EPTWitchcraft Mini Mafia
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DarthPunk
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On December 12 2012 13:23 kushm4sta wrote: I hate it when scum turn out to be ignored lurkers. We should lynch you d1. I've tried to lynch him day one in every game I have played in with him. | ||
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On December 14 2012 00:40 Djodref wrote: I couldn't resist the temptation  /in Here I come ! Is it OK to speculate about the setup in this game ? read the OP. it is an open setup | ||
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On December 15 2012 08:56 Hapahauli wrote: 'sup DarthAuzzie What do you make of MrZ's self-vote? meaningless. | ||
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On December 15 2012 10:55 Djodref wrote: You can only vote for one no-vote. Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ? ##Unvote ##Vote Hapa Wow your an idiot. ##Vote: Djodref. Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless. Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous. Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored. There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far. So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one. | ||
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##Vote: Djodref | ||
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I am going to vote for bad townies. Then scum will have to choose between blue sniping useless townies or killing off good players who will fuck their shit up if left alone for long enough. | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:19 Djodref wrote: 1) Because I don't want us to lose blues / obvious townies 2) I honestly think that we can scumhunt without stating our townreads 3) True, but impossible in this game 1- you are valuing blues to highly 2- That is a ridiculous proposition 3- So you were voting someone for a plan that was impossible. But you knew that. So you are essentially voting for someone for not reading the OP? Do you think town or scum are less likely to read the OP? | ||
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Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:50 Hapahauli wrote: DP is scum btw. ##Vote DarthPunk care to provide some reasoning for that vote hapa? | ||
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Source: my last three town games. and this game. | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:56 Djodref wrote: They are both as likely to read the OP. But the witchcraft votes part is more likely to be read in details by the town. It turns out that Hapa has misread the OP (his behaviors feels genuine), so my point against him was not so relevant. Weak votes in the early game are a way to get the discussion started. By the way, did you read the witchcraft votes part in the OP or not ? Did you do the same mistake as Hapa ? So you were voting for a good player based on a coinflip? Is that it? If both scum and town are just as likely to not read the op, and you vote for someone based on not reading the OP you are just randomly voting for hapa, a good town player historically, based on a 3/13 chance he is scum? My reading/ not reading the OP is irrelevant to my alignment so I don;t feel the need to talk about that with you. especially after mario and learning of your penchant as scu to force these kind of discussions. How about you talk about something other than the set-up? how about you do some scumhunting. My vote will stay where it is until that happens. | ||
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On December 15 2012 11:59 Djodref wrote: The OP was pretty straightforward imo. We cannot force a 10 VT - 3 goons setup. Stop speculating set-up now. Scumhunt or die. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:02 Hapahauli wrote: Well the problem is that DP tunneled you (Djo) without having ever even asked or cared about one of the key points he found you scummy for. DP found you initially scummy because he seemingly believed that a 10/3 setup was achievable. But as it turns out, Djo was right. And then DP turns around and completely forgets about it and tunnels him for the opposite. But on top of all this, he has one vote on him, and he's already whining... Lynch this sucker. He's scum. No. the vote wasn't for voting against your plan. It was for voting you when there was absolutely no reason for you to be scum. I didn't really care about the plan at all. It was also for being an idiot about not sharing town reads. I didn't change the reason Ivoted for him. The reason I voted him still stands regardless of the fate of your 'idea' he was voting you for absolutely no reason and was justifying it with something that was not alignment indicative. The thing I noted later was not the 'new' reason for my vote but an ADDITIONAL reason. Also whining is not alignment indicative. Which you should well know. I whined as town in Mario. Your case is a dog that needs to be put down. I actually can't see town hapa making a case this horrible. But I have seen scum hapa make shitty cases like this. ##unvote ##vote: hapa | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:07 Hapahauli wrote: @ DP Regarding your tunnel on Djo, do you actually believe he's scummy, or are you forcing yourself to tunnel him, or are you scum? I thought you said it was because I was scum? stop hedging your bets scummer number one. I am trying to figure out if djo was just being an idiot or is actually scummer number two. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote: dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons 1. start of the game and everyone is lurking 2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics He was voting for someone, based on nothing whatsoever. That is what I am accusing him for. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:16 Hapahauli wrote: Oooh this will be fun =) Let me type up the complete rendition of the case then. In the mean-time, on to your "defense" Whining itself isn't allignment indicative. Whining when there's no reason for you to do so (i.e. one vote on you) is. Secondly, your tunnel reads as incredibly forced. I'm pretty convinced at this point that Djo is townie. All his reactions have been very guenuine, even if his plan was bad. I find it inconceivable that you think Djo is scum at this point given the whole setup mechanic thing is now resolved. I don;t know if he is scum. I am trying to find out. That is why I was asking him if reading the OP was alignment indicative. And the reason I was whining with one vote is that I have been tunnelled day one in my last two town games. Your vote is one that is easily sheeped day one. And I didn't want it to happen again. Reason: It fucking sucks. But the fact is that whining happened after you were already sure I was scum. So the whole case comes down too you didn't like the way I was pushing djo. Well. La di da. Your case is still trash. I think you know that as you are alluding to making a good one. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:19 Djodref wrote: It's not a coinflip at all. I've read the witchcraft vote part in the OP carefully and I expect every town player to do so. Mafia players don't have witchcraft votes so I expect them to read this part less carefully. My thinking process is valid. Why do you think that it is not better than a random vote ? Why have you failed to read the part of the OP specifically addressed to town players ? In mario, I was speculating about the setup to avoid contributing. Here I'm trying to identify town players and scum players by checking if they had the same reactions, thoughts process that I have. For me, you couldn't reasonably come up with a 10-3 VT-goon setup idea if you were town. It is also a good way to look town to propose such ideas. And I would say that reading the OP is not alignment indicative at all. and that any vote for someone not reading the OP is either stupid or scummy. I do see where you are coming from, though I disagree. So what you are saying is that you voted for hapa based on your feelings that townies were more likely to read the part of the OP that would disprove hapas plan? Still seems an awfully weak reason to vote for hapa. Why did you vote for MR Z? | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:30 Djodref wrote: Why are you ignoring my posts ? Did you read this ? My vote wasn't a coin flip. I must admit than it wasn't a strong vote, but weak votes in the early game usually can get the discussion started and are great to help you read someone. In this regard, this post is a very scummy reaction to Hapa vote on you. Not to mention you already OMGUS vote him. ##Vote DarthPunk So you are voting for me by sheeping the weakest part of hapa's case against me? | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote: not town win condition who doesnt like playing town..... Me. Right now. Playing town sucks hard. Because I have idiots sheeping a trash case by hapa just because it was hapa who made it. And it's not playing against win con to vote for people you feel have a disruptive presence day one, especially if you think they could also be scum. It aids in creating a positive town atmosphere. | ||
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Djo: What about MrZ's self vote made you vote for him. What is scummy about self votes? You said scum are likely to do that. Do you have any links to games you have played in to backup that assertion? | ||
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Ninja'd somewhat. Ignore the parts that you have already answered. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: Why DP is Scum Strange Tunnel on Djo Two things to note about the red/bolded passage: 1) DP does everything short of sucking my dick here. He buddies me just about as hard as you can in this passage. For example, I made no claims that a 10-3 setup is "super town favored." Nor is it actually "super town favored." Yet he goes and exhalts my idea as "really really good." 2) One of DP's main reasons for suspecting Djo at this point is that Djo disagrees with my assessment on the 10-3 setup thing. Part of the implication here is that DP agrees thtaThis is odd, considering his next post. 1.) I thought your Idea was good. It is a stretch to call that sucking your dick. I thought you had a good idea and it was getting shut down unfairly. 2.) I wasn't voting djo for disagreeing with your assessment of the 10-3 thing. That is complete bullshit. I was voting him because he was voting you for no reason that I could perceive. I saw a good idea. I saw Djo voting for the person with that good Idea for no discernible reason. I could not see anything scummy in your play until that point. So I saw either town being retarded with a nonsense vote, or scum trying to off hapa with a shitty excuse. On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: Despite agreeing with my "10-3 setup" stuff earlier, DP all of a sudden is assuming that Djodref is correct in his setup theory without any clarification from the mod in the mean time. This doesn't make sense at all. How could you agree with my comments and speculation, then go and post something like this? Very simply, DP lost track of the reasons he was tunneling Djo. His tunneling doesn't have a townie thought-process behind it - he's just trying to heap as much suspicion on Djo as he can. That is bullshit also. I was discussing djo's vote of you within the context of his own assumptions in order to discover if he was scum or actually just a town throwing around nonsense votes. I did not assume it was true. I wasn't sure. What I WAS doing was humouring djo's perspective in order to facilitate both a discussion with him and to better understand his mindset. On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: This is pretty clear by his next post on the subject: This sounds so desperate to me. It's very clear by now that the argument between me and Djo is simply a misunderstanding of the OP, yet DP twists the hell out of his words and flips a shit. He unvoted you after you unvoted him. It seemed to me like he was trying to extricate himself out of a shit flinging contest with you which is scummy as shit to me. But, notice how I am still asking him to clarify his stance on reading OP being alignment indicative? That is because I was not sure and was still trying to figure him out. That is called real scum hunting. On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: Other Stuff: Firstly, DP's first post: The only purpose of this post is to stifle discussion. There's zero reason you should be so against policy talk before it even starts. That is a consistent policy of mine throughout my town games. read them. NMMXXIV for example. On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: Secondly, when I vote him - mind you I'm the ONLY person to be suspicious of him so far - he whines about it: The whining is completely disproportionate to the suspicion put on him. In addition, DP doesn't hate playing town. Fact. I hate playing town ATM. Because I have had to defend myself from the get go in my last 3 games. It is incredibly tiresome. And it is pissing me off intensely. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:51 thrawn2112 wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Darthpunk You have anything to add or are you just sheeping hapa like the DJO? | ||
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Now that Hapa put some modicum of effort into his case I can see the townie mindset behind his assumptions. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:51 thrawn2112 wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Darthpunk This is not acceptable thrawn. If you are going to vote for someone you need to make the reasons for doing so very clear. If you are just sheeping hapa. Say so. If you have some other insights, add them to the thread. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:04 Hapahauli wrote: @ DP One of the things rather offputting about your gameplay so far is your "anger." For example, you were rather peacable in the opening of Rockband Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=87209 You were asking questions to one of the newer players (drazak) and overall trying to keep a cooperative atmosphere. Here, it feels like you're tunneling Djo in the most forced manner possible. I find the "tunneling bad town" in such an aggressive manner rather hallmark of your scumplay. Nope. Bad meta read again. I can be aggressive as both alignments. it depends on the situation and the player. Djo is someone I know can crack under pressure. See: Mario Mini. Therefore I decide to pressure him really hard, because I am confident that he will crack under that pressure and I will gain some insight into his alignment and gain a really solid read either way. Also I am in a terrible mood. Seriously everyone seems to have some Idea of my scum meta but they are wrong. Marv was wrong. Blazinghand was wrong. You are wrong. The only person who really gets my meta is keir. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:10 Hapahauli wrote: Hmm IRC chat seems to corroborate that you're in a bad mood. I can also chalk up most of my case to you being rather angry as well. ##Unvote It is unfair to use IRC as info in this game. like. grievously unfair. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote: Perhaps a bit unsportsmanlke, but it's allowed in the rules. I just like ribbing BH really. LOL you should have posted a screenshot. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:21 Hapahauli wrote: Well you're not going to get an objective answer to that... It's a genuine question. I have never seen a case that poor from you as town. It set alarm bells ringing immediately. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:24 Hapahauli wrote: Well in my mind I had posted the "abridged" version. Probably a mix of laziness and that the "idea" I was pushing was rather hard to communicate in writing (involves tracking logic, assumptions, etc). hmmm. | ||
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Of course there are other things that make me think you are not scum. Like the follow up case on me. Anyway. I am confident if you are scum I can catch you later as your town play has such a high standard it is almost impossible to emulate as scum. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:33 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk Do you have any suspicion on other players than thrawn or myself so far ? what do you think my position is on you djo? | ||
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do something useful. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:40 Djodref wrote: I know your position on me, I was trying to get you talk about other players but it looks like I've been sniped. No. You don't. Because I don't. | ||
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On December 15 2012 13:51 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: in this case your position is "my vote is on you until you scumhunt" and then I unvoted you. at the moment I have no idea. But I am not sure you are scum anymore. | ||
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On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote: Why DP is Scum Strange Tunnel on Djo Two things to note about the red/bolded passage: 1) DP does everything short of sucking my dick here. He buddies me just about as hard as you can in this passage. For example, I made no claims that a 10-3 setup is "super town favored." Nor is it actually "super town favored." Yet he goes and exhalts my idea as "really really good." 2) One of DP's main reasons for suspecting Djo at this point is that Djo disagrees with my assessment on the 10-3 setup thing. Part of the implication here is that DP agrees thtaThis is odd, considering his next post. Despite agreeing with my "10-3 setup" stuff earlier, DP all of a sudden is assuming that Djodref is correct in his setup theory without any clarification from the mod in the mean time. This doesn't make sense at all. How could you agree with my comments and speculation, then go and post something like this? Very simply, DP lost track of the reasons he was tunneling Djo. His tunneling doesn't have a townie thought-process behind it - he's just trying to heap as much suspicion on Djo as he can. This is pretty clear by his next post on the subject: This sounds so desperate to me. It's very clear by now that the argument between me and Djo is simply a misunderstanding of the OP, yet DP twists the hell out of his words and flips a shit. Other Stuff: Firstly, DP's first post: The only purpose of this post is to stifle discussion. There's zero reason you should be so against policy talk before it even starts. Secondly, when I vote him - mind you I'm the ONLY person to be suspicious of him so far - he whines about it: The whining is completely disproportionate to the suspicion put on him. In addition, DP doesn't hate playing town. Fact. To this On December 15 2012 13:10 Hapahauli wrote: Hmm IRC chat seems to corroborate that you're in a bad mood. I can also chalk up most of my case to you being rather angry as well. ##Unvote With the only explanation being I was angry. I don't think hapa's points are overturned with my mood. I think they were misinterpretations/poor but I fail to see how they are all null when taken with me being in an angry mood. They were certainly overturned by my defence. But hapa doesn't;t mention that at all when unvoting. The only thing hapa mentions is believing I am, in fact, angry. | ||
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Yeah. I saw that too. But it seems to easy. | ||
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I would be ok with policy lynching him if nothing else turns up. But I have no idea if he is scum or not. | ||
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On December 15 2012 14:54 thrawn2112 wrote: lol it looks pretty similar to kush's slip in that newbie.. he called everyone in the thread a townie except for zentor. on top of that zentor is somehow his top scumread? Yeah I know. It is something to keep in mind certainly. @JieXian is the reason you are voting MrZ because he is useless? or is there something we may have missed? Do you have town reads on hapa + Djo + myself? What makes a useless player more likely to be scum than town? | ||
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Yeah. It was in response to your post at the top of the page. | ||
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##Vote: JieXian | ||
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On December 15 2012 15:42 thrawn2112 wrote: how long will we be the only people in the thread? For as long as you keep impersonating me in the secret game.  | ||
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On December 15 2012 15:43 Hapahauli wrote: Idunno. On the bright side, it does feel a lot like a townie love-boat stop that. | ||
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No I stopped playing after I voted marv off the island. So it wasn't you? | ||
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IE. anyone that isn't: Thrawn DP Hapa DJo | ||
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On December 15 2012 16:10 Hapahauli wrote: Kinda disconcerting to see kush normal crazy self. Draz also showed up bigtime with his new "aggressive" playstle... You saying they aren't lurking? | ||
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Oh dear. I am bad with that. I just want something to happen... | ||
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Town wishes to nullify that information advantage as fast as possible. One of the most effective ways of doing that is by being proactive and sharing town reads. I will be free and open with my town reads. I will be electing bad townies however. If I had a town read on HAPA he would never be elected for example. | ||
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On December 15 2012 17:54 DoYouHas wrote: You are being dumb. The mafia know who the townies are, they do not know who will be receiving votes. Townreads give information to scum that they didn't have, period. Knowing who townies are and knowing who townies think are townie are 2 very separate things. This isn't about playing in fear of the witch hunter, this is about playing smart. Giving mafia information is not smart. This is the second time you have made this kind of statement. It is as if you are treating the mafia kp and the witchhunter as the same thing. You are addressing the mafia kp, when the witch hunter is the issue. So what if you manage to elect bad townies if the mafia just shoot the good townies and silver shoot the bad ones. The point is this, we can maximize the possibility that the witch hunter misses by denying scum information that we really don't need to share anyways. Maybe we are thinking about different examples of 'free and open with town reads'. I'm thinking of lists of townies being posted like Xatalos did in paranoia, which was bad. I am not worried about the witch hunter at all. It's just a vig with drawbacks. I am more worried about regular night kills offing a good player and a blue action at the same time. In fact I want to make it as unpleasent as possible for scum because they KNOW that if they off a good player a blue action will resolve. The other thing is blues are incredibly resilient in this game. And blue sniping is less strong. As the roles will just appear the next night. So. If we elect bad townies to the blue roles. The mafia vig can never hit a good player that will threaten them with regular scum hunting. Every time they DO hit a good player with regular KP 2 or more night actions are resolving that could potentially out them. Regular KP will NEVER hit a blue because they will be offing dangerous players. The weaker players will have night actions in order to make THEM more of a threat than they would otherwise be. Also it does not prevent us from sharing our super strong town reads. Which I take issue with as information dispersal is one of the keys to town victories. I fail to see how that is not the best course of action in regards to the witchcraft elections. | ||
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On December 16 2012 01:23 kushm4sta wrote: sob story of why I've been a lurking piece of shit so far:+ Show Spoiler + thurs night into Friday I had to do an allnighter. right after I had to go to work from 1pm to 10p and it was fucking busy because some bitch died. Now I have to work today 8 to 8. Also this upcoming week I have 4 finals. QQ over * Dear dp, Can you spam less please? Love, kush * My biggest scumread so far is djodref. I'm not going to make a big case because it's mostly a feel read at this point honestly. what's really going on in this post is he is making it clear that the reason he brought up the witchcraft votes in the first place was because he thought it was something town would do, and he brought it up not because he cared but because he thought it would make him look town. The other part of my suspicion is how he reacted under pressure. in the last game I played with him he was town. There was a similar early bandwagon and he seemed like he didn't really give a shit. This game he responded to the bandwagon very attentively. Making lists and responding to everyone. His vote on hapa looked like a panic vote. * Hapa... I am concerned with this guy. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think he has a really good feel for dps meta and has caught scum dp many times. But I found his case on dp really underwhelming and reaching. And then he drops the tunnel because of something he read irc...really? * this game is full of lurkers, but I think most of them are going to get modkilled or replaced. I will vote for a lurker who is avoiding modkill, and right now this includes drazak and threesr. I don't think I am spamming kush. If clarity was in this game I would probably be called out for lurking. Also you are wrong. Hapa has never caught me as scum. and the player with a solid grasp of reading me is Kei. But Hapa's case was trash in comparison to his usual efforts as town. In that we share some concern it seems. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: Mr Cheesecake. | ||
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I am more than happy to lynch every lurker here and throw this game just to stamp out this kind of behaviour If you sign up for a game PARTICIPATE. Lynch all Lurkers. | ||
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List of shame: JieXian Morbidius Eywa threesr Mr. Cheesecake | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: EYWA | ||
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any thoughts? | ||
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On December 16 2012 20:41 thrawn2112 wrote: i still really really like it He is contributing something even if it is his own defense. I would rather sit on him for a bit and try and get a real solid read on him which would be easy if he continues to contribute as he has done. Meanwhile there are 4 lurkers doing nothing at all. | ||
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On December 16 2012 20:49 thrawn2112 wrote: the problem with that is there's nobody else among the "active" players I'd rather lynch instead. so I see a J lynch or a lurker lynch as our only options why are you having hesitations? My vote was a pressure vote. And I don't like his lynch for a couple of reasons. Firstly the initial bandwagon came up on him very easily with no resistance whatsoever which makes me think scum may have been on it. Secondly, his response to the case since he actually got in the thread seem townie enough for me to hesitate. | ||
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##vote: Drazak you keep promising things that you don;t deliver. Deliver. | ||
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##unvote ##Vote: Morbidus | ||
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On December 17 2012 04:37 thrawn2112 wrote: ugh i think morbidus is a bad lynch I disagree. Check out how scummy his omgus vote of mr z is. | ||
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On December 17 2012 04:38 kushm4sta wrote: so we are just going to assume threesr is town all game long? k ##unvote ##vote morbidus I didn;t say that. But morbidusis a scummy lurker, already has two votes and is the best counter wagon to jie right now. | ||
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On December 17 2012 04:29 Morbidius wrote: Hmm i made some light accusations against you and now you're full on calling me scum? That's quite the overeaction,which certainly doesn't help your case. I already had in mind the fact that you're either very noob town or noobish mafia. Either way a flip is worth more than you. ##unvote ##vote MrZentor The bolded part is incredibly scummy. Hedges bets, says he is a good lynch regardless of alignment. But is not policy lynching. | ||
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I didn't really feel a part of this game as I got killed so very quickly. scum had this in the bag if they just killed hapa. I don't even know how they could think keeping him alive til endgame was a good idea. Regardless, Hapa carried this on his back. GJ Hapa! Djo was pretty obvious day one and increasingly obvious later. I shouldn't have let my fear of a retarded mislynch of the back of hapa's suspicion of me sway me from my read of him early. Kush had me completely fooled. Mainly because of his meta which he is now aware of and has changed which is good to know. Don't know if it was just me but I read CC as super scummy. So that is something I need to be aware of in the future. Anyway. all in all a pretty average game. Town should thank their lucky stars that hapa rolled town and scum made a bunch of mistakes. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On January 02 2013 15:14 Keirathi wrote: I disagree completely. His meta was to be whiny/angry when he was pressured. He was never pressured enough in this game to make him become like that. Actually, I would say he adhered to his meta, just in scum QT rather than in the thread, because of Djo being pissed at him. hmmm. That actually makes sense. | ||
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