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I'm going to go and reread Adam's posts, since Palmar's reads make me uncertain that he is town. If he's not town then it's certainly possible Adam is just off his game for whatever reason.
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On December 11 2012 22:39 marvellosity wrote:
I also don't get how he likes Jay over Tunkeg. But generally I like the pushes on both Adam (Palmar) and Tunkeg (bugs), which means something odd's going on
I don't think we can necessarily credit Palmar with the push on Adam, given that everyone so far in the game has found him scummy, but I agree with you. I like both pushes but I disagree with Palmar's other reads, which almost certainly means something is off.
I'm curious, though. If you had to name 4 scum right now, who would you name?
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alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch.
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djo do you have a game you can link me where you played town?
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On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game)
generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful.
Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point)
Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either.
Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive.
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On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game) generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going? 
no, I don't agree with that.
Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch.
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ah fuck reading djo's past games makes me a bit less confident he is town. He's more than capable of playing a good scum game.
On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2012 00:10 marvellosity wrote:On December 12 2012 00:08 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 12 2012 00:01 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 23:56 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 23:42 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 23:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright, I'm going to ignore Palmar since he somehow finds both myself and Jay scummier than Tunkeg. The fact that he thinks that makes his opinions irrelevant.
Marv-are you still willing to kill Tunkeg? Convince me why I should kill Adam over Tunkeg, and I'll consider switching my vote. Given that they're both even right now I see no reason to switch. Aye. Question for you - how do you generally evaluate the play of Adam/Tunkeg? (not in this game) generally with Adam and Tunkeg if they shy away from discussion they're probably scum. A lot of the time I find that when they are town I notice when they're present and know their opinions, and when they are scum they don't say anything useful. Take Adam and LI for example. Adam was incredibly passive and I put him on my scumlist at some point because I kept thinking, damn, Adam isn't doing anything, but no one noticed him. (I also didn't bring attention to him because I was more concerned with VE and that stupid Toad + VE shit but this is irrelevant to my point) Adam I know for a fact is complacent and passive as scum, and that's how his play here is. I don't feel like he has made any strong posts and he doesn't seem to have anything to contribute either. Tunkeg tends to draw attention to himself as town (usually unintentionally) by putting forth his opinions or reads or doing things that people don't like for whatever reason. I know I myself have chewed him out for doing things like that. I don't recall ever playing with him when he was scum, but I imagine that his scum play is similar to most other players lately; just really complacent and passive. Tunkeg's play has been more useless than complacent. What I was actually getting at with my question is that in general terms I view Adam's ability to contribute productively as significantly higher than Tunkeg's. Would you agree with this? And if so, do you see where I'm going? no, I don't agree with that. Maybe that's because I don't find anything that either player has done to be particularly memorable from a town perspective. If you're right then yes, I'd see why Adam would make a better lynch. Fucked that one up Take a gander at Whose Line where Adam caught two scum in the first cycle or so is what I meant to say
At the very least Adam has some sort of scumread.
Tunkeg doesn't even have that.
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[QUOTE]On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote:
Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs.../QUOTE]
This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point.
No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play.
Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit:
[quote]Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy.[/quote]
If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself.
However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit.
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EBWOP formatting
On December 12 2012 02:17 Tunkeg wrote:
Where he actually knows my scummeta without me ever having played scum on here. That is pretty impressive, and twisty, and made up, and bs...
This is probably the only thing in that entire post that needs addressing, since it's a good point.
No, I don't know your scumplay, and notice I never said anything specific about it! I only drew examples to what I knew and could actually find evidence for, e.g. your town play and both Adam's town and scum play.
Simple fact is that you do not play like this as town. In fact, that post you just made looks like you're giving up on the game, like this shit:
Anyways, feel free to lynch me, at least then you know Palmar is pretty much confirmed town. This is probably of more value to the town than me sticking around. Remember to protect him from nighthits if you do this, and you will win this easypeasy.
If you're town, this is fucking pathetic. You join a game just to give up because someone calls you scum? Get over yourself.
However, I doubt that you would do this as town, because I think you would actually try to win the game. I don't think you're the type of person to give up as town when you're not even the leading vote-getter. In fact, I know that in past games when you were the bandwagon of choice you certainly did not walk away from the thread and fake/throw a hissy fit.
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Also I should note that I lumped Adam and Tunkeg together because I assume their scumplay will look different from their town play, and that one should expect their scumplay to look fairly standard.
Standard scum play is as I described it, and it fits like 90% of players on this forum.
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Are we killing Adam? Tunkeg? What's going on?
I have a final in an hour so I've been cramming, apologies for not being around.
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On December 12 2012 09:53 VisceraEyes wrote:This is your default response to any claim, a-hole. LOL
I have selective memory, aka I've tried to wipe every VE claim from my mind.
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On December 12 2012 09:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm sorry Adam, I thought you never crumbed, now you're changing your story to "why would I crumb now?!?!"
Let me answer you, Adam, the earlier you make a crumb the more legitimate.
He's actually right though, crumbing is fucking pointless. That's not why the claim is bad. It came 10 minutes before the lynch and he has no alternatives.
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On December 12 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
Munk-E is ecstatic I reckon
Something I missed?
Cause I would definitely not mind killing him
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On December 12 2012 09:45 Munk-E wrote:
Woah. Remember that we need 9 votes to lynch someone. With only a half hour left, it's probably too late to start a counter wagon. Even if jay seems more likely than adam, Adam is still worth your vote more. With 9 votes exactly on him, I'm worried that a last second band wagon gives any scum buddies he might have trying to bus him a legitimate reason to turn today into a no lynch.
##VOTE Adam4167
This post you mean?
Sounds like he figured Adam was fucked and voted him anyway. At no point does he give a real opinion on Adam lol.
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On December 12 2012 03:45 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town. This post right here is why I'm not interested in lynching Tunkeg today. wherebugsgo is very opinionated about the play of others, and isn't a bit shy about calling out their play if he sees it as "bad" or "dumb". This post by Tunkeg seems genuinely confused by Bugs' assertion that his play this game is unlike his play in other, town games because Bugs has, in the past, called his play "bad" and "dumb". It seems scum would be more pissed off at the contradiction than confused - that scum would incredulously OMGUS such an assertion because it's clearly in contrast with what he had said at the time. His reads post reads EXACTLY like the "town" example Bugs provided, aside from the whole giving up and "me flipping town will confirm Palmar as town" nonsense...which could be contrived or honest - but frankly I'm not in the business of figuring out which today because I don't think Tunkeg is a good lynch today. Tunkeg's filter isn't spectacular, but it's way better than like, Bluelightz for example...or grush. I'd be more interested in a grush or Bluelightz lynch than Tunkeg. Certainly jaybrundage and Adam. I'm not touching Tunkeg with a 10 foot pole today. And Bugs, THAT is a derail bish.  Now, onto Adam.
I think VE is scum too.
The most significant part of this post is the last line. Note how VE never comments on Adam in his posts except to say that he'd rather vote jay than Adam. The entire time, he's trying to derail. I recall calling out one of his posts as a derail, too.
In addition he votes Adam without ever commenting on him. I find that especially strange given that town VE will comment on literally anything. He also seems concerned with my interactions with marv and finds marv scummy, which is either him just being dumb or trying to discredit him. No reason to find marv scummy ATM, so why would he say that?
Anyway, I was unsure of VE before but the adam connection is fairly strong IMO.
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On December 12 2012 10:50 Palmar wrote:
@Bugs: now that your teammate is dead, do you feel sad?
Don't worry babe, my team is shooting you tonight <3
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No Z-Boson, I'm not scum. That's fairly evident given the fact that I continually said Adam was my #2 read to Tunkeg. I just wanted to kill Tunkeg over Adam and I would say that again given how I perceived Palmar.
There were two reasons I was unsure of lynching Adam and none about Tunkeg. Reason 1 for Adam was that he pointed out something about miller claims that thrawn had said in a previous game. I didn't find that very scummy but it was a fairly minor point of consideration. The other thing was relatively unrelated to adam's behavior but rather how easy it was to lynch him, particularly given Palmar's really strange comments re: his priority of reads.
If Palmar really did make his video without knowing his alignment, then he would be pretty hard pressed to bus his teammate Adam if he ended up seeing he was scum after saying all that shit about his posts. That's one reason I'm wary of his other reads. If his other reads are shit, then chances are strong he's not town.
And it is clearly obvious Adam was bussed, seeing as there was almost no resistance to the lynch. Everyone wanted him to die except perhaps Clarity (and I'd consider him town)
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Tunkeg, let's go into a fantasy world for a second.
In this fantasy world, neither of us thinks the other is scum. Who is scum then?
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EPT
