There are at least three incredibly scummy posts that pretty much just went by completely unnoticed, or at the very least were noticed but ignored.
They were made by Bluelightz, Tunkeg, and VE, all of whom I think are scum at this moment.
Working backwards:
On December 13 2012 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, what if Bugs is town and scum were going to shoot Bugs overnight, but in comes the cowboy!! That's a big hypothetical obviously, at this point I agree that Bugs is probably scum. But you see what I'm saying.
Also, you two being all buddy buddy without me hurts my feelings. Maybe I'll just be buddy buddy with Hapa instead!
HI HAPA! WELCOME TO THE GAME! I THINK YOU'RE WAAAAAAY BETTER THAN MARV AND PALMAR! AND SOOOO MUCH MORE ATTRACTIVE TOO!
This post is basically just VE buddying to marv and Palmar, pointing out the obvious (that Hapa looks much townier than Munk-E) and then doing exactly with me what he did with Adam and some other "reads" he has mentioned throughout the game. He casually sheeps the building sentiment toward lynching me, without any sort of justification, and without any sort of prior inclination toward this idea. He has no fucking opinions of his own. Try this: ask yourself what VE has done this game. What opinions has VE had? What has he pushed? Can you summarize what he has done in this game without looking back at his posts?
I think you'll find that, in general, the towniest players are those who you can describe their play in the context of the current game in a general sense without even looking at their posts. Their contributions are instantly recognizable and they are memorable because townies don't explicitly try to blend in like this.
also I just got ninjaed by this:
On December 13 2012 03:08 VisceraEyes wrote: jaybrundage, wherebugsgo and Bluelightz were all Adam's "probable scum" reads in his reads post.
I don't believe that Adam, in a desperation act, called out three people on his team. Therefor, it is my opinion that at least one of wherebugsgo, jaybrundage and Bluelightz, probably two, are town.
This puts me at a crossroads because I had both wherebugsgo and jaybrundage as most likely scum before the flip.
@Clarity Re: Bluelightz Case -
Going back and reading it again, I don't like it very much. It's strewn with true statements (scum care about how they look more than town, Bluelightz calls X strange instead of scummy, etc) but has too many suppositions for my liking. For instance, why is Blue calling something strange instead of scummy alignment indicative? Why can't it just be strange? Why does the fact that he found further reasoning for voting Adam NECESSARILY mean that he cares about looking like a sheep? Why can he not have just found further corroborating evidence and posted it?
To be honest, I'm not sure what I think about Bluelightz myself, but your case isn't convincing me of much - only that Bluelightz is playing, as marv said, like Bluelightz. Sorry I didn't respond sooner, but work, lynch, sleep, etc. I liked it before the flip - not so much after the flip. Especially considering Adam put Blue as one of his "probable scum". Of the three people I mentioned at the top of this post, I think Blue is the least likely to flip scum. Not saying much considering I think jay and Bugs have VERY HIGH chances of flipping scum, but Blue's the least likely in my opinion.
This post is bullshit.
Bluelightz is not playing to his town meta, but jay is! I am town. I feel strongly that jay is town. Given that Adam flipped scum, scum are in a position to preserve themselves. I would not doubt if they actively defend each other from this point onward simply to stay alive.
This furthers my idea that Bluelightz + VE are scum together, but obviously that can't be shown until one of them actually flips. Certainly I think Bluelightz is more likely to be scum though, since I am notoriously bad at reading VE. However, I haven't gotten to that yet, so here we go:
On December 12 2012 20:39 Palmar wrote: Hey bluelightz, you down for killing bugs tomorrow?
I'm fine if there's a consensus on bugs.
This post is shit, and it was pointed out even by Palmar himself.
I'm going to make this assertion: Bluelightz doesn't want to find scum himself and is more concerned with the momentum of town sentiment. At the moment, plenty of people want to lynch me. I am town. Bluelightz is fine with that and is not concerned with actually establishing a read on me. Why? Because he's probably scum and doesn't give a fuck because he knows I am town.
I asked are YOU down for killing bugs. I don't care what the popular opinion is.
Personally yes I am. His obsession with supposed chance on you seems to me like an easy reason to lynch someone.
He picks the one thing in relevance to PALMAR specifically even though in the context of the thread it's almost irrelevant to my alignment. This is buddying, and pretty shitty buddying at that. The simple fact is, I would pressure Palmar regardless of alignment because I have played with Palmar a lot. I'm fairly certain Palmar himself knows this, and I'm certain Bluelightz does as well. The fact that he uses this, even though it was clear to anyone reading the thread that I was not actually going to lynch Palmar just based on some preliminary gut read, as a reason to call me scum (as THE reason, in fact) is incredibly damning.
It was painfully obvious that my vote on Palmar was intended for pressure and not an ultimate lynch vote. So why construe it as different? Again, it comes back to the idea that Bluelightz is not interested in finding scum, and is not interested in establishing his own reads either. He's certainly not that stupid, as I've seen him contribute as town in the most recent games I played with him.
On December 12 2012 17:51 Hapahauli wrote: Also he pretty clearly doesn't assume your town, since he pressure-votes you later down the line.
No, he thought I was town the whole time. His first read on me was:
"My first reaction to thrawn post was "yeah, obvious scum" then I thought that he might not have been serious at all. A one liner for a miller claim doesn't look real, regardless of his alignment. The way he answered "nvm, then" shows that he is carefree about it."
The other issue is him asking why I did it and pressure voting me to find out. He later says the town motivation he thought I had was that that I was hoping to attract pressure from scum. This was based on a post I made from looney. So if he thinks I'm trying to attract scum attention, why would he vote pressure me so that I'll announce it to the thread?
@ thrawn
I didn't know what the fuck you were trying to do at first when you said "not explaining why I did this at all". At first, I was expecting you to simply admit that you wanted to spark discussing with this obvious fakeclaim but I didn't understand why you went into that "not explaining anything at all mode". I pressure voted you because I was still not so sure I had made the right choice at that time (i.e. town move or lying scum) and I wanted you to explain yourself for the following reasons:
If town, you would have better off stopping this ASAP imo, because people would have voted you for lying and being anti-town for not explaining yourself. Also, if you were baiting mafia, it was going to be far to obvious, so it didn't matter so much for you to "come clean".
If scum, it would have been better to force you into posting more shit
Then, I thought about the comment you made in the Looney Game...
This is the kinda post I was talking about off-timing with the thread.
Honestly it's the only piece of dirt that makes WBG suspicious to me, besides his defense of Adam ofc. If there is a solid case on him I'll be sure to read up though.
Confirmation that Bluelightz is not interested in actually forming his own read on me. Notice the choice of wording: "I'll be sure to read up on a solid case if one exists." He doesn't bother to say that he's going to read up on my posts, and he's certainly not saying he's going to do any work of his own. He's saying that he might consider sheeping someone.
So how is he willing to lynch me based on one thing, and one thing alone? It doesn't fucking make sense. It doesn't add up. Townies don't lynch people off singular, alignment-null tells. They lynch people when they are convinced someone is scum. Bluelightz does not seem particularly convinced that I am scum, and yet he is willing to kill me.
How the fuck do you people not notice this shit?
Lastly, Tunkeg:
On December 13 2012 00:18 Tunkeg wrote: If we have a vig he should definately put a cap in WBG's ass. If we have a jailkeeper he should definately protect Palmar. But even if protected the chance is that scum got a vig and will double stack Palmar. WBG dies tonight or tomorrow, but Palmar who should we kill day 3?
Another case of extreme buddying. Tunkeg is clearly not interested in finding scum and I made this case earlier. He doesn't have reads, he doesn't want to make reads, and he is not approaching the game with a town mindset. A townie accepts the chance that he may be wrong. Only scum and particularly arrogant players (like Palmar, and I don't believe Tunkeg is one, from what I have experienced playing with him) will say things like this.
He is trying to line up lynches. So what happens tomorrow? We lynch me, and nothing else happens? no discussion? No reads? Nothing? I asked Tunkeg who would be scum if I am not. He did not answer, saying that it did not matter. I then asked him who would be scum if I am scum. He didn't answer that either. Why would a townie refuse to answer such questions? Why would a townie have 0 reads at this point in the game, given that a scum has flipped?
In particular, I have NEVER seen a town tunkeg have 0 reads at this point in the game. If he is indeed town his play has reached a new level of pathetic low. For his sake and for the sake of town itself I hope that's not the case. It's far better for me to assume he is scum, since I just cannot fathom how any townie, no matter how bad, would not have anything more than one read 60+ hours into the game. (not to mention his "read" on me is nothing more than OMGUS backed up by absolutely fuck all)
I'm not going to put much weight behind Tunkeg's comments on dumb people, since that can be interpreted a variety of ways depending on your predisposition toward Tunkeg's alignment. I personally found it as an overcompensation for the "aggressive townie" stereotype, but it could mean almost anything and I do not think it is particularly alignment-indicative.
On December 13 2012 03:27 Vivax wrote: But well, the more I think about my last post, the more circlejerking it becomes. Depends on how ballsy scum plays.I sure didn't defend my sucmbuddies in my last scumgame.
Shit, Buggy, you are a vet, you don't need to post this much to defend yourself.Anyway, that post was just a joke.
On a more serious note, I will look at you more thoroughly when I'm back in 2 hours.
Although I will add to your defense that Bluelightz' post regarding you really sucks, it's like he felt forced to give an opinion while in truth he had no fucking clue what to think about you.
On December 12 2012 21:34 Djodref wrote: [*]If town, you would have better off stopping this ASAP imo, because people would have voted you for lying and being anti-town for not explaining yourself. Also, if you were baiting mafia, it was going to be far to obvious, so it didn't matter so much for you to "come clean". [*]If scum, it would have been better to force you into posting more shit
[/list]
So either alignment, it was dumb and not really worth talking about. It's either stupid because I'm mafia and it would attract too much attention or it's stupid because I'm town and the mafia will automatically be paranoid of stuff like that. So I don't see why you spent so much attention on it. You even said you were thinking about this quote from the looney game:
On October 20 2012 09:13 thrawn2112 wrote: Cuz I'm not scum u silly. Don't worry I love being mislynched. It's the part of the game where in the past ive figured out who is scum.
So if you thought that was the town motivation I don't see why you'd mention it to the thread
On December 13 2012 03:39 Vivax wrote: Shit, Buggy, you are a vet, you don't need to post this much to defend yourself.Anyway, that post was just a joke.
On a more serious note, I will look at you more thoroughly when I'm back in 2 hours.
Although I will add to your defense that Bluelightz' post regarding you really sucks, it's like he felt forced to give an opinion while in truth he had no fucking clue what to think about you.
actually, I do, given that I think the majority of the players in this game are stupid enough to repeat what happened last game. It already seems to be happening, given that most of these very same players are willing to lynch me.
Bugs you right...me trying to lynch jay like all game is the same as not having an opinion of my own. Spread lies elsewhere...I won't let you do it with me.
You don't even read my fucking posts when you're town because you think I'm a fucking joke so thanks for just CLAIMING scum to me. That makes things easier tomorrow for everyone.
On December 13 2012 03:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs you right...me trying to lynch jay like all game is the same as not having an opinion of my own. Spread lies elsewhere...I won't let you do it with me.
You don't even read my fucking posts when you're town because you think I'm a fucking joke so thanks for just CLAIMING scum to me. That makes things easier tomorrow for everyone.
oh, you mean that massive derail I pointed out was nothing but a bunch of horseshit?
Yeah, I read that. It was a nice attempt at a derail, though. I'll give you that.
It was a case. I'm sorry you didn't like it. Although I'm guessing it has to do more with the subject than the content...but that's just like...my opinion man.
On December 12 2012 09:07 Adam4167 wrote: Alright, seeing as I am the leading vote getter today, Ill get some reads out for you guys so my death isn't a complete waste.
Obvious town to me: Palmar, Clarity, dabears, Marv, Thrawn and Vivax.
Jaybrundage Jay is lurky when he plays scum, and right now he's fitting the bill. In Arkham City I fell into the trap of thinking that he was too scummy to be scum, and largely ignored him for the entire game until he obviously fakeclaimed and outed himself. This game he looks mostly the same here, ultra lurky, and non-contributive. He's jumped onto my wagon with the reason of " Id rather lynch bluelightz, but I don't want a no lynch". Probably scum.
Bluelightz Bluelightz is another one that ultra lurks when he is scum. He was literally afraid to post in Student mafia after replacing in and just sat around in the scum QT. His play in Aperture mafa as scum was similar to his play this game, he throws out a couple of reads and then lurks until someone takes an interest in him. Probably scum.
WBG He looks to be bending his reads to please palmar, which is never a good sign from someone as headstrong as WBG. Look at his attitude towards myself, early game he has no problem with my gameplay, after declaring nobody in the thread looks suspicious and turning his attention towards the lurkers. Then, palmar posts his video and I become a suspect, he adds me to his list of scum targets, but with flimsy reasoning and 'meta' but would still rather push other people. Probably scum.
Tunkeg Tunkeg is an interesting one. His emo routine after being questioned is not what I would consider 'townie', but his list of reads is at least somewhat helpful and actually looks somewhat similar to mine. I'd keep him alive for now, but keep an eye on him, as he so happily points out, we have no idea what to expect from his scum play. Mostly Null, make him work to show his alignment.
VisceraEyes VE has mostly lurked today and really hasn't put much into this game. He's capable of this as either town or scum. He seems pretty content to sheep most of Palmars reads this game, something I wouldn't expect from him but I do like his case on jaybrundage. Mostly null, some small contributions.
Djodref Djodref's biggest scum tell from Mario Mafia was that he did absolutely no scum hunting and sat around setup speculating even at LYLO. He's pushed some cases this game, which I consider points in his favour, but he's also back flipped his read on me as soon as Palmar mentioned both of us in his video. He's spent a majority of day 1 defending himself from bad cases, and I think he's capable of being a good contributing townie, leaning town on Djodref.
Anyone else that I haven't got to either wasn't memorable or isn't putting in enough effort.
##Vote Jaybrundage
GOD DAMNIT I FUCKING LOVE THESE READS!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO ME ADAM?!?!?!
When there was nothing special in Adam's read post?
It's not the fact that he calls something weird or strange instead of scummy, it's that he calls NOTHING scummy. He just spreads suspicion without committing in any way. I just went through GSL open II and Rock Band and in both cases Bluelightz was nothing like this game. He was trying to figure stuff out, even if he was wrong. He was pushing people. This game he has done none of it.
He made a giant post because he knew he'd be gone for a while and he sheeps people but trying to appear as if he has his own reasons. The "reasons" he had for voting adam was a post he had made way before that, saying he found something Adam did strange, but then he never followed it up with a question or anything. It's not that it's scummy to sheep someone but also have your own reasons but BL's reasons are either bad or non-existant.
What was special was the reads themselves. I liked his town reads and his scum reads (as far as I'm concerned) were good. He didn't provide any reasoning, you're right, but he showed up at the last minute - I suppose you would have expected full cases on all of his scum reads less than an hour before lynch?
It looked like he was town and giving his last reads.
As for why I think you're scum, there are a few reasons. I just gave one of them - you're actually communicating with me. As town, I find you generally CAN'T STAND playing with me because my means and methods of finding scum are so wildly different than yours. I find you generally IGNORE what I post, unless it's something outlandish like a bad claim when you're FORCED to comment.
As scum, you're much more inclined to interact with me. Probably because you think my reads are bad and I'll be a good person to either call out for shitty cases or sheep onto for a mislynch. Either way, you interact with me, in particular, much more as scum. And fucking here we are Bugs.
I find nothing condemning in your decision to push Tunkeg over Adam, as I did the same thing with jay...however you were NOT around at lynch time trying to push Tunkeg. Sure, okay, RL. But honestly you're one of the strongest-willed characters IN TEAM LIQUID HISTORY. Do you realize we almost no-lynched yesterday? Not your fault of course, but it just seems to me like a town Bugs would give more of a shit about the lynch than that.
Until about an hour ago you would have characterized my attitude toward you as ignoring you, would you not?
I do routinely ignore you, and that's not any different this game. However, that doesn't mean I haven't been watching you play. I may be wrong about you but I think the way you've approached the game so far warrants me to stop ignoring you and actually call you out on it.
Also, would you like to present evidence for your assertion that I interact with you more as scum than town? Are you conveniently forgetting LI, where I tunneled you nonstop for 48 hours? Or Magic Mini, where I called you dumb for 48 hours? Or pretty much any game other than the one or two that I played after Magic?
On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Djo
I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis:
On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @ WBG
If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?
The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality.
Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo.
Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum.
Also, I would like to know if you had ever read the Looney Lynching Mafia game ?
Don't you feel like you are maybe the only one with a town read on me ? What do you make of it ?
Sure thang,
I changed my read when I caught up in the thread. In particular, I hadn't read the actions around the D1 lynch, and that's what convinced me you are town. Yes I loosely read Looney. I really don't care if I'm the "only one" with a town read on you, because I think I'm right.
Can I ask more details about how you went from this
On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Djo
I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis:
On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @ WBG
If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?
The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality.
Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo.
to this ?
On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: *snip*
Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum.
Also, I would like to know if you had ever read the Looney Lynching Mafia game ?
Don't you feel like you are maybe the only one with a town read on me ? What do you make of it ?
Sure thang,
I changed my read when I caught up in the thread. In particular, I hadn't read the actions around the D1 lynch, and that's what convinced me you are town. Yes I loosely read Looney. I really don't care if I'm the "only one" with a town read on you, because I think I'm right.
I'm going to have to dive Paranoia Mafia a bit to see if the situations are similar. I will say that all his "I'm not good as scum" mentions in his defense rub me the wrong way, but the WBG thing is coming together a bit too easily for my tastes. This could be due to the influence that Palmar has in the thread atm, but never hurts to check yourself for some confirmation bias.
Can I ask more details about how you went from this
On December 12 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote: Regarding Djo
I'm not sure if anyone's brought it up, but I watched Palmar's video and was really surprised he skipped over one of his posts in his analysis:
On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote: @ WBG
If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ? What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?
The underlined bit is a very strange thing for a townie to say. Townies are a naturally suspicious folk, and a line of reasoning that assumes someone is not scum really goes against this mentality.
Of course I'm not going to judge him on one post, but if there's anyone I could call a scum-read right now, it would be Djo.
to this ?
On December 12 2012 17:05 Hapahauli wrote: *snip*
Djodref - This one probably needs some 'splainin. The shit that he pulled at the end of the Day 1 lynch in no sane way came from a scum player. He was really enthralled with this idea of starting a last-minute wagon on a player when it was clear that adam would be getting lynched. I can't see hypothetical scum Djo pulling stuff like this, since he would have known that Adam would flip red. The dynamics of the game suggest that Adam was bussed by scum in the later hours. Djodref's play is far too attention-whoring and suicidal to be from scum.
Also, I would like to know if you had ever read the Looney Lynching Mafia game ?
Don't you feel like you are maybe the only one with a town read on me ? What do you make of it ?
Sure thang,
I changed my read when I caught up in the thread. In particular, I hadn't read the actions around the D1 lynch, and that's what convinced me you are town. Yes I loosely read Looney. I really don't care if I'm the "only one" with a town read on you, because I think I'm right.
Why are you guys thinking that Bugs is scum. :'( He isn't. Djordef is scum. So is Vivax. But I would also like to think that Bluelightz is scum. But that doesn't make sense if Vivax is scum. So Djor + Vivax/BlueLightz + someone who isnt grush!!!!!!!!! GO GO VIGILANTES
Throughout your recent day filter, you seem to be awfully trusting of me despite having some serious reservations about Munk-E. Care to explain?
Also regarding Paranoia, you seem to be pointing that "the same shit is happening" in your defense, but I fail to see the similarities in gameplay. At the end of Day 1 in Paranoia, you had just over 1 page of filter. I also think this quote is rather telling of your town mentality in that game:
On December 01 2012 15:17 wherebugsgo wrote: it's always amusing when on day 1, every time I roll town, I get the same shit for the same stupid reasons. There is a pattern to how I play town: I don't say anything useful for almost all of day 1 because on day 1 I like to observe. That's why my opening votes are usually intended to create reactions, and while they almost always are intentional and on pseudo-scum reads when I post them, my day 1 reads usually change very very quickly.
It's also amusing that every time I roll scum no one calls me scum and then I get shot by some faggot 3rd party or a vigi who is scared of my scum play.
So then I see things like this...
I haven't been very active?
THE FUCK? I have been far more active than probably everyone else in this game. Yet, you call ME "not very active"? LOL.
...which is super odd for two reasons. 1) you really haven't been all that active - you've had ~2-3 pages of Day 1 filter. That's far from "more active than... everyone else in this game". 2) It seems to go against your stated "town mentality" that you like to sit back, be less active, and observe the thread.
On December 13 2012 06:25 Vivax wrote: JAAAAAY, do you think Bugs would go so far to defend other scum? (Note I'm not implying that I think he's scum yet)
Get in here!
Quote the post your talking about. I dont know what your talking about.
On another note, why do people think its bad to post your cases at night. As far as a remember last time palmar said on his smurf when he was crushing people in a noob game. That keep posting at night so scum are still pressured. Wouldn't cases go hand in hand with this.
EPT
