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On December 01 2012 02:43 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 02:35 austinmcc wrote:
marv, how do you feel about some of his followup to that vote?
Were DYH's comments scummy as shit? Do DYH's comments justify swapping a vote from another player you find scummy as shit, when that vote is only 25 minutes or so old? I've not found DYH's comments scummy, rather I find them quite straightforward and transparent. Regarding the voteswapping it tells me that he doesn't value his vote particularly, although I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from that yet... but... Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:12 debears wrote:
@Austin
Dandel discrediting himself does make sense from a scum perspective. It can make others say "oh he's a noob I shouldn't put too much weight into what he says".
It makes zero sense from a town perspective
Also, on DoYouHas
I'm curious as to why in the fuck he puts such suspicion on Ace and Ace's scumplay when Ace has a higher probability of rolling town than scum (15 players, what 4 scum scum is the norm? so thats 11/15 chance of town, 4/15 for scum). Why does he want to make everyone cautious of him before he even makes any posts?
Also, Marv is good at scum. He's only lost 1 game if I recall correctly. Why not mention marv in there also?
Why is he scared of Ace this early?
That's my reasoning Handily we have him commenting on both players in the same post. On Dandel, we have something that makes zero sense from a town perspective. Whereas on the whole spiel on DYH there is little/no demonstration of why it's a scum mindset over a town mindset. If DYH is town, he could be scared of a master scum Ace. If DYH is scum, he could be scared of a town Ace figuring him out or whatever. Why is one more likely than the other? From reading this post alone it seems like his vote should be on Dandel, not DYH. Over to you, debears.
I actually rethought dandel's "i'm a noob comment". I will refer you to Djo's first newbie as possible town motivations
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On December 01 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote:
you can rethink it all you like, but at the time of your post you believed otherwise.
that doesn't resolve anything as to where your vote was at the time of that post.
As I said, I don't like DoYou's post. I found it scummier. Hence the voteswitch
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@Xatal
I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.
Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part
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On December 01 2012 03:03 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:01 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 03:00 marvellosity wrote:
you can rethink it all you like, but at the time of your post you believed otherwise.
that doesn't resolve anything as to where your vote was at the time of that post. As I said, I don't like DoYou's post. I found it scummier. Hence the voteswitch why was it scummier than something you believed had "zero town motivation" Could you not find even a bit of town motivation in DYH's post?
Although Dandel's post had zero town motivation (at the time), it made little sense for a scum to do it also.
DYH's could be explained by town motivation (not wanting people to sheep) but was way overcast by the scum motivation (make people more wary of following a good player who might be town). Also, I didn't like how he sounded. It gave off a scared town towards Ace.
Why would DYH be scared of Ace?
Why would he be scared of Ace when there are other vets who are most likely town if Ace is scum?
Why does he single out Ace with other good players here?
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@Dandel
What guides have you read from the TL mafia website?
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Marv,
I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question
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On December 01 2012 03:10 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:09 debears wrote:
Marv,
I will wait til answer that when dandel gives me a response to the above question what has dandel's responses got to do with it? you're fundamentally contradicting yourself and that has nothing to do with what dandel responds with...
How about you wait?
It will all become clear soon
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On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not.
Very well. My thought process
Dandel said he's noob in vet game
Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean
Scum - Wants town to ignore him
Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it
On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly)
So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb
Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine)
See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys
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On December 01 2012 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote:##Vote: dabearsFrankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures. The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations. Also this post rings scumbells for me. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:Actually marv I have a slight town read on you Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on. He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it On November 30 2012 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
Hi all.
Totes town ^^ Boom look at that pro analysis. Links in the spoiler + Show Spoiler + Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah?
Hey VE. It's a trend in marv's townplay. It's called meta. You should read up on it
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On December 01 2012 03:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 03:26 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 03:21 Zealos wrote:
Because explaining it could potentially ruin his "plan" which is pretty likely to fail anyway, but we may as well give him the benefit of the doubt with 27ish hours left of the day. Dandel Ion (now DI) said he'd be gone because it's Friday. So we're waiting for a response from someone who explicitly said he wouldn't be here. While it may partially ruin debears' ability to confirm whether DI is doing whatever debears thinks DI is doing, I'm more interested in debears right now than what DI may or may not have been doing yesterday. I'd rather debears explain what he's thinking, not drag his heels and have more time to respond, and be up front about his thoughts. DI can confirm later or not. Very well. My thought process Dandel said he's noob in vet game Town - Refer to Djo's first game if you know what I mean Scum - Wants town to ignore him Ok, so I thought of this: Dandel is a newish player to TL Mafia. Newish players usually read the guides. My whole "saying your noob" read is from Ver's XXX analysis. Which, thinking back, almost everyone I've played with is familiar with it On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) So, I was thinking, with Dandel being a new player, and most likely reading the guide, why would he do that as scum? Most of us would pick up on it. It'd be dumb Also, based on that, it would put him in the spotlight (even if it is just mine) See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys the point is, debears, this 'town' explanation only appeared later and was not present in your mind at the time that you voted for DYH over Dandel. At the time you said there was zero town motivation and yet you moved your vote off him for spurious Ace-related reasons.
Cuz I felt like DYH scummier. I'm sorry scumreads don't come in exact percentages and that they don't stay consistent. They're feel marv. You know that. I felt DYH = scummier, so I voted for him. Enough said
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On December 01 2012 03:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:52 debears wrote:
See why I asked and wanted to wait? Thanks guys No...I don't. Because this came up last night. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) Here's marv mentioning Ver's guide Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 11:22 austinmcc wrote:On November 30 2012 11:08 marvellosity wrote:On November 30 2012 11:01 austinmcc wrote:
Dandel is discrediting himself. You say it doesn't make sense from a town perspective. However, it doesn't make any more sense from a scum perspective.
Simply untrue. Scum have plenty to gain by being ignored. Just take a gander in Ver's guide for an example (Misder possibly) He's not asking to be ignored. This is the chain in which Dandel Ion speaks: On November 30 2012 09:15 Dandel Ion wrote:On November 30 2012 09:13 DarthPunk wrote:On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Wrong. He is a noob. (no offense) you can't read too much into things like that with him. I'm a noob too, and you already lynched me  So inconsistant He says he's a noob. Discrediting was DoYouHas's word I believe, but I'd argue that (1) There can be benefits to scum in lurking (2) What Dandel Ion did (making a post calling himself a noob) =/= lurking To some extent, calling yourself a noob implies that you're going to sit back and let other people do the heavy lifting. But I don't really attribute any kind of purpose to Dandel Ion's post like that, and I don't think it makes sense for scum to point out newness, because iirc every newbie guide says apologies/hiding behind newness = scum. tl;dr I think there's a difference between lurking/being passive/playing to be ignored and Dandel Ion's post. Here's me responding, noting the same thing, that newbie guides keep talking about hiding behind newness as a scum trait. I also have no idea why, if DI's actions didn't make sense as scum, you'd vote him, say he was scummy as shit, and maintain that point of view.
Cuz i rethought it. I'm not maintaining my scumread on Dandel right now. I maintained him as my top one up until the vote on DYH
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On December 01 2012 04:05 austinmcc wrote:
debears,
thoughts on lazermonkey and shiaopi?
lazer - on a quick glance thru he's not in my scummy list
shiaopi - I don't like these two posts together
On November 30 2012 23:35 ShiaoPi wrote:EBWOP: format Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 23:16 ShiaoPi wrote:
I expect sth more thought out. There must have more than just BLs strategy behind it. I expect of xata to be smarter than whathe claims to be. Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further?
On December 01 2012 00:03 ShiaoPi wrote:
Well have fun tunneling further then, cant help you.
Since xata is gone now and nobody besides lazer seems to be here I am going to bed now...
So he makes a statement "why are you trying to stop me", which to me gives off the feeling that he believes lazer is scum. Then, in the next post he does a 180, and disengages "have fun tunneling further", which to me gives off the feel that he finds lazer townie.
If he believed lazer was possibly scum trying to stop questioning, he would keep pursuing it. If he thought not, then he would disengage.
I just don't see how he went from post 1 to post 2 in 50 minutes
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On December 01 2012 04:08 Zealos wrote:
I'll be the first to say it.
I don't think Debears is mafia
Why?
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On December 01 2012 04:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
It rings scummbells anytime someone tries to pass off BS as actual analysis. You honestly can't see Mafia motivation for having town believe he did something worthwhile when he really didn't do anything?
Do you see me screaming to the rooftops about that?
No, i made one post on it.
The "look at the pro anaylsis" was sarcastic. Dude
It's a trend, and it's notable enough to give me something to work off of. Nothing major
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##Unvote
Well DYH I'm going to reconsider you after that case. Seems pretty well thought out to me
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Is VE usually this insulting in games?
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On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:
wait, wtf? My last post didn't go through.
I don't remember the last votecount but from my mental image of the game it seems like we're moving toward lynching Xatalos. I'm fine with that; I have some small doubts that he might not be scum (i.e. his activity, for one) but I've seen him play active scum (Newbie XV for example) so perhaps it doesn't mean anything.
However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey
I don't like how bugs calls laser out for the same thing he's doing :/
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BH why are you willing to allow WBG to vote someone for the same thing he's doing atm?
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Are you still talking about WBG here?^^
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EPT
