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While we are all giving out possible cases. A few points have been covered so far, but I believe we should put all of our options on the table, and I would like to do this before someone else does so and make me look like a bandwagoner.
A case against Orangeremi.
Someone I would like to make a case against is Orangeremi, who has not made a significant enough contribution to the town to be completely innocent, and their lack of participation of making real discussion has made me very skeptical about their town/scum status. Besides 1-2 posts, the rest have not been very thought-provoking, and have been mostly one-liners and stuff that does not advance the discussion forward. This is a very safe strategy to not attract attention, a strategy which would benefit a scum very much.
On December 20 2012 06:26 Orangeremi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 23:21 cakepie wrote:
Q: Pick and make a case against someone.
I don't feel obligated to respond to this question. I've found very little evidence to incriminate any player and deem it foolish to attempt a case towards anyone I'm entirely unsure of. Maybe I'll come across something before Day's end, but until then I'm inclined not to answer.
While I would like to say that his/her intentions were good, they have waited too long to come forward with any names. This implies that either they have not seen anything from anyone that has looked suspicious (which I highly doubt, as other people have said suspicious things), or he is afraid to come forward with any accusations because that would put them in the spotlight. From my earlier post:
On December 22 2012 00:25 cDgCorazon wrote:
They [scum] are afraid to call people out (a mistake I have made that might have made you all think I was scum, but I already have 2-3 people I would like to question once the Day cycle starts again) in fear of being called out themselves.
Orangeremi’s only hint of who he feels as suspicious has come in the way of this post:
On December 20 2012 10:23 Orangeremi wrote:
At this point I'm entirely uncommitted.
Of all players nominated for lynching, FatChunk, Threesr, and cDgCorazon are the ones I'm considering.
Otherwise, I have a slight suspicion of Sylencia that is based solely on a hunch and little to no evidence.
They named 4 people who they are slightly suspicious of, but put no reason behind any of his suspicions. This is a scummy action because they simply did not have a good reason for suspecting those 4 people to be scum. A big scum tell is just accusing people without giving any arguments, or arguments that do not make any logical sense. It is almost hoping that the town agrees so the scum’s lynch target(s) can go down, without making any effort whatsoever. Since Orangeremi has not given arguments for why Threesr, Fatchunk, and Sylencia (they have given an argument for me) are scum, we should assume for now that he/she does not have an argument for them. Not only is that a weak accusation, but a scummy accusation as well.
I feel like OJR (which is what I’m calling he/she from now on, much easier to write) needs to step up his scum-hunting efforts in order to clear suspicion from myself. OJR has all the room to defend themselves, but until OJR picks it up, I am very suspicious of them.
I also wish that if you guys vote for OJR later, you should have a good reason for doing it as well. I'm not too fond of bandwagoners.
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On December 22 2012 09:24 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 09:12 cDgCorazon wrote:On December 22 2012 09:03 Chromatically wrote:
##Vote: OmniEulogy
Well, let's hear it. Trying to distance yourself from Omni? Why are you in such a panic to do so? Trying to distance myself...? I wrote a giant case against him...
Mocsta just wrote a good case putting you two as scum buddies. Since Omni is very suspicious right now, and multiple people have doubted his role as town, the best thing for you to do would be to vote against him to try and prove you are not scum? You're trying to just disassociate from him without making too much of a fuss about it.
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However, I believe Mocsta did not see your post when he wrote his "last will". I wonder why that is so. However, I still believe you should try to refute his arguments because it just seems suspicious that you refute him after he persecuted Spag and Spag flipped town, instead of poking holes in his arguments before.
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On December 22 2012 09:36 Chromatically wrote:
Apart from the supposed association with Omni, he accuses me of bandwagoning you (Corazon), except I actually wrote the original case. Pushing scumreads =/= bandwagoning.
Actually, Aqua was the first one to write the original case against me. You basically just echoed everything he had said. It does not matter if you thought of the idea first, he got to it first. Saying "Aqua beat me to the punch" is a pretty easy way out if I would have been lynched and flipped town, but also a good way to have a more solid town reading to others because "you thought about it first".
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Am I wrong in observing that the possibility of having an SK is very slim because there was only 1 kill last night? Unless the SK got roleblocked (which could be a possibility), I doubt the mafia would choose not to kill, which means that the SK was either roleblocked, doesn't exist, or is AFK (a possibility, but very unlikely as well)
Now, if SK was roleblocked, then would we have a reason to suspect cakepie as being SK?
I am not saying cakepie is SK, and this is all very circumstantial, but it is something that we should take a look at over the next few days, especially if there are two kills the next night.
If anyone else got roleblocked, could they speak up?
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On December 22 2012 10:57 Chromatically wrote:
Can everyone read my case and say why they (don't) agree with it? Especially the slip part, I can't see a single town explanation for that.
If you're not voting for OE, you should have a very good explanation why.
I would like to wait for OE to respond to your arguments before voting for him. My vote/non-vote for him all depends on his response.
Let's not be too hasty here, we have 44 hours to make a decision. Plenty of time for someone else to make a good case for/against OE, and cases against other players.
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You still have not answered any of my accusations Orangeremi. Care to do so?
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Is there anyone you think is suspicious besides OE?
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On December 22 2012 13:26 Orangeremi wrote:
I don't like how Threesr is playing if he's town. He's helping very little and I could see him playing a reverse psychological scum the way he is acting.
I've got my eye on FC, but want to hold off on further judgements until I see him post this Day
I'm also waiting on more from Kickstart, I'm wary of how he's playing this game as opposed to his last one.
Could you go into a bit more depth? Any posts that indicate these behaviors to you?
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Well, I think Mocsta's attack on you basically came down to this:
Mocsta:
I am hoping the links between cakepie, and definite mafia (OmniEulogy & Chromatically) is enough to seal the deal.
In the end, he has another 5 or 6 posts. Most of it is junk. Says a bunch of crap about his night philosphy posting. which conveniently promotes no activity, so town start day 2 with no knowledge. Again why I am posting this huge text.
Basically, he is stating that many of your posts have been fluff, you have only handed out questions to players, and have come under little fire, even when your posts have not had the biggest reason. That and the fact that you have sheeped off of the other two proposed Mafia members what Mocsta has put forward
How do you feel about it? That is what I would like to hear from you. Then I can make a judgement call on how right I believe Mocsta is. Right now, it seems like the two scum that Mocsta proposed have all tried to disassociate themselves from each other. Are you standing by how you jumped on the Spag lynch train? Or are you thinking on your own?
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On December 22 2012 08:48 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +cakepieOn December 20 2012 23:54 Chromatically wrote:
If y'all won't go for FatChunk, though, I'm willing to go for Spag.
Let's do this thing for reals. (1) He directly quotes Chromatically as his justifcaition. Why so much trust.. never presented him questions.. I think its cos they are working together, just like with Omni. Then what is this lets do this thing for real? You could say its a rally to townies.. but.. the way that is expressed is to different to the typical cakepie style.
This is the most interesting point that Mocsta's case that I feel you need to address. He is linking you with Chro/Omni, and is basically saying that because you were willing to follow both of them on the Spag lynch train, that Chro/Omni directed the other two mafia to jump on the Chro lynch train, and that is what you did. This is what Mocsta has accused you of, and now I feel like you need to address these accusations. Were you sheeping on your vote for Spag just because the FC lynch train never took off, or were you sheeping because another scum told you so?
In other words, explain your vote for Spag.
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On December 22 2012 15:44 cakepie wrote:In this post: I skip over Aquanim, Chromatically, OmniEulogy and Spaghetticus because they were already actively posting and I did not feel I needed to prompt or pressure them, nor check anything in particular. As long as their filter continued growing at the same rate, I should have something to work with. Later on, I had a slight town read on Chromatically and was happy to let him continue engaging and prompting everyone, pressing Corazon, and later on, FatChunk. As for OmniEulogy, he remained in null+/- territory for me until fairly late, and by then I was more focused on narrowing down lynch candidates than figuring out new leads.
Now that Day 1 has passed, how would you reevaluate OE and Chrom?
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This is not a post to defend OE or to try to get you guys to not lynch him, this is a post about increasing pressure on Orangeremi. His answers to my accusations have been ungraceful, indifferent, and incomplete. Let us take a look at all of the posts he has made since I have made accusations against him.
(Original Accusation post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=38#744)
When I wrote my post accusing OJR, I finished with these words:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 22 2012 09:15 cDgCorazon wrote:
I feel like OJR (which is what I’m calling he/she from now on, much easier to write) needs to step up his scum-hunting efforts in order to clear suspicion from myself. OJR has all the room to defend themselves, but until OJR picks it up, I am very suspicious of them.
Now, I was expecting OJR to defend himself from my attacks, prove to me that he was not hiding anything. + Show Spoiler +(Which Cakepie has done an excellent job of so far)
However, I am disappointed with the lack of a reaction by OJR so far.
1st Post After My Accusation:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 22 2012 12:30 Orangeremi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 06:49 Aquanim wrote:
@Orangeremi: What did you think of Spaghetticus' defence to my case? I wasn't swayed either way by it. Your case was a tough one to argue and he tried. I don't feel like he succeeded. When he answered my question about his defense it seemed to me even fluffier as well. At this point I think it's fairly obvious, unfortunately I woke up too late to detail a case myself. Most everything that could've been said about him has been. It will take a fair deal of convincing for me to change my mind before Day's end. ##Vote: OmniEulogy Did not even bother to read my post accusing him before immediately answering. Made a half-answer about how Spag was making a bunch of fluff, and that Spag’s case was not good enough to change OJR’s mind (which is fair enough). However, he also just gives his case that he had no other good reasons to vote Spag, saying that Aqua literally picked Spag apart so much that there was nothing else he could say. It could be true, or could he just be bandwagoning or sheeping to try and keep attention away from him. It’s a scummy play, and he needs to justify his vote for Spag, who claimed and flipped VT.
2nd&3rd Posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 22 2012 12:59 Orangeremi wrote:
Is there anything in specific you're looking for? All of your claims are valid, and you just asked me to step up my scum hunting. Not even trying to defend himself, just saying that I am right. Very suspicious play, but it’s hard to get anything from that. His third post is the most scummy post: On December 22 2012 13:26 Orangeremi wrote:
I don't like how Threesr is playing if he's town. He's helping very little and I could see him playing a reverse psychological scum the way he is acting.
I've got my eye on FC, but want to hold off on further judgements until I see him post this Day
I'm also waiting on more from Kickstart, I'm wary of how he's playing this game as opposed to his last one. His three reads are Threesr, FC, and Kickstart: All easy targets that have come under fire in Day 1 and during Night 1. His arguments are basic for all three, and are arguments that others have come up with (Threesr is playing suspicious, FC is playing suspicious, Kick has been lurking). Not only are these arguments brief and weak, but they are not even his. An explanation for this is that he is scum, and he is not able to make fabricated lies. This lack of effort in scumhunting is ridiculously suspicious, and his lack in any discussion at all in the past 24 hours is disturbing and suspicious as well.
4th Post:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 22 2012 14:01 Orangeremi wrote:
@cake I'm interested in his theory regarding you+OE+Chrom scum team, but I don't know how much credibility it has. This post is just a joke. I already asked Cake about the Cake/OE/Chrom scum team, and he had handled his answer with much grace. This is pressing someone else’s idea, not creating his own. This is textbook scum play, jumping on other’s idea without creating original content.
Conclusion:
OJR’s lack of response to my accusations, his weak reads on easy targets, his unoriginal accusations and his inability to answer simple accusations and questions suggests that he is scum, and he needs to step up his play 200% if he wants to prove to me that he is not scum.
@OJR: Respond to my accusations. Longer than 3 sentences. Take the time to analyze my posts and make good defenses. If you’re confused, look to Cake’s self-defense for some inspiration. I’m done messing around with this.
##Vote:Orangeremi
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On December 23 2012 02:02 Orangeremi wrote:
I'd like to argue that the arguments are indeed mine, because I come to the conclusions on my own (as did other players, seeing as they're the same) although I agree they are brief and weak. In your original accusation you said that my lack of names implied either me being afraid of being put in the spotlight or I have not seen anything suspicious (which you doubted). While I'll say I don't like the spotlight, avoiding it hasn't been completely on purpose. But that isn't why. I wouldn't honestly say I don't have any suspicions, but that I don't have any convicting suspicions. That's why my 'reads' are the same as everyone else's and not in depth.
No one is asking you to pull an OE and say you are 100% sure someone is scum, you just need to explain your suspicions more in-depth, and give us reads on people who aren't easy lynch targets so far.
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On December 23 2012 02:34 OmniEulogy wrote:
##Vote: Threesr
Wonders why we have almost all called him scum.
Why are you trying to push an easy lynch when you are under fire? Threesr has been the most suspicious player this entire game. I've been asked to not even discuss him.
I think you should spend your time hunting real threats instead of trying to build a case against Threesr. Why are you so quick to try and take pressure off of yourself?
Yes, I know it seems like I am defending Threesr, but I am using the same defense that Spag gave me: Either bad town or bad mafia, we should keep him in and worry about finding real threats.
Side Note: Orangeremi, I would still like to see you build more cases against other people who are not easy targets. You're on your way to earning my un-vote but you still have some way to go. Keep it up.
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I am here. I feel like the two who should be under most pressure are Orange and Shz. I'd like to point out that Threesr has 3 ineffectual posts since Day 1 ended.
Who do you feel would be a better lynch from the first two, and why? They both kind of fall under the same category as non-scum hunters and lurkers, in my opinion.
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On December 23 2012 10:34 Chromatically wrote:
I think shz is way better. Orange is a bad lurker, but there's not a lot of inherent scummy things I see in his filter. shz on the other hand, tries to blend in while not doing anything (see case).
I think Orange might be a good lynch later, but I am not nearly as confident in that as I am in shz.
On that point, I agree with you. As of now, I do feel like the case for Shz is a lot better than my case against Orange.
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I also feel like Shz has at least answered his accusations and tried to defend himself. I still feel like Orange has been very dodgy when it comes to both accusing people and to defending himself.
I'm prepared to keep my vote on him until something else sways me.
I'm interested to see what Shz has to say, he said we would be posting soon. I'm glad he's taking the time to read the thread and catch up on things.
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Are you referring to Shz or Orange?
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Well would you rather lynch someone who puts up a solid defense, or someone who puts up no/weak defense?
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EPT
