Parallel World Mafia: Chaos of GreY
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austinmcc
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Palmar, can I ask not for names but whether there are other linked pairs, or at least the possibility for other/different linked pairs in the future? | ||
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@randombum On December 13 2012 17:06 randombum wrote: Well done reading, and I like him as townie too. Could you explain why? You momentarily suggested lynching me because I was from the other thread, which I found horrible reasoning, but then read me and concluded I was townie. Without any specifics. Why do you read me as townie (not that you shouldn't)? Not @sloosh I like sloosh's filter the most out of people on this side of things. He was reading both threads, was looking at why people were voting foolishness, and brought the ##worship up at a random time. Don't understand dionosore's reasoning on Foolishness at all. Votes because Foolishness talked about swaps, then said he didn't want to waste time talking about swaps an hour and twenty minutes later. Talking about swaps was bound to happen, but, to some extent, people like sandroba are right that we needed to stop. Given the order of Foolishness's comments, swap talk with a later comment that we need to stop swap talk (especially for you guys and now us guys in the lynch world), I don't see the contradictions that Dienosore wants to find. Don't love his secondary explanation either: On December 13 2012 12:37 Dienosore wrote: That is one of the reasons, yes. I've also factored in Marv's meta read on him and how Fool handled it. Also, he hasn't really denied being scum, just sort of has been deflecting the issue by arguing with folks. Also, my maps show that Fool has absolutely no support from anyone on either world. In fact, he even has some negative vibes from Sandro and Yomato, both of whom I consider to be playing fairly towny at this point. Now that I've tilted my hand, it's your turn to explain your reason for voting for him. First sentence vague imo. Second sentence finds Foolishness scummy because he hasn't explicitly DENIED being scum. Not exactly what I want to hang my hat on. Maps show Foolishness having "no support" from anyone in either world, without an explanation of why that makes him scummy -- scum is going to let 25% of their team go down D1 without ANYONE putting up a fight at all? And he gets town vibes from yamato, who is a crazy person. Dienosore, thoughts on clarity's swap? Read on Keirathi? Do you still find yamato townie? | ||
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On December 13 2012 01:26 Palmar wrote: Palmar could respond that Foolishness is mafia, shuddup and sheep the vote. Could give some crappy reason.I think Foolishness is a really good player. While I am completely aware that marv hasn't exactly been a shining beacon of green, he's not done anything I can see that warrants Foolishness calling him scum at that point. So, Foolishness is trolling, scum, or seeing something I don't see. I'm waiting for him to come back and actually give me a legitimate reason to consider his early call that marv is scum. If he doesn't have a solid reason for it, I'm inclined to think he's scum, as I don't often see Foolishness troll, although he's notoriously lazy on day one. Instead, he actually types out a full response as to what he thinks Foolishness might be doing, and why Foolishness might be scum given what he's doing. I'm not used to seeing complete thoughts like this from Palmar to random questions. Palmar also heavily telegraphed how Foolishness's response would shape his read, whether honest or not, which feels a bit strange though. If Palmar's read is truly going to be influenced by Foolishness's response, then he wouldn't go telling Foolishness how to respond. I dunno, when I first read this post I liked it a lot, found it very townie, but the more I think about it the more it feels a bit out of character - fully formed response to a question, giving out a thought process that's invalid once you put it into thread. | ||
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On December 14 2012 00:28 Palmar wrote: I was explaining how I had expected him to answer, that's why I asked him to lay out his thoughts before I actually explained what I had hoped for hearing. To put it simply, by the time I explained what I wanted from him, I also closed the window on an explanation from him. Fair enough. If you don't want to claim anything further about your role, fine, but you can't really get peeved at Clarity for swapping people with no notice if you're going around attaching them with no notice, and no explanation for what might be going on in the future. | ||
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On December 14 2012 00:35 Palmar wrote: The king does as he wishes. I'm going to interpret this as "I've still been playing sven as a hard-support the last couple months." | ||
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You need to be a bit more clear as to what you do: In your first post, you said: After several turns your ability reveals a person who was swapped. You're forever stuck in your world Potentially "we" can tag a scum if "we guess" a swap reveal correct Later: Your ability shows alignment and/or role you assume Later later: You get to observe swaps that happen at night Do you have to activate this ability in order to "observe swaps that happen at night"? Does your ability stay activated permanently? What do you mean by "observe swaps" (We can all see who gets swapped, but you don't seem to be saying you can check everyone who gets swapped each night. So do you actually observe anything that the rest of us don't?) Your ability specifically says it "reveals" someone? If there's no detail, you probably should be asking what that means, rather than just saying it isn't specific. Are you un-swappable? If not, what do you mean by "forever stuck in your world"? | ||
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On December 14 2012 03:14 Dienosore wrote: The reason I find Yamato as town is because my maps indicate he has been fiercely interacting with something like 60% of the game's population. I just don't see a scumball creating such a large profile so early in the game, specially on a relatively non-threatening swap day. I guess you could argue that scum would use this time of peace to stir up as much trouble as possible, but my gut tells me he is just a deranged towny. I know you guys had a tense interaction in the other world, so please, I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about him too. I'm actually alright with that logic, although he doesn't seem to have a mode of interaction besides "fierce." My current thoughts are that he's overly aggressive and that I don't really want to follow or put faith in his reads, but that he's not scummy. His continued insistence on the mementoss read when we didn't have a lynch for another 72 hours in that world tells me that it's a real read, something he wants to push, and not just for show. Scum could have caved, or at the very least could have sought more opinions and then caved later, whereas he just continued to hammer the same point. Overall, I'm mildly townie on him. | ||
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"None of the following players are anti-town at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" | ||
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I'm primarily concerned with lynching scum at the moment. Scum would be anti-town all day urrday, so this question catches them. It doesn't catch any kind of weird alignment swapping, and I omitted clarity_nl because all sorts of weird things could happen there. I just want to narrow down candidates for today's lynch, since the swap kind of reset this world to the beginning and we're not doing much. | ||
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"None of the following players have anti-town roles at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" | ||
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On December 14 2012 04:04 slOosh wrote: "None of the following players have anti-town roles at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" I like the phrasing here because Grey has warned of third parties. However, our win-con is the following: On December 11 2012 07:00 GreYMisT wrote: Town will win when all anti town elements are eliminated from the game We need to get rid of scum AND any 3P that count as "anti-town elements." Therefore, I want to phrase the question as anti-town. The fact that our wincon is phrased like that means that there very well could be multiple third parties, some which are friendly/neutral, and some which are "anti-town." Anti-town is the phrasing I want then, because it will cover scum and anyone else we need to kill, 3P or no. Just taking out scum doesn't meet our wincon, and I don't want the results muddled by catching a false positive on a 3P that isn't anti-town. So if someone would please go with "None of the following players are anti-town elements at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" I like that phrasing better, because that is the wording of our wincon, and the wording of EVERYTHING that we need to get rid of. | ||
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On December 14 2012 04:38 Dienosore wrote: K so let me see if I have this right. Austin's power involves making other people ask questions, and then he get an answer that only he can read via pm. SOUNDS SKETCHY TO ME. It's hard for me to blindly trust someone like this. What's to stop him from lying about the results if he is scum? Im paying attention to both worlds. I have two tabs open and I'm monitoring both at the same time. I don't have any scum reads atm. I am curious, though, as to why you were so quick to swap your vote onto Crossfire with little explanation. There is NOTHING to stop my from lying about the results. Absolutely nothing. However, you should be looking at WHY I'm using the power now and HOW I'm using it. (1) We lynch today (2) There isn't a good lynch candidate on the table right now (3) Discussion stagnated I am using my power to (1) Try and confirm some reads (2) Narrow down our choices (3) Create discussion (4) Get rid of my power, it's one-shot, so that I can play normal and not be weird. I'm not town because I have a power. But I'm using my power right now for townie reasons, and you can either trust or not trust what I report as the PM I receive. You might also be able to see why I asked the question earlier about whether one player could have multiple alignments, as I wanted to know how to phrase my question. | ||
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"None of the following players are anti-town elements at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" | ||
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On December 14 2012 04:48 slOosh wrote: "None of the following players are anti-town elements at the moment: Palmar, slOosh, Crossfire99" (Don't tell the bar association I'm doing this) | ||
austinmcc
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No matter what they are, 17th party planar dragon, whatever, if they're anti-town elements, we need to get rid of them. If they're NOT anti-town elements, we don't. Whatever their own wincons, whatever we might classify them, the deciding factor for what I need from them is whether or not they are "anti-town elements" | ||
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On December 14 2012 04:56 randombum wrote: Austin, You asked me earlier why I liked you for town. Keep in mind that its only a mild read. It's because I liked how you responded with yamato77 in the other thread. What's up with that objection? a joke cause sloosh said it? Past games have had phoenix wright as a role, and he gets a one-shot objection to any statement made in thread. iirc, usually the mods answer the objection in-thread, by posting whether the objected-to statement is true or false. | ||
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The above statement was true. None of those three players are anti-town at the moment. | ||
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slOosh was a strong town read for me, but he was also a bit slow out of the gate, reminding me somewhat of Liquid City. I generally find his posts easy to read and well thought out, and added him specifically to help myself. I want to be able to read and trust what he says, and I figured he would pop up town. Crossfire99 made some townie comments about past games of his, and those struck me as town. I wanted to throw in one player who was less well known/less active, because if I could hit a townie person in that group it means that we hopefully don't mislynch them ever and it means one less ? towards the end of the game. Went with 3 players because the more I add, the harder it is to draw any kind of conclusion from the check (1 anti-town, 2, more?). The double-swap also threw a wrench into the works, because it's POSSIBLE that all anti-town elements on this side of things got swapped to the other side. If that happened, nothing I can do about it right now. 3 felt like a number that I could have correct reads on, and takes enough people off the table (and specifically some people that I want to hear from off the table) that I think we can work together and get a solid lynch today. | ||
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randombum marvellosity kenpachi clarity_nl dienosore At least for D1, I'm happy to throw clarity off the list. Scum starting with 2 in each world means only 3 scum total if he's scum, and if anything I would think he'd be 3P or some kind of half-one alignment, half-the other. We should not absolutely count him town, but for purposes of the D1 lynch I don't think he's a good option. | ||
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slOosh was my strongest town read, based on a couple things I mentioned when I joined this world As I reread everyone, I got a little paranoid that I was wrong - he was relatively inactive, and the marv worship question that he'd brought back up matched up with a question he asked ... I think risen in LC. There was a point in LC where he brought up a day-old post to ask someone about it. But overall, I chalked that up to me being paranoid and didn't want to second-guess my initial gut read. The fact that he asked a question about an old post in a thread as scum, and did the same thing here, isn't really something I want to go blowing up my town read on him about. I'd rather trust my read that he felt particularly townie, rather than freak out about a particular activity level early in a game and the fact that he had one post here than was similar in some ways to one post he'd made in one scum game. | ||
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Neither tested nor asked whether I could object to my own statement. Assumed based on what I remember of past uses of the Phoenix Wright role (I'm being super-cagey and not claiming my own role), someone else had to make the statement. There was a big hullabaloo in Bastard 2 because PW wanted a question, someone phrased it slightly different, and PW objected to the slightly different question. Besides, shouldn't be objecting to your own statements anyhow. | ||
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MY wincon, the TOWN wincon, says I need to eliminate all "anti-town elements." My objection was to a statement phrased with "anti-town elements." I don't care about "scum or third party," or whether a role is scummy but a player is town or a role is town but a player is scummy, whatever those hypothetical situations might be. I care only about getting rid of "anti-town elements." Whatever that phrase encompasses, that is the category of people I need to get rid of. None of the three people in that statement are "anti-town elements" (or at least not in the world they're in). Beyond knowing that, I don't care, and that was the exact quality that I'm concerned with. Not alignment, role, anything else, but whether someone IS or IS NOT an anti-town element. | ||
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On December 14 2012 05:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't think we should just no-lynch, assuming Foolish and Keirathi were the two scum.I have a really hard time seeing who to lynch. I would be most comfortable with a Dieno lynch but am I convinced he's scum? Not really. He's just playing a bit off compared to chrono but it's his second game so it could be anything. I personally had a townread on randombum before he suddenly wanted to lynch austin, but that was a really weird moment and I can't see a motivation for any alignment for him to act that was so I'm going with it was fault logic. But this whole world can't possibly all agree that Foolish and Keirathi were the two scum in this world? Those two are my best guess but in no way are they set in stone. I was less certain of Foolishness's scumminess than this thread, because ... the whole thing was just kind of weak. If he were scum, I'd expect some kind of defense because it was sitting right in front of him. Palmar wanted to know why Foolishness was doing what he was doing, and it would have been plenty easy for Foolishness to figure out the "town" answer and give that. He didn't. So I wasn't left being sure about his scumminess. | ||
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IF you don't think someone's alignment can change, then my questions are fine. If they're not anti-town elements at the moment and they're not going to change, then it's the exact same result as asking if they're anti-town period. I'm not concerned about scum actually. I'm concerned about a third party who's pro-town on one side and anti-town on the other. I'm concerned about clarity having a good and bad side, etc. It wouldn't make any sense to have a scum player that can swap alignments. It WOULD make for an interesting role if a third party could swap alignments depending on the world. Anyway, bottom line is the first bit. If you don't think alignments can change, then it doesn't matter whether I ask about alignment NOW or alignment PERIOD. You'd consider those two to be the same. | ||
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for the time being I haven't figured out what I think on you yet. I don't have a problem with you criticizing a second round of swap conjecture, it IS a subject we needed to move off of, but I haven't solified a read on you yet. But that's not a relevant issue right now. | ||
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Other world MAY want to send us a scummy player today. You currently have 10, will have 9 after swap. There is a chance we swapped you 1-2 scum through clarity's ability. That would mean 6/3 or 5/4, and you can't even be guaranteed that the entire 6 or 5 is "pro-town." If you swap a townie, the odds seem higher that scum could come to control your world, and also we may be hard up for suspects again over here on cycle 3 (I hope not after 96 more hours). Overall, it looks like having roles that swap people, and sometimes combine for multiple swaps, means that our goal should be to even things out so that town controls both sides of the game, and can lynch scummy players in both sides of the game. | ||
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Nope, it's not provable. You'll have to trust me or kill me, which is why I noted that I think PW roles in the past were confirmed in thread. That said, you should be able to look at my reasoning (and my stupid-ass no-stance play yesterday because I was planning on using my power as a DT-ish check) and at least make a read on me without having to see me dead. You can also wait for scum to shoot me, but I am assuming they won't because then they confirm three players on this side of things when I flip. I'm more or less okay with Sandroba's suggestion of kenpachi, but I think he's the default option and it's lazy to settle on lynching him without at least having any discussion. Was hoping Palmar or slOosh would be around and we could chat. marv's absence makes it difficult to get a read on him. Didn't add him to the check because of that, but also having a hard time wanting to lynch him D1 because of that. After Foolishness got swapped (and with crossfire being not anti-town), he's actually got really nothing of substance in this thread. I don't know any of his reads, I don't know who he'd like to vote, and overall it's just a blank slate. dieno, why do you want to lynch Kenpachi over other options here? You said you got town vibes from sandro, but never said WHY. You haven't said anything about randombum, anything about Kenpachi beforehand, etc. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:20 Dienosore wrote: What do I need to do to whip you guys into shape? Do you want more pictures? More cute dinosaurs? More squiggles? Just let me know and I will deliver! Se my above question. No pictures/dinosaurs/squiggles. Why are you voting who you are voting? | ||
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His talk about swapping second-scummiest seems near unworkable, and while there's a little bit of logic there something like that would confuse the game like crazy. He seemed to want one side emptied out of scum, having "confirmed townies," but I'm worried about any scenario where we try to get scum out of one side and all together in another. He hasn't really said anything about reads though. His vote on palmar seems partially joke-y. He's made a town read on me after I swap, and the timing DOES make it seem like he read through my filter. But...there's nothing else. I have no idea what he thinks about anyone, and I can't tell if I like that the only read he seems to have, me being town, is based on me being calm and rational, and on the fact that I agreed with randombum on swap strategy. | ||
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clarity's swap, my objection, after those points almost all the players that I'm concerned with - randombum, marv, kenpachi, haven't been around or haven't said anything. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:31 Dienosore wrote: I've already explained my reasons, austin. If it feels like there isn't much substance there, it's because there isn't. Clarity fucked us over and now we have little time and little evidence to try and piece something together. I'm doing the best I can with what limited resources I have. Stop tunneling me and maybe put forth some of your opinions on who we should lynch. Wha? Look at your post. On December 14 2012 06:11 Dienosore wrote: I agree with Sandroba that we should be focusing on Marv/Kenpachi. Neither have been particularly active, although Marv at least has made a little effort. It also seems Marv has positive support from a few people, while Kenpachi has only that 'joke' scum read from Keirathi. Unless you guys convince me otherwise, I'll be voting for: ##Vote (Grey): Kenpachi You agree with Sandroba that we should be focusing those two. You don't say why, unless the why is "neither have been particularly active," and I don't think you and randombum have actually been much more active than marv. You appear to be splitting them up on whether or not they have support from anyone. I don't know why Kenpachi WOULD have had support from anyone, since he never came up as a lynch candidate yesterday, there was no reason for anyone to discuss him or vote for him. | ||
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Also other world, clarity's swap is specifically different from a normal swap. When he swaps people, they maintain their roles. (We can talk more about that later but that means that (1) I want clarity doing any swapping on palmar, slOosh, crossfire. and (2) at some point I'd love to get swapped 2x, so that I can go back to where I was and then come over here through normal swappage) | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:37 slOosh wrote: austinmcc do you prefer randombum over the other two? He has shown that he is in the least reading the thread. I'm leaning kenpachi at the moment. I'm leaning away from marv for now based on some results. I'm fine leaning away from marv atm. That takes us to randombum dienosore kenpachi Kenpachi feels like the "nobody else looks scummy" option. At the very least, I don't want us voting him now and leaving votes there when we've somewhat wasted today. So I'm most interested in randombum and dienosore. Random HAS been reading thread, or was yesterday, but...in terms of what has happened during half this cycle, he's been MIA. He was commenting yesterday, on the swaps, on marv/foolishness/palmar, but then poof. Way less commentary when things started picking up with clarity's swaps and my objection. The change in reading/activity can be explained by any number of things, but ... I'm no longer sure that I want to stick him way on the side of "reading thread" after participation today. If that makes any sense. His reaction to clarity's swap, that clarity "screwed things up" is WEIRD. randombum was voting, and is voting, PALMAR. clarity didn't mess with randombum's vote, so I don't know what clarity could have screwed up. That phrase is...odd. Real odd. slOosh, thoughts on that post in particular? dienosore I'm waiting on, but he seems to be sheeping a thought process from some guy he's never explained his read on, and in doing so is voting a guy he says he is voting now as a way of "taking potshots at the scummiest looking lurkers." He's not explained yet WHY kenpachi is "the scummiest looking," unless less people talking about someone = scumminess in dienosore's mind. That troubles me. I would prefer lynching into one of these two today over kenpachi I think? Right now the more I look at them, the more I keep disliking little things. | ||
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That post from randombum: On December 13 2012 15:56 randombum wrote: So.... who do we lynch now? On December 13 2012 16:03 Clarity_nl wrote: Dunno, who do you wanna lynch? On December 13 2012 16:05 randombum wrote: Honestly, at the moment you for screwing things up. randombum was voting for palmar. He (I think jokingly) said palmar and marvellosity scum, gg. But when clarity swaps, he seems concerned. He asks who we're going to lynch now, and wants to lynch clarity for "screwing things up." Again, he was voting palmar. He had said NOTHING about foolishness/marv at that point. What was being screwed up? clarity really threw a wrench into the game state as a whole, and into this side's D1 lynch as it stood, but randombum didn't seem to have a dog in that fight. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:50 Crossfire99 wrote: I joined like a cycle or two before he died. So I can't make much out of him from that game, as I don't know what he did for most of it (iirc claim D1? do some stuff). Austin, didn't you play with Dieno in Chrono? I think this is the way he plays town from my cursory following of Chrono. I'm also less willing to be down with basing reads so heavily on meta. If someone's "meta" involves never substantiating reads, I'm going to find them scummy ALWAYS, because that's just a scummy thing to do. Even if someone does that as town, there's no reason why they can't easily do that as scum, and it's beneficial to do so as scum to boot. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:56 Kenpachi wrote: on another note, im a pretty popular topic Yar. Care to comment on any other topics? Could we get another votecount? | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:37 slOosh wrote: EBWOP: leaning away from marv pending some results. Was a weird phrase. Also, I gather that we're waiting for confirmation to see if you have a doublevote or there was a hidden vote? + Show Spoiler + ***PARANOID RAMBLING*** There's a chance that if someone has a gf-type role, they wouldn't be "anti-town element." This should be saved for WAY, WAY later, but I was just thinking about that while the whole doublevote thing came up. Seems like that's generally a mafia thing, or if a townie has it then they are informed of the fact. | ||
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On December 14 2012 06:59 Dienosore wrote: Austin, you think Sandroba is just "some guy" ? Lol. I think he is town because of his play thus far. He was scum last game, and I do not think he is playing at all similarly to how he did then. Here is YOUR OWN list, slightly revised of course. I took out myself because I am not scum, and clarity because he is too strange: randombum marvellosity kenpachi Randombum at least made an effort earlier on. I kinda think Marv could be scum, but I don't like a vote on him tonight because if he is town then he will be pretty valuable later on. Kenpachi is the scummiest looking to me because he has done nothing all game. Hence, my vote stands on Kenpachi. Are you happy now? No. I'm really not, even not trying to be a jerk here. Sandroba is town. Why? "Because of his play thus far." That's not an actual answer. That's a hollow statement. You think he's playing differently this game than last game. That's MUCH BETTER. That's something that isn't hollow, but it's (1) unsubstantiated (HOW is he playing differently) and (2) you didn't bring that up before. Moreover, if you're going to be making judgments on sandroba by comparing his play this game to past game, you should go look at kenpachi's games. Kenpachi is pretty well known for just playing his own game and not doing oodles. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:04 marvellosity wrote: Guys I'm here. Panicking due to lack of time, questions welcome, gogo. Need to read the thread. You. Alignment? (Don't lie) Thoughts on: randombum dienosore rugby as an olympic sport kenpachi You missed me objecting to a statement and telling everyone that Palmar, slOosh, and Crossfire99 are NOT "anti-town elements." So they're good to go for now, and they're worth listening to, although we haven't had a lot of time since then. Otherwise, there have been no big "AHA!" moments. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:07 marvellosity wrote: Because you've been gone and doing nothing and we can get to that later. Nobody seems to want to deal with lynching or not lynching you with you being gone today. Get over it. Also, I'm town. (And I DID ask you for your alignment).I just got to this. Why the fuck didn't you include me? This makes me quite suspicious Oh...wait. You mean in terms of the people I listed? SEE ABOVE. You've been gone, can't get a good read on you, wanted to stop at 3, blah blah blah. Shut up and thank me later for actually finding 3 townies. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:07 Dienosore wrote: It's less that I think kenpachi is totes scum and more that there aren't many other good options out there right now. I'll be glad to change my vote to randombum if kenpachi starts becoming useful really fast. That is what you are trying to get me to do, right? Change my vote? No. I'm less concerned with who you're voting than...how? I dunno how closely you followed CT after dying, but all the stuff I was calling phagga for is stuff I think is scummy. If you don't commit to reads, with reasoning, then your thoughts on everyone are just malleable and can change all game whenever you need them to. That makes YOU more difficult to read, and you look scummy, AND we can't really trust what you're saying about anyone because we don't know where it came from. I want actual thoughts, reads, that I can hold you to. Like, whether I agree with your ultimate read or not, I think the thought process behind a read can be very telling of someone's alignment. Why does X find Y townie or scummy? When you don't provide that, you look scummy to me. I want to be able to discern your alignment (or more specifically, find you town if you're town). I care about that more than I care about who you're voting for today. I don't want votes on randombum right now. But I don't want him sitting by the wayside. Bringing him up, tossing him around, and getting a decent number of "ZOMG DON'T LYNCH RANDOMBUM" is enough for me. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:09 marvellosity wrote: I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks of me, what gets me is that *austin* didn't include me as a check. austin is well known for having complete paranoia about my play. If I were going to check you, I'd have to just check you, because I'd be paranoid. I don't want to just check you, I want to actually narrow down the total options for anti-town folks on this side of the world. We already have two small groups to work with, I was able to cut the size of one group by 1/3 to 1/2. That's more important than your alignment for today, given that we needed something to get things moving. | ||
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I'm still slightly worried about the hassy swap. If we gave you 1-2 scum, I don't like the idea of swapping a townie, even if the townie gets powers (ESPECIALLY when (1) we don't actually KNOW hassy's townie or telling the truth and (2) nobody knows what he'll actually DO if he's here (he himself said some of the things might just fizzle or be bad iirc)). If scum NKs a townie on your side of things, we MAY be walking a very thin line on your side of the world. I'm really, really worried about this. | ||
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Look at randombum, dienosore, kenpachi. Then come back and ask questions later. | ||
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You guys are somewhere between 2-4 scum today on your side of things, out of 10 players. The one thing we pretty much can't afford to do is let scum control one side. They can always lynch townies or no lynch if just scum, they can NK people on the townie side, overall it just really messes with things if I try to play that scenario out quickly in my head. So whatever swap plan we want to have, I think the best is just to stay simple and attempt to keep scum from controlling either world. You swap someone tonight, and scum NK someone. If you swap a townie, and they NK a townie on your side, that's 2-4 scum and 4-6 townies. Or..."townies." Because they could be 3P, could be "anti-town elements," etc. We also don't know if anyone has a bonus swap, swap blocking, whatever. Anyway, even if we sent you ONE scum, that's 3 scum 5 maximum townies. All scum would ahve to do is convince 1-2 people to go their way, they lynch town tomorrow, and then control that side of things. On the flip side, we don't know WHAT we sent you, and we don't know what hassy is for you guys to send back. I can't really sit here and go "Well, you guys should send a definite scum player back this way." No guarantee what you'll send. But I think this issue needs to be raised, because almost all the townies are going to have to be on one page over there tomorrow. | ||
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following up after reading hassy's post. Some of what I would advise doing would be dependant on Palmar and clarity's roles. If clarity can portal every cycle, he can fix a perceived imbalance tomorrow on his own. If Palmar can tie people together, he may be able to do the same thing by letting us swap 2 townies to a particular side where we need townies. Knowing what they can do lets us know how much power we have to fix a perceived imbalance without being reliant on the voted-for-swaps. I think it's more prudent to swap someone scummy than to get you activated right now, hassy. I'm in the same boat as you where I'd like to swap and see if I have a secondary role, and clarity put me a step removed from that, but oh well. I'd rather make sure we don't get into a bad spot before that happens. If you're telling the truth, we're swapping you to activate your role, which would give you some random action. So starting cycle 2, you'd have some action to use but none of us know what yet. Even if we KNEW you were town, that's not a super-duper benefit to us overall. It's good, but I kind of want to get rid of a scum or two before we start moving people around for extra roles? Unless we have a good number of vigi roles, or can swap a good number of people on our own regularly, then we might wind up with you getting powers, but being unable to control half the game. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:29 marvellosity wrote: Well, you seem kinda interested so maybe you're town this game. sloosh for right now I think is town, Palmar is null. So really it's between austin and kenpachi. I'm fine with a policy lynch at this point and I don't trust austin for his checks at all. I don't know if now it's just ME being paranoid, but his explanation that he'd have to check me by myself seems such a copout. Pshaw. Look at the rest of my play this game. Or we can discuss my checks after this lynch/you can try to get me lynched/whatever. But you'll notice that the people who were around don't seem to be finding me scummy. At the very least, drop me for this cycle. Besides, you know I'll check you by yourself later | ||
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objection was 1-shot. On December 11 2012 07:00 GreYMisT wrote: Most players have 2 roles. Which role is active will be dependent on which world you are in. In most cases you will not know your alternate role until you have swapped Worlds. You may only use your currently active role. clarity's swap was a special kind that did not alter our abilities. Foolishness has his Chaos of Grey role/ability; I have my iGrok role/ability. If I get swapped back, and swapped over here normally, then there is a chance that I have another role. That's what I mean about wanting to get swapped. Not that I can re-up on whatever objection-making role I have, which was 1-shot, but that there's a chance I have a second role. | ||
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sex joke. | ||
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##Vote (GreY): kenpachi marv's return is funky to me, but in my head scum would prefer not to flip me and have 3 people confirmed not-anti-town, which should be putting me as reading him townie. in general, I think that he should be reading me as town if he were town, but I'm not certain of that one. Oh well. dienosore's vote is...what it is. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:47 Crossfire99 wrote: Austin if objection was 1-shot, how will you do this? On December 14 2012 07:45 austinmcc wrote: Keirathi, sex joke. FOR ANYONE ELSE! I HEREBY STATE THAT I HAVE MADE A MILDLY DIRTY JOKE, IN WHICH I INFORM MARV THAT I WILL "CHECK HIM BY HIMSELF" LATER. THIS WAS INNUENDO, ENTIRELY UNRELATED TO GAME. MY OBJECTION IS GONE. MY LIBIDO IS NOT. IF YOU WOULD ALSO LIKE TO BE "CHECKED," PLEASE SAY SO DURING CYCLE 3 AND I'LL TRY AND GET TO YOU AFTER MARV. NOTE THAT "CHECKED" IS BEING USED AS INNUENDO AGAIN. | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:06 marvellosity wrote: yes, I would absolutely expect him to include me on a check. In fact you were co-host in LV when I played around with austin in Toad's mason chat, and he's never trusted me since, and we've played many games together. austin is always paranoid of my alignment to the bold, why not? I don't have a DT check. I have an objection. The best way to use that is to narrow down the pool of people on this side of the game, because Foolishness was basically the only option yesterday and then he got swapped. Is it perfect? No. But at the very least I can get us to "there is someone we need to lynch in these 3" or "there is not someone we need to lynch in these 3." Between the two, getting "there is not someone we need to lynch in these 3" is the best outcome, because it's definite. Here are 3 people I can trust, we can trust. We KNOW that none of those folks need lynching. If I check 3 people and get a false, that there IS someone in the group I checked that is scum, that's a MUCH less preferable answer. We don't know if 1 scum, 2 scum, 3 scum. It gives us a small pool to lynch into if we want, but it doesn't tell us when to stop. If I'm going to check multiple people then, I'd rather carve an entire section of this world OUT. None of them are anti-town, and moreover, we can trust Palmar and slOosh's posts, which is something I value. That's ANOTHER bonus from checking a group comprised of only people I think are town. And...ta da! I found 3 townies, or 3 "not anti-town"ies. That is so far and away preferable to using the objection to check a group of people that I'm NOT sure on. If I check you and 2 others, and I get "oh shit dawg, there's some anti-town up in this bitch" then what do I do. We know you can't ALL be trusted, we know SOME of you are anti-town, but not which. I can understand you thinking that I'd check you, but the role is best used not as a check. The role is best used to get a group of people I have townreads on, and carve them away from the rest. That is a much more definite and beneficial use of asking about a group. | ||
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Yes, some of my reasoning is downright retarded. If foolishness flips, I'll look all wishy washy on some dude that flipped scum, but I don't really care. I'm both wishy washy in a lot of games, and marv is both right that I'm paranoid about him, but should also stick an addendum on there that I'm often paranoid about people he goes after 1 on 1 (Palmar in Rock Band, WBG in ... Paranoia, don't think there's more than that). It's one reason I find this whole thing funny. I was also defending Palmar oddly in Rock Band, when marv was going after him, and Palmar flipped scum. It's not 1:1, and yes, me talking about foolish here is some weird wishy washy throwaway half-assed defense-ish post. But...I actually do that a lot? I'm always surprised not to get mislynched for being wishy washy quite often. Anywho, as long as my reasoning comes through, that's usually what I rely on for people to see that I'm townie. I'm quite, quite worried about scum getting control of a world because we gave you guys scum, and nobody else (At least here) seems to be. Boo on that. | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote: you never said you were sure on any of them. You checked Palmar because you said he would be useful later if he were town. OF COURSE I wasn't sure about them. Yes, I say: That is so far and away preferable to using the objection to check a group of people that I'm NOT sure on but I also say: The role is best used to get a group of people I have townreads on, and carve them away from the rest. I'm not actually implying that i was SURE they were town, but they were my townreads.If you read my stuff on Palmar: On December 14 2012 00:03 austinmcc wrote: Palmar reads oddly invested to me at parts of this day, although hopefully that's a good thing. Palmar could respond that Foolishness is mafia, shuddup and sheep the vote. Could give some crappy reason. Instead, he actually types out a full response as to what he thinks Foolishness might be doing, and why Foolishness might be scum given what he's doing. I'm not used to seeing complete thoughts like this from Palmar to random questions. Palmar also heavily telegraphed how Foolishness's response would shape his read, whether honest or not, which feels a bit strange though. If Palmar's read is truly going to be influenced by Foolishness's response, then he wouldn't go telling Foolishness how to respond. I dunno, when I first read this post I liked it a lot, found it very townie, but the more I think about it the more it feels a bit out of character - fully formed response to a question, giving out a thought process that's invalid once you put it into thread. On December 14 2012 05:10 austinmcc wrote: I wanted to check Palmar because he felt kind of townie, and it's both useful to EVERYONE if we know he's pro-town and trust his stuff, and also now he can be a dick or whatever he wants to do and we'll at least know he's not anti-town while doing so. slOosh was a strong town read for me, but he was also a bit slow out of the gate, reminding me somewhat of Liquid City. I generally find his posts easy to read and well thought out, and added him specifically to help myself. I want to be able to read and trust what he says, and I figured he would pop up town. Crossfire99 made some townie comments about past games of his, and those struck me as town. I wanted to throw in one player who was less well known/less active, because if I could hit a townie person in that group it means that we hopefully don't mislynch them ever and it means one less ? towards the end of the game. Went with 3 players because the more I add, the harder it is to draw any kind of conclusion from the check (1 anti-town, 2, more?). The double-swap also threw a wrench into the works, because it's POSSIBLE that all anti-town elements on this side of things got swapped to the other side. If that happened, nothing I can do about it right now. 3 felt like a number that I could have correct reads on, and takes enough people off the table (and specifically some people that I want to hear from off the table) that I think we can work together and get a solid lynch today. I say he feels townie to me, and I give one reason, which is that he actually responded to Crossfire about what was going on. It felt ODD for Palmar, but in a good way. Then I ALSO think that it's a useful check to have if the read is right, because we can trust him and he can be a dick but will be a townie when he does so. | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:24 marvellosity wrote: it's not wishy washy, it's just downright nonsensical Foolishness being unable to explain his scumminess DOES NOT MAKE HIM LESS LIKELY TO BE SCUM If there's an easy answer to give that says "I had a townie reason for doing this" and someone DOESN'T TAKE IT, that's townie to me. Not gigantically so, I say I'm "less certain of Foolishness's scumminess than this thread" and "I wasn't left being sure about his scumminess." THAT is wishy washy as hell. Those aren't reads at all. But I completely agree with me that when there's low-hanging "Hey gaiz, I had a townie reason for doing x" fruit and you don't pick it, it makes you less likely to be scum. Scum can just pick the fruit and be done with it. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:55 Kenpachi wrote: i see so many random votes on me every game that i get so used to it and i forget what to say. A) You're terrible B) lols C) wanna die? D) All of the above E) explain your vote pls You and dienosore are our legitimate options. dienosore is...odd. And the fact that he just jumped in with a vote on me was so odd that it made me feel townie momentarily, so you got my vote! | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:29 marvellosity wrote: austin your play is eternally illogical This is the first time where I actually entirely don't care. Paranoia gets close, but this is way better cuz I haven't mislynched WBG by being an idiot AND I've confirmed 3 people. Even if you mislynch me, I think I did fine using mah powers, AND I got them out of the way so I could play this game like a friggin' normal person (until I get swapped twice and become retarded again). Here's what I'd ask: (1) Do you agree or disagree with my reasoning on wanting to check a small group of townreads being better than checking a group of players that I'm less certain on? (2) Do you agree with my worries that, if the other side got swapped 1-2 scum, things are Bad and we should Do Something About That. (3) If you want sandroba's thoughts, you can at least find them somewhat, in that I went from being a scumread of his to a townread, or went from whatever I was to him not wanting to lynch me. I'll make this a question? | ||
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In response to dieno, not here. That vote was just so weird that it threw me, and I wanted to make sure that I had something down before leaving the office. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:59 randombum wrote: Someone may have pointed this out before randombum, I'm not sure.Since there's no clear scum target and not enough time to find one in the next hour. I think I'm going to have to join the Austin train simply because 3 confirmed townies is super powerful if he turns town, and if he turns scum then that's even better. But this is a Good Thought. He is townier in my book now. People who mention this later get no points, because everyone should have been thinking this. | ||
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On December 14 2012 07:55 Kenpachi wrote: i see so many random votes on me every game that i get so used to it and i forget what to say. A) You're terrible B) lols C) wanna die? D) All of the above E) explain your vote pls Kenpachi, You're stranded on a desert island. A school of dolphins swims near you, made up of the players in this game (except they're dolphins). In your delirious state, you're pretty sure you can climb on one and it will carry you to a boat or civilization or somewhere better than a desert island. But you know you're only strong enough to grab hold of a single dolphin. Which dolphin is the oldest and sickest, the one you don't want to grab on to because it's probably gonna die halfway to rescue? Which dolphin do you grab? Which dolphin appears to be talking to you, even though you know that's crazy talk, dolphins can't talk? | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:39 marvellosity wrote: austin, do you really find Dino's blatant sheep townie? I find it blatant WTF. I'm looking him over now, but it was just so odd that I wanted to roll him around in my head more, not vote him right there. I'm stuck assuming that scum would PREFER not to have to kill me, because then three people get confirmed, so I'm not sure why, if he were scum, he'd be trying to kill me. But...nothing he does has made too much sense, so I don't think I can apply that line of thought? | ||
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I agree that dino is doing nothing but sheeping hardcore. He's been very explicit about his lack of scum reads, there's no way he's doing anything but sheeping. It's just so WEIRD. The progression of his posts, constant reminders that he has no scumreads, that he hopes someone comes up with a good case, that he's going after "the scummiest looking lurkers" when he has no scumreads to go after, that he's asking me if I'm trying to get him to change my vote (which implies that less than an hour before he votes me, he would have changed his vote to randombum, who I think only I was looking at?) It's just...you guys are going to say this is stupid/scummy, but it's like too much. It's beyond just sheeping. It's actively not caring/sheeping/trying to curry favor. It almost reads like it could be 3P? Some dude just sitting around, doing whatever, doodle-y doo | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:44 slOosh wrote: austin you have to vote in voting thread. Yeah, I realized I didn't. Is everyone on Kenpachi just because they're not sure on dienosore? | ||
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On December 14 2012 08:51 slOosh wrote: I don't think anyone is sure on anyone. I would prefer dienosore to kenpachi. Kenpachi is default, more or less policy, dienosore is friggin' weird, but I would agree with Keirathi that he's not been friggin' weird in a townie way. | ||
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no, not a fool. I don't think he's trying to get lynched or anything, I just can't make sense of it from any alignment. Who keeps saying they have no scumreads AND that they're going to vote the scummiest lurker? Who keeps asking others for cases and for their opinions when they give out almost none? | ||
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No. I don't actually think that, but it's a ... thing. That's just one of the most glaring bits of Dienosore's filter, is that he's constantly talking about wanting others to do the work. Actually, it IS kind of an interesting theory. He jumps onto me right after marv. He's asking where I'm putting my vote. He's asking if I'm happy with where his vote is. I don't see why he couldn't push his own reads though and wait for others to vote, he could totes be a Test Subject: Ssheep. | ||
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drazerk was like...limited in voting only, right? It's not that he couldn't make cases on anyone or call anyone scummy without someone else doing so first? If dienosore actually has some sort of awful role like that, then it feels like his is full-on don't-find-scummy-until-someone-else-does. Which seems particularly restrictive and unfun, but would explain his conduct to a point. The real question is whether his conduct is better explained by him being scummy or super odd. | ||
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On December 14 2012 09:01 slOosh wrote: What are you guys talking about? Wasn't HRE a Caller game? HRE was Caller, but the OP notes that there might be new roles, "alterations of new roles." I also fakeclaimed in Aperture 2 that my role made it so I could never be the first vote on a person. That was Grey's game, although it'd be a weird thing to take and turn into a role. | ||
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Would you like to explain your statement? What in particular was bad play? Who would you have lynched? | ||
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The fact that you popped on shortly after lynch to chastise us was just...odd. You gave no input prelynch, and then returned to judge our play and lynch. Being frustrated with a mislynch is fine, but it's the swing from no input to commenting harshly that interested me. There's not a tremendous amount of reason I voted kenpachi, I assume the case is the same for many others. Don't want to lynch clarity, whatever he may be. I know that 4 of the people on this side are town between myself and my objection. There's the chance we sent you two scum, but I'd still prefer lynching to mislynching. Don't want to lynch marv D1. Everyone else <3s them some randombum. So it's dieno and Kenpachi. II think for the most part we lynched Kenpachi for policy or pseudo-policy reasons, he's not usually someone you have a scumread on, he's just around late when someone has to be scum and nobody knows what he is. Between dealing with that now and later, I know personally I prefer now. And dieno is...something. I don't find him full-on scummy, I just find whatever he's doing really odd. We'll deal with that over the next 96 hours. There's a better chance that if we don't lynch him today, we can read him before next lynch. With kenpachi, we're not reading him this lynch or any other (as far as I know). It'd be helpful if you got some more thoughts into the thread. From what I remember of Aperture, rift destabilization was something that a third party was seeking (I think 3P? may have been scum though). Grey certainly changed up some roles and some alignments, and he does love giant warnings that don't actually do anything, but there's not really much in the thread from you to read you off of, besides an ability that we can't be sure about. | ||
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On December 14 2012 23:08 marvellosity wrote: *whistles* ##Interdimensional Rift *coughs* You might want to get that cough checked. | ||
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At the very least, is this something that swaps people or no? | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:36 marvellosity wrote: well, what do you think it is? The sad thing is that I'll play that game. A one-way swap, possibly at random. A lot of normal-y actions don't need to be popped in thread, so...either just you dicking around or something large, like a swap. All the other swap mechanics (bar Palmar) have been typed in thread. | ||
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On December 15 2012 00:43 marvellosity wrote: It's a genuine mechanic. I am not aware, however, of the precise details of how it functions. Nor am I aware, in fact, of even the broadest general idea of how it functions. Well, now you're just trying to punish me for not adding you to my objection list. | ||
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On December 15 2012 01:14 marvellosity wrote: You could say I objected to it. *sunglasses* I believe the british legal version is /wig | ||
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I've used my role from iGrok, would like to get back there and then swapped over here to see if I can still be non-VT useful. But that also takes an extra swap compared to someone else, which is one reason that I think it would be better for clarity to swap me if he's got more swap mojo. I'm not sure how much we can plan ahead for the swap though, given that we've already had some roles that do Stuff, and I'm assuming tonight will yield More Stuff. | ||
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On December 15 2012 05:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Nah austin, the "super swap" changed "home" of each of your abilities or characters or whatever it is you guys have. So if we swap you you'll switch to the thing you want. Oh, interesting. Then I'm extra-down to swap if that's the case. We were told that we had swapped and our role swapped with us, but I didn't interpret that as changing both sides around. | ||
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On December 15 2012 06:06 Clarity_nl wrote: We? Who's we? I assume that both Keirathi and I got the same pm. | ||
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It both backs up my claim without flipping me AND gives us a second instance of the objection. Could use it to DT check a single player, or to try and target a swath either to check them as town or just narrow down anti-town within a bunch. | ||
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On December 15 2012 06:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Why do you feel like a bigger target, compared to if you stayed in iGrok? I feel like I would be a bigger target IF Hassybaby can actually copy someone. If he copies me, he can both confirm that I am what I say I am, which would mean my objection was legit. He both confirms my objection targets and my role, basically, if he is legit. Also puts a target on himself, since he can do stuff in the future, but I kind of wish this had been a "Surprise, I can copy someone and did the following..." rather than now being a target or being roleblockable or anything like that. | ||
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On December 15 2012 06:56 Hassybaby wrote: Bigger target on my back compared to yours tbh austin. Ya. Realized that as I was typing. I wouldn't say too much more about your role tbh, although it may already be out here. | ||
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On December 15 2012 06:59 Hassybaby wrote: Had to be full disclosure or nothing. I had to tell you guys about Lucy, otherwise the swap may not have happened. That already put a big target on my back. No point in backing down now. Better to get input and make a better decision So ... I'm partially confused about the swapping. You had to be swapped to activate, but are you Lucy full-time now? Or only in this world? If you can only copy someone in the opposite world and only while being in this one, and my home world has been changed, then the only way you can copy me is for clarity to super swap one of us. | ||
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It's worth bringing up Sandro's reads because we're not in a game with a single strong townie. The strong townie N1 kill argument just isn't as strong here because there are a number to choose from. However, I think there are two considerations: (1) Sandroba had not revealed his power, so scum may not be afraid of say, Palmar's power (2) Sandroba was in today's lynch-world. Gives mafia more control over the lynch to kill a townie on your side than on ours I don't think we can assume Sandro was killed 100% because of reads, but it's A reason to kill him, among others. | ||
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we did have a shot claimed in addition to the mafia KP though, didn't result in a kill. | ||
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Off the top of my head, a couple things I'm concerned about or interest in:
I haven't seen a ton of desire to get swapped from our world, so I'm still volunteering. Either hassy or I is fine with me, I'm still reading him as town and hoping he's town (scum Yu-Gi-Oh would be frightening, with all the various crap that role can probably do /// the paranoid possibility that he's actually just a copy-cat and the gemini role is made up with him just taking the first dead dude's role). Disregard the paranoid stuff for now, I think he's town, but most of us seem to be phoning it in for days of this game, or less concerned with the game as a whole than whatever vote is going on in our own world, and it's worth getting everyone THINKING about less-noticed facets of this game. | ||
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It's not relevant to your world's lynch today, I know, but I'm interested in what you're thinking about him. | ||
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Apart from BH accusing you of being scum, do you find his play scummy? | ||
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Clarity said his is a super swap, but he only swapped one of you. I didn't know if your/risen's swaps are super or not, it might have been that Clarity super swapped risen and you got regular swapped due to the interaction with risen. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
SPECULATE ME! Marv as third party? Can't play normal town game because scum will NK him within a couple cycles most likely. But not terribly invested in scumhunting towards a wincon OR in actively dicking with things as scum. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
For now, from what we've seen, it LOOKS like all swap abilities super swap, so they can be used to move people around worlds but not flip alternate roles. As of now, only the voted-for swap appears to change someone's role. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The problem with a lot of your reads are that they are summaries of what someone has done, or who has mentioned someone, but no actual read on the person. There's an end step missing where you give more full thoughts and how you arrive at a read. Your Keirathi read: So what can be gained from taking a step back and looking at Keirathi's play thus far? Well it looks rather hectic and somewhat sheepish, jumping on whoever seems to be gathering the most hate. His disgust for me is... confusing, to say the least. Heck we were even on opposite worlds when he did most of his shit talking. Does this make Keirathi a scumball? IDK, Probably not. From what I can discern, his play so far matches his towny play in CT. So where, then, does his hate spring from? I suppose it all bubbles forth from a source, and that source is the person of my second investigation... You don't know, probably not scum. Play matches towny play in chrono trigger. Then later you note again that you don't think he's scum.Your BH read: His whole base for attack against me is paltry at best. It includes meta reads on a guy with 1 game under his belt with whom he hasn't even played with, and an overly zealous critique about how I mishandled our day 1 debacle. At least Keirathi was town with me in CT and has a frame of reference to base his (however misguided) suspicions on. That being said, I do not think Blazinghand is absolutely mafia. Other than a slight distrust from Sandroba, his maps indicate a fairly town reputation with the rest of you. Personally, I'd give him 50/50 at best, but for now I think there are bigger fish to fry. His attack on you is no good, but you don't think he's absolutely mafia, 50/50 at best.Your Mementoss read: I wanted this to be longer and more incriminating, but sadly it just isn't. He only has two pages of filter, and his discussion so far feels like it comes from a fairly towny place. He also has a believable excuse for not being here right now. I couldn't find anything that explicitly screams SCUM! to me. Unless someone can make a better case, (maybe Risen will step up?) I will be changing my vote once I find a better pick. Townie (But you like Crossfire's post/vote on Mementoss...except after he makes that and you comment on liking that, you unvote Mementoss and vote BH)Your Yamato read: Overall, I'd say Yamato is an obvious newb with a temper problem. I feel like he is probably trying to help out the town, but the way he is going about it is totally fishy and counter-productive. I do not think he should be our lynch today. Newb, townie, temper problemYour BH read (where your vote is): It's clear to me that BH needs to be at the top of our scumdars. His fervor and passion about my scummyness is so extreme that I can't help but feel more sure about BH flipping scum than Mementoss. That being said, I'm going to change my vote. You don't like how hard BH is trying to lynch you. But...why does that make BH scum? You changed your vote a guy without any real reasoning as to why YOU think that HE is SCUM. This is one reason people find you scummy, and why you ARE scummy. Your giant summaries of people's posts end in town, town, town, 50/50 scum for what seems to be no reason than the 50/50 person finds you scummy. You change your vote from Mementoss, who you thought was town, but then liked Crossfire's accusatory post on, to BH, who you seem to be suspicious of solely because he's accusing you. You may have put time and energy into your reads, and that's appreciated, but...you make it sound like giving reads is town pulling your teeth. As your summaries of your reads look, you don't have a scumread on anyone for any reason other than them thinking you're scum. There's a disconnect somewhere, because you seem to be thinking about things as you present a rundown of someone's posts. Like...you note that Yamato's reads are constantly shifting, but what does that tell you? You don't draw any kind of conclusion from the fact that he's changing his mind so much, that his targets are shifting, or at least we can't see where you go from "This is what someone has done" to "This is my conclusion about that person." You just kind of summarize each person's posting and just give this summary read of yours as to whether they're town or scum, and we can't get a feel for WHY must of the time. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Clarity_nl Crossfire99 Dienosore Foolishness Keirathi Marvellosity Palmar randombum SlOosh austinmcc Blazinghand Clarity_nl Darkfirex5 Hassybaby Mementoss Risen Yamato77 + Show Spoiler + Clarity_nl Crossfire99 Dienosore Foolishness Keirathi Marvellosity Palmar randombum SlOosh austinmcc Blazinghand Clarity_nl Darkfirex5 Hassybaby Mementoss Risen Yamato77 | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 13 2012 16:05 randombum wrote: Honestly, at the moment you for screwing things up. What did you mean by this statement to clarity? (This was from D1, when he swapped Keirathi and I) | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 06:17 slOosh wrote: Also, where the heck is darkfirex5 in all of this? Same place as he's been for much of the game. See paranoia about rift destabilization as a non-town role, and us just letting him slide entirely because he has to wait some unknown period of time to DT-check someone. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 06:36 randombum wrote: That was more of a knee-jerk reaction. I saw foolishness getting swapped over as bad and wanted to blame the person I saw responsible. Don't make much of it. Why was it bad, and what are your current thoughts on Foolishness? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Can you explain your read on mementoss? You read him as town, then as scum based on some points that Clarity made, but then unvoted him to vote BH. WHY is mementoss scum? What has he done that was scummy, that made you think he was scum? When you looked him over, you appeared to find him townie. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You originally voted Mementoss because Risen was voting him and Risen supported you When you read Mementoss's filter, you found him townie, and wanted to swap vote You liked Clarity's points calling Mementoss scummy You unvoted Mementoss to vote BH You revote Mementoss because he's scum WHY is he scum. You've never found him scummy yourself. You're voting, and you need to be getting votes off yourself, but the only read that you, yourself, have had on Mementoss is that he was town. That's never going to get anyone to vote mementoss, AND it's clearly not making yourself look good. If you want anyone to move their votes, or you want anyone ELSE to try and move votes off of you, then at the very least can you just explain why you think Mementoss is scum? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Is dienosore's vote/read that much scummier to you than darkfire's vote/read(s?)? Mementoss, I'm not entirely sure about you. Clarity's point about your read on me is interesting, I could see scum floundering when I first objected and being worried about things, then realizing they may not actually want to kill me and confirm folks. Your reaction, that I was townie and continued to be townie, but that people should be questioning me was...hmmm, it doesn't quite match up with how I feel like I would handle being in your position if you were townie, as a person paranoid about near-everything. That said, the rest of your filter is sort of...neutral. I'd be interested in your read on Foolishness, which you were waiting for D2 action to shore up. Beyond that, I'm not going to start tunneling you here but there's a distinct lack of impact from you on the game. In the case of THIS game though, that's not so incriminating because EVERYONE is sitting back and not having an impact on the game. Because of all the noise from others, it's difficult to fault anyone for that and so it's difficult to read people in that group. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Who did you protect N1, and why? If you shouldn't be lynched today, who should, and why? Okay, you responded to some extent. But you've got to understand here that ... some of the information you think exonerates you, makes you seem townie, is information that we simply don't have. Nobody can know whether you protected foolishness or not, because you didn't say anything about who you protected N1 and why. I do want to know why you think Mementoss is scummy, and what you just said IS a reason. But it comes AFTER you voted him, unvoted, voted again, so it couldn't have been why you found Mementoss scummy before. I'm here for the rest of the cycle, on and off, and I'm more than willing to try and fight is mislynch if that's what's up, but you've got to work with the thread here. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Knock if off with the woe is me. If you don't want to get lynched, work with people. If nothing else, if you're town, get your thoughts into the thread because it's difficult to do anything with your posts currently even if you flip town. What's the single scummiest thing about mementoss to you? What's the single scummiest thing about BH to you? If possible, something other than the fact they're voting for you. What's the single scummiest thing about Foolishness? You said he dodged the noose, and that Mementoss was trying to blame his "escape" on you, but WHY is Foolishnesss scum? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I know you seem to think they're scum, but tell us why. Give us something to work with. We can use some of sandroba's reads because he explained where there were coming from. Why are those three scum? What leads you to that conclusion? Especially if it's something that other people aren't considering, aren't seeing (except the fact that they're voting for you, don't rely on that). If you've got an angle behind your reads that others don't, that's pretty helpful, and we could use it. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:10 marvellosity wrote: hi, where's the playerlist for this world right now? please save shouting at me for having no idea what's going on until another time On page 1, except swap dienosore and crossfire to their world, risen to ours. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: Oh wait, we're swapping, aren't we? tell me what's going on austin, what do i need to be looking at and why We're swapping. Day started with mystery votes on hassybaby and dienosore. Nobody claimed. Grey says they're supposed to be there. SCANDALOUS Since then, I've volunteered to be swapped, since I've used my role. Everyone that has voted has voted for me, hassy is the only other person that has expressed a desire to go over (start faux-Yu-Gi-Oh rolling) but it looks like I'm the swap for today. That is, IF you and randombum don't afk all day and vote. Our world did not have a particularly complex vote today. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:14 randombum wrote: Oh shit voting. Vote after deadline or just not vote? Deadline is in 46 minutes. Everyone has voted me except you and marv, who haven't voted. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
IT IS NICE TO SEE YOU. STAY AWHILE, AND | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:16 Hassybaby wrote: Good time to come back then. Yeah, I'm totally cool with voting austin still. Are there enough votes for him to go over? If marv and randombum vote, then yes. If not, then no (assuming the mystery votes are still on you and follow the first-to-a-tie-wins rule). | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Is darkfire happily hurting town, or unhappily? (What is your read on him) | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
dieno started with 1, hassy with 7. But it would be <3worthy if we could get an official votecount according to the rules of this game. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:20 marvellosity wrote: austin, you have my attention until I have to go washing up. Do you wish to discuss anything with me? Shoes and ships and ceiling wax. Nothing is imminently pressing. I'd like to hear your thoughts on Foolishness, given his last large post. Still scum? In terms of less visible dudes, would be interested in thoughts on darkfire, and perhaps randombum. We have a lot of people just kind of sliding around under the radar, and darkfire's also activated he destabilization hoobajoob. I think beyond reads, I'm interested in how you've been playing this game. Perhaps real life obligations, but you've been relatively quiet and uninvolved. You perked up with Foolishness at the start, and when trying to lynch me yesterday, but otherwise have just been ... here. PORQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE?!!?!?!?!?!?! | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Throw away the cases. Stop reading the posts that are just poking at you. Just answer these if you can. What's the single scummiest thing about mementoss to you? What's the single scummiest thing about BH to you? If possible, something other than the fact they're voting for you. What's the single scummiest thing about Foolishness? You said he dodged the noose, and that Mementoss was trying to blame his "escape" on you, but WHY is Foolishnesss scum? Getting mislynched blows, but if you can give us answers to the questions above, it's helpful to town. Even if you think every townie in the game is being an idiot, if YOU'RE a townie then do what you can to help them, especially given that if everyone's being an idiot then we're going to need help. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:30 marvellosity wrote: Pretty sure the only thing I *have* mentioned in the last 48 hours is my thoughts about that Foolishness post. Come now dear ^_^ RL is horrendously busy atm, but don't not-lynch me or whatever because of that. My colouring of Foolish in red up there should indicate how I'm currently feeling about his last large post. I did talk briefly about the reads within somewhere as well. You mentioned your thoughts, but they were: On December 16 2012 08:08 marvellosity wrote: I have no particular opinion right now, and I'm not sure what to make of Foolishness' reads. They seem 'easy', although easy doesn't have to mean untrue. I know my alignment and I still think randombum is town. From what I know of yamato's play, he's a paranoid ranty towny anyway, while Risen I know least about (Apart from him coloring Palmar red). Your thoughts were that you had no opinion right then and weren't sure what to make of his reads. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 08:43 randombum wrote: Mainly I think foolishness is mafia because of the way he just stopped talking after he thought he was the lynch target and he didn't come back until a long time later, and then when he does get back he paints a target (badly) on me with a lot of mis-information stating things outright contrary to what has been in the thread as if he didn't really read it. I can see how a town or mafia can stop responding in the thread if they thought they were dead, but I feel like a town would catch up and get his information correct before claiming so positively somebody is mafia. Why was it "bad" that he got swapped to the other world? On December 17 2012 06:36 randombum wrote: That was more of a knee-jerk reaction. I saw foolishness getting swapped over as bad and wanted to blame the person I saw responsible. Don't make much of it. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Do you currently think mementoss is TOWN? You keep asking for cases and commenting on people calling him scum, but you just sort of...do that. Repeatedly. Apart from disagreeing with Keirathi about Mementoss going after low-hanging fruit, you haven't really given any kind of read on Mementoss while being tremendously focused on him. Feels out of place to be so focused on various suspicions of mementoss. Also, how would one provide proof that mementoss is scum, short of flipping him? What exactly are you asking people to say? | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On December 17 2012 12:19 slOosh wrote: darkfire could you clearly explain what your ability is doing and when it will trigger? I would imagine Bad Stuff and Already. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Maaaaaaaaaaaan, PW should totally see through glados. On December 30 2012 10:12 GreYMisT wrote: I think I liked the idea of the setup, but I disliked how much it messed with itself. I actually don't feel like we got a good handle on the setup itself, because of how much extra stuff was going on - superswaps, x being swapped if y swaps, swapstopper, extra votes, etc. There really wasn't a full day that played out according to the setup for a while.Also I was talking with foolishness and we might use this same type of game again but with normal roles and more people. We had some ideas in mind regarding some improvements that can be made but I would love to hear your thoughts on things that would have made this setup better. My only thought right now is to have each day be both a swap and a lynch vote. This of course will only work with more people. A larger game might make it easier to enforce a no cross-talk rule also. With a smaller game, sometimes the only activity was cross-world chatter, and it was difficult/boring to just talk within your own world at the time when nobody else was talking. | ||
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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