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Okay so rereading the lynch it looks like Dandel played like a retard. I figured if he was town and I asked him some questions about justifications for his reads he would have responded somewhere but he didn't do a whole lot of that. I found two posts where he gives his reads, but they contain very little in the way of reasoning, unfortunately.
On January 10 2013 10:35 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 10:32 Hapahauli wrote:On January 10 2013 10:32 Dandel Ion wrote:On January 10 2013 10:31 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm giving him until 9:00 EST that's my deadline. 29 mins.
Prove you're town. I fucking can't and you know it. Who's the scumteam then? Because this reads as a scumclaim to me: Zbo, jay and MrZ are all scum.
Disregard numbers.
They're all 3 scum. Meh it's MrZ + jay. they're going for the too-obvious-to-be-scum Hardcore buddying trolling Not giving reads, not giving reasons of anything. You somehow read MrZ as town, so I want you to reflect on how bad you are, and reconsider when CC finally hammers me. And he's gonna do it let's face it. I don't have a convenient blueclaim. Dunno how you expect me to "prove" I'm town.
Here he gives a Jay/ MrZ hypothesis, which seems plausible enough to me at this point. They've been calling each other town the whole game and their interactions are superficial at best. Neither one has been under significant pressure at all and neither one seems interested in giving meaningful analysis to back up their reads.
On January 10 2013 10:50 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 10:48 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Last chance Dandel. We would take you fucking seriously once you were lynched.
Last chance. jay sure scum MrZ more likely than Zboson. You could even dumb Zbo down to a lynch-liars policy with a sprinkle of lynch-idiots-that-can't-read MrZ has never done anything that helps town all game, no idea how anybody could ever read him town.
Here he seems convinced of jay's scumminess. He offers up the idea of lynching Z-Boson as his scum mate, giving us three distinct possibilities to look at for tomorrow in terms of the scum team:
Jay/MrZ - I touched upon this earlier, it seems the most likely scum team to me given their play this game.
Jay/Z-Bo - This would essentially be a double-bus scum team at this point which I think is unlikely, because as Hapa said losing 50% of your scum team just for some town cred is ludicrous thinking. It could still be possible however, so I will be paying attention to his this develops
MrZ/Z-bo - The association no one has put forward yet, because it doesn't make much sense on its face. Quite a bit of day 2 from Z-Bo was spent pushing Zentor as scum, and Zentor still called Z-Boson town. This behavior could be scum-motivated, however, in that Z-Bo could have been pushing his partner the whole day because he figured it was a safe scum read to have because he wasn't in danger of being lynched, and Zentor throws the 'town' moniker around quite often, so it doesn't really mean anything.
Moving forward, I think the best plan of action is to sit on the assumption that we can lynch Zentor at any point, and hunt for either his scum mate, or in the small likelihood that he's actually town, find the real scum. Unfortunately for us, the Dandel lynch wasn't as informative as it might have been because he wasn't in the game for that long, and he failed to give us any solid analysis on his reads to move forward with after his lynch. So essentially all we have is the time we give ourselves tomorrow, so if Zentor is actually town, it is in his best interest to not make good on his promise to do nothing tomorrow. That said, if he doesn't say anything, I think we should establish a point in time where he should just be lynched straight up, perhaps 18-24 hours after the day post.
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I think the things that got him lynched weren't his reads, but rather his refusal to explain his reasoning and his downright trollish attitude toward the rest of town.
His filter obviously contains at least some of his true thoughts about the game, no? Why should I discredit everything he said just because he acted stupidly? Unless you believe he literally played anti-town the entire time and was lying about his scum reads I see no reason not to take them somewhat seriously.
Do you disagree with the possibility of a jay/mrz scum team? Do you disagree with my analysis of the probabilities of the scum teams I put forth? There's more there than just "summary" bro.
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On January 10 2013 16:44 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 15:38 yamato77 wrote:
Moving forward, I think the best plan of action is to sit on the assumption that we can lynch Zentor at any point, and hunt for either his scum mate, or in the small likelihood that he's actually town, find the real scum. We can lynch anyone at anypoint. If it's very unlikely that hes town then why wouldn't you just lynch him? You should always lynch your best scum read. Never ever save a lynch for later on someone you think is scum.
There's always the possibility that Zentor is town, isn't there? I mean we just saw a townie self-destruct yesterday. I agree he is probably scum, but even if he is I think the better move is to sit on the idea for at least a few hours. If you disagree, I want to know how you're so certain he'll flip.
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On January 10 2013 17:16 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2013 16:46 yamato77 wrote:On January 10 2013 16:44 jaybrundage wrote:On January 10 2013 15:38 yamato77 wrote:
Moving forward, I think the best plan of action is to sit on the assumption that we can lynch Zentor at any point, and hunt for either his scum mate, or in the small likelihood that he's actually town, find the real scum. We can lynch anyone at anypoint. If it's very unlikely that hes town then why wouldn't you just lynch him? You should always lynch your best scum read. Never ever save a lynch for later on someone you think is scum. There's always the possibility that Zentor is town, isn't there? I mean we just saw a townie self-destruct yesterday. I agree he is probably scum, but even if he is I think the better move is to sit on the idea for at least a few hours. If you disagree, I want to know how you're so certain he'll flip. Im not really certain about anything at this point. We still have a similar pool to lynch in but I have added Zentor to that lynch. I'm not as sure as i was about him as before. His im not going to post crap was dumb to say the least.
Let me ask you this, what before that point in time made you think he was town?
It's really easy to point to that post and go "scum". Your read beforehand must have been pretty weak.
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Zentor none of this is even remotely new information about my play, why is it that you're making this case, which is half comprised of town cases for yourself and jay, only once you find yourself under pressure? You've said you've had a scum read on me most of the game and indeed wanted me to be lynched but yet you never thought that posting something like this would help your cause? The timing if this serves only to weaken its potential effect, as you are almost assuredly acting defensively in this instance, a fact supported by the town cases you thought to include.
Furthermore, the idea that I have been serious and not joking the entire game is obviously true. You caught me, I take mafia seriously. How this is indicative of me being scum I have yet to make the connection. I rarely joke, even as town, and am often highly emotionally strained and angry, especially in games where I am under suspicion such as my very first game on this forum, or in Parallel World Mafia. Being carefree may be a town tell, but not being carefree is almost assuredly not a scum tell.
The rest of your case is pretty dumb. You're calling me scum for doing the exact things you're not, which is playing in town's best interest. How on earth is playing pro-town supposed to prove I'm scum? It's also highly convenient that this logic also exonerates you in that it implies the reverse, that people who are obviously not pro-town are somehow town. This is a subtle, smooth way to assert your own towniness while also shitting on me. Ultimately, though, your mind is obviously not on proving that I'm scum, but in implanting the idea that your behavior this game is acceptable, even though you've been anti-town for quite some time.
Is it a coincidence that you've been on both wagons this game? Is it a coincidence that you have been on both of these wagons with very little justification for your votes? Why would a town player play like this? Why would a town player hold such valuable information such as the reasons for his reads for almost the entire game, only to post them when it becomes evident that not doing so will mean his head? You say a scum's objective is survival, well what objective do you think I see in this?
You've been silent about this type of thing almost the whole game. Only when forced to do so have you been forthcoming with information. Isn't it in scum's best interest to withhold information from town? Isn't it easier to bullshit your reads when you don't post anything but "X is town/scum?" Isn't it easy to appear to be right with your reads if you give more town reads than scumreads? Isn't it easy to pick on people that confirmed townies have picked on?
Honestly I don't see a scum team that doesn't include you. Jay/Z was likely but is becoming less probable. With the posting of this case though, you fail to explain your scum read on Z-Bo at all. It seems he's only scum because of some process of elimination. No, what you're doing here is considering who you think you can get mislynched tomorrow, because that wins you the game. You've never really tried to get Z-Bo lynched this entire game, you've focused on getting me lynched, a townie. It's sure easy to bus your partner if he's never had any votes on him, isn't it? The same could be said for Z-bo, in that you've never really been in any danger of getting lynched until now, and right now no one is getting lynched.
Could definitely see Z/Z scum team as a possibility. It sounds silly on its face, like I said before, but it's all WIFOM at some point.
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On January 11 2013 09:58 MrZentor wrote:
You blame me for being on both wagons, but you hammered Xatalos.
And if you think a Z/Z scum team is probable, then can we agree to lynch him tomorrow?
After all, he's a scum read to both of us.
And it's not like your pretending to be okay with voting him, just so you keep tunneling me, right?
I would lynch either of you.
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On January 11 2013 10:04 MrZentor wrote:
Okay, well I think you're bluffing.
I doubt you would lynch Z-Boson.
And because you think we're both scum, what would be wrong with killing Z-Boson instead of me first?
Why should I believe that you're not bluffing?
As I said, you can talk all the shit you want but your focus, even right now, is pushing town to lynch me. You're just using this as a way to try to "trap" me.
You're better scum than I thought, Zentor.
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On January 11 2013 10:09 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 10:07 yamato77 wrote:On January 11 2013 10:04 MrZentor wrote:
Okay, well I think you're bluffing.
I doubt you would lynch Z-Boson.
And because you think we're both scum, what would be wrong with killing Z-Boson instead of me first? Why should I believe that you're not bluffing? As I said, you can talk all the shit you want but your focus, even right now, is pushing town to lynch me. You're just using this as a way to try to "trap" me. You're better scum than I thought, Zentor. Okay, so you think I might be bluffing, and I think you might be bluffing. So why don't we both agree to kill Z-Boson tomorrow? And we'll see once and for all who's bluffing. We'll see who's Boson's scum partner.
How is lynching Boson going to help anything?
He flips town, and you win because it was jay/mrz scum team.
He flips scum, and then we both are left thinking the other is scum and bussed, and it does nothing to prove anything.
Like I said I have no problem lynching him but you're implying that you know the alignment of him/jay which is something that is not confirmed by any means. Your certainty about this matter is unsettling.
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On January 11 2013 10:24 Hapahauli wrote:
You seem remarkably calm about this Yamato. And it's unsettling how you're calling Z-Bo scum without a single mention of him in your filter.
You know as well as I do that I have to consider the possibility at this point. It would be stupid to ignore Z-Bo as potential scum mates with Zentor just because I've had a town read on him.
Zentor's found a way to call me scum for anything I do at this point and it's annoying to deal with his pestering. Obviously his intention is not to lynch Boson here, as I said, it's to make me look bad because I haven't had a scum read on Z-Boson for the whole game like him. He's also put forth the idea that scum wouldn't bus, which makes himself look better and myself look worse at the same time. He's doing the same shit he's been doing all day which is unsurprising.
I would humor him and lynch Z-Bo but why take the risk? What if jay/zentor is the scum team? Then town loses.
It's far safer of a choice in my opinion to lynch Zentor and then go from there.
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On January 11 2013 10:38 Hapahauli wrote:
No no no, see you're calling Z-Bo scum out of your ass. Why do you think Z-Bo is scum all of a sudden?
I'm not saying anything "out of my ass". If I believe Zentor is scum, which I do, then I have to consider his scum partner at this point, and there are only two people who could possibly be that, which is Jay and Boson. I've covered exactly why each one does and doesn't make sense to me in my filter.
It's far more suspicious that he is so convinced of Jay's towniness that he, if town, would risk losing the game straight up to jay/yamato scum team just to lynch Z-Boson.
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On January 11 2013 10:43 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 10:38 Hapahauli wrote:
No no no, see you're calling Z-Bo scum out of your ass. Why do you think Z-Bo is scum all of a sudden? He called Z-Bo scum to try to contradict this. Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 09:41 MrZentor wrote:
Another way to prove that Yamato and Z-Boson are scum.
Two of the four MrZ, Jay, Yamato, and Z-Boson are scum.
If you are scum, you are going to vote for the two townspeople, because if you say you will vote for your scum buddy and another townsperson, and people want to lynch your scum buddy, you will be forced to bus him. If you don't vote for him, it will be obvious that you were scum just bluffing that you would vote for your scum buddy.
Because the two scum would vote for the two townpeople, they would vote for the same people.
Now look at who these people have last said they think is mafia.
Boson thinks Jay/MrZ
Yamato thinks Jay/MrZ
Jay thinks MrZ/Boson
MrZ knows Yamato/Z-Boson
Note that Boson and Yamato are the only people accusing the same people, just like scum would do.
(Although they haven't actually voted yet, by accusing these people, they are setting themselves up to vote for one of those people.) But I called him on his bluff. 
Oh yeah, I wrote that gigantic post all in ten minutes, you're so smart.
I didn't even see your stupid post before now. I'd also put forth the idea of a Z/Z scum team before this point, in my analysis of the game state after Dandel's lynch.
Yeah, no. You're just making shit up now.
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What the fuck is going on.
How the fuck is what Zentor is doing right now even remotely proof that he's town?
God damn this game.
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Also how the hell does jay/boson make sense?
So many weird thing being said right now
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On January 11 2013 10:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 10:57 yamato77 wrote:
What the fuck is going on.
How the fuck is what Zentor is doing right now even remotely proof that he's town?
God damn this game. This sounds like fabricated frustration imo.
Cheesecake you're retarded
Gogo useless confirmed town
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On January 11 2013 11:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 10:59 yamato77 wrote:On January 11 2013 10:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 11 2013 10:57 yamato77 wrote:
What the fuck is going on.
How the fuck is what Zentor is doing right now even remotely proof that he's town?
God damn this game. This sounds like fabricated frustration imo. Cheesecake you're retarded Gogo useless confirmed town The fact that you rage at me for everything makes me think you're scum
Yeah because those other games we played together I never raged at you when we were both town, right?
I don't know how much more dumb you can be.
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On January 11 2013 11:06 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I told you Jay I haven't a clue. Could be any two of you fuckers. Problem is, even though Mr. Z pissed me off with his play this game, I kind of want him to win for lulz if he's scum
You're fucking useless as shit.
God damn if you hadn't wasted so much of my fucking time this game I could have figured this shit out by now.
Even as confirmed town you still say shit I could lynch you for.
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You know what, no.
Z-Bo isn't scum.
I refuse to follow along with Zentor's bullshit plan.
If you guys aren't lynching him I want to lynch Jay.
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Zentor has been pushing this Boson shit so hard, there's no way Boson is scum team with him.
Jay has to be the second scum. Neither one has done shit this game for town until it was clear we were heading in their direction and now they both pop out with a bunch of WIFOM bullshit to throw at us.
Fuck that, lynch the scummers.
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On January 11 2013 11:39 MrZentor wrote:
And Yamato comes in and defends Z-Boson. lol
No shit, you're fucking scum trying to get him lynched
why the fuck would i think he's scum now?
dumbass
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On January 11 2013 11:46 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2013 11:15 yamato77 wrote:
You know what, no.
Z-Bo isn't scum.
I refuse to follow along with Zentor's bullshit plan.
If you guys aren't lynching him I want to lynch Jay. What the fuck is this shit Yamato. Am I actually wrong about you and Jay?
I don't know why I was letting myself get WIFOM'd by Jay's case on Zentor when it obviously meant nothing, he just made it to distance himself on the hopes it would work and it almost did. Him giving it up and calling Zentor town on a fucking whim all over again means he was just full of shit.
If I believe Zentor to be scum, which I do, I cannot at this point lynch Boson in my right mind. Jay must be his partner
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EPT
