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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:37 iamperfection wrote: We don't know if pushing Eywa is scum motivated. Eywa is the scummiest player in the game currently. Prom is very justified in pushing him. OK so I guess we just lynch Eywa? The only thing we lose if he's town is the NK on whoever. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:39 wherebugsgo wrote: Do townies or scum like calling attention to themselves? If you piss people off what are you doing? You're inviting reactions, and putting yourself under scrutiny, no? When people are playing like idiots I call them out on it because I want them to stop. Some people have stopped, and most are just not playing the game, so it's not like it matters to them, since they won't read what I have to say to begin with. The rest think it's scummy to call people dumb when they do dumb shit because they don't think about what it means to be scummy. Promethelax wasn't here day 1 because he's a replacement. See why I'm calling people like you retards now? It's not retarded to make the observation that the player he was replacing fits into your idea of how day 1 went. Stop being such a dick. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:41 yamato77 wrote: It's not retarded to make the observation that the player he was replacing fits into your idea of how day 1 went. Stop being such a dick. You still apparently haven't read my posts about Promethelax. He is markedly more active than zelblade, something I've said at least three times. I have no respect for your ideas when you clearly don't even have a cursory understanding of basic things that are happening in the game. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9646 Posts
Unless your someone like marv who has the capability to be a dick regardless of alignment. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:44 iamperfection wrote: being a dick is usually a town tell. Unless your someone like marv who has the capability to be a dick regardless of alignment. in b4 argument "wbg is good scum" | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 24 2012 11:42 wherebugsgo wrote: You still apparently haven't read my posts about Promethelax. He is markedly more active than zelblade, something I've said at least three times. I have no respect for your ideas when you clearly don't even have a cursory understanding of basic things that are happening in the game. How do you not understand that your idea is solely based on day 1 play, which Prome was not a part of, so is therefor not subject to the same logic. If he's scum team he could very well be active scum because your criteria for eliminating that possibility only apply to the events of day 1. Day 2 I think is a total wash either way because it was dominated by town outing and lynching the SK. So far I have given thought to what Prome as scum would be doing and he has fit the model. Come in, discredit Palmar even though he led us to the GF, throw doubt on a lot of townies and then push an easy lynch. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
I also don't understand your fascination with active scum. Scum don't have to be active. Your whole sentence about "he fits the model" is exactly what I'm talking about. It's just more fucking confirmation bias. Whether or not Promethelax actually is scum, you've already assumed he's scum and you're just trying to make all the events fit that idea. You're not objectively looking at his alignment at all and probably can't be convinced otherwise even if there, at some point, exists strong evidence that Promethelax is town. At this point I'm 95% sure you're town, so I kindly ask you again, to stop and think about the game from an objective perspective. Today literally no one did anything-nothing was to be done anyway, because the SK claimed. I'm going to spell it out for you now. My argument against zelblade was primarily motivated by meta. I felt that zelblade did not play like he does normally as town and he was not pushing normal town objectives. He seemed to have no interest in the lynch, contrary to his normal town contribution. He also seemed to fit some of his more complacent scum behaviors. He was far more inactive and his posts were far weaker than what I normally think they are like as town. Generally if you can conclusively show that someone is pushing a scum agenda and not playing to their town meta, it either means that they are scum, or there is some aggravating factor that is causing them to play differently. Since he was replaced out, I had no idea whether it was because he was actually scum or because he simply did not have the time to play satisfactorily. Clearly the latter is not at all alignment indicative so I just put him at null and allowed Promethelax to redeem zelblade's play. n1 Promethelax is pretty enthusiastic about joining. This also is alignment-null, given that he was enthusiastic before the game too. He, however, seemed eager to contribute and to make some sort of impact. I don't find that very scummy at all-it's something townies tend to do. Still relatively null but leaning town. I basically told myself I'll let him slide till tomorrow, let's see what he does. There was nothing to indicate that he was a better lynch than stutters/eywa/debears. Since debears was a free lynch it was pretty much expected that no real scum reads could be made today. Perhaps, if the entire town was proactive, we'd be able to do so. However, when even a claimed cop and a mafia veteran don't do anything it pretty much leaves scum open to sit around and do nothing too. Eywa has nothing but a votepost since last cycle. Stutters is not reading and had 0 contribution at all even in the small timeframe where the lynch wasn't secured. Yet you want to keep these two alive? It makes no sense to me. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I want to get this stuff talked about because no one has commented on it at all. If I'm wrong people should tell me but all anyone did was say "wait until later". Well okay, I waited and now I want answers. You being such an asshole about it isn't exactly what I expected but that's just you I guess so I'll deal with it if I actually want to win instead of just lynching you for it. You can keep calling it confirmation bias but I think I made a valid point that Wiggles did the same things, so that should tell us something about what scum would be trying to do this game. I might be wrong but I take that chance on anything in this game. I do think he's put in a lot of effort and seems to be making observations that I have made to myself. But if I feel he has a chance to flip scum I want him gone because his influence on the thread is only going to grow if he stays alive. So I make my accusations and see if people agree. Obviously you guys don't so I am probably wrong. Oh well. So we'll lurker lynch. Because I can see how the both of you could be town and getting them out of the game is good. But if they both flip town I'm gonna be pissed. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 24 2012 05:03 yamato77 wrote: The only reason I see for someone to keep doing what you're doing in this situation is to put down confirmed townie as "bad" and continually get his analysis excluded from conversation. Scum want to do this. My ego has nothing to do with this. I am town, I have had a pretty good game so far. You keep insisting that I haven't which I think is suspicious. Respond to my case on YOU. Why do you keep acting like Palmar is scum? Why do you want to put me down? We were the first two people on Wiggles and I did a lot to make sure he got lynched. You straight up lied about this fact and misrepresented the situation as if I was just some lucky bandwagoner. If you read the thread with any closeness you would know this is false. Scum would want to do this so they could potentially gain some influence in the thread and push their own objectives. I don't care about your case on bugs. I know what there is to think about bugs. He's been bad and on the wrong side of two different reads so far, debears and wiggles. His switch off debears is suspicious. I don't think anything he has done is particularly alignment indicative but I'm sure he's good at scum so I pay attention to him. You pushing eywa so hard is exactly what scum would do today if debears hadn't been a prime target and outed himself. The fact that you come out and do exactly that makes me think you're scum. If you're a townie, why push a lurker lynch? I don't think the lurkers are good lynches, and I don't think town should be told they are either. There's scum among the active players, I'm 100% sure. No, I was putting you down as bad because your play was sub optimal and I have a low tolerence for that. I would be willng to bet on your townieness. I just realized what you are doing in this game, you are pressuring the people who are being over aggressive and unhelpful the way you and Kick and Oats were in xxxii. You have learned from thatgame and are trying to use it to your advantage to find scum. I appologize for antagonizing you, it was and is unnecessary and I'll do my best to stop. I don't want your opinion excluded, I do think you are town, what I want is for you to use the ample amount of time you have to play this game to help yourself learn to play it well. In post game we'll talk about why you haven't had the 'good game' you think you have had and ways to improve. The problem is a difference in my assesment of you and your own though. Your case on me is bad. let me break this down. 1) Why do I acct like palmar is scum? I am a paranoid person. palmar is a very good player and he has the ability (in d1 esspesically) to appear townie. He knows the right things to say. He also has a habit, as scum, of going into lurk mode hardcore d2 or 3. I am worried about palmar but really, if he isn't NK'd we can just lynch him at lylo. Any time he lynches town we can count that as a scum claim. 2)Why do I want to put you down? Becasue I was mad at you for paying poorly. It isn;t reasonable and I'm sorry. I'm doing my best to interact with you as I would any other player whom I respect. 3)Why did I misrepresent your play. I don't feel that I did. You were the second vote for Wiggles but did not push his lynch like Palmar did. Now the way Palmar pushed his lynch also worried me. There was a recent game where Mattchew was bussing a teammate and all he did was get in the thread and say "this dude is scum, lynch him" while not providing arguments. Palmar's push on Wiggles felt very similar and is another reason I was suspicious of him. You did not push the Wiggles lynch in the same way though you were a crucial help in getting the wagon rolling. Once again let me suggest that you care about what I have to say. I am town here and ignoring me even if I am scum hurts you as a town member. The things Bugs has done are, just as he says, more alignment indicative for him than they are for others. Bugs is a guy I know to be very good at this game while others are not. You are suggesting that Eywa- is town. Eywa- is playing distincly anti-town and while I cannot say with any certainty that he is scum I believe that he is. I think you would do well to look at the recent Your Clothes Give Them To Me mafia in which a scum never posts a single thing. There are no town motivations for doing what Eywa- did and his recent flip in Witchcraft (town) shows that he doesn't play town this way. I am pushing Eywa- just as any sane player in this game should be doing at this point. Unfortunantly Eywa- needs to go for us, as a whole, to have a chance. I think that he is scum because of his clear lack of fucks to give but even if he isn't a guy who never posts is totally unreadble and cannot be brought to lylo. While it would be prefferable for Eywa- to be viggied that seems unlikely. Bugs' argumens about a weak scum team are valid, you would do well to think about them. There is no reason to assume that all scum are active and, in all likelyhood Wiggles was the major scum Thread presence. For a look at defeated scum barely playing look at NMM XXIII where Shady Sands and myself just gave up after a d1 scum lynch and allowed town to coast to victory. Not that we've got that cleared up I'll reread the thread from when I went out and post some more thoughts. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On December 24 2012 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote: like really, Prom, you think both eywa and stutters are scum. If I'm scum why the flying fuck would I push both of them over someone else when the godfather is already dead? You think a half decent scum would shoot himself in the foot by bussing his own teammates after 1/3 of the scumteam is already dead? Vivax isn't doing shit, the only reason I'm not attacking Prom is because he's actually doing something and is a replacement, and Palmar hasn't done shit either. Any half decent scum could make the miller/cop claims but the only reason they are probably town is because of how dumb the standard play on the forum is right now. Since that goes for either alignment it makes less sense that they would take such risks as scum. Realistically anyone in this game could be scum, if they were half decent players. However, everyone is playing like trash. It makes no sense to single me out for it when I can't tell whether you all are being stupid for the sake of being stupid or being stupid because you happened to roll scum. Just think about it, in how many games do you see mafia just roll over and die on d1? In how many games do you see 75% of the playerbase literally sit on their asses throughout the entirety of d2? In how many games do you see some guy FUCKING CLAIM SERIAL KILLER? jesus, this is just moronic. I think you know that as a town player you would have to push at least one of them. You are a good scum player and being a good scum player means that you know what a townie says in a situation so yes, I think if you were partnered with either Eywa or Stutters you would push them today. There isn't really another option. Think about this as similar to what Palmar said about Marv's reaction to Thrawn's stupid d1 miller claim, you are saying the right thing but you are smart enough to say the right thing even if you aren't town. On December 24 2012 09:06 wherebugsgo wrote: if he was telling the truth and shot Toad, means Palmar or I got shot, yeah? Or vice versa, he shot Palmar/me and scum shot Toad or one of you/Palmar was scum carrying out the night kill. Never leave out an option. On December 24 2012 08:38 Vivax wrote: That's just Bugs. He fell into a bag of coke as child. This is a pretty good way to understand Bugs' personality. He is an aggressive ass, but often a smart one. On December 24 2012 09:08 Vivax wrote: Didn't he just say that he lied about [his shot on toad]? While he did say that he said it after he was going to be lynched 100% while before when he was arguing the 'let the sk live' option I think he told the truth. Palmar (if he is town) makes much more sense as a scum shot than Toad. While Toad a strong but not top one percent very townie looking guy makes the perfect shot for an SK after a d1 scum lynch. On December 24 2012 09:13 yamato77 wrote: I didn't tell you to make a case. I told you to find scum. Your lurker lynches aren't convincing. Otherwise I lynch you for being anti town with this bullshit you're spreading. You would do well to realize how anti-town Eywa-'s play is. He has added nothing to the discussion, has not tried to find scum, has not tried to prove himself townie and has not, in point of fact, tried to play. On December 24 2012 09:22 Vivax wrote: From Mini Mafia X, upon many voting for him at the start of day1: On my first read through I wasn't sure and again now I am not sure, Vivax, what do you intend to imply with this post? I see both Morb and yam are present at the moment. yam, I'd love a real response to my post besides 'lol okay, lynch Eywa' which, I think, it was very obvious I was planning on doing before that post. Who are your other scum reads, both of you. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Other than Eywa, WBG is the most suspicious scum at the moment. Too bad i'll die tomorrow and won't be able to get a check on him. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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iamperfection
United States9646 Posts
On December 24 2012 13:31 Promethelax wrote: why are you so sure you'll die? because he is the cop | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
If, theoretically, you were scum would you shoot Palmar the Vig or Morb the cop? | ||
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iamperfection
United States9646 Posts
On December 24 2012 13:56 Promethelax wrote: If, theoretically, you were scum would you shoot Palmar the Vig or Morb the cop? i would shoot the cop because anyone he checks is confirmed | ||
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