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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:09 yamato77 wrote: Look, bugs, if you are town you should quit it with this everyone is bad nonsense and find a scum. I don't think the lurkers are scum. Do better. I disagree | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:10 wherebugsgo wrote: nope, I disagree with you. OH WE AT AN IMPASSE NOW You don't just "make" cases on people. That's fucking fabricating. I didn't tell you to make a case. I told you to find scum. Your lurker lynches aren't convincing. Otherwise I lynch you for being anti town with this bullshit you're spreading. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Disagree with what? | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
If it was so easy to find these "active scum" you're talking about, how come you haven't done it? Oh, right, because scum probably aren't active. How many active scum have you encountered in your time playing mafia? Maybe one per game? Two, max? Do you understand what common activity patterns of mafia are? If so, tell me. How does standard mafia play look like from day 1 to day 2 to day 3, from an activity perspective? Do you think all the scum will have the same activity levels? What kind of activity level did the already-flipped mafia have? What does that tell us about the rest of mafia? Have you considered how the host might balance the game? What does the already-flipped mafia potentially tell us about this? If you can answer all of these questions satisfactorily and still say that you think scum are active, then you should simply go ahead and lynch me tomorrow and then call me bad, and cry when everything I said turns out to be correct. My reads may not be correct, but given that a majority of the players in this game right now are NOT active, scum are bound to be NOT active. | ||
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Vivax
22272 Posts
On November 15 2011 09:41 Palmar wrote: I'm dead serious. WBG is a good lynch. He's probably top 2-3 scum players in this game, but his town play is more middle of the road. He's hard to read because he's loud and arrogant without being right often enough to call him out on it when he's wrong. Top town players like Sandroba or myself can be figured out just based on if we're actually making the right calls or not. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:18 wherebugsgo wrote: make a case, find scum, they're two different ways of saying the exact same thing. If it was so easy to find these "active scum" you're talking about, how come you haven't done it? Oh, right, because scum probably aren't active. How many active scum have you encountered in your time playing mafia? Maybe one per game? Two, max? Do you understand what common activity patterns of mafia are? If so, tell me. How does standard mafia play look like from day 1 to day 2 to day 3, from an activity perspective? Do you think all the scum will have the same activity levels? What kind of activity level did the already-flipped mafia have? What does that tell us about the rest of mafia? Have you considered how the host might balance the game? What does the already-flipped mafia potentially tell us about this? If you can answer all of these questions satisfactorily and still say that you think scum are active, then you should simply go ahead and lynch me tomorrow and then call me bad, and cry when everything I said turns out to be correct. My reads may not be correct, but given that a majority of the players in this game right now are NOT active, scum are bound to be NOT active. I judge people on their play this game in correlation to how good I think they are and what on think they should be doing. All of your questions are just a bunch of characteristics about a game that have no definite answers. You can think you have some predetermined formula for how scum always play and their activity levels in relation to other scum but it isn't more convincing than someone's play RIGHT NOW. I think about mafia objectives in the game at hand and judge who is pushing them. Who is making plays that align with what mafia would want to do? How do mafia expect to win this game right now just by lurking? It doesn't make sense. If the scum are that bad and not playing to win then we do have it in the bag. If you honestly believe the last scum are lurkers why do you keep saying that town is bad and in a bad position? If that is the case then all town has to do is iron out suspicions and arrive at the conclusion that lurker lynching is the best option. But for that to happen everyone has to actually play like a town or be confirmed town. You are neither and thus worthy of suspicion. Don't you think that getting suspicion thrown on you as town three games in a row is indicative that you don't play like town even when you are town? To me that suggests that the people suspicious of you are, indeed, justified if their suspicion. Yet you call us dumb and refuse to see that what you are doing at the moment is anti-town. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On December 24 2012 06:55 yamato77 wrote: I mean, you do realize that you're a potential lynch candidate right? So if you are town don't you want to prove it instead of letting us think about lynching you? Or are you just not reading the thread? Of course I want to prove it. I'm in the thread when I can be and trying to make posts from my phone when possible. If you checked my previous games, this happens every time and every time I'm always town. On December 24 2012 06:57 wherebugsgo wrote: not only that, but I'm being called scum for calling eywa and stutters scum? It's a fucking process of elimination, it doesn't take a genius to see that scum absolutely suck nards this game. If we are to take claims at face value then the remaining scum are pigeonholed. We just lynch through several players in order and autowin the game. If we don't take the claims at face value then it's either because we flipped a townie or it's because we have a very strong reason to believe that the claims aren't true, i.e. at this point a counterclaim. Given that no one can explain to me how either stutters or eywa is town, the easiest path of action is just to kill them both after debears. So what happens if debears flips SK? Do you honestly think that the both remaining scum would be the two lurkiest people in the game? I wouldn't be surprised is Ewya is scum but it would be an incredibly stupid play for both of us to be scum and lurk. If you think we're both scum, how do you explain wiggle's death being so easy like he was being bussed? If I was scum wouldn't I be in a significantly better position by railing the shit out of wiggles and building town cred instead of staying on the fringe while people call for a vig shot on me all game? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:28 Stutters695 wrote: Of course I want to prove it. I'm in the thread when I can be and trying to make posts from my phone when possible. If you checked my previous games, this happens every time and every time I'm always town. So what happens if debears flips SK? Do you honestly think that the both remaining scum would be the two lurkiest people in the game? I wouldn't be surprised is Ewya is scum but it would be an incredibly stupid play for both of us to be scum and lurk. If you think we're both scum, how do you explain wiggle's death being so easy like he was being bussed? If I was scum wouldn't I be in a significantly better position by railing the shit out of wiggles and building town cred instead of staying on the fringe while people call for a vig shot on me all game? this guy clearly can't read mafia godfather dying d1 = scum are weak. weak scum lurk. This type of correlation is not genius-level play. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:57 iamperfection wrote: lol @ stutters K. Check me, shoot me, lynch me if you don't believe me. You'll be wasting whatever action you take but if you can't see how glaringly obvious it is that having the two biggest lynch/vig candidates via inactivity is a bad play, you're going to waste an action on me to confirm that I give what time I can to the game, just like every single game I've been in where this came up. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 24 2012 09:27 yamato77 wrote: I judge people on their play this game in correlation to how good I think they are and what on think they should be doing. All of your questions are just a bunch of characteristics about a game that have no definite answers. You can think you have some predetermined formula for how scum always play and their activity levels in relation to other scum but it isn't more convincing than someone's play RIGHT NOW. I think about mafia objectives in the game at hand and judge who is pushing them. Who is making plays that align with what mafia would want to do? How do mafia expect to win this game right now just by lurking? It doesn't make sense. If the scum are that bad and not playing to win then we do have it in the bag. If you honestly believe the last scum are lurkers why do you keep saying that town is bad and in a bad position? If that is the case then all town has to do is iron out suspicions and arrive at the conclusion that lurker lynching is the best option. But for that to happen everyone has to actually play like a town or be confirmed town. You are neither and thus worthy of suspicion. Don't you think that getting suspicion thrown on you as town three games in a row is indicative that you don't play like town even when you are town? To me that suggests that the people suspicious of you are, indeed, justified if their suspicion. Yet you call us dumb and refuse to see that what you are doing at the moment is anti-town. everyone's definition of optimal play is different. Yeah, optimally if scum were in such a shitty situation they would likely try to do something bold to get back in the game. However, do you really think they would be playing optimally in the first place if they lost their godfather d1? Come on, the evidence is there. The evidence suggests that your assessment of the game and the scum team is wrong. If a team doesn't have the clout to prevent its own GF from being lynched d1 it probably means they're not playing very optimally. Secondly, name one player in this game besides yourself or me or maybe even Palmar who is actively trying to find scum or is actively trying to participate in the game. Answer me this: what has Morbidius done since claiming cop? Is he such a shining example of town play that you'd rather attack me for "not doing anything" over him? Why the double standard? Because I'm a "vet"? Because he claimed something? Face it, your argument reeks of confirmation bias. You assume I'm scum and then try to fit everything around that conclusion. Everything you see is an indication of me being scum even if it wouldn't be an indicator for almost anyone else in the game. That's what's frustrating. It doesn't matter if town has done this several games in a row. The simple fact is, my play hasn't changed. Palmar accused me of being scum last game too. If he's town this time, clearly he hasn't learned anything. (and guess what? He provided no reasons both times) Really, I'd love for you to tell me how to respond to such baseless accusations. I can simply ragequit and let you guys lynch me, but that wouldn't be playing to my wincondition. All of your questions are just a bunch of characteristics about a game that have no definite answers. You can think you have some predetermined formula for how scum always play and their activity levels in relation to other scum but it isn't more convincing than someone's play RIGHT NOW. The fact that you didn't even choose to consider thinking about the questions suggests that your confirmation bias makes you impossible to convince. So, go ahead and vote me tomorrow, since you clearly have no intention of changing your opinion regardless of the ample evidence staring you in the face to make an informed decision. I could spell it out for you, but I fear if I insult your intelligence any further you'll be less likely to learn anything in the postgame. | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:05 Stutters695 wrote: K. Check me, shoot me, lynch me if you don't believe me. You'll be wasting whatever action you take but if you can't see how glaringly obvious it is that having the two biggest lynch/vig candidates via inactivity is a bad play, you're going to waste an action on me to confirm that I give what time I can to the game, just like every single game I've been in where this came up. i was laughing at you because your not reading the thread. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On December 24 2012 10:00 wherebugsgo wrote: this guy clearly can't read mafia godfather dying d1 = scum are weak. weak scum lurk. This type of correlation is not genius-level play. I have read your arguments and they're nothing more than poor speculation. Since I know I'm town, I obviously know you're wrong. Thus I'm wondering what you're going to do once I flip town. I find it funny that you're talking about confirmation bias when I'm providing scenarios that would be just as plausible when my alignment is unknown. I'm trying to convince you to at least consider alternatives; if I die in the process so be it. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
But for me to not want to vote you I want you to think about Promethelax. He wasn't here day 1 with his thread clout to stop the wiggles lynch. Day 2 he pushed a super easy lynch on Eywa. He could fit into both our models of the scum team. You say it was weak day 1 and lurky, well that is exactly what zelblade was. Day 2 Prome was active and pushing mafia objectives as I outlined in my case against him. What say you? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9645 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:23 yamato77 wrote: Bugs, I can see where you're coming from. All of the points you make are pretty decent. I've come at you with quite a bit of confirmation bias but I really hated the way you made that post. Don't you understand that going around calling us all dumb isn't something a townie should be doing? I understand you feel frustrated with the accusations at hand but honestly I don't know how you could make a more anti-town statement at this point in the game. But for me to not want to vote you I want you to think about Promethelax. He wasn't here day 1 with his thread clout to stop the wiggles lynch. Day 2 he pushed a super easy lynch on Eywa. He could fit into both our models of the scum team. You say it was weak day 1 and lurky, well that is exactly what zelblade was. Day 2 Prome was active and pushing mafia objectives as I outlined in my case against him. What say you? We don't know if pushing Eywa is scum motivated. Eywa is the scummiest player in the game currently. Prom is very justified in pushing him. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:23 yamato77 wrote: Bugs, I can see where you're coming from. All of the points you make are pretty decent. I've come at you with quite a bit of confirmation bias but I really hated the way you made that post. Don't you understand that going around calling us all dumb isn't something a townie should be doing? I understand you feel frustrated with the accusations at hand but honestly I don't know how you could make a more anti-town statement at this point in the game. But for me to not want to vote you I want you to think about Promethelax. He wasn't here day 1 with his thread clout to stop the wiggles lynch. Day 2 he pushed a super easy lynch on Eywa. He could fit into both our models of the scum team. You say it was weak day 1 and lurky, well that is exactly what zelblade was. Day 2 Prome was active and pushing mafia objectives as I outlined in my case against him. What say you? Do townies or scum like calling attention to themselves? If you piss people off what are you doing? You're inviting reactions, and putting yourself under scrutiny, no? When people are playing like idiots I call them out on it because I want them to stop. Some people have stopped, and most are just not playing the game, so it's not like it matters to them, since they won't read what I have to say to begin with. The rest think it's scummy to call people dumb when they do dumb shit because they don't think about what it means to be scummy. Promethelax wasn't here day 1 because he's a replacement. See why I'm calling people like you retards now? | ||
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