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debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 03 2012 23:18 GMT
#1246
I just don't see it bugs...

1) You hard defend someone you have a strong town read on
2) You let them die over someone you aren't sure about (DP over DYH)
3) Your town read gets lynched and you flip out on town although you did literally nothing in terms of
a) providing evidence he was town
b) being there at the lynch to sway votes off of him

Doesn't make no sense. I'm truly sorry if you are town, but I don't see a town perspective in this situation. I really don't
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 03 2012 23:55 GMT
#1253
On December 04 2012 08:18 debears wrote:
I just don't see it bugs...

1) You hard defend someone you have a strong town read on
2) You let them die over someone you aren't sure about (DP over DYH)
3) Your town read gets lynched and you flip out on town although you did literally nothing in terms of
a) providing evidence he was town
b) being there at the lynch to sway votes off of him

Doesn't make no sense. I'm truly sorry if you are town, but I don't see a town perspective in this situation. I really don't


Can someone other not named bugs plz give me some input on the case + this train of thought?
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 03 2012 23:55 GMT
#1254
or named DYH for that matter
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 04:31 GMT
#1311
On December 04 2012 11:20 Blazinghand wrote:
Ok, WBG I'm putting as a scumread.
.


debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 04:39 GMT
#1313
On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.

Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why?

I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself.


Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier?

He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 04:44 GMT
#1314
On December 04 2012 13:35 DoYouHas wrote:
I'm actually liking a WBG lynch less as this goes on, not more.


Well, I find BH town. I am town.

And I find WBG scummy as shit.

What does that =?

lynch WBG of coarse
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 04:58 GMT
#1316
On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:
On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:
On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.

Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why?

I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself.


Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier?

He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me

I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now.

As for Lazer:

Show nested quote +
On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?


Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that.


Keir, this question is very important in terms of BH imo.

Why would he not keep his vote on the claimed vig last second before lynch?

Town - Not lynch a possible vig

Scum - Gain town cred by lettting the Vig live
Give town a confirmed town member after the shot
Having the vig possibly hit a scum (which, if DYH is vig, he did)
Be under pressure for lynching another townie

I just don't see scum giving town a confirmed vig like that. Now, they have to nk DYH after the lynch
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 05:33 GMT
#1324
On December 04 2012 14:08 Keirathi wrote:
@debears:

What do you think about ShiaoPi?


Here's the problem I run into: ShiaoPi is no pillar of townieness

But, WBG has his vote on him. WBG used bad reasoning (picked out one thing VE did in VE's whole filter and said "yeah this is the main reason why ShiaoPi is scum". I'm pretty sure WBG is scum and his reasoning for voting ShiaoPi doesn't make sense

Could be:

scum voting scum
town voting scum
scum voting town
town voting town

I doubt it's option number 1 at this point. And I don't see number 4 as likely

So it leaves me with the middle two

So, that means that ShiaoPi is town in my eyes right now based off the fact I believe WBG is scum

:/

I gots some heavy critical thinking to do
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 05:35 GMT
#1325
On December 04 2012 14:32 Keirathi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 04 2012 14:11 Xatalos wrote:
On December 04 2012 13:51 Keirathi wrote:
On December 04 2012 13:39 debears wrote:
On December 04 2012 12:56 Keirathi wrote:
On December 04 2012 12:52 DoYouHas wrote:
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.

Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why?

I agree with the premise of it. There almost certainly was at least one scum on the DP vote. I personally still think BH is that scum because of my meta case, but I can understand why people don't believe so because of his unvote. And I do have a town read on debears myself.


Why isn't laser scummy? Or why is BH scummier?

He (laser) hasn't been active today. It's pretty alarming to me

I've said multiple times why I think BH is scummy. Even ignoring the roleblock thing, look at my meta case on him. BH hasn't been interacting with people, trying to get them to talk about his scum reads. He just throws a name and case out there, argues with that person, then moves on when its pertinent, and I don't think switching votes from one townie to the other at the last second, when BH's scum meta is to be trolly and 'suboptimal', makes up for that. But other people aren't buying it, so I've stopped trying to push him for now.

As for Lazer:

On December 02 2012 06:15 Lazermonkey wrote:
Austin! You've been posting suspicion on several players now but are yet to cast a vote. Who is, in your opinion, top second etc scum read?


Particularly that post gave me a townie feel. This was after his big fight with DP, and calling Zealos out. Why would scum LM then, seeing austin doing something that could be considered "scummy", engage him by trying to get him to give reads and start discussion? It would make much more sense for scum LM to just call out austin and leave it at that.


Ugh, this game is making my head hurt. There are both towny and scummy traits in almost every filter. What worries me most about Lazermonkey is his lack of presence in the thread (I can't even remember his stance on ANYTHING from the top of my head). But looking at his filter again, I agree with many things he says and I don't get the feeling he's playing scummy WHEN he's playing. Then I looked at DYH's reasoning for voting Lazermonkey and I agree that Lazermonkey is the best Mafia candidate of those who voted DP to be lynched (especially since Lazermonkey's vote was such a weird OMGUS vote out of thin air). I'd really like other people's opinions on Lazermonkey right now.

If his lack of presence is the most worrying thing, why Lazer over Zealos, who hasn't done a goddamn thing?

Lazer might have OMGUS voted DP, but that's at least SOMETHING. Zealos was a non-factor day 1 and day 2.


Yeah, and there's the problem.

2 guys not doing shit. Include sandroba in that list. Hasn't done much either :/

What are the odds that one of the 3 non contributors are scum at this point? Hard to say
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 05:36 GMT
#1326
I thought BH had his vote on WBG
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:01 GMT
#1376
On December 04 2012 20:11 Lazermonkey wrote:
BH I see you got a town read on ShiaoPi. Or at least not a scum read as of yet. Like I said earlier, I think his interactions with VE aren't very telling because VE could've tricked us hard anyway. However, as I wrote in my case earlier, what do you think about the fact that he basically always have been attacking the person that is under the most pressure, always jumping off the person when there are noone left chasing him? And I also don't think his reasons for chasing these persons have been super strong. Long story short, I have scum reads on both Shiao and WBG, why should I vote WBG over Shiao?


WBG is way scummier of course.

Lazer read my case on him. Then read BH's case.

Way better than any ShiaoPi case out there
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:05 GMT
#1377
On December 04 2012 22:08 Lazermonkey wrote:
EBWOP: Obviously that isn't always the case. If someone is suuuper scummy D1 and then gets replaced you want to look into the replacement alot. But I don't think that is the case with Ace.


Ace was trying to shut me down hard everytime I made some sort of substantial comment. There is no town motive in that whatsoever
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:10 GMT
#1379
On December 04 2012 23:47 sandroba wrote:
Adressing points on debears case:
1) WBG defended DP, but didn't care DYH was lynched.
I would have mislynched DYH 100% D1 if not for his vigi claim. As I've stated before I thought his case on xatalos was utter bullshit and was very convinced of this guy being scum before replacing in. It doesn't surprise me that WBG didn't care if DYH got lynched instead of DP, which he had a town read on. Now as to why he didn't push DYH instead of going for marv I don't know, but I have to admit that marv's claim was pretty sketchy and I had to think real hard before determining he was likely town. "I am DT" in the middle of D1 with slight pressure on him, followed by "I might not be sane" after people start unvoting him looks suspicious as fuck, specially when you are biased because the dude is being a dick in the thread. For mafia it would make way more sense and be way easier to simply ignore marv and try to get into one of the main alternate wagons. Since you say WBG had no qualms lynching DYH why would he not as mafia simply jump on his wagon instead of trying to get marv lynched. Surely you can imagine the backlash he would suffer once marv flipped DT.

2)Vote on marv
I adressed this on the block above.

3)Bunch of random facts
stating facts and saying that they are scummy does not make it so. 'nuff said

4)bunch of random facts
see above

5) Meta comparison to mad men
I thought he was mafia on mad men. I then learned he wasn't. Your comparison is good for proving he is likely town this game though. You see, wbg and erandor had a much closer relationship than you-him. WBG expected erandor to identify he is town and got pissed off and raged in the thread. Simillar to how he expects better of marv and raged in the thread/assumed he was scum for playing like shit D1. The fact that he didn't adress your points can be explained by how he doesn't know your play/doesn't expect much from you and sees no needs to adress a case that has no traction. I doesn't mean he is auto mafia for ignoring you, sorry.

6) claims meta is the same even if you say it isn't
yes. so?


exactly
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:17 GMT
#1380
I really don't know how you guys can't see the scum motive in

1) Hard defending someone day 1
2) Flipping shit on the town when he gets lynched

when

1) you weren't there for the lynch (playing DOTA of all things)
2) You had your vote parked on someone who wasn't getting lynched
3) The other person up for lynch was one vote away
4) you had a null read on the 2nd lynch candidate
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:17 GMT
#1381
^^^

add 5) you had a strong town read on the leading lynch candidate
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:39 GMT
#1383
On December 02 2012 07:40 wherebugsgo wrote:
why does it matter, prplhz thought he was dying just like you.

scum do whatever they want to live when they think they're gonna die


On December 02 2012 07:45 Hopeless1der wrote:
Day 1 Votecount


Xatalos (1)
Blazinghand, DoYouHas, VisceraEyes, Zealos

DoYouHas (1)
Xatalos, debears, MrZentor, MrZentor

marvellosity (2)
Ace, Blazinghand, wherebugsgo, debears, MrZentor, Blazinghand, Ace

Lazermonkey (1)
wherebugsgo, DarthPunk

DarthPunk (6)<---- Gonna get lynched
BlazingHand, Blazinghand, Lazermonkey, marvellosity, Blazinghand, VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, debears

Blazinghand (1)
Ace, ShiaoPi

Zealos (2)
wherebugsgo, VisceraEyes, Xatalos, austinmcc

Not Voting (1)
Dandel Ion

~15 minutes until deadline
Please notify me of any errors in the votecount


On December 02 2012 08:16 wherebugsgo wrote:
you fucking retards

debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:40 GMT
#1384
Yeah Keir way to read.

Are u sure you aren't scum?
debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 16:49 GMT
#1385
On December 04 2012 08:17 wherebugsgo wrote:
and for the record the reason I wasn't around at lynch time was because I was playing dota.

debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 17:30 GMT
#1387
After his whole day 1, and him flipping out on town, you're going to defend him saying he was frustrated?

He leaves 20 minutes before lynch when a strong town read of his was up for lynch and comes back calling everyone retards?

There is no town motivation for that.

He was not there, he decided for some reason to play dota durjng the lynch out of any time of the day. He couldnt wait 20 minutes? I call bs

debears
Profile Joined September 2012
United States2516 Posts
December 04 2012 17:51 GMT
#1389
I wouldnt disappear and then come back calling everyone retards after the lynch.

Especially when I could save my town read if I was there
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