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On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up?
this is possibly the worst attempt at discreditation I've ever seen. Firstly I said it was 80%, not 2/3, I said it should have been 2/3 when Djo pointed out there were 6 afk players and not 5. The fact that you mix the two numbers is really shady.
Why do I need any further explanation than anything I've already given? I've already stated that I don't find anyone who has already posted to be scummy. That leaves 6 players with 4 scum left. Just on a preliminary basis that means any of those 6 has a 2/3 chance of being scum.
On December 11 2012 01:02 Munk-E wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 00:45 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 11 2012 00:41 Munk-E wrote:
Good morning and hello, everyone! I will be doing a more in depth reading of the thread, but for now, WBG, how on earth did you figure palmer was more likely to be scum than anyone? You said there were 5 people that hadn't participated yet, yet palmer, being one of them had a 2/3rds chance of being scum. Did you sleep through math class, or do you actually have some explaination to back that up? for a first post I don't like how 'irrelevant' this one is. people questioning each other about arbitrary percentages never results in anything useful. munk-e, please get to other stuff from the thread asap I just find it strange how he went from maybe or maybe not policy voting you,(he didn't make it clear either way, which seems like a way to cover his ass in case he made a mistake) to very heavily and arbitrarily tunneling palmer, with no evidence when he had 5 people with the exact same case against them. It doesn't make any sense to me. I mean, he goes from out of nowhere accusing palmer saying he's 80% sure he's mafia, based on absolutely nothing, to when people ask him about it saying "woah, I didn't say i was certain he was scum" Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:
How many of them are there?
How many scum are probably in this game?
What did I say was my certainty on Palmar being scum?
Don't force me to treat you like you're dumb. Then he lowers the percentage of palmer being scum, probably so if he flips town, he doesn't seem as guilty. It just seems weird to me.
Try reading more carefully next time.
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On December 11 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:12 marvellosity wrote:
bugs & Palmar both very strong town, VE not too shabby either.
Is there a reason you're asking? Yeah, I was wondering if the scumteam would let scum Munk-E post what he did post against WBG, assuming he is town, or even if he is scum himself. Newbies don't go generally after the vets like this, especially if they are scum, because they know they should be careful with such guy and such guy from some other experienced player in the scumQT. So, basically, my point is that Munk-E doesn't seem to know about WBG reputation or whatever so I lean town on him because it leads me to think he doesn't have extra-info. I'm for giving him some slack and letting him post his thoughts without pressuring him to much. I don't want him to go into "newbie shell mode", especially if he is town, and I currently think there are greater chances for this than him being scum.
this is WIFOM and overthinking all in one.
Very rarely from my experience are scumteams organized at all this early in the game (or, for that matter, ever). Individual players don't tend to think very much about smaller posts, it's really only the larger posts and the overarching ideas (such as bussing/pushing wagons) that are coordinated.
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On December 11 2012 04:02 Z-BosoN wrote:
I don't get why you are assuming there are four scum, is this obvious due to the setup?
Also, I don't understand why you chose to use the "80%" argument in wanting to go for palmar BEFORE that explanation in the quoted post, when that argument is easily applied to any of the people who hadn't posted.
If not 4 scum, then what?
3 is too few, and 5 is too many.
With 1 kp per night any other numbers are not very balanced unless there is some sort of blue distribution that makes other numbers likely.
You don't understand the rest of it because you didn't read properly.
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To Z-Boson, who is scum, and why? Who do you intend on voting?
I'm not going to bother answering any questions that are irrelevant to the question of who is scum, since I've already adequately explained myself and anyone pursuing further lines of questioning regarding why I singled out palmar is not actively reading the thread or is seeking an easy alternative to doing real scumhunting.
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Ok, caught up on the thread. Today I had a final and tomorrow I have 2, so I'm not going to be around very much. I'll try to consolidate my thoughts briefly but here's the basic summary of my initial thoughts:
I'm almost completely certain that all of the scum are being fairly passive. Adam, Tunkeg, Vivax, Bluelightz are all good leads IMO. I would have said Zbo earlier, but I have my doubts now given how he posted later (though he didn't improve by much, it was enough).
I'm gonna get on my computer in a minute so that I can actually quote stuff I found noteworthy.
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2nd reread: I'm going to take back some of what I said before. I was tainted.
Vivax is not scummy. He's too confrontational and he's actually posting more town-like than my initial impression of him. He also makes accurate observations and follows up on them, something scum often don't do. Ex:
On December 11 2012 02:50 Vivax wrote:
My analysis is the end of that post. Thrawn acts as if he had some kind of plan behind his actions, and VE defending him doesn't take that into consideration, but thinks of it as a joke.
Clarity, may I know why you are so disinterested in thrawns claim? You were the first to point out his mistake and never gave a fuck about it.
I don't feel like I can just let this matter go. Thrawn could have talked about it as a joke, instead he acts as if he did it on purpose.
He's probably just realized that he's made a big mistake, and further talking about him will harm him no matter what.
Scum generally don't say so much in so little. Vivax at the very least is commenting on things in his own words, and they are clear: he does not shy away from providing an opinion (even if it may be bad, e.g. his jaybrundage case)
Adam:
There's one thing putting me off from Adam, and that's the fact that he pointed out thrawn's post from Acme regarding his view of millers claiming day 1. It's not as indicative of towniness as something obscure being pointed out in the defense of someone, but it is something to keep note of regardless. Otherwise, whatever. I'm going to ignore him for now since there are bigger fish to fry.
Tunkeg:
Every post he makes is either a useless summary or a wishy washy load of crock shit.
Exhibit A:
On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
So I have skimmed through the thread. And these are my thoughts:
Thrawn's "claim" is a joke claim. He did it in the very beginning, and quickly and without concern went back on it. I didn't like his response when called out on it. But when he in the end explained why he did as he did, it was an ok (no more, no less) explanation. I truly think people read to much into stuff like this, and overfocuses on it. I have many times made posts early that people have labeled stupid, with them voting for me and almost misslynching me (mainly because they didn't get my logic behind doing them, even after I explained it). I don't think the millar "claim" is anything worth spending much time analysing, but I would say that I find it more likely that a townie would do this.
I like Clarity's post on jaybrundage. I think jaybrundage's posts are very non-commiting, and very fluffy. I have played games with jaybrundage before, and I may be wrong, but I think his style resembles what he did in Student, where he was scum. A very wishy-washy style, where he eventually did some major slips.
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
He says absolutely nothing here.
At the point that he posts this, it's general consensus that thrawn is town or at the very least dumb. Thus, his entire first paragraph is just saying something for the sake of saying something. It doesn't add anything to discussion, because no one fucking asked Tunkeg if he had a town read on Thrawn. We don't need to know everyone's town reads unless they have relevance to the lynch (i.e. the guy getting lynched or being suspected is town to you)
Secondly, his thoughts on jay and djo are very nebulous and not specific at all. He also has no concrete opinion and whatever he does think was clearly not original (which is bad in the sense that, if that idea passes through to fruition, i.e. a lynch, he won't take the fall for it)
Now, some stuff from meta:
Here's a game Tunkeg played as town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337724. Here are some posts he made from day 1:
On May 21 2012 18:00 Tunkeg wrote:
Time for some Q&A's. I don't see any questions for except rethorical ones and questions that are allready answered in my opening thread. If you do have a question for me, or want me to clarify anything, make it clear that you want me to answer it. Now for my questions:
@VE
What do yout hink of WBG's helpfull opening post? I ask you because you got the most experience with him. As a standard normal player I would put this as a pro-town. With WBG I am unsure, as he is thought of as one of the best scumplayers on TL, and I think he is capable of leveling us with these kinds of posts.
@WBG
If you were a dayvig and had to lynch someone right now, who would it be and why?
@Acrofalis
You don't like my opening post, and thats ok. ET is comming to my defense, and are voting for you. What is your take on this situation? Do you think ET have any motives for defending me, and if so what are they?
@NT
What do you think about Acrofalis play thus far?
@ET
Not to derail your arguemnent with Acrofalis to much, but what do you get out of Zealos posts thus far?
@Zealos
I can see why someone would throw out a random vote on someone to pressure as number one (even if I don't think it is a great way of pressuring).You do this as number two on VE, for no reason. And next you are sheeping ET on his Acrofalis vote. Why did you vote VE? And could elaborate why you are voting Acrofalis?
On May 22 2012 05:29 Tunkeg wrote:
Reads d1 of Day1
Acrofalis/Marvellosity:
Leaning town based on Acrofalis aggression while he was in game. He tried to get this game going, and tried to apply some pressure.
EchelonTee:
Leaning town. He went into a fight with Acrofalis from the get go, and haven't been afraid to stick his head out.
Zealos
Get some scumvibes off him. He started the game by voting VE as number two, without a good reason. He claims it to be a joke later (which it might be). He then proceeds to vote Acrofales based on ET's case, and because of meta, basicly sheeping ET. The rest of his filter seems very empty, even though he got more post than most in this game. Some townpoints for actually bother to answer questions.
Mattchew
He might be one of those I called out for not posting earlier, that is a scum. I don't know what he is trying to do, but if his postingstyle continues this way he will be disruptive townie at best, and sabotaging scum at worst. Leaning scum for now.
Nova_Terra
Leaning scum. He was active at the start, but unlike Acrofalis his attempts at pushing seems more forced, and with no real weight behind it. His whole postingstyle seems very non-commital and gives me scumvibes.
Also Navillus need to get in the thread and do some more. His vote on WBG is the only thing he have done. And it was done without much reasoning, and in my opinion strange reasoning.
PS: I know you guys don't like list. But I want to do lists so bare with me.
PS 2: This is not an analysis post. It is a read post. When I am ready to put my vote down on someone I will try to make a good case/analysis on them. Exception is if there is a great case on them that I agree with, then I will be open about sheeping it, and probably just add some of my own reasoning to it.
Note how much more proactive he is in establishing reads and pushing questions and thoughts. In this game, he's all like:
On December 11 2012 08:13 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 08:09 Vivax wrote:
Tunkeg, for whom of them would you vote right now if you had to? I'd vote you over both of them, and jay over Djor if I had to vote now. But in general I think there is to little information thus far to put down any votes.
The change in tone and willingness to scumhunt is incredibly apparent. Either Tunkeg has become drastically worse as a town player (doubt it) or he is scum this game.
Just from memory I find these posts this game to be in contrast to how he played in Arkham City and in Mafia LI as well, where he was town.
So, let's kill Tunkeg today.
##unvote
##vote Tunkeg
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On December 11 2012 14:31 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 01:44 Munk-E wrote:On December 11 2012 01:10 Djodref wrote:
@ Munk-E
Could you confirm me that it's only your second game on these forums ?
You get yourself lynched D1 or D2 for being inactive in a newbie lately, am I right ?
Weird scum or weird town for WBG ?
By the way, the way he phrased it didn't exactly mean he was 80% sure he was mafia. It was a preliminary thing, so I understood it as valuable only for this early game. This is actually my 4th or fifth game. I can't find the others in my post history, because i guess TL doesn't keep a post history that's that old. Yes, day 1 lynch last time, I'm gonna try to be more active so people don't waste their lynch again for no reason other than i didn't say enough.*snip* I see his logic now, but it is flawed. I highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers. @ Munk-EAre you sure you are going to be more active to not get lynched. As far as I know, you only have said that WBG should be town. Could you expand on why you highly doubt that all the scum were lurkers ?
I wanted to expand upon this but I'm glad someone else caught onto it as well.
Note that Munk-E puts doubt on the idea that scum are lurking. Who does that benefit? Scum. It's a very subconscious and stupid thing to do (IMO) as scum, but discreditation like this happens a lot and it's hardly ever caught. I'm very suspicious of Munk-E for it, particularly as he himself is a lurker and he says that scum are likely not to be lurkers.
He also undermines my ideas saying that my logic is flawed, but never expands upon why. He never explains any of his assertions, and he doesn't actually call anyone scum either. His posts are very reactive, just like Tunkeg's.
I'd be fine with killing Munk-E as well today, and honestly between Tunkeg and Munk-E IMO we are almost certain to have scum. Any other lynches for now I'm not going to bother with, since there is nothing worse in the thread than what either of these players have posted.
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On December 11 2012 14:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
wbg, when marv first voted for tunkeg I liked his case. I agree with yours too and I could lynch tunkeg tomorrow. What are your thoughts on marv voting tunkeg and recently changing to voting adam?
what the fuck, tomorrow? who are you voting on today then, Adam?
I think he was convinced by the wave of people wanting to kill Adam. It happens to everyone, and it's often why I ignore people's posts before I make my own reads. (I've noticed this trend over a long period of games-if I follow my own reads I'm often closer to being correct than if I let other people influence me)
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On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play.
just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy.
I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum.
On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread  So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings.
This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one...
VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay?
On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening.
I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p
+ Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason
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On December 11 2012 17:18 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 16:59 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 16:06 Tunkeg wrote:
Lol WBG. In these games you are linking to, and others games like it, haven't you been the one complaining about me posting readposts like that? And also me posting "useless" questions?
And now you say the same play you labeled as bad and useless actually was scumhunting?
If you want me lynched for meta fine. But don't try to convince the thread you were a fan of my previos play. just because I think something is dumb doesn't mean I think it's scummy. I don't recall ever seriously calling you scum in those games. Not to mention, in AC I was scum. Nice fail response, scum. On December 11 2012 16:00 VisceraEyes wrote:I changed my mind. I think jaybrundage is scum. On December 10 2012 10:29 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? VE gimme your thoughts on thrash After his first post on thrawn in which he says he’s suspicious, he asks my opinion of the matter. I gave it, and that’s the last that was heard about it. Why did he want my input? He never referenced anything I said, or even acknowledged that I said it. I believe that he was just trying to get someone to agree with him regarding thrawn. On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective It really makes me uncomfortable when someone else speaks for me, and in this post jaybrundage is telling thrawn that I don’t believe his claim. I didn’t believe his claim, but because I thought his claim was a joke considering that the OP is explicit in the fact that millers are not self-aware. Therefor, I thought his claim was funny. But I certainly didn’t think he was LYING about his claim with any malicious intent. It doesn’t make sense for me to think that he thought that I would believe that claim based on what the OP says. But jaybrundage is telling thrawn in no uncertain terms that I, VisceraEyes, think that he’s lying about his claim for no reason. And that’s not the case. He then goes on to say that “...It only makes sense from a mafia perspective.” But that’s not true either is it? If thrawn is to be believed, he did it as a joke and to “spark discussion” and “ignite conversation” and such. Which, if he’s town, is a reasonable (if misguided) motivation. On December 10 2012 11:03 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:56 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:44 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 10:07 Djodref wrote:On December 10 2012 10:01 debears wrote:On December 10 2012 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote:
Whatever happened to people going "LOL" after a video like in the olden days? Ikr Anyways Djo the video was a response to the question, but a fun way of doing it Have you not seen the Matrix? Did you not watch the video? Yes, I guess you were saying that your vote was not real with the video. What was your motivation with your first vote on thrawn ? What is your real take on thrawn fakeclaim ? To get the voting rally started of course. Break the ice sonAnd it's strange. It would make no sense from a town perspective. His PM can't tell him he's a miller, because they aren't self aware. So from town - he was joking and he knew millers weren't self aware. Just did it for shits and giggles scum - he claimed miller without checking first. I just don't see a scum being that reckless, but i'm sure if he's town he'll put in a productive day 1. Or, he could've knew someone would interpret him as a joking townie if he's scum. and the wifomwifomwfiom I'm the first to vote in the voting thread So you see thrawn as a joking town or a reckless scum (less likely) or scum using WIFOM. Okay... I personally can see a motivation for a town player to fakeclaim like this (serious motivation) that would make sense but I'm waiting for him to explain it first so I can check it matches my expectation or not. At the exception of thrawn, do you have any comment to make on other players in this early game ? Hey Djo can you do us all a favor and type in your vote here when you decide to vote for someone one in the voting thread. It would help out alot and i rather not have to check it till the end of the day. The thing that I don’t like about this post isn’t even that it’s self defeating in the fact that Djo had, in fact, voted in the game thread...which shows that he’s not only not reading the thread, but is closely watching the voting thread...the opposite of what he’d have you believe in the post quoted above. It’s not that. Look at what Djo is saying. He’s saying he believes thrawn was joking too, and is asking someone about their thoughts on anyone else. So he’s ignored my response regarding thrawn. Now he’s insidiously trying to discredit Djo (calling out his not-really-ninja vote in the voting thread) rather than respond to his post requesting discussion outside of thrawn. It all starts to stink like scum pushing an agenda to me. Especially considering, in spite of all of this... On December 11 2012 04:43 jaybrundage wrote:On December 11 2012 01:35 Clarity_nl wrote:On December 11 2012 01:32 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 23:52 Clarity_nl wrote:Hey marv, you've explain why we shouldn't vote a bunch of people (thrawn, jay, palmar) but do you have any reasons we should vote a someone? On December 10 2012 22:04 marvellosity wrote:
On jay, I'm ok on how he explained his 'slips'. My only worry with jay is that he comes across as overly... compliant?:
"Glad someone is reading my posts. I felt like i wasnt get any feedback from them."
"I do appreciate you giving your reasoning behind your claim. It helps me understand you a bit."
I don't particularly think much of it atm, was just weird when I was reading them. I would say it was indicative of the fact he didn't want to ruffle feathers, but he's not been afraid to put himself out there, so it isn't that. His response reminds me of my own scum game. I showed no emotion that game, I just tried to remain logical and not to ruffle anyone's feathers, thinking that if I kept that up eventually people would stay away from me because I answered every question and reasoned away any doubt. @ JayI read some of the stuff in your linked games, and yes you lyched town D1 but I never saw you say anything remotely close to "well I guess I should be more careful of early bandwagons". Not during any of the games and not in the pre-games or post-games either. The thing is, you say you don't want to jump on an "easy bandwagon" this game, but you do. All you don't do is you haven't voted for thrawn, but he's the only person you've put pressure on. So why mention it? It's an easy way out. It seems like common sense. If I get on easy bandwagons as town. Shouldn't i avoid em? Im not you I don't find it necessary or needed to call people dumb or idiots like some players here do. It is it that unexpected to show some respect to people : / I call people dumb or idiots? So other than Thrawn, who is an easy bandwagon to you so should be avoided, who stands out as scummy? I didnt mean you specifically but some people in TL mafia do. I actually am starting to lean more neutral on Thrawn. In my early mind set I just couldnt see someone misclaiming as a joke, or risk getting them selves lynched. Im a little worried about our lurkers. And i would prefer to see more posts out of ZBoston. Specifically ZBoston what do you think about Claritys case on me and some people soft defending me. Also MunkE has had like 3 posts since his /in and every single one of them is mostly about WBG statistic. Do we really have to nitpick over something like that. WBG was mostly trying to bait Palmar out. Lets hear your thoughts on some cases On Vivax its odd. He seems really interested in going after Thrawns claim and saying that Ve defended it as a joke. When its not a joke. Even when thrawn said his self it was just a joke. That he stubbornly. Refused to explain to generate discussion. I think he is concentrating on thrawns little joke to much to the exclusion of everything else. I can see him being scum. ##Vote Vivax(Because some people get SOOOOO antsy if you dont follow your argument with your vote.) ....HE TAKES IT ALL BACK ANYWAY! That's right, after the whole song and dance about being SOO FRUSTRATED with how he wasn't being paid attention to, and how his motivations only make sense from scum perspective, and in the face of people he has SPECIFICALLY asked their opinion of disagreeing with him, and EVERYTHING....he takes it all back anyway. Because thrawn said it was a joke and it was to generate discussion. Cool. Die. ##Unvote: Vivax
##Vote: jaybrundageI'm going to go reread Vivax now and see if I still think he's scum. This changes things, because I had intended to spend this time writing a case on Vivax...but after reading the votecount and realizing that this jayb wagon was for real, I thought I'd check into him first. I'm glad I did, but now jaybrundage is voting for Vivax as well. We'll see what a reread brings. This is a huge derail if I've ever seen one... VE you have nothing to comment on Tunkeg or anyone other than jay? On December 11 2012 16:24 jaybrundage wrote:
Hm so the "easy" bandwagon rolls. I finished watching palmars video ( YOU'RE video was educational to say the least) although YOUR in need of a better way to record video it got really pixely when you scrolled. ha ha suck my grammar.
In response to my badly thought out posts. I was trying to put pressure on thrawn to explain his reasoning. While my threats may not of been great I did eventually got thrawn to explain himself. Its odd people say that I was going back and forth with my view of thrawn. And honestly i didnt know what the hell he was. However i did think it was anti town. But enough of that. Tmw i will reread some of the cases and give my thoughts on which one i will support.
However if i do get lynched which seems likely i would ask people whats the next step when i flip town. But ill do my best to prevent that from happening. I'm curious, did you capitalize "you're" and "your" to demonstrate how much you don't understand how to use the two? :p + Show Spoiler +haha I just found that really funny for some reason So you want me to do dumb things is that what you are saying. I know you treat this game like a schooldebate, where winning the arguement is more important than actually being right. And I know you like to twist and turn stuff to make your arguements look good. But that don't fly with me, stick to facts (like: Tunkeg is not playing exactly like he did in this and this game), don't try to strengthen your arguements with lies (Like you now saying you think I was scumhunting in those games, when you clearly stated how useless it was back then). If you stick with what is true you should be able to lynch me if I were scum. If you start presenting lies and twisting words you might get me lynched even though I am town.
You WERE scumhunting in those games.
You were also doing stupid shit, but that has nothing to do with it. I'm not lying at all. However you've done nothing to prove that you are town this game. You just complain about my case and yet you still have no reads.
I've shown conclusively that on d1 as town you have concrete reads. This game you have none and you clearly have no intention of coming up with them any time soon. There is no evidence to suggest that you've simply decided to change your gameplay all of a sudden either, and your entire defense hinges on that point. If there is a recent game that suggests this, I am all open to read it. However, the fact that you complain in this manner is highly suggestive that you are scum.
To everyone else:
If you're not voting Tunkeg, Adam, or Munk-E today I want to hear why and I want to also convince you that you should move your vote. Preferably, to Tunkeg.
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also I love how Tunkeg treats me like town when he responds to me, as if he already knows my alignment.
hehehehehehehehe
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On December 11 2012 17:36 Tunkeg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 17:26 wherebugsgo wrote:
also I love how Tunkeg treats me like town when he responds to me, as if he already knows my alignment.
hehehehehehehehe I am not treating you like town. I am saying you are capable of getting me lynched regardless of allignment. And imo it is your "debatish" attitude towards the game that have given you a reputation for being a strong scumplayer. Your way of misrepresenting facts and winning arguements when being wrong helps you as scum, but is not that great when you are town. Either way you are wrong here, I am town, so you are either scum deliberatly trying to misrepresent the facts, or town overeager to win the arguement and not seeing the truth.
look at me, I'm tunkeg, I'm going to continue to do nothing but discredit the case!
If you want to prove that you're town, find scum. Otherwise, go die.
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On December 11 2012 18:44 Palmar wrote:
So yeah, the more I read the more I'm convinced that this is the correct route to take.
##Vote Adam4167
Everything about his game seems slightly off, and I think it's the better lynch between him and Jay.
In fact, I think my other lynch options at this point would be WBG or Djodref (who has basically disappeared).
yeah I'm fine with killing Adam if Tunkeg isn't getting lynched.
I'd prefer Tunkeg obviously but Adam's #2 on my list.
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also wtf on scumread on me
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On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote:Well you did do dumb shit twice now a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it. b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute. So don't act all surprised.
Bro I tried to kill you cause you were 80% scum. Bro.
As for thrawn I'm just tired of stupid shit. Every game it's something new and stupider.
Neither of these things is a reason to call me scum, so don't be surprised when I call you out on your bullshit.
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On December 11 2012 19:26 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 19:24 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 19:14 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2012 19:11 wherebugsgo wrote:
also wtf on scumread on me Well you did do dumb shit twice now a) trying to kill thrawn for something that probably is just an idiot townie move and you know it. b) trying to kill me for doing something I think I even mentioned doing before the game, even after I told you exactly when and how I would contribute. So don't act all surprised. Bro I tried to kill you cause you were 80% scum. Bro. As for thrawn I'm just tired of stupid shit. Every game it's something new and stupider. Neither of these things is a reason to call me scum, so don't be surprised when I call you out on your bullshit. I'm not your bro dude.
I knew you'd be annoyed by that, bro 
On December 11 2012 19:48 Palmar wrote: It's happened before, scum have fucked up and claimed miller on day 1.
To expand on this, there was once a game where a scum player claimed vigi, and then later claimed that the red check on him might be due to him being a miller. This was not possible setup-wise, yet a lot of people let him off the hook.
Scum fuck up just as much as townies do, but when you do it on purpose as a townie you're just inviting chaos. I don't understand why townies keep fucking making these fake claims as "plays" when they end up being bad almost every single time.
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On December 11 2012 20:54 Palmar wrote:
I'll admit that I find it easier to roll with the crowd wanting to lynch adam (myself, debears, marv) than with the crowd wanting to lynch jay (djodref, bluelightz, VE etc). It's a ridiculously dangerous game trying to guess someone's alignment based on the actions of others (the people voting him), but I just like the Adam lynch a whole lot better.
Did you know that if I had to guess the scum team right now I would probably shoot for this team:
Bugs
Djodref
Adam
VE
But that doesn't change the fact I might be off base, and the case against Jay is a good one, so maybe that's where we need to go.
But meh, this is what I want to do, I want to kill adam.
first of all, no one is asking you to guess the scumteam right now, and second of all, your guesses seem pretty fucking bad.
VE is at best a null for me, I'm not scum, and I'm almost certain Djo is not either.
I'm surprised you don't find Tunkeg scummy. In fact, since you're so hardline against Adam and you've more or less ignored Tunkeg, I have my doubts about your alignment. It's pretty fucking shady that you don't even consider the case against Tunkeg.
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On December 11 2012 21:21 Palmar wrote:
Out of curiosity, if you had to guess right now, what would your guess be?
not like it really matters, but probably:
Tunkeg
Adam
Munk-E
one of ZB/VE/you/BL
I feel very strongly that among the first 3 there are at least 2 scum. I don't think I am wrong about more than one of them, because Tunkeg + Adam in particular don't play like this as town from what I know.
On December 11 2012 22:09 marvellosity wrote:
And also, hi bugs.
How are you 'almost certain' Djo isn't scum?
I don't think mafia would so openly confront someone over a play like Djo did. His tone and willingness to question and probe is really towny to me. Ex:
On December 10 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 10 2012 10:37 jaybrundage wrote:On December 10 2012 10:33 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:28 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:24 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 10 2012 10:19 Adam4167 wrote:On December 10 2012 09:57 thrawn2112 wrote:
any answer I could possibly give would just betray the actual purpose behind that post, making whatever I hoped to accomplish with that post no longer possible I think you better try to explain what you were hoping to accomplish here. On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea I find this post sits in a stark contrast to your current play, and this is from one of your recent town games (ACME). What's the stark contrast? I don't see how these things are even related. Are you trying to suggest I'm scum? because you went about it pretty subtly. Town you from ACME says that you disagree with the idea of millers claiming, and that you don't even know what your thought process would be for deciding if its real or not. Why are you trying to put everyone else in a similar position of confusion? If I wanted to call you scum, I would have. What I want to know is why you are doing what you are doing. That's not even the issue. How am I putting anyone in a compromising decision about whether or not to believe the claim when millers aren't even self aware? I don't understand what accusation you're trying to make, it makes no sense in the context of what the OP has to say about millers. Dude... Its not whether we believe you. Your lying simple. Not a single persons believes your claim its about why are you lying. For no damn reason. And what purpose would town have to do that. It only makes sense from a mafia perspective I disagree with you, I see more town motivation than mafia motivation for fakeclaiming like that. But I would really like thrawn to explain his motivation by himself at first.
He wants to find out thrawn's motivations so he votes him despite thinking that thrawn's actions were townish. I don't see many scum who are willing to put so much attention on themselves in this manner. Think about it: it opens Djo up to the "you're voting someone you have a townread on?" attack, and it's completely obvious. I'm certain scum would at the very least word their posts more carefully or not actually confront the player in such a manner at all.
Secondly, when he pushes jay as a lynch, he ACTUALLY pushes it. I don't see scum doing that either. They often don't actively try to convince people to join them in killing someone. Sure, he might be good as scum, but we then have to ask why he would be so concerned with my vote and where it's going. Things like this:
On December 10 2012 16:28 Djodref wrote:
@ WBG
If I take your word for jay and assume that you are not scum yourself, I'd say that I don't have huge concerns about anyone at the beginning of this game. Why did you single out Palmar among all the people who didn't participate yet ?
What about Bluelight, Z-Bo, Munk-E, Vivax and Tunkeg ? All of them scum by elimination ?
Indicate that Djo is reading the thread and at the very least concerned about people giving half-assed reasons to vote people. I didn't really have a great reason to vote Palmar and he called me out on it. Pretty townie reaction IMO.
He also doesn't let bullshit fly:
On December 11 2012 12:47 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 04:23 Tunkeg wrote:
*snip*
I am also abit concerned about Djodref, I think he is posting alot, but his posts are very fluffy. I haven't played with him before, is this his style or?
@ TunkegYou can find all my previous games on these forums in my profile. I don't like the way you are saying I'm fluffy and scummy, without really backing it up with a case or at least some quotes. You are just discrediting me for free here.
If you think Djo is scum, then you have to assume he is very very good at hiding his intentions. I just don't see scum acting the way he has acted so far.
He's also far too active IMO to be a day 1 lynch consideration.
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On December 11 2012 22:29 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 22:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 22:20 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2012 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hi Palmar.
Taking Adam out, do you prefer Jay over Tunkeg or vice versa? Jay Is there something you've seen from Tunkeg that suggests to you he is town? Not really, but I think clarity's analysis of Jay's play so far is much more likely to hit home than bugs's meta read on Tunkeg. I agree that I wish Tunkeg would play differently, but I can't really lynch everyone who doesn't play like I want them to.
cool, you want to lynch probably the easiest mislynch on TL mafia over someone who clearly does not care about scumhunting.
Not to mention, the strongest part of my case isn't the meta, it's the fact that Tunkeg is completely indifferent to the events of the game.
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On December 11 2012 22:34 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 11 2012 22:31 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 11 2012 22:29 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2012 22:21 marvellosity wrote:On December 11 2012 22:20 Palmar wrote:On December 11 2012 22:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hi Palmar.
Taking Adam out, do you prefer Jay over Tunkeg or vice versa? Jay Is there something you've seen from Tunkeg that suggests to you he is town? Not really, but I think clarity's analysis of Jay's play so far is much more likely to hit home than bugs's meta read on Tunkeg. I agree that I wish Tunkeg would play differently, but I can't really lynch everyone who doesn't play like I want them to. cool, you want to lynch probably the easiest mislynch on TL mafia over someone who clearly does not care about scumhunting. Not to mention, the strongest part of my case isn't the meta, it's the fact that Tunkeg is completely indifferent to the events of the game. Only when presented with these two options, remember Marv's question implied I could only pick one or the other. Don't try to twist my words into something they're not. We agree that Adam is most likely scum, so let's do this? I mean marv thinks he's scum too, that's a lot of big names who think Adam is scum. What are we waiting for?
I'm not twisting shit. You said you like jay over tunkeg, which is indicative that you're not reading the thread. I just don't understand how you can find jay scummier than tunkeg. It's like we're not playing the same game.
Have you never played with jay before?! How do you not understand how easy of a mislynch he is?
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EPT
