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Sup dudes. I've been at this game, trying to figure shit out using some new shit I'm crafting up. I'm going to share my gdocs that show my thoughts in this game. Keep in mind that this is up to page 17, I haven't read a word since then:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArG6Xu_t6zoQdDRBcVdmdVlfcWx1T21YQmlQNmx1VUE#gid=0
Now, these thoughts in these docs are guaranteed to serve a town-oriented purpose. I'm glad that I am replacing as town so I can actually use these to town's advantage. Basically, the conclusions I've had are:
hapa is pretty town. Like seriously, I will idol you if you are scum.
DP and Mr.Z are likely town.
Xatalos is most definitely scum.
one of yamato/cheesecake/ is likely scum.
These are preliminary thoughts up until my read at page 17. Give me a moment while I catch up on earlier pages.
Now that that's outta the way, sup yall! Any questions anyone has on anything?
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Allright, caught up.
What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post:
On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game
His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it?
Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from.
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@Mr.CC
On January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different?
Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play?
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@yamato
I want you to answer what you think of the cheesecake man. You voted for him for no good reason, or at least no reason you felt like explaining. You justified your vote on CC as being a pressure vote (which clearly didn't look like one).
Later on, you said your vote on him was to get a better read on him. If this is true, where is your better read of him? Why are you not commenting on CC? Do you think he is scum? I want to understand your thought process.
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On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such.
Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^
I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously.
He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today.
What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing?
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Also I want to delay this day for longer than 72h.
I'm not sure exactly how many hours has elapsed since the beginning, but this doesn't feel so much like the end of day one. I still don't feel comfortable with a lynch. Especially considering how inactive this town is, imo.
@Hapa
Update me to your thoughts on the game after reading my spreadsheet, if you would. I'm loving how much discussion you are creating this game.
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On January 06 2013 16:01 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing? I've been serious about the use of my vote this game. At the time I made the posts, I felt that putting my vote on them was a good action to take. I have not, however, been advocating a quick lynch. You don't see me posting about being impatient and wanting people to die. To draw a similarity between the two is silly at best. What I want to know is how you have a different read on he and I if we've supposedly done the same thing this game.
Serious? Explain to me how your hapa vote was serious? Explain to me how your CC vote was serious? I've had a town read on mr.Z because, again, he's been very open with his thoughts.
You haven't.
Your town play is characterized by pressuring people and making reads of your own, and you are very transparent as well. Right here I'm getting the opposite. You don't give any reasons for anything you are doing. CC is an example. Hapa, another (sorry if I don't buy your explanation, especially now that you are actually that your vote on hapa was serious).
Not to mention your early game shenanigans. Yuck.
Also, you said earlier that mr. CC screamed bad to you. Where are your thoughts behind it? Why did it scream bad?
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On January 06 2013 16:09 Hapahauli wrote:
Oooh an active replacement will be a nice change of pace - welcome Z-Bo!
Catching up on things right now. To clarify about spreadsheet - was that made before you knew you were replacing in>?
Yes, I was obsing this game on my own (much like on LVIII before I decided to get in the obs qt), trying out different ways of taking notes. I knew that I was getting replaced like 5 min before DYH posted the message on the forum.
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On January 06 2013 16:01 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:56 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 06 2013 15:48 yamato77 wrote:
Also, hello Z-Boson.
I see you have a town read on MrZ, care to explain why? I don't think he's town and honestly he's been favoring the scummier path of action this game what with his impatience and such. Finally, a living soul around these part! Hi there ^^ I agree that Mr.Z has very few good looking posts, I've read somewhere that his meta isn't one to be taken too seriously. He has also been open with his thoughts, if you look at my spreadsheet. He's not a particular strong town read, but I don't want to lynch into him today. What I don't understand is that you are finding him to be scum for the very same actions that you yourself took! You took a vote at CC. You took a vote at hapa. I find it hypocritical for you to use that sole fact for judging someone scum. Why is Mr.Z scum for placing his vote non-seriously if thats the same thing you are doing? Hey Z-Boson Wanna kill CC with me :3
Hi there jay! I don't think he's as scummy anymore as my spreadsheet suggests, but I wanna see what he has to say and have a nice little chat with him.
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Also, jay, tell me more about CC, why do you want him dead? Is it solely because he's not making cases?
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Xatalos, looking at your filter, I cannot understand what on Earth is your stance on CC and mrZentor.
Regarding CC:
On January 07 2013 00:52 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!". Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical. The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking. Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games.
When before this, you had this to say about him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486
I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss...
Which makes no sense to me. You didn't have a strong scum read on him initially, but you were ready to vote him. Now, without saying anything other than "he's posting townish lately", you want to lynch him.
If he's such a conflicting read, why aren't you prodding him? Why aren't you commenting on jay's case on him?
On mrZ, your very first post addresses how mrZ looks scummy. You also say this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#147
Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content.
But from your filter, it is a scumread you are not pursuing at all. You've had no interactions with him that tell me you are trying to better read him more. Your stance is that you are having difficulty making reads this game or whatever. Then you make a case on ShiaoPi, weakly accusing him of a pressure vote.
To me it looks like you are just following the thread trend and seeing what sticks. (CC being town, DP being scum but then being town, mrZ looking town, etc.), and I don't like it.
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Jay, please answer this, if you are serious about CC.
On January 06 2013 16:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, jay, tell me more about CC, why do you want him dead? Is it solely because he's not making cases?
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On January 06 2013 16:47 yamato77 wrote:
Does that answer your question, Z-Bo?
I find your reasoning pretty meh, but it makes sense.
What are your thoughts on ShiaoPi?
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@ShiaoPi
I like your recent spur of activity, but it stands out that you haven't taken a stance much this game. You recently voted Xatalos, which was mostly because he made a bad case. Is he still scum to you? Who else do you find scummy if not for him?
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Yea I have no idea how to read mrZ
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Said he was likely town earlier, but on second thought he doesn't really seem interested in the game and has not said anything yet. Hapa, can you explain your town read on MrZ a little better?
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On January 07 2013 02:39 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 02:06 Z-BosoN wrote:Xatalos, looking at your filter, I cannot understand what on Earth is your stance on CC and mrZentor. Regarding CC: On January 07 2013 00:52 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter. I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. Well, you did say stuff like "I cannot even fathom how you critisize me for putting a vote on Rise as pressure when he had done jackshit at that moment". It appeared to me as if you were not actually pressuring RiseAgain but still claiming to have done so. I'm not particularly fond of claiming "townie points" for oneself without actually deserving them, it just feels scummy at worst and uncomfortable at best. Especially when the "pressure" vote is surrounded with remarks like "hey, this is just a throwaway vote, but look I'm doing something!". Ah yeah, I missed that mention about DP. It certainly makes your actions more logical. The problem I'm having is: I can't convince myself of anyone having a *high* probability of flipping red. Sadly it seems like this first lynch is going to be somewhat random at this point... That leads me to think the lynch should be someone lurky and non-beneficial to the discussion, but you've been quite active lately and your responses to my pressure don't seem scummy (except the fast and furious counter-vote after my case on you...). In addition, I don't like lynching someone who generates discussion D1, since that'll cut down the discussion and let the lurkers continue lurking. Mr. Cheesecake hasn't looked all that bad lately, so I'm contemplating yamato77. It's a bit unfair because of his busy schedule, but the fact is, he hasn't done much so far (except suspecting MrZentor, a quite easy and passive target). I'm certainly not leaning town on you or Mr. Cheesecake though. It's just that I'm having a very hard time making scumreads in this game especially compared to my newbie games. When before this, you had this to say about him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... Which makes no sense to me. You didn't have a strong scum read on him initially, but you were ready to vote him. Now, without saying anything other than "he's posting townish lately", you want to lynch him. If he's such a conflicting read, why aren't you prodding him? Why aren't you commenting on jay's case on him? On mrZ, your very first post addresses how mrZ looks scummy. You also say this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#147Well, I'm not really sure how MrZentor is so easy to read... I'm having extreme difficulties reading him. And I've played with him in two games before too. It shouldn't be too hard to fake some joke posts, right? Especially with his general low activity and lack of any content. But from your filter, it is a scumread you are not pursuing at all. You've had no interactions with him that tell me you are trying to better read him more. Your stance is that you are having difficulty making reads this game or whatever. Then you make a case on ShiaoPi, weakly accusing him of a pressure vote. To me it looks like you are just following the thread trend and seeing what sticks. (CC being town, DP being scum but then being town, mrZ looking town, etc.), and I don't like it. I think my stance on MrZentor has been pretty clear. I originally had a slight scumread on him, but after some discussion with him and considering his meta, I've been leaning town on him for quite a while. I've also said that many times. Mr. Cheesecake is a tougher one to figure out for me. I really dislike his early posting, but he started being fairly active and engaged at some point. He hasn't posted for a while now though. I'm torn, and it's not helping that he hasn't been posting for quite some time. I'm contemplating a lynch of ShiaoPi or yamato77. I didn't really get a scummy feeling from my back-and-forth with ShiaoPi earlier, so yamato77 might be a better choice. He might improve his contributions after his RL issues are solved though, so it's not easy to decide. Mr. Cheesecake isn't out of the question either. What I need now is some kind of a sign or clue about who would be the right choice. Unfortunately I'm in a different timezone than most here, so not that much is happening while I'm online :/
It's difficult to keep track of your thoughts because you change your mind way too much, and often without proper reasoning.
For example, from your filter I've noted that you haven't interacted with Jay much at all. He's a town read to you:
On January 06 2013 02:54 Xatalos wrote:
Why do you see jaybrundage as scummy? I'm not sold on that. He made some good points about ShiaoPi and offered his opinions pretty casually - I don't get the feeling he was unwilling to talk about anything.
And he wants to lynch CC. If you are a townie who has difficulty reading CC, why are you not discussing him with another one of your town reads? It's much more comfortable saying "ah he was scummy but now he's townie" and not doing anything about it.
Also, I'm not so sure what to make of your interaction with shiaoPi. You begin strongly by noting how he has taken little stances in this game (which is true), but you back off a bit too easily:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=26#506
You thought Shiaopi's vote on DP was not a pressure vote, but now he's convinced you it was a pressure vote (in a way which I want you to be more clear about), and that also manages to refute your earlier point on Shiao not taking stances. Explain these two points to me, which are a bit hazy in logic, and why you would still lynch into Shiao despite it all.
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On January 07 2013 02:34 MrZentor wrote:The four main suspects are Mr. CC, Shiaopi, Yamato, and Xatalos. Mr. CC + Show Spoiler +He's probably town, and there are two main reasons for me to think that. 1. He's carefree and open, especially during the opening of the game. On January 04 2013 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Mr.Z we're masoned you dummy. ShiaoPi obv scum right? On January 05 2013 10:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey yeah yeah yeah Hey yeah, I said HEY! What's going on?!
Home from my shift and such. Reading the shitfest that is DP-Hapa (kind of sounds like a porno) interaction atm and catching up.
Questions, people, questions. Anyone? On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? 2. Two of the other suspects targeted him early in the game. Although it is possible one of them was faking this aggression, it is unlikely, because of all the risks that come with it. If the scum faking aggression toward Mr.CC gets lynched and doesn't do a good job of faking it, then it will be obvious that Mr. CC is scum with him. On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:
Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said?
Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target.
CC is scummy.
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. From Xatalos. It is possible that he is scum with ShiaoPi, but I find this unlikely considering his early game behavior. Yamato + Show Spoiler +His early game play seems a lot like an earnest, noobie townie. On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not sure how the logic is strange.
You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time.
You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic.
I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? On January 06 2013 00:06 yamato77 wrote:
I will admit I'm not paying as much attention to this game as I should.
Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion.
I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie?
No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game.
Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. Also, the way he pushes me makes me think he's a noob townie. I would expect newer players to think I'm scum, because of a lot of the things I do are obviously scummy. On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Xatalos + Show Spoiler +He is pretty uptight, but he makes some good points in his massive cases; he and ShiaoPi are equally likely to be scum. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example:
In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
ShiaoPi + Show Spoiler +Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. He parks his vote on a lurker. On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please!  But he also waffles over Xatalos, which makes me think he could be town. On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Who we should lynch. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know which one we should lynch, but I know what we should do if each one is lynched.
.....................................Xatalos.................................................................................................Shiaopi............
................................../.....................\........................................................................................./..........\............
........................flips scum..........flips town..................................................................flips scum.....flips town...........................
...........................|............................|............................................................................./...............................\..................................
......find scum partner..............lynch Shia.....................................................lynch MrCC..............lynch Xatalos-.flips.scum .....
................................................../............\....................................................../..................\..............................|........................|
.....................................flips town......flips scum.............................flips scum............flips town...........flips town.......find scum
....................................|.................................|.....................................|............................|........................../.......................partner
...start suspecting people......................lynch MrCC....................win..............start suspecting people....................
...like Hapa and Boson............................/...............\.........................................like Hapa and Boson
..........................................................flips scum.......flips town...........................................................................................
........................................................./............................|...................................................................
....................................................win...................start suspecting people.....................................
............................................................................like Hapa and Boson.....................................
Surprisingly avid post. Note, however, that two town mislynches is most likely GG, if no shots are stopped.
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On January 07 2013 03:08 MrZentor wrote:
Yeah, I'm having a lot of difficulty reading the four of you, which is why I said for a long time that I'd be fine with any of you dying.
And people who push for my lynch are almost always scum. :/
idk
Just to be clear on where you stand on Yamato. People who push your lynch are almost always scum, but not him, because of how he's pushing it?
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On January 07 2013 03:12 MrZentor wrote:
I'm pretty sure it's all wrong.
##Unvote: Hapahauli
##Vote: Yamato
haha, what exactly changed your mind?
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On January 07 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
Regarding MrZ, I looked into his meta when I was playing with him in Witchcraft. He's always fairly trolly, but there's such a huge difference in activity level between his scum and town metas. He's much more scared to post as scum, and to a noticeable extreme at that.
He's someone I'm not considering for lynching today.
However, there are definitely things that are "off" about his game-play this game. For example, he seems to not give much of a shit about who gets lynched as long as someone dies. Even in Witchcraft Mini, he seemed to care more about lynch decisions. While I would find this horrendously scummy for other players, this is well within the bounds of what town MrZ would do. It's also Day 1 in an instant-lynch game, so I feel his pain in a way.
I see. And what do you make of the Xatalos/ShiaoPi exchange?
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Oh, and I agree about mr.Z, for now. Right now I want to be lynching into Xatalos/yamato, but I'd like to hear what they have to say first.
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On January 07 2013 03:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:42 Z-BosoN wrote:@Mr.CCOn January 06 2013 09:39 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 06 2013 09:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw CC, you mind building a case on Xatalos? He may be indecisive, but I don't see how it's scummy. Tbh I think everyone was overstating my read on Xatalos. My original "case" was just a read post with vote pressure and it kind of got blown out of proportion both by myself and others. Allow me to rationalize why his indecision struck me so: Oats as scum in XXXII. I caught him flip flopping his read on Yamato so hard and lynch him for it. Xatalos did the same thing by contradicting himself within the frame of ~20mins with only 1 post from you inbetween. I'm starting to realize the two situations are different (as scum are more refined in these non-newbie games). But my concern stands that he's only really done that the entire game so far; saying he could be scum because this, but it could also be town. My experience with such play has been that it is scum.Tell me: Is it different? Can you please elaborate on the bolded? Yamato is a newbie, whether he's in a newbie game or not. Why would "flip-flopping" be a characteristic of a more refined scum play? Uhhh Z-bo I'm not even talking about Yamato in this passsage. I'm talking about Oats as scum in a previous game, and how his actions match that of Xatalos. The bolded statement is essentially stating that the two situations are somewhat different (Xatalos being more refined because Oats was very blatant about it), but my experience has led me to believe that what Xatalos is doing is scum play.
I have no idea why I wrote Yamato >.<
Anyways, so you are saying that he is doing the same thing as Oats, but he's just more avid about justifying them?
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On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch?? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk.
What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort.
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On January 07 2013 05:43 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:@XatalosObviously nobody likes your vote on Yamato. I'm pretty scummy right now - just look at the horrible stream of consciousness post. You've had it in for me all game. You totes want to lynch me right now. Jay does too, and Hapa thinks I'm totes a scumster. Maybe I could die today. Why won't you vote me? 
I didn't expect you to point this out yourself, but this is pretty much how I feel. Xatalos continually showed how "difficult" it is to make reads or whatever, and has made it a point to demonstrate how flimsy he was on CC, but the lack of interest in pursuing someone he considered scummy is quite damning, especially now that he is under fire. He cannot utter a single word past "CC has now become an option and I think he's quite scummy". That's just echoing the thoughts of the thread.
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On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 05:53 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch?? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk. What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort. Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there.
When I said thoughts, it's pretty obvious that I want something useful that I can work with. I'd still like to hear your conclusions regarding that big thought knot of fuck.
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On January 07 2013 06:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 05:53 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch?? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk. What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort. Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there. Yes, but what are your conclusions? I'm rather interested in hearing them. Conclusions? I hate Yamato's reasoning for voting Mr. Z. Could be scum trying to push the easiest player to lynch. (Mr. Z is an easy target, he even says it himself). SP OMGUS votes Xatalos even though he "isn't sure" about lynching anybody. I'm actually not sure if it's a town reaction or scum reaction. Maybe you can provide some insight on this. Xatalos still scummy as hell, not committing on reads, and discrediting his own when he has them.
That's a conclusion, but I don't see your reasoning, and I can't figure out from your other post how you've reached them. Be clear here. Why do you hate yamato's reasoning for voting Mr.Z?.
Do you hate the reasoning itself - not showing interest in who gets lynched - or how he ignores comments and remarks on mr.Z's meta?
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On January 07 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:14 Xatalos wrote:On January 07 2013 06:02 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xatalos
You mentioned that your vote would end up on yamato, Shaio, or CC today. A process of elimination read on yamato makes absolutely no sense when you have other potential lynch candidates. What are your current thoughts on Shaio and CC? Mr. Cheesecake: he's had good engagement with the thread lately, but he hasn't actually done much. Much of his posting is just fluff or nearly fluff, like the stream of thought post for example. It doesn't feel like he wants to really affect the thread, more like comment on things of his choosing and follow along... It could very well be Mafia. I'm definitely pro-lynch on him. ShiaoPi: still concerned about his fake pressure, OMGUS vote on me, relative lack of contribution etc. I can easily see his filter from a Mafia perspective, unlike several other players (Hapahauli, MrZentor, jaybrundage). It all comes down to what's realistic. It's starting to look like ShiaoPi is not, Mr. Cheesecake and yamato77 may well be. So I'm not pushing for ShiaoPi to be lynched right now. I need less general statements and more specific analysis. Lynching based on realism = not good. Who is your top scumread based on behaviour alone and why? Let's pretend for a minute that everyone, is up on the block, and you control who the town is going to lynch. Who are you going to lynch?
I agree a ton with this. Everything Xatalos has said this game takes the tone of:
"He might be scum. But then again, he might not. I'd lynch him."
What's interesting to note, is that the only two times that he actually took a stance was with DarthPunk:
On January 05 2013 07:49 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Xalatos
Welcome! Thoughts on DP appreciated!
Regarding your own points:
MrZ - He tends to do very "trolly" stuff as town and scum. His early-game in Witchcraft Mini is a good example, where he self-votes himself and just posts a couple of meaningless one-liners for most of Day 1 (as town). I'm not too worried about MrZ, as I think reading him is fairly easy. He's very clammy and afraid to post as scum. He's much more open and jokey as town.
JayBrundage - He's lynch-bait (see Hero Mini Mafia). We should definitely encourage him to post more, but he's a pretty easy mislynch (if he's town) because he tends to make sparse and wishy-washy posts.
Mr.CC - I think he's fairly similar to MrZ. I'm not very worried about reading him, because I feel he has a hard time replicating his "jokey" town-meta. His inactivity so far is a concern, but I'm not sure how much of that is due to RL business. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
I consider DarthPunk to be trying to figure out the game, not trying to drive his own agenda. That's always town points +++ in my books. I don't like him labeling you as his main suspect, considering your heavy activity and overall townish agenda, but it would be stupid for Mafia to target someone like you as well. I think it's just a case of town vs town flamewar. That's happened so many times before, and not even once has a war between active players A and B resulted in one of them flipping Mafia (in my games). Ugh, I don't like giving some players the benefit of the doubt if they're "lynch baits". That just encourages them to play anti-town as Mafia and then get away with it. Especially MrZentor's playstyle is so irritatingly useless and hard to read... What's the point of signing up if he justs posts some one liners anyway?
That got easily shut down with petty reasons such as "omg, DP got angry, corned scum do that!":
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=311&topic_id=391112
And when he made a case on ShiaoPi, which also got easily shot down for questionable reasons as well. Let us remember that a STRONG part of his case was how "indecisive" ShiaoPi was, and how he hadn't taken any stances (incredibly hypocritical, not to say). One can easily infer this from this part of the case he made:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=25#486
All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.
When I questioned him about how he gave up on that aspect of the read, he didn't comment on that original read - saying I "misunderstood" him, that his main deal with shiaoPi was his initial pressure vote on riseagain (which is in now way the main argument, in my opinion):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=27#533
I think you misunderstood our main argument. It was about the fake pressure on RiseAgain and the vague suspicion towards DarthPunk. I conceded the point about DarthPunk, but not the point about RiseAgain. Overall the argument made me feel a bit less suspicious about ShiaoPi.
all in all
I think this indecisiveness is mafia-oriented, and even with people pressuring him like mad he fails to make the effort to go through the posts and take a real stance. His whole bit with ShiaoPi not only makes zero sense, but he ignored a fair part of his post to go and give shiaopi a town read. I move we kill this scummy man.
##Vote Xatalos
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EBWOP not give shiaoPi a town read, but rather back off and revert to the "he might be scum or he might not" stance
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On January 07 2013 06:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 06:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 07 2013 06:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 06:00 Hapahauli wrote:On January 07 2013 05:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 07 2013 05:53 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 07 2013 04:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Just going to do a stream of consciousness kind of thing as I read the thread. Spoilered stuff so it doesn't take up ridiculous amounts of space. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> So what you're saying is, you don't want to lynch anyone? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I do scumhunt, just because I am not writing a case on anything that moves does not mean I am not doing it...
Boson is pretty much town in my eyes, no reason to share his spreadsheet with his thoughts lined out with us if he were scum. Also he has directly started to scumhunt as soon as he replaced in, gets lots of towniepoints from me.
CC is someone I don't want to lynch today, you may think him scummy for not making a shitton of cases but that is just a difference in playstyle imo. Looking through his filter he is actively trying to get more information out of people by asking questions promoting discussing. What I dislike is parking his vote on MrZ but that is nothing to be honest.
Who the fuck do you want to lynch?? + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Ahh something me and Yamato agree on... I hate that Mr. Z ain't doin shit this game. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:06 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 18:04 ShiaoPi wrote:
What makes MrZ scummier than Xatalos in your opinion? Apathy about who is lynched, less scum hunting than Xatalos, less reasoning posted than Xatalos, more trollish nature to his posting. Plus he's advocated the idea that we should limit our discussions in favor of making a decision on a lynch which is a scum favored idea. No, Yamato wtf. Advocating a shorter time limit is not scum favored -- it promotes activity because we have an artificial deadline to adhere by. 72 hours is plenty. Not a reason to lynch MrZ. On January 06 2013 18:49 yamato77 wrote:Is the only reason you want to lynch him is that he's useless? That's the only thing his meta might excuse but I think there are other parts of his play that are scummy. As I've mentioned before he's advocated the idea that we should be deciding on a lynch by now, which is in opposition to the town-favored idea Hapa put forth that we should allow more time for ourselves so that we don't end up mislynching. Indeed so far that has been good, because we haven't done anything rash or stupid just because we felt we had to decide on someone to kill. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 09:37 MrZentor wrote:
Also, dragging days out will lead to decreased interest in the game by town, increasing inactivity, and generally making things easier for scum.
Days should be 48-72 hours. He's expressed this sentiment multiple times since this initial post in the form of troll votes and acts of impatience. He's pushing town toward making a bad decision which is something I do not think we should be doing. Only scum would want to advocate this idea. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:21 MrZentor wrote:
I will use my hammer vote as soon as I possibly can.
It's unlikely that scum will want to have the final vote on somebody, because it will put them under a lot of scrutiny. This post here he looks like he's setting himself up for making the hammer vote on a player, and then calling himself town for doing it. And again he's advocating the idea that quick hammer lynches are a good thing when they only benefit scum. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 11:23 MrZentor wrote:
There's too little information to make an accurate lynch first day; we're just wasting time by delaying it. Here he bemoans day 1 as useless and says we should lynch someone. He doesn't have any good ideas of who to lynch, nor has he helped make day 1 more useful, he just wants to kill someone. Apathy about who is lynched is a scummy trait. So basically instead of being pro-town and scum hunting, or even offering up a scum read, he's given town reads on people and told us all to lynch someone quickly. He's playing anti town. Okay this is rediculous. Yamato I feel like you're pressuring the weakest player right now (in terms of actualy content). These are super easy points to make as scum. These aren't good reasons to lynch Mr Z at all. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 18:52 Xatalos wrote:Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that). Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 15:35 Z-BosoN wrote:Allright, caught up. What concerns me about Xatalos, as you can see in the spreadsheet is this post: On January 05 2013 22:20 Xatalos wrote:On January 05 2013 15:00 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:52 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:48 DarthPunk wrote:On January 05 2013 14:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 05 2013 14:45 DarthPunk wrote:
oh and If I had to lynch now and hapa was dead. hmmm. dunno I would need to read more filters. Actually I would wait to vote until something solid comes up. Remember when you called Xatalos scummy as shit? Yeah I guess you forgot about that huh? Yeah. He is. But I am not certain. Holy fuck dude I change my mind and am unsure as a townie with no info on day one. That doesn't sound plausible at all now does it? Yeah, but how the hell did you change your mind so quickly? You just called Xatalos "scummy as shit" barely an hour ago. Then all of a sudden you're unsure again? Holy fuck. What do you not understand about this. I am town. I have no additional info. I have to figure shit out. The way I figure shit out is to have ideas and then alter these ideas with changing info or more thought applied to the problem. Whilst I was flaming with you I was thinking about Xatalos. Now the thing about Xatalos is that he is a pretty bad townie. He likes to sheep and he changes his mind. Changing your mind is a pretty bad thing to do as scum because people such as yourself for some reason view it as scummy, and as scum you don't need to change your mind. You can defend someone you know will flip town and be fully justified in doing that later when he flips. You can also tunnel people as long as they aren't your buddies, and even then you can do so. So changing his mind/sheeping was originally scummy but not with some further thought applied. His list post irks me as all lists post do in general HOWEVER re reading it actually contained decent content and seemed to fit someone trying to figure shit out. Not scummy. So. He is back to null after reevaluation and I need to figure some other shit out. Savvy? Hmm.. Posts like this are the reason why I originally viewed DP as townish. From time to time there are scummy traits in his filter (angriness, contradictions...) but then again, there are many posts where he appears to genuinely try solving the game. For example this earlier post of his: On January 05 2013 06:16 DarthPunk wrote:
I don;t like either of the 'cases' to be perfectly honest.
Rise is completely null to me. And to be honest you are the one picking a fight with rise. There should be one read due to Rises' aggression and that is null. I thought that you were simply following up on him in order to push the town to be active. However you trying to drum up support for a bandwagon based of something that any player of your calibre should KNOW is a null tell is not 'potentially scummy' it IS scummy. and it has me worried.
Since when do you call things 'potentially scummy' anyway??? sounds really fucking off to be honest.
Yeah it was a WTF post from yamato initially. But his explanation, willingness to be open and transparent, and the fact that his original WTF post turned out to be an exercise in an open thought process give me a town read on yamato at this juncture.
And once again I am wondering how the fuck a town hapa is not reaching the same conclusions as myself and is pushing the wagons of two people who are null at worst.
These well thought-out and contentful posts about several players seem like something Mafia would have a hard time doing. Not impossible, of course, but they just fit town agenda a lot better. Combined with DP's relatively high activity and the speed at which the ghost bandwagon for him gained support, I don't really feel comfortable lynching him today. There's also the point that in my experience, a town vs town flamewar is the most obvious explanation for a fight between active players. With that said, there are some things in his filter that I don't like. DP, if you're there, I want your take on the following matters. On January 05 2013 07:04 DarthPunk wrote:What was on top of my agenda was figuring out hapa as you are the scariest player in this game, and if I could get a solid town read on you we could roll these scum. Unfortunately you went retard and or are scum so now I have to deal with a hapa tunnelling me based on On January 05 2013 06:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Straight-up OMGUS and a sprinkle of gut-feeling. You scum brah. All the while I am somehow illogical despite having really solid reasoning and you just ignoring that to serve your OMGUS agenda. Well, that is cool with me HAPA. I don't have to convince you you are scum. I just have to convince the town. And that should be straightforward after this little party we have been having together. I just can't wrap my head around this post. Here's what it basically says: 1) Hapa is the best player in this game 2) He's a retard and/or scum 3) He's definitely scum Where's the coherency and logic in all this? You called me out for switching my opinions in the time of 1-2 hours, but you're switching your opinions even inside the same post... It makes me think this could all be fake reasoning, only aimed at pushing an agenda, not finding the truth. And why is it so bad for Hapa to push weak cases? What it does is create discussion and draw opinions, likely even hints to several players' alignments, and simply there almost CAN'T be any strong cases this early. So it's infinitely better to push a weak case than merely talk policy or semantics. I have a hard time seeing why this makes Hapa scum exactly? - - - Alright. I don't have any strong scumreads at the moment, but... There are two players I'm considering for today. Mr. Cheesecake- Lots of one-liners that add nothing to the thread - So far his only suspect is me, based on my uncertainty about DP... and nothing else to add to the discussion? - A reasonable amount of posts, but basically nothing of value except the (weak) case on me - Generally being quite forgettable and blending in without drawing attention at all yamato77- Voting for Mr. Cheesecake since... why? - Weird logic and reasoning... scrambling for something to back up his opinions? - Practically nothing useful in his (short) filter - Talking almost exclusively about meta/policy/semantics, nothing really meaningful related to this game His bit on DP reads to me as a biiiig over-justification. What is he trying to accomplish on DP? What is the purpose of beggining by stating why DP looks town, and then refuting it? Xatalos, I'd like you to better explain this post, so I can better understand where you are coming from. The reason I have conflicting arguments about DP's alignment is because I have conflicting feelings about him. Some posts he seems townish, some posts scummy. By the way, he still hasn't responded to any of my questions earlier... Even though he has posted a reasonable amount since then. That doesn't make me feel too good about him, but it's not like we're lynching him anyways (there are so many people who are hiding in plain sight compared to him), so I'd rather not focus on him for now. It's true that MrZentor has been quite passive and non-contributing, but he was somewhat like this in Paranoia Mafia as well (and he was town). And I got a townish feel from the discussion we had earlier in the thread. I don't feel like he's a good lynch. I said I was ready to vote for Mr. Cheesecake, but somehow I don't feel like it's a sufficiently justifiable lynch. He's had some townish posting lately and my read on him wasn't strong to begin with. But there's someone else I want to discuss... ShiaoPiThe first thing that doesn't seem right is this post: Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! I agree with his points about Hapa/DP and myself, but then comes the weird "pressure" vote. It reminds me so much of an earlier game where one Mafia player made a similar pressure vote without ANY conviction. There's even a double (over?)justification for this vote (I want to see more from him - VOTE - do something please). It feels like just a ploy to appear scumhunting with pressure, but that pressure is so weak and apologetic that it doesn't look like he even tried to accomplish anything. It's just all too indifferent about gaining any new information and basically voting for the sake of having voted. Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
Right now I am torn between the two of jaybrundage and yamato77.
More tending towards yamato77 for his meltdown in logic as jaybrundage has done nothing, which is bad but not necessarily scum Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 12:26 ShiaoPi wrote:
EBWOP: oh and someone I would be more reluctant to lynch but could agree to is DP Just listing possible lynch candidates without much (or any in DP's case) reasoning, and putting his foot pre-emptively in a lot of bandwagons. Not advancing the thread, not scumhunting, merely agreeing to lynch several players. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> All of his stances are neutral and weak. Although it's a bit hypocritical since I've been hesitant as well, but when he was town in our earlier game together, he had VERY strong opinions and even hard defended a scum until he actually flipped red. When he was Mafia, he was very quiet and vague. This just feels like much more fitting his scum meta, although it's not a huge pool of evidence.With this, I'm actually much more confident in ShiaoPi being scum than Mr. Cheesecake. It's also late in the day, so I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote. ##Vote ShiaoPi OMG TAKE A STANCE ON SOMETHING INSTEAD OF DISCREDITING YOUR OWN READ + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Why are you actively seeking to stop pressuring me?? Apparently anybody will do for this lynch despite your null reads on everybody. + Show Spoiler +On January 06 2013 21:27 ShiaoPi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:41 ShiaoPi wrote:On January 06 2013 19:36 Xatalos wrote:On January 06 2013 19:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am voting you now because:
-flip flopping on DP in some logical inconsistencies earlier
-not committing at all earlier
-writing a terribly bad case for the sake of writing one to get some pressure off yourself.
call it OMGUS if you want, I don't think so.
Also you have been on my hitlist now, Zentor is not around so I cannot ask him stuff right now, I just asked yamato a bunch of stuff earlier. Leaving you and with that crap contribution you look like the best option for today's lynch When was I under pressure...? I've just been trying find someone scummier than Mr. Cheesecake, but it's not an easy job, considering the relatively low activity and the high amount of townish/nullish players. There are many things in your filter that strike me as suspicious (mentioned earlier), and even though they're partly intuition and not solid proof, it's better than Mr. Cheesecake in my eyes (he started off under the radar but has had some engagement since then). Several people have mentioned you as a possible lynch candidate that qualifies as under pressure. I would really be interested in those "many things" in my filter that are suspicious, I already answered the ones you quoted earlier. Please show them to me, I don't even know where you find them. Anyway I am out for dinner now. See you later. Okay... I guess that counts as pressure, although I haven't been even remotely in a dangerous spot until now. But this always happens to me when I'm town at some point, so I'm not too worried yet. Are you saying you were really pressuring RiseAgain? I just can't see anything but a weak fake pressure in that. Merely voting for someone without any actual pressure doesn't count as pressure. Some other players in this game have thrown away weak votes as well, but at least they tried to create some pressure. You didn't even try - the opposite, you openly said it was only an empty vote beforehand. Why were you suddenly okay with lynching DP when he started to gain a bandwagon for himself? All I can see is an opportunistic (yet extremely vague) move to potentially get rid of an active player. And when the bandwagon started to crumble, you suddenly dropped him from your suspects without saying a word about it. It feels like you're just trying to get someone lynched, and it doesn't really matter who. So I am back. Where did I say I was really pressuring Rise? I clearly said it was to get him to post, since I had questions for him, that I wanted to answer. It is blatantly clear in my filter.
I was not "suddenly" okay with lynching DP, stop misrepresenting facts. Mr.CC asked me who my other possible candidates were. That was after the first episode of DP/Hapa-shitfest but before the entire wagon on him started. I was active during the increasing pressure on DP, being part of it myself, before I had to leave cause of RL matters. How is it opportunistic for me to be one of the persons being there while the pressure added up, when I really thought that he might be red?? The bandwagon started to crumble because DP was doing some really townish posts, thing is I was not in the thread at that time. As soon as I was back und caught up I removed DP from my hitlist as he was much more townie now. I did not want to bloat my post with the DP matter again, when it was not part of the trending discussion in the thread, but I did "say a word" about it.... Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
-snip- I for sure care who gets lynched, seriously are you even reading this thread? I clearly stated which persons I want to lynch during varying times already. I'm confused Batman. Pressure votes get ppl to post and stuff -- why are you saying you're not pressuring him? This post is basically just a summary of events also, useless kk. What are your conclusions? You just read in a biased way, but you don't draw any conclusions whatsoever. There's nothing anyone can defend or support to. This is an useless effort. Well you asked me to give my thoughts on the last few pages. And there you go. I don't draw any conclusions because it's just what I was thinking. So yes, it is pretty useless, but it pushes whatever I was thinking at the time out there. Yes, but what are your conclusions? I'm rather interested in hearing them. Conclusions? I hate Yamato's reasoning for voting Mr. Z. Could be scum trying to push the easiest player to lynch. (Mr. Z is an easy target, he even says it himself). SP OMGUS votes Xatalos even though he "isn't sure" about lynching anybody. I'm actually not sure if it's a town reaction or scum reaction. Maybe you can provide some insight on this. Xatalos still scummy as hell, not committing on reads, and discrediting his own when he has them. That's a conclusion, but I don't see your reasoning, and I can't figure out from your other post how you've reached them. Be clear here. Why do you hate yamato's reasoning for voting Mr.Z?. Do you hate the reasoning itself - not showing interest in who gets lynched - or how he ignores comments and remarks on mr.Z's meta? I'll respond to this in a few
Make sure you explain yourself clearly and use palpable arguments. This "he's been scummy" thing is getting old.
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@Hapa
Any comment on the bit on ShiaoPi I outlined?
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On Xatalos concerning his interaction with Shiao
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Cause Xatalo's case on Shiao was mainly two things:
a) Shiao is not taking stances
b) Shiaos early pressure vote didn't look like a pressure vote but more of a scum pretending he wants to pressure or some other shit like this.
When I asked him about a) , he simply said that b) was the main part of the case but Shiao had refuted that in their interaction, when, in my opinion, it's clearly not the case, as I've quoted in the previous post
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How is it not too relevant? It's proof that his reasoning for backing off of ShiaoPi is weak. He didn't address said point of the case because there was nothing to actually refute it. I disagree with you here, I think this is a very important aspect of him being scum. Because he did the same thing with DarthPunk, had a read which got changed with fairly flimsy reasoning.
Well, we can debate this in the post game, but if we agree that he is scum, what the hell right
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Where do you stand on CC at the moment?
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On January 07 2013 07:45 Hapahauli wrote:
CC seems slightly town. He seems to be not concerned with any suspicion on him. I didn't like the "stream of consciousness" post, but he is active and engaged in the thread.
Again though, I'm in the process of re-evaluating all my town-reads. I basically have reasons to think everyone here is town for one reason or another except for Xatalos.
Thought you were null on ShiaoPi?
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Sorry about that Xatalos >.<
On January 07 2013 08:26 Hapahauli wrote:
I'll also say that Shaio's OMGUS looks absolutely terrible right now.
I have a lot of reading to do. Weeeee.
Why do you think it is terrible? As I read it it seems quite legit. He already didn't like Xatalos and Xatalos made some bad points against him.
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On January 07 2013 09:15 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 09:06 DarthPunk wrote:On January 07 2013 08:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
DP didn't you think I was town and stuff?
Also, how did you suddenly think Xatalos was town? Yeah I did think you were town. But your posts ever since that stream of conciousness post changed my mind. I thought Xatalos was town because many, many times it was stated in the thread exactly why people thought he was scummy. And what did he do? he continued to do those exact things in the pursuit of other players. I.E. He didn't give a fuck about looking scummy, which is not something I would expect newbie scum to pull. He also changed his mind a lot even though he knew it would get him in trouble. after CASES were being made about that very thing he continued to do it. Didn't care about being scummy. = Town Didn't alter his play when it was obviously getting him into shit = Town Continued to pursue his reads with the whole thread calling him out for them = Town So yeah. By the end I think it was fairly obvious that Xatalos was town. I don't really blame people for voting for him. I just wish I had gotten up in time to change things. What posts are it? How did they change your mind? You were pretty sure I was town. You were also pretty sure Xatalos was scummy, and did nothing to prevent his lynch. In fact, you just told them both to fight. Now you come in here right after he's lynched, conveniently, and 180 your read on both of us? Seems a bit odd.
Odd = scummy? Or odd = pointless comment you just decided to throw out there?
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Aight, I'ma kinda sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow.
I'll post some of my reads and give my thoughts on the game then.
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I'll be home in an hour or some and post my reads
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Sorry guys, took longer than I expected, traffic was a slut. I'm glad no one died.
Hapa are you here?
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So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you.
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On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment.
So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information.
I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do).
@Mr.CC
It's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum?
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DP don't go anywhere, you aussy mufucka.
Aside from CC, who do you think is scum? Do you agree with Hapa's assessment on ShiaoPi?
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On January 08 2013 08:24 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:22 DarthPunk wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I do think the named vt should claim. Roleblock claims are iffy. Hapa dies tomorrow night anyway so they arent in danger of NK really. how the fuck are roleblock claims iffy? and how do you know hapa will die tomorrow night? Because scum can fakeclaim being roleblocked? I've seen my scumbuddy do it in my only scumgame. And because doctors can't heal the same target twice. This is assuming Hapa was shot, of course. I'm pretty sure he was and protected, it's the easiest explanation. What doctor wouldn't protect Hapa?
If scum fakes roleblock claim, the named VT will know it's bullshit.
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On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today.
When did I reverse my read on Xatalos?
I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions
I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking?
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On January 08 2013 08:26 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? Oh you bet I'll be dishing out information. I just need to see people taking some initiative right now. I don't want people sheeping me. I need to see who's pushing reads for what reasons and why.
I'll be the new hapa then :D
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On January 08 2013 08:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today. When did I reverse my read on Xatalos? I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking? Wtf are you talking about? DP 180'd his reads. Not you. I just answered your question.
Derp. My mistake.
I'd like you to be clearer on your read of him, though. Why is he one of the townier people?
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On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy.
This post reeks of bad assumptions.
You are saying that if I was town, scum would surely shoot me over hapa, and if I were scum, there is no one but hapa to shoot? Am I missing something?
If my entrance was scummy, why are you pointing it out? As for my excuse, answer me this:
On January 08 2013 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today. When did I reverse my read on Xatalos? I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking?
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On January 08 2013 08:37 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:24 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP don't go anywhere, you aussy mufucka.
Aside from CC, who do you think is scum? Do you agree with Hapa's assessment on ShiaoPi? Shiao is hard to read as he lurks hard as each alignment. The thing with shiao though is that later on in the game as town he may just randomly solve the game. AS scum he will continue to be useless. CC is my strongest read. I want to see him flip. If he flips scum though I think yamato and shiao are both probably town. I fucking hate Mr Z's playstyle but he is looking townie also. so it would come down to you or jay. This is assuming hapa is confirmed at some stage when the medic claims.
Ok, so assume I'm town for now. Assuming this, what do you make of mrZ's latest post?
Also, why is jay scum?
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On January 08 2013 08:38 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy. This post reeks of bad assumptions. You are saying that if I was town, scum would surely shoot me over hapa, and if I were scum, there is no one but hapa to shoot? Am I missing something? If my entrance was scummy, why are you pointing it out right now?? As for my excuse, answer me this: Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today. When did I reverse my read on Xatalos? I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking?
EBWOP on the red bolded part.
Right now as in, why now and not before?
This makes little sense, because if you had really found it scummy, then
a) you would have mentioned it as town and
b) you would have not put me in the same category as hapa in this post:
On January 07 2013 02:34 MrZentor wrote:The four main suspects are Mr. CC, Shiaopi, Yamato, and Xatalos. Mr. CC + Show Spoiler +He's probably town, and there are two main reasons for me to think that. 1. He's carefree and open, especially during the opening of the game. On January 04 2013 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Mr.Z we're masoned you dummy. ShiaoPi obv scum right? On January 05 2013 10:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey yeah yeah yeah Hey yeah, I said HEY! What's going on?!
Home from my shift and such. Reading the shitfest that is DP-Hapa (kind of sounds like a porno) interaction atm and catching up.
Questions, people, questions. Anyone? On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? 2. Two of the other suspects targeted him early in the game. Although it is possible one of them was faking this aggression, it is unlikely, because of all the risks that come with it. If the scum faking aggression toward Mr.CC gets lynched and doesn't do a good job of faking it, then it will be obvious that Mr. CC is scum with him. On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:
Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said?
Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target.
CC is scummy.
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. From Xatalos. It is possible that he is scum with ShiaoPi, but I find this unlikely considering his early game behavior. Yamato + Show Spoiler +His early game play seems a lot like an earnest, noobie townie. On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not sure how the logic is strange.
You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time.
You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic.
I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? On January 06 2013 00:06 yamato77 wrote:
I will admit I'm not paying as much attention to this game as I should.
Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion.
I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie?
No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game.
Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. Also, the way he pushes me makes me think he's a noob townie. I would expect newer players to think I'm scum, because of a lot of the things I do are obviously scummy. On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Xatalos + Show Spoiler +He is pretty uptight, but he makes some good points in his massive cases; he and ShiaoPi are equally likely to be scum. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example:
In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
ShiaoPi + Show Spoiler +Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. He parks his vote on a lurker. On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! But he also waffles over Xatalos, which makes me think he could be town. On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Who we should lynch. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know which one we should lynch, but I know what we should do if each one is lynched.
.....................................Xatalos.................................................................................................Shiaopi............
................................../.....................\........................................................................................./..........\............
........................flips scum..........flips town..................................................................flips scum.....flips town...........................
...........................|............................|............................................................................./...............................\..................................
......find scum partner..............lynch Shia.....................................................lynch MrCC..............lynch Xatalos-.flips.scum .....
................................................../............\....................................................../..................\..............................|........................|
.....................................flips town......flips scum.............................flips scum............flips town...........flips town.......find scum
....................................|.................................|.....................................|............................|........................../.......................partner
...start suspecting people......................lynch MrCC....................win..............start suspecting people....................
...like Hapa and Boson............................/...............\.........................................like Hapa and Boson
..........................................................flips scum.......flips town...........................................................................................
........................................................./............................|...................................................................
....................................................win...................start suspecting people.....................................
............................................................................like Hapa and Boson.....................................
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And it's the last spoiler, for those who read a lil less
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@Yamato
That kind of reminds me, you are making many of the same reads I am. It happened with Xatalos, and now with ShiaoPi, in which you came with a questionable town read on SP after I hinted that I thought the same. I kinda feel like you are sheeping me.
Who is your top scum read atm?
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On January 08 2013 09:05 MrZentor wrote:
Z-Boson, I meant your entrance after the lynch.
Not your original entrance.
Well that's a plus. Answer the other questions please.
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mr. ZzZzZzZzZzzZzzzzz....
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On January 08 2013 09:31 Hapahauli wrote:
Where'd everyone go? Discussion was so good for all of 30 minutes =/
Since no one is answering a godamn thing, I decided to read some filters. I'm right here though if you wanna chat
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On January 08 2013 09:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm here too. I'll answer anything but I'm working atm.
You are most everyone's top scum read except Hapa's and Mr.Z's. This is where he explained his town read on you:
On January 07 2013 02:34 MrZentor wrote:The four main suspects are Mr. CC, Shiaopi, Yamato, and Xatalos. Mr. CC + Show Spoiler +He's probably town, and there are two main reasons for me to think that. 1. He's carefree and open, especially during the opening of the game. On January 04 2013 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Mr.Z we're masoned you dummy. ShiaoPi obv scum right? On January 05 2013 10:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey yeah yeah yeah Hey yeah, I said HEY! What's going on?!
Home from my shift and such. Reading the shitfest that is DP-Hapa (kind of sounds like a porno) interaction atm and catching up.
Questions, people, questions. Anyone? On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? 2. Two of the other suspects targeted him early in the game. Although it is possible one of them was faking this aggression, it is unlikely, because of all the risks that come with it. If the scum faking aggression toward Mr.CC gets lynched and doesn't do a good job of faking it, then it will be obvious that Mr. CC is scum with him. On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:
Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said?
Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target.
CC is scummy.
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. From Xatalos. It is possible that he is scum with ShiaoPi, but I find this unlikely considering his early game behavior. Yamato + Show Spoiler +His early game play seems a lot like an earnest, noobie townie. On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not sure how the logic is strange.
You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time.
You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic.
I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? On January 06 2013 00:06 yamato77 wrote:
I will admit I'm not paying as much attention to this game as I should.
Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion.
I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie?
No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game.
Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. Also, the way he pushes me makes me think he's a noob townie. I would expect newer players to think I'm scum, because of a lot of the things I do are obviously scummy. On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Xatalos + Show Spoiler +He is pretty uptight, but he makes some good points in his massive cases; he and ShiaoPi are equally likely to be scum. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example:
In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
ShiaoPi + Show Spoiler +Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. He parks his vote on a lurker. On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! But he also waffles over Xatalos, which makes me think he could be town. On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Who we should lynch. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know which one we should lynch, but I know what we should do if each one is lynched.
.....................................Xatalos.................................................................................................Shiaopi............
................................../.....................\........................................................................................./..........\............
........................flips scum..........flips town..................................................................flips scum.....flips town...........................
...........................|............................|............................................................................./...............................\..................................
......find scum partner..............lynch Shia.....................................................lynch MrCC..............lynch Xatalos-.flips.scum .....
................................................../............\....................................................../..................\..............................|........................|
.....................................flips town......flips scum.............................flips scum............flips town...........flips town.......find scum
....................................|.................................|.....................................|............................|........................../.......................partner
...start suspecting people......................lynch MrCC....................win..............start suspecting people....................
...like Hapa and Boson............................/...............\.........................................like Hapa and Boson
..........................................................flips scum.......flips town...........................................................................................
........................................................./............................|...................................................................
....................................................win...................start suspecting people.....................................
............................................................................like Hapa and Boson.....................................
And this is where he explained DP's town read as well.
On January 06 2013 01:04 MrZentor wrote:
I like to read people not by if they're contradicting themselves or "pushing mafia agenda", which are pretty unreliable indicators, but by the emotion and genuineness of their posts. Scum have a very difficult time emulating the frustration a townie would feel in a position like DP's, so by seeing that frustration in his recent posts, it is easy to know he is town.
Reading people like this will give you a lot more town reads than scum reads, but in a game like this, being able to find town is nearly as helpful as finding scum, because it makes finding scum much easier by narrowing down the pool of suspects.
How natural do you find these, assuming a town perspective and given his degree of certainty?
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On January 08 2013 09:41 Hapahauli wrote:
IMO Z-Bo, the "who should we lynch" spoiler pretty much confirms MrZ as town. Like what scum on earth would have patience to do that?
I can see your point, but it's something that takes small effort that doesn't really add anything to the thread, save his idea for a plan. It's not like it's Dienosore's complicated as fuck map that would take a huge amount of effort, it's fairly easy to do.
But see, where is all this effort being applied? Is it reading thread or making it look like you care about town?
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On January 08 2013 09:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
How natural do I find what? His town reads on me and DP?
yep
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On January 08 2013 09:43 DarthPunk wrote:
@ Yamato. You have a lot of experience playing with CC don't you? how would you say his play this game correlates to his previous games with you?
@ ZB have you dramatically altered your playstyle since the last time we played together? This is certainly not the town meta I remember from you.
It's not the scum one either. It seems I'm very good at changing my playstyle game to game =)
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Reading his filter, yamato had a pretty good point on MrZ yesterday. He definitely doesn't care about who get's lynched, if you tread his filter.
Also, mr.Z's latest comment on how my entrance is "scummy" is something I find very scummy. It's an easy claim to make "oh look! You said you were gonna post your reads but you DIDN'T!", and then not clarify exactly what he meant by this when prodded. In my mind it's something quite easy for scum to pick up on and seem like they are contributing.
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On January 08 2013 09:54 DarthPunk wrote:
ZB Top two Town reads and top two scum reads. Fast as you can.
don't see the point of this, but I think it's something you can tell from my filter.
scum: mr.CC, mr.Z
town: Hapa and you
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On January 08 2013 09:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 09:49 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 09:43 DarthPunk wrote:
@ Yamato. You have a lot of experience playing with CC don't you? how would you say his play this game correlates to his previous games with you?
@ ZB have you dramatically altered your playstyle since the last time we played together? This is certainly not the town meta I remember from you. It's not the scum one either. It seems I'm very good at changing my playstyle game to game =) Well be careful. If you are too difficult to read hapa will tunnel you day one every game. And the entire town will sheep because hapa. ZZZ
You're pretty damn easy to read DP, he figured it out and it just takes some effort.
In my case, he's still figuring it out, as I am constantly trying new things.
I assure you this is me trying to interact more with town, which was the main problem with the other meta I used in mario. Big formal cases do not win games by themselves.
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On January 08 2013 10:02 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 09:57 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 09:54 DarthPunk wrote:
ZB Top two Town reads and top two scum reads. Fast as you can. don't see the point of this, but I think it's something you can tell from my filter. scum: mr.CC, mr.Z town: Hapa and you So how do you reconcile hapa's strong town reads on both your top scum reads with your strong town read on hapa? Is hapa flat out wrong? Are you wrong?
I think he's wrong, but with no great amount of conviction. On Mr.CC, atm, I oppose him quite a bit. I'm still working on mr.Z though. If he's town I'd really like him to post more.
His strong town reads are obvious. You pretty much confirmed yourself as town to me with your bragging post "HA! I knew it! Xatalos was town and CC was scum!", even when those weren't your original reads. Like hell you'd do that as scum.
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On January 08 2013 10:04 Hapahauli wrote:
Z-Bo, I'm curious - have you ever taken a look at MrZ's meta (particularly his scum-games)?
nope. Is there a key aspect to it I may be missing?
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On January 08 2013 10:09 DarthPunk wrote:And here I was thinking I kept almost being mislynched day one because I am hard to read
Oh poor you. Your read doesn't come so easy though, so that's a plus right
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On January 08 2013 10:12 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 10:05 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 10:04 Hapahauli wrote:
Z-Bo, I'm curious - have you ever taken a look at MrZ's meta (particularly his scum-games)? nope. Is there a key aspect to it I may be missing? In what I've seen, he's super-lurker extraordinaire as scum.
>.>
He's lurking a bit right now, wouldn't you say? He shoved off my prods and disappeared.
That's also easy as hell to avoid, all you gotta do is post.
How many scum games do you have of him? It makes more sense to use that as a tell if he has at least two or three
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On January 08 2013 10:15 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 10:10 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 10:09 DarthPunk wrote:And here I was thinking I kept almost being mislynched day one because I am hard to read Oh poor you. Your read doesn't come so easy though, so that's a plus right You know. I am rather worried about you ZB. For one. You have lost your shit at me almost every game we have played at one point or another. And this game you are down right friendly. There is something in your town meta which is a fucking rock solid solid solid tell that I have never mentioned, so I doubt you would be aware of it, that I have yet to see. Also you had like a massive lovefest with marv in that scum game you guys played so some of that was likely to have rubbed off on you. Caution is needed in your case I believe.
That's because you have yet to make a bad, illogical "I'M NOT READING" case against me. Even if you did make one though, I'd probably scream not at you but at those who follow it, given that YOU'RE thick as a brick.
Big thing here is, and I hope you have learned that on mario, is that you shouldn't judge me by meta. Definitely be cautious with me, but see if I am pushing a scum agenda and/or my play makes no sense from a townie perspective, instead of going like meta meta meta as the other game.
It should be obvious that I'm townie though, I'm trying like super hard this game >.<
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Anyways DP, this isn't very productive. We should focus on other subjects, nay?
What do you think of mr.Z and my discussion with hapa?
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On January 08 2013 10:25 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 10:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
Anyways DP, this isn't very productive. We should focus on other subjects, nay?
What do you think of mr.Z and my discussion with hapa? MR Z is town. You are wrong. Hapa is right. Essentially.
Why do you think he is town? Just meta or are you reading a word I'm saying?
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On January 08 2013 10:31 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 10:25 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 10:25 DarthPunk wrote:On January 08 2013 10:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
Anyways DP, this isn't very productive. We should focus on other subjects, nay?
What do you think of mr.Z and my discussion with hapa? MR Z is town. You are wrong. Hapa is right. Essentially. Why do you think he is town? Just meta or are you reading a word I'm saying? He acted the same as town in witchcraft. He has had made reads both scum and town that were sensible. His flow chart was off the wall townie as hapa said. I hate the way he plays. He certainly trolls somewhat. But that does not make him scum and I haven't seen anything that would alter my town read on him. Calling out the way you entered the thread was null to me.
Omg, how the fuck is his chart off the wall townie??
I mean, that's PERFECT for scum to invest their effort, isn't it? It's easy as fuck to make,I could make one in like 10 min. It's much harder to actually scumhunt and interact with other townies. It accomplishes NOTHING for town. That's like textbook XXX.
His comment on me is scummy by itself, but how he fails to interact to my prodding is waaay more. Seriously, look at the goddamn interaction:
+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2013 08:38 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy. This post reeks of bad assumptions. You are saying that if I was town, scum would surely shoot me over hapa, and if I were scum, there is no one but hapa to shoot? Am I missing something? If my entrance was scummy, why are you pointing it out? As for my excuse, answer me this: Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today. When did I reverse my read on Xatalos? I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking? On January 08 2013 08:46 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 08:38 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy. This post reeks of bad assumptions. You are saying that if I was town, scum would surely shoot me over hapa, and if I were scum, there is no one but hapa to shoot? Am I missing something? If my entrance was scummy, why are you pointing it out right now?? As for my excuse, answer me this: On January 08 2013 08:28 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:26 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: On January 08 2013 08:23 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 08:15 Z-BosoN wrote:
So you are. Don't go ahead and disappear. I want to discuss ShiaoPi and CC with you. Why me? Discuss them with the rest of the thread. I'm the last person you should be asking the opinion of right now - I'm obv-town. We need to hear answers from others to determine their alignment. So what? Asking opinions is a good way to find scum, but it also adds information. I actually think the opposite, since you are 99% town right now, you should dish out as much info as you can, as it's almost guaranteed non-bullshit. I can understand your view this game due to inactiveness, but I don't want you to go full inactive (dunno if that's what you plan to do). @Mr.CCIt's cause I think Hapa is wrong on you and wrong on ShiaoPi. Since you are right here - let me ask you this, do you think DP is scum? I don't like the fact that he just shows up randomly minutes after the lynch and 180's his reads on me and Xatalos. It doesn't make him scum, though. He's one of the more townier people so I definitely wouldn't lynch him today. When did I reverse my read on Xatalos? I never thought you a strong town to begin with, and I like DP's case a lot. Please answer my questions I showed up because I got caught up in traffic. Why would I make a post saying I'd post my reads before deadline and not do so? Do you doubt this? If not, what's the point of asking? EBWOP on the red bolded part. Right now as in, why now and not before? This makes little sense, because if you had really found it scummy, then a) you would have mentioned it as town and b) you would have not put me in the same category as hapa in this post: Show nested quote +On January 07 2013 02:34 MrZentor wrote:The four main suspects are Mr. CC, Shiaopi, Yamato, and Xatalos. Mr. CC + Show Spoiler +He's probably town, and there are two main reasons for me to think that. 1. He's carefree and open, especially during the opening of the game. On January 04 2013 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Mr.Z we're masoned you dummy. ShiaoPi obv scum right? On January 05 2013 10:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hey yeah yeah yeah Hey yeah, I said HEY! What's going on?!
Home from my shift and such. Reading the shitfest that is DP-Hapa (kind of sounds like a porno) interaction atm and catching up.
Questions, people, questions. Anyone? On January 05 2013 12:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Oh hey Hapa whats up. I need someone to talk to. Wanna cuddle? What you think of Yamato going full retard right now? 2. Two of the other suspects targeted him early in the game. Although it is possible one of them was faking this aggression, it is unlikely, because of all the risks that come with it. If the scum faking aggression toward Mr.CC gets lynched and doesn't do a good job of faking it, then it will be obvious that Mr. CC is scum with him. On January 05 2013 12:37 yamato77 wrote:
Do people really think it was that difficult to understand what I said?
Anyway CC your case is bad and I think you're faking this read. I don't think Xatalos is that scummy, but he is an easy target.
CC is scummy.
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake Mr. Cheesecake
Who was he again? I only remembered him after rereading the thread a couple of times. He hasn't actually taken stances on anything that matters (not counting obvious stuff like "we should lynch the scummiest player"). What I'm most worried about is his complete lack of presence - he's basically casually lurking without being too obvious. I'm unwilling to judge him yet, but he isn't looking good so far. From Xatalos. It is possible that he is scum with ShiaoPi, but I find this unlikely considering his early game behavior. Yamato + Show Spoiler +His early game play seems a lot like an earnest, noobie townie. On January 04 2013 16:41 yamato77 wrote:
I'm not sure how the logic is strange.
You told me it was difficult to think in IRC because there was no time.
You advocate making longer, more thought out decisions in this game because of the instant lynch mechanic.
I don't know why you guys think this is a big deal. On January 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 17:16 Hapahauli wrote:On January 04 2013 17:10 yamato77 wrote:I agree, the hammer vote should definitely be looked at. With that in mind, I'm not sure why CC says this: On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Why does CC not want us to put emphasis on the hammer vote? It is prime opportunity for differentiating scum from town yet he thinks it isn't? Regarding the bolded, in what way would you say it is a "prime opportunity [to] differentiate" alignments? Give me some examples. Also, I think you're just shoving words in CC's mouth. He's saying that we shouldn't shift disproportionate responsibility on the person who hammers on a lynch, and I don't see what's wrong about that statement. What is disproportionate responsibility? I think there's plenty of reason to give the hammer more look than other votes. It is the act of making the decision to lynch someone, it makes the player into the executioner. The use of the hammer vote is perhaps the most important thing in this game. You said so yourself and now you seem to disagree with me? Why? On January 06 2013 00:06 yamato77 wrote:
I will admit I'm not paying as much attention to this game as I should.
Honestly my vote on CC was to get a better read on him. Up to that point I thought he was a bit scummy so I figured his reaction to me voting for him out of nowhere might reveal to me his alignment. It turns out it didn't, but some of the things he has said since then have swayed my opinion.
I'm fairly confident in Hapa being town, so as far as active scum I don't think there are any. Jay is the only one I would question because his posts have a quality that makes them seem quiet, almost like his opinion isn't something to be valued. Is he scum trying to stay under the radar or just a weak townie?
No I'm much more inclined to think a scum lies between Mr Zentor and Rise. Zentor hasn't contributed much besides a lot of setup talk and town reads. His filter is low content, low profile, very much like I think the scum are this game.
Rise simply hasn't posted much since the beginning if the game and it is starting to make me question his motivations. Also, the way he pushes me makes me think he's a noob townie. I would expect newer players to think I'm scum, because of a lot of the things I do are obviously scummy. On January 06 2013 17:58 yamato77 wrote:
Mr Zentor
He's only given a lot of town reads and acted impatient about lynching people. His filter is full of one liners that provide little reasoning for what he wants to do this game aside from Lynch people. He seems more preoccupied with there being a lynch than who is going to be lynched. He hasn't helped town find who they should lynch, either. Hapa says he's a bored townie but he looks like a scum just waiting for an excuse to hammer a townie lynch. Xatalos + Show Spoiler +He is pretty uptight, but he makes some good points in his massive cases; he and ShiaoPi are equally likely to be scum. Well, for starters, I think you're most likely town. I can't believe a Mafia would outpost everyone in the thread and engage in every possible topic. Does that make DarthPunk Mafia in my eyes? Not really. I agree with many things he says, and his filter just reads fairly townish to me - this post for example:
In any case, I'm pretty satisfied with your responses. Your counter-arguments to my (pretty weak) arguments for your scumminess are what I'd expect from a townie: calm, collected, reasonable. Combined with Hapahauli's recommendation to wait on you, I don't see you as a good lynch at the moment.
Welcome, Z-Boson! I'm glad you're being very townish and contributive so far, which means we have one less player out of the lynching table (I didn't like lynching RiseAgain either, but this is a much easier judgement than that).
ShiaoPi + Show Spoiler +Either he or Xatalos is scum, I'm not sure which. It's pretty unlikely that they're both scum, considering how they both made cases on why the other is scum. He parks his vote on a lurker. On January 05 2013 12:14 ShiaoPi wrote:Hmm looks like RiseAgain has still not responded.... Anyway moving onto the matters more at hand for now. I don't think that DP or Hapa are scum, it feels much more like townies at each others throats for minor things. While I can see where both are coming from during the exchange I does kind of worry me that DP does not follow up with a vote as Hapa does. Does not seem to fit when he calls him scum more than once earlier. @Mr.CC Xatalos is kind of a lynchbait in itself. He is not that easy to read (at least for me), but what I have seen so far from him does not really convince me on his scumminess. From time to time he does these 180-turns but usually it is because he lays his entire thoughtprocess out and therefore every nook and turn of his mind is in the thread. He is nullish right now. I want to see more from RiseAgain, so ##Vote: RiseAgainget in here and do something please! But he also waffles over Xatalos, which makes me think he could be town. On January 06 2013 17:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay finally got some time to give out some thoughts.
First off welcome Z-Boson, good to have a active replacement!
Moving on to some housekeeping:
DP's reactions since I was gone seem to me pretty townie, by extension Hapa seems town as well with the entire thoughtprocess behind tunneling being revealed. So I am retracting my scum-leaning read that I had on DP earlier.
I am interested currently in these people:
yamato
Xatalos
MrZ
yamato:
There are many things which would probably be me reiterating stuff that was mentioned (discrepancy in behaviour as hapa said). Not being really present, throwing votes around with little reasoning. But that can be explained by his lack of time due to RL business. could really use more analysis and reasoning from him.
Xatalos:
I said earlier that Xatalos is a lynchbait. That is because he is hesitating a lot, laying out a lot of his thoughts in the thread and therefore opening himself up for harsh critique if he changes his mind and posts it. His lack of any stance is alarming though. While it is somewhat just his playstyle (IIRC) I still dislike it a lot, I mean day 1 has been going for quite a long time now already, while we did not get more information through lynching there is still a lot of content to search through and find something.
MrZ:
He is useless, which is stupidly just his meta with the lightheartedness he has shown. I don't like useless people but cannot condemn him based on this.
Actually I started this post with wanting to lynch into Xata/yamato preferrably yamato but now that I am writing those reads feel just unsatisfying...There is nothing really much that distinguishes one option from the other. I am reluctant to lynch yamato since he seems legitimately busy, also relcutant to lynch Xata for just playing as he does (same goes for MrZ).
Somehow this day 1 has not been really productive >_> Who we should lynch. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know which one we should lynch, but I know what we should do if each one is lynched.
.....................................Xatalos.................................................................................................Shiaopi............
................................../.....................\........................................................................................./..........\............
........................flips scum..........flips town..................................................................flips scum.....flips town...........................
...........................|............................|............................................................................./...............................\..................................
......find scum partner..............lynch Shia.....................................................lynch MrCC..............lynch Xatalos-.flips.scum .....
................................................../............\....................................................../..................\..............................|........................|
.....................................flips town......flips scum.............................flips scum............flips town...........flips town.......find scum
....................................|.................................|.....................................|............................|........................../.......................partner
...start suspecting people......................lynch MrCC....................win..............start suspecting people....................
...like Hapa and Boson............................/...............\.........................................like Hapa and Boson
..........................................................flips scum.......flips town...........................................................................................
........................................................./............................|...................................................................
....................................................win...................start suspecting people.....................................
............................................................................like Hapa and Boson.....................................
On January 08 2013 09:05 MrZentor wrote:
Z-Boson, I meant your entrance after the lynch.
Not your original entrance. On January 08 2013 09:07 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 09:05 MrZentor wrote:
Z-Boson, I meant your entrance after the lynch.
Not your original entrance. Well that's a plus. Answer the other questions please.
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On January 08 2013 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-bo
Let's talk about my scumreads for a minute. Why is Shaio not scum? (And to a lesser extent Jay)
Jay I'm not confident he's town, he was a slight town read, until he again said that I was a scummy "gut read" (jay was right the first time, so hey, why not say this again now to gain me some cred?). Which is troubling since I'm playing a totally different game than on hero and there's no backing up on his part. Not so sure on him anymore.
ShiaoPi is more of a town read to me in various ways. Let me refer to why you thought him scum:
ShaioPi - I've seen Shaio inactive in the early game as town on occasions. Often he feels "overwhelmed" by large #'s of players and prefers a smaller setting (as was the case in Mafia LVII early game). However, when he's town amongst a smaller group of players, he is a very capable scum-hunter and isn't afraid to take control.
The endgame of Mafia LVII is a great example of him taking control, as well as his stellar performance throughout GSL II Mini.
In this game, he's done the following:
1) Light pressure on RiseAgain
2) Questioning DP's scumread on myself
3) OMGUS vote on Xatalos
That's far less than I would expect from a townie Shaio.
His play on LVII was marked with people (me & you included), finding him scum for various reasons. Note your other case, I draw a great amount of similarities:
On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting [b] ShiaoPi[b]. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit.
So lurking and not making opinions is a no-no for shiao. What helps me to determine he's scum is the quality of his play. Day one he made a very good observation on Riseagain, and OMGUSed xatalos in quite a decent way. He had a spur of activity during that time period in his interaction when he needlessly shouldn't.
From liquid city, I find this to be particularly strong with him, given that in Liquid City he appeared only when called out. His reasoning and the quality of his cases were generally bad when he was scum (and I very quickly detected that when BH made the case), which is something that is not being repeated here, in my opinion.
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I'd really like jay and shiaopi to chime in though.
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With that I'm taking a break. I'll bbl
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On January 08 2013 10:42 MrZentor wrote:
The chart was really easy to make.
And your other question wasn't worth answering.
It's not worth answering because it doesn't make any fucking sense and you can't back it up.
Just to make sure everyone understands where I'm coming from, this is the bit I asked him about:
On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy.
His suggestion is very fucking clear and very fucking absurd.
-> I am a perfect alternative to hapa, so why didn't I die?
-> If I was town, I'd die instead of hapa, because scum wouldn't shoot hapa.
-> Hapa got shot.
-> Ergo I'm scum! Of course, there's no one else to shoot but hapa and zb!
Brilliant thinking! Sound logic! When I asked him about it, apparently it's not worth answering. He's saying I'm "prob not town" because of this logic, he doesn't explain once he's caught on to it. What's worse, he doesn't pursue it, he just goes on making more useless posts in the same manner he did day one:
On January 08 2013 12:21 MrZentor wrote:
You know, guys.
We could lynch somebody right now.
c:
On January 08 2013 12:27 MrZentor wrote:
IDK, too many scummy people.
On second thought, let's wait a few days before killing the wrong person.
He's feeling comfortable because of the townie curtain placed unto him and lowered down his activity quite significantly. There are zero sort of posts that indicate he's scum hunting.
He pushed a clear mafia agenda on lynching Xatalos, and was just "fine" with it, not wanting to push his own other scum read "yamato" at all.
His town reads on CC and DP earlier in day one are whack imo.
Hapa I'm very curious as to why a simple "meta" argument is the sole reason you are calling him town. Is there a plethora of scum games you are getting his meta from? Can you be more clear on this? I think you guys are giving him an undeserving free pass.
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On January 08 2013 15:37 yamato77 wrote:
GUYS
Hey guys.
I have a secret.
The secret is
Hapa only has town reads on scummy trolls.
Wait there's more!
If you stay a scummy troll the whole game he'll think you're CONFIRMED TOWN.
I know my plan.
That's just plain unnecessary, I think he's being way more insightful and specific than that. What the fuck is the point of that post
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On January 08 2013 10:59 Hapahauli wrote:
Shaio lurking in bigger games is pretty common. He mentioned in one of his games that he feels "lost" in the larger games and doesn't post much. You'll notice in LVII, he picked up his scum-hunting and activity in a big way when the player-pool got smaller. Also, he didn't post in LVII because of internet problems. He has no such excuse this game.
GSL II Mini is the most recent example of his town play (in a mini), where he was leading discussion for most of the game in a lurky town environment.
If he's town, he has an opportunity to prove that over the next 48 hours. Otherwise, I'm lynching him.
Ohhh, I didn't know that size of games were of importance to him. Skimming GSL II does seem like he was a bit more interested in the game, asking for reads and such. I'll go over that more carefully tomorrow when I'm less sleepy
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On January 08 2013 11:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Never a big fan of meta cases guys. People can change their playstyle on a whim. I've seen meta cases go horribly wrong many times. A little meta here or there is fine, but entire defenses / attacks based on meta don't really hold strong. I don't think we should use them to exonerate (or damn, for that matter) Shaio.
So I ask you again, what do you think of Mr.Z after the post I just made?
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On January 08 2013 15:56 Hapahauli wrote:
Ya know Z-Bo, I do think you have a very good point about MrZ.
In Witchcraft Mini, MrZ tunneled me all of Night 1 and most of Day 2 because I wasn't yet dead. While the logic is similar, the intensity with which he pushed my wagon was far different than he's doing this game. In fact in Witchcraft, he was much more concerned with scumhunting, even on Day 1.
I think the overall quality of his reads this game is fairly normal for a town MrZ. However he's been pushing his reads far differently this game.
Gah, thank you! Suggesting me as scum and just doing rats ass about it and being useless was just T_T
For now I suggest you drop these meta-ings and look at his overall play. Then when things get more decisive you bring out the meta-ing and stuff.
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On January 08 2013 15:59 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 15:44 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 08 2013 15:37 yamato77 wrote:
GUYS
Hey guys.
I have a secret.
The secret is
Hapa only has town reads on scummy trolls.
Wait there's more!
If you stay a scummy troll the whole game he'll think you're CONFIRMED TOWN.
I know my plan. That's just plain unnecessary, I think he's being way more insightful and specific than that. What the fuck is the point of that post I'm illustrating the ridiculousness of Hapa's defense of CC's play. Who honestly thinks that guy is useful at all? He's basically claiming scum with all his "tunnel me" bullshit. I don't see why he shouldn't hang.
And what about mr.Z? He was your top scum read at one point in this game. Do you still consider him a scum read?
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With that being said I'll take a better look at CC tomorrow. He's been quite active, and I'd rather lynch into people who don't really seem to give a shit.
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Hm a claim
That simplifies things
The lack of blue VT claim makes me think that we have a rolecop. No one has counterclaimed so it seems that both mr.CC and Hapa are basically confirmed town now.
And ShiaoPi is still missing.
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MrZ, why do you hate calling me town, and why am I probably town? This does not seem compatible with your earlier interactions with me
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On January 09 2013 06:57 MrZentor wrote:
You're lucky RiseAgain was obvi town. lol
So you thought Rise/me was obv town, yet earlier splurged suspicion on someone you considered as such. Bull. Shit.
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Also, I like Hapa's observation on yamato on his stance on CC, I hand't seen his "huge town read" earlier. Wonder what changed his mind
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On January 09 2013 07:03 DarthPunk wrote:
I see CC claimed medic day two :/
Well no point in not doing this now. I am Named VT. i.e. A House of Parliament.
Seems I'm 4/4 correct on you =D
This also confirms DP, imo, unless there is a counterclaim.
That leaves two out of ShiaoPi, mrZ, yamato and jay.
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On January 09 2013 07:04 MrZentor wrote:
I didn't know then, but rereading through RiseAgain's filter made it obvious to me.
I knew you were probably town from you sharing all your reads, but there's no harm in making sure by putting you under a little pressure.
You should be happy I'm adding you to my list of confirmed townies. (YaaaYYAAYYYYyyaayyy)
Oh yes, that sure looked like some pressure. You spent quite some time on me, making very precise reads on my reaction. Bs, anyone?
@DP
Still think he's town, or are you still not reading?
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On January 09 2013 07:12 MrZentor wrote:I don't know why you'd keep two obviously townie players in there.
They are not obviously town. You are taking very weak tells and making them very strong, whilst ignoring many aspects of his play. You are closer to obviously scum to me.
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On January 09 2013 07:19 MrZentor wrote:
Z-BosoN, you're silly and bad at reading both me and Jay.
I know you're town, but wasting your time accusing me, even though quite a few other townies KNOW I'm not scum, is foolish.
Go pressure somebody who is actually scum.
I trust my own reads, and saying how everybody knows you are town is not the way you can deal with my case against you.
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Just checking in, I've had a busy day, and am really really tired atm. Am going to sleep, tomorrow I'll update my reads. Pc
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Allright catching up.
Hi dandel!
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On January 09 2013 08:16 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok so based on what we got we have two candidates for lynch today.
Shiaopi and Yamato
Shaiopi has been lurking alot still.
Yamato was going after CC but after the recent claim. Has decided to go after Zentor. A person that Im slowly beginning to appreciate. :D
Going after weak/lurky/trolly townies is a pretty big scum tell. As they aren't scum but are usually lurky and scummy so easy to mislynch. Its no small reason that I have been pushed by many a scum.
I have a third candidate in mind if one of yamato or shaiopi dont flip red.
Do we have a time/date we want to consolidate on?
Why are you ignoring any discussion on him, and just state that you are beginning to "appreciate" him? What is there to appreciate?
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On January 10 2013 03:36 jaybrundage wrote:Saying scum rarely pile all there members onto a single mislynch is WIFOM. Also there is only two scum as well so it becomes alot easier to accomplish this. Also I also have a PM and mine is actually green  We both know that regardless of your alignment you would have to claim town ofc. Also Z-Boson you have kind of declined in activity. Thoughts on ShiaoPi and Dandel plz
Will take a look at dandel, lemme catch up!
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On January 10 2013 03:54 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
Welcome back Z-Bo! I am rather concerned about your recent activity of late. As well as you calling MrZ scum over and over again without actually having voted him.
Concerned how? I've been busy.
Also, I'm not placing my vote because I don't want to start an avalanche like last time, I thought you yourself wanted to drag this on longer...
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On January 10 2013 03:41 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 03:37 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 09 2013 08:16 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok so based on what we got we have two candidates for lynch today.
Shiaopi and Yamato
Shaiopi has been lurking alot still.
Yamato was going after CC but after the recent claim. Has decided to go after Zentor. A person that Im slowly beginning to appreciate. :D
Going after weak/lurky/trolly townies is a pretty big scum tell. As they aren't scum but are usually lurky and scummy so easy to mislynch. Its no small reason that I have been pushed by many a scum.
I have a third candidate in mind if one of yamato or shaiopi dont flip red.
Do we have a time/date we want to consolidate on?
Why are you ignoring any discussion on him, and just state that you are beginning to "appreciate" him? What is there to appreciate? I think i get his play style more. And I would go so far as to say that i think he is a townie. Part of it is his town read on me. And part of it is his reads in general. Also this devil may care attitude while risky seems to me like a townie that was florishing under Hapa's town read. I don't think that someone scummy who gets a town read would be quite so bold.
This makes zero sense. Scum are much more likely to give townreads. It is also troubling on how convinced he seems to be. I need some confirmation from you hapa, but in witchcraft did he also insistently just keep saying "I know he is town, I know he is scum, lynch him"? Because that sums up a large portion of what Mr.Z has been doing lately.
Also, his attitude is anti-town, he doesn't promote discussion with it and doesn't add anything.
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On January 10 2013 04:22 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 04:21 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 03:54 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
Welcome back Z-Bo! I am rather concerned about your recent activity of late. As well as you calling MrZ scum over and over again without actually having voted him. Concerned how? I've been busy. Also, I'm not placing my vote because I don't want to start an avalanche like last time, I thought you yourself wanted to drag this on longer... Well yes, but you've been 100% convinced that MrZ is scum for the better part of the last 2 days.
Did I say that somewhere?
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On January 10 2013 04:30 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 04:26 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 04:22 Hapahauli wrote:On January 10 2013 04:21 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 03:54 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Z-Bo
Welcome back Z-Bo! I am rather concerned about your recent activity of late. As well as you calling MrZ scum over and over again without actually having voted him. Concerned how? I've been busy. Also, I'm not placing my vote because I don't want to start an avalanche like last time, I thought you yourself wanted to drag this on longer... Well yes, but you've been 100% convinced that MrZ is scum for the better part of the last 2 days. Did I say that somewhere? It's kinda implied from your filter given that he's been your top scumread forevvvvvver and has done nothing to vindicate himself in your eyes since.
I don't understand you, sir. What is it you would think my vote would accomplish?
But I'll agree that I've spent a lot of time on mrZ, I'm going to work on other reads, mainly dandel right now.
Yamato seems to be a concern of some folks here, I'll go through his filter as well
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On January 10 2013 04:33 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 03:41 jaybrundage wrote:On January 10 2013 03:37 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 09 2013 08:16 jaybrundage wrote:
Ok so based on what we got we have two candidates for lynch today.
Shiaopi and Yamato
Shaiopi has been lurking alot still.
Yamato was going after CC but after the recent claim. Has decided to go after Zentor. A person that Im slowly beginning to appreciate. :D
Going after weak/lurky/trolly townies is a pretty big scum tell. As they aren't scum but are usually lurky and scummy so easy to mislynch. Its no small reason that I have been pushed by many a scum.
I have a third candidate in mind if one of yamato or shaiopi dont flip red.
Do we have a time/date we want to consolidate on?
Why are you ignoring any discussion on him, and just state that you are beginning to "appreciate" him? What is there to appreciate? I think i get his play style more. And I would go so far as to say that i think he is a townie. Part of it is his town read on me. And part of it is his reads in general. Also this devil may care attitude while risky seems to me like a townie that was florishing under Hapa's town read. I don't think that someone scummy who gets a town read would be quite so bold. This makes zero sense. Scum are much more likely to give townreads. It is also troubling on how convinced he seems to be. I need some confirmation from you hapa, but in witchcraft did he also insistently just keep saying "I know he is town, I know he is scum, lynch him"? Because that sums up a large portion of what Mr.Z has been doing lately. Also, his attitude is anti-town, he doesn't promote discussion with it and doesn't add anything. Surely you can read through his Witchcraft game and find this out for yourself no?
Or I can save time by asking a quasi-confirmed townie who's played with him on something that's pretty much a yes or no question >.<
I'll add that to my todo list
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Dandel's entrance is very unsatisfactory, imo. His entire analysis ends with the conclusion that me and yamato are scum, and that we have a pretty easy game:
yamato or Rise should be day1 lynch candidates.
Looks like a pretty easy game, which means I prolly missed something.
And in his entrance his opinions don't change all that much:
On January 09 2013 11:10 Dandel Ion wrote:
Most likely is yamato + Zbo imo.
yamato + zentor possible, but I admit I have no clue how to read that guy.
For some reason, he quickly changes his read on yamato:
On January 09 2013 22:31 Dandel Ion wrote:
Actually I changed my mind, I don't wanna lynch yamato today.
He might still be scum, but it's gotten pretty unlikely imo.
I can't fathom what is it that yamato said in this 11-hour period that so quickly changed his mind. Which, was incidentally after this post from hapa:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=57#1138
In which he gave yama a slight town read
DP has put forth his reasoning as to why he thinks yamato is town, and dandel heavily disagreed with it, but didn't include any reasoning of his own.
I am wondering right now what changed Dandel's mind so quickly in 11 hours as to supplant a read that came with more than a day's worth of analysis.
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@Dandel
If you mean this post:
On January 10 2013 04:09 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ DandelWon't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd totally lynch yamato.
Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now?
Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 09 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:
What, are you town? Cause I think your PM says the opposite >> I am. Tho i understand you thinking otherwise. How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually thoI'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah no, yamato is prob town. Yeah. That is an accurate recap of what happened. See, I would've lynched yamato for his day 1 play. When I was just reading this thread on the side, I still thought yam was being scummy for getting so irrationally angry and how he went about that anger. Now I read more than that closely, it's likely to be a town anger. Also yam is just an irrationally angry dude, not a scumtell for him. Kinda like Eywa, but without the modkills.
You add a reasoning that basically warps the same thing you used as a scumread into one that is a townread. That's awfully convenient once hapa changed his mind.
Are there more reasons as to why you suddenly changed your mind, or is this it?
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Oh, look at what I found in witchcraft. Look at reason #1:
On December 17 2012 05:28 MrZentor wrote:The List of Reasons Eywa isn't scum. (Although it should be pretty apparent to anybody that reads through his filter) 1. It's unlikely that mafia would flat out insult somebody; they want to be on everybody's good side, so that they don't get lynched
Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 03:17 Eywa- wrote:On December 17 2012 03:15 MrZentor wrote:
I'm thinking. If you weren't so busy thinking about how awesome of a player you are, maybe you'd have an answer :-/. 2. ACOLYTE IS VANILLA TOWN. That's right; he didn't scum slip. 3. He is a lot of good posts that I agree with. Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 03:07 Eywa- wrote:On December 17 2012 03:02 threesr wrote:
haven't been reading this game too close but i want to lynch jiexian
Are you for real... like, if this is the extent of your contribution, you shouldn't be playing. Clearly players are responsible for reading the thread. Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 03:56 Eywa- wrote:On December 17 2012 03:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On December 17 2012 03:49 JieXian wrote:On December 17 2012 01:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Hey guys, shenanigans here being sorted out. I'm down for a Thrawn lynch, he's a sheeping scummy dude right meow. Thrawn is an Opportunist
+ Show Spoiler +On December 15 2012 11:11 thrawn2112 wrote:ok ##Vote DjodrefShow nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:26 Djodref wrote:
Other than that, I would like everybody to give a little hindsight of their game experience, especially newbies, if there are some.
what kind of information are you looking for? Sheep on Djodref vote, hardcore. No explanation, just does it. Also, the question he asks is self-explanatory. On December 15 2012 12:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
I didn't th9nk hapa's case was super good but dp's reaction to it seems insane Slightly discredits Hapa's case, and takes the opportunity to acknowledge that DP looks scummy after an OMGUS vote (duh). He then unvotes to keep his options open. When Hapa makes his more fortified case, he suddenly believes it's some god-given scumhunting then votes for DP.
Wait, What's this?On December 15 2012 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons
1. start of the game and everyone is lurking
2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics
Didn't Thrawn V OTE for Djo based on this exact thing? He was being obsessed with blue roles / witchhunter and Thrawn sheeped the vote, supposedly because of this. Now he thinks it's not fair to accuse him? On December 16 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
oh sniped on the random lurker vote lol, sounds fun
##unvote
##Vote: Mr Cheesecake
pie is better and all you mo-fos need to start posting
Sheeps onto lurker vote opportunity. Underlined = scummiest shit ever townies like cheesecake over pie. On December 16 2012 11:38 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok here's what I probably mean about kush...
you mention his terrible ideas... yes the things he's said he'll do this game have been crazy, but that's his meta right? this game however, it seems like they are intentionally dumb. scum kush says crazier things than town kush.
he said he's not going to lynch me no matter what... is that a joke? an actual plan? the problem is I couldn't really tell.... it's so different from town oriented thinking I don't know what to make of it. the only reason I have to suspect that town kush could possibly have said that is because he's lynched me over and over for the same reasons and I keep flipping town. PROBABLY mean? What? How do you probably mean something...? Town mean things genuinely, scum try to emulate they are meaning something. The rest of this post is garbage--he comes to no read on Kush at all, just flip-flops between the possibility of town kush not wanting to lynch him and the alternative scum motivation.
Above all, Thrawn doesn't seem to care who is lynched:On December 15 2012 11:52 thrawn2112 wrote:
this conversation between the few of us is getting very tiresome
i'll lynch lurkers
LURKERS
i will happily lynch you Okay so he wants to lynch a lurker. By all means, a viable strategy considering the circumstance. But he also wants to lynch Djo, JX, DP... I'm confused. I don't see strong scum reads from him other than on JX due to obvious scumslips. He is sheeping a ton and doesn't seem too caring of who he wants to get lynched. Just look at this flip-floppiness between lurker lynching and lynching his top scumread.On December 16 2012 20:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
I suggest all town people be around during the lynch if (when?) we decide to lynch a rando lurker Maybe we could lynch a lurker! That sounds like a good idea! On December 16 2012 20:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
i still really really like it But I still really really like a JX lynch! On December 16 2012 20:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
but who knows, perhaps some lurker will die instead But maybe we could lynch a lurker! I'm all for that! Why is Thrawn so indecisive?On December 16 2012 14:04 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote:
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.
I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)
no this is a lie Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:47 JieXian wrote:Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction. but i think he's town because xLater I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot. but now i think he's town because xDjo why did you vote for Mr Zentor But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another ##Vote MrZentor the red parts are what I just now added to the 2nd post that would make the 1st post true. I bolded "but above all" because that implies you still hold your suspicions about hapa/dp. J scum-slipped hard, he lied about the scumslip, he's a lurker... and he's scum He states JX is scum. THEN WHY IS HE KEEPING HIS OPTIONS OPEN LIKE THIS? Town Thrawn would want to push this JX lynch into the ground, not be ready to jump off the wagon at the last minute to lynch a lurker. Thrawn's general posting in context of the thread seems very opportunistic. The way he jumps on JX's vote post of Mr.Z is just that, scum trying to find easy things to tackle people on. I have no clue, if town, why he's willing to lynch a lurker right now if he's set on JX being scum.
##Vote: Thrawn On December 17 2012 02:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On December 17 2012 02:50 kushm4sta wrote:
we really need a vote count...
We only have 3 hours left... people should not be discussing anything but the lynch.
Who are teh viable lynches at this point?
Is anyone adverse to lynching a lurker? Yes we need a vote count. I want to lynch Thrawn but I don't think anyone is biting atm... Who'd you have in mind for lurkers? On December 17 2012 02:52 JieXian wrote:
read my filter please, I'm still waiting for his reply On December 17 2012 02:57 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
JX, that post wasn't even directed towards / had anything to do with you. So you posted your long wall of text case against thrawn for shits and giggles? I get it Jx, you're really paranoid. If I could lynch thrawn I would. But apparently everyone wants you dead, and I can see why. That's pretty much how it seems this game is going to go "We want you dead" even though he in no way seems to be guilty. I hope someone sees reason before the vote is final.
Why does yama escape this "town read" with his blatant anger toward CC?
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On January 10 2013 05:17 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 05:12 Z-BosoN wrote:@DandelIf you mean this post: On January 10 2013 04:09 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ DandelWon't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd totally lynch yamato.
Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now?
Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 09 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:
What, are you town? Cause I think your PM says the opposite >> I am. Tho i understand you thinking otherwise. How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually thoI'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah no, yamato is prob town. Yeah. That is an accurate recap of what happened. See, I would've lynched yamato for his day 1 play. When I was just reading this thread on the side, I still thought yam was being scummy for getting so irrationally angry and how he went about that anger. Now I read more than that closely, it's likely to be a town anger. Also yam is just an irrationally angry dude, not a scumtell for him. Kinda like Eywa, but without the modkills. You add a reasoning that basically warps the same thing you used as a scumread into one that is a townread. That's awfully convenient once hapa changed his mind. Are there more reasons as to why you suddenly changed your mind, or is this it? Ya okay, you're scum.
Answer me, please.
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On January 10 2013 05:25 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 05:17 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 05:12 Z-BosoN wrote:@DandelIf you mean this post: On January 10 2013 04:09 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ DandelWon't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd totally lynch yamato.
Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now?
Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 09 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:
What, are you town? Cause I think your PM says the opposite >> I am. Tho i understand you thinking otherwise. How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually thoI'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah no, yamato is prob town. Yeah. That is an accurate recap of what happened. See, I would've lynched yamato for his day 1 play. When I was just reading this thread on the side, I still thought yam was being scummy for getting so irrationally angry and how he went about that anger. Now I read more than that closely, it's likely to be a town anger. Also yam is just an irrationally angry dude, not a scumtell for him. Kinda like Eywa, but without the modkills. You add a reasoning that basically warps the same thing you used as a scumread into one that is a townread. That's awfully convenient once hapa changed his mind. Are there more reasons as to why you suddenly changed your mind, or is this it? Ya okay, you're scum. Answer me, please. Tell you what, a while back you said you'd go through yamato's filter, but you didn't say shit about it. Which means you were doing nothing and you were waiting to gauge if you should pile shit on yamato, or, if he wasn't looking likely, on somebody else. I'm "pleased" to see you chose me. Now, share with me, when you looked at yamato's filter like you said you did, what made you shut up and not say anything about it, only to start flinging shit on me? Also, you mention how I somehow molded my read after Hapa, and since I personally know this to be incorrect, I have uncovered your own strategy. You've seen Hapa's willingness to lynch me, so now you want a piece of it. Just like jay does. Jay and Zbo jay and zbo hmmmmmmm looks legit.
I'm not too interested in yamato, his play has been pretty active, and was very persistent in his reads. Newer players generally don't behave so, especially with someone like hapa pressuring them the other way. I started flinging shit at you as soon as I caught up the thread, in which I saw a fairly understandable scum read turn into a "prob town read" for.... crap.
ShiaoPi became suspicious to me much before you came here, in an interaction with hapa I'm sure you've read. If there is anything unnatural or "opportunistic" about me agreeing with hapa with said discussion, let me know. Otherwise you can keep saying I'm scum without arguing or giving any reasoning and I'm sure that's gonna suit you well.
Why are you dodging the question? Still trying to think on what you can say?
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Ah, ok that's what I thought.
town, dummy, can't you read? I just gave you my reasonings.
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That's retarded, what is your point?
If later on he gives me any reason for me to think he is scum, then I will definitely try to lynch him.
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On January 10 2013 05:50 Dandel Ion wrote:
So why do you go for me, Hapas lynch of choice, with the reasoning that I just sheep Hapas opinion?
Have you heard of the principle of "hypocrisy"?
And how do you plan on explaining that it's such a sure scumtell on me, but doesn't apply to you?
Why are you so defensive? When did I say "sure scumtell"? Afaik, I said I disliked your posting so far, especially because of the yamato thing, and asked you a question.
Also, you are confusing things, and I think you didn't read that part where I thought ShiaoPi was townie for reasons that Hapa showed to be wrong. Shiao then disappeared and got replaced. It is but natural you get pressured when you join the thread. Also, I'm not saying "OMG YOU SHEEP HAPA!".
I'm saying that your actions, your abandonment of a scumread based on more than a day's worth of reading based on... nothing? Is suspicious, and quite convenient given that hapa showed in that post that he didn't really want to lynch him. Do you see the difference? Not hypocrisy.
And one more question, why do you think I'm scum? Is it still by elimination?
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lol dandel, if he's scum and you're town, the correct word is "mislynch"
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On January 10 2013 06:04 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 05:59 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 05:50 Dandel Ion wrote:
So why do you go for me, Hapas lynch of choice, with the reasoning that I just sheep Hapas opinion?
Have you heard of the principle of "hypocrisy"?
And how do you plan on explaining that it's such a sure scumtell on me, but doesn't apply to you? Why are you so defensive? When did I say "sure scumtell"? Afaik, I said I disliked your posting so far, especially because of the yamato thing, and asked you a question. Also, you are confusing things, and I think you didn't read that part where I thought ShiaoPi was townie for reasons that Hapa showed to be wrong. Shiao then disappeared and got replaced. It is but natural you get pressured when you join the thread. Also, I'm not saying "OMG YOU SHEEP HAPA!". I'm saying that your actions, your abandonment of a scumread based on more than a day's worth of reading based on... nothing? Is suspicious, and quite convenient given that hapa showed in that post that he didn't really want to lynch him. Do you see the difference? Not hypocrisy. And one more question, why do you think I'm scum? Is it still by elimination? No because the way you push me is scummy as shit, just like jay's. You keep saying the bolded, but I told you it's not true. Stop it or I'mma think you're intentionally lying. Why oh why would you do such a thing? But this part takes the cake: Show nested quote +Also, you are confusing things, and I think you didn't read that part where I thought ShiaoPi was townie for reasons that Hapa showed to be wrong. Shiao then disappeared and got replaced. It is but natural you get pressured when you join the thread. Also, I'm not saying "OMG YOU SHEEP HAPA!". 1) I don't think you're scum but I want to lynch you 2) I pressured you because "it's natural to do so" 3) Yes, you said exactly that. All those points are scummy as fuck and you're scum.
LOL?! Not true? Check this, my friend:
On January 10 2013 05:40 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 05:35 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 05:25 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 05:19 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 05:17 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 05:12 Z-BosoN wrote:@DandelIf you mean this post: On January 10 2013 04:09 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ DandelWon't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd totally lynch yamato.
Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now?
Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:46 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually thoI'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah no, yamato is prob town. Yeah. That is an accurate recap of what happened. See, I would've lynched yamato for his day 1 play. When I was just reading this thread on the side, I still thought yam was being scummy for getting so irrationally angry and how he went about that anger. Now I read more than that closely, it's likely to be a town anger. Also yam is just an irrationally angry dude, not a scumtell for him. Kinda like Eywa, but without the modkills. You add a reasoning that basically warps the same thing you used as a scumread into one that is a townread. That's awfully convenient once hapa changed his mind. Are there more reasons as to why you suddenly changed your mind, or is this it? Ya okay, you're scum. Answer me, please. Tell you what, a while back you said you'd go through yamato's filter, but you didn't say shit about it. Which means you were doing nothing and you were waiting to gauge if you should pile shit on yamato, or, if he wasn't looking likely, on somebody else. I'm "pleased" to see you chose me. Now, share with me, when you looked at yamato's filter like you said you did, what made you shut up and not say anything about it, only to start flinging shit on me? Also, you mention how I somehow molded my read after Hapa, and since I personally know this to be incorrect, I have uncovered your own strategy. You've seen Hapa's willingness to lynch me, so now you want a piece of it. Just like jay does. Jay and Zbo jay and zbo hmmmmmmm looks legit. I'm not too interested in yamato, his play has been pretty active, and was very persistent in his reads. Newer players generally don't behave so, especially with someone like hapa pressuring them the other way. I started flinging shit at you as soon as I caught up the thread, in which I saw a fairly understandable scum read turn into a "prob town read" for.... crap. ShiaoPi became suspicious to me much before you came here, in an interaction with hapa I'm sure you've read. If there is anything unnatural or "opportunistic" about me agreeing with hapa with said discussion, let me know. Otherwise you can keep saying I'm scum without arguing or giving any reasoning and I'm sure that's gonna suit you well. Why are you dodging the question? Still trying to think on what you can say? Yeah I have no reasons at all. I just make stuff up.NOW: YAMATO TOWN OR SCUM I'm feeling nice, so you don't even have to explain your townread either. No need to really. But what I want you to do, and you still haven't done, is give a stance on yamato. This is a time where stances have to be taken, and scum is the party that benefits the most from not doing that. So take a stance. You've said nothing about yamato, in neither direction. Even though you promised to look through his filter and stuff. So I want you to say one of those words: 1) town 2) scum Don't take too long, else I'll assume you'll have to go look for reasons.
I don't care if it's sarcastic or not, what's the town motivation in this? If you ahve reasons why are you not saying? You haven't shown me it's false, you used sarcasm to make us think you have actual reasoning when you in fact don't. Fact of the matter is, unless you tell them like a good boy, to me and to no one in this thread, you have ZERO reasons for your switch on yamato.
Also, this:
1) I don't think you're scum but I want to lynch you
2) I pressured you because "it's natural to do so"
3) Yes, you said exactly that.
Is horseshit. I think you are scum. Tell me where I said that I "don't think you are scum" since you got replaced and I will vote myself. Go ahead, find it, I dare you, I double dare you motherfucker. You are just making stuff up. What gives?
I am pressuring you because I think you are scum. I'm interested in why you accuse my pressure of being "convenient" and thus making me a hypocrite, when it is clear from my filter that I was already inclined to do so.
Try again.
Oh and try painting my name in red and using [big] tags. That might help maybe.
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On January 10 2013 06:07 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 06:04 Dandel Ion wrote:But this part takes the cake: Also, you are confusing things, and I think you didn't read that part where I thought ShiaoPi was townie for reasons that Hapa showed to be wrong. Shiao then disappeared and got replaced. It is but natural you get pressured when you join the thread. Also, I'm not saying "OMG YOU SHEEP HAPA!". 1) I don't think you're scum but I want to lynch you 2) I pressured you because "it's natural to do so" 3) Yes, you said exactly that. All those points are scummy as fuck and you're scum. Not to mention there's another "I think something but Hapa doesn't agree so I changed my mind" in there too. Like This is the scummiest paragraph I've ever read, In i've read people claim scum.
Bold it!! Please quote it!! You can't be that bad in interpreting things.
The only part I ever thought SP was town was before you were born. That's a whole other story you are warping to fit your own agenda.
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Yea dandel is scum. There are two things he's accused me of saying and is not gonna be able to quote them. I love it when scum don't bother reading and are desperate to bullshit.
mr.Zentor, buddy boy, how have you been?
+ Show Spoiler +
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So Hapa, what do you make of our little interaction?
I'm known for misinterpreting things but I think Dandel is taking it to a whole other level.
Since you're mr. Interpretation and semantics guy, what is your verdict, your honor?
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On January 10 2013 06:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Can I not be the arbiter of justice for a day and see everyone make and push their own conclusions? That would be FANTASTIC.
Well fuck, I've reached my conclusion, Dandel is scum. There's really nothing I can add. If you wanna lay back and chill, go away and we'll chat tomorrow
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On January 10 2013 06:36 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Shaio seemed more scum than Dandel. Problem is they are the same person. What do.
Are you blind? Read our interaction. He's 10x more scummy than shiao imo. He's warping things and putting words in my mouth left and right to push his agenda
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Yea we are gonna have to wait on him for that, he just waited like 10 min and scrammed cause no one was answering him (when both me and jay were there).
Such bad misinterpretation needs to be justified. I want to see if he's gonna actually read to try and figure out what I mean by all of it and what I've been saying all along or if he's gonna just stick with the shit he's saying.
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Ok, I've skimmed over our dearest mr.Z in WC, and here are my conclusions.
1. His "certainty" is a null-tell.
I'm not going to quote shits, but there are some posts which mrZ, as town, is "certain" of things when he's not. So that's not a good tell.
What I did notice, though, was:
2. He showed interest in pursuing his reads and on who got lynched.
In his early days, he was very persistent about hapa being scum. He also displayed some interest in the lynch target, mainly Hapa:
On December 18 2012 02:23 MrZentor wrote:
Why not?
Hapa should be dead. He's not
That means one of the following
1. He is town and didn't get blue
a. This is one possibility, and if this is true, there's nothing wrong with us revealing who voted for him.
2. He is town and got blue, the the mafia haven't tried to shoot him.
a. But this doesn't make sense, because it is more likely that Hap got blue than DP, so the mafia would naturally try to shoot him first.
3. He is mafia and got blue, but heis lying about it, so he doesn't get caught.
a. This is another possibility, and we can see if this is true or not by everybody claiming if they voted for him or not.
So basically, we can tell if he's scum or not by revealing our votes, and it's unlikely mafia can do anything about it.
And by god did he insist in pursuing that read:
On December 18 2012 02:27 MrZentor wrote:
Exactly, everybody who voted for Hapa should reveal their vote.
I did not vote for Hapa.
On December 18 2012 02:42 MrZentor wrote:
From the scum perspective, assuming Hapa is town, you know townies are going to vote for the most townie townie, AKA Hapa.
Also, because you want to save your precious bullets, the list of people you shoot goes from most townie(Hapa) to less townie but still pretty townie (DP).
So, if Hapa is town, the mafia already tried to shoot him.
**To note. He was very ready and willing about explaining his nk logic in WC. Here, when I questioned him, he passed it off as "not worthy", when I think I'd made a fairly good point.
He really wants him dead:
On December 18 2012 07:05 MrZentor wrote:
Finally, people seeing Hap's scumminess.
c:
On December 18 2012 07:11 MrZentor wrote:
Hapa, answer the question.
Now. ##Vote Hapahauli
On December 18 2012 07:37 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 07:32 DoYouHas wrote:On December 18 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote:
DYH, your case is bad.
Scum would have tried to shoot Hapa before DP.
And your whole case is based on that not being true.
Wrong, your case is based on that assumption being true, mine is not. My case is based on you pushing a strategy that would reveal whether hapa is blue or not when he is still potentially in danger of being silver shot. My case is based on acknowledging that you don't know exactly how scum are operating, which you clearly don't, because you want to lynch hapa. If Hapa was town, then Mafia wouldn't have any silver bullets left. It's pretty simple, and the reasoning behind it is solid. If he were truly a blue, then he would have nothing to fear from the witch hunter. Anyways, originally, my plan was going to reveal if Hapa were scum or not; I had a null read on him. And then Hapa started acting really scummy. Like REALLY scummy. So no, my read on Hapa isn't all based on that assumption being true. In fact, it isn't based on that assumption at all, as my plan didn't succeed, and we didn't gain any information from it.
Later on when he thinks DYH is scum, with better chance to flip scum than CC, he goes around pushing his reads:
On December 20 2012 02:44 MrZentor wrote:
As scum the easiest thing to do is to pick a target (me) and push that target the whole game, ignoring everything else.
And DYH isn't strong or confident. He's just mindlessly pushing for my lynch. It's an extremely easy to execute and effective scum strategy.
Also, I am SUCH an easy target.
On December 20 2012 02:50 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 02:47 JieXian wrote:On December 20 2012 02:44 MrZentor wrote:
As scum the easiest thing to do is to pick a target (me) and push that target the whole game, ignoring everything else.
And DYH isn't strong or confident. He's just mindlessly pushing for my lynch. It's an extremely easy to execute and effective scum strategy.
Also, I am SUCH an easy target. I was an easy target D1 was everyone who were pushing for me scum? The reason DYH is scum isn't that he is pushing an easy target. You're missing the point. He's tunneling me, all game, ignoring everything else. That's scum play. Who else has done that?
He won't have it any other way, DYH has to be lynched:
On December 20 2012 03:07 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2012 02:58 Eywa- wrote:On December 20 2012 02:55 MrZentor wrote:On December 20 2012 02:52 Eywa- wrote:On December 20 2012 02:50 MrZentor wrote:On December 20 2012 02:47 JieXian wrote:On December 20 2012 02:44 MrZentor wrote:
As scum the easiest thing to do is to pick a target (me) and push that target the whole game, ignoring everything else.
And DYH isn't strong or confident. He's just mindlessly pushing for my lynch. It's an extremely easy to execute and effective scum strategy.
Also, I am SUCH an easy target. I was an easy target D1 was everyone who were pushing for me scum? The reason DYH is scum isn't that he is pushing an easy target. You're missing the point. He's tunneling me, all game, ignoring everything else. That's scum play. Who else has done that? I have... But it's because I'm right and I've never second guessed... Evidence just piles on and on and on. No, you have commented on other things beside who you want to kill many times; you're not ignoring everything else like he is. Commented on, never changed my mind. Also, CC is neither lurking nor asleep, he is actively posting and ignoring my previous post (likely because he is stuck between a rock and a hard place). Yeah, I don't care if you changed your mind or not. The point is that you are a town with a strong (albeit probably wrong) scum read, so you do more than just tunnel CC. DYH is a scum using his "scum read"on me as an excuse to not participate in any other discussion.
On December 20 2012 03:15 MrZentor wrote:
Eywa, I know you're town.
I have looked at both DYH and CC, and DYH has a much better chance of flipping scum.
I'm pretty sure you know I'm town, so you can trust that I'm not scum trying to save my scum buddy.
You're not going to be able to get CC lynched today, and it would be really awful for town if we had a no lynch.
Vote for DYH.
On December 20 2012 03:38 MrZentor wrote:
Eywa, CC isn't going to get lynched today.
Consolidating our votes gives us more power as town over who is lynched.
We need 5/6 of town to vote for scum to kill one of them.
Please vote for DYH.
My conclusion with this is that mrZ's earlier actions in day one, where he took the stance of "eh, I don't care who gets lynched, so long as it's yama or xatalos" is in stark contrast of his attitude on Hapa and DYH on witchcraft.
There's also one very interesting thing from his filter there: he likes to focus on one scum at a time, something which hasn't showed here.
At no point does he pressure or try to convince people to lynch yama, he just keeps saying he's scum and that's pretty much it.
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On January 10 2013 07:01 MrZentor wrote:This game and Witchcraft Mafia are completely different. In Witchcraft Mafia, if I wasn't able to convince people DYH was scum within the 48 hour day, he wouldn't die. I had to actively push my scum reads. In British Empire Mini Mafia, the days only end when a lynch has occurred. Because of this mechanic, all I have to do is make sure that when we lynch, we lynch one of my scum reads. I can passively push my scum reads and still be successful, due to the mechanics of this game. I hope that explains my change in play.
But you are rushing the lynches here. You really wanted to lynch yama, but now people are going away from that lynch. You really seem to think he's scum, so why aren't you passively pushing yama?
You're setting yourself up with two choices, yama and dandel, but you were waaaay more insistent with yama. Only when the thread changed to dandel did you really want to kill him. Why are you so indifferent? You never had "top two" scumreads in WC..
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On January 10 2013 07:03 MrZentor wrote:
Z-Boson has always looked and been pretty town.
He just doesn't know how to read me. Also, he doesn't realize he doesn't know how to read me.
Which is kind of annoying.
I thought you said you loved it :'(
And I don't know if I know how to read you or not yet, I'll only find out once you die :/
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On January 10 2013 07:12 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:07 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 07:01 MrZentor wrote:This game and Witchcraft Mafia are completely different. In Witchcraft Mafia, if I wasn't able to convince people DYH was scum within the 48 hour day, he wouldn't die. I had to actively push my scum reads. In British Empire Mini Mafia, the days only end when a lynch has occurred. Because of this mechanic, all I have to do is make sure that when we lynch, we lynch one of my scum reads. I can passively push my scum reads and still be successful, due to the mechanics of this game. I hope that explains my change in play. But you are rushing the lynches here. You really wanted to lynch yama, but now people are going away from that lynch. You really seem to think he's scum, so why aren't you passively pushing yama? You're setting yourself up with two choices, yama and dandel, but you were waaaay more insistent with yama. Only when the thread changed to dandel did you really want to kill him. Why are you so indifferent? You never had "top two" scumreads in WC.. Yama and Dandel are both scum. Sure, I wanted to kill Yama first, but if other people want to kill Dandel first, that's fine. Obviously I'm indifferent as to which one dies because they're both scum. In Witchcraft Mafia, DYH was pretty obviously mafia, so I had one scum read. In this game, I had a much easier time finding town than scum, so of course I would discover the two scum at once through process of elimination. I don't see why me having two scum reads as opposed to one is important to you?
Cause in WC you specifically stated that you liked focusing on one scum read at a time:
On December 20 2012 03:20 MrZentor wrote:
I like to focus on one scum at a time. It's best to only make theories about connections after the flip.
At here you have been making connections since day one.
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On January 10 2013 07:17 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:15 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 07:12 MrZentor wrote:On January 10 2013 07:07 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 07:01 MrZentor wrote:This game and Witchcraft Mafia are completely different. In Witchcraft Mafia, if I wasn't able to convince people DYH was scum within the 48 hour day, he wouldn't die. I had to actively push my scum reads. In British Empire Mini Mafia, the days only end when a lynch has occurred. Because of this mechanic, all I have to do is make sure that when we lynch, we lynch one of my scum reads. I can passively push my scum reads and still be successful, due to the mechanics of this game. I hope that explains my change in play. But you are rushing the lynches here. You really wanted to lynch yama, but now people are going away from that lynch. You really seem to think he's scum, so why aren't you passively pushing yama? You're setting yourself up with two choices, yama and dandel, but you were waaaay more insistent with yama. Only when the thread changed to dandel did you really want to kill him. Why are you so indifferent? You never had "top two" scumreads in WC.. Yama and Dandel are both scum. Sure, I wanted to kill Yama first, but if other people want to kill Dandel first, that's fine. Obviously I'm indifferent as to which one dies because they're both scum. In Witchcraft Mafia, DYH was pretty obviously mafia, so I had one scum read. In this game, I had a much easier time finding town than scum, so of course I would discover the two scum at once through process of elimination. I don't see why me having two scum reads as opposed to one is important to you? Cause in WC you specifically stated that you liked focusing on one scum read at a time: On December 20 2012 03:20 MrZentor wrote:
I like to focus on one scum at a time. It's best to only make theories about connections after the flip. At here you have been making connections since day one. Yeah, I just said that because Eywa was being stupid and I wanted him to stop.
Hm. I'll think about it.
Let's talk a bit about yamato. Why do you think he's scum?
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Also, @ CC, you should enjoy the benefits of being confirmed town and actually give us some thoughts and analysis and stuff. Do you also think that both yama and dandel are scum?
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So everybody is a pretty strong town read. Why did jay get the except maybe?
On January 09 2013 08:17 MrZentor wrote:
I don't really have to push my scumread; that's the beauty of this type of game.
I can just wait for town to realize he's scum.
I mean, who else could they lynch but scum?
Everybody else is pretty obviously town.
Except maybe Jay, but I'll make sure they don't lynch him.
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On January 10 2013 07:34 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty confident this Z is town. A lot of effort going over his past game. He seems to care a ton and isn't facerolling over this Dandel lynch -- wants to pursue other reads such as his evil twin brother Mr. Z.
But yeah. I'm not convinced of Jays towniness, and still Mr. Z irks me. Scumteam still most likely two of the three Yamato / Jay / Dandel. I'll provide the hammer on any if y'all want. Becareful Z-Boson is actually especially good at making long thought out cases on people when he'sscum. So i would be hesitant to call it a townie trait.
So what would you call me?
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On January 10 2013 07:44 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 07:42 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 07:34 jaybrundage wrote:On January 10 2013 07:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Yeah, I'm pretty confident this Z is town. A lot of effort going over his past game. He seems to care a ton and isn't facerolling over this Dandel lynch -- wants to pursue other reads such as his evil twin brother Mr. Z.
But yeah. I'm not convinced of Jays towniness, and still Mr. Z irks me. Scumteam still most likely two of the three Yamato / Jay / Dandel. I'll provide the hammer on any if y'all want. Becareful Z-Boson is actually especially good at making long thought out cases on people when he'sscum. So i would be hesitant to call it a townie trait. So what would you call me? I have gone over this read my filter
You mean this passage?
I am not sure about Z-Boson but a couple of townies have a town read on him. So No go for that lynch today.
Take a stance. Why are you not so sure about me, despite being fairly sure that dandel/yam are the scumteam?
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Guys, be patient. Let's wait to see what he has to say, at least until hapa gets back and has a say. Don't hammer.
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Right, still, be patient. Both hapa and dandel are not here. Let's hear what they have to say first.
I'm gonna go to the gym, I'll bbl.
Remember that hammering means you just cut down hapa's participation in the game to 24 hours. Don't hammer.
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Guess I'm late for the party
He needed to die pretty bad. Really bad play, he was so full of shit it was unbelievable.
As it stands we are in mylo. NK is 100% going through, and right now we are at 2 / 5. After nk we will be in a 2 / 4 mylo. No more mislynches as doctor can't save anyone else.
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@Hapa
Pushing mafia objectives all game long, and of course, all without proper reasoning, refusing to discuss certain aspects and not really pushing him in a way similar to WC. Mr.Z = scum as I've been saying all along
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On January 10 2013 11:38 MrZentor wrote:
idk
If I'm scum, who's scum number 2?
prob jay, someone you've been passing off as a top scumread for questionable reasons and didn't discuss, same person who pointed fingers at hapa, a confirmed town, for not having a vote in any lynch.
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On January 10 2013 11:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 11:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 11:38 MrZentor wrote:
idk
If I'm scum, who's scum number 2? prob jay, someone you've been passing off as a top scumread for questionable reasons and didn't discuss, same person who pointed fingers at hapa, a confirmed town, for not having a vote in any lynch. He had him as confirmed town?
Duh. That's what I meant. Questionable town read
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On January 10 2013 11:48 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 11:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 11:38 MrZentor wrote:
idk
If I'm scum, who's scum number 2? prob jay, someone you've been passing off as a top scumread for questionable reasons and didn't discuss, same person who pointed fingers at hapa, a confirmed town, for not having a vote in any lynch. Do you think scum would forget hapa got shot and was saved by doctor?
The fact that you are mentioning this is indicative that you were thinking about using this as an argument when you went after CC.
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On January 10 2013 11:53 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 11:52 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 11:48 jaybrundage wrote:On January 10 2013 11:40 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 10 2013 11:38 MrZentor wrote:
idk
If I'm scum, who's scum number 2? prob jay, someone you've been passing off as a top scumread for questionable reasons and didn't discuss, same person who pointed fingers at hapa, a confirmed town, for not having a vote in any lynch. Do you think scum would forget hapa got shot and was saved by doctor? The fact that you are mentioning this is indicative that you were thinking about using this as an argument when you went after CC. What? You're not making sense..
That's WIFOM. You could have gone after CC on purpose, thinking it would make you look townie because scum wouldn't do that.
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@CC
I'm also a "confirmed town read" for mr.Z, lest you forget. His only non-town read is yamato now. Which town read will he choose to cancel, I wonder?
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Scumteam is mr.Z/Jay. Tomorrow I'll go through jay's filter and confirm this, I've already said enough about mr.Z
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Hapa, I don't get why you wait until you can't reply for you to question things I'm doing. I've been very clear about my reads, in fact, I think I pushed more reads than you did. The only person you really pushed was ShiaoPi. The rest of your play is just prodding around and asking questions, and I can find many times where you don't respond to your prods (Such as when I went into WC skimming mr.Z's filter and you didn't comment on a single thing I'd said about his meta).
I don't know if you noticed, but I'm prodding around everywhere, and I'm not gonna post every single thing that comes to my head unless I find good reason for it. I agreed with DP quite a bit on his case on CC, but as the day dragged on, he seemed to be trying really hard, and there's no point for me to push him when there are at least two other people pushing him, and CC became quite active.
With yamato, the post you cited was when you were asking him a bunch of questions and he was pushing CC, and again, I felt no need to comment on my own conclusions.
ShiaoPi I was clear in why I thought he was townie earlier with comparisons to LVII, and if you had a problem with that I have no idea why you are bringing it up now.
I'm rather disappointed, I must say. In a game where we are both townie, with you confirmed, I expected to be discussing the thread with you, but you didn't budge and said it was for "your approval", keeping your distance.
And now, when you have little to no time, you decide it's time to actually question me and my actions, when you could have already been doing so all along.
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See what I'm sayin' Hapa?
Are you gonna answer what I said?
Cause you are misrepresenting me like a bauss.
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Oh wait I shouldn't seek your approval. Carry on >.<
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Let's read these cases and see if they all fit
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On January 11 2013 08:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@Z-Bo
Didn't have time 2 play today.
Also, the whole reason we're in this mess is because the town has been too dependent on me for discussion rather than generating discussion themselves. If you're town, you have the opportunity to prove me wrong in the next few hours and tomorrow.
Yea but then when I came in you backed off and left it to me to sprout discussion. Discussion in which I tried to include you in and now is being referred to as "seeking approval".
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Anyways, I'm heading off to the gym, had a stressful day
I'll be back later
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On January 11 2013 08:48 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 08:46 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 11 2013 08:43 Hapahauli wrote:
@Z-Bo
Didn't have time 2 play today.
Also, the whole reason we're in this mess is because the town has been too dependent on me for discussion rather than generating discussion themselves. If you're town, you have the opportunity to prove me wrong in the next few hours and tomorrow. Yea but then when I came in you backed off and left it to me to sprout discussion. Discussion in which I tried to include you in and now is being referred to as "seeking approval". The approval stuff is wider than that. I keep telling you not to do it, and you kept doing it. Anyway, u still sold on MrZ/Jay scumteam?
Dude, what is wrong about wanting feedback from a confirmed townie? I have my own opinions and wanting to discuss them and hear your thoughts is not "seeking approval".
Read my scum filter in Hero, where I "seeked approval" from marv and see the difference of what I understand to be your point.
Im going to read over these last few pages later when I get back, but as it seems, it looks a hell of a lot like Jay decided to bus. mr.Z was townie to him all game along, and suddenly it's his strongest scumread.
I don't see yamato being scum really, so that's what's left. I will reevaluate tomorrow though, when I'm better informed.
Heading off for reals now
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@Mr.Z
You are pretty much full of shit.
On January 11 2013 08:52 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 08:49 jaybrundage wrote:On January 11 2013 08:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Jay
Who is Mr. Z's scumbuddy? Go. Z-Boson i said this in my case Except that Z-Boson is trying to get me lynched. Anybody who thinks I'm scum must think that scum is trying to bus. Which is extremely unlikely. -.-You guys aren't being logical.
Why is bussing extremely unlikely?? Where on earth is that a valid premise? It's not, scum bus all the time.
On January 11 2013 08:56 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 08:55 jaybrundage wrote:On January 11 2013 08:51 Hapahauli wrote:On January 11 2013 08:49 jaybrundage wrote:On January 11 2013 08:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
@Jay
Who is Mr. Z's scumbuddy? Go. Z-Boson i said this in my case That makes a terrible amount of sense. Yamato doesnt make any sense as Zentor as been pushing him sense day one. So that leaves Z-Boson. Also CC you not giving your thoughts on my case only limits discussion. The more we talk the better read you can have on me. Dont have a confirmation bias on me. As its only gonna make you mislynch me. Do you know why neither you, nor Z-Boson, nor even Yamato make sense as my scum partner? Because I don't have any. <3
Oh no, see, jay makes perfect sense as your scumbuddy. You keep passing it off as too stupid to be plausible (WIFOM), but lets look at jay's progression on his read on you throughout the game:
"Mr.Z is town because he thinks I'm town"
On January 10 2013 09:59 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 09:57 Hapahauli wrote:
So you think MrZ is town because he things you're town? Thats part of it. But i also explained it a bit somewhere in my filter
Then, Dandel comes out as town, hapa says mr.Z is assuredly scum, and lots and lots of pressure piling up on mr.Z:
"Hmm, I'll have to reconsider:"
On January 10 2013 17:16 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 16:46 yamato77 wrote:On January 10 2013 16:44 jaybrundage wrote:On January 10 2013 15:38 yamato77 wrote:
Moving forward, I think the best plan of action is to sit on the assumption that we can lynch Zentor at any point, and hunt for either his scum mate, or in the small likelihood that he's actually town, find the real scum. We can lynch anyone at anypoint. If it's very unlikely that hes town then why wouldn't you just lynch him? You should always lynch your best scum read. Never ever save a lynch for later on someone you think is scum. There's always the possibility that Zentor is town, isn't there? I mean we just saw a townie self-destruct yesterday. I agree he is probably scum, but even if he is I think the better move is to sit on the idea for at least a few hours. If you disagree, I want to know how you're so certain he'll flip. Im not really certain about anything at this point. We still have a similar pool to lynch in but I have added Zentor to that lynch. I'm not as sure as i was about him as before. His im not going to post crap was dumb to say the least.
And then, finally, mr.Z is definitely scum:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=75#1483
Does this seem natural to anyone else? Also, look at one of the reasoning jay in his case on mr.Z:
When someone questions him on his town reads. And why hes so confident in them. he comes back with that he is right.
They were all confirmed town. How could he be so confident unless he knows more then the regular townie would. He would know if he was scum.
Suddenly the very same reason that was used to make mr.Z town is being warped to make him scum. Jay is warping reasons to suit his purposes, so that's pretty much BS. None of the things in Jay's case were discussed by him. He's been pressuring mr.Z as town for quite a while, with this suspicious as fuck last minute switch.
Think if this makes ANY sense from a town perspective. Also, note how uncharacteristically long jay's case is. It's meant to be convincing and big and townie looking. When Jay was townie in Hero Mafia, there is not a single case that looks anything like it. Here is from the last few pages of his play in hero, which actually got to mylo:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&user=56992¤tpage=5
See the difference?
Mr.Z's meta is off, as I've showed here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=62#1235
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Don't hammer me you idiots, I'm town.
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No, you've had your bullshitting, it's my turn to show that you are pretty full of it
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Observe how jay will suddenly get convinced I'm scum despite his enourmous and thought out post on mr.Z
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Anyone please tell me if this can come from a townie:
On January 08 2013 08:32 MrZentor wrote:
Also, if Z Boson were town, he'd probably be dead.
He was a perfect alternative to Hapa, because the scum knew that if there were a doctor, the doctor would surely protect Hapa. This make Z Boson a safe kill for night one.
And his entrance and excuse are scummy.
On January 09 2013 06:57 MrZentor wrote:
You're lucky RiseAgain was obvi town. lol
On January 10 2013 07:03 MrZentor wrote:
Z-Boson has always looked and been pretty town.
He just doesn't know how to read me. Also, he doesn't realize he doesn't know how to read me.
Which is kind of annoying.
On January 09 2013 07:19 MrZentor wrote:
Z-BosoN, you're silly and bad at reading both me and Jay.
I know you're town, but wasting your time accusing me, even though quite a few other townies KNOW I'm not scum, is foolish.
Go pressure somebody who is actually scum.
What does the first post have to do with the other three? If I had been town all along, why the sudden suspicion? He is bullshitting and you guys are choosing not to see it.
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On January 11 2013 11:17 MrZentor wrote:
And Yamato won't lynch Z-Bo, as predicted.
I thought you guys would put a little bit more of a fight. XD
Oh, that's right, because scum never bus each other right? I told him, my scum buddy, to not bus me because that would be bad!
Sorry dude, I'm capable enough to bus, see my filter in hero. That's a pretty pathetic excuse, he just realized you are scum
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On January 11 2013 11:18 MrZentor wrote:
Wow, my read on you transitioned from town to scum.
Who would a thunked it?
No, you put suspicion on me even though I'd always been town. Now why would you go ahead and do that? Give me one good reason, just one
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On January 11 2013 11:19 MrZentor wrote:
Nah, regardless of whether he bussed you or not, I would have still lynched him back.
And you realize this.
You realize there is no benefit to having him bus you.
Lol, dude, you're crumbling up. What do you think is going on our little QT?
Hey yama, tell everyone you think I'm town. Actually no, wait, say that I'm scum now. Say that you are going to bus me. No, wait, don't bus me.
This is your idea? Laughable
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On January 11 2013 11:21 MrZentor wrote:Because you're not town; you're scum. Man, that was easy.
How does that make any sense? Why give me suspicion when you thought I'd always been town? Or had you secretly thought I was scum all along?? Nah, you are trying to bs your way out and I need to show that you are pretty full of it.
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Yea Hapa just bought your BS when I wasn't around. He drew the obvious conclusion long ago:
On January 10 2013 11:20 Hapahauli wrote:
Zentor seems almost assuredly scum at this point.
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On January 11 2013 11:25 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 11:22 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 11 2013 11:19 MrZentor wrote:
Nah, regardless of whether he bussed you or not, I would have still lynched him back.
And you realize this.
You realize there is no benefit to having him bus you. Lol, dude, you're crumbling up. What do you think is going on our little QT? Hey yama, tell everyone you think I'm town. Actually no, wait, say that I'm scum now. Say that you are going to bus me. No, wait, don't bus me. This is your idea? Laughable Where did I say that was my idea? My idea was that Yamato bluffed in saying that you were scum with me, but now he won't vote for you. But it's not as if I can convince scum to suddenly turn into a townsperson. lol Talking to you is a waste, so I'll be ignoring future comments.
what are you talking about? Yea ok, dodge the question then scram. Hope everyone is following this little bit cause it makes no sense
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Oh, and yes, to anyone who really thinks me and yamato are scum, you are out of your damn minds
On January 10 2013 11:02 Blazinghand wrote:Vote Count MrZentor (1): Yamato77Dandel Ion (5): DarthPunk, MrZentor, Hapahauli, jaybrundage, Mr. Cheesecake - Not Voting (3): Z-Boson, Dandel Ion 5 votes are required to lynch.
On January 10 2013 11:02 Blazinghand wrote:Vote Count MrZentor (1): Yamato77 Dandel Ion (5): DarthPunk, MrZentor, Hapahauli, jaybrundage, Mr. Cheesecake - Not Voting (3): Z-Boson, Dandel Ion 5 votes are required to lynch.
Yea I'd go with the second one
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Of course I'm getting desperate, town is derping around when it's so fucking clear who the scum team is
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Ok, so both scum were on the first one, but then both scum decided to avoid the spotlight on the second one?? That makes more sense than
one scum parking their vote somewhere else in one lynch with the other one helping out and then both of them being on the second lynch?
Just use occams razor ffs
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On January 11 2013 11:05 DarthPunk wrote:
##Vote Z-Boson
Oh god, I hadn't even seen this. You need to stop screwing around and read, ffs, it's so godamn obvious
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On January 11 2013 11:39 MrZentor wrote:
And Yamato comes in and defends Z-Boson. lol
Whatever yamato does you are going to say lol. If he wanted to lynch me you'd say lol. Seems you are the one getting desperate huh
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Hapa derped in his meeting or whatever. I'm not scum so he's clearly wrong >.<
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It has been fun indeed. Just read my latest posts and see at how obvious it is that they are a scum team. All it takes is some reading and using occams razor. Don't lose the game because you are rushing to conclusions. This is mylo. Take your time, read, go through everything that was written, and it will allll start to make sense.
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Well I'll be back tomorrow or maybe a bit later.
READ THE LAST TWO PAGES IN MY FILTER.
THINK.
That is all.
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GG guys!
MrZ, you were fucking awesome, great job!
On January 12 2013 03:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
And I guess that's why both scum had to be on the mislynch D1 -- because myself and some others wanted to lynch you instead.
Yea I had to press that lynch hard at day one, would suck losing yamato early on.
Having hapa as confirmed townie was really damn annoying.
Town made quite a comeback, we thought we had it won in the QT
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On January 12 2013 03:57 yamato77 wrote:
It wasn't a planned thing day 1 really. He put a vote on him and then when I checked the thread, I could hammer so I did.
Sorry Xatalos it wasn't your fault lol.
If we had let Hapa/DP weigh in I would have been lynched yes.
Yes it was planned silly:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=30#598
at a time where both xatalos and hapa weren't there
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Dandel lynch was fine, I'd have lynched him 10 times over if I was town. It also established me as scum in MrZs eyes
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On January 12 2013 04:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Z-Bo you were pretty townie in my eyes. That's why I was thinking Yamato / Jay scumteam because at least that made sense. Jay and Mr. Z did an amazing job late game by interacting with one another and with the cases, etc. Really showed me that they weren't the scumteam.
Yea I really needed a backup plan there. I put all my eggs in one basket by giving yamato a town read. I'd have been better off being suspicious of him and bussing him.
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On January 12 2013 04:17 Dandel Ion wrote:I actually really didn't have any reasons to call yamato town, which is why I never gave any. I just couldn't be sure enough he was scum and I knew if I lynched him and he flipped town I was going to be the next (MYLO) lynch 99%. I was not ready to gamble the whole game on yamato, so I was acutally fine with my LYNCH. But I would have appreciated some time to give out my thoughts. Not like the days don't have infinite time.... Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 12 2013 04:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Z-Bo you were pretty townie in my eyes. That's why I was thinking Yamato / Jay scumteam because at least that made sense. Jay and Mr. Z did an amazing job late game by interacting with one another and with the cases, etc. Really showed me that they weren't the scumteam. Yea I really needed a backup plan there. I put all my eggs in one basket by giving yamato a town read. I'd have been better off being suspicious of him and bussing him. I take full credit for this.
Sorry bro, but I left a lot of room to find yam scummy after that, that shit was pointless. We both weren't even in your scum team when you died.
It was during the night when I went balls out on my MrZ/jay theory, and they decided to interact like mufuckas that sealed the deal.
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On January 12 2013 04:23 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 04:21 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 12 2013 04:17 Dandel Ion wrote:I actually really didn't have any reasons to call yamato town, which is why I never gave any. I just couldn't be sure enough he was scum and I knew if I lynched him and he flipped town I was going to be the next (MYLO) lynch 99%. I was not ready to gamble the whole game on yamato, so I was acutally fine with my LYNCH. But I would have appreciated some time to give out my thoughts. Not like the days don't have infinite time.... On January 12 2013 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 12 2013 04:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Z-Bo you were pretty townie in my eyes. That's why I was thinking Yamato / Jay scumteam because at least that made sense. Jay and Mr. Z did an amazing job late game by interacting with one another and with the cases, etc. Really showed me that they weren't the scumteam. Yea I really needed a backup plan there. I put all my eggs in one basket by giving yamato a town read. I'd have been better off being suspicious of him and bussing him. I take full credit for this. Sorry bro, but I left a lot of room to find yam scummy after that, that shit was pointless. We both weren't even in your scum team when you died. It was during the night when I went balls out on my MrZ/jay theory, and they decided to interact like mufuckas that sealed the deal. Doesn't stop me from taking it.
Whatever makes you feel better
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On January 12 2013 04:21 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 04:17 yamato77 wrote:
If I had been there during Dandel's lynch I might have defended him just to increase Zentor's paranoia about the both of us.
Hapa I'm sorry I did what I did this game. I have great respect for you as a player but I had to be so stupid you would never believe I was scum. It almost worked. Yea I didnt think you were scum. I always had a feel with Z-Boson as being scum. Its is just really hard to implement a good case as he does a good job of not doing anything scummy. Thats why i went with the Zentor/Z-Boson scum team. Till Zentor showed some good logic as to why it didnt make any sense.
You and your gut reads
I wonder what it'll be like when I'm town haha
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On January 12 2013 04:17 Dandel Ion wrote:I actually really didn't have any reasons to call yamato town, which is why I never gave any.I just couldn't be sure enough he was scum and I knew if I lynched him and he flipped town I was going to be the next (MYLO) lynch 99%. I was not ready to gamble the whole game on yamato, so I was acutally fine with my LYNCH. But I would have appreciated some time to give out my thoughts. Not like the days don't have infinite time.... Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote:On January 12 2013 04:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Z-Bo you were pretty townie in my eyes. That's why I was thinking Yamato / Jay scumteam because at least that made sense. Jay and Mr. Z did an amazing job late game by interacting with one another and with the cases, etc. Really showed me that they weren't the scumteam. Yea I really needed a backup plan there. I put all my eggs in one basket by giving yamato a town read. I'd have been better off being suspicious of him and bussing him. I take full credit for this.
Yep
On January 10 2013 04:09 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ DandelWon't lie, I really want to lynch you right now. Mainly for this: On January 09 2013 10:40 Dandel Ion wrote:
I'd totally lynch yamato.
Other scum most likely Zbo. On January 09 2013 10:42 Dandel Ion wrote:
btw I would have lynched Shiao after yamato too, but can we like, not do that now?
Would be nice. What is even the point of these comments? The only purpose for stuff like this is to agree with people, and not to serve any town objectives. You just replaced in, and you even admitted to not being fully caught up: On January 09 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:46 Hapahauli wrote:On January 09 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 09 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:
What, are you town? Cause I think your PM says the opposite >> I am. Tho i understand you thinking otherwise. How caught-up are you into the game? You mentioned notes, but you basically called the two confirmed townies + the most obv-town player in the thread town so far. That's... not much. I did follow pretty closely up to... uhm night 1? or so then I kinda stopped. still read it casually thoI'm a bit tipsy atm, and not fully caught up, so I don't wanna vote pplz yet. Feel free to hammer him in the meantime if your so eager. I'm just gonna post the notes i did so far straight. I did em for me tho, so if ya dont understand something, jsut ask Basically, you're down for lynching Yamato (despite rarely mentioning Yamato in your "notes") despite only being caught up to page 17. Then all of a sudden when you "read" the game: On January 09 2013 23:47 Dandel Ion wrote:
Yeah no, yamato is prob town. Yeah. That is an accurate recap of what happened. See, I would've lynched yamato for his day 1 play. When I was just reading this thread on the side, I still thought yam was being scummy for getting so irrationally angry and how he went about that anger. Now I read more than that closely, it's likely to be a town anger. Also yam is just an irrationally angry dude, not a scumtell for him.Kinda like Eywa, but without the modkills.
On January 10 2013 04:59 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 04:56 Z-BosoN wrote:
(...)
I am wondering right now what changed Dandel's mind so quickly in 11 hours as to supplant a read that came with more than a day's worth of analysis. lol learn reading.
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On January 12 2013 04:43 Dandel Ion wrote:
Zbo, I see you're still a massively unattractive individual. Don't take it out on me, not my fault.
If you want pointers on sexiness, look at Cheese the Adonis.
Such a sexy bastard.
I'm quite attractive actually 
You're just not my type
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On January 12 2013 11:51 Blazinghand wrote:
Hey guys I am here via phone but will share more thoughts later. How was the setup? Any feedback on roles, lynch mechanics etc would be appreciated.
Was OK. As scum, it was a bitch having to deal with two auto-confirmed townies, which was kind of annoying.
Nevertheless, I wouldn't say it was to the point of calling it unfair.
Posts were updated pretty handily and overall was a great game, so congrats!
Looking forward to your thoughts
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EPT
