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I'm honestly kinda lost at how to play.
I should lynch you Djodref, no one else should even be considered for today's lynch. To your record you have not only attempted two counterwagons yesterday, desperately trying to stop me lynching scum, but then you literally lied about your reasons for not addressing the actual scum.
In fact, you talked about him, defended him quite a bit, but never saw a reason to actually try to ask him about anything.
And then you claim you simply forgot the whole ordeal, which not only is very fortunate for you (until I dug through your filter), but also points to you not being very heavily invested in your opinions. Most people don't forget their opinions that easily.
I don't know you, maybe you're just bad, but how the hell do I tell the difference?
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This game is way too hard.
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Djodref's only defense is literally "he's too scummy to be mafia" because he wasn't trying to hide the fact he was counterwagoning.
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You shouldn't lynch me because I'm town.
I think this game is hard because there is a general lack of involvement of the players. I must admit that I'm not helping with my play so far but you should notice that I'm at least a little more concerned about this game than some other players.
I thought debears was exaggerating yesterday about Adam at first. I had only played with town Adam (and not an exceptional one in Chrono Trigger Mafia) so far but I had already been fooled by scum debears. It was easier for me to interact with debears than to interact with Adam.
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EBWOP: what I meant to say is that I was having prejudices yesterday while watching them interact at first.
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I'll go to bed now, I hope to wake up to see plenty of posts here !
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@Tunkeg
On December 13 2012 18:36 Tunkeg wrote:
So WBG was a jk this game. So my entire scum or stupid analysis on him was wrong. He turened out to be just stupid.
Also anyone doubting clarity's claim is stupid. There is no reason at all for a scum clarity to claim such a hit. He had alot of towncred allready, a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar.
Scum don't have a vig, as they would have taken out Palmar with it, doublestacking. Or perhaps some other vet they view as dangerous. With no vig they went for the best safe option, taking out someone who by pushing Adam early was looking very townie, and who wasn't likely to be protected.
On December 13 2012 18:49 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar huh? Like, the way you and Hapa keep attesting that anyone doubting his claim is stupid, you mean like that kind of put on the radar?
Palmar are you at least following what I'm saying? It has put him back on the radar. People are looking into him again. Clarity had so much towncred before this hit, that scum would probably put some other guy to claim if they wanted to claim. Also scum would never hit WBG in the shitty position he was in. I find it very likely he would have been lynched day 2 had he not been shot. I would definately have voted for him today.
Why are you insistent about clarity having lots of towncred? The way I see it Clar was not exactly mr. town, especially with posts like these:
On December 13 2012 08:49 Palmar wrote:No, I think you're more likely to be scum than him.
On December 13 2012 08:51 Palmar wrote:
honestly it bothers me quite a bit clarity seems not very interested in killing bugs, and did not want to kill adam yesterday.
On December 13 2012 09:00 debears wrote:
I agree with palmar on clarity for now
Floating about. Care to explain?
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On December 13 2012 18:45 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:43 Palmar wrote:
oh right, I thought you meant he was trolling me about misusing the words, which I never do.
I want to add this thought about Tunkeg's martyr post. Remember that if we assume he is scum, he knows bugs and I are both town, so what are the implications if I fail to stop the wagon that at the time was on him and swing it over to Adam? If he's scum he leaves a lot of things to be considered if he flips, and "opinions" on two loud town players between Bugs and I.
My initial thoughts were that if he is scum, he wouldn't dare leave such strong opinions on us, especially as I had already voiced my suspicions of Bugs, and scum calling him scum then flipping scum would probably make me rethink the issue.
I still feel the most reasonable explanation is that Tunkeg isn't scum.
In one sense, I agree, however Adam left us with something pretty similar as well. I guess my objection to the martyr post is the attitude of - "oh I'm getting lynched, guess I'll finally get around to provide some reads but w/e I'm dead I'll be playing dota"
And you were saying his concise read on WBG made him look worse, that he'd be looking much better if he had a more flimsy stance:
On December 13 2012 12:12 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 12:01 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote:On December 13 2012 11:51 Z-BosoN wrote:On December 13 2012 10:17 Hapahauli wrote:
Between Bluelightz and Tunkeg for me atm. Tunkeg's martyr post doesn't look too hot right now given WBG's flip. Hapa, can you elaborate? Why do you think that Tunkeg looks worse now that WBG has flipped? Part of the reason I was leaning town on him was because I agreed with his read on WBG (martyr post). Since it was wrong though, there's not much else in that post of substance. Some obvious town reads, obvious scum read in Adam, seemingly easy case on Jay... it looks far less townie than it first appeared to me. So if he had given wbg a town read, would he have been looking better atm? I'd say he would have looked better if he expressed some more doubt or skepticisim. On a second readthrough of his filter (WBG-tunnelvision-off), his martyr post reads a lot like "oh since I might get lynched, I'll finally bother to post some reads."
Palmar is saying the exact opposite:
My initial thoughts were that if he is scum, he wouldn't dare leave such strong opinions on us, especially as I had already voiced my suspicions of Bugs, and scum calling him scum then flipping scum would probably make me rethink the issue.
Which is the "sense" you agree with Palmar about about?
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On December 14 2012 02:04 Z-BosoN wrote:@TunkegShow nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:36 Tunkeg wrote:
So WBG was a jk this game. So my entire scum or stupid analysis on him was wrong. He turened out to be just stupid.
Also anyone doubting clarity's claim is stupid. There is no reason at all for a scum clarity to claim such a hit. He had alot of towncred allready, a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar.
Scum don't have a vig, as they would have taken out Palmar with it, doublestacking. Or perhaps some other vet they view as dangerous. With no vig they went for the best safe option, taking out someone who by pushing Adam early was looking very townie, and who wasn't likely to be protected. Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:49 Tunkeg wrote:On December 13 2012 18:39 VisceraEyes wrote:
Oh a missed hit like this would only put him back on the radar huh? Like, the way you and Hapa keep attesting that anyone doubting his claim is stupid, you mean like that kind of put on the radar?
Palmar are you at least following what I'm saying? It has put him back on the radar. People are looking into him again. Clarity had so much towncred before this hit, that scum would probably put some other guy to claim if they wanted to claim. Also scum would never hit WBG in the shitty position he was in. I find it very likely he would have been lynched day 2 had he not been shot. I would definately have voted for him today. Why are you insistent about clarity having lots of towncred? The way I see it Clar was not exactly mr. town, especially with posts like these: Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 08:49 Palmar wrote:On December 13 2012 08:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
Palmar, no BL on your list? No, I think you're more likely to be scum than him. Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 08:51 Palmar wrote:
honestly it bothers me quite a bit clarity seems not very interested in killing bugs, and did not want to kill adam yesterday. Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 09:00 debears wrote:
I agree with palmar on clarity for now Floating about. Care to explain?
Because Clarity have been very townie, at least thats my opinion. His posts, especially early games indicate nothing but townieness. And these examples you linked there isn't actually saying they suspected that Clarity is scum. The first reply from Palmar is pretty standard from him, he is just saying that he don't find BL scummy, and also takes the opportunity to slap Clarity in the face. He loves to sneak small insults into his posts. The two other posts is just a follow up to that.
If you find any other posts where Clarity is viewed as not-townie then please link. Also remember that the posts you linked was very close to deadline, and if they are the only one anywhere near indicating Clarity was being viewed as not-townie, scum would still never send him out to falsely claim vig (as this would be something they would have to discuss more).
Anyways my view is that Clarity have acted townie, and had a decent amount of towncred to his name, and that it would be silly for scum to make him claim a vigshot.
Why are you bringing this up? You have an interest in getting the discussion going on whether the claim is real or not? I see only scum interest in getting such a discussion going at this point...
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@Djodref
You bring an interesting point regarding Tunkeg's "shying away" from Palmar. It's additional fluff for him not to actually scumhunt.
I don't understand this passage, though, where you are calling it a scumslip:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=69#1361
Calling people dumb like this (reference to potential jailkeepers) is a scumslip. You call town players dumb and bad, mafia players are just mafia players 
Can you elaborate?
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On December 13 2012 22:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 18:04 VisceraEyes wrote:I was not roleblocked and took no hits. Bugs flipping town is obviously a shock, but the good news is that we weren't left with nothing overnight. Remember when Adam claimed Vigilante? On December 12 2012 09:47 Adam4167 wrote:
Alright I was hoping that I could talk my way out of this lynch without having to claim, but apparently that does not seem to be possible.
I am a Vigilante.
Give me a chance to prove i'm town tonight. Pssssttt....there's emphasis in there. "...tonight." Adam's claim heavily implies the existence of a Scum Vigilante.That being said. On December 13 2012 13:33 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 13 2012 13:25 jaybrundage wrote:
Also Clarity why aren't you still going for me as your main scum read.
What changed your mind. Do you still think im scum?
So for spamming thread btw guys : / You might be. I'm more convinced on a scum BL though, bugs having a townread on you also makes me hesitate. Don't be ridiculous btw, I'm not scum and there's like a 1000 reasons why. I shot the guy who was probably going to get lynched tomorrow and who I agreed with looked like scum. This post is extremely suspicious to me for a couple of reasons. 1) That's possibly the most atrocious justification for shooting someone ever. If he was probably going to be lynched tomorrow, then WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD YOU SHOOT HIM? It doesn't make any sense, because if most everyone can agree that he looks scummy then we can lynch him. It just doesn't make sense from a townie perspective. From a scum perspective however, it removes Bugs' ability to defend himself and possibly avoid getting lynched. 2) The second part of the statement reads like scum trying to fit in. "...and who I agreed with looked like scum". If you're town, the assumption is that if you shoot someone, it's because you think they look like scum. It feels like over-justifying his shot. ##Vote: Clarity_nlThe fact that there has been no counterclaim holds no relevance - if we have a town vig who didn't shoot, there'd be no incentive to claim because it's not a guaranteed trade as there could also be more than one town vig - and the implication of Adam's claim coupled with Clarity's A) shitty target and B) suspicious justification is more than enough to lynch Clarity today. I think he's scum. I wish Bugs had told us who he jailed. Any crumb-hunters out there wanna take a stroll through his filter? What drugs are you on?? If you take out the possible existence of a mafia vigi, Clarity's shot was clearly town - he shot the primary scumread of the thread. In addition, Clarity is prone to sheeping strong players in some situations, notably me - he sheeped my Z-Bo case in Mario, he sheeped my syllo vote in Chrono. The fact that a mafia vigi is now possible doesn't suddenly make him scum, Hapa said well enough that it didn't make sense. To the bold, given I'm the only one who's claimed roleblock (I think?) it's fairly obvious. Otherwise this would fit the bill: Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 09:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
if I actually got shot then I <3 marv.
Just sayingas
JUST WHY IN THE FUCK WOULD I DO THAT?! ADAM CLAIMED VIGI DID YOU NOT FUCKING READ MARV?! WHY WOULD I DISCOUNT THE POSSIBLE EXISTENCE OF A MAFIA VIGI?! ADAM'S FUCKING CLAIM DIRECTLY...[bigDIRECTLY[/big] IMPLIES THE EXISTENCE OF A MAFIA VIGI IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW!
Think about it, why would Adam claim Vigi? Why wouldn't he claim like...Jailkeeper? Why not claim VT? IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE for Adam to claim Vigi AND THEN SAY HE CAN PROVE IT when he's a Goon unless the scum team HAS a Vigilante!
Fuck marv, I expected this kind bullheadedness from Palmar, but et tu?!!? ET TU MARV?!?!
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Palmar, as long as it's not me, I'll vote for whoever you tell me to. Clearly no one is interested in lynching the scumVig, so I'm trusting YOU to find his teammate for us to lynch today.
For what it's worth, I'd lynch into Tunkeg, Djo if I couldn't lynch Clarity. Djo for his attempts at counterwagoning the scum lynch, and Tunkeg for his interaction with Bugs. It's clear that Bugs was not going to let Tunkeg go, and I'd bet anything that's why scum killed him.
But like I said, my vote is yours. I'm proven bad this game. Fix it.
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Wtf VE and you are a vet?
Adam could just have told to have been roleblocked, and his team would have gladly helped at giving the impression.
The claim was only useful on the short-term. Scum would have prolly killed him N1 , had he really been vigi.
What about your case on jay btw?
I find it suspicious that you lost all interest in him with me trying to push him so heavily just to get stuck on this Bullshit
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Ah fuck it, I actually just want to lynch you.
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Because he's the only one willing to vote scum with me. Could be a ploy, but I'm guessing he's town based on that alone.
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I'm a vet in name alone. Ask anyone, I'm terrible at this game.
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I appreciate your humbleness.
Now, you did really LOVE those reads by Adam, didn't you? Yet you were finding him quite scummy at the time.
Nothing special to say here else than that you didn't try to look for suspicious stuff in that post by Adam.
Another thing:
13/12 @ 03:08, VE wrote
jaybrundage, wherebugsgo and Bluelightz were all Adam's "probable scum" reads in his reads post.
I don't believe that Adam, in a desperation act, called out three people on his team. Therefor, it is my opinion that at least one of wherebugsgo, jaybrundage and Bluelightz, probably two, are town.
This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip.
@Clarity Re: Bluelightz Case -
Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much.
*snip*
So, now that wbg has been proven town, you don't like both BL and jay as lynch options, what should we make of that statement of yours?
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So my way of playing mafia is to find players I think is obvious town, which I stop looking into, and then I start looking into those I believe can be scum just from following and reading the thread. I got a couple of players I consider town down by now, and therefor I started looking into these players:
Bluelightz:
Adam had him as scum on his list before he died, and that makes my scum alert go off. Also he have been a target for many players thus far. I have divided my view off Bluelightz into two parts, pro-scum reads and pro-town reads:
Pro-scum:
He haven't made a single good case, read or reason to vote a player.
Low post count, with little/nothing content.
His willingness to lynch bugs IF the rest of the players wanted this, but not providing any reasons of his own (when plenty of reasons were easy to find. - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=54#1080
Pro-town:
Voted adam very very early before going to bed. He had no reason of his own to vote him, but still such an early vote as his last vote before the dealine is something I wouldn't expect from him as scum. Especially when he just as easily could have thrown a vote my way. The question is why didn't he do that? Was it because he was town and thought adam was the best target for day one? Or perhaps it was him being scum and was certain that the wagon on me would hold all the way without him voting for me, and therefor giving him a chance to create distance to adam by being an early voter on him?
So is he scum or town? I would say I am leaning scum, but not hard enough to want to lynch him today. His early vote on adam completely throws me off here. If it hadn't been for that, I would have him as a much stronger scum candidate.
Jaybrundage:
Also one of those adam proposed as scum. And also a player I have been suspecious of from the beginning. So:
Pro-scum:
An early game, which I have commented on earlier, that was full of scummieness. Alot of poorly thought out posts, where he contradicted himself within the same post. Also very vague and wishy-washy early.
I also find his current vote on clarity strange (in fact any vote on clarity at this point in the game I find strange and suspicious).
Pro-town:
He sealed the deal on adam, he was the 9th voter. I would not expect scum to this.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=40#789
And not only did he seal the deal, he went after the ones he thought was derailing the lynch, and tried to keep the lynch on track:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=50#986
Also something I wouldn't expect a scumplayer to do. So even if he said he just wanted to avoid a no-lynch (which in it self is a good point for him not being scum), and provided no reason for voting adam, I think the way he came in to seal the deal and keep the lynch on speaks in his favor. In fact I would expect late scumplayers to come in and provide some halfass reason to vote adam, just to stay under the radar, not coming in and voting the way jay did.
So I don't want to lynch Jaybrundage either, in fact, I take him off my scumlist and put him back to neutral because of how he acted when adam was lynched.
VE:
Pro-scum:
Says clarity's case on jay isn't good, then proceeds to make a case on his own later. A case which is much much worse, and looks more to be defending Djo than anything. Also keep in mind VE as scum loves defending his scummates. Exception being when he cooks up a plan to bus (like he and toadstern did in TL Mafia LI).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=22#434
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=25#486
Haven't done any real contributions so far, a very lackluster filter.
His vote on adam. He had been agreeing on adam possible being scum earlier, but the way he presented his vote on him, was very unconvincing. Like "We give up, we need to bus Adam". This might make jays vote also look abit worse, if the scumteam together found out they needed to vote adam (but then again VE had jay as his other option so not likely both are scum). But where jay stayed and tried to keep the lynch on adam, VE was fishing trying to put some doubt into the voters with posts like:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=42#832
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=43#844
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=43#851
Also what the fuck is this (considering what he did just 6 posts later, says Djo should stop it,then later says that he is open to voting jay over adam. Is this him telling his scumbuddy to stop acting like a clown in thread????):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=43#845
Is now trying to get clarity lynched for his vigclaim, which as said before I find very suspicious (anyone suspecting clarity that is, not clarity's claim)
Pro-town:
Even though this isn't exactly a pro-town read that I can convince the rest of you about it is still a read I got. And that is that as of now I haven't seen what I think is VE's scumtell number one. I obviously won't tell what it is, unless it shows up in thread. This is the only little doubt I've got.
In total though I think VE looks scummy, and is a great lynch candidate for today. I want him lynched.
##Vote: VisceraEyes
PS: The next I would look more into would obv be Djodref.
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So much scummy play this game I'm not even considered a lynch.
No one is paying attention to me :'(.
:'(
:'(
Star...senses....faaaaaaaaadiiiiiiiiing
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
COME BACK BABY
I <3 YOU
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
Wait?
What is this?
Logic?
What?
Proper intelligence?
What?
100 IQ?
WHAT
ANYWAYS VE is playing super illogical, but he seems like an honest townie.
I don't know about Tunkeg he could either be bad town or scum.
Clarity is town.
Djordef never mentioned scumbuddy Adam and DIRECTLY tried to counterlynch bandwagon. That play is so bad as scum that is the only thing saving him. I am up for lynching him.
I'm also for lynching Bluelightz because his play is extremely bad/scummy. Plus the fact that out of all the vets, I find him by far the most scummy and mafia usually has atleast 1 vet.
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Damnit I don't know there is so much contradicting play.
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EPT
