[T] MTG Mini Mafia II

On January 29 2013 11:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I have a far simpler solution though:
Those people that rely on basic lands a lot should provide the mana now.
Since they are the ones that want bin to draw the other card.

Those people that have nothing vital to play now, should provide mana too.

If you look scummy, you can provide mana if you want to look townie.


I have something quite vital to play, so I would prefer to play that.


And it's not like you can actually force people to do so.
All actions will come from one's own will and I don't like how you suggest the use of "force".
In fact, scum have a far higher interest in doing as you say, as their lacking board development can be made up with the mafia creature. And if it allows them to funnel town into policy attacks on scummys/lurkers, I'd imagine scum would follow you without much resistance.

~dandel

On January 29 2013 11:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Merely stating the truth.

What would you do in regards to it? In the purely hypothetical case you were scum of course.

Also, you don't post much. What gives?

~dandel

On January 29 2013 11:52 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Clockwork, why are you so behemently trying to resist scumhunting?

You berate me for "try-hard" at scumhunting...and you keep arguing about Mind Glow and how you want 20 2/2 skeletons and some shit.
What the flying fuck? Where are you scumhunting? Specially when you just mention in your post that apparently "finding the scummy players" is a big issue against my plan.


That was a bad post marv:



What does the bolded bit make you conclude?
Does him saying how mafia would behave, but actually not behaving like it make him mafia or town?
Neither perhaps? If so why did you decide to waste your post to point that out?

On January 29 2013 12:01 BinOnFire wrote:
What pressure? IT WAS 1 post.

Actually I think minds aglow helps everybody, not just town. So why wont 'scummy' people contribute mana? Then they can start actually 1 shotting people.

On January 29 2013 12:01 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well marv, in my mind it's something not alignment-indicative, that I can easily see town posting (why? Because that's exactly what scum did in the previous game if you remember correctly, it'd make sense for a townie to point that out).
Thus, it's "bad" to point that out, and if your whole post is based on that it's "bad".

If it annoys you or something then sorry I guess, but you should know better that people will pressure you if you don't live up to your "town" marv standards.

You also still seem to be using the "I don't know magic" excuse as well.
Didn't you even read the previous game when you were lurking scum? :/
Or did you forget everything about it? lol

On January 29 2013 12:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


He called him out on something, CW posted something that in my mind wouldn't really satisfy that thing he pointed out, and instantly marv just dropped the whole thing with the "okay, but in case you aren't mafia pro-tip here: bla bla".

That's pressuring someone, then instantly dropping the pressure when it's not really unneeded.

Also, I may be "awfully quick" to attack marv, but you are awfully quick to defend him.

On January 29 2013 12:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


How should I read it?

On January 29 2013 12:07 RockHydra wrote:

Perhaps, but at the moment he's the try-hardiest of us all. Are you suspicious of ThePoster marv, or just depressed about the level of play he's exhibiting?

On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro

On January 30 2013 04:48 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


Great, you're around. Find me some scum. All you've really done is make a really weak pressure post against us for "giving scum a recipe on looking townie" when you are better than that: it was blatantly obvious that going along with something that had gotten a "pro-town plan" stamp of approval could be used to gain town credit. Stating the obvious is not giving scum a recipe, it's stating the obvious.

Your pressure was weaksauce and you spent like 5 posts arguing about it. You're better than that. Now stop playing LIX and pay attention here. Who's scum?

/Acro

On January 30 2013 05:02 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
marv, do you agree with what I and CH posted about Crossfire?

I doubt keeping to discuss "policy posts" will do us any good, other than what has already been posted (for instance my commandments, you should read them).

/G

On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote:

I'd be scumhunting.

I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?)

On January 30 2013 03:47 Aperture Science wrote:
Still in Italy and can't post much. I'm trying to keep up and told iGrok to stop trolling. But that's kinda like telling cave Johnson to stop with the prerecord messages. Thats just how he usually starts.

I will be able to post normally again in about 3 days. It's good to finally play a themed game again.

-Grey

On January 30 2013 00:48 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm up, catching up now.

On January 30 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
@Marv: you said SnB wasn't around, yet he dropped in to play a Savannah (in a slightly trolly way) before you posted your "help me, SnB deserted me" and has now posted a long policy post. Why did you excuse yourself due to SnB's absence, despite SnB clearly not being absent.

@SnB: unless you plan on wiping out everybody else in turn 2 or 3 or so, you will have to rely on your fellow townies. We play as a team. Making every part of that team stronger is good. Now if you're worried about zombies (Nova and iGrok as well), then you should probably start analysing our posts. We have made enough of them and have been rather transparent. Do you think we're scum?

/Acro

On January 30 2013 05:31 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You also failed to answer the main question there: do you think we're scum? Sure, people's judgement in using 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome might not always be the best, but unless we actually GET some 8/8 tramply beasts of awesome on town side, we're just punching bags for the mafia creature. Minds Aglow seems by far the fastest way to get there.

Now obviously, if you think the 8/8 tramply creature (or in this case shambling herd of zombies) is going to scum, then by all means oppose it. But don't hide in policy crap. Come out and say "look guys, we should not draw millions of cards, because scum will get a shambling herd of zombies".

/Acro

On January 30 2013 05:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Yet you seem opposed to drawing cards. So far Gonzaw has claimed he can get benefits from discarding. We get a benefit from discarding. That's 2 players. Everybody else strengthens their hand. Next turn, there's probably a lot of land coming anybody who plays basic lands in their deck. That strengthens everybody further.

What alternative plan do you have for your mana?

On January 30 2013 06:19 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:


i dont have to think you're scum to not want you to get more powerful than anyone else. I just have to think you're likely to come to incorrect conclusions and not listen to me.

I think that if you alone have a shambling herd of zombies, that's not good for town, regardless of whether you are town or not.

On January 30 2013 06:37 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


What else would you spend your mana on?

On January 30 2013 15:54 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I find these 2 consecutive "fluffy" posts of Suck and Cross where both come out of seemingly nowhere to then go AFK, both attack CH for (IMO) weak reasons, yet neither of them even mention the other.....weird, and that's an understatement.

/G

On January 30 2013 22:21 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Has snb taught you how to play magic yet?

~dandel

On January 30 2013 22:22 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Why, that's completely pointless. If you tell me that you're afraid of the dark, I'm not going to look at it from your point of view. I'm going to tell you that you shouldn't be afraid of the dark and give you a bunch of reasons for why the dark isn't scary.

You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you!

On January 30 2013 22:22 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

You know why zombies aren't scary if you're not scum? Because they won't attack you!

On January 30 2013 22:49 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

No guarantees. But at the moment it sure looks like they're heading your way. A big post that says "I'm harmless and useless" but does nothing much else is not convincing me otherwise.

On January 30 2013 23:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
It's a point.

I wouldn't call it proven.

I expect it to be falsified when marv flips scum.

Carry on.

On January 30 2013 23:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

So get off your ass, stop taking cheap shots and show us why you're town.

On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.

On January 30 2013 23:54 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Marvellosity lurking through D1:

MTG Mini Mafia I (lurked through the whole game. Toad posted. Verdict: scum.

There was another game, but I can't remember which one. You lurked through D1 and were scum. It was before CT and I didn't play in it. I tried searching through your profile, but I can only get it to show the last 10 pages of posts (might be date limited) and have no clue how to search for older posts.

Also, the defense that you are never suspected D1 as scum is a complete non-sequitur. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether you are scum this game. Are you seriously trying to say that because we suspect you of being scum, you can't be scum. Is that REALLY your defense?

/Acro

On January 31 2013 00:00 BinOnFire wrote:
Also, could other players respond if they agree or disagree with Aperture and why.
/Oats

On January 31 2013 01:09 BinOnFire wrote:
My play, but there are downsides too, which like no one addressed.
After it was suggested, there was no opposition so its not like I had to push it or anything.


Look, how does that make me scummy?
/Oats

On January 29 2013 13:59 BinOnFire wrote:
Dude, did you even read my post? I don't mention zombies at all. In fact, I talk in general terms. Stronger everybody = good for town.
Of course you dont want to say that you are a selfish bastard.
I agree that the more cards you get, and the more mana you can play, the better it is for you. Also better for scum.

Town getting stronger is better because scum already start with a big fat 8/8 monster.

HOWEVER what I am saying is that its not objectively good for town.
There are pro's and con's for playing that card and all you seem to be doing is saying how good it is for town.

On January 31 2013 01:28 BinOnFire wrote:
So are the downsides that the mafia get stronger and can kill townies easier?
Yes, yes in fact.

How does that line up with the analysis here that town get relatively stronger because mafia already start with a powerful creature?

I dont see the contradiction.

Aperture, can you explain to me exactly what the contradictions are other than me opposing(which im not) my own play?
/Oats

On January 31 2013 01:37 BinOnFire wrote:
@Marv,
Its not a downside late game, but for example, scum could possibly set it up such that the game ends by day 3 or something with the right cards, and Minds Aglow helps them achieve that.
@Ok Acro/IGrok,
Im feel like im really bad at Mafia and MTG(LOL DISCREDITING MYSELF), but I thought that it was a good idea at the time and I still do.
I dont feel like I was purposefully dragging out the discussion either, if you felt that way, you sure didnt do anything about it.

On January 31 2013 02:18 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Can someone point a small summary on why everybody is attacking Oats right now?
Is it just him apparently going against MG's plan?

Suck, do you think he's scum?

/G

On January 31 2013 02:29 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


I was responding to S&B's post, not yours. S&B never posted anything about Crossfire if I remember correctly, yet completely ignored him and went for CH (which even you think for weak reasons).

You also haven't mentioned Crossfire in a while...do you still think he's scummy? What about his last post, what do you think about it?



Damn marv, why would you post something like this? :/
"Hi guys! I was the first to post something about Stutters! That makes me townie right? RIGHT?"

This whole post of yours is just a big apology and has "I'm doing stuff! Here this is stuff I did in this game! This convinces you I am town right? RIGHT!!!?" all over it
That's not the town marv I know of...



Answer this question marv please:
Do you realize why people are suspicious of you and S&B?

If you do, then some of your aggression is unwarranted and just derails the thread
If you don't.....then either I expected too much from you, you are lazy as fuck, or you are scum.

/G

On January 30 2013 07:22 Nova_Terra wrote:

The probability of them both being scum and acting like that is low. I'm more suspicious of crossfire than stutters. I'm currently looking at Marv+s&b's filter, and i'm seeing things that i dont like. I'd love it if we could all take a look at their filter, because i'm not sure if what im finding scummy is just (marv's?) typical posting style or if it is actually scummy. Also, there is the s&b policy post, which looked to me like a cut and pasted prepared "See im doing stuff!" type post. With relevant informatiOn added in after, of course.

On January 31 2013 02:51 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


Okay, so if I call you out for not taking "leadership" of town, actively trying to hunt scum, or at least promote discussion to get info from people to find scum easier, then you would be okay with it?

Or rather...what do you plan to do? You know you could easily die on T2-T3 if you keep up like this.
Play to your win con marv (if you are town)

Some of your posts gave me this "nah, he wouldn't post this as scum surely? He's too lazy to be scum apparently" feel.....but hey, if you keep being alive and you keep doing shit, I might just think it's a new very efficient scum play from yours.



Okay marv, let's get this over with ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!
http://www.ehow.com/how_2090329_play-magic-gathering.html

Go on and read that, that's it.

Now you won't be "playing that card" again



Well, I already posted his filter from the previous game (here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345422&user=116463 )
There he was active RIGHT FROM THE START, with setup discussion and the like.

For instance, there's his "everybody attack" policy. In that game, he presented it, and stayed answering people's questions, discussing if it should be used or not, and generally being active in discussions about the setup
Here, he just made 1 "policy post", and then never touched on it again. And need I remind you his 1st post was kind of "bad", as in it was just fluff and a rehash of what he said last game.

Then he spends time arguing against CH's zombies....and that's it. That's all he's done.
You can see the contrast with the previous game

Not only that, but the attitude is different. In MTG 1 he started all cheery or enthusiastic, specially about setup discussion. Here he seems more "gloom", or not as enthusiastic.

I would understand if you were a posting machine and "leading the way", so maybe he would get lazy and not do much (much like I'm doing with Prome ). But you aren't.

/G

On January 31 2013 03:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well marv, I'm going to tell you this: You guys will make this game hard, and most surely "not fun".

I'll surely have doubts about your alignment the whole game, and if you are town scum+misled townies will kill you (maybe resulting in a town loss), and if you are scum misled townies may ignore you (maybe resulting in a town loss).
There's not nice happy ending with the way you are playing, unless somehow we find the other 2 scum very easily (if you are town)

Could you respond the previous "scum hydra" question?

/G

On January 31 2013 03:09 BinOnFire wrote:

-snip

His theatrics in casting Oats and I as scum also seems forced and tacky.

-snip-

On January 31 2013 03:10 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
So who do you think is that scum hydra?
If you are not the scum hydra, at least help us get him.


Also that's the truth marv. Or rather it's something I know WILL happen in this game (it's kind of inevitable). You can't just say "Fuck you just make a decent read on me, if you don't it's your fault", mafia doesn't work like that.

/G

On January 31 2013 03:21 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I asked you about 1 mafia, not 2. If you agree there IS a scum hydra, then better put all the effort possible in finding him soon, rather than let every hydra be until T4 or something (like what happened last game with you+Toad).
The 2nd scum could be another hydra, or maybe Crossfire, I dunno. Unless you want to focus on that "other" mafia? If so go ahead focus

Also you know what's funny? That me+Prome sign basically every single post of ours, yet Acro/dandel, the guys that were so bitchy about hydras signing their post, still don't sign all of theirs

/G

On January 31 2013 03:29 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well, I'd say this isn't a "normal" game of mafia
Obviously the same approach doesn't work. For one, you don't have a "lynch" until like T3 or T4, so if you keep "focusing" on Cross/Nova, you will have to do so until one of them flips (again in T3/T4), thus basically ignoring the hydras until that time comes.

/G

On January 31 2013 03:31 BinOnFire wrote:
I'm sorry, when did I totally misrepresent you, marv?

On January 31 2013 03:11 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:


At the very least this is a gross misrepresentation, since my analysis led me to think you were probably town.

Why are you misrepresenting me so viciously, or not reading the thread?

On January 31 2013 03:36 marvellosity wrote:


You said forced theatrics casting as you as mafia. The endpoint of my analysis was that I thought you were town.

On January 31 2013 03:37 BinOnFire wrote:
Yes, you created a scenario where I was cast as mafia, and then concluded that you thought I was town.

>_>

On January 31 2013 03:41 BinOnFire wrote:
That's exactly what I wrote. When you cast someone as something, it implies that that's not their actual role, eg "the actor was cast as a ninja zombie dragon." The point is that writing up a fictional script to make your point doesn't actually make your point any more valid.

On January 31 2013 03:47 BinOnFire wrote:
Then let's leave it at that. Yes, I understand that you're saying that you don't think I'm scum. Now, why should that convince me that you're not scum? Anyone can point town-reads in whatever direction they choose, and it's things like feeling the need for theatrics, and in general being of much less substance than usual, that make me suspicious of you.

No hard feelings

On January 31 2013 03:49 BinOnFire wrote:
The scripted scenario, what else? If you had just said "There is no mafia motivation for this line of play," that would be one thing, and your post



should have stood by itself. Why follow it up with something that doesn't add any more weight to the argument?

On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


I was going to put that in spoiler tags, but it deserves to be seen.

---

Let me get this straight: I forced you into a shitty dichotomy? Nope. All I said was that you seem overly butthurt over HRM and if you had an actual reason for not wanting a shambling herd of zombies, you should come out and say so. Of course, my tone was taunting, because I really want you to post more, because I have been leaning scum on you all game and that has not improved over time.

PS. I haven't asked NT or iGrok to call me scum and they also have their reservations about zombies. NT and iGrok are straightforward: iGrok just doesn't want rampant power growth from anybody and NT just doesn't want a null read getting too much power. I have my reservations about both reasons and have given my counter-arguments.

You, however, shroud whatever reason you have in policy chatter. Instead of giving an actual straight reason you give vague platitudes like:

Which sounds great, but you give no actual way of MAKING everybody stronger.


Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.

You... well:

1. Utter dearth of sensible scumhunting in your filter.
2. Vague policies with no practical import to the game.
3. Inconsistent play: fear of zombies into giving away free zombies.

But it's okay, you're probably both back into lurk and I won't get a response. You have until the attack phase of D2 to convince me you're not scum.

/Acro

On January 30 2013 22:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:


No, we don't even have a QT yet ^^ He was so kind to provide me with the deck we are playing, though.

On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:


You best be providing some good evidence for this one.

Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never.

-marvelbabe

On January 31 2013 03:09 BinOnFire wrote:


What do you mean, I've been posting whenever I've had the chance :O

The filter comparison between SNB's MTGI and MTGII is pretty stark. This post in particular strikes me as very suspicious:



As an SNB post, this feels very off to me. Not calling Minds Aglow by name, despite having specifically freaked out about it and Collective Voyage earlier,

lol you serious? why would i waste my time calling things by name? i have better things to do with my time than type out "minds aglow", im already sneaking time off of work to post

and then providing the vaguest excuse for a town-read ever, jars strongly with what I've read from him elsewhere. It's just so detached and apathetic, very different from town SNB in MTGI, but very close to how I would have predicted a mafia player to react to the Join Forces mechanic.
yeah whatever. try comparing this game to my most recent mafia games, rather than to a game from over six months ago.

If anything, he should be ecstatic by the plan, not alarmed, because putting everyone in the position of having huge creatures to attack with sooner makes his policy recommendation much more relevant. Instead of returning to consider the ramifications of that, he sinks further into inactivity.



This sounds like a deliberate obfuscation of the plan, which he seemed to perfectly understand a few posts ago. An attempt to cast doubt on CH, sowing seeds for him to return to later? This lets him pick a fight and feign productivity while discrediting a player I expect to be a powerful town asset. His theatrics in casting Oats and I as scum also seems forced and tacky.

this is also dumb. its not obfuscation, my consistent and legitimate objection is to acro having a bunch of zombies and probably being retarded and using them to kill me. not to people drawing cards. as i've said, i don't dislike the plan, i dislike the fact that it disproportionately gives acro the ability to be a loose cannon.

And his last few posts are all apologies for his MTG ignorance, when that's both easily corrected, and irrelevant to the fact that he hasn't been contributing.
[green]this is also dumb, thats from marv.

On January 31 2013 04:17 BinOnFire wrote:
Proactively casting spells that give the town cards at a 7:2 ratio is one of the dumbest things that a mafia player in this setup could do. It's almost as bad as the "shoot-your-scumbuddy-for-town-cred" line

On January 31 2013 04:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Yo S&B, what do you think of Xfire?
Do you still think CH is suspicious? Can you post a valid case instead of "he's too aggressive and self-centered, therefore is scum" ?

/G

On January 31 2013 04:22 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Yo S&B, what do you think of Xfire?
Do you still think CH is suspicious? Can you post a valid case instead of "he's too aggressive and self-centered, therefore is scum" ?

/G

On January 30 2013 02:27 Nova_Terra wrote:
I am not quite OK with revealing our decks, not for my own sake, but because if anyone decided to run life gain cards, they'd have little hope of avoiding scum targets. I'm fine with revealing decks, for instance my own, but I don't feel that it should necessarily be a requirement.

On January 30 2013 02:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
2 things before dinner:
I feel that ThePoster is doing a fine job, and has been attempting to do more actual scumhunting and pro-town things than the rest of us. Compared to CH, where I find that much if not most of the time he has been trying to explain why he feels that Minds Aglow is good for the entire town, not only for him. the second thing is related to this:
How is Minds Aglow particularly pro town? If we have to discard back to 7 anyway, I don't like giving CH 10 zombies. Why? Because if he gets 10 zombies before we can get anything that could even come close to rivaling that and he turns out to be scum, we're screwed. Thats like mafia having 30 kp, and we couldnt even be sure if he IS scum because he could just target "scummy" town players. kill 2 of them, and the games like, over. unless someone draws some miracle, that is.

On January 30 2013 03:17 Nova_Terra wrote:

Durr. Completely misread Collective Voyage.
Heres the thing. I have a very low amount of basic lands, and from what i can tell, CH has none. what would this mean? Tons of zombies. Furthermore, there is no reason to believe that we would know who the scum are even if we did end up with 7 players left, and I would think that we may be in a similar situation (of not knowing who the scum are) then.
I would agree with using Collective Voyage on a smaller scale, but 20 lands each? I think we're begging for trouble. The strength of town is their numbers and collective majority, all we would end up doing is making it easier for people who make one slightly scummy mistake to get killed.
We have good minds here, lets figure it out.

On January 30 2013 07:03 Nova_Terra wrote:
Yes, i have a slight suspicion of stutters for his early posting, which is only slight as if hes at work it makes sense, and slight suspicion of crossfire for the reason already said.
I am not particularly suspicious of Aperture Science, as i feel they/he would be acting differently if he was scum. I do understand how grey's post rubbed a bit weird, but i think that it was less of a scum problem than a phrasing problem.

On January 30 2013 07:22 Nova_Terra wrote:

The probability of them both being scum and acting like that is low. I'm more suspicious of crossfire than stutters. I'm currently looking at Marv+s&b's filter, and i'm seeing things that i dont like. I'd love it if we could all take a look at their filter, because i'm not sure if what im finding scummy is just (marv's?) typical posting style or if it is actually scummy. Also, there is the s&b policy post, which looked to me like a cut and pasted prepared "See im doing stuff!" type post. With relevant informatiOn added in after, of course.

On January 30 2013 08:04 Nova_Terra wrote:

Marv+ s&b

On January 30 2013 16:35 Nova_Terra wrote:
As i said, a analysis on suck will be forthcoming. Also i feel like many of those are self explanatory

On January 31 2013 03:51 Nova_Terra wrote:
Hey guys, popping in to give an update, had a rough afternoon and thought i might be getting fired from my work as my boss just left the company and everyone is running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I still find marv/s&B to be the most likely scum, and i will elaborate on this tonight at any rate. I really need a cold shower and some food right now though.

On January 31 2013 05:01 Acrofales wrote:
Okay, I'm done reading Bin and it was rather unproductive.

It confirmed to me that Oats is all over the map. The scum explanation is as above: he throws oil on pointless conversations, hoping their ignition derails town. The town explanation is that he's a newbie who has no real clue what he is doing. Honestly, the former explanation requires Oats to be quite a lot more devious than I have seen from him in previous games. In CT he was also bullshitting his way around and making stupid posts. I have not yet read that newbie game where he was scum and got lynched D1, which insofar as I know is his only scum game.

MG brings up some good points about SnB (not playing to his town meta) and Marv (pointless theatrics, overdoing his town read on Bin), which I find myself agreeing with. Also, his MTG play seems town motivated, although I don't buy that he'd play the deck any differently as scum. He needs his lands out to do anything, and giving town lots of creatures is fine as long as you can avoid them attacking you (by looking like a super pro-town plan maker). I would like to see more in the line of his posts at SnB and less in the line of explaining how pro-town his plan is. If his strong card requires him to have 22 mana, he'd need to get that land out asap anyway.

This makes me null, with a slight lean towards town. Now back to SnB/Marv.

/Acro

On January 31 2013 05:16 Acrofales wrote:


It was just something I picked up from doing my own cutesy QT talk. I might be overestimating you. What I realized while writing that up is that you used that as a reason for labeling him town. Now, you are a good enough player to realize that if you can make up a cute QT talk for why it makes no sense from a scum point of view, you SHOULD immediately jump to the conclusion that the same QT talk makes no sense from a town (hydra) point of view.

That should lead you to realize that that whole interchange is null, not townie. Yet, you went ahead with your blatant town read anyway. Maybe I'm overestimating your town play, or maybe you are scum who is using his prior knowledge about Bin's alignment and your cute QT convo is exactly that: theatrics. In that case I wouldn't expect you to put as much thought into it and you might overlook the fact that a convo between the two hydra heads about the topic makes equally little sense from a town point of view.

/Acro

On January 31 2013 05:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Damn S&B, I don't know what to think of you

Marv gives me slight town feels with his attitude (attitude alone though, not his play, i.e lack of scumhunting and taking a strong position in town), but you gave me so many "bad" feelings dude.

Like you going against Nova up there, and having that "I don't give a fuck" attitude.

Let's start somewhere: Skim Nova's filter from the previous game. Do you still find him scummy? Do you agree with what I've said a few posts back?

/G

On January 31 2013 05:37 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well Suck, apparently this "lack of reasons" is explained by some IRL stuff.
I do want to wait to see what he pulls up, although I don't think it'll surprise me or anything.

Last game, he said "Kill Fulla, and maybe Zealos/Grey" on T1 and that's it regarding what he was pushing. I don't see much change in his "decisiveness" from there, can you point that out?

Also again, how does this change your read on Stutters and Crossfire?

/G

On January 31 2013 05:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


I find this post townie for a reason. I don't get the feeling scum Nova would jump on it like this, just to get "enthusiastic" about it and then promise the "analysis" on Suck

I find it more likely townies jumping on posts like mine that way, while scum would say something like "Hmm, I agree with you bla bla bla I think they are both indeed suspicious bla bla bla".
It's the way he did it basically.

I don't really see anything that can tell you "Yes he's surely scum" like you guys say.
Yes, he "barely" called you out....but he's Nova. You guys are "vets" and thus finding evidence to point you as scummy is not as easy as saying "Fulla/Zealos is not doing shit kill him", which is pretty easy to do and effortless, and he in fact did last game.
You can in fact see him thinking Grey is scum but never really posting anything about it (in the last game). He did in fact "promise" to make an analysis on you guys, and IRL stuff kicked in and he couldn't, so him not making a case yet is not alignment-indicative

Like...I can't see why you guys are "so convinced" about him being scum.

/G

On January 31 2013 06:07 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
marv, why won't you do this with me. A short conversation about Hopeless "the Rock" Hydra. Your read on him and your reasons. I need this from you, just one more time.

p

On January 31 2013 06:09 Nova_Terra wrote:

Hes "so convinced" because im calling him out on being scummy, and therefore has to make a move to make me look less credible before i can get the analysis (which is my fault, got delayed by all this shit).

On January 31 2013 06:09 Nova_Terra wrote:

Hes "so convinced" because im calling him out on being scummy, and therefore has to make a move to make me look less credible before i can get the analysis (which is my fault, got delayed by all this shit).

On January 31 2013 06:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


It's obviously a figure of speech. Also if you think there is a scum between the hydra then what I said is true
And why does that make you now answer my question about Suck? :/
Wut



Marv's "lazy" attitude gives me a slight town feeling, in the sense that he didn't seem to "push a scum agenda" and actively try to disrupt town and the like like I'd expect from scum marv.
I'm not that sure about them to be honest, and I don't know if I should rely on that...



Well, you made a gigantic case on him and concluded with "let's kill him". I'd think that's calling him surely scum.



You really believe him not following up with that "case" on yours is intentional?

/G

On January 31 2013 06:17 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


It's obviously a figure of speech. Also if you think there is a scum between the hydra then what I said is true
And why does that make you now answer my question about Suck? :/
Wut



Marv's "lazy" attitude gives me a slight town feeling, in the sense that he didn't seem to "push a scum agenda" and actively try to disrupt town and the like like I'd expect from scum marv.
I'm not that sure about them to be honest, and I don't know if I should rely on that...



Well, you made a gigantic case on him and concluded with "let's kill him". I'd think that's calling him surely scum.



You really believe him not following up with that "case" on yours is intentional?

/G

On January 31 2013 06:29 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Also S&B, would you mind answering this?



He was indeed your "top scumread" at the time, based on your post at least

/G

On January 31 2013 07:31 Nova_Terra wrote:

Howbout this: nonsense is displayed, reacts extremely defensively in slight circumstances, leads the town in circles back to policy, adds little to nothing to town scumhunting.

On January 31 2013 15:47 Nova_Terra wrote:
Well i was trying to stay relatively null on CH but im having a hard time finding a scum motivation on any part of his last analysis, and its quite similar to the thoughts i was having but was unable to put them down well.
BinonFire makes good points about rockhydra, who would be my 2nd priority for a hydra scum.

On January 31 2013 22:49 Acrofales wrote:
Xfire and Nova: still waiting for answers.

Suck: do something useful instead of repeating what has already been said.

On January 31 2013 23:09 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:

marv, you recently (in the past week or two) have talked to me about meta/mentality reads on both hopeless and zebzet, I'm interested to hear you thoughts on the two of them this game and I don't understand your inability to produce this read.

p

On January 31 2013 23:20 RockHydra wrote:
My hydra-tip: use two browsers

/zebezt

On January 31 2013 23:24 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. Pretty bad of you to take that as a town tell from him. Other than that, I still have to filter him properly, so no comment.

/Acro

On January 31 2013 23:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


Response:

I can, and do, read.

On January 31 2013 23:34 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Since you understand this marv I was hoping you would say it, why have you opted out of giving hope a town read on his meta?

p

On January 31 2013 23:20 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Also, we are about 70% sure about who we're attacking, but waiting for some critical pieces of information. I also haven't properly filtered Rock and AS yet. They were low priority due to earlier meta-based reads on H1 and iGrok's single big analysis, but continued lack of involvement is casting doubt on both of these reads.

On January 31 2013 23:35 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

I wouldn't fail, if Prom would actually say what he means, rather than making us guess about whether he means the content or the form of stuff he quotes. Anyway, I've decided that before filtering Rock and AS, I should take a better look at you. I went with an early gut read and left you in the town corner, but have not ever taken a stab at actually looking at your filter.

Flooding the thread will not stop me from filtering you. I've played with Xatalos!

/Acro

On February 01 2013 02:41 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
K. Pretty much done with Poster's filter for now. Didn't find anything new. There is a gigantic amount of fluff, but hidden between the trash posts there seems to be a fair amount of scumhunting, though not nearly as much as he claims to be doing. Particularly this was funny, because he had done 0 scumhunting himself at this point. However, he seems to be actively contributing and trying to figure things out for town. Confirmed that he's not on the kill list for today.

Also some outstanding questions:
1. You may indeed play instants during the attack phase (see OP).
2. Given the choice between a 2/0 and a 0/6 creature, I would always play the 0/6, because the 2/0 goes straight to the graveyard

/Acro

On February 01 2013 02:52 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Suck, when Stutters has made a greater contribution to the thread than you, things are starting to look pretty bad.

On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this:

Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games:

LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1.
PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon.
Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1.

I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game.

The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day.

Verdict: scum

On January 05 2013 07:14 Kurumi wrote:

FINAL Day 1 Votecount

BloodyC0bbler (13)
marvellosity
Clarity_nl
Hopeless1der
HiroPro
froggynoddy
[UoN]Sentinel
iamperfection
thrawn2112
VisceraEyes
Djodref
Promethelax
Keirathi
Lazermonkey

Marvellosity (12)
Palmar
supersoft
kushm4sta
Toadesstern
debears
Mr. Cheesecake
tube
Meapak_Ziphh
Chezinu
yamato77
Foolishness
grush57

hopeless1der (1)
wherebugsgo



Palmar (1)
BloodyC0bbler

tube(1)
Vivax

wherebugsgo (1)
Jackal58

Haven't yet voted (1)
Eywa-


Day ends in 15 minutes.

On December 02 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote:
I am Detective

now fuck off all of you.

On February 01 2013 03:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING:

I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied).

Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum.

Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol.

/Acro

On February 01 2013 03:45 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

No that's a fucking excuse to do nothing and say "olololol I do something as scum so I have to be town!!!!" which is some of the worst reasoning I've seen in my life.

~dandel

On February 01 2013 03:46 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well marv, this certainly doesn't "feel" like you playing scum, you seem too content to just be. You don't seem to be pushing a scum agenda or creating confusion, or just trying to appear as a pro-town moffo to mislead town.

Sadly your counterpart doesn't really feel like it :D
(he was the one making the "shitty case" against Nova in the first place)

Did you check if you 2 have the same alignment? Maybe this is Hydra-Ception and 1 hydra head is one alignment and the other hydra head is another alignment!
.....maybe Prome........but... :O :O :O :O

/G

On February 01 2013 03:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


Your supporting evidence is simply that you haven't been caught. It's like a burglar being caught after committing 20 crimes without being caught and saying "well, because I wasn't caught the other 20 times, I cannot have been the burglar this time, because I wouldn't get caught".

It ignores all other evidence that points to you being scum and simply assumes the conclusion. You commit an inductive fallacy.

/Acro

On February 01 2013 03:58 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:



......wow

If he lied to you I'll laugh my fucking ass off.
Although that'd be a pretty fucking sweet strategy by a scum S&B lol
He can even access the scum QT behind your back, but use you to convince people Suck is town (since you marv would technically be town)

BIG PLAYS!

/G

On February 01 2013 04:03 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Hey marv, if you see a "Scum Beast Attack" PM in the "Sent" out-box from your Suck account, let us know okay?

/G

On February 01 2013 04:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:


No, because the vast majority of the times you enter house 1 you don't have to run from the police either and you have conveniently discarded all of that from your sample.

On February 01 2013 04:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I would make a fine burglar I take it

Stutters...yeah I guess? It is a literally answer to a question I asked, so I guess it did answer what I wanted. I'll process it later.

I'm kind of worried Nova hasn't shown up or participated in any discussion for a while.

/G

On February 01 2013 04:23 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

No, it doesn't, because your fingerprints are all over the damn house. Now let me read Rock's filter.

On February 01 2013 04:30 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
What about the cat in the 2nd house? Do you give him milk and cookies and stroke his back so he doesn't alert the owners of the house you've been in it?
And what about the 1st house?

Answer me this marv, it's of utter importance

/G

On February 01 2013 04:35 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
You know what the whole discussion of houses and burglars managed to do? Completely derail the discussion and bury my thoughts on Marv and SnB, as well as give them an excuse to be busy without doing any scumhunting at all. So good job on scoring another scumpoint.

Here are my earlier thoughts: nothing has changed.

On February 01 2013 05:12 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
marv, you do have to take into account some people don't really weigh in on certain things as others (even if those things are important).

Things like this happen all the time. Townie A thinks he's "surely town" for X reason that in his mind should be apparent.
Townie B thinks that reason is bullshit, thinks A is scum, and thinks A is scum for justifying his towniness with that reason
Townie A thinks B is scum because that reason X is "apparent" and thus A thinks B would instantly figure out A is town if B was town, therefore A FoSes B
B thinks this is OMGUS because he thinks that reason is bullshit for thinking someone is scum, thus keeps FoSing A
A thinks B is scum even more for keeping ignoring reason X and going against him "so easily" (calling it OMGUS, etc) without really thinking about it
A and B go against each other and create a shitstorm in the thread that will never end until one of them is misslynched.

Happens like in 70% of mafia games.


/G

On February 01 2013 05:40 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Hey marv, is this "good enough" for you to sheep me?

/G

On February 01 2013 05:45 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
I dunno about Xfire now. He could be just busy town.

He doesn't have time to cast anything, doesn't have time to even attack with his creatures.
Well...I dunno.

If we kill Aperture and he flips scum, it'll give us more info, and we can catch the remaining scum.

Right now I'd say it's between Xfire/Rock maybe.
If I'm very wrong it could be Bin/CH/Stutters though (and maybe that Bin thing is a bus?).

/G

On February 01 2013 05:51 RockHydra wrote:

Did anyone actually look into how much effort went into Nova's case against SMTD?

On February 01 2013 05:53 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
The giant image is Dandel's fault. He promised it would resize >@

On February 01 2013 05:56 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Have you looked at Xfire's meta? His town and scum play are worlds apart. This is his scum play.

On February 01 2013 06:26 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

How bout you comment on the 2 cases that are currently dominating the game?

On February 01 2013 06:49 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
So, we an interesting option right now:

We could discard 2 additional cards and create another zombie now, to attack with next turn, giving us 2 more KP to use on turn 2.

HOWEVER

This means we give up basically any hope of any future power at all, as well as the potential for 8 additional damage we might be able to do that acro hinted at

Discuss

On February 01 2013 07:32 Stutters695 wrote:
The case against aperture is good however two things concern me about it. First is your timing although this is a very minor point because with how few attackers there are. You said in your case that you had already given him extra time so why not post it twelve hours into the phase instead of less than an hour before the deadline?

The other is that we still haven't seen grey and earlier you guys made it sound like iGrok trolls early. I'd have to check his meta for that but I don't have the time at the moment.


I'll look into it, but I think cross is so obviously scum he must die first.

On February 01 2013 03:58 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:



......wow

If he lied to you I'll laugh my fucking ass off.
Although that'd be a pretty fucking sweet strategy by a scum S&B lol
He can even access the scum QT behind your back, but use you to convince people Suck is town (since you marv would technically be town)

BIG PLAYS!

/G

On February 01 2013 08:35 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Agreed.

On February 01 2013 09:15 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
have I mentioned how much I hate people just giving up and trolling the thread? Way to not fucking play the game, I don't enjoy trolls.

p

On February 01 2013 09:21 FiveTouch wrote:
Are we not actually able to eliminate Crossfire tonight?

On February 01 2013 09:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
But apparently we can't

We need to wait for Nova

marv, what do you guys can do this turn?

/G

On February 01 2013 09:26 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Bin dies tonight with the mafia beast, how can you protect him?

Either way, you can put out something that can help us kill the remaining scum tomorrow

/G

On February 01 2013 09:28 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways, we can go hunting for the remaining scum

Who here thinks Aperture isn't the remaining scum?

Also, who thinks that CH/me/Rock/Bin could possibly be scum in any way possible (regarding what's happening with Xfire and previous interactions)? Please raise your hand.

/G

On February 01 2013 09:33 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Yes we should blame stutters.

And marv.
It's obviously all marv's fault.

~dandel

On February 01 2013 09:34 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Why do you randomly include yourself in that list?

/Acro

On February 01 2013 09:38 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
The towniest town to ever town one might say

p

On February 01 2013 09:41 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Okay this is going nowhere

Just everybody conclude I'm the towniest town to ever town who caught all scum by himself and single-handily won this game, yes, even if it hasn't ended yet
Saying otherwise is just derailing the thread, and is scummy.

/G

On February 01 2013 10:38 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Then why did he completely ignore Xfire's scum claim and say "Lynch this almost confirmed town guy here"?

......well...I guess he did claim stupid perhaps

On February 01 2013 10:44 BinOnFire wrote:
Guys.

Read. Seriously.
Also I got hit by mafia creature so, Im the only confirmed town here. SO SHEEP ME.
And kill Xfire first. Then Aperture.

On February 01 2013 10:50 BinOnFire wrote:
Yes.
How does it not make sense?
Actually I think CH might be 3rd scummiest.

MINIONS.
hey

On February 01 2013 22:26 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Well in the end we're still 1 damage short.

Suck, do you have a mana enchant left over you can cast on novas forest so he can use his treetop?

~dandel

On February 01 2013 22:39 Clockwork Hydra wrote:

Just tell me what cards you have and i tell you right now :3

~dandel

On February 01 2013 22:58 Acrofales wrote:

No. SnB said they had one in their hand to start with and they only discarded one

On February 02 2013 04:59 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Woot forgot he can sack his goblin+shaman to destroy other creatures...


....so, do we destroy both of them?
Aperture, you can sack your Braid of Fire to destroy his Shaman, and Rock can sack a Walker to destroy his Goblin.
He can't do anything else if we do that right?

/G

On February 02 2013 05:04 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Welp actually no
We need this figured out ASAP


Does this mean one can sack a land to destroy a non-land permanent then?

/G

On February 02 2013 05:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Thanks, Suck, you idiot. We had already thought of this possibility (well, of him sac'ing shit to stop our attack), but figured he hadn't realized it. While I feel it is a town tell, because scum would just post that shit in the QT and laugh while town goes to hell, it was incredibly stupid to tell Xfire what he can do to survive.

/Acro

On February 02 2013 05:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Anyway, due to Xfire being stupid, the plan still works.

On February 02 2013 05:11 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
We will cast Death Spark on Xfire, doing 1 damage. 4 Zombies do 8 damage. Ninja does 2 damage, Lavamancer 1 and Treetop Village 3 = 15 damage. GG.

Although we were hoping our ZI would survive.

On February 02 2013 05:25 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Well at least it confirms CH and Suck as town, like 100% basically.

Silver lining I FUCKING GUESS

On February 02 2013 05:30 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


How the fuck should I know?

He may have another of those "Syphon Soul" in his hand, thus he can play another Swamp tomorrow, cast it, and survive even longer.

Guess what? If he gets ANOTHER Syphon Soul he can SURVIVE EVEN LONGER


NICE. REAL FUCKING NICE

On February 02 2013 05:32 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
How can Aperture guarantee his death?

On February 02 2013 05:36 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:


He already did, check the Board thread.
He dealt 3 damage to Xfire by copying my Chain Lightning


Anyways, Yeah, Appy is posting and doesn't even seem to give a shit that A CONFIRMED SCUM WILL LIVE ANOTHER DAY.
Like....h...waht.....aahasd

On February 02 2013 05:18 Aperture Science wrote:
I am not willing to sacrifice braid of fire. It is too key to our deck and we don't have a backup one available yet.

On February 02 2013 06:50 RockHydra wrote:

/me slaps suck with a large trout

whyyyyyyy would you give him those ideas

and also why not play words of war

On February 02 2013 06:50 RockHydra wrote:

/me slaps suck with a large trout

whyyyyyyy would you give him those ideas