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Well see DarthPunk is very capable of playing an engaged and active mafia game. It's his individual behavior that makes him scummy. For example, his complete lack of pursuing lurkers despite him being super-concerned about them. In addition, his "all bark, no bite" stance on me... where he's been directly calling me scum, yet hasn't placed his vote and hasn't been able to produce a case on me when asked:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=391112¤tpage=8#142
Ugh, I don't like giving some players the benefit of the doubt if they're "lynch baits". That just encourages them to play anti-town as Mafia and then get away with it. Especially MrZentor's playstyle is so irritatingly useless and hard to read... What's the point of signing up if he justs posts some one liners anyway?
It's not like I'm unwilling to lynch Jay if I think he's mafia. Far from it. However, his behavior does need to be analyzed in the context of his own gameplay.
As for MrZ, I'm not worried about him at all. He's actually pretty easy to read, because his mafia and town personas are completely different from one another. He's far more active, engaged, and jokey in his town games. In his mafia games, it's pretty clear that he has a hard time making posts. His activity and engagement will reveal his alignment soon enough.
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Where'd you go Xalatos? Hell where did everyone go =(
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@ Xatalos
Well keep in mind that the only reason that DP is active is because I've been tunneling him rather adamantly.
As for MrZ, well we can agree to disagree on him. If you do find him suspicious, I do encourage you to tunnel him and get something out of him.
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MrZ, what dost thou mak'eth of DP?
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@ Xatalos
If you had one (or two) top scumreads in the thread at the moment, who would it be and why? You threw around 3 lurkers and called them suspicious, but that's rather easy to do. I'm more interested in your conclusions.
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Uhhhh... what does that have to do with anything?
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On January 05 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote:
Hapa, although I'm unaware of DP's typical scum play, I'm pretty confident he's town.
And what do you think of Xatalos?
How so? If it's about his general loudness and aggressiveness, he's more than capable of doing that as scum. In fact he's done a similar nonsensical tunnel on me in TL Mafia LVII.
As for Xatalos... well nothing yet. I'm not a huge fan of his post calling three lurkers suspicious, but I can see it coming from either alignment. That's why I'm asking him for some more concrete reads atm. There's just nothing tangible in his filter I can hold him accountable for.
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On January 05 2013 08:52 MrZentor wrote:Show nested quote +Lurking is fucking shit, even more so in this setup. If you lurk that will make me want to lynch you. Show nested quote +The thing that is hurting this game the most right now is lurking. So why are you not saying anything about lurking? In fact the only time you have 'pressured' people is when another player first comments on them. Shiao Pi with Riseagain and myself with Yamato.
That is quite distinct to what you did in witchcraft for example, which was push people on your own regardless of the positions of others, make a strong case and ask people to judge that on it's merits. Posts like these make me think he is town. He's one of the more difficult people to read, so I think it would be best to wait a day before lynching him.
I think those posts make him scum. What has he done to pressure lurkers or even encourage lurkers to post? Literally nothing.
Saying "lurking suckzzz" is non-alignment indicative alone, but when you don't follow up on it at all, it's scummy. Especially when you chose to go after the guy with 40% of the Day 1 posts instead of the lurkers. What has he done to encourage lurkers to post? Nothing!
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On January 05 2013 09:23 MrZentor wrote:
Except the second time I stated that we needed guidelines, not rules. >.<
Whatever.
Eh this seems like arguing over semantics rather than substance.
Anywho MrZ, any scumreads at the moment?
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So who do you think is town at the moment (and why)?
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On January 05 2013 09:46 MrZentor wrote:What about you? 
You so far. That's about it really.
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On January 05 2013 09:45 MrZentor wrote:
Me, you, and a little Xatalos
Oh also, I thought you were convinced that DP was town. What changed your mind?
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@ Jay
On January 05 2013 09:46 jaybrundage wrote:@Xalatos I dont plan to post just to post. When I'm ready to give my thoughts ill do so. Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 11:51 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 04 2013 11:42 jaybrundage wrote:On January 04 2013 11:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Jay
Any other thoughts on what Rise and I have discussed over the first pages of the thread? Day length, hammer votes, or anything really. We should lynch someone when we feel confident they are mafia. We should always be aware of the hammer vote. People should be responsible for there hammer vote. We shouldn't rush a lynch cause we lost discussions to read people with. Policy Lynches rarely work so we should refrain from doing them. Pretty straight forward imo. So the hammer vote takes full responsibility for the lynch? Everyone who votes is responsible, not just the hammering guy. Dont like this post from CC its twisting my words for no reason. It feels like a post just to post and look like hes contributing with out saying anything. Ofc the Hammer vote isn't going to take responsibility for the whole lynch but he does seal the deal. Also Hapa on your case on DP I think you bring up some good points. Specifically him calling you out with any case. And saying lurking is terrible but not pressuring any lurkers.
Thanks for posting, but there's not much out of your filter right now other than re-hashes of points that people have already made. ShaioPi made a post earlier on Rise's "over-aggressiveness" - what are your thoughts on that?
On January 04 2013 12:23 ShiaoPi wrote:I wanna have a look at RiseAgain: + Show Spoiler +On January 04 2013 09:45 RiseAgain wrote:
Oh, good someone spewing banalities already. Also, that post is clearly pre-prepared, which makes it worthless for assessing your alignment. Good job?
1.) Why? Letting days go on interminably is a waste. Towns, more often than not, manage to talk themselves out of good lynches and generally get sidetracked, we need to have a plan for eventually reaching a consensus, if we spend a week talking, people will lose interest and focus, there's a reason days last 48 hours usually. I'm fine with running 72 hours, I'm not fine with us stalemating stupidly.
2.) I have a better proposal. Consider the guy taking the hammer vote the same as a day vigi and act on his "shot" accordingly, sometimes (most times) extended discussion is called for. Sometimes heroic shots are called for. Judge on actions.
3.) Policy Lynches are stupid, because town never follows up on them. We can claim we want to policy lynch people hammering stupidly, but you know we won't. There are way too many people who value their opinion over the common good, so time spent discussing policy lynches is... wasted time. Judge people based on their actions, nothing more, nothing less.
What your post is doing is detracting from something we should be doing, setup-analysis, this setup has a very clear town slant with the proper play. I already know what it is, three townie points to the first person to propose it, if no one has come up with it in the next... 12-24 hours I'll explain it, after all, we have time. That is his first post. First question, why so aggressive? While it is true that we cannot gain much regarding alignment out of hapa's post, somebody does have to start the game and well it usually is policy talk. I for one would also be really curious what kind of setup gaming you have in mind RiseAgain. Also why respond to things which are "banalities" in your eyes? Shouldn't you just ignore them anyway?
Honestly I'm just looking for anything from ya. It's hard to get a read from you when you don't post all too often.
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@ MrZ
On January 05 2013 09:57 MrZentor wrote:
He was a weak town read anyways, and the fact that he posts every few hours why he won't be able to post later is kind of worrying.
Huh? It doesn't sound like you had a weak town read on him before:
On January 05 2013 08:42 MrZentor wrote:
Hapa, although I'm unaware of DP's typical scum play, I'm pretty confident he's town.
And what do you think of Xatalos?
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On January 05 2013 10:09 MrZentor wrote:
It was weak.
Like what was your old read based on? Being "confident" that someone is town doesn't imply much weakness in your read.
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So did that confidence mean absolutely nothing? What was your exact rationale for thinking that DP was town at the time. Walk me through your mentality.
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@ CC
Most interested in comments/reads/etc rather than specific questions. Hard to ask questions since you haven't really done anything.
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Off to dinner, BB in a couple of hours.
Also 8 pages of thread in 24 hours is pretty fucking terrible. I'm half tempted to lynch the person with the lowest post-count after 72 hours.
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I'm catching up a bit right now. Regarding your Xatalos case, I did find his initial post slightly scummy (spreading suspicion amongst 3 players and not making any conclusions). I'm less convinced than you about his stance on DP, because I was really attacking his town-read on DP and pushing the idea that DP is scum at the time he made the switch.
However, Yamato's vote/post is just all sorts of absurd. You don't call someone's case "fake" without any rationale to back it up. This is not how this game works, and it's absolutely retarded play. I'm not sure if it's scummy or not yet, but like damn.
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EPT
