EPTHero Mini Mafia - Page 14
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm going to be focusing on other things today, and I want to wait for any potential NK's tonight before I start typing up cases. I'm pretty confused by Jay flipping town, and finding the other two scum is going to take some concerted effort. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Therefore, ##Vote: No-Lynch | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 22 2012 08:29 Z-BosoN wrote: @Hapa Some questions regarding this post I recall from your filter. On #1, why is lynching jay nonsensical from a mafia perspective? I mean, sure, we all thought he was scum at the time, but regardless, I don't see what you mean there. Being a bus or being a mislynch, why did you reason it didn't make sense at that time? On #4, what exactly in VE's scumlist post made you think otherwise regarding jay's pants-on-head read? I remember you saying how jay was super-cordial with someone trying to lynch him or something like that, but can you be more specific on this? On #1 - I thought jay was going to flip mafia. Especially after his defense, I couldn't see him flipping town. My point there was that I (as "scum" hapa) wouldn't bus my scumbuddy like that. Clearly this goes out the window. On #4 - I think I was plenty specific: On December 18 2012 13:16 Hapahauli wrote: I just rediscovered this post. I hope this is not some massive WIFOM bomb planned by VE, but the interaction between VE and Jay makes absolutely no sense with this list. VE was super-cordial with Jay's attempts to save him. Jay is far too trusting of a guy who was trying to get him lynched. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Anyway, my time right now needs to be spent reading filters rather than defending myself. With this I'll take my leave. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 18 2012 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote: It's useless jay...thx though. <3 Town needs this. They need this to see just how wrong Palmar can be WHILE trying. People have this notion that he's infallible, that he's never wrong. This game will serve as an excellent example in later games, if nothing else. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Vote Hapahauli So here's the deal I want to make with you guys. The self-vote is to motivate myself to find the last two scum-team members. Make of it what you will. I realize I haven't been as active in this game. So I'm going to make up for it tonight. As far as I'm concerned, it's my job right now to convince you who the other two scumteam members are. I'm not going to be defending myself. I'll be building cases. Place your votes on me, and it will be my job to convince you otherwise. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Shortly before the N2 deadline, you posted a response to Palmar detailing your reads on the entire playerbase. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=99#1976 Notable from this post: ... VE - the posts he HAS made have consistently made me lean town on this guy. His out and out dumbness on various issues (adam reads post, clarity) are strongly reminiscent of his town play. The problem is what he HASN'T posted. I'd be ok with him if in between the pants-on-head there was VE trying to figure out play. It doesn't seem that way. He could be time-constrained or whatever, but actually I respect VE enough that i expect more of SOMETHING from him and I haven't had it, so I'm thinking scum right now. ... You were thinking scum on VE, and then one of your first posts on Day 3: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=103#2059 Nice job there. jay managed to 'look town' to some of us here during day 1, and has basically ridden that all the way through the game. There's constant admissions that he's not doing anything, promises to do more... but we never actually get anything. Scum again. Right now then I'm looking at Djodref, Hapahauli. jaybrundage. Thoughts guys? You then attack my rationale for defending VE... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=104#2070 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=104#2072 And then... On December 17 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote: Screw this. We'll see what Hapa comes up with later and if I have to phone post to change votes or whatever then that's what I'll have to do ##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes So my questions to you: 1) Why did you vote VE, when you were looking at myself, Djo, and Jay as the scumteam? 2) Can you walk us through your thought process on N2/D3 in regards to your suspicions? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Around the time that VE claimed cop, you took a rather exasperated stance on things: On December 18 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote: Z-Bo has gone according to his last post, i assume he's referring to what i pasted here. i fucking hate this. none of his play is townie, but i hate lynching uncounterclaimed DTs. djfnsdk I think we have to lynch him and hope he doesn't flip DT or we feel very stupid In this post, it seems very clear that you're not thrilled about the idea of lynching VE and are pretty torn on things. 4 minutes later... On December 18 2012 09:33 marvellosity wrote: pretty sure it's VE/jay right now On December 18 2012 09:40 marvellosity wrote: Hapa, you've missed the point. it sets up perfectly jay is scum with VE. jay hard-opposes VE's lynch at VE's orders two results: 1) jay averts the VE lynch 2) jay doesn't avert the VE lynch but everyone goes "omg, scum would NEVER do that, it's SO blates!" winwin for scumjay What I found odd about this was both your explanation and the turn-around time. You go from uneasy to extremely convinced by the actions of a player that wasn't VE. More odd is what's missing in your analysis - nowhere do you describe why VE/Jay scumteam is more likely than the alternative (Jay = stupid town). You simply state that VE/Jay is scum because this grand plan could have happened. Bonus: On December 18 2012 09:51 marvellosity wrote: again, this is why it would be a good play and it'd be fucking VE orchestrating it. And it's the fact that intelligent people against you fight against the idea that make it good. On December 18 2012 09:51 marvellosity wrote: *intelligent people like you This post is odd considering the context of the game. On Day 3, I was presumably one of your top scumreads (you had your vote on me earlier in the day), and yet the bolded statement seems to imply that I'm town. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
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Hapahauli
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Firstly, his veteran claim is very risky from a scum perspective. There's a high chance that there are 4 blues in this game. Given that he claimed veteran, he would risk a lot of pressure on himself had a 5th blue counterclaimed. No one has done so, and the risk/reward of such a fake-claim suggests that Marv is town. In addition, there are too many easy opportunities he has turned down to be scum. He could have very easily pushed the BL lynch and come out fine from it. In addition, of all the players he seemed the most concerned about finding out Djo's alignment and objectively considering things. Finally, he's been the most hesitant to jump on my lynch out of the players. As a last point, I'm coming away from his interaction with Tunkeg (page 11 of his filter) as pretty authentic: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953&user=140487¤tpage=11 I'm not sure why marv is alive right now, but his play shows far too much correlation with his town play (and not nearly enough with his scum-play) for him to be scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Firstly, let's take a quote from VE himself: On December 14 2012 15:40 VisceraEyes wrote: ZBoson sure likes shoveling shit at people he has no interest in lynching. From D1: + Show Spoiler [Vivax] + On December 11 2012 04:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Yea, vivax's post seems too much like "look at me trying hard to scumhunt" The lack of follow-up also worries me. Never follows up on this. + Show Spoiler [debears] + On December 11 2012 04:17 Z-BosoN wrote: @debears I see you've got some Adam going on for ya. I think you are getting too riled up over expecting someone to go balls out on a day one suspicion. You, for example, are not nearly as spammy as your day one self. I don't think this aligns with your townie play, but I don't think it necessarily makes you scummy. I am curious to hear from adam his stance on thrawn, as he seemed to have dropped it.. Defends Adam here as an added bonus. + Show Spoiler [wherebugsgo] + On December 11 2012 04:18 Z-BosoN wrote: That won't do. Why did you say 80% chance yatta yatta here? Why not give the explanation you gave later on when ppl started asking questions? I don't even know what the relevance is here. Bugs percentage is completely arbitrary anyway. + Show Spoiler [Munk-E] + On December 11 2012 04:50 Z-BosoN wrote: It's Z-Boson. It's funny you should mention Munk-E, because he has a town read on WBG, even though he disagrees with WBG's logic. Does anyone find this post right here: Any close to being normal? He then votes for Djodref after making a big case, only to drop it and vote for Tunkeg. Interestingly enough, he does so in the name of consolidation, yet is one of the only people not on the Adam wagon. He can say he thought Adam was town all he wants: he only unvoted Djodref in the name of consolidation though, and consolidate he did not. He pushed a counter-wagon. And if he wanted to do that, he could have stayed on Djodref. ##Unvote: Clarity_nl ##Vote: ZBoson While it feels funny to use the case of a flipped scum, it's a shockingly accurate description of Z-Boson's gameplay so far. He makes a bunch of huge cases on several players. While this is fine, Z-Boson rather shockingly never gives a town read for all of D1! He also never attempts to even defend a player (other than Adam, whom he once indirectly defends by "preferring" a Tunkeg lynch). Now giving town-reads isn't a scum-tell or town-tell one way or the other. However, not giving any town reads ALL of Day 1 is a bit... sketch. It matches a scum motivation of wanting to spread suspicion in the thread. Half-Hearted Bus of VE On N2, Z-Boson posts... On December 16 2012 10:32 Z-BosoN wrote: vivax. Yep that's it. Doesn't follow up on this read at all. He also attacks me for changing my mind on VE: On December 17 2012 10:21 Z-BosoN wrote: @marv It's interesting you mention Hapa. I also noted his change of mind on VE, and Hapa's usually not one to sheep like that. I look forward to his defense. @Djo I like how you are actually trying. One question though, why post a BL case right after making a case on your main suspect? However, Z-Boson's first post of Day 3: On December 17 2012 12:07 Z-BosoN wrote: Okay, I'm down to lynching VE. I don't like how he disappeared and hasn't really responded to anything. He doesn't seem interested in the game AT ALL. If you guys recall, we hadn't interacted at all up until he noted my "scumslip". He then made his "case" on me: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=81#1607 And parked his vote on me. This came at a time when I had some pressure on me. I agree a lot with Djo's point on how he is really just going with the flow. Note how his play is in complete contrast with his game on Liquid City. When he found me to be scum, he spent quite some time interacting with me, prodding around asking other people (BC) what they thought of me, etc. He then gave some attention elsewhere when I wasnt getting any traction. Take a look at the interaction that begins in the last 4-5 posts of this page: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=117978¤tpage=8 And some in the next page as well. This game it's complete and utter crap. He gives a crap reason (that basically surmounts to: I'm prodding people everywhere) and doesnt push me, doesnt do shit. He parks his vote on me and keeps it there, saying later just how he'd be down to lynch me. Doesn't ask other people what they think of me, doesn't try to push his "scum read". There's also that whole Palmar wants him dead thing. I'm curious to see what his next move is. Yep Z-Boson wants to lynch VE after not talking about him the ENTIRE game. The only time I can find Z-Boson talking about VE in his entire filter is this post - an end-of-the-night "in case I die" post in which he leaves us with zero substantial conclusions: ... tl;dr
I didn't proof read, but tried to make it easier to understand as I was writing this. Let me know what you guys think. So Z-Boson parks his vote on Jay for the entire day after wanting to lynch VE. At the VE counter claim, Z-Boson is initially super-hesitant, and wants to lynch annnnyone but VE: On December 18 2012 07:50 Z-BosoN wrote: I gotta leave in 30 min If no one counters I'm gonna leave my vote on Jay I think On December 18 2012 08:02 Z-BosoN wrote: I'd much rather lynch jay, but hapa I think also has good chances of popping scum On December 18 2012 08:27 Z-BosoN wrote: This looks like liquid city all over again. But when it's clear that VE is going to be lynched and time is running out (15 minutes before the flip), LOLNOPE, YOU'RE SCUM VE!! LOLOLOLOL On December 18 2012 08:44 Z-BosoN wrote: Ok, guys, VE's play is in total fucking contrast of his townie game. Palmar is almost sure he's scum. He has no crumb. Even in LC mafia he had some sort of crumb. His push on me makes no fucking sense from a townie perspective. Refer to Liquid City mafia. It's risky for a cop to counter-claim right now, he'll get nked with little chance to actually investigate. Everything points to VE being scum. The alternative to that is a no-lynch, which gets us nowhere. I have to go right now, so I'll take his bluff. ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
##Vote Z-Boson | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On December 18 2012 07:50 Z-BosoN wrote: I gotta leave in 30 min If no one counters I'm gonna leave my vote on Jay I think I initially took this quote to mean that Z-Boson had his vote parked on Jay. This is not the case... whoops. Z-Boson didn't vote until 12 minutes before the deadline, when he parked his vote on VE. Regardless of the vote, the case should demonstrate how scummy his deadline actions were. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Unfortunately I'm not scum, but I'll take a look at that monster and see if I think you're town from it. | ||
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