp.
@Lazer, I don't think your case on jay shows how what he's done is scummy. Show me. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 03:08 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 03:01 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 15 2013 02:55 Hopeless1der wrote:
Thrawn, that is very demotivating. You're hurting my feelings. The last time that type of post happened, grush shot me in the back. Please stahp.
@Lazer, I don't think your case on jay shows how what he's done is scummy. Show me. You don't think that being non-commital, not giving out a single scum read with the exacption of an OMGUS case is alignment indiactive? He is wish-washy with his comments about several players and avoids to take a clear stance. And what about my two other points Hopeless, you dodged them... Who's scummier, me or jay? Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 03:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
Okay, then go figure out how to convince me jay is scum, because at the moment, I am not convinced. He wants Lazer to convince him that Jay is scum, rather than pushing through the Lazer lynch. Then he stops pushing Lazer and begins pushing MrZ: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? Examples please. I disagree with your statement. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:30 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:27 slOosh wrote:On January 15 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? Examples please. I disagree with your statement. Yo, the guy you are leaning town on is set to be lynched. What are you doing? Im poking Zentor for misrepresenting wbg's filter. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:33 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:31 slOosh wrote:On January 15 2013 07:30 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:27 slOosh wrote:On January 15 2013 07:26 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? Examples please. I disagree with your statement. Yo, the guy you are leaning town on is set to be lynched. What are you doing? Im poking Zentor for misrepresenting wbg's filter. Yea ... because that's the most important thing before one of your town reads is gonna get lynched. If I can show him to be scummier than Prom, then yes, that would be rather useful. ZENTOR, HOP TO IT Then FINALLY, when he's confronted for not pushing the Lazer lynch: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:41 Hopeless1der wrote:
KILL LAZER MONKEY SO SCUM OMG
There, I've hard defended every other player in the game. Gratz He replies sarcastically and is annoyed by the fact that he should be posting a scumread. So Hopeless's play can be characterized by:
1) Not pushing his scumreads
2) Being remarkably unconcerned that his town read is getting lynched (and soft-pushing the Prome lynch)
3) Flinging shit at OTHER players rather than being concerned with the lynch (namely MrZ)Most importantly, make sure you look at Hopeless's town games. Page 3 of his filter in Mario Mini Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&user=123725¤tpage=3Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:52 Hopeless1der wrote:
ZB, how is what debears doing townie at all? He's trying to lynch me for inactivity when I said I was on my way home from work. He's had like 10 desperate posts trying to push me for no other reason than 'he's not here' - This is almost half his entire case on me. Lynch debears. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm voting scum. Screw you all. Hell the entirety of his ChronoTrigger mafia play (as town) is night and day compared to his play this game. I need not pick specific examples, just read it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&user=123725 The big things I want to respond to are: My "piling suspicion" on Prom: - Yes, it did look bad. Prom "invented" reasons to unvote SS, but guess what, they BOTH flipped town. The way I saw it, Prom either found town-traits from meta-reading SS, or he never wanted to push him in the first place. I didn't know which one, but the way that Prom held onto his 'another dude, to talk about later', I felt his case on SS was more to draw attention than to push a scumread. Improper use of meta, which Hapa acknowledges himself: + Show Spoiler +On January 17 2013 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:17 Lazermonkey wrote:Bugs, how do you go from: On January 17 2013 01:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, let's go for it. I actually like Hopeless's thoughts in his last post and Lazer looks much better because he pointed out something that I noticed too; in Hopeless's last game he played somewhat similar to this.
slOosh, on the other hand, is still scum.
##unvote
##vote slOosh to On January 17 2013 04:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright.
I'm feeling lazy so let's just kill Hopeless. I don't think anything is going to happen in the near future to make either read stronger and so it's just best to consolidate our votes rather than continue to inflate the thread with further pointless back-and-forths.
##unvote
##vote Hopeless1der In just a couple of hours? And Hopeless didn't even say a thing during this time. Just you talking with Hapa and him calling the thread bad for not wanting to lynch Hopeless. @Hapa: did you read hopeless filter from LVIII? Yes I did. However that's only one game out of the multitude of his recent town games in which he played very aggressively. In addition, I can't rationalize his stance on iamp from a town perspective: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=52#1022Votes Ruuch, afks for the entire night cycle, comes back and says he thinks iamperfection is town for no reasoning, then proceeds to make arguments against me based on the "assumption" of iamp being town. Furthermore, he stated that he didn't understand my reasoning for voting Ruuch, which is incredibly scummy considering that he voted Ruuch himself. He keeps coming back to that "assumption", its like going "SCUMSLIP, KILL IT", it isn't meaningful. My assumption doesn't portray a scum motive or mindset (in my heavily biased opinion). He also IGNORED a game where my current play matched closer to a more recent game, but dismissed it. I feel that Hapa would have pointed out the similarities and explained why he felt I was scummier overall, instead of skating over (or completely disregarding) my town-play in other games that match this one.
On January 17 2013 02:53 Hapahauli wrote:No guys, we're lynching Hopeless today. Not SloOsh. Show nested quote +Hapa especially had his vote in scummy places. Assuming of course that you are town, he swapped off of his scumread onto an unknown for policy like reasons. Super was the one who had to put his foot down and say fuck you all, we kill the guy we were going to kill. I don't think Ruuch was scum, so swapping off Prom (town) onto Ruuch (I think town) looks really scummy to me. Hapa fits that bill. How could he assume that someone is town? It makes no sense from a town perspective. He can't be the cop with a green check on iamp, since the cop is dead. Can't be mason buddies with iamp, since this happened: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
Better than Prom
##Unvote: Lazermonkey
##Vote: Ruuch Solution? Hopeless is scum. He went from: a) Voting Ruuch b) Unsubstantiated town read on Iamp: Show nested quote +I'm more inclined to believe bugs and Ruuch(Lamp) are town, so right now my choices to vote are Lazer and SlOosh, and possibly Hapa for no other reason than his vote was in scummy places. c) Assumes that iamp is town.
@ IampShow nested quote +On January 17 2013 00:29 iamperfection wrote:
@ hapa
Why do you have a strong town read on Mr. Zentor based on meta when he said before the game he was changing his style. When i read his filter i dont see many town like traits.
He shirked his vote responsibility when he voted prom.
He hasnt pushed many scum reads at all,
He keeps screaming meta as his defense when he said before the game he would change it
... MrZ is lurk-tastic as scum. He is not lurk-tastic here. I got a very strong town feel for MrZ in the early game when he was driving a majority of the discussion. In his scum games, he very deliberately tries to avoid the spotlight. His early-game play is the opposite of that mentality. Furthermore, everything you mentioned above is the exact same thing he's done in his last two town games (Witchcraft + British Mini), both of which I was in. This is the exact same pattern, and I strongly believe he's town. As for him "wanting to change his meta," he was more active in the early game and generated more discussion than in any game I've been in with him. That's townie to me. Hapa pulls this word "assume" and makes an ass out of himself. If I don't have information and I need to get to a conclusion, I make an assumption, state that assumption, and continue with my argument. In this case, that assumption was that a player in the game (Ruuch/iamperfection) was town. I had reasoning for that read and while not concrete, it lent credence to my read against Hapa and just generally made sense to me. Ruuch did not read as scum, both from the way he posted at the end of Day 1 and how he swiftly replaced out. Hapa pounces on this hard, not to defend himself against my accusation, but to tear down my credibility by saying my argument holds no weight due to the fact that I made an assumption in the first place.
By the way, another list post On January 17 2013 03:48 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 03:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
well, let's talk about it.
You seem to be "not convinced" that slOosh is scum. Then, we are looking at TWO additional scum, not just one. So, who? I don't want to lynch Hopeless just to have him flip town and then have to start all over again like we had to do today. Chances are strong that if we don't talk now about these types of possibilities we won't be able to later.
ignoring Zentor's activity, what makes him town? What's your opinion on grush? Lazer? If I had to pick two right now, I'd say SloOsh/Grush I have reasons to think everyone else is town. Iamperfection is being active and open, which is indicative of his town-play (especially this early after replacing in). Whether or not he sustains this activity will be how I ultimately read him, but so far he's being townie. Jay is also more active than I'd expect from his scum-play. MrZ is also being active and open. The things that people find "scummy" about him (early town reads, lack of pushing reads) are completely normal for his town-play. It's the attention-grabbing in the early-game that really makes me think he's town. The early town-reads, him drawing attention to himself through his activity... these aren't things that scum MrZ does. Xata is gunning for you WBG, and I find that horrendously brave for a scum to do. Especially for him. Lazer was pushed by Hopeless for most of the game. Outside his "slip" or whatever, I can't find any reasons that he's scum. Thrawn's early game voting and attention grabbing is indicative of his town play. And you WBG have been one of the more active and concerned players in recent days. CHECK THAT OUT! Remember the last list post? The one where he found a reason OTHER than the scumslip to suspect Lazer? Go look, I'll wait. .... ... .. + Show Spoiler +Yeah I thought you'd be lazy, so here you go: Lazer - I've been looking over his "scumslip" for some time now. First off, I don't think a slip like that is damning by any measure. Townies can butcher wordings and do stupid things all the time. It's a really really bad idea to lynch him only based on his "slip." That being said, I'm leaning scum on him for the behavioral oddities in his defense (as thrawn pointed out): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=45#896And given how Supersoft worded his "hey scumteam, shoot Hapa" post, it's unlikely that Lazer simply misread things. I do think it's POSSIBLE though, so handle with care. That's reverse connection analysis to defend a sucmbuddy people. Here's some more if you don't believe me: On January 17 2013 03:26 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 03:17 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 17 2013 03:13 Hapahauli wrote:
Apparently no one does any thinking either, if we're going to lynch someone over Hopeless today. I'd agree with that too, given that both thrawn and zentor simply swapped their votes over to slOosh as soon as I did. I think both slOosh and Hopeless are good lynches for today. If they are both scum, and it's certainly possible, who does that leave us with for a third scum? Grush? If one of them is not? My first concern is seeing Hopeless hang, and then we'll find the rest. SloOsh could be scum based on how he handled himself last night (flinging shit at you, willingness to compromise on Hopeless), but I'm not convinced. As for a 3rd, I have no idea. I was originally thinking Lazer, but given how hard Hopeless decided to push him, I don't think that's realistic.
+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2013 10:05 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 09:08 Hopeless1der wrote:
...
Question the second:
Why did I vote for Ruuch? This is a really really good question. Why did you vote for Ruuch? Let's examine things. Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 08:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
Better than Prom
##Unvote: Lazermonkey
##Vote: Ruuch You voted him because you thought he had more chance to flip scum than Prom. This would imply that you had a really really strong town-read on Prom. Your strong town-read? Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:47 Hopeless1der wrote:On January 15 2013 02:20 slOosh wrote:
Hopeless can you give me your thoughts on Prom's play this game? He has asked a lot of questions and generally follows them up. They don't appear to be useless and he seems to have read British Empire, which he didn't play in. He's going out of his way to interact with people, like asking you (sloosh) about xat's play in Paranoia, which again he didn't play in or me about my "policy", as discussed in an obs qt. In short, he's active and paying attention, pursuing information from outside of this game where possible. His "swapping" his stance on Xata was deliberate and pre-meditated to me, as evidenced by his post here: On January 14 2013 10:36 Promethelax wrote:
'my side' of this issue is the same as yours. I find Xata scummy, I jsut wanted to get better reads on both you and hapa and your targeting fo Xat was a great way to do it.
In paranoia Xat is wishy washy and terrible but he is also very try-hard, as he was in british. He I'm not getting that same vibe here and I am happy to lynch him today. My short list of lynchables (like lunchables but with more murder) are Xatalos, Ruuch, SuperSoft and another dude. We'll talk about him later. Further to the above, I don't recall him ever taking a proper stance on Xatalos until this post. His unvote of SS is sketchy, especially what Hapa pointed out, with the unvote reasons having nothing to do with the initial voting reasons. His case against Lazer, and followup to that are much stronger than his push against SS, which makes me wonder if his heart was ever in pushing SS to begin with. I'm leaning town on Prom. You were leaning town on Prom. You had a weak town-read on Prom. Yet despite "leaning town" on Prome, you adopted a stance of being willing to lynch pretty much anyone but him. You knew he was going to flip town, and you distanced yourself from his lynch. But once again, if you had a town-read on Prome, what's the purpose of all the bolded stuff? You had a town-read on Prome, yet half of your post flung shit at him. None of that makes any sense.
Show nested quote +@Lamp: Do you find my read of you suspicious, based on the posting, and circumstances surrounding the replacement, of Ruuch? By which I mean, do you think it is conceivable that I would arrive at a townread of you based on the limited information available? You still have not explained how you arrived at your town-read on Iamp. In fact I can't for the life of me figure out how you garnered a strong-enough townread on, given that Iamp had made 11 posts at the time you gave him a town-read. And it's not a weak town-read either - it's apparently strong enough to make you "assume" he's town in your analysis. That's complete bullshit. I put forth the question about why Hapa and I voted for Ruuch. He takes the opportunity to shit all over me, but refrains from commenting on his own reasoning (See Spoiler above). Thanks for putting words in my mouth, Hap.
On January 18 2013 04:56 Hapahauli wrote:@ LazerShow nested quote +On January 18 2013 03:17 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 18 2013 03:16 thrawn2112 wrote:scumslip On January 18 2013 03:06 Lazermonkey wrote: I am reading the game intensly and the reason I haven't been posting too to much the last two days is because I felt that I wasn't in danger of getting lynched so I've been spending more time reading filters rather than spending time to defend myself against retarded stuff like scum slips.
He feels that he doesn't need to post that much. Why? Because he felt that he wasn't in danger of getting lynched. and as mentioned. if you had been studying the thread for 48 hours you would be able to talk about your reads on the spot, when asked to do so. My main scum read died N1 you know. I had to reevaluate my reads alot after that. Can you explain how you changed your reads though? Telling us that you "re-evaluated" doesn't do much, especially when you voted WBG on Day 1, and are so willing to follow him right now. I can't figure out where your town-read on WBG came from. You went from this on Day 1/Night 1: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 08:42 Lazermonkey wrote:
##Vote: WBG
It's never too late... Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 23:41 Lazermonkey wrote:WBG, do you mind explaining this?
Hapa, thrawn, and slOosh I basically have auto-town reads on. I hope they don't turn into the sciberbias of this game. (I had an auto-town read on Prom too)
What is an auto-town read? And what is sciberbias? He is a player afaik, so I guess it has to do with something he done in a game in the past. To your town-read today: Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 02:45 Lazermonkey wrote:On January 18 2013 02:39 thrawn2112 wrote:On January 18 2013 02:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I'm killing SlOosh tonight. WBGs post about the timestamps + how he avoided to vote is convincing enough for me to vote him.
##Vote: SlOosh who do you think is scum, and who do you want to lynch? pretend the lynch is completely your choice and give me 2 candidates based on your own thoughts. SlOosh. I'm not too sure of the next two players as my main scum target died tonight... However, I'm quite sure the two remaining scum are among Hapa grush Xata Jay Iamp MrZentor. Show nested quote +On January 18 2013 02:38 Lazermonkey wrote:
Okay, I'm killing SlOosh tonight. WBGs post about the timestamps + how he avoided to vote is convincing enough for me to vote him.
##Vote: SlOosh ...and you never give any explanation for it in your filter. Oh shit you guys, he's getting ready to bus Lazer, watch out. You know what else is cool? Lazer has a townread on ME. HAHA SOMEONE READS ME AS TOWN OMFG! Hapa doesn't want to discuss that with Lazer?
Also, funny sidenote, I told Hapa to go away: On January 19 2013 09:49 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2013 09:47 Hapahauli wrote:On January 19 2013 09:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'm confirmation biased, and have yet to properly make a case, so feel free to call this OMGUS until I substantiate:
##Vote: Hapahauli
Still willing to lynch Lazer. Translation: "Since I haven't bothered to do so yet, I need to look through Hapa's filter and fling as much shit at him as I can." Go away scum. And he did. trololol. P.S. My vote is still on Hapa. I'll move it to Lazer if that would appease anyone.
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On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote:
Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet.
Thanks, champ...
On January 20 2013 06:43 Xatalos wrote:
Now martyring.... I don't think any sane town would hide most of their reads and then stop posting like that. This only kills discussion and makes this day less useful. As town, he would at least try to make this day more useful. Clearly that's not the case here.
You think allowing my top scumread to ignore me is useful? No one wants to talk about it, no one gives it a second glance. Bugs takes the time to LOL at me:
On January 20 2013 04:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol is Hopeless's argument against the RB claims REALLY "what if there is a town RB"?
Here's a fact: if you are a town RB, I expect you to claim right the fuck now.
It's far likelier that scum have RB, not town. The RBs in this context make much more sense, particularly given that a confirmed SK called Xata blue. If any town RBed Xata following that then they are incredibly retarded. Hopeless is stupid for missing this in the first place, and IMO it cements the notion that he is scum.
OH WAIT I FERGOT
On January 20 2013 06:29 wherebugsgo wrote:
BTW I mentioned a town RB targeting Xata/Hapa being dumb but a JK on those same targets would not be, so my previous assessment didn't mention that. Because of that we can't really tell too much from the RB claims IMO.
Fuck you too you dumb motherfucker.
I want Hapa or Lazer lynched today. Prom wanted Lazer, as did SS. Guess which other confirmed town found Lazer scummy?
On January 19 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote:Tomorrow town should put a lot of focus on hopeless and lazermonkey with special emphasis on lazermonkey. both lynches people have actively pushed for his lynch and it just couldn't happen. yes, "town" have been lynched both times so that's not proof that lazer is scum, but the fact that lazer has been so scummy and not been lynched should be more than enough to convince you to at least go back through filters and read stuff that's been written about him. Here's D1 votecount: Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 08:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Cakecount:
Xatalos (1): jaybrundage
Promethelax (6): slOosh, Hapahauli, thrawn2112, grush57, MrZentor, Xatalos
Lazermonkey (3): Promethelax, Hopeless1der, supersoft
MrZentor (1): wherebugsgo
Not Voting (2): Ruuch, lazermonkey
Currently, Promethelax is set to be lynched!
Less than an hour left until the deadline.
PM me or CC if I dun screwed up the count.
Remember - you must vote! I'm using the last votecount before ruuch entered the thread. 2 people on lazer's wagon were confirmed town. That plus EVERYTHING that's happened since N1 should be more than enough to reason to hang lazermonkey. Just go back and read the exchange I had with him where he was completely unable to talk about reads, other than the read he was sheeping. (also interesting to mention that lazer was sheeping wbg, even tho wbg was one of the very few people it looked like lazer might be suspicious of.) The small amount he posted earlier today was scummy.. his most recent conclusion/insight is that hopeless and xatalos are probably not both scum. How is this helpful at all? It's the latest in a long pattern of lazermonkey making no attempt at all to scumhunt. Hapa is also one to worry about. D1 he pushed to lynch prom, then abandoned his scumread to vote for ruuch. If hapa turns out to be scum, I don't think that will say anything about ruuch's alignment. If ruuch is scum, he would have been a great buss opportunity. In N1 and D2 hapa tunneled hopeless the majority of the time.... but I don't remember him actually trying too hard to get hopeless lynched or entering into other conversations. I think wbg is town but you should pay attention to how well he contributes towards lynching scum from here on out. Same thing applies to hapa. everyone else I don't really have any relevant thoughts about.
But does anyone re-visit the past like they're supposed to? How am I supposed to convince you to go after Lazer if everything has already been addressed? How am I supposed to get more than 1 person lynched at a time? I have yet to get any contribution from anyone regarding my scumread on Hapa (Hapa you don't count, no hard feelings, but I think you're scum). I try to present something fresh to the thread and I get promptly ignored and/or called stupid. There will be yet another case on Lazer, either later tonight or tomorrow morning.
In the meantime:
HEY TOWN, SHEEP YOUR DEAD BRETHREN, KILL LAZERMONKEY.
##Unvote: Hapahauli
##Vote: Lazermonkey
On January 20 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 20 2013 06:41 iamperfection wrote:
Hapa adresss his case in full so the idiot dosent have an excuse for being quiet. The thing is, most of the reason he's "suspicious" of me is because of association with lazer. Which is nonsensical. Because if this is the case, why the fuck is he voting me instead of Lazer? "Lazer is scum, therefore I'm going to vote someone who's scum by association!" - this is not a town mentality.
Otherwise, he pretty much looked through my filter and shoveled shit on anything he could find. Of note: My vote on Ruuch - I explained this earlier: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955¤tpage=60#1191My stance on SS - Hopeless says that me changing my mind on SuperSoft is scummy on day one. Given the volatility of Day 1 play and reads, this is absurd. I questioned him a bunch, and him completely and openly ignoring me, coupled with is confrontational attitude in general made me lean town on him for most of Day 1. Hopeless's OMGUS - Basically Hopeless accuses me of "shitting all over him" and mis-interpreting his Meta. As for "shitting all over him" - it's called making cases and scum-hunting. As for his meta, Hopeless asserts that his play in Mafia LVIII was similar to his play here, and that I willfully ignored it. I wasn't in that game so I wasn't familiar with it. I reasonably drew on the two games I played with Hopeless in recent memory (Mario Mini + CT Mafia) in which he played completely differently. As for Mafia LVIII, one game he played passively as town doesn't outweight all the other games he aggresively played as town. In addition, WBG mentioned that he (hopeless) played as he did in LVIII due to time constraints. He had no such excuse here. But Hopeless acts like meta is a large part of my case. It isn't. He treats iamp/ruuch as town for questionable reasons, he soft-pushed the Prome lynch and is brushing it off like it's no big deal, he's had Lazer as a scum-read all game and has been zealously pushing OTHER targets all game , some by pre-flip associations with his top scumread.
I didn't go after you just because of the Lazer association. For proof, look at the three things you address in the quoted post. However you're right, there is a lot of associative stuff in there, so I suppose I'll go finish the job of getting Lazer lynched and then I'll just repost my case when he flips scum, cool?
I maintain that you're vote on Ruuch is way worse than my own. Your explanation is insufficient when compared to your own reasoning for reading SS as scum.
I had no excuse about "time constraints" in LVIII either. The excuse I think bugs is referring to was my defense against Lazer that game, where I cited LVII as a game where I was significantly more active and useful. Not due to having more time, but because I was just doing stuff in the thread more. I still was generally lurky, but more useful overall.
As for me pushing "other" candidates, from the time I started with Lazer I pushed
- Lazer as a scumread
- Ruuch as a "NOT Prom, please not Prom" read
- Pressured, but never pursued Zentor
- slOosh for self-preservation reasons, while still maintaining Lazer is scum
- WIFOM`d my vote back onto Lazer
- You
- Xata
My top reads are you and Lazer. You're my more pressing concern because you are a huge factor in getting me lynched, and since I have a scumread on you in addition to Lazer, I have every reason to try to get you lynched for it. I assume (omg that word) I'm going to die, so my association suspicions are already in the thread. Town isn't going to get another chance in the event I die, so it becomes more important to peg the entire team as the game progresses, especially given that I'm likely to get lynched before you.
Great timing btw, going out again =\
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EPT
