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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
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wherebugsgo
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If I ever get lynched the whole thread dies all at once | ||
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so much for that backroom deal with hiro. | ||
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I'm tired of having to assume people are dumb and leaving them alive because of it. No more rewarding of stupidity. The reward is now a lynch. Thrawn is a confirmed liar. Time to lynch him. ##vote thrawn2112 Vote wbg for mayor, I will clean up the state of TL Mafia. | ||
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Assuming you're not dumb, you're more likely to be scum based on your reactions and the fact that you chose to claim miller over what you said in a previous game I hosted. You basically said yourself in Acme that you were not sure how to read miller claims. The #1 thing scum try to do is to remain unreadable. It's an incredibly selfish play, unlike what town want to do: establish themselves as town and help to find scum. Fake claiming is the antithesis to that goal. | ||
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 Think about it though, if you actually assume he's not an idiot you see that what he did is incredibly scum-favored. Although you still have to assume he was dumb enough to miss the self aware part. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:12 marvellosity wrote: that's a pretty narrow window of dumb you got going on there who cares, he's dumb regardless of alignment. The point is that in a previous game, he claimed that millers claiming on d1 were hard to read. So, what to make of him claiming miller d1? He wants to be hard to read. The policy lynch is killing him over lying, the actual part that makes the lynch good is the fact that he clearly wants to be unreadable. | ||
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 sadly it means that if we want to win we can't reward this fucker with a lynch. | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah, but there's a difference between the original intentions of what I did and what comes out of it no one knows your original intentions because you made a stupid play and then refused to explain it (I'm going to presume out of embarrassment, since anything else is just pathetic) Adam, thoughts on debears? | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:42 thrawn2112 wrote: for someone who thinks I'm scum, you sure have some pretty descriptive words about my town motivations for someone who can't read, you prove stupider by the moment. | ||
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I've concluded from the current events that there's an 80% preliminary chance that Palmar is scum. Therefore I'm voting him, at least until he comes back and proves me otherwise. ##unvote ##vote Palmar | ||
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On December 10 2012 12:51 marvellosity wrote: bugs... bugs. you know i hate dangly things and that random 80% is so fucking dangly. I like jay for scum and also clarity's last post on jay. What do you think? I just realized my vote on Palmar is not going to do anything for a while since he's Euro :p | ||
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On December 10 2012 15:46 Djodref wrote: @ WBG You have to explain us how you came with this "80% preliminary chance" for a scum Palmar. He has only one post in his filter ("/in") and we have yet to see him come in the thread rather than to see him "come back". Name someone you find scummy this game. Can't? Okay. Process of elimination. | ||
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How many scum are probably in this game? What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum? Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb. | ||
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I chose Palmar because he was one of those 5, because I want to see what he says, and because on balance concerns, if the host decided to balance teams, he's most likely to be the vet on the scumteam. All of these things, again, are preliminary so they mean nothing until Palmar actually shows up. (or, for that matter, all of the other guys). I have a heuristic for determining who out of that group is most likely to be scum, but I'll wait for them to appear before doing anything. No point till then anyway. | ||
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It's basically a cop out for not doing anything for at least the first half of day 1. We know he's here. There isn't anything to read. So why the hell should he get a free 24 hours off? | ||
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On December 10 2012 23:14 marvellosity wrote: he *shouldn't*, but what you wanna do about it? do you want me to vote him for it like town killed him in Death Note? i don't see a satisfactory solution I haven't read that game, but certainly this type of play isn't what I expect from Palmar as town. In general I would use "laziness" as a one-word description of his scum play. | ||
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I don't understand this line of questioning. | ||
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On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote: Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up? this is possibly the worst attempt at discreditation I've ever seen. Firstly I said it was 80%, not 2/3, I said it should have been 2/3 when Djo pointed out there were 6 afk players and not 5. The fact that you mix the two numbers is really shady. Why do I need any further explanation than anything I've already given? I've already stated that I don't find anyone who has already posted to be scummy. That leaves 6 players with 4 scum left. Just on a preliminary basis that means any of those 6 has a 2/3 chance of being scum. On December 11 2012 01:02 Munk-E wrote: I just find it strange how he went from maybe or maybe not policy voting you,(he didn't make it clear either way, which seems like a way to cover his ass in case he made a mistake) to very heavily and arbitrarily tunneling palmer, with no evidence when he had 5 people with the exact same case against them. It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, he goes from out of nowhere accusing palmer saying he's 80% sure he's mafia, based on absolutely nothing, to when people ask him about it saying "woah, I didn't say i was certain he was scum" Then he lowers the percentage of palmer being scum, probably so if he flips town, he doesn't seem as guilty. It just seems weird to me. Try reading more carefully next time. | ||
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On December 11 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote: Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself. Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT. So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info. I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum. this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one. Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated. | ||
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On December 11 2012 04:02 Z-BosoN wrote: I don't get why you are assuming there are four scum, is this obvious due to the setup? Also, I don't understand why you chose to use the "80%" argument in wanting to go for palmar BEFORE that explanation in the quoted post, when that argument is easily applied to any of the people who hadn't posted. If not 4 scum, then what? 3 is too few, and 5 is too many. With 1 kp per night any other numbers are not very balanced unless there is some sort of blue distribution that makes other numbers likely. You don't understand the rest of it because you didn't read properly. | ||
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I'm not going to bother answering any questions that are irrelevant to the question of who is scum, since I've already adequately explained myself and anyone pursuing further lines of questioning regarding why I singled out palmar is not actively reading the thread or is seeking an easy alternative to doing real scumhunting. | ||
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I'm almost completely certain that all of the scum are being fairly passive. Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax, Bluelightz are all good leads IMO. I would have said Zbo earlier, but I have my doubts now given how he posted later (though he didn't improve by much, it was enough). I'm gonna get on my computer in a minute so that I can actually quote stuff I found noteworthy. | ||
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Vivax is not scummy. He's too confrontational and he's actually posting more town-like than my initial impression of him. He also makes accurate observations and follows up on them, something scum often don't do. Ex: On December 11 2012 02:50 Vivax wrote: My analysis is the end of that post. Thrawn acts as if he had some kind of plan behind his actions, and VE defending him doesn't take that into consideration, but thinks of it as a joke. Clarity, may I know why you are so disinterested in thrawns claim? You were the first to point out his mistake and never gave a fuck about it. I don't feel like I can just let this matter go. Thrawn could have talked about it as a joke, instead he acts as if he did it on purpose. He's probably just realized that he's made a big mistake, and further talking about him will harm him no matter what. Scum generally don't say so much in so little. Vivax at the very least is commenting on things in his own words, and they are clear: he does not shy away from providing an opinion (even if it may be bad, e.g. his jaybrundage case) Adam: There's one thing putting me off from Adam, and that's the fact that he pointed out thrawn's post from Acme regarding his view of millers claiming day 1. It's not as indicative of towniness as something obscure being pointed out in the defense of someone, but it is something to keep note of regardless. Otherwise, whatever. I'm going to ignore him for now since there are bigger fish to fry. Tunkeg: Every post he makes is either a useless summary or a wishy washy load of crock shit. Exhibit A: On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote: So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts: Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this. I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips. I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or? He says absolutely nothing here. At the point that he posts this, it's general consensus that thrawn is town or at the very least dumb. Thus, his entire first paragraph is just saying something for the sake of saying something. It doesn't add anything to discussion, because no one fucking asked Tunkeg if he had a town read on Thrawn. We don't need to know everyone's town reads unless they have relevance to the lynch (i.e. the guy getting lynched or being suspected is town to you) Secondly, his thoughts on jay and djo are very nebulous and not specific at all. He also has no concrete opinion and whatever he does think was clearly not original (which is bad in the sense that, if that idea passes through to fruition, i.e. a lynch, he won't take the fall for it) Now, some stuff from meta: Here's a game Tunkeg played as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724. Here are some posts he made from day 1: On May 21 2012 18:00 Tunkeg wrote: Time for some Q&A's. I don't see any questions for except rethorical ones and questions that are allready answered in my opening thread. If you do have a question for me, or want me to clarify anything, make it clear that you want me to answer it. Now for my questions: @VE What do yout hink of WBG's helpfull opening post? I ask you because you got the most experience with him. As a standard normal player I would put this as a pro-town. With WBG I am unsure, as he is thought of as one of the best scumplayers on TL, and I think he is capable of leveling us with these kinds of posts. @WBG If you were a dayvig and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why? @Acrofalis You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they? @NT What do you think about Acrofalis play thus far? @ET Not to derail your arguemnent with Acrofalis to much, but what do you get out of Zealos posts thus far? @Zealos I can see why someone would throw out a random vote on someone to pressure as number one (even if I don't think it is a great way of pressuring).You do this as number two on VE, for no reason. And next you are sheeping ET on his Acrofalis vote. Why did you vote VE? And could elaborate why you are voting Acrofalis? On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote: Reads d1 of Day1 Acrofalis/Marvellosity: Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure. EchelonTee: Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out. Zealos Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions. Mattchew He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now. Nova_Terra Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes. Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning. PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me. PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it. Note how much more proactive he is in establishing reads and pushing questions and thoughts. In this game, he's all like: On December 11 2012 08:13 Tunkeg wrote: I'd vote you over both of them, and jay over Djor if I had to vote now. But in general I think there is to little information thus far to put down any votes. The change in tone and willingness to scumhunt is incredibly apparent. Either Tunkeg has become drastically worse as a town player (doubt it) or he is scum this game. Just from memory I find these posts this game to be in contrast to how he played in Arkham City and in Mafia LI as well, where he was town. So, let's kill Tunkeg today. ##unvote ##vote Tunkeg | ||
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On December 11 2012 14:31 Djodref wrote: @ Munk-E Are you sure you are going to be more active to not get lynched. As far as I know, you only have said that WBG should be town. Could you expand on why you highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers ? I wanted to expand upon this but I'm glad someone else caught onto it as well. Note that Munk-E puts doubt on the idea that scum are lurking. Who does that benefit? Scum. It's a very subconscious and stupid thing to do (IMO) as scum, but discreditation like this happens a lot and it's hardly ever caught. I'm very suspicious of Munk-E for it, particularly as he himself is a lurker and he says that scum are likely not to be lurkers. He also undermines my ideas saying that my logic is flawed, but never expands upon why. He never explains any of his assertions, and he doesn't actually call anyone scum either. His posts are very reactive, just like Tunkeg's. I'd be fine with killing Munk-E as well today, and honestly between Tunkeg and Munk-E IMO we are almost certain to have scum. Any other lynches for now I'm not going to bother with, since there is nothing worse in the thread than what either of these players have posted. | ||
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On December 11 2012 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote: wbg, when marv first voted for tunkeg I liked his case. I agree with yours too and I could lynch tunkeg tomorrow. What are your thoughts on marv voting tunkeg and recently changing to voting adam? what the fuck, tomorrow? who are you voting on today then, Adam? I think he was convinced by the wave of people wanting to kill Adam. It happens to everyone, and it's often why I ignore people's posts before I make my own reads. (I've noticed this trend over a long period of games-if I follow my own reads I'm often closer to being correct than if I let other people influence me) | ||
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On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote: Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions? And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting? If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax ##Vote: jaybrundage I'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote: Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar. In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support. However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler + haha I just found that really funny for some reason | ||
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On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote: So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town. You WERE scumhunting in those games. You were also doing stupid shit, but that has nothing to do with it. I'm not lying at all. However you've done nothing to prove that you are town this game. You just complain about my case and yet you still have no reads. I've shown conclusively that on d1 as town you have concrete reads. This game you have none and you clearly have no intention of coming up with them any time soon. There is no evidence to suggest that you've simply decided to change your gameplay all of a sudden either, and your entire defense hinges on that point. If there is a recent game that suggests this, I am all open to read it. However, the fact that you complain in this manner is highly suggestive that you are scum. To everyone else: If you're not voting Tunkeg, Adam, or Munk-E today I want to hear why and I want to also convince you that you should move your vote. Preferably, to Tunkeg. | ||
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hehehehehehehehe | ||
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On December 11 2012 17:36 Tunkeg wrote: I am not treating you like town. I am saying you are capable of getting me lynched regardless of allignment. And imo it is your "debatish" attitude towards the game that have given you a reputation for being a strong scumplayer. Your way of misrepresenting facts and winning arguements when being wrong helps you as scum, but is not that great when you are town. Either way you are wrong here, I am town, so you are either scum deliberatly trying to misrepresent the facts, or town overeager to win the arguement and not seeing the truth. look at me, I'm tunkeg, I'm going to continue to do nothing but discredit the case! If you want to prove that you're town, find scum. Otherwise, go die. | ||
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On December 11 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote: So yeah, the more I read the more I'm convinced that this is the correct route to take. ##Vote Adam4167 Everything about his game seems slightly off, and I think it's the better lynch between him and Jay. In fact, I think my other lynch options at this point would be WBG or Djodref (who has basically disappeared). yeah I'm fine with killing Adam if Tunkeg isn't getting lynched. I'd prefer Tunkeg obviously but Adam's #2 on my list. | ||
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On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote: Well you did do dumb shit twice now a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it. b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute. So don't act all surprised. Bro I tried to kill you cause you were 80% scum. Bro. As for thrawn I'm just tired of stupid shit. Every game it's something new and stupider. Neither of these things is a reason to call me scum, so don't be surprised when I call you out on your bullshit. | ||
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I knew you'd be annoyed by that, bro On December 11 2012 19:48 Palmar wrote: It's happened before, scum have fucked up and claimed miller on day 1. To expand on this, there was once a game where a scum player claimed vigi, and then later claimed that the red check on him might be due to him being a miller. This was not possible setup-wise, yet a lot of people let him off the hook. Scum fuck up just as much as townies do, but when you do it on purpose as a townie you're just inviting chaos. I don't understand why townies keep fucking making these fake claims as "plays" when they end up being bad almost every single time. | ||
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On December 11 2012 20:54 Palmar wrote: I'll admit that I find it easier to roll with the crowd wanting to lynch adam (myself, debears, marv) than with the crowd wanting to lynch jay (djodref, bluelightz, VE etc). It's a ridiculously dangerous game trying to guess someone's alignment based on the actions of others (the people voting him), but I just like the Adam lynch a whole lot better. Did you know that if I had to guess the scum team right now I would probably shoot for this team: Bugs Djodref Adam VE But that doesn't change the fact I might be off base, and the case against Jay is a good one, so maybe that's where we need to go. But meh, this is what I want to do, I want to kill adam. first of all, no one is asking you to guess the scumteam right now, and second of all, your guesses seem pretty fucking bad. VE is at best a null for me, I'm not scum, and I'm almost certain Djo is not either. I'm surprised you don't find Tunkeg scummy. In fact, since you're so hardline against Adam and you've more or less ignored Tunkeg, I have my doubts about your alignment. It's pretty fucking shady that you don't even consider the case against Tunkeg. | ||
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On December 11 2012 21:21 Palmar wrote: Out of curiosity, if you had to guess right now, what would your guess be? not like it really matters, but probably: Tunkeg Adam Munk-E one of ZB/VE/you/BL I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know. On December 11 2012 22:09 marvellosity wrote: And also, hi bugs. How are you 'almost certain' Djo isn't scum? I don't think mafia would so openly confront someone over a play like Djo did. His tone and willingness to question and probe is really towny to me. Ex: On December 10 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote: I disagree with you, I see more town motivation than mafia motivation for fakeclaiming like that. But I would really like thrawn to explain his motivation by himself at first. He wants to find out thrawn's motivations so he votes him despite thinking that thrawn's actions were townish. I don't see many scum who are willing to put so much attention on themselves in this manner. Think about it: it opens Djo up to the "you're voting someone you have a townread on?" attack, and it's completely obvious. I'm certain scum would at the very least word their posts more carefully or not actually confront the player in such a manner at all. Secondly, when he pushes jay as a lynch, he ACTUALLY pushes it. I don't see scum doing that either. They often don't actively try to convince people to join them in killing someone. Sure, he might be good as scum, but we then have to ask why he would be so concerned with my vote and where it's going. Things like this: On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @ WBG If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ? Indicate that Djo is reading the thread and at the very least concerned about people giving half-assed reasons to vote people. I didn't really have a great reason to vote Palmar and he called me out on it. Pretty townie reaction IMO. He also doesn't let bullshit fly: On December 11 2012 12:47 Djodref wrote: @ Tunkeg You can find all my previous games on these forums in my profile. I don't like the way you are saying I'm fluffy and scummy, without really backing it up with a case or at least some quotes. You are just discrediting me for free here. If you think Djo is scum, then you have to assume he is very very good at hiding his intentions. I just don't see scum acting the way he has acted so far. He's also far too active IMO to be a day 1 lynch consideration. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:29 Palmar wrote: Not really, but I think clarity's analysis of Jay's play so far is much more likely to hit home than bugs's meta read on Tunkeg. I agree that I wish Tunkeg would play differently, but I can't really lynch everyone who doesn't play like I want them to. cool, you want to lynch probably the easiest mislynch on TL mafia over someone who clearly does not care about scumhunting. Not to mention, the strongest part of my case isn't the meta, it's the fact that Tunkeg is completely indifferent to the events of the game. | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:34 Palmar wrote: Only when presented with these two options, remember Marv's question implied I could only pick one or the other. Don't try to twist my words into something they're not. We agree that Adam is most likely scum, so let's do this? I mean marv thinks he's scum too, that's a lot of big names who think Adam is scum. What are we waiting for? I'm not twisting shit. You said you like jay over tunkeg, which is indicative that you're not reading the thread. I just don't understand how you can find jay scummier than tunkeg. It's like we're not playing the same game. Have you never played with jay before?! How do you not understand how easy of a mislynch he is? | ||
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On December 11 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote: I also don't get how he likes Jay over Tunkeg. But generally I like the pushes on both Adam (Palmar) and Tunkeg (bugs), which means something odd's going on I don't think we can necessarily credit Palmar with the push on Adam, given that everyone so far in the game has found him scummy, but I agree with you. I like both pushes but I disagree with Palmar's other reads, which almost certainly means something is off. I'm curious, though. If you had to name 4 scum right now, who would you name? | ||
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Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. | ||
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On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote: Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game) generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote: Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going?  no, I don't agree with that. Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch. | ||
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On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote: Fucked that one up Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so is what I meant to say At the very least Adam has some sort of scumread. Tunkeg doesn't even have that. | ||
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Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs.../QUOTE] This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point. No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play. Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit: [quote]Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy.[/quote] If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself. However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit. | ||
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On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote: Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs... This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point. No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play. Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit: Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy. If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself. However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit. | ||
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Standard scum play is as I described it, and it fits like 90% of players on this forum. | ||
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I have a final in an hour so I've been cramming, apologies for not being around. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:53 VisceraEyes wrote: This is your default response to any claim, a-hole. LOL I have selective memory, aka I've tried to wipe every VE claim from my mind. | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm sorry Adam, I thought you never crumbed, now you're changing your story to "why would I crumb now?!?!" Let me answer you, Adam, the earlier you make a crumb the more legitimate. He's actually right though, crumbing is fucking pointless. That's not why the claim is bad. It came 10 minutes before the lynch and he has no alternatives. | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote: Munk-E is ecstatic I reckon Something I missed? Cause I would definitely not mind killing him | ||
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On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote: Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch. ##VOTE Adam4167 This post you mean? Sounds like he figured Adam was fucked and voted him anyway. At no point does he give a real opinion on Adam lol. | ||
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On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote: This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish. Now, onto Adam. I think VE is scum too. The most significant part of this post is the last line. Note how VE never comments on Adam in his posts except to say that he'd rather vote jay than Adam. The entire time, he's trying to derail. I recall calling out one of his posts as a derail, too. In addition he votes Adam without ever commenting on him. I find that especially strange given that town VE will comment on literally anything. He also seems concerned with my interactions with marv and finds marv scummy, which is either him just being dumb or trying to discredit him. No reason to find marv scummy ATM, so why would he say that? Anyway, I was unsure of VE before but the adam connection is fairly strong IMO. | ||
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On December 12 2012 10:50 Palmar wrote: @Bugs: now that your teammate is dead, do you feel sad? Don't worry babe, my team is shooting you tonight <3 | ||
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There were two reasons I was unsure of lynching Adam and none about Tunkeg. Reason 1 for Adam was that he pointed out something about miller claims that thrawn had said in a previous game. I didn't find that very scummy but it was a fairly minor point of consideration. The other thing was relatively unrelated to adam's behavior but rather how easy it was to lynch him, particularly given Palmar's really strange comments re: his priority of reads. If Palmar really did make his video without knowing his alignment, then he would be pretty hard pressed to bus his teammate Adam if he ended up seeing he was scum after saying all that shit about his posts. That's one reason I'm wary of his other reads. If his other reads are shit, then chances are strong he's not town. And it is clearly obvious Adam was bussed, seeing as there was almost no resistance to the lynch. Everyone wanted him to die except perhaps Clarity (and I'd consider him town) | ||
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In this fantasy world, neither of us thinks the other is scum. Who is scum then? | ||
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On December 12 2012 16:39 Tunkeg wrote: There is no such scenario. To find the remaining scum one would need to connect the dots between you and Adam. This will require some rereading. So given you are scum I don't have an answer atm who the rest of the scumteam. I will not speculate in anything where I have to assume you are not scum, because it is irrellevant, as I am certain you are scum... LOL cool story bro. Even if I am scum you can't name anyone else? Jesus you're bad at this game. | ||
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On December 12 2012 16:37 jaybrundage wrote: WBG what do you think about my case on Djodref I haven't read it, but I don't think Djo is scum. I'll read it when I have time (probably some time tomorrow.) I have to go sleep/study for my exam tomorrow morning. | ||
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I could play like a retard, but no one likes when I do that. | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:01 Hapahauli wrote: "Clean" in the sense that you're not taking any risks. You're not going out of your way to comment on multiple players or make additional reads - you stick to a case on a player who looks like a lynch-bait candidate throughout D1. The reality is that I hold vets to a higher standard. Your play doesn't read like a wild and engaged townie - it looks like scum trying to blend in. If you're town, it's on you to prove it in the next few days. How have I blended in when I made probably the strongest counter case to Adam? I didn't have to do that. If I was scum and wanted to blend in I could've just bandwagoned on what was clearly the easiest lynch of the day and taken massive town cred by bussing Adam. Instead I chose to pose an alternative because I actually took a stance on someone other than Adam. Everyone found him scummy. I found someone else scummier. And, in fact, Tunkeg's play is still quite erratic. Secondly, the thing I absolutely hate about this type of jubjub logic is that it only makes sense when you don't think. Why are people attacking me? Because I was the only notable person who didn't hardline against Adam. This is confirmation bias. We saw a scum flip, and now everyone thinks that anyone who was late to the wagon or considered killing other people is scum. Sure, that's normal when there's resistance, but when there was never any resistance to begin with usually it's the people who sheep without reason who are the scum bussing. I.E. VE. I actually had concrete reasons to be voting Adam and I was one of the first players to make my opinion on him clear. The fact that I ultimately chose not to vote him is actually not scummy, because trust me, I'm pretty fucking lazy as scum. So, think about it for a second. You think I'm scum and you apparently hold me to a higher standard than other players. So, what exactly have I done that is not up to your standards? I'm not taking risks? You don't need to take risks to play town! In fact, taking risks is full on retarded as town. I don't think anyone on this forum understands how I operate as scum, seeing as everyone and their mother accuses me of wildly different things as both alignments. I'm notoriously "hard to read" because my play doesn't boil down to "lazy as scum and active as town" unlike the vast majority of other players. | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:23 thrawn2112 wrote: so you are lazy as town or is one of those statements wrong? nah I'm lazy as scum. I just don't look lazy. Just look at how hard I trolled Storm Mafia, for example. It doesn't take much effort for me to troll a game, but I post a fuckton more than as town. | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:27 Palmar wrote: Hey look guys, here's some perfect logic: Bugs didn't vote Adam, so he must be scum. I'm completely serious, I will tunnel the fuck out of him tomorrow. go for it, noob. If you're town, you really are just nothing more than a noob for thinking I'm scum. | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote: Making a case on lynch-bait isn't "sticking out" by any measure, and I have no idea why you're representing your play as such. Also, these "I would have done this as scum" arguments ring pretty hollow. So you think no one stuck out on d1 then? Adam was pretty fucking obvious lynch bait. He just happened to be scum. Being lynch bait is not alignment indicative, it's just indicative of playing like shit. On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote: People aren't attacking you because only you didn't go after Adam. You haven't been very active, and you've spent most of Day 1 tunneling lynch bait. I haven't been very active? THE FUCK? I have been far more active than probably everyone else in this game. Yet, you call ME "not very active"? LOL. On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote: Also, lazy as scum? From what I've heard, you're one of the better scum-players around these parts. Being good at something doesn't mean it takes effort. I'm not even good at scum anyway. On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote: I'm not saying that everyone should take "risks" by pulling a Thrawn and claiming miller. But townies (especially veteran townies) will stick their neck out and try to comment on a bunch of things, make reads, tunnel multiple players... etc. When I say you haven't taken any "risks", you haven't done anything but tunnel lynch-bait. Name one thing I haven't commented on this game. What have I been avoiding in discussion? Nothing you say is backed up by any evidence, it's just a load of shit. You're just saying stuff with tinted goggles and trying to fit your preconceived notion of my alignment to actual evidence. The problem is that there is no evidence ,so you're just making things up as you go along. If you're town, try setting aside your preconceived notions about my alignment. Go read my posts this game in context. Go read posts from my most recent game. | ||
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Think about it carefully. Why do you think I was so opposed to lynching jay? Why do you think I questioned Palmar's motivations when he told me reads that didn't make sense to me? (i.e. the tunkeg, jay, djo, me reads etc.) if you really think I'm avoiding commenting on things then you're probably not reading the game very carefully. | ||
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On December 12 2012 18:46 Palmar wrote: Oh shit you hurt my feelings. But are you not the noob for not supporting my case on Adam? Oh wait, you're not, because you're scum. I mean after all we can conclusively prove that I was right. keep it coming noob shit On December 11 2012 13:43 wherebugsgo wrote: Ok, caught up on the thread. Today I had a final and tomorrow I have 2, so I'm not going to be around very much. I'll try to consolidate my thoughts briefly but here's the basic summary of my initial thoughts: I'm almost completely certain that all of the scum are being fairly passive. Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax, Bluelightz are all good leads IMO. I would have said Zbo earlier, but I have my doubts now given how he posted later (though he didn't improve by much, it was enough). I'm gonna get on my computer in a minute so that I can actually quote stuff I found noteworthy. On December 11 2012 19:10 wherebugsgo wrote: yeah I'm fine with killing Adam if Tunkeg isn't getting lynched. I'd prefer Tunkeg obviously but Adam's #2 on my list. On December 11 2012 22:30 wherebugsgo wrote: not like it really matters, but probably: Tunkeg Adam Munk-E one of ZB/VE/you/BL I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know. . ![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/198/460/iwkoqt.gif?1321057725) | ||
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In case I'm not back in time: someone protect Palmar, he might be a noob but he's probably town. vigis hold your shots unless you feel like shooting Tunkeg or VE. + Show Spoiler + or, shoot me so I don't have to keep fucking around defending myself against idiots | ||
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There are at least three incredibly scummy posts that pretty much just went by completely unnoticed, or at the very least were noticed but ignored. They were made by Bluelightz, Tunkeg, and VE, all of whom I think are scum at this moment. Working backwards: On December 13 2012 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, what if Bugs is town and scum were going to shoot Bugs overnight, but in comes the cowboy!! That's a big hypothetical obviously, at this point I agree that Bugs is probably scum. But you see what I'm saying. Also, you two being all buddy buddy without me hurts my feelings. Maybe I'll just be buddy buddy with Hapa instead! HI HAPA! WELCOME TO THE GAME! I THINK YOU'RE WAAAAAAY BETTER THAN MARV AND PALMAR! AND SOOOO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE TOO! This post is basically just VE buddying to marv and Palmar, pointing out the obvious (that Hapa looks much townier than Munk-E) and then doing exactly with me what he did with Adam and some other "reads" he has mentioned throughout the game. He casually sheeps the building sentiment toward lynching me, without any sort of justification, and without any sort of prior inclination toward this idea. He has no fucking opinions of his own. Try this: ask yourself what VE has done this game. What opinions has VE had? What has he pushed? Can you summarize what he has done in this game without looking back at his posts? I think you'll find that, in general, the towniest players are those who you can describe their play in the context of the current game in a general sense without even looking at their posts. Their contributions are instantly recognizable and they are memorable because townies don't explicitly try to blend in like this. also I just got ninjaed by this: On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: jaybrundage, wherebugsgo and Bluelightz were all Adam's "probable scum" reads in his reads post. I don't believe that Adam, in a desperation act, called out three people on his team. Therefor, it is my opinion that at least one of wherebugsgo, jaybrundage and Bluelightz, probably two, are town. This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip. @Clarity Re: Bluelightz Case - Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it? To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion. This post is bullshit. Bluelightz is not playing to his town meta, but jay is! I am town. I feel strongly that jay is town. Given that Adam flipped scum, scum are in a position to preserve themselves. I would not doubt if they actively defend each other from this point onward simply to stay alive. This furthers my idea that Bluelightz + VE are scum together, but obviously that can't be shown until one of them actually flips. Certainly I think Bluelightz is more likely to be scum though, since I am notoriously bad at reading VE. However, I haven't gotten to that yet, so here we go: On December 12 2012 20:40 Bluelightz wrote: I'm fine if there's a consensus on bugs. This post is shit, and it was pointed out even by Palmar himself. I'm going to make this assertion: Bluelightz doesn't want to find scum himself and is more concerned with the momentum of town sentiment. At the moment, plenty of people want to lynch me. I am town. Bluelightz is fine with that and is not concerned with actually establishing a read on me. Why? Because he's probably scum and doesn't give a fuck because he knows I am town. Further evidence: On December 12 2012 21:26 Bluelightz wrote: Personally yes I am. His obsession with supposed chance on you seems to me like an easy reason to lynch someone. He picks the one thing in relevance to PALMAR specifically even though in the context of the thread it's almost irrelevant to my alignment. This is buddying, and pretty shitty buddying at that. The simple fact is, I would pressure Palmar regardless of alignment because I have played with Palmar a lot. I'm fairly certain Palmar himself knows this, and I'm certain Bluelightz does as well. The fact that he uses this, even though it was clear to anyone reading the thread that I was not actually going to lynch Palmar just based on some preliminary gut read, as a reason to call me scum (as THE reason, in fact) is incredibly damning. It was painfully obvious that my vote on Palmar was intended for pressure and not an ultimate lynch vote. So why construe it as different? Again, it comes back to the idea that Bluelightz is not interested in finding scum, and is not interested in establishing his own reads either. He's certainly not that stupid, as I've seen him contribute as town in the most recent games I played with him. On December 12 2012 23:15 Bluelightz wrote: Honestly it's the only piece of dirt that makes WBG suspicious to me, besides his defense of Adam ofc. If there is a solid case on him I'll be sure to read up though. Confirmation that Bluelightz is not interested in actually forming his own read on me. Notice the choice of wording: "I'll be sure to read up on a solid case if one exists." He doesn't bother to say that he's going to read up on my posts, and he's certainly not saying he's going to do any work of his own. He's saying that he might consider sheeping someone. So how is he willing to lynch me based on one thing, and one thing alone? It doesn't fucking make sense. It doesn't add up. Townies don't lynch people off singular, alignment-null tells. They lynch people when they are convinced someone is scum. Bluelightz does not seem particularly convinced that I am scum, and yet he is willing to kill me. How the fuck do you people not notice this shit? Lastly, Tunkeg: On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote: If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3? Another case of extreme buddying. Tunkeg is clearly not interested in finding scum and I made this case earlier. He doesn't have reads, he doesn't want to make reads, and he is not approaching the game with a town mindset. A townie accepts the chance that he may be wrong. Only scum and particularly arrogant players (like Palmar, and I don't believe Tunkeg is one, from what I have experienced playing with him) will say things like this. He is trying to line up lynches. So what happens tomorrow? We lynch me, and nothing else happens? no discussion? No reads? Nothing? I asked Tunkeg who would be scum if I am not. He did not answer, saying that it did not matter. I then asked him who would be scum if I am scum. He didn't answer that either. Why would a townie refuse to answer such questions? Why would a townie have 0 reads at this point in the game, given that a scum has flipped? In particular, I have NEVER seen a town tunkeg have 0 reads at this point in the game. If he is indeed town his play has reached a new level of pathetic low. For his sake and for the sake of town itself I hope that's not the case. It's far better for me to assume he is scum, since I just cannot fathom how any townie, no matter how bad, would not have anything more than one read 60+ hours into the game. (not to mention his "read" on me is nothing more than OMGUS backed up by absolutely fuck all) I'm not going to put much weight behind Tunkeg's comments on dumb people, since that can be interpreted a variety of ways depending on your predisposition toward Tunkeg's alignment. I personally found it as an overcompensation for the "aggressive townie" stereotype, but it could mean almost anything and I do not think it is particularly alignment-indicative. | ||
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On December 13 2012 03:27 Vivax wrote: But well, the more I think about my last post, the more circlejerking it becomes. Depends on how ballsy scum plays.I sure didn't defend my sucmbuddies in my last scumgame. Anyway, I found a massive scumslip by WBG: + Show Spoiler + On December 12 2012 18:33 wherebugsgo wrote: Being good at something doesn't mean it takes effort. I'm not even good at scum anyway. wut? | ||
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On December 13 2012 03:39 Vivax wrote: Shit, Buggy, you are a vet, you don't need to post this much to defend yourself.Anyway, that post was just a joke. On a more serious note, I will look at you more thoroughly when I'm back in 2 hours. Although I will add to your defense that Bluelightz' post regarding you really sucks, it's like he felt forced to give an opinion while in truth he had no fucking clue what to think about you. actually, I do, given that I think the majority of the players in this game are stupid enough to repeat what happened last game. It already seems to be happening, given that most of these very same players are willing to lynch me. | ||
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On December 13 2012 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs you right...me trying to lynch jay like all game is the same as not having an opinion of my own. Spread lies elsewhere...I won't let you do it with me. You don't even read my fucking posts when you're town because you think I'm a fucking joke so thanks for just CLAIMING scum to me. That makes things easier tomorrow for everyone. oh, you mean that massive derail I pointed out was nothing but a bunch of horseshit? Yeah, I read that. It was a nice attempt at a derail, though. I'll give you that. | ||
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Have you ever played with jay before? Why did you post this: On December 12 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote: GOD DAMNIT I FUCKING LOVE THESE READS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME ADAM?!?!?! When there was nothing special in Adam's read post? And lastly, why do you think I am scum? | ||
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I do routinely ignore you, and that's not any different this game. However, that doesn't mean I haven't been watching you play. I may be wrong about you but I think the way you've approached the game so far warrants me to stop ignoring you and actually call you out on it. Also, would you like to present evidence for your assertion that I interact with you more as scum than town? Are you conveniently forgetting LI, where I tunneled you nonstop for 48 hours? Or Magic Mini, where I called you dumb for 48 hours? Or pretty much any game other than the one or two that I played after Magic? | ||
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On December 13 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote: Sure thang, I changed my read when I caught up in the thread. In particular, I hadn't read the actions around the D1 lynch, and that's what convinced me you are town. Yes I loosely read Looney. I really don't care if I'm the "only one" with a town read on you, because I think I'm right. it's like I don't exist or something or I just exist to get called scum :p + Show Spoiler + hint: I've been calling him town since before you were even in the game | ||
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On December 13 2012 06:30 Hapahauli wrote: @ WBG Throughout your recent day filter, you seem to be awfully trusting of me despite having some serious reservations about Munk-E. Care to explain? He was fairly inactive and didn't say anything of substance. You're the polar opposite of that. On December 13 2012 06:30 Hapahauli wrote: Also regarding Paranoia, you seem to be pointing that "the same shit is happening" in your defense, but I fail to see the similarities in gameplay. At the end of Day 1 in Paranoia, you had just over 1 page of filter. I also think this quote is rather telling of your town mentality in that game: So then I see things like this... ...which is super odd for two reasons. 1) you really haven't been all that active - you've had ~2-3 pages of Day 1 filter. That's far from "more active than... everyone else in this game". 2) It seems to go against your stated "town mentality" that you like to sit back, be less active, and observe the thread. I like to observe on day 1. That hasn't changed, you can observe while posting. Clearly though I did something wrong last game, since I got lynched. So, this game I've been more proactive about that. (not like it's helping currently) Also I tend to post a lot regardless of alignment so it doesn't really say anything. However 3 pages for day 1 is almost always a lot for anyone. I don't know what kind of spammy games you've been playing, but in most games I've played I've had the most posts or close to it-if you think 3 pages on d1 is not a lot, then clearly we have different definitions of active. (I'm also curious as to where you are getting your benchmarks from, since in almost all the games I've played, I'd define "active" as about a page of filter per day.) | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:10 Hapahauli wrote: Le sigh. WBG claimed he was more active than virtually everyone in the thread in his defense. I pointed out this is clearly not the case. Inquiring into misrepresentation is useless because? You didn't show anything, you just asserted it. There are only 3 players in this game with more posts than me: marv, debears, and thrawn. The vast majority of all three of their posts are one liners or at the very least very very short. This line of questioning is fairly pointless though, given that I don't think activity is alignment indicative for me. | ||
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On December 12 2012 13:50 jaybrundage wrote: [/b][/b]Ze Case on Djodref So from the begginging Djo hasn't done much. He gave some filler posts about thrawn. Soft defended adam the entire game. Sheeped on me. Then Sheeped on Tunkeg. Tried to get a policy lynch on grush (joking always has a bit of truth to it) He attempted to explain his thought process with thrawn. He then started defending himself from Z-Bo. While still not wanting to lynch Adam wouldn't wanna kill his scum buddy. Here he says hes willing to lynch Adam but in the same sentence discredits it. This is important tho. He states he wouldnt mind lynching Adam BUT THEN COMPLETLY FAILS TO DELIEVER when we need him. Attemps a half joke on lynch grush who while hasnt done much has had decent reads imo Tries a desperate attempt to save his scumbuddy adam He says he will vote for adam. But never follows thru!!!!! He is half claiming to be on the adam lynch but never wants to go with it. Saying he will vote or doesnt mind lynching adam when his actions differ completely. He had no intention to lynch adam his scum buddy And when going for me shows no results he goes for Tunkeg. Another pathetic attempt to divert the adam lynch I think Djodref is scum. Thoughts? I think these are decent observations but all of the things Djo has done can be explained from a town perspective. For example, the uncertainty on Adam-townies tend to be uncertain. Also his responses in context to the thread make sense from the perspective that he simply didn't pay attention to Adam. Who knows-these are good things to consider but none of these things can be swung one way or another without knowing specifically how djo plays as scum and town. I'm not familiar enough with his play and his past games are pretty fucking extensive given how much he posts. I've just not had the time to get a proper meta read on him. I'll try to at some point, but I have very little motivation for that, given the fact that I find him pretty townie. There is also almost no way I'd consider lynching him tomorrow bar something drastic happening, since there are at least 3 players (Tunkeg, BL, VE) that I think deserve attention. | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:39 Z-BosoN wrote: Bugs, I feel this needs some clarification: I understand that it's bad play to simply try to find scum by making these easy "he didn't want to vote Adam" associations. Too many people (including myself) have such behavior that can easily and mistakenly be associated to be made out as scum. My deal with you is a bit different. My main problem was how you casually included Adam as a possible "lynch possibility", when in your previous posts you don't show that you really thought Adam was a good lynch. For instance, regarding the bolded part. You said two things here:
Now, as I see it, the first thing is wrong, and the second one is really my issue with you. First off, you did not have concrete reasons to vote Adam, or you didn't show them. The transition I'm most concerned off (which was my initial case against you) is how these two posts: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#481 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#484 Actually turn into you casually including his name: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#496 Nowhere else in your filter do you show concrete reasons to vote for Adam. In addition, you say you were the first to make your opinion on Adam clear. This is true. You clearly stated earlier that you did not want to lynch him. This was evident in those two posts above, and in which I have already gone over in my case. However, I can't figure out for the life of me what you suddenly added him as a top suspect on your list. Now, in your response to it: You say that you repeatedly said why Adam was your top suspect. This is not what I'm putting in question. What I'm putting in question is that your posts prior to including Adam are not compatible with you actually adding him in your list. This is the most part of why I think you are scum, because I think that you felt the need to casually include Adam in your suspect list because you knew he was scum. jesus fucking christ how many times do I have to repeat myself? GO BACK AND READ MY FUCKING POSTS. I fucking explain my meta read on Adam at least once in my conversation with marvellosity that I can recall, and this post reeks of you not reading my posts. | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:44 marvellosity wrote: bugs, can you explain your thinking in the passage i quoted earlier? also, could you tell me when or if at all during Day 1 you got a townread on Palmar? requote it, too many people asking me shit. I was leaning town initially after I saw he agreed with me on Adam (and watching parts of his video) but after I asked him about his opinions on Tunkeg and whatnot I found it really strange how he prioritized his reads. My read of him kind of pinballed between somewhat town and somewhat scum because I couldn't reconcile why I would have the same read as him on one of my stronger scumreads but completely different reads on almost everyone else. I still can't reconcile that. I understand that I might be simply looking too far into it, but the fact that he wants to lynch me (and he has no reasons for it, just go look for yourself. I have nothing to respond to when Palmar accuses me because he hasn't accused me of anything other than being scum-there's no case) and the way in which he is doing it keeps giving me doubts that he was scum who was forced to bus Adam, and now with the cred he's gotten he might simply be trying to look for an easy mislynch on someone who wouldn't let him get away with bullshit. It's fairly conspiracy-theorist but I really do believe that Palmar's alignment depends highly on the quality of his reads. Other than Adam I think the quality of his reads is utter shit. | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:51 Z-BosoN wrote: @bugs I've read them dude. Your meta explanation came at a later point in time, which is not what I'm referring to, You gave reasoning for voting Adam MUCH later than when you included him in your list. I feel that you are trying to pass yourself off as having actually been clear on your stance on Adam all along, which is not the case. It's not my problem you can't understand what #2 scumread means. | ||
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On December 13 2012 07:54 marvellosity wrote: Post found here. nothing much to explain here. #2s are not meaningless. This d1 was unique in that I didn't think any townie was getting bandwagoned. Usually on d1 my top two targets are not up for lynch. (in fact it's rare if EITHER of my targets is up for lynch). I wanted to get Tunkeg lynched but I had no major problems with killing Adam, just minor nitpicky points. If I thought Adam was town at any point I would've actively tried to stop the bandwagon on him. The bandwagon was pretty clear and obvious from the getgo, and I even encouraged it myself, given that I began pushing the notion that scum were being passive (among them, Adam and Tunkeg) after my very first read through of the (then-current) thread. You're falling into the same trap that everyone else here is falling into-because Adam flipped scum you have this predisposition toward questioning any sort of doubt on the lynch. That kind of notion is retarded, given that doubt is an integral part of town play. Yeah, you can be supremely confident, but you'll end up looking like a moron and you'll bring down the entire town if you're wrong. That's why only players like Foolishness can get away with being completely confident, because they're wrong so surprisingly little. (hell, I look up to sandro and he always gets lateminute doubts himself) As for this: On December 12 2012 23:01 marvellosity wrote: So here I provide him with an example of Adam catching scum like a boss in WLIIA, and then Basically in the first post bugs is saying "if you're right about Adam being useful, he's a better lynch". I provide an example of him being useful, which is then ignored with the deflection bolded there. Was I not right then?? Or?? Did he look? I didn't have the time to look at what you linked, given that I was going to bed. I'm sure as hell not going to trust someone else on some assertion without checking it out myself. I've learned that after trusting other people's shitty meta reads. (and I encourage everyone else to do the same) My response about Adam having a scumread was just my opinion on the situation, it wasn't actually a direct response to what you linked. I was just clarifying one of my doubts. | ||
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After a few minutes of that bullshit I decided I should actually go to sleep or at least study because I had a god damn final exam in the morning. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince myself that someone I already think is scum is more likely to be scum when I could rather be resting or studying for something far more important than a forum mafia game. | ||
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I can't defend myself from every player in the game and actually make decent reads. | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:10 Clarity_nl wrote: Sure you can, besides three people attacking you is hardly everyone. No one is stopping you from making decent reads, bring em on. go read my post on BL + Tunkeg + VE then. I also don't think the number is 3, mate. It's at least 7. | ||
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It's really mind boggling how stupid some of you are, though. It's like some sort of disease that spreads slowly and infects everyone with the same jub jub logic. | ||
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On December 13 2012 08:25 Palmar wrote: idk, the guy who refused to vote with me for scum yesterday, even when said scum was his 2nd best read anyway. and then he calls the other people stupid? I've drawn a picture of bugs right now ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xOJh6.png) looks like Palmar's drawn a house floating in piss underneath a clear piss sky lit up by a darker piss-colored circular object with piss coming out of it. Meanwhile I'm in my greenhouse protected from all the piss while town is drowning in it. There also appears to be some sort of snake? with teeth swimming around in the piss. Yeah, seems legit. | ||
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It's pretty crude, but basically it means you're all drowning in your own piss right now. | ||
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Just sayingas | ||
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kill tunkeg BL and VE and consider killing Palmar if his reads still suck ass. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [lol] + | ||
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Palmar 2 good how did you know I was scum Palmar? I'm curious, cause no one has ever caught me like that before. | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:33 debears wrote: Your play and personailty this game is vastly different this game really? how so? I'm really curious to know this, so I can improve my scum play for the future. | ||
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I'm not trolling you. I actually want to know how you caught me. | ||
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On December 13 2012 09:38 Vivax wrote: Ah fuck, I'm starting to get embarassed, where are my testosterone shots. it's ok, some day you will understand how to really catch scum. | ||
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well, fuck. | ||
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The only time I have ever missed as a vig is when I'm using someone else's read. e: also I disagree with Palmar about the defending thing, if you genuinely believe the target is town and in danger of being mislynched then defend him. That's why I defended djo and jay so hard, because I thought they were free mislynch bait. I fell into the trap of "assume this guy is town until later" with marv since he was in the top 2-3 of people who weren't being completely retarded/inactive/not caring. My bad on that. He actually had decent things to say on d1 and that's why I considered him town over Palmar for the jail protect (Though there was no way I was going to guess the debears shot) | ||
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On December 25 2012 12:33 marvellosity wrote: this is very silly. regardless of alignment, probably i have more sensible things to say than most of the playerbase. well, it just means the playerbase needs to say more sensible things when town :p I get kinda annoyed when the town players are more useless than the scum ones. There have been games where scum have killed more scum than town have. | ||
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