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On November 30 2012 20:42 Ace wrote:
You've got some pretty quick town reads there. Explain.
Very well.
First of all, those three have been active in the discussion - and on multiple topics. It's possible for Mafia to actively engage in the discussions, but it's more likely that they would be careful and observant rather than having the initiative / naturally talking about what's happening. From my experience, Mafia tend to hide behind silence and carefully talk about topics that fit them, not freely discuss anything.
DarthPunk - Very active and transparent about his opinions. Clearly doesn't hesitate about posting.
austinmcc - Analytic and focused posting. Looks like he's actively pushing the game forward.
debears - Not as sure about him, but there are some posts that indicate he's trying to actively figure out players (completely unnecessary for Mafia):
On November 30 2012 08:09 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 08:03 marvellosity wrote:
No, I say "Totes town ^^"
but the meaning is much the same Hey marv is there a way to go back further than 10 pages in your posting history? I can only go back to GSL and I was wanting to go back further to see something
On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:Actually marv I have a slight town read on you Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on. He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it Boom look at that pro analysis. Links in the spoiler + Show Spoiler +
On November 30 2012 13:04 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 12:05 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas So this particular bit of my intentions doesn't apply to you personally, congratulations. Have you honestly never been in a game where someone's opinion was given more weight simply because of their reputation? I have, and I hate it. I can't comprehend how you construe my somewhat subtle attempt at working against that as scummy. On November 30 2012 11:12 debears wrote:
Also, on DoYouHas
I'm curious as to why in the fuck he puts such suspicion on Ace and Ace's scumplay when Ace has a higher probability of rolling town than scum (15 players, what 4 scum scum is the norm? so thats 11/15 chance of town, 4/15 for scum). Why does he want to make everyone cautious of him before he even makes any posts?
Also, Marv is good at scum. He's only lost 1 game if I recall correctly. Why not mention marv in there also?
Why is he scared of Ace this early?
That's my reasoning I have no idea what you mean by "such suspicion". You act like I'm actively trying to get Ace lynched based purely on his potential scumplay. I'm not. I'm far more focused on Xatalos. Everyone has a higher probability of rolling town than scum. This is in no way relevant to me wanting the rest of the town to be cautious of giving Ace influence due to his reputation. I dislike arguing this point with you because currently Ace seems to have no interest in leading the town. You want to kill me off by blowing a small thing in my first post out of proportion. I've explained my intent twice now. Either you are happy with it or you are not. I'm moving on. I wouldn't be suspicious of you if you were trying to get him lynched. I am suspicious of you for saying "hey we should be wary of this guy because his scum play can be good" for no reason at all in the beginning of the game. You signed up for this game knowing that there are a lot of experienced players, yet you feel like you need to bring this up? And specifically only for Ace when others like BH, VE, and marv have been around a while? So you came into the game beingnaturally more suspicious of Ace, yet you haven't scrutinized any of his posting so far? What do you think of his lack of taking control of town?
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On November 30 2012 21:10 ShiaoPi wrote:
I would also like to know why you chose to share them now xatalos
It's because I remembered an interesting strategy in a game I observed (Wheel of Fortune). This post explains it well:
On April 24 2012 21:32 Bluelightz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 21:13 SamuelLJackson wrote:On April 24 2012 20:14 Bluelightz wrote:Right now, I REALLY want to believe marv is scum, but I believe he is town, look at this: On April 24 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote:
Because I'm new and bad, obviously Would mafia be posting THAT unsafe? I feel like that marv didn't fear ANYTHING, so therefore he is town, Mafia wouldn't go like that (straightly pulling the newbie card) after being accused. Here's the interesting part about you: You say that about every guy in this game and I already told you d1 I don't care about your townreads, that's a null. Scum can do that themselves because they know who is mafia and who is not. so WHO do you think is mafia. You are against every lynch because EVERY guy is a townie according to you. Do you think this is some kind of 13 jester troll set-up done by Igrok or do you actually believe there are mafias within the 13 players? Why do you always keep on telling us how everyone is town but completly ignore the fact that there are bound to be some mafias, yet you completly ignore that part of the game as far as I recall. I haven't read your filter most recently because it was a bunch of nothing with some townreads every now and than mixed in but that's what I remember you for the most. A guy who keeps on telling everyone that everyone is town in this game. How is that possible. Are you actually that much of a paranoid (well more the opposite of paranoid I guess?) townie or are you a mafia dodging accusations, talking only about your (easy to do) townreads who's not willing to give a single mafiaread? --- Toad Toad, I know that your not Okay with this, but at least im going to explain how im going to try to find scum :/ 1 Mr Zentor 2 SamuelLJackson (Toadesstern+sandroba hydra)
3 Radfield4 Snarfs 5 VisceraEyes6 Phagga 7 prplhz 8 strongandbig 9 Forumite 10 Sbrubbles 11 marvellosity
13 AceBy cutting down the townies who I think are town, There are less people to read,etc. I guess you may just call this by process of elimination. Also, your exaggerating very much, I'm not calling 'EVERYONE' Town. On my suspicions, I have a sneaking feeling that prp is scum, MrZentor I'm debating as well.
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On November 30 2012 21:57 marvellosity wrote:
pro-tip Xata, BL does it wrong by actually telling us his townreads. Keep them to yourself unless there's a particularly good reason is generally better.
Haha, getting coached again  I'd just like to think that sharing information is the way to go. Mafia benefit if everyone keeps to their own opinions - especially if people take their opinions with them to their graves... A flip from a transparent player is much more informative than a flip from someone who didn't reveal his opinions. Although I guess keeping Mafia in the dark can have its uses.
On November 30 2012 22:03 Ace wrote:
Xatalos, debears and austin316 kinda butted heads already. Austin called him out on his reasons for voting. It's really early in the game - don't you think that should cause you to hedge your bets on both of them being town? Or did you just skim their posts without reading who they were responding to?
I'm not completely sure what you mean. Are you saying they're both town because they argued early? I haven't really thought about their relationship (town/town, town/Mafia or Mafia/Mafia), rather I just looked at their filters seperately.
On November 30 2012 22:30 ShiaoPi wrote:
Xata marv already said why it is illadvised to share townreads without a good reason. So what is your reason?
None of the mentioned townreads of your are in danger of getting lynched (deadline isnt that soon anyway). Nor have you cut down the number of players to figure out scum. So why do it? Really see no reason to do that. I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution.
Every time I was Mafia, I had that pressuring feeling when people started sharing town reads. It kind of reduces the hiding space for Mafia, since they are more likely to be targeted and pressured after the pool of suspects becomes smaller. It's also a fact that Mafia start the game with an information advantage, and the faster they start losing that advantage, the better. Basically time is against Mafia and they get weaker as the game continues. Keeping reads to yourself can help them by delaying the decrease of their advantage.
As a sidenote, you keep saying I'm "too good" to use suboptimal strategies or whatever. Keep in mind that I was Mafia when we last played together. Naturally I knew the alignments of everyone and had a very easy time making reads. It was extremely easy to bus heist since I KNEW he was truly Mafia. And naturally I was much more careful about how suspicious I might appear by saying something.
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On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote:
@Xatal
I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.
Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part
Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion.
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On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class?
Actually, I don't think it means anything. I've seen veteran players casting random votes before just to possibly get a reaction or something. A vote without any reasoning is basically a throwaway vote in any case.
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One player I find suspicious is VisceraEyes. He hasn't been merely trolling or lurking, but rather posting pseudo-productive posts that make him look somewhat active - without actually accomplishing anything. This playstyle in between useless and useful is the one I'm always suspicious of.
On November 30 2012 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Good stuff guys. Good, good stuff.
For anyone who hasn't played with him before, Ace is going to pop in about twice or thrice a cycle. He's not going to try and lead anyone. He's also not going to FOLLOW anyone. He's going to play Mafia. If he's scum, he's going to fucking own us. If he's town, he's going to be right but will probably lose because he can't stand people not playing on his level and will lose interest.
That about sum it up sir?
So let's just drop the topic of Ace as he's made all of what...1 one-liner post? We'll resume discussion of the man once he throws some content up in this piece.
dabears, I'm more interested in you damning DYH for having an opinion on Ace. The guy doesn't even HAVE any posts to discredit, so why are you so concerned about him trying to do so this early anyway? Do you know something I don't about Ace's alignment?
That's the only thing that's jumped out at me so far - everything else is chaff and while I don't necessarily mind it, it's certainly not helping anyone find scum (happy Bugs?)
I'm going to bed guys.
This post does actually have a point about debears... But VisceraEyes doesn't pursue it anyhow, just points it out (like some other players did) and never speaks of it again. The rest is pretty much safe-to-say meaningless fluff.
On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 02:33 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:austin, I agree that I don't like this vote: On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do. I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection) To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious. Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/
A quite unnecessary and forgettable post.
On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class?
Actually an "original" topic, but yet again safe to say and not really that productive. Feels like something Mafia might say to look like they're doing something, while actually not doing anything. I also dislike how none of his posts are connected... It's like he's posting the minimum required amount and avoiding commitment to anything.
Overall, nothing decisive, but all of this leaves an uneasy feeling about VE for me.
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Is this a curse or what... Always when I post about someone, they leave a new post while I'm typing it.
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On December 01 2012 03:38 VisceraEyes wrote:##Vote: dabearsFrankly I don't care about further explanation from dabears regarding this whole mess. I think he's said enough. The whole exchange between dabears and DYH is ridiculous in my opinion. People don't SHEEP Ace because he's known almost exclusively for his SCUM play. I've seen him really fucking own as town, but people don't know or care about that. Ace is known as a top-tier SCUM player, and so that's the image Ace conjures. The fact that dabears is all up in arms about DYH "discrediting" Ace is nonsense...not only had Ace barely posted anything at the time, but DYH explained his motivation TWICE and dabears still didn't relent, or verily even acknowledge said explanations. Also this post rings scumbells for me. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 10:39 debears wrote:Actually marv I have a slight town read on you Ok guys I looked up Marv's previous games for games where he says he is town early on. He has not done in his last few games as scum. He has done it twice as town What does this mean? Something so small as saying you are town is most likely a subconscious thing. Sure, marv could have decided to do it this game, but it was right at game start. No one else had said anything like it On November 30 2012 08:01 marvellosity wrote:
Hi all.
Totes town ^^ Boom look at that pro analysis. Links in the spoiler + Show Spoiler + Like...I don't know if it was meant to be a joke, but I think I know EXACTLY when marv started saying he's town at the outset of games, and it had nothing to do with his alignment at the time. Yet he's trying to pass off this post as some sort of actual analysis of marv's play? Simply by calling it analysis? Give me a break. Let's just kill it with fire, yeah?
Hmm... How does it "ring scumbells" that debears made a far-fetched analysis about marvellosity? I just don't see the Mafia motive in that. I don't know why debears's persistence to pressure DYH is a Mafia motive either. All of this might not be optimal play, but I don't see any grand Mafia motive behind debears's play.
On December 01 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it.
Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread.
I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia.
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On December 01 2012 05:36 DoYouHas wrote:Xata - Let me get this straight. You've made a case on me which you immediately stopped pursuing (yet your vote is still there I would mention). You've made a case on VE without a vote or a real conclusion and you also look like you are going to drop this one as well with a parting, "I'm watching you, boy". You have given 3 townreads which are the easiest thing in the world to change your mind on. I'm finding it hard to know where you stand or what you are actually trying to do. What bothers me the most, what I am hung up on, and what I just can't seem to drop is your response to BH's vote and then your response to my vote. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:10 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 09:03 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 08:59 Blazinghand wrote:
##vote Xatalos
I'm from the government and I'm here to help. Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out! Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote. ##Vote Xatalos Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 09:12 Xatalos wrote:
Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts. At least it beats inactivity and gives "something" to work with, opposed to an empty thread. Every little bit of info can help later on. Although nothing even nearly decisive has been said yet. I have already pointed out how Xata's response to BH's vote is classic avoidance behavior. Town tends to get mad when someone votes them, they tend to deny, they tend to confront their accuser. Especially since it was a vet accusing a newer person, that is the kind of reaction I would expect. Then comes Xata's response to my vote: "Maybe I underestimated the usefulness of these fluff posts." AGAIN, he avoids the confrontation, he avoids saying that I am wrong. In fact, in both cases he is essentially saying that we are right, "jokingly" of course. Later his rather weak attempts at misrepresenting my argument against him pop up. - Accusing me of bandwagoning - My choice of voting Xata was largely based on a reaction of his after BH's vote. This brought the count of people voting Xata to 2, some bandwagon. - Accusing me of not providing reasoning with my vote - The reasoning was there with my vote. I thought that his way of answering BH's vote was highly suspicious. The later posts simply expanded upon that. - Accusing me of being half-hearted - Simply because I admit the possibility that what I read as scummy could also be the result of nooby uncertainty doesn't change that I think I'm right about this one. I also dislike the number of qualifying statements he has been putting in his posts recently: Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 20:05 Xatalos wrote:On November 30 2012 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes? Right now I see DarthPunk, austinmcc and debears as the most likely townies. I would also include marvellosity, but something is bothering me. Probably it's the fact that his posts have been too vague/fluff to really contribute so far... Although I might be just extra careful, since he was my coach earlier.And WBG, why are you only asking questions? I can't say it's either townish or scummy, really, but I'd like to see your own opinions and reasoning instead of pushing the responsibility to others. Especially since it is a Mafia tactic I've used to focus on asking questions. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:14 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 03:03 debears wrote:
@Xatal
I don't think the problem is giving reads so much, as long as you have good reasoning behind them.
Saying "X is town because I like his posting", for instance, not beneficial. You're follow up explaining why was good though. That's the important part Hmm, I guess so. Certainly it'd be more useful to give a town read with strong evidence backing it up. I've been in a situation where I placed a town read on the most active Mafia player and never believed he was Mafia until it was already too late. My intuition isn't infallible after all... Even so, it seems more productive to focus on those players who don't appear interested in pushing the discussion. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 04:16 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 03:59 VisceraEyes wrote:
Given my most recent post on dabears Xata, are some of your suspicions assuaged?
Dabears, meta isn't about people making specific posts as specific alignments, that shit is so fucking easy to fake.
How about YOU read up on meta and then come and talk to me about it. Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread. I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia. Many of you seem to have stopped suspecting Xata because he is accepting your coaching, or because he is starting to participate more and you are uncomfortable lynching an active poster. Xatalos is certainly not a passive mafia player (Newbie Mini XV filter). We are allowing Xata to take up a position where he is excused from multiple bad plays, suspicious behavior, and weak cases simply because some of you think he is a noob that needs to be coached instead of scum that needs to be lynched. You are wrong, I'm fairly confident I've found scum. Let's lynch Xatalos
At the moment I don't have a strong lynch candidate. That being the case, I haven't touched my vote for some time. You're right that it's still for you, but right now I would rather lynch VisceraEyes. Especially comparing your and his recent posts I'd say VisceraEyes is more likely Mafia. VE's vote for debears was the most bandwagony (= scummy) vote so far, but this case you present against me doesn't strike me as a Mafia play. Since my vote is clearly bothering you, I can change it immediately.
##Unvote
##Vote VisceraEyes
"Heheh.. What ever should I do. Clearly I've been found out!"
Really... This is a big problem for you? Blazinghand's vote for me was clearly a troll and I responded to it with a troll post. I would normally have just ignored it, but the thread was full of trolling - I decided to make one joke post as well. I can't see at all why you would tunnel on a meaningless joke and base your suspicions around that. What should I say to you? There's no reasoning behind that post. You could just remove it from the thread (BH's votepost as well, in truth) and nothing of any importance would change. I didn't "avoid confrontation" by not responding to your "Well that is a suspicious way of responding to BH's vote". To be honest, I didn't even know if you were being serious. I hope that matter is now put into rest, since it's just a big waste of time arguing about it.
I guess you're right about the part where I call you "bandwagony". I just looked at it this way:
1) Player A votes for me
2) Player B eagerly votes for me soon after without a real reason
That just made me automatically think bandwagoning=scummy=lynch? But really, it's more a case of misunderstandings on both ends. You started suspecting me after that stupid post (for some reason) and I started suspecting you of bandwagoning (even though BH never even tried to get me lynched and it was only you who pursued my suspiciousness). So it's safe to say that you're no bandwagoner...
I think it was wrong to call you "half-hearted" as well. It's starting to feel more like you're *overzealous* over something as petty as a troll one-liner. I have no idea how it got to the point where I'm confidently scum in your mind, but if this response didn't appease your zeal, I'm not sure what to think. Could Mafia really be so persistent and careless? I have some difficulty imagining that right now. I find it much more likely that Mafia would carefully wait for opportunities rather than push the discussion to a certain direction persistently.
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On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often
You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything?
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Here's my history:
Game of Thrones - Mafia - Win
Newbie Mini VII - Town - Loss
Newbie Mini XV - Mafia - Win
Newbie Mini XXVI - Mafia - Loss
Yeah, I've played a lot as Mafia. That's why I'm trying to develop myself as a town player, even though it's not working very well so far......
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On December 01 2012 07:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything? the insane number of qualifiers you use that i saw some times in that scum filter and not at all in your town filter that i found.
Haha. I guess you mean Game of Thrones, where I was extremely indecisive and just followed behind others. But if you look at my later games as Mafia, I was very careful to appear consistent and decisive. I also never was in danger of being lynched (unless you count the end of XXVI where I was catched by a process of elimination). But I was under constant pressure in VII (as VT) and eventually lynched. Kind of like the situation is right now... For some reason I play a better townie as Mafia than as a real townie :/
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On December 01 2012 07:42 DoYouHas wrote:So Xata, you went from this post (probably the post I like best from you): Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 08:47 Xatalos wrote:The beginning of this game is quite... different... from newbie games Trolling seems to be the norm. Somehow I just don't like making yourself artificially harder to read. It's kind of like a selfish metagame plan to confuse other players - not to help your team. What's the point in establishing yourself as a null read? Except denying meaningful information from scumhunting? to a troll post in the space of 16 minutes? Simply because MrZ told you to loosen up because being too uptight looks suspicious?
What's your point really? I made one meaningless post that might have as well not existed at all. I guess the overall atmosphere of the thread (trollfest) had some effect on me and I just typed something without thinking much about it. After that I've focused solely on figuring out players though. What more can I say about that?
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On December 01 2012 07:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 07:43 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 07:27 marvellosity wrote:On December 01 2012 07:24 Xatalos wrote:On December 01 2012 07:20 marvellosity wrote:
jesus, xatalos has played mafia so often You actually think I'm Mafia at the moment? How did that case of DYH convince you of anything? the insane number of qualifiers you use that i saw some times in that scum filter and not at all in your town filter that i found. Haha. I guess you mean Game of Thrones, where I was extremely indecisive and just followed behind others. But if you look at my later games as Mafia, I was very careful to appear consistent and decisive. I also never was in danger of being lynched (unless you count the end of XXVI where I was catched by a process of elimination). But I was under constant pressure in VII (as VT) and eventually lynched. Kind of like the situation is right now... For some reason I play a better townie as Mafia than as a real townie :/ No, I mean the filter that DYH linked. see the stuff on bold. I also went through 3 pages of your town filter and did not see a single instance of you giving out any sort of town read. It was bang bang bang this guy is scummy, this guy is scummy, this guy is scummy. Not a single townread, not one. Even in the spoiler you're giving out townreads as mafia.
Aha... Well, it's impossible for me to be 100% certain about anything. Especially early Day 1 - if you didn't notice, I've usually arrived to the thread about 10 hours after the game started, but now I was online right at the start. It's much harder to make any good reads based on the first posts (and they were all just trolling this time around). With that said, let's look at VII...
On April 13 2012 00:31 Xatalos wrote:
I have a hard time figuring out the 3 Mafia from this back-and-forth action, but if we manage to find even one today, it should make it easy to figure out the rest tomorrow. ArcticFox, I want you to post more. Right now the majority seem to be in favor of your lynch, and unless you share your opinions and prove us your innocence, I'm pretty sure you will be lynched at this rate. If you are town, you have nothing to lose by being more active and useful. If you are Mafia, you of course have the right to be silent, but it will probably lead to your lynch. Also Acrofales and yomi, I want to hear why you disregard my case against ArcticFox and actually even have a town read on him! I can understand not being very suspicious of him, but if you're not suspicious AT ALL, I don't know what to say...
I'm also calling it now: likely either yomi or Dittert is Mafia. Why? It just seems way too convenient that they lurked all game and SUDDENLY appeared to post RIGHT after I called them out. My suspicion? Could very well be Mafia lurking the thread and only posting when required...
I wouldn't call my posting all that decisive. I'm going back and forth a lot with my opinions and questioning myself (see above). I also definitely did share town reads. For example:
On April 16 2012 07:12 Xatalos wrote:
Okay, I'm not as good with formatting (or logic, I guess..) as KharadBanar and Acrofales, but I'll try doing a similar overview analysis based on my own thoughts.
First of all, we have two confirmed townies: ArcticFox and BroodKingEXE. I'm mostly interested in ArcticFox's filter, because he was A) killed by Mafia, not town B) more contributive. I can see why they would choose to kill ArcticFox: his posting style is solid, convincing and logical. His top Mafia reads are yomi, HiroPro and Dittert - although you can't deduce too much from that, as they could have killed him just to cast suspicion upon these players. Even so, I would say the chances are high at least one of these players is Mafia.
I also know I am town myself. I'm not sure if I should take it into account in my probabilities, but since KharadBanar did so, I'm going to do the same. I would also say that Acrofales, KharadBanar and vonKlaust have been overall so informative, logical and pro-town in their posting, that their chances of being Mafia are pretty close to zero (in my mind). Considering I'm completely unwilling to lynch any of them right now, I'm going to make their chances of being Mafia 0% to make this a bit simpler.
What do we have left now? Only 6 players, of which 3 are certainly Mafia. So, even if there would be a random lynch among these 6 players, it would mean a 50% chance of hitting a Mafia. After hitting one Mafia, it would become infinitely easier to find out the remaining Mafia. The real problem is: among these 6 players, everyone is at least somewhat suspicious. I would say there is a reasonable chance for any of these players being Mafia, although some do rise above the others. The average chance (without any other modifiers) to hit a Mafia in this group is 50%, which isn't too bad already. 1/6 is 17%, so I'm going to take that as the starting point and decrease or increase this percentage based on my own thoughts:
- Willz: 10% (has made some suspicious moves, but has almost always defended himself in a very pro-town manner by tackling the issues straight at their core and not resorting to WIFOM, distraction, OMGUS or further suspicious moves - he has also contributed to the thread in an informative and logical fashion)
- imallinson: 15% (has been mostly flying under the radar, not bringing himself to the forefront unless forced to, and not contributing more than absolutely necessary to continue flying under the radar)
- Funcmode: 17% (it's very hard to say anything about him, since he has an empty filter so far - definitely anti-town play, but not necessarily Mafia play)
- HiroPro: 18% (has been somewhat lurking and flying under the radar for the whole game, posting very cautiously and warily when he posts at all - small bonus suspicion for being suspected by ArcticFox)
- yomi: 20% (started off the game with heavy lurking, finally started to post at the conclusion of Day 1 as he was in danger of being lynched, continued to post in Night 1 as he was in danger of being Vigi shot, never really contributed unless forced to, although I find his latest post about Dittert & HiroPro as a Mafia team as interesting and a bit redeeming for him - small bonus suspicion for being suspected by ArcticFox)
- Dittert: 20% (was useless/anti-town during the whole Day 1, went lurking for the conclusion of the Day 1 lynch, came back after it to accuse everyone who voted for BroodKingEXE - and claimed town credibility for not voting for BroodKingEXE himself, then stopped his already non-existent contribution and martyred himself without even trying to get himself cleared of the lynch - small bonus suspicion for being suspected by ArcticFox)
All in all, I think it's essential to lynch either Dittert, yomi or HiroPro for today. Earlier I thought Dittert's town flip would be the ultimate bad situation, but actually even that would provide some information. I'll also look a bit at the connections between Dittert, yomi and HiroPro:
- Dittert flips Mafia: makes yomi less suspicious, makes HiroPro more suspicious
- Dittert flips town: makes yomi more suspicious, makes HiroPro less suspicious
- yomi flips Mafia: makes Dittert less suspicious, makes HiroPro less suspicious
- yomi flips town: makes Dittert more suspicious, makes HiroPro more suspicious
- HiroPro flips Mafia: makes Dittert more suspicious, makes yomi less suspicious
- HiroPro flips town: makes Dittert less suspicious, makes yomi more suspicious
So, all of these players have a high chance of being Mafia, and lynching any of them would be at least somehow useful even in the case of a town flip.
Since the vote is almost tied between me and Dittert at the moment, I'm definitely going to keep my vote on Dittert for the time being. In case he flips Mafia, I'm willing to vote for HiroPro instead of yomi next. In case he flips town, I think I'm going to vote for yomi again.
I feel quite stupid for misunderstanding yomi's post so completely, but I'll try to be more observant, calm and logical in the future. If that moment of my stupidity leads to my lynch and thus an easy path to victory for Mafia, I'll be kicking myself in the head on the observer chat along with BroodKingEXE...
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On December 01 2012 08:12 DoYouHas wrote:
My point is that I think it is strange that you went from anti-trolling to trolling in the space of 16 minutes. I don't think that those couple responses were as meaningless as you would like me to believe. You have explained yourself clearly, I just don't believe you.
Sigh, it feels like talking to a wall. I also trolled in the pre-game discussion, so it's not like I can't do it. I just didn't like how everyone was trolling in the beginning of the game and nothing useful was happening. But then I thought "what the heck" and went with it for a moment. After that I returned to seriousness and started reading filters. And what's your explanation for my "suspicious" switch of attitude in that space of 16 minutes? How is it scummy or "meaningful"?
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Now I have to go to sleep so I won't be able to post for some time. See you later!
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On December 01 2012 09:27 marvellosity wrote:
Xatalos, the post you're quoting is after a couple of flips, and is quite a long way in.
You should know yourself they don't compare.
Anyways, outside input welcomed.
(code for: a bunch of people in this game need to do some shit)
You clearly like your meta reads, but let me explain some of my thought processes. GoT was my first game and I rolled Mafia. I was pretty afraid of posting anything, so I had a tiny filter with nothing of worth in it. I had some luck, though, since town focused on lynching each other and I stayed off the radar until the very end. At LYLO one player took a look at my filter and saw how it screamed Mafia. It was too late though, and his case didn't gather enough support.
Next game I rolled Vanilla Town. I decided not to repeat the mistakes of town in GoT (stupid policies, WIFOM, lack of focus), so I devoted my existence to finding Mafia and getting them lynched. I became hyper-aggressive, though, pointing fingers at anything remotely suspicious and tunneling a couple of players like crazy. That lead to my demise, since the players who believed I was town were wiped out and the remaining townies had been through hell by my accusations. Naturally they chose to believe KharadBanar, who was Mafia, but had been kind of in the background and never got to be suspected (or really suspected anyone himself). I was lynched and we lost.
Then I rolled Mafia again and tried for a "background" approach, similar to KharadBanar. I made some carefully constructed cases and gave vague reads on players to appear contributive. I was happily unsuspected for most of the game and when things got a bit difficult in the end, I bussed my teammate (who was luckily defended by ShiaoPi) and finished the game with a lynch of ShiaoPi.
At this point I observed Wheel of Fortune and witnessed pretty bad play by town. ObsQT figured out the Mafia team without that much effort, but town lacked any kind of focus, just lynching bad/controversial players and then sinking into depression. To be fair, all the veteran players were Mafia that game and they had the thread under control. One bright point of the game was actually Bluelightz's correct town reads - he had all the Mafia as null reads and almost all townies as town reads. Unfortunately, his views weren't valued that much.
Next I rolled Mafia once again, but this time I had severe time constraints and couldn't be as active. I tried repeating my earlier victory, but I had to play extremely safe (because I couldn't be there to defend myself most of the time) and I was kind of a very passive background character. Even so, I wasn't actually in any danger until LYLO. By then town had managed to secure each other as town reads - and that left only us, the actual Mafia. It was over at that point. It might have been different had I played more actively, but in any case, this game showed how powerful town reads and Mafia hunting by elimination can be. It was almost like a (game-winning) reincarnation of Bluelightz's mentality in Wheel of Fortune.
Then we arrive at this current game. My second town roll. I had some pretty conflicting feelings about how to play the game (and I still do). Mostly I was thinking about my second and third game. In my second game, I had been discredited and eventually lynched, even though all I did was hunt Mafia. In my third game, I was considered innocent until my victory, even though I just pulled strings in the background. I deduced that maybe some kind of a balanced approach would be for the best. Then I started thinking about the playstyle of Bluelightz (Mafia hunting by elimination). Unfortunately, it's not working all that well so far. The players in this game seem much harder to read than in Wheel of Fortune... I don't even have a single strong town read or strong Mafia read yet. Maybe it's all the trolling, maybe it's the lack of effort by too many players, but I can't think of a lynch that would have a high chance of hitting Mafia. Even players I have town reads on appear scummy in some posts, and the other way around.
The best I can think of is a lynch on one of the players who have put in *some* apparent effort (not just trolling) but have done so in a careful and artificial way. What I mean is: it's possible for Mafia to troll, go on a rampage or make stupid accusations. BUT it's a risky metagame strategy depending completely on town to think like I'm thinking right now. It's much safer to just stay in the background and avoid unnecessary attention, much like I've done in my previous games as Mafia. Blazinghand has been throwing his vote around like it's a piece of trash, but I don't think it makes much sense from a Mafia perspective. It's something to gather negative attention and unnecessarily make himself a lynch candidate.
What I'm most concerned about are these players: VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, Dandel Ion. They all have been pretty passive background characters who are not lurking/trolling/playing bad, but not really doing anything either. I think there's a high chance for 1-2 of them being Mafia. VisceraEyes has answered to my suspicion though:
On December 01 2012 09:30 VisceraEyes wrote:Compared to the hyper pace at game start, the thread is certainly moving at a snails pace today. Since Xata's stance on me has gone from "nothing decisive" to decisive enough to vote, I suppose I should respond to the accusations. + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2012 03:51 Xatalos wrote:One player I find suspicious is VisceraEyes. He hasn't been merely trolling or lurking, but rather posting pseudo-productive posts that make him look somewhat active - without actually accomplishing anything. This playstyle in between useless and useful is the one I'm always suspicious of. Show nested quote +On November 30 2012 14:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
Good stuff guys. Good, good stuff.
For anyone who hasn't played with him before, Ace is going to pop in about twice or thrice a cycle. He's not going to try and lead anyone. He's also not going to FOLLOW anyone. He's going to play Mafia. If he's scum, he's going to fucking own us. If he's town, he's going to be right but will probably lose because he can't stand people not playing on his level and will lose interest.
That about sum it up sir?
So let's just drop the topic of Ace as he's made all of what...1 one-liner post? We'll resume discussion of the man once he throws some content up in this piece.
dabears, I'm more interested in you damning DYH for having an opinion on Ace. The guy doesn't even HAVE any posts to discredit, so why are you so concerned about him trying to do so this early anyway? Do you know something I don't about Ace's alignment?
That's the only thing that's jumped out at me so far - everything else is chaff and while I don't necessarily mind it, it's certainly not helping anyone find scum (happy Bugs?)
I'm going to bed guys. This post does actually have a point about debears... But VisceraEyes doesn't pursue it anyhow, just points it out (like some other players did) and never speaks of it again. The rest is pretty much safe-to-say meaningless fluff. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:On December 01 2012 02:33 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:austin, I agree that I don't like this vote: On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do. I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection) To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious. Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ A quite unnecessary and forgettable post. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 03:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
I suppose no one but me is interested in Ace's marv vote, right?
Everyone scared or something?
Ace care to share with the class? Actually an "original" topic, but yet again safe to say and not really that productive. Feels like something Mafia might say to look like they're doing something, while actually not doing anything. I also dislike how none of his posts are connected... It's like he's posting the minimum required amount and avoiding commitment to anything. Overall, nothing decisive, but all of this leaves an uneasy feeling about VE for me. His major problem with my play is that he thinks that I'm being productive but not really? That's pretty meaningless coming from a guy who's only act is to vote for someone based on outdated (I ninja'd him, not really his fault) information and defending himself. Considering the fact that this is D1, and considering the amount of content that is (not) in the thread, I think I've done a fair amount of scumhunting. He cites my questioning Ace as "something Mafia might say to appear helpful without really accomplishing anything." Except, it's only that way because Ace hasn't responded to my inquiry, so that's really out of my control. Further, it discounts the (true) motivation of "Maybe he's just curious about a suspicious vote with no reasoning and wants clarification" Also, I'd like to hear what's "bandwagon-y" about my vote on debears. First of all, I'm like...the second vote on the guy? Third? I'd argue that marv's no-reason vote is more "bandwagon-y", but whatever. I define "bandwagon-y" in a different way I guess. Bandwagon-y wouldn't include reasoning. Bandwagon-y would be like "Welp, everyone else is voting this guy, guess I better hop on the bandwagon." You know....as the made-up word implies? But it wasn't. I gave reasoning for my vote.
What I'm most suspicious of is the way you posted your vote for debears. I got the feeling you saw your chance to look good by making a "me too" case against debears as he was getting some heat by several players. Then you just kind of dropped that matter and commented casually on some events from the sidelines, but not pushing anything or getting to the spotlight in any form. It's like you were content with your vote gathering dust off the radar and proceeded to make some fluff posts without purpose. As if you didn't even care who got lynched... As long as nobody put pressure on you?
DoYouHas's only contribution so far is his weird push to get me lynched based on a troll post and my initial lack of response to him for voting me without any (in my eyes) apparent reason. Then he just posts this:
On December 01 2012 17:33 DoYouHas wrote:
I'm curious BH, would you say that your confidence in DarthPunk being scum is telling as to Xatalos's alignment? Given Darth's early posts defending Xata I would find it hard to believe Xata is scum if Darth is. Do you agree?
If Darth is scum, what would you say he has been trying to achieve in the thread before he started defending himself? Who else do you think is implicated by Darth's play up to this point?
He just asks some questions from Blazinghand about DarthPunk and provides nothing new to the discussion. He seems quite content to stay off the radar and with minimal contributions as well.
Dandel Ion hasn't put any real effort into his posts yet. He's just made some fluff one-liners and semi-useful "advice" like these:
On November 30 2012 23:10 Dandel Ion wrote:
I mean, I agree that Lazermonkey is being overeager with calling you out like that, but Xatalos already answered you. What information do you expect to gain by asking the same thing again?
On December 01 2012 14:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
It's a themed game. Please tell me you're not gonna start a setup speculation.
Just quickly skimmed the thread, do ya still want me to explain how, when and how well I read guides, or did you realize that it was a silly question in the first place yet?
Dandel Ion doesn't just seem to care about Mafia hunting, even though he has posted a decent amount and with semi-useful content as well. I'd need to see some real improvement in his posting to make my suspicions fade. Sharing some reads or anything beneficial to finding Mafia would be a good start.
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On December 02 2012 01:25 ShiaoPi wrote:
So who do you want to lynch Xata? Which of the three is scummiest to you?
VisceraEyes at the moment. DoYouHas and Dandel Ion haven't made any actual effort to contribute, but they haven't done anything outright scummy either. I'm most suspicious of VE's opportunistic vote for debears and his lack of interest to do pretty much anything useful after that.
On December 02 2012 01:26 marvellosity wrote:
and yeah, Dandel has been pretty shocking. Seems like he signed up and now isn't bothering to play the game :/
Any other comments? I wrote that wall of text about my meta after all :/
On December 02 2012 02:19 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 23:48 ShiaoPi wrote:
Hey lazer you still interested in me? I dont think so, seeing you entangled with DP now...just for housekeeping purpose go read my posts if you still think tgat i am not responding to you.
I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now....
BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer? Bolded part is wut? You write this, yet this is the first post since I called you out and you left. You say your more intrested in BH now, what happend with Xata? You STILL have not given a satisfying reason to your strange behavior earlier but instead try to ignore it by saying that I haven't properly read some parts of your filter. Care to enlighten me? You then make a couple of posts saying that you are not really sure what to think of BH and then ends up voting him anyway? I am still interested in you. You are my second highest scum read at this point. And you did a very poor job of convincing me otherwise.
I agree that ShiaoPi's flip-flopping and throwaway vote for BH don't look good for him. It could be just indecisive town who ran out of time, but why BH? ShiaoPi doesn't look like he even has an actual scum read on BH...? I don't think ShiaoPi is a good lynch for today but someone to watch carefully going forward.
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On December 02 2012 03:36 DoYouHas wrote:
Xata, I find your recent wall of text post quite interesting. Why are you still defending yourself? Marv hasn't looked like he was going to push you for a while now, leaving just me voting you. Almost the entire focus of the thread had moved away from you. Against what perceived threat are you defending?
Why, when we are in the last 1/4 of the day, are you spreading your suspicion over 3 people instead of picking your pony and trying to get them lynched? You only state which of the 3 of us you find most suspicious when asked later. (Though, the choice probably wasn't that hard since your vote was already on VE.) You seem much more concerned with showing that you have a stance than actually pursuing someone's lynch.
The rest of you - This is not the behavior of a townie. Arguing against a non-existent threat shows that Xata is still feeling pressure long after it has stopped. This is because Xata feels the need to go the extra mile to prove he isn't scum (a scummy trait). Spreading suspicion around without actually trying to bring anyone around to lynching his target is also scummy play.
A vote for Xatalos is a vote for SCUM
Isn't it a good thing to clear misconceptions anyhow? You're right that marvellosity didn't look like pursuing the metagame argument, but I can see no harm at all in clearing it up. Establishing one's innocence is an important goal for any townie after all.
Time is running out, yeah, but it's not too late to consider the options yet. There are still 4 players who haven't voted at all and several votes are probably subject to change. If any of VE/DYH/Dandel can't be lynched tonight, at least it's a perfect opportunity to make some pressure. I'll change my target from VE if needed before the deadline.
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On December 02 2012 03:28 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 02:29 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 02 2012 01:48 Zealos wrote:On December 02 2012 00:58 debears wrote:On December 02 2012 00:53 Ace wrote:
man half of you guys are utter shit at this game. Stop fucking going back to past games and read what the fuck you see HERE. You're shitting up the thread with shit that doesn't even matter. I see him as scummy here for not doing anything. He claims his d1 pattern is saying nothing for most of d1 as defense. I show him that he's wrong How is that not related to this game? Agreed. Looking at what is happening HERE, all I am seeing is an angry Vet making no real contribution to the game. Btw, I had a mad friday, and have been busy most of today, so I won't really have time to add much till the lynch. I will be more involved in the coming days, but until then I'm pretty useless. One thing I have noticed is that Marv seems to be playing differently than how I remember him. I played a scumgame against his Town play, and he was aggressive, asking a ton of questions, and wouldn't rest till he had me killed. This game he seems to be acting much more passively... Why is this? There are plenty of time untill the lynch=alot of time to make reads. Your filter is empty as you yourself point out. But that is not the most alarming IMO. You really haven't been scum hunting at all. You have a few null or slight town reads but most of all you are being extremly wish washy. You say Ace looks like an angry vet with no contribution. Does this make Ace scum do you think? You say marv plays differently, but does that make him scum? You say you don't think Debears is scum, although you provide no analysis. You don't think Xata is scum. What do you think then? ##FoS Zealos
I did give reasoning for debears. Ace I would call scum if he were a different player, but no one seems to be too keen to push him yet, so I'm willing to leave it for now. Plenty of time ≠ plenty of free time till lynch. I am pointing out marv plays differently. Perhaps scum, perhaps a blue trying to protect himself, may just be acting differently for no reason. I am saying what I am thinking and seeing in the thread. I have not outright called anyone scum yet, but I don't feel I have had enough time to read over to decide who deserves the lynch. I would say the earlier stuff with DI and debears was a little dodgy, but equally, it had too much read into it at the time. The current votes on Xata seem to be the best bet for the time being. This is for instance seems a little.. odd... Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 04:16 Xatalos wrote:Well, it's always good to post real content in my eyes. Maybe some of my suspicions faded, but I still don't have a good feeling about you (sorry ). Something about that post just feels forced... Like it were a tactical move to look better instead of actually having a beneficial effect on the thread. I'm used to blowing things out of proportions though. I'll have to consider my vote a lot more until I can be satisfied with having catched a strongly likely Mafia. The sorry in particular, along with the end of the post strike me as weird. "Hey, I think you might be mafia, really sorry about that. Also, for anyone reading this, I wouldn't listen to me, because I'm probably wrong, but at least I'm contributing right? Right?! I don't really like using meta as an argument, so I'm gonna ignore trying to tie it in to his past games as mafia and/or town, but from what I've read so far, this guy seems the best lynch candidate. ##Vote:Xatalos
Wut? This post is extremely indecisive and THIS is a prime example of an unconvinced/unconvincing argument:
"The current votes on Xata seem to be the best bet for the time being. This is for instance seems a little.. odd..."
What kind of a reasoning is that? Can you get any more bandwagony?
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