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Hero Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
November 30 2012 03:26 GMT
#4
Hahahaha HIRO mini mafia. Hahahaha. Geddit
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 05 2012 22:20 GMT
#40
/in
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 06 2012 03:17 GMT
#54
I'm the suicide bomber.

If I ever get lynched the whole thread dies all at once
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 06 2012 03:17 GMT
#55
oh FUCK I forgot the game hadn't started.

so much for that backroom deal with hiro.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 02:55 GMT
#175
Lynch all liars.

I'm tired of having to assume people are dumb and leaving them alive because of it. No more rewarding of stupidity. The reward is now a lynch.

Thrawn is a confirmed liar. Time to lynch him.

##vote thrawn2112

Vote wbg for mayor, I will clean up the state of TL Mafia.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:05 GMT
#180
If I was going to assume you were dumb, that would mean that you would pretty much be unreadable.

Assuming you're not dumb, you're more likely to be scum based on your reactions and the fact that you chose to claim miller over what you said in a previous game I hosted. You basically said yourself in Acme that you were not sure how to read miller claims. The #1 thing scum try to do is to remain unreadable. It's an incredibly selfish play, unlike what town want to do: establish themselves as town and help to find scum. Fake claiming is the antithesis to that goal.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:09 GMT
#182
Cause it's secretly not a policy lynch

Think about it though, if you actually assume he's not an idiot you see that what he did is incredibly scum-favored. Although you still have to assume he was dumb enough to miss the self aware part.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:16 GMT
#184
On December 10 2012 12:12 marvellosity wrote:
that's a pretty narrow window of dumb you got going on there


who cares, he's dumb regardless of alignment.

The point is that in a previous game, he claimed that millers claiming on d1 were hard to read. So, what to make of him claiming miller d1? He wants to be hard to read.

The policy lynch is killing him over lying, the actual part that makes the lynch good is the fact that he clearly wants to be unreadable.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:17 GMT
#185
which, to note, is exacerbated by the fact that he dodged the question about why he would claim miller half a dozen times.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:23 GMT
#189
hahaha you're right.

sadly it means that if we want to win we can't reward this fucker with a lynch.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:35 GMT
#195
On December 10 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah, but there's a difference between the original intentions of what I did and what comes out of it


no one knows your original intentions because you made a stupid play and then refused to explain it (I'm going to presume out of embarrassment, since anything else is just pathetic)

Adam, thoughts on debears?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:44 GMT
#197
On December 10 2012 12:42 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 12:35 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 10 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah, but there's a difference between the original intentions of what I did and what comes out of it


no one knows your original intentions because you made a stupid play and then refused to explain it (I'm going to presume out of embarrassment, since anything else is just pathetic)

Adam, thoughts on debears?


for someone who thinks I'm scum, you sure have some pretty descriptive words about my town motivations


for someone who can't read, you prove stupider by the moment.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 03:47 GMT
#200
alrighty.

I've concluded from the current events that there's an 80% preliminary chance that Palmar is scum.

Therefore I'm voting him, at least until he comes back and proves me otherwise.

##unvote
##vote Palmar
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 04:31 GMT
#206
On December 10 2012 12:51 marvellosity wrote:
bugs... bugs. you know i hate dangly things and that random 80% is so fucking dangly.


I like jay for scum and also clarity's last post on jay. What do you think?

I just realized my vote on Palmar is not going to do anything for a while since he's Euro :p
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 07:08 GMT
#230
after rereading jay's past games and the one game in which I recalled he was scum (Arkham City) I don't think he's scum this game. He generally lurks a lot more as scum and I don't think he'd be out here defending himself and trying to find proper reads. He is almost always an easy mislynch as town, simply because most people don't know wtf he's doing when he is town. I would know, given that as scum in Mini X I even convinced sandro that he was scum, and convincing sandro to mislynch someone is generally pretty hard unless the target is an easy mislynch to begin with. This is a preliminary read though ofc, so this may change given time.

On December 10 2012 15:46 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 12:47 wherebugsgo wrote:
alrighty.

I've concluded from the current events that there's an 80% preliminary chance that Palmar is scum.

Therefore I'm voting him, at least until he comes back and proves me otherwise.

##unvote
##vote Palmar


@ WBG

You have to explain us how you came with this "80% preliminary chance" for a scum Palmar.
He has only one post in his filter ("/in") and we have yet to see him come in the thread rather than to see him "come back".


Name someone you find scummy this game.

Can't? Okay. Process of elimination.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 07:59 GMT
#232
How many of them are there?

How many scum are probably in this game?

What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum?

Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 08:14 GMT
#234
I counted 5, so it should be a 66% chance, but w/e. Regardless, there's a much higher chance IMO of finding scum for day 1 in those who haven't joined yet than looking at the currently active players.

I chose Palmar because he was one of those 5, because I want to see what he says, and because on balance concerns, if the host decided to balance teams, he's most likely to be the vet on the scumteam.

All of these things, again, are preliminary so they mean nothing until Palmar actually shows up. (or, for that matter, all of the other guys).

I have a heuristic for determining who out of that group is most likely to be scum, but I'll wait for them to appear before doing anything. No point till then anyway.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 14:10 GMT
#241
Lol @ Palmar's post.

It's basically a cop out for not doing anything for at least the first half of day 1. We know he's here. There isn't anything to read. So why the hell should he get a free 24 hours off?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 14:19 GMT
#244
On December 10 2012 23:14 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 23:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Lol @ Palmar's post.

It's basically a cop out for not doing anything for at least the first half of day 1. We know he's here. There isn't anything to read. So why the hell should he get a free 24 hours off?


he *shouldn't*, but what you wanna do about it? do you want me to vote him for it like town killed him in Death Note? i don't see a satisfactory solution


I haven't read that game, but certainly this type of play isn't what I expect from Palmar as town.

In general I would use "laziness" as a one-word description of his scum play.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 14:48 GMT
#247
Why would I comment on people I don't think are scum?

I don't understand this line of questioning.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 16:27 GMT
#262
On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up?


this is possibly the worst attempt at discreditation I've ever seen. Firstly I said it was 80%, not 2/3, I said it should have been 2/3 when Djo pointed out there were 6 afk players and not 5. The fact that you mix the two numbers is really shady.

Why do I need any further explanation than anything I've already given? I've already stated that I don't find anyone who has already posted to be scummy. That leaves 6 players with 4 scum left. Just on a preliminary basis that means any of those 6 has a 2/3 chance of being scum.

On December 11 2012 01:02 Munk-E wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 00:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up?


for a first post I don't like how 'irrelevant' this one is. people questioning each other about arbitrary percentages never results in anything useful. munk-e, please get to other stuff from the thread asap


I just find it strange how he went from maybe or maybe not policy voting you,(he didn't make it clear either way, which seems like a way to cover his ass in case he made a mistake) to very heavily and arbitrarily tunneling palmer, with no evidence when he had 5 people with the exact same case against them. It doesn't make any sense to me.

I mean, he goes from out of nowhere accusing palmer saying he's 80% sure he's mafia, based on absolutely nothing, to when people ask him about it saying "woah, I didn't say i was certain he was scum"

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
How many of them are there?

How many scum are probably in this game?

What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum?

Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb.


Then he lowers the percentage of palmer being scum, probably so if he flips town, he doesn't seem as guilty.


It just seems weird to me.


Try reading more carefully next time.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 16:28 GMT
#263
On December 11 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:12 marvellosity wrote:
bugs & Palmar both very strong town, VE not too shabby either.

Is there a reason you're asking?


Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself.
Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT.
So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info.
I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum.


this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one.

Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 19:12 GMT
#305
On December 11 2012 04:02 Z-BosoN wrote:

I don't get why you are assuming there are four scum, is this obvious due to the setup?
Also, I don't understand why you chose to use the "80%" argument in wanting to go for palmar BEFORE that explanation in the quoted post, when that argument is easily applied to any of the people who hadn't posted.






If not 4 scum, then what?

3 is too few, and 5 is too many.

With 1 kp per night any other numbers are not very balanced unless there is some sort of blue distribution that makes other numbers likely.

You don't understand the rest of it because you didn't read properly.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 10 2012 19:29 GMT
#309
To Z-Boson, who is scum, and why? Who do you intend on voting?

I'm not going to bother answering any questions that are irrelevant to the question of who is scum, since I've already adequately explained myself and anyone pursuing further lines of questioning regarding why I singled out palmar is not actively reading the thread or is seeking an easy alternative to doing real scumhunting.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 04:43 GMT
#479
Ok, caught up on the thread. Today I had a final and tomorrow I have 2, so I'm not going to be around very much. I'll try to consolidate my thoughts briefly but here's the basic summary of my initial thoughts:

I'm almost completely certain that all of the scum are being fairly passive. Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax, Bluelightz are all good leads IMO. I would have said Zbo earlier, but I have my doubts now given how he posted later (though he didn't improve by much, it was enough).

I'm gonna get on my computer in a minute so that I can actually quote stuff I found noteworthy.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 05:43 GMT
#481
2nd reread: I'm going to take back some of what I said before. I was tainted.

Vivax is not scummy. He's too confrontational and he's actually posting more town-like than my initial impression of him. He also makes accurate observations and follows up on them, something scum often don't do. Ex:

On December 11 2012 02:50 Vivax wrote:
My analysis is the end of that post. Thrawn acts as if he had some kind of plan behind his actions, and VE defending him doesn't take that into consideration, but thinks of it as a joke.

Clarity, may I know why you are so disinterested in thrawns claim? You were the first to point out his mistake and never gave a fuck about it.

I don't feel like I can just let this matter go. Thrawn could have talked about it as a joke, instead he acts as if he did it on purpose.
He's probably just realized that he's made a big mistake, and further talking about him will harm him no matter what.


Scum generally don't say so much in so little. Vivax at the very least is commenting on things in his own words, and they are clear: he does not shy away from providing an opinion (even if it may be bad, e.g. his jaybrundage case)

Adam:

There's one thing putting me off from Adam, and that's the fact that he pointed out thrawn's post from Acme regarding his view of millers claiming day 1. It's not as indicative of towniness as something obscure being pointed out in the defense of someone, but it is something to keep note of regardless. Otherwise, whatever. I'm going to ignore him for now since there are bigger fish to fry.

Tunkeg:

Every post he makes is either a useless summary or a wishy washy load of crock shit.

Exhibit A:

On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:

Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.

I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.

I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?



He says absolutely nothing here.

At the point that he posts this, it's general consensus that thrawn is town or at the very least dumb. Thus, his entire first paragraph is just saying something for the sake of saying something. It doesn't add anything to discussion, because no one fucking asked Tunkeg if he had a town read on Thrawn. We don't need to know everyone's town reads unless they have relevance to the lynch (i.e. the guy getting lynched or being suspected is town to you)

Secondly, his thoughts on jay and djo are very nebulous and not specific at all. He also has no concrete opinion and whatever he does think was clearly not original (which is bad in the sense that, if that idea passes through to fruition, i.e. a lynch, he won't take the fall for it)

Now, some stuff from meta:

Here's a game Tunkeg played as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724. Here are some posts he made from day 1:

On May 21 2012 18:00 Tunkeg wrote:
Time for some Q&A's. I don't see any questions for except rethorical ones and questions that are allready answered in my opening thread. If you do have a question for me, or want me to clarify anything, make it clear that you want me to answer it. Now for my questions:

@VE
What do yout hink of WBG's helpfull opening post? I ask you because you got the most experience with him. As a standard normal player I would put this as a pro-town. With WBG I am unsure, as he is thought of as one of the best scumplayers on TL, and I think he is capable of leveling us with these kinds of posts.

@WBG
If you were a dayvig and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why?

@Acrofalis
You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they?

@NT
What do you think about Acrofalis play thus far?

@ET
Not to derail your arguemnent with Acrofalis to much, but what do you get out of Zealos posts thus far?

@Zealos
I can see why someone would throw out a random vote on someone to pressure as number one (even if I don't think it is a great way of pressuring).You do this as number two on VE, for no reason. And next you are sheeping ET on his Acrofalis vote. Why did you vote VE? And could elaborate why you are voting Acrofalis?



On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1

Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.

EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.

Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.

Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.

Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.

Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.


PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.

PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.



Note how much more proactive he is in establishing reads and pushing questions and thoughts. In this game, he's all like:

On December 11 2012 08:13 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:09 Vivax wrote:
Tunkeg, for whom of them would you vote right now if you had to?


I'd vote you over both of them, and jay over Djor if I had to vote now. But in general I think there is to little information thus far to put down any votes.


The change in tone and willingness to scumhunt is incredibly apparent. Either Tunkeg has become drastically worse as a town player (doubt it) or he is scum this game.

Just from memory I find these posts this game to be in contrast to how he played in Arkham City and in Mafia LI as well, where he was town.

So, let's kill Tunkeg today.

##unvote
##vote Tunkeg

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 05:46 GMT
#482
On December 11 2012 14:31 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:10 Djodref wrote:
@ Munk-E

Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ?
You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ?

Weird scum or weird town for WBG ?
By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game.



This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old.

Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough.

*snip*

I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers.


@ Munk-E

Are you sure you are going to be more active to not get lynched. As far as I know, you only have said that WBG should be town.
Could you expand on why you highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers ?


I wanted to expand upon this but I'm glad someone else caught onto it as well.

Note that Munk-E puts doubt on the idea that scum are lurking. Who does that benefit? Scum. It's a very subconscious and stupid thing to do (IMO) as scum, but discreditation like this happens a lot and it's hardly ever caught. I'm very suspicious of Munk-E for it, particularly as he himself is a lurker and he says that scum are likely not to be lurkers.

He also undermines my ideas saying that my logic is flawed, but never expands upon why. He never explains any of his assertions, and he doesn't actually call anyone scum either. His posts are very reactive, just like Tunkeg's.

I'd be fine with killing Munk-E as well today, and honestly between Tunkeg and Munk-E IMO we are almost certain to have scum. Any other lynches for now I'm not going to bother with, since there is nothing worse in the thread than what either of these players have posted.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 05:53 GMT
#484
On December 11 2012 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
wbg, when marv first voted for tunkeg I liked his case. I agree with yours too and I could lynch tunkeg tomorrow. What are your thoughts on marv voting tunkeg and recently changing to voting adam?


what the fuck, tomorrow? who are you voting on today then, Adam?

I think he was convinced by the wave of people wanting to kill Adam. It happens to everyone, and it's often why I ignore people's posts before I make my own reads. (I've noticed this trend over a long period of games-if I follow my own reads I'm often closer to being correct than if I let other people influence me)
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 07:59 GMT
#491
On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?

If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play.


just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy.

I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum.


On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?

VE gimme your thoughts on thrash


After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible


I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here.

On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea


I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME).


What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly.



Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion?

If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing.


That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers.

Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective


It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says.

But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case.

He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?


Ikr

Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it

Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video?


Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ?
What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ?


To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice son

And it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware.

So from

town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles

scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1.

Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom


I'm the first to vote in the voting thread
So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay...
I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not.

At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ?

Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day.


The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else.

So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this...

Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone?

On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:

"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."

I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that.


His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt.

@ Jay

I read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either.

The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out.

It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em?

Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : /


I call people dumb or idiots?

So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy?

I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers.

And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me.

Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases

On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum.

##Vote Vivax
(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.)


....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die.

##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundage


I'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings.


This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one...

VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay?

On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.

In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.

However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening.


I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p

+ Show Spoiler +
haha I just found that really funny for some reason
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 08:23 GMT
#496
On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?

If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play.


just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy.

I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum.


On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum.

On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?

VE gimme your thoughts on thrash


After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn.

On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible


I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here.

On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea


I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME).


What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly.



Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion?

If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing.


That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers.

Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective


It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says.

But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case.

He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation.

On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?


Ikr

Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it

Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video?


Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ?
What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ?


To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice son

And it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware.

So from

town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles

scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1.

Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom


I'm the first to vote in the voting thread
So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay...
I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not.

At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ?

Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day.


The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else.

So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this...

On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone?

On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:

"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."

I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that.


His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt.

@ Jay

I read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either.

The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out.

It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em?

Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : /


I call people dumb or idiots?

So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy?

I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers.

And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me.

Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases

On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum.

##Vote Vivax
(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.)


....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die.

##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundage


I'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings.


This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one...

VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay?

On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.

In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.

However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening.


I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p

+ Show Spoiler +
haha I just found that really funny for some reason


So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then).

If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town.


You WERE scumhunting in those games.

You were also doing stupid shit, but that has nothing to do with it. I'm not lying at all. However you've done nothing to prove that you are town this game. You just complain about my case and yet you still have no reads.

I've shown conclusively that on d1 as town you have concrete reads. This game you have none and you clearly have no intention of coming up with them any time soon. There is no evidence to suggest that you've simply decided to change your gameplay all of a sudden either, and your entire defense hinges on that point. If there is a recent game that suggests this, I am all open to read it. However, the fact that you complain in this manner is highly suggestive that you are scum.

To everyone else:

If you're not voting Tunkeg, Adam, or Munk-E today I want to hear why and I want to also convince you that you should move your vote. Preferably, to Tunkeg.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 08:26 GMT
#497
also I love how Tunkeg treats me like town when he responds to me, as if he already knows my alignment.

hehehehehehehehe
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 09:21 GMT
#504
On December 11 2012 17:36 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 17:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I love how Tunkeg treats me like town when he responds to me, as if he already knows my alignment.

hehehehehehehehe


I am not treating you like town. I am saying you are capable of getting me lynched regardless of allignment. And imo it is your "debatish" attitude towards the game that have given you a reputation for being a strong scumplayer. Your way of misrepresenting facts and winning arguements when being wrong helps you as scum, but is not that great when you are town. Either way you are wrong here, I am town, so you are either scum deliberatly trying to misrepresent the facts, or town overeager to win the arguement and not seeing the truth.


look at me, I'm tunkeg, I'm going to continue to do nothing but discredit the case!

If you want to prove that you're town, find scum. Otherwise, go die.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 10:10 GMT
#514
On December 11 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote:
So yeah, the more I read the more I'm convinced that this is the correct route to take.

##Vote Adam4167

Everything about his game seems slightly off, and I think it's the better lynch between him and Jay.

In fact, I think my other lynch options at this point would be WBG or Djodref (who has basically disappeared).


yeah I'm fine with killing Adam if Tunkeg isn't getting lynched.

I'd prefer Tunkeg obviously but Adam's #2 on my list.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 10:11 GMT
#515
also wtf on scumread on me
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 10:24 GMT
#518
On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 19:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
also wtf on scumread on me


Well you did do dumb shit twice now

a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it.
b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute.

So don't act all surprised.


Bro I tried to kill you cause you were 80% scum. Bro.

As for thrawn I'm just tired of stupid shit. Every game it's something new and stupider.

Neither of these things is a reason to call me scum, so don't be surprised when I call you out on your bullshit.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 10:55 GMT
#522
On December 11 2012 19:26 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 19:24 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2012 19:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
also wtf on scumread on me


Well you did do dumb shit twice now

a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it.
b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute.

So don't act all surprised.


Bro I tried to kill you cause you were 80% scum. Bro.

As for thrawn I'm just tired of stupid shit. Every game it's something new and stupider.

Neither of these things is a reason to call me scum, so don't be surprised when I call you out on your bullshit.


I'm not your bro dude.


I knew you'd be annoyed by that, bro

On December 11 2012 19:48 Palmar wrote: It's happened before, scum have fucked up and claimed miller on day 1.


To expand on this, there was once a game where a scum player claimed vigi, and then later claimed that the red check on him might be due to him being a miller. This was not possible setup-wise, yet a lot of people let him off the hook.

Scum fuck up just as much as townies do, but when you do it on purpose as a townie you're just inviting chaos. I don't understand why townies keep fucking making these fake claims as "plays" when they end up being bad almost every single time.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 12:06 GMT
#534
On December 11 2012 20:54 Palmar wrote:
I'll admit that I find it easier to roll with the crowd wanting to lynch adam (myself, debears, marv) than with the crowd wanting to lynch jay (djodref, bluelightz, VE etc). It's a ridiculously dangerous game trying to guess someone's alignment based on the actions of others (the people voting him), but I just like the Adam lynch a whole lot better.

Did you know that if I had to guess the scum team right now I would probably shoot for this team:


Bugs
Djodref
Adam
VE


But that doesn't change the fact I might be off base, and the case against Jay is a good one, so maybe that's where we need to go.

But meh, this is what I want to do, I want to kill adam.


first of all, no one is asking you to guess the scumteam right now, and second of all, your guesses seem pretty fucking bad.

VE is at best a null for me, I'm not scum, and I'm almost certain Djo is not either.

I'm surprised you don't find Tunkeg scummy. In fact, since you're so hardline against Adam and you've more or less ignored Tunkeg, I have my doubts about your alignment. It's pretty fucking shady that you don't even consider the case against Tunkeg.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 13:30 GMT
#559
On December 11 2012 21:21 Palmar wrote:
Out of curiosity, if you had to guess right now, what would your guess be?


not like it really matters, but probably:

Tunkeg
Adam
Munk-E
one of ZB/VE/you/BL

I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know.

On December 11 2012 22:09 marvellosity wrote:
And also, hi bugs.

How are you 'almost certain' Djo isn't scum?


I don't think mafia would so openly confront someone over a play like Djo did. His tone and willingness to question and probe is really towny to me. Ex:

On December 10 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible


I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here.

On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea


I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME).


What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly.



Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion?

If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing.


That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers.

Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective


I disagree with you, I see more town motivation than mafia motivation for fakeclaiming like that. But I would really like thrawn to explain his motivation by himself at first.



He wants to find out thrawn's motivations so he votes him despite thinking that thrawn's actions were townish. I don't see many scum who are willing to put so much attention on themselves in this manner. Think about it: it opens Djo up to the "you're voting someone you have a townread on?" attack, and it's completely obvious. I'm certain scum would at the very least word their posts more carefully or not actually confront the player in such a manner at all.

Secondly, when he pushes jay as a lynch, he ACTUALLY pushes it. I don't see scum doing that either. They often don't actively try to convince people to join them in killing someone. Sure, he might be good as scum, but we then have to ask why he would be so concerned with my vote and where it's going. Things like this:

On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG

If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ?
What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?


Indicate that Djo is reading the thread and at the very least concerned about people giving half-assed reasons to vote people. I didn't really have a great reason to vote Palmar and he called me out on it. Pretty townie reaction IMO.

He also doesn't let bullshit fly:

On December 11 2012 12:47 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
*snip*
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?



@ Tunkeg

You can find all my previous games on these forums in my profile.
I don't like the way you are saying I'm fluffy and scummy, without really backing it up with a case or at least some quotes. You are just discrediting me for free here.


If you think Djo is scum, then you have to assume he is very very good at hiding his intentions. I just don't see scum acting the way he has acted so far.

He's also far too active IMO to be a day 1 lynch consideration.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 13:31 GMT
#560
On December 11 2012 22:29 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 22:21 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:20 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hi Palmar.

Taking Adam out, do you prefer Jay over Tunkeg or vice versa?


Jay


Is there something you've seen from Tunkeg that suggests to you he is town?


Not really, but I think clarity's analysis of Jay's play so far is much more likely to hit home than bugs's meta read on Tunkeg. I agree that I wish Tunkeg would play differently, but I can't really lynch everyone who doesn't play like I want them to.


cool, you want to lynch probably the easiest mislynch on TL mafia over someone who clearly does not care about scumhunting.

Not to mention, the strongest part of my case isn't the meta, it's the fact that Tunkeg is completely indifferent to the events of the game.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 13:37 GMT
#563
On December 11 2012 22:34 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 22:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:29 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:21 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:20 Palmar wrote:
On December 11 2012 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hi Palmar.

Taking Adam out, do you prefer Jay over Tunkeg or vice versa?


Jay


Is there something you've seen from Tunkeg that suggests to you he is town?


Not really, but I think clarity's analysis of Jay's play so far is much more likely to hit home than bugs's meta read on Tunkeg. I agree that I wish Tunkeg would play differently, but I can't really lynch everyone who doesn't play like I want them to.


cool, you want to lynch probably the easiest mislynch on TL mafia over someone who clearly does not care about scumhunting.

Not to mention, the strongest part of my case isn't the meta, it's the fact that Tunkeg is completely indifferent to the events of the game.


Only when presented with these two options, remember Marv's question implied I could only pick one or the other. Don't try to twist my words into something they're not.

We agree that Adam is most likely scum, so let's do this? I mean marv thinks he's scum too, that's a lot of big names who think Adam is scum.

What are we waiting for?


I'm not twisting shit. You said you like jay over tunkeg, which is indicative that you're not reading the thread. I just don't understand how you can find jay scummier than tunkeg. It's like we're not playing the same game.

Have you never played with jay before?! How do you not understand how easy of a mislynch he is?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 13:38 GMT
#564
I'm going to go and reread Adam's posts, since Palmar's reads make me uncertain that he is town. If he's not town then it's certainly possible Adam is just off his game for whatever reason.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 13:42 GMT
#567
On December 11 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:
I also don't get how he likes Jay over Tunkeg. But generally I like the pushes on both Adam (Palmar) and Tunkeg (bugs), which means something odd's going on


I don't think we can necessarily credit Palmar with the push on Adam, given that everyone so far in the game has found him scummy, but I agree with you. I like both pushes but I disagree with Palmar's other reads, which almost certainly means something is off.

I'm curious, though. If you had to name 4 scum right now, who would you name?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 14:34 GMT
#596
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.

Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 14:38 GMT
#599
djo do you have a game you can link me where you played town?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 14:56 GMT
#606
On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.

Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.


Aye.

Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game)


generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful.

Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point)

Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either.

Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive.


wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 15:08 GMT
#610
On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.

Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.


Aye.

Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game)


generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful.

Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point)

Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either.

Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive.




Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going?


no, I don't agree with that.

Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 15:20 GMT
#613
ah fuck reading djo's past games makes me a bit less confident he is town. He's more than capable of playing a good scum game.

On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.

Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.


Aye.

Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game)


generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful.

Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point)

Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either.

Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive.




Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going?


no, I don't agree with that.

Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch.



Fucked that one up

Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so

is what I meant to say


At the very least Adam has some sort of scumread.

Tunkeg doesn't even have that.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 18:33 GMT
#697
[QUOTE]On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote:

Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs.../QUOTE]

This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point.

No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play.

Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit:

[quote]Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy.[/quote]

If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself.

However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 18:34 GMT
#698
EBWOP formatting


On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote:

Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs...


This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point.

No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play.

Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit:

Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy.


If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself.

However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 11 2012 18:35 GMT
#699
Also I should note that I lumped Adam and Tunkeg together because I assume their scumplay will look different from their town play, and that one should expect their scumplay to look fairly standard.

Standard scum play is as I described it, and it fits like 90% of players on this forum.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 00:42 GMT
#867
Are we killing Adam? Tunkeg? What's going on?

I have a final in an hour so I've been cramming, apologies for not being around.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 00:52 GMT
#895
LOL worst claim ever
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 00:54 GMT
#901
On December 12 2012 09:53 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 09:52 wherebugsgo wrote:
LOL worst claim ever


This is your default response to any claim, a-hole. LOL


I have selective memory, aka I've tried to wipe every VE claim from my mind.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 00:56 GMT
#906
On December 12 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm sorry Adam, I thought you never crumbed, now you're changing your story to "why would I crumb now?!?!"

Let me answer you, Adam, the earlier you make a crumb the more legitimate.


He's actually right though, crumbing is fucking pointless. That's not why the claim is bad. It came 10 minutes before the lynch and he has no alternatives.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 01:44 GMT
#931
On December 12 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
Munk-E is ecstatic I reckon


Something I missed?

Cause I would definitely not mind killing him
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 01:48 GMT
#937
On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote:
Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch.

##VOTE Adam4167


This post you mean?

Sounds like he figured Adam was fucked and voted him anyway. At no point does he give a real opinion on Adam lol.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 01:59 GMT
#943
On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:
On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?

If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play.


just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy.

I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum.


On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum.

On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?

VE gimme your thoughts on thrash


After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn.

On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible


I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here.

On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea


I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME).


What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly.



Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion?

If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing.


That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers.

Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective


It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says.

But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case.

He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation.

On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days?


Ikr

Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it

Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video?


Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ?
What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ?


To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice son

And it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware.

So from

town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles

scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1.

Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom


I'm the first to vote in the voting thread
So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay...
I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not.

At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ?

Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day.


The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else.

So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this...

On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:
On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone?

On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:

"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."

I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that.


His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt.

@ Jay

I read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either.

The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out.

It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em?

Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : /


I call people dumb or idiots?

So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy?

I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers.

And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me.

Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases

On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum.

##Vote Vivax
(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.)


....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die.

##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundage


I'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings.


This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one...

VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay?

On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.

In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.

However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening.


I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p

+ Show Spoiler +
haha I just found that really funny for some reason


So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then).

If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town.


This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time.

His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today.

Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today.

And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.

Now, onto Adam.


I think VE is scum too.

The most significant part of this post is the last line. Note how VE never comments on Adam in his posts except to say that he'd rather vote jay than Adam. The entire time, he's trying to derail. I recall calling out one of his posts as a derail, too.

In addition he votes Adam without ever commenting on him. I find that especially strange given that town VE will comment on literally anything. He also seems concerned with my interactions with marv and finds marv scummy, which is either him just being dumb or trying to discredit him. No reason to find marv scummy ATM, so why would he say that?

Anyway, I was unsure of VE before but the adam connection is fairly strong IMO.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 02:00 GMT
#944
On December 12 2012 10:50 Palmar wrote:
@Bugs: now that your teammate is dead, do you feel sad?


Don't worry babe, my team is shooting you tonight <3
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 06:21 GMT
#1003
No Z-Boson, I'm not scum. That's fairly evident given the fact that I continually said Adam was my #2 read to Tunkeg. I just wanted to kill Tunkeg over Adam and I would say that again given how I perceived Palmar.

There were two reasons I was unsure of lynching Adam and none about Tunkeg. Reason 1 for Adam was that he pointed out something about miller claims that thrawn had said in a previous game. I didn't find that very scummy but it was a fairly minor point of consideration. The other thing was relatively unrelated to adam's behavior but rather how easy it was to lynch him, particularly given Palmar's really strange comments re: his priority of reads.

If Palmar really did make his video without knowing his alignment, then he would be pretty hard pressed to bus his teammate Adam if he ended up seeing he was scum after saying all that shit about his posts. That's one reason I'm wary of his other reads. If his other reads are shit, then chances are strong he's not town.

And it is clearly obvious Adam was bussed, seeing as there was almost no resistance to the lynch. Everyone wanted him to die except perhaps Clarity (and I'd consider him town)
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 07:14 GMT
#1016
Tunkeg, let's go into a fantasy world for a second.

In this fantasy world, neither of us thinks the other is scum. Who is scum then?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 07:43 GMT
#1019
On December 12 2012 16:39 Tunkeg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 16:14 wherebugsgo wrote:
Tunkeg, let's go into a fantasy world for a second.

In this fantasy world, neither of us thinks the other is scum. Who is scum then?


There is no such scenario. To find the remaining scum one would need to connect the dots between you and Adam. This will require some rereading. So given you are scum I don't have an answer atm who the rest of the scumteam. I will not speculate in anything where I have to assume you are not scum, because it is irrellevant, as I am certain you are scum...


LOL

cool story bro. Even if I am scum you can't name anyone else?

Jesus you're bad at this game.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 07:44 GMT
#1020
On December 12 2012 16:37 jaybrundage wrote:
WBG what do you think about my case on Djodref


I haven't read it, but I don't think Djo is scum. I'll read it when I have time (probably some time tomorrow.)

I have to go sleep/study for my exam tomorrow morning.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 08:57 GMT
#1047
my play is clean, so I'm scum...the fuck?

I could play like a retard, but no one likes when I do that.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:18 GMT
#1060
On December 12 2012 18:01 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 17:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
my play is clean, so I'm scum...the fuck?

I could play like a retard, but no one likes when I do that.


"Clean" in the sense that you're not taking any risks. You're not going out of your way to comment on multiple players or make additional reads - you stick to a case on a player who looks like a lynch-bait candidate throughout D1.

The reality is that I hold vets to a higher standard. Your play doesn't read like a wild and engaged townie - it looks like scum trying to blend in. If you're town, it's on you to prove it in the next few days.


How have I blended in when I made probably the strongest counter case to Adam? I didn't have to do that. If I was scum and wanted to blend in I could've just bandwagoned on what was clearly the easiest lynch of the day and taken massive town cred by bussing Adam. Instead I chose to pose an alternative because I actually took a stance on someone other than Adam. Everyone found him scummy. I found someone else scummier. And, in fact, Tunkeg's play is still quite erratic.

Secondly, the thing I absolutely hate about this type of jubjub logic is that it only makes sense when you don't think. Why are people attacking me? Because I was the only notable person who didn't hardline against Adam. This is confirmation bias. We saw a scum flip, and now everyone thinks that anyone who was late to the wagon or considered killing other people is scum. Sure, that's normal when there's resistance, but when there was never any resistance to begin with usually it's the people who sheep without reason who are the scum bussing. I.E. VE. I actually had concrete reasons to be voting Adam and I was one of the first players to make my opinion on him clear. The fact that I ultimately chose not to vote him is actually not scummy, because trust me, I'm pretty fucking lazy as scum.

So, think about it for a second. You think I'm scum and you apparently hold me to a higher standard than other players. So, what exactly have I done that is not up to your standards? I'm not taking risks? You don't need to take risks to play town! In fact, taking risks is full on retarded as town. I don't think anyone on this forum understands how I operate as scum, seeing as everyone and their mother accuses me of wildly different things as both alignments. I'm notoriously "hard to read" because my play doesn't boil down to "lazy as scum and active as town" unlike the vast majority of other players.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:27 GMT
#1065
On December 12 2012 18:23 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 18:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
The fact that I ultimately chose not to vote him is actually not scummy, because trust me, I'm pretty fucking lazy as scum.

I'm notoriously "hard to read" because my play doesn't boil down to "lazy as scum and active as town" unlike the vast majority of other players.


so you are lazy as town or is one of those statements wrong?


nah I'm lazy as scum.

I just don't look lazy.

Just look at how hard I trolled Storm Mafia, for example. It doesn't take much effort for me to troll a game, but I post a fuckton more than as town.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:27 GMT
#1067
On December 12 2012 18:27 Palmar wrote:
Hey look guys, here's some perfect logic:

Bugs didn't vote Adam, so he must be scum.

I'm completely serious, I will tunnel the fuck out of him tomorrow.


go for it, noob.

If you're town, you really are just nothing more than a noob for thinking I'm scum.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:33 GMT
#1070
On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 18:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 18:01 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 12 2012 17:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
my play is clean, so I'm scum...the fuck?

I could play like a retard, but no one likes when I do that.


"Clean" in the sense that you're not taking any risks. You're not going out of your way to comment on multiple players or make additional reads - you stick to a case on a player who looks like a lynch-bait candidate throughout D1.

The reality is that I hold vets to a higher standard. Your play doesn't read like a wild and engaged townie - it looks like scum trying to blend in. If you're town, it's on you to prove it in the next few days.


How have I blended in when I made probably the strongest counter case to Adam? I didn't have to do that. If I was scum and wanted to blend in I could've just bandwagoned on what was clearly the easiest lynch of the day and taken massive town cred by bussing Adam. Instead I chose to pose an alternative because I actually took a stance on someone other than Adam. Everyone found him scummy. I found someone else scummier. And, in fact, Tunkeg's play is still quite erratic.


Making a case on lynch-bait isn't "sticking out" by any measure, and I have no idea why you're representing your play as such. Also, these "I would have done this as scum" arguments ring pretty hollow.


So you think no one stuck out on d1 then?

Adam was pretty fucking obvious lynch bait. He just happened to be scum. Being lynch bait is not alignment indicative, it's just indicative of playing like shit.

On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
Secondly, the thing I absolutely hate about this type of jubjub logic is that it only makes sense when you don't think. Why are people attacking me? Because I was the only notable person who didn't hardline against Adam. This is confirmation bias. We saw a scum flip, and now everyone thinks that anyone who was late to the wagon or considered killing other people is scum. Sure, that's normal when there's resistance, but when there was never any resistance to begin with usually it's the people who sheep without reason who are the scum bussing. I.E. VE. I actually had concrete reasons to be voting Adam and I was one of the first players to make my opinion on him clear. The fact that I ultimately chose not to vote him is actually not scummy, because trust me, I'm pretty fucking lazy as scum.


People aren't attacking you because only you didn't go after Adam. You haven't been very active, and you've spent most of Day 1 tunneling lynch bait.


I haven't been very active?

THE FUCK? I have been far more active than probably everyone else in this game. Yet, you call ME "not very active"? LOL.

On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Also, lazy as scum? From what I've heard, you're one of the better scum-players around these parts.


Being good at something doesn't mean it takes effort. I'm not even good at scum anyway.


On December 12 2012 18:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
So, think about it for a second. You think I'm scum and you apparently hold me to a higher standard than other players. So, what exactly have I done that is not up to your standards? I'm not taking risks? You don't need to take risks to play town! In fact, taking risks is full on retarded as town. I don't think anyone on this forum understands how I operate as scum, seeing as everyone and their mother accuses me of wildly different things as both alignments. I'm notoriously "hard to read" because my play doesn't boil down to "lazy as scum and active as town" unlike the vast majority of other players


I'm not saying that everyone should take "risks" by pulling a Thrawn and claiming miller. But townies (especially veteran townies) will stick their neck out and try to comment on a bunch of things, make reads, tunnel multiple players... etc. When I say you haven't taken any "risks", you haven't done anything but tunnel lynch-bait.


Name one thing I haven't commented on this game.

What have I been avoiding in discussion?

Nothing you say is backed up by any evidence, it's just a load of shit. You're just saying stuff with tinted goggles and trying to fit your preconceived notion of my alignment to actual evidence. The problem is that there is no evidence ,so you're just making things up as you go along.

If you're town, try setting aside your preconceived notions about my alignment. Go read my posts this game in context. Go read posts from my most recent game.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:35 GMT
#1071
also it's straight up stupid to try to comment on everything day 1 when consolidation is the number 1 priority.

Think about it carefully. Why do you think I was so opposed to lynching jay? Why do you think I questioned Palmar's motivations when he told me reads that didn't make sense to me? (i.e. the tunkeg, jay, djo, me reads etc.)

if you really think I'm avoiding commenting on things then you're probably not reading the game very carefully.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:55 GMT
#1074
On December 12 2012 18:46 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 18:27 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 18:27 Palmar wrote:
Hey look guys, here's some perfect logic:

Bugs didn't vote Adam, so he must be scum.

I'm completely serious, I will tunnel the fuck out of him tomorrow.


go for it, noob.

If you're town, you really are just nothing more than a noob for thinking I'm scum.


Oh shit you hurt my feelings.

But are you not the noob for not supporting my case on Adam? Oh wait, you're not, because you're scum.

I mean after all we can conclusively prove that I was right.


keep it coming noob shit

On December 11 2012 13:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
Ok, caught up on the thread. Today I had a final and tomorrow I have 2, so I'm not going to be around very much. I'll try to consolidate my thoughts briefly but here's the basic summary of my initial thoughts:

I'm almost completely certain that all of the scum are being fairly passive. Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax, Bluelightz are all good leads IMO. I would have said Zbo earlier, but I have my doubts now given how he posted later (though he didn't improve by much, it was enough).

I'm gonna get on my computer in a minute so that I can actually quote stuff I found noteworthy.


On December 11 2012 19:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote:
So yeah, the more I read the more I'm convinced that this is the correct route to take.

##Vote Adam4167

Everything about his game seems slightly off, and I think it's the better lynch between him and Jay.

In fact, I think my other lynch options at this point would be WBG or Djodref (who has basically disappeared).


yeah I'm fine with killing Adam if Tunkeg isn't getting lynched.

I'd prefer Tunkeg obviously but Adam's #2 on my list.


On December 11 2012 22:30 wherebugsgo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 21:21 Palmar wrote:
Out of curiosity, if you had to guess right now, what would your guess be?


not like it really matters, but probably:

Tunkeg
Adam
Munk-E
one of ZB/VE/you/BL

I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know.
.


[image loading]
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 09:57 GMT
#1075
anyway I'm out for the night.

In case I'm not back in time:

someone protect Palmar, he might be a noob but he's probably town.

vigis hold your shots unless you feel like shooting Tunkeg or VE. + Show Spoiler +
or, shoot me so I don't have to keep fucking around defending myself against idiots


wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 18:29 GMT
#1141
okay, this bullshit needs to stop.

There are at least three incredibly scummy posts that pretty much just went by completely unnoticed, or at the very least were noticed but ignored.

They were made by Bluelightz, Tunkeg, and VE, all of whom I think are scum at this moment.

Working backwards:

On December 13 2012 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, what if Bugs is town and scum were going to shoot Bugs overnight, but in comes the cowboy!! That's a big hypothetical obviously, at this point I agree that Bugs is probably scum. But you see what I'm saying.

Also, you two being all buddy buddy without me hurts my feelings. Maybe I'll just be buddy buddy with Hapa instead!

HI HAPA! WELCOME TO THE GAME! I THINK YOU'RE WAAAAAAY BETTER THAN MARV AND PALMAR! AND SOOOO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE TOO!


This post is basically just VE buddying to marv and Palmar, pointing out the obvious (that Hapa looks much townier than Munk-E) and then doing exactly with me what he did with Adam and some other "reads" he has mentioned throughout the game. He casually sheeps the building sentiment toward lynching me, without any sort of justification, and without any sort of prior inclination toward this idea. He has no fucking opinions of his own. Try this: ask yourself what VE has done this game. What opinions has VE had? What has he pushed? Can you summarize what he has done in this game without looking back at his posts?

I think you'll find that, in general, the towniest players are those who you can describe their play in the context of the current game in a general sense without even looking at their posts. Their contributions are instantly recognizable and they are memorable because townies don't explicitly try to blend in like this.

also I just got ninjaed by this:

On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
jaybrundage, wherebugsgo and Bluelightz were all Adam's "probable scum" reads in his reads post.

I don't believe that Adam, in a desperation act, called out three people on his team. Therefor, it is my opinion that at least one of wherebugsgo, jaybrundage and Bluelightz, probably two, are town.

This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip.

@Clarity Re: Bluelightz Case -

Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it?

To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion.


This post is bullshit.

Bluelightz is not playing to his town meta, but jay is! I am town. I feel strongly that jay is town. Given that Adam flipped scum, scum are in a position to preserve themselves. I would not doubt if they actively defend each other from this point onward simply to stay alive.

This furthers my idea that Bluelightz + VE are scum together, but obviously that can't be shown until one of them actually flips. Certainly I think Bluelightz is more likely to be scum though, since I am notoriously bad at reading VE. However, I haven't gotten to that yet, so here we go:

On December 12 2012 20:40 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 20:39 Palmar wrote:
Hey bluelightz, you down for killing bugs tomorrow?


I'm fine if there's a consensus on bugs.


This post is shit, and it was pointed out even by Palmar himself.

I'm going to make this assertion: Bluelightz doesn't want to find scum himself and is more concerned with the momentum of town sentiment. At the moment, plenty of people want to lynch me. I am town. Bluelightz is fine with that and is not concerned with actually establishing a read on me. Why? Because he's probably scum and doesn't give a fuck because he knows I am town.

Further evidence:

On December 12 2012 21:26 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 20:44 Palmar wrote:
uh...

I asked are YOU down for killing bugs. I don't care what the popular opinion is.


Personally yes I am. His obsession with supposed chance on you seems to me like an easy reason to lynch someone.


He picks the one thing in relevance to PALMAR specifically even though in the context of the thread it's almost irrelevant to my alignment. This is buddying, and pretty shitty buddying at that. The simple fact is, I would pressure Palmar regardless of alignment because I have played with Palmar a lot. I'm fairly certain Palmar himself knows this, and I'm certain Bluelightz does as well. The fact that he uses this, even though it was clear to anyone reading the thread that I was not actually going to lynch Palmar just based on some preliminary gut read, as a reason to call me scum (as THE reason, in fact) is incredibly damning.

It was painfully obvious that my vote on Palmar was intended for pressure and not an ultimate lynch vote. So why construe it as different? Again, it comes back to the idea that Bluelightz is not interested in finding scum, and is not interested in establishing his own reads either. He's certainly not that stupid, as I've seen him contribute as town in the most recent games I played with him.

On December 12 2012 23:15 Bluelightz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 22:23 marvellosity wrote:
On December 12 2012 21:26 Bluelightz wrote:
On December 12 2012 20:44 Palmar wrote:
uh...

I asked are YOU down for killing bugs. I don't care what the popular opinion is.


Personally yes I am. His obsession with supposed chance on you seems to me like an easy reason to lynch someone.


Hi BL. Is this really the main reason you'd be down for killing bugs?

Also:

+ Show Spoiler +
On December 12 2012 21:34 Djodref wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 18:01 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 12 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Also he pretty clearly doesn't assume your town, since he pressure-votes you later down the line.


No, he thought I was town the whole time. His first read on me was:

"My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it."

The other issue is him asking why I did it and pressure voting me to find out. He later says the town motivation he thought I had was that that I was hoping to attract pressure from scum. This was based on a post I made from looney. So if he thinks I'm trying to attract scum attention, why would he vote pressure me so that I'll announce it to the thread?


@ thrawn

I didn't know what the fuck you were trying to do at first when you said "not explaining why I did this at all".
At first, I was expecting you to simply admit that you wanted to spark discussing with this obvious fakeclaim but I didn't understand why you went into that "not explaining anything at all mode". I pressure voted you because I was still not so sure I had made the right choice at that time (i.e. town move or lying scum) and I wanted you to explain yourself for the following reasons:
  • If town, you would have better off stopping this ASAP imo, because people would have voted you for lying and being anti-town for not explaining yourself. Also, if you were baiting mafia, it was going to be far to obvious, so it didn't matter so much for you to "come clean".
  • If scum, it would have been better to force you into posting more shit

Then, I thought about the comment you made in the Looney Game...


This is the kinda post I was talking about off-timing with the thread.


Honestly it's the only piece of dirt that makes WBG suspicious to me, besides his defense of Adam ofc. If there is a solid case on him I'll be sure to read up though.


Confirmation that Bluelightz is not interested in actually forming his own read on me. Notice the choice of wording: "I'll be sure to read up on a solid case if one exists." He doesn't bother to say that he's going to read up on my posts, and he's certainly not saying he's going to do any work of his own. He's saying that he might consider sheeping someone.

So how is he willing to lynch me based on one thing, and one thing alone? It doesn't fucking make sense. It doesn't add up. Townies don't lynch people off singular, alignment-null tells. They lynch people when they are convinced someone is scum. Bluelightz does not seem particularly convinced that I am scum, and yet he is willing to kill me.

How the fuck do you people not notice this shit?

Lastly, Tunkeg:

On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote:
If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3?


Another case of extreme buddying. Tunkeg is clearly not interested in finding scum and I made this case earlier. He doesn't have reads, he doesn't want to make reads, and he is not approaching the game with a town mindset. A townie accepts the chance that he may be wrong. Only scum and particularly arrogant players (like Palmar, and I don't believe Tunkeg is one, from what I have experienced playing with him) will say things like this.

He is trying to line up lynches. So what happens tomorrow? We lynch me, and nothing else happens? no discussion? No reads? Nothing? I asked Tunkeg who would be scum if I am not. He did not answer, saying that it did not matter. I then asked him who would be scum if I am scum. He didn't answer that either. Why would a townie refuse to answer such questions? Why would a townie have 0 reads at this point in the game, given that a scum has flipped?

In particular, I have NEVER seen a town tunkeg have 0 reads at this point in the game. If he is indeed town his play has reached a new level of pathetic low. For his sake and for the sake of town itself I hope that's not the case. It's far better for me to assume he is scum, since I just cannot fathom how any townie, no matter how bad, would not have anything more than one read 60+ hours into the game. (not to mention his "read" on me is nothing more than OMGUS backed up by absolutely fuck all)

I'm not going to put much weight behind Tunkeg's comments on dumb people, since that can be interpreted a variety of ways depending on your predisposition toward Tunkeg's alignment. I personally found it as an overcompensation for the "aggressive townie" stereotype, but it could mean almost anything and I do not think it is particularly alignment-indicative.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 18:32 GMT
#1142
On December 13 2012 03:27 Vivax wrote:
But well, the more I think about my last post, the more circlejerking it becomes.
Depends on how ballsy scum plays.I sure didn't defend my sucmbuddies in my last scumgame.

Anyway, I found a massive scumslip by WBG:

+ Show Spoiler +
On December 12 2012 18:33 wherebugsgo wrote:

Being good at something doesn't mean it takes effort. I'm not even good at scum anyway.



wut?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 18:42 GMT
#1145
On December 13 2012 03:39 Vivax wrote:
Shit, Buggy, you are a vet, you don't need to post this much to defend yourself.Anyway, that post was just a joke.

On a more serious note, I will look at you more thoroughly when I'm back in 2 hours.

Although I will add to your defense that Bluelightz' post regarding you really sucks, it's like he felt forced to give an opinion while in truth he had no fucking clue what to think about you.


actually, I do, given that I think the majority of the players in this game are stupid enough to repeat what happened last game. It already seems to be happening, given that most of these very same players are willing to lynch me.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 18:50 GMT
#1147
On December 13 2012 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs you right...me trying to lynch jay like all game is the same as not having an opinion of my own. Spread lies elsewhere...I won't let you do it with me.

You don't even read my fucking posts when you're town because you think I'm a fucking joke so thanks for just CLAIMING scum to me. That makes things easier tomorrow for everyone.


oh, you mean that massive derail I pointed out was nothing but a bunch of horseshit?

Yeah, I read that. It was a nice attempt at a derail, though. I'll give you that.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 18:56 GMT
#1149
VE if you're town, then some things are confusing me.

Have you ever played with jay before?

Why did you post this:

On December 12 2012 09:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 09:07 Adam4167 wrote:
Alright, seeing as I am the leading vote getter today, Ill get some reads out for you guys so my death isn't a complete waste.


Obvious town to me:
Palmar, Clarity, dabears, Marv, Thrawn and Vivax.


Jaybrundage
Jay is lurky when he plays scum, and right now he's fitting the bill. In Arkham City I fell into the trap of thinking that he was too scummy to be scum, and largely ignored him for the entire game until he obviously fakeclaimed and outed himself. This game he looks mostly the same here, ultra lurky, and non-contributive. He's jumped onto my wagon with the reason of " Id rather lynch bluelightz, but I don't want a no lynch". Probably scum.


Bluelightz
Bluelightz is another one that ultra lurks when he is scum. He was literally afraid to post in Student mafia after replacing in and just sat around in the scum QT. His play in Aperture mafa as scum was similar to his play this game, he throws out a couple of reads and then lurks until someone takes an interest in him. Probably scum.


WBG
He looks to be bending his reads to please palmar, which is never a good sign from someone as headstrong as WBG. Look at his attitude towards myself, early game he has no problem with my gameplay, after declaring nobody in the thread looks suspicious and turning his attention towards the lurkers. Then, palmar posts his video and I become a suspect, he adds me to his list of scum targets, but with flimsy reasoning and 'meta' but would still rather push other people. Probably scum.


Tunkeg
Tunkeg is an interesting one. His emo routine after being questioned is not what I would consider 'townie', but his list of reads is at least somewhat helpful and actually looks somewhat similar to mine. I'd keep him alive for now, but keep an eye on him, as he so happily points out, we have no idea what to expect from his scum play. Mostly Null, make him work to show his alignment.


VisceraEyes
VE has mostly lurked today and really hasn't put much into this game. He's capable of this as either town or scum. He seems pretty content to sheep most of Palmars reads this game, something I wouldn't expect from him but I do like his case on jaybrundage. Mostly null, some small contributions.


Djodref
Djodref's biggest scum tell from Mario Mafia was that he did absolutely no scum hunting and sat around setup speculating even at LYLO. He's pushed some cases this game, which I consider points in his favour, but he's also back flipped his read on me as soon as Palmar mentioned both of us in his video. He's spent a majority of day 1 defending himself from bad cases, and I think he's capable of being a good contributing townie, leaning town on Djodref.




Anyone else that I haven't got to either wasn't memorable or isn't putting in enough effort.


##Vote Jaybrundage


GOD DAMNIT I FUCKING LOVE THESE READS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME ADAM?!?!?!


When there was nothing special in Adam's read post?

And lastly, why do you think I am scum?
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 19:41 GMT
#1152
Until about an hour ago you would have characterized my attitude toward you as ignoring you, would you not?

I do routinely ignore you, and that's not any different this game. However, that doesn't mean I haven't been watching you play. I may be wrong about you but I think the way you've approached the game so far warrants me to stop ignoring you and actually call you out on it.

Also, would you like to present evidence for your assertion that I interact with you more as scum than town? Are you conveniently forgetting LI, where I tunneled you nonstop for 48 hours? Or Magic Mini, where I called you dumb for 48 hours? Or pretty much any game other than the one or two that I played after Magic?

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 20:12 GMT
#1154
On December 13 2012 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 01:27 Djodref wrote:
@ Hapa

Can I ask more details about how you went from this

On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote:
Regarding Djo

I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis:

On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG

If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ?
What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?

The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality.

Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo.


to this ?

On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote:
*snip*

Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum.

In addition, there are posts like this...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=13#260
...where he displays a really convoluted thought process that I attribute more to town than scum.

*snip*


Also, I would like to know if you had ever read the Looney Lynching Mafia game ?

Don't you feel like you are maybe the only one with a town read on me ? What do you make of it ?


Sure thang,

I changed my read when I caught up in the thread. In particular, I hadn't read the actions around the D1 lynch, and that's what convinced me you are town. Yes I loosely read Looney. I really don't care if I'm the "only one" with a town read on you, because I think I'm right.


it's like I don't exist or something

or I just exist to get called scum :p

+ Show Spoiler +
hint: I've been calling him town since before you were even in the game

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 21:48 GMT
#1163
On December 13 2012 06:30 Hapahauli wrote:
@ WBG

Throughout your recent day filter, you seem to be awfully trusting of me despite having some serious reservations about Munk-E. Care to explain?


He was fairly inactive and didn't say anything of substance. You're the polar opposite of that.

On December 13 2012 06:30 Hapahauli wrote:


Also regarding Paranoia, you seem to be pointing that "the same shit is happening" in your defense, but I fail to see the similarities in gameplay. At the end of Day 1 in Paranoia, you had just over 1 page of filter. I also think this quote is rather telling of your town mentality in that game:

Show nested quote +
On December 01 2012 15:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
it's always amusing when on day 1, every time I roll town, I get the same shit for the same stupid reasons. There is a pattern to how I play town: I don't say anything useful for almost all of day 1 because on day 1 I like to observe. That's why my opening votes are usually intended to create reactions, and while they almost always are intentional and on pseudo-scum reads when I post them, my day 1 reads usually change very very quickly.

It's also amusing that every time I roll scum no one calls me scum and then I get shot by some faggot 3rd party or a vigi who is scared of my scum play.


So then I see things like this...
Show nested quote +
I haven't been very active?

THE FUCK? I have been far more active than probably everyone else in this game. Yet, you call ME "not very active"? LOL.


...which is super odd for two reasons.
1) you really haven't been all that active - you've had ~2-3 pages of Day 1 filter. That's far from "more active than... everyone else in this game".
2) It seems to go against your stated "town mentality" that you like to sit back, be less active, and observe the thread.


I like to observe on day 1. That hasn't changed, you can observe while posting. Clearly though I did something wrong last game, since I got lynched. So, this game I've been more proactive about that. (not like it's helping currently)

Also I tend to post a lot regardless of alignment so it doesn't really say anything. However 3 pages for day 1 is almost always a lot for anyone. I don't know what kind of spammy games you've been playing, but in most games I've played I've had the most posts or close to it-if you think 3 pages on d1 is not a lot, then clearly we have different definitions of active. (I'm also curious as to where you are getting your benchmarks from, since in almost all the games I've played, I'd define "active" as about a page of filter per day.)
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 21:49 GMT
#1164
honestly though these posts of yours are really dumb. I'm going to assume for now you're just an overzealous townie, but it's bothersome that your logic is so bad.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:36 GMT
#1187
On December 13 2012 07:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 07:06 Vivax wrote:
Yes I totally think we should be defining the standard measure of activeness in this game.

Even worse than policy discussion.


Le sigh.

WBG claimed he was more active than virtually everyone in the thread in his defense. I pointed out this is clearly not the case.

Inquiring into misrepresentation is useless because?


You didn't show anything, you just asserted it.

There are only 3 players in this game with more posts than me: marv, debears, and thrawn. The vast majority of all three of their posts are one liners or at the very least very very short.

This line of questioning is fairly pointless though, given that I don't think activity is alignment indicative for me.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:37 GMT
#1188
not to mention filter size is a pretty shitty measure of activity to begin with.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:43 GMT
#1191
On December 12 2012 13:50 jaybrundage wrote:
Ze Case on Djodref

So from the begginging Djo hasn't done much. He gave some filler posts about thrawn. Soft defended adam the entire game.

Sheeped on me. Then Sheeped on Tunkeg. Tried to get a policy lynch on grush (joking always has a bit of truth to it)

He attempted to explain his thought process with thrawn. He then started defending himself from Z-Bo. While still not wanting to lynch Adam wouldn't wanna kill his scum buddy.


Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 01:21 Djodref wrote:
On December 12 2012 01:02 Z-BosoN wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:51 Djodref wrote:
@ Z-Boson

+ Show Spoiler [for reference] +

On December 12 2012 00:28 Z-BosoN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
@ Z-Boson

1) First of all, you're wrong and you have failed to show what goal my actions would serve if I was scum.
I'm going to help you to read my posts because you obviously didn't understand where I was going during the early game.

On December 10 2012 09:37 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 09:22 debears wrote:
##Vote thrawn

I reject your reality and substitute my own


Hello everybody !

@thrawn

Did you seriously not read that millers are not self aware ?

@debears

Are you seriously willing to enforce a "Lynch all Liars" policy ?
My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it.
Debears, you are jumpy as both alignments, but I wouldn't expect your town self to post a video instead of engaging the discussion to get this game rolling.

FoS debears


2)My problem with debears early vote was not that it was a vote following a LAL policy but rather the seriousness of this vote. I've assumed that it was a vote for sparking discussion because this was the early game and the atmosphere was quite carefree at this time. Nevertheless, thrawn calling out debears on his vote against him would have been a good starting point for a real discussion but debears chose to post a video instead of this.
The problem was not the video itself, but more what he did not do instead. Anyway, this was an early FoS, and also an attempt for me to spark some discussion.And when debears implied that his vote was not serious (which I knew because he didn't use the voting thread to vote thrawn), I wondered why debears would throw early mindless votes like this, and I wanted him to explain this as well. All in all, I think that he didn't really care about what he was doing, and I don't read anything of it. I don't like how debears is focused on Adam so I didn't remove my Fos on him so far.

3)Regarding thrawn, I wanted him to explain his move. I didn't see this coming from a mafia player, but still, I wanted him to explain his motivations for it. And then thrawn goes like

On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible


and then

On December 10 2012 10:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
All the people in the past, present, and future who ask why I lied about being miller..... can go and read this post. If they don't like it then they can just continue reading it because that's all I've got to say about it.


which was pretty stubborn and stupid. I used a pressure vote (which didn't work) to get him talk, regardless of his alignment. And he deserved this pressure vote. When I unvoted him, I was expecting him to explain himself as putting himself in a position where he is going to get some pressure, especially mafia pressure. So, yeah, it matches its town mindset.

And then, Clarity came in this thread with a case worth sheeping, so I sheeped. At the light of Clarity case, jay was more likely to be scum than debears. But now, as many people started to participate overnight, I'm going to update my reads.



1) Yes I have. I mentioned "scum getting lost in the sidetracks", because that's what's going on. You are trying to make it seem like you are contributing, when in fact, you are not. More on that later.

2) I don't buy this. You assumed that it was a vote intended to spark discussion, because it was in early game and had a "carefree" atmosphere, made by debears.

You then pressure FOS debears to make sure he sparks discussion as his townie self.
Then, he goes after adam, and you keep the FOS because you disagree with his case?? You can disagree with his case, just like you did somewhere, but that is only warranted of your suspicions is if you think it's fake comes from scum.

Yet what do you do?

You go on to drop debears entirely and go around asking questions about other aspects of the game without taking a proper stance yourself.

3) This still doesn't make sense. Why in gods name are you so interested in thrawn explaining himself, if you think he's town??. Why did you pressure vote him, whom you had a town read on, instead of going after debears, someone you've made quite clear you don't like the play this game?




Also, to those who aren't feeling Djo, notice his complete lack of scumhunting in this game. Here's a summary of his entire play this game:
  • The whole debars/thrawn extravaganza I've already gone over which makes no sense.
  • Probing WBG's weird logic on palmar.
  • Giving munk-E a questionable town read
  • Flock of non-conclusive questioning and a ton of fluff.


And that's IT. Zero stances, zero cases. It's scum feigning contribution.



1)So, basically, you are saying that I couldn't keep my story straight. And that shows that I'm scum. I would say that I've been inconsistent as townies can be inconsistent. Basically, my FoS on debears was not a very serious one (like all early FoS are) and I didn't feel like I had to follow it up when thrawn put himself at the center of the attention.

2)I was disagreeing with debears view on Adam and I still disagree with it because I think he is exaggerating some points. But debears has done nothing to deserve a vote. So I don't see why I should have not the right to use my vote on thrawn to pressure him. And yeah, I was leaning town on thrawn when I voted him but I needed his explanations for his miller claim to assess my read on him.

3)Putting pressure on thrawn was fulfilling two goals. The first one was to help me to assess my town read on him when he was going to reveal us his "plan". It was kind of obvious he was going to say something like this but I was interested to know how he was going to present things, and he did say almost exactly what I expected.
The second goal was to show him that he was putting himself in a bad situation and that he should better explain himself asap so that the thread could move on to another subject because all this situation was a bit stupid and not helping us to have constructive discussions.


1) Scummies are more likely to be inconsistent than townies, so it's a small tell, but still a tell. What bugs me is the logic you had regarding debars/thrawn I've already went over.


2) Wait a minute. Bolded part. Whatever happened to:

On December 11 2012 13:01 Djodref wrote:
I've watched Palmar's video and I've changed my mind a little bit about your interactions with Adam. As a result, I would lean town on you and slightly scum on Adam but I'm not yet sold on him being scum.
The latest "scumslip" is not a scumslip in my opinion because it would have been one if he was totally sure that you were scum, which doesn't look to be the case.
The fact that he dropped you is reasonable but it's not very indicative of his alignment because it was the best thing to do as scum and as town. I'm waiting to see where he is going to go with Vivax but I think that jay is more likely to be scum than him at this point.



Still not keeping your story straight. You say you lean him being town, now you lean him being scum. Worst of all, where is the reasoning, where is the justification for this??


3) It's counter-productive. You are wasting time reassessing a "town-read" you had, and you STILL are flimsy and not moving on:


On December 11 2012 13:12 Djodref wrote:
On December 11 2012 12:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
debears could you respond to the question I asked you at the bottom of page 22? It's in the last post on the page sorta near the bottom of my post.

Djo: bleh I've probably waited too long to ask this, but I'd like you to go back to this post. When did you write it in relation to the post you made right before it? Was it one right after the other, did you make them simultaneously, did you write the 2nd one first but post the 1st one 1st, etc. please be as specific as possible


@ thrawn

The two posts you are talking about were independent if you are talking about these.

On December 10 2012 15:31 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:52 debears wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:46 Djodref wrote:
@ debears

So, between Adam and Jay, which one of them should deserve your vote right now ?
Because it looks like to me that the main reason for you to vote Adam is that he asked for your vote and voted against you.

I think Clarity made good points against Jay and I'm also leaning town on thrawn right now. I think I know the reason why he doesn't want to explain himself right now and I don't think that my pressure vote is going to work out.

@ jay

It looks like you are leaning scum on thrawn. Would you care to convince us that he is indeed scum and that we should vote him ?
As you can see, the risk to start an early bandwagon on him is not so big.

##Vote jay




I like Clarity's points on jay, and clarity seems to satisfactorily have jay covered. I'm gonna work on Adam/whoever I feel like


So, I guess you are satisfied with your vote on Adam right now. According to me, Adam has been pretty clear on his stance on thrawn and I disagree with you about him: I don't see anything to blame him for right now. I'll let you do what you feel like but I'll voice my concerns if you seem mistaken.
For example, right now, I feel like you should better vote for jay instead of Adam.


On December 10 2012 15:34 Djodref wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:53 thrawn2112 wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:34 jaybrundage wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
So someone makes a big case on you and you react by saying "glad someone is reading my posts"?

It's not that you don't put your vote where your mouth is, it's the REASON you don't vote. You shouldn't care what's easy and what's not, all you need to care about is who is scum, and try to get your strongest scumread lynched.

I would love it if you linked some games in where you claimed this has happened to you. I would also love it if you walked us through a scum thrawn's reasoning for doing what he did.

Lol is my reaction not what you expected

Wait a second, the reason i didn't vote is because i don't feel i have too. A vote doesn't mean anything till the end of the cycle. I have been going after thrawn and trying to get him to respond to me. And get some kind of explanation from him. However he has yet to respond to me. THRAWN STOP GAWD DAMN IGNORING ME.

And yes i do care if the lynch seems to easy. Because then from my experience, its likely a bus or a townie were killing.

I'll try to find the games if i can. Its been almost a year tho.

And i already gave you a scum reasoning to do what he did.


On December 10 2012 10:23 jaybrundage wrote:
Hey guys just finished work ten hour shift zzzz.

Reading up so far. It appears. That thrawn either made a pretty big scum slip. Or maybe he just made a big mistake as town.

There wasn't any point to claiming miller. As if anyone read the OP (as they should it) they would know millers arent self aware.
So first your lying. I only seeing this make sense as scum. If you didnt know that miller was self aware. Then your thought process is that you self claim miller. A you can waste a DT check. Or make DT's ineffective against you.

As town i see no reason to lie about your role. Please give your reasoning. Because as far it doesn't make any sense.

Also I thought the point about debears. Posting a video to not enage in conversation was interesting. Not a scum tell or anything. But a video wont help us find scum some good solid conversation will.


alright well I'm tired of the miller claim discussion so here's how it went down from my perspective.

At first it was mainly a joke, but it was also intended to jump start discussion. + Show Spoiler +
wow big surprise there right?
Then people started taking it more seriously than I thought they would so I decided to be dickish about it in order to ignite further discussion. I actually don't mind being a potential mislynch, I think I'm better at discerning scum when they are trying to lynch me. I don't mind a bit of pressure during early D1 if it allows me to make better reads. Also.... anything is better than talking about lurker policy ffs


@ thrawn

In fact, this is exactly the explanation I was waiting for you. I remembered this post from our previous Looney game when you were going to be mislynched at MYLO.

On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote:
Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum.


So, did you manage to get any clue of who could be scum after analysing the way they treated your fakeclaim ?


Regarding the post you linked, it was the conclusion I came to when I was asking myself why you were being stubborn and not wanting to explain your motivations for your fakeclaim. After my pressure vote on you, I was wondering why a town thrawn would put himself in such a situation and I remembered this post you made about how you liked to be pushed as a mislynched.
So, I was ready to post it before your explanation because it was what I was expecting from you. But it was not prepared, just I knew where to find this stuff.

It is a strange question. Could I ask you what you are going to do with this info ?


What do you expect to hear? Are you still trying to confirm thrawn as town? Thrawn has been questioned twice already regarding this and the most he said was "bugs came out looking worse".

This is another example of you fooling around trying to look like you are contributing, imo.


1)Okay, I'm just saying that it was the early game and that I didn't follow up my FoS on debears so much because it was not a very serious one.

2)I have Adam as slightly scum. Debears is convinced that Adam is scum. I would lynch Tunkeg and jay before Adam today, I would say that grush might even be a better lynch choice than Adam. This is where I disagree with debears. Basically, I'm not sure that Adam is scum because some points brought against him seem to be exaggerated in my opinion. I would prefer to let him live today so I can have a better read on him when the game goes on.

3)The conversation that you quoted has been initiated by thrawn and I was answering him. His first question was weird and I wanted to know why he asked me it in the first place, it turned out that he was still unsure of my thought process. I hope that things are clear between him and me now. This conversation was productive in my opinion.
I'm not 100% sure that thrawn is town at the moment and it helped me to confirm my view on him. What would be the benefit of a scum Djodref to ask this ?


Here he says hes willing to lynch Adam but in the same sentence discredits it. This is important tho. He states he wouldnt mind lynching Adam BUT THEN COMPLETLY FAILS TO DELIEVER when we need him.

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 01:45 Djodref wrote:
On December 12 2012 01:25 Vivax wrote:
Fucking hell Djodref, stop writing a river, noone's voting for you.

Instead, tell us about your reads. Who is scum and who is town in your opinion?


I think that Tunkeg is mafia, less sure about jay now. I wouldn't mind to lynch Adam but I'm not sure that he would turn out to be mafia. It pains me to see that all these players are not active right now because I cannot get better reads on them.
I think that Clarity and thrawn are town, less sure about debears or marv but I have them as town as well for the moment. I have Munk-E has a very slight town read because he went directly after wbg when entering the thread but I thought he was a newbie at that time.
I would like Z-Bo to move on so I can see what he thinks of other players than Tunkeg and me. For the rest of the players, I'm not familiar with them so they are in a grey area.


Attemps a half joke on lynch grush who while hasnt done much has had decent reads imo

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 01:48 Djodref wrote:
EBWOP: I wouldn't mind to lynch grush as well by the way



Tries a desperate attempt to save his scumbuddy adam

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 08:06 Djodref wrote:
Anyone up for a counter bandwagon on jay ?

##Unvote
##Vote Jay


He says he will vote for adam. But never follows thru!!!!!
He is half claiming to be on the adam lynch but never wants to go with it. Saying he will vote or doesnt mind lynching adam when his actions differ completely. He had no intention to lynch adam his scum buddy

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 08:12 Djodref wrote:
I'll vote Adam if I need to but I really don't think it's the best lynch for today...
I've seen successful late (like 5 min before deadline) counter bangwagon in Mario Mini Mafia so it's never too late


And when going for me shows no results he goes for Tunkeg. Another pathetic attempt to divert the adam lynch

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 09:23 Djodref wrote:
And, seriously guys, you still prefer to lynch Adam to jay after Adam's latest post ?
Counter wagon ! GO GO GO !

##Unvote
##Vote jay





I think Djodref is scum. Thoughts?
[/b][/b]

I think these are decent observations but all of the things Djo has done can be explained from a town perspective.

For example, the uncertainty on Adam-townies tend to be uncertain. Also his responses in context to the thread make sense from the perspective that he simply didn't pay attention to Adam. Who knows-these are good things to consider but none of these things can be swung one way or another without knowing specifically how djo plays as scum and town. I'm not familiar enough with his play and his past games are pretty fucking extensive given how much he posts. I've just not had the time to get a proper meta read on him. I'll try to at some point, but I have very little motivation for that, given the fact that I find him pretty townie.

There is also almost no way I'd consider lynching him tomorrow bar something drastic happening, since there are at least 3 players (Tunkeg, BL, VE) that I think deserve attention.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:44 GMT
#1193
On December 13 2012 07:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
Bugs, I feel this needs some clarification:

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 18:18 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 18:01 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 12 2012 17:57 wherebugsgo wrote:
my play is clean, so I'm scum...the fuck?

I could play like a retard, but no one likes when I do that.


"Clean" in the sense that you're not taking any risks. You're not going out of your way to comment on multiple players or make additional reads - you stick to a case on a player who looks like a lynch-bait candidate throughout D1.

The reality is that I hold vets to a higher standard. Your play doesn't read like a wild and engaged townie - it looks like scum trying to blend in. If you're town, it's on you to prove it in the next few days.


How have I blended in when I made probably the strongest counter case to Adam? I didn't have to do that. If I was scum and wanted to blend in I could've just bandwagoned on what was clearly the easiest lynch of the day and taken massive town cred by bussing Adam. Instead I chose to pose an alternative because I actually took a stance on someone other than Adam. Everyone found him scummy. I found someone else scummier. And, in fact, Tunkeg's play is still quite erratic.

Secondly, the thing I absolutely hate about this type of jubjub logic is that it only makes sense when you don't think. Why are people attacking me? Because I was the only notable person who didn't hardline against Adam. This is confirmation bias. We saw a scum flip, and now everyone thinks that anyone who was late to the wagon or considered killing other people is scum. Sure, that's normal when there's resistance, but when there was never any resistance to begin with usually it's the people who sheep without reason who are the scum bussing. I.E. VE. I actually had concrete reasons to be voting Adam and I was one of the first players to make my opinion on him clear. The fact that I ultimately chose not to vote him is actually not scummy, because trust me, I'm pretty fucking lazy as scum.

So, think about it for a second. You think I'm scum and you apparently hold me to a higher standard than other players. So, what exactly have I done that is not up to your standards? I'm not taking risks? You don't need to take risks to play town! In fact, taking risks is full on retarded as town. I don't think anyone on this forum understands how I operate as scum, seeing as everyone and their mother accuses me of wildly different things as both alignments. I'm notoriously "hard to read" because my play doesn't boil down to "lazy as scum and active as town" unlike the vast majority of other players.



I understand that it's bad play to simply try to find scum by making these easy "he didn't want to vote Adam" associations. Too many people (including myself) have such behavior that can easily and mistakenly be associated to be made out as scum. My deal with you is a bit different. My main problem was how you casually included Adam as a possible "lynch possibility", when in your previous posts you don't show that you really thought Adam was a good lynch.

For instance, regarding the bolded part. You said two things here:
  • You had concrete reasons to vote Adam.
  • You were the first one to make your opinion on him clear.

Now, as I see it, the first thing is wrong, and the second one is really my issue with you.

First off, you did not have concrete reasons to vote Adam, or you didn't show them. The transition I'm most concerned off (which was my initial case against you) is how these two posts:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=25#481
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=25#484

Actually turn into you casually including his name:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&currentpage=25#496

Nowhere else in your filter do you show concrete reasons to vote for Adam.

In addition, you say you were the first to make your opinion on Adam clear. This is true. You clearly stated earlier that you did not want to lynch him. This was evident in those two posts above, and in which I have already gone over in my case.

However, I can't figure out for the life of me what you suddenly added him as a top suspect on your list.

Now, in your response to it:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 15:21 wherebugsgo wrote:
No Z-Boson, I'm not scum. That's fairly evident given the fact that I continually said Adam was my #2 read to Tunkeg. I just wanted to kill Tunkeg over Adam and I would say that again given how I perceived Palmar.

There were two reasons I was unsure of lynching Adam and none about Tunkeg. Reason 1 for Adam was that he pointed out something about miller claims that thrawn had said in a previous game. I didn't find that very scummy but it was a fairly minor point of consideration. The other thing was relatively unrelated to adam's behavior but rather how easy it was to lynch him, particularly given Palmar's really strange comments re: his priority of reads.

If Palmar really did make his video without knowing his alignment, then he would be pretty hard pressed to bus his teammate Adam if he ended up seeing he was scum after saying all that shit about his posts. That's one reason I'm wary of his other reads. If his other reads are shit, then chances are strong he's not town.

And it is clearly obvious Adam was bussed, seeing as there was almost no resistance to the lynch. Everyone wanted him to die except perhaps Clarity (and I'd consider him town)


You say that you repeatedly said why Adam was your top suspect. This is not what I'm putting in question. What I'm putting in question is that your posts prior to including Adam are not compatible with you actually adding him in your list.

This is the most part of why I think you are scum, because I think that you felt the need to casually include Adam in your suspect list because you knew he was scum.


jesus fucking christ how many times do I have to repeat myself?

GO BACK AND READ MY FUCKING POSTS.

I fucking explain my meta read on Adam at least once in my conversation with marvellosity that I can recall, and this post reeks of you not reading my posts.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:48 GMT
#1194
On December 13 2012 07:44 marvellosity wrote:
bugs, can you explain your thinking in the passage i quoted earlier?

also, could you tell me when or if at all during Day 1 you got a townread on Palmar?


requote it, too many people asking me shit.

I was leaning town initially after I saw he agreed with me on Adam (and watching parts of his video) but after I asked him about his opinions on Tunkeg and whatnot I found it really strange how he prioritized his reads. My read of him kind of pinballed between somewhat town and somewhat scum because I couldn't reconcile why I would have the same read as him on one of my stronger scumreads but completely different reads on almost everyone else.

I still can't reconcile that. I understand that I might be simply looking too far into it, but the fact that he wants to lynch me (and he has no reasons for it, just go look for yourself. I have nothing to respond to when Palmar accuses me because he hasn't accused me of anything other than being scum-there's no case) and the way in which he is doing it keeps giving me doubts that he was scum who was forced to bus Adam, and now with the cred he's gotten he might simply be trying to look for an easy mislynch on someone who wouldn't let him get away with bullshit.

It's fairly conspiracy-theorist but I really do believe that Palmar's alignment depends highly on the quality of his reads. Other than Adam I think the quality of his reads is utter shit.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 22:52 GMT
#1196
On December 13 2012 07:51 Z-BosoN wrote:
@bugs
I've read them dude. Your meta explanation came at a later point in time, which is not what I'm referring to,
You gave reasoning for voting Adam MUCH later than when you included him in your list. I feel that you are trying to pass yourself off as having actually been clear on your stance on Adam all along, which is not the case.


It's not my problem you can't understand what #2 scumread means.

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 23:02 GMT
#1198
On December 13 2012 07:54 marvellosity wrote:
Post found here.


nothing much to explain here.

#2s are not meaningless. This d1 was unique in that I didn't think any townie was getting bandwagoned. Usually on d1 my top two targets are not up for lynch. (in fact it's rare if EITHER of my targets is up for lynch).

I wanted to get Tunkeg lynched but I had no major problems with killing Adam, just minor nitpicky points. If I thought Adam was town at any point I would've actively tried to stop the bandwagon on him. The bandwagon was pretty clear and obvious from the getgo, and I even encouraged it myself, given that I began pushing the notion that scum were being passive (among them, Adam and Tunkeg) after my very first read through of the (then-current) thread.

You're falling into the same trap that everyone else here is falling into-because Adam flipped scum you have this predisposition toward questioning any sort of doubt on the lynch. That kind of notion is retarded, given that doubt is an integral part of town play. Yeah, you can be supremely confident, but you'll end up looking like a moron and you'll bring down the entire town if you're wrong. That's why only players like Foolishness can get away with being completely confident, because they're wrong so surprisingly little. (hell, I look up to sandro and he always gets lateminute doubts himself)

As for this:

On December 12 2012 23:01 marvellosity wrote:
So here I provide him with an example of Adam catching scum like a boss in WLIIA, and then

Show nested quote +
On December 12 2012 00:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:
On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.

Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.


Aye.

Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game)


generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful.

Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point)

Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either.

Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive.




Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going?


no, I don't agree with that.

Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch.



Fucked that one up

Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so

is what I meant to say


At the very least Adam has some sort of scumread.

Tunkeg doesn't even have that.


Basically in the first post bugs is saying "if you're right about Adam being useful, he's a better lynch". I provide an example of him being useful, which is then ignored with the deflection bolded there. Was I not right then?? Or?? Did he look?


I didn't have the time to look at what you linked, given that I was going to bed. I'm sure as hell not going to trust someone else on some assertion without checking it out myself. I've learned that after trusting other people's shitty meta reads. (and I encourage everyone else to do the same)

My response about Adam having a scumread was just my opinion on the situation, it wasn't actually a direct response to what you linked. I was just clarifying one of my doubts.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 23:08 GMT
#1204
who the fuck cares? I was skimming djo's posts at the time given that someone told me that he's pretty active scum.

After a few minutes of that bullshit I decided I should actually go to sleep or at least study because I had a god damn final exam in the morning. I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince myself that someone I already think is scum is more likely to be scum when I could rather be resting or studying for something far more important than a forum mafia game.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 23:08 GMT
#1208
I'm ready to ragequit this game given how fucking frustrating and time consuming this is.

I can't defend myself from every player in the game and actually make decent reads.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 23:11 GMT
#1211
On December 13 2012 08:10 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 08:08 wherebugsgo wrote:
I'm ready to ragequit this game given how fucking frustrating and time consuming this is.

I can't defend myself from every player in the game and actually make decent reads.


Sure you can, besides three people attacking you is hardly everyone. No one is stopping you from making decent reads, bring em on.


go read my post on BL + Tunkeg + VE then.

I also don't think the number is 3, mate. It's at least 7.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 12 2012 23:15 GMT
#1213
I'm just frustrated and annoyed, not really pissed off.

It's really mind boggling how stupid some of you are, though. It's like some sort of disease that spreads slowly and infects everyone with the same jub jub logic.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:10 GMT
#1247
On December 13 2012 08:25 Palmar wrote:
idk, the guy who refused to vote with me for scum yesterday, even when said scum was his 2nd best read anyway.

and then he calls the other people stupid?

I've drawn a picture of bugs right now

[image loading]


looks like Palmar's drawn a house floating in piss underneath a clear piss sky lit up by a darker piss-colored circular object with piss coming out of it.

Meanwhile I'm in my greenhouse protected from all the piss while town is drowning in it. There also appears to be some sort of snake? with teeth swimming around in the piss.

Yeah, seems legit.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:11 GMT
#1249
btw that last post was a metaphor for this game.

It's pretty crude, but basically it means you're all drowning in your own piss right now.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:11 GMT
#1251
if I actually got shot then I <3 marv.

Just sayingas
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:12 GMT
#1254
no, fuck you. go read my posts.

kill tunkeg BL and VE and consider killing Palmar if his reads still suck ass.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:21 GMT
#1259
actually if he was scum and a vig he might claim it just to become "confirmed".

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:24 GMT
#1264
I'M SCUM OK YOU GOT ME

+ Show Spoiler [lol] +
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:31 GMT
#1274
On December 13 2012 09:28 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 09:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok palmer, was that wbg stuff for real?


he's scum, lynch him


Palmar 2 good

how did you know I was scum Palmar? I'm curious, cause no one has ever caught me like that before.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:33 GMT
#1278
On December 13 2012 09:33 debears wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 09:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:28 Palmar wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok palmer, was that wbg stuff for real?


he's scum, lynch him


Palmar 2 good

how did you know I was scum Palmar? I'm curious, cause no one has ever caught me like that before.


Your play and personailty this game is vastly different this game


really? how so? I'm really curious to know this, so I can improve my scum play for the future.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:36 GMT
#1282
On December 13 2012 09:34 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2012 09:33 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:33 debears wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:31 wherebugsgo wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:28 Palmar wrote:
On December 13 2012 09:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
ok palmer, was that wbg stuff for real?


he's scum, lynch him


Palmar 2 good

how did you know I was scum Palmar? I'm curious, cause no one has ever caught me like that before.


Your play and personailty this game is vastly different this game


really? how so? I'm really curious to know this, so I can improve my scum play for the future.


Stop trolling me.


I'm not trolling you. I actually want to know how you caught me.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 13 2012 00:48 GMT
#1290
On December 13 2012 09:38 Vivax wrote:
Ah fuck, I'm starting to get embarassed, where are my testosterone shots.


it's ok, some day you will understand how to really catch scum.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 24 2012 01:22 GMT
#3242
so Z-Boson was scum after all...

well, fuck.
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-25 01:08:46
December 25 2012 01:04 GMT
#3298
IMO it's fine to vigi active people if it's your own read. If you vigi someone on someone else's read then you fucked up.

The only time I have ever missed as a vig is when I'm using someone else's read.

e: also I disagree with Palmar about the defending thing, if you genuinely believe the target is town and in danger of being mislynched then defend him. That's why I defended djo and jay so hard, because I thought they were free mislynch bait.

I fell into the trap of "assume this guy is town until later" with marv since he was in the top 2-3 of people who weren't being completely retarded/inactive/not caring. My bad on that. He actually had decent things to say on d1 and that's why I considered him town over Palmar for the jail protect (Though there was no way I was going to guess the debears shot)

wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
December 25 2012 13:17 GMT
#3306
On December 25 2012 12:33 marvellosity wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 25 2012 10:04 wherebugsgo wrote:
IMO it's fine to vigi active people if it's your own read. If you vigi someone on someone else's read then you fucked up.

The only time I have ever missed as a vig is when I'm using someone else's read.

e: also I disagree with Palmar about the defending thing, if you genuinely believe the target is town and in danger of being mislynched then defend him. That's why I defended djo and jay so hard, because I thought they were free mislynch bait.

I fell into the trap of "assume this guy is town until later" with marv since he was in the top 2-3 of people who weren't being completely retarded/inactive/not caring. My bad on that. He actually had decent things to say on d1 and that's why I considered him town over Palmar for the jail protect (Though there was no way I was going to guess the debears shot)



this is very silly. regardless of alignment, probably i have more sensible things to say than most of the playerbase.


well, it just means the playerbase needs to say more sensible things when town :p

I get kinda annoyed when the town players are more useless than the scum ones. There have been games where scum have killed more scum than town have.
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