|
Here is my thinking on Ace before I go to bed.
Think back to early in day 1 where debears was really going after me for my first post which boiled down to me not wanting people to sheep Ace because he was Ace. The back and forth between us lasted longer than it probably should have, but at the end of it one thing was sure. Nobody was going to be overtly sheeping Ace based on reputation.
So then there were a couple posts which caught my eye from Ace:
On December 01 2012 11:41 Ace wrote:
Between VE, marv and that useless spambot BH something is off. I highly doubt all 3 are town and wouldn't be surprised if 2 of them were Scum or anti-town.
At first I was reading and concentrating on the debears-ShaoiPi-DYH interaction but Blazinghand showed up and derailed it all.
I was going to call him out for that terrible case on MrZ but he reneged on it, only to bring up a few more terrible cases on various people in the same format with no real effort to convince people on any of them.
On December 02 2012 06:44 Ace wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:39 austinmcc wrote:
Ace, most of your comments D1 have been concerning the vets/folks you've played with (except poking at debears). Have you been primarily concerned with reading them, or does that just happen to be the only thing you're commenting on? No it just happens that those people caught my attention. Marv and BH were the ones I mentioned yesterday after the weird ShaoPi-VE-DP interaction. The thread just went an entire different direction after those 2 showed up. Other observations I'm keeping to myself for now. No need to point fingers all over the place.
What do these posts do? they certainly don't provide any explanation for anything that he is saying. What I see them doing is spreading suspicion. Suddenly 3 of the more veteran players in the game besides Ace have 'something off' about them. "I highly doubt all 3 are town" is an easy statement to make as it reflects what pretty much all of us are thinking, but he takes it a step further and suggest that 2/3 are more likely than not to be scum. And what reasons do we have to suspect those three that we didn't have before Ace posted? None. Ace simply invites us to entertain the possibility, throws the weight of his name behind it, and let's our fears of being against a powerful scum team fill in the reasons for him.
Then we get the debears-Shaoipi-DYH interaction (a strange name since I'm pretty sure I haven't interacted with Shaoipi). Now there are 3 more people that have had an interaction which caught Ace's eye. Again, Ace has managed to direct people's attention to targets of his choice without ever providing a reason aside from "I'm Ace". The interaction, renamed the Shaoipi-VE-DP interaction in the second post, but, as far as I can tell, is referencing the same thing as the first post (I could be wrong, but Ace certainly didn't make it easy on me, since he gives no details and no explanations) is now "weird".
So what do those posts do? At their face they are meant to make us think that he is scumhunting, looking at things which your average player doesn't grasp. But what they actually do is prey on people's instinct to think "there must be something to these suspicions if Ace is spending his time on it". Ace wasn't trying to lead the town down the right or wrong path, he was simply facilitating the town destroying each other.
P.S. It is also possible that he really just didn't give a crap about the town. It would really irritate me if he was playing against his win condition by making no attempt to win the rest of the town to his reads.
Good night.
|
On December 02 2012 23:53 MrZentor wrote:
Why hasn't DYH posted his role pm yet?
-.-
Because it doesn't prove anything. However, there is no reason not to, so here you go.
+ Show Spoiler [Role PM] +You are a manic paranoiac clone of Chell. You aren't entirely sure why robots scare the piss out of you so bad, but they do. Sometimes you think you see one in a random place. These days, instead of a portal gun, you carry a 9mm. Unfortunately, you're a terrible shot and only have one magazine, so you'll only get to kill one person. Hopefully you pick the right one. (1 shot vigi.)
|
|
|
Sweetness. And with that I take my leave for a while longer. I'll be back on later tonight.
|
I'm going to be around for a couple hours. My suggestion, go back through day1 with the knowledge that DP and I are town, VE is scum, BH is likely town, and the the major voting patterns around Marv, DP, and myself were all on townies. We have quite a bit of good information to work with to reevaluate day1. Let's not waste that opportunity.
|
Wow. I underestimated just how tired I am. Don't have it in me to review day1 as long as I thought I could. Gnight.
|
@Xata - I have moved you back to null. I don't think the points I have brought against you (excluding the vote responses, I'm moving away from those for now) were bad ones. You seem to be letting other people's opinions influence you more than you should. That keeps me from fully trusting you. However, you are coming across as a reasonable voice that is willing to talk most the things in the thread. You are being active and fairly constructive. It is no longer my top priority to push you.
@Keirathi - You keep bringing up that BH seemed to know that there was no roleblock by slipping that either marv or my action would go through. I completely agree that if they had a RB they would have used it to deal with both of us. (The only exception in my mind is if they really thought I was going to kill another townie for them.) Because of the unlikelihood that mafia have a RB and just chose not to use it, it makes even less sense that BH would have done his last second voteswitch to save me if he was scum. If they had no clear way of stopping both my action and marv's, scum stepping in to help save a vig when literally 30 seconds of "I didn't refresh the page" would have killed me is beyond dumb for scum to do. If one of the main reasons you are suspicious of BH is true, then you are only making it LESS likely that he would have voteswitched.
P.S. Sandroba made the same slip here.
|
Keirathi, what I have gathered about you is that you think Sandro is town, and the rest is you pushing BH. You put together a pretty good case against BH based off of you following along even when you weren't playing. Are there any other players you had strong opinions/thoughts on that are still relevant?
|
On December 04 2012 03:39 wherebugsgo wrote:
The only reason scum wouldn't have an RB is if there are 4 of them.
That's not that out of the question considering that this game is 15 players.
Even with 4 players, DT and vig are 2 very strong town roles in a mini. I would expect mafia to have a rb and a gf. It is also possible that mafia was simply stacked with vet players and got less powers as a result. Something I'm considering at least. Past that I don't really want to speculate because of the closed/themed nature of the setup.
|
Here is an interesting point that should be mentioned. In a situation where there are 3 townies on the chopping block (myself, marv, DP) mafia will almost always split their vote (every time in my experience). That means that there should be at least 1 mafia on me and on DP (and probably on marv, but that is less sure because of shiao and zealos being by themselves on others).
The votelist for DP is the one that interests me the most, it had the longest time for the wagon to build, so should have had the best chance of drawing at least 1 scum vote onto it.
DarthPunk (5)<---- Has been lynched
BlazingHand, Blazinghand, Lazermonkey, marvellosity, Blazinghand, VisceraEyes, DoYouHas, debears, marvellosity, Blazinghand
I'm town. marv was town. I have a very good reason to believe BH is not scum. I have a townread on debears. That leaves Lazermonkey as the only person I think could be mafia on a list where I'm pretty sure there is a mafia.
Look at the post where Lazer votes DP. + Show Spoiler +On December 01 2012 18:48 Lazermonkey wrote:Just woke up... Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank.
##vote Lazermonkey I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote@VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On November 30 2012 23:20 Lazermonkey wrote:On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote:
Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being. This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant. Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. He says nothing at all. On December 01 2012 01:38 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote:On December 01 2012 00:37 Lazermonkey wrote:
Nothing big. I don't really like the amount some players have been trolling, but like someone said, it seems to be the norm in non-newbie games and thus I cannot make too much of a read out of it.
ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler +On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote:
I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving.
The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, - but yet that post is just his thoughts on asking questions, and not actually DOING anything. While not as overtly enjoying himself as others, stuff like vote x10 and one-liners aren't doing anything for the thread. So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull.Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell? Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. On November 30 2012 22:57 Lazermonkey wrote:
I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo:
a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?
b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive.
Neither of these are good for town.
##Unvote
##Vote ShiaoPi What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk
DP is voting Lazer because he doesn't like the number of null reads Lazer has been giving out, and he didn't like Lazer's given reasons for voting Shiaopi. Lazer is not wrong that DP didn't do a great job showing why Lazer's reasons for voting Shiaopi were bad. However, Lazer doesn't stop with just defending himself. Instead he goes right past that and OMGUS votes DP.
Thoughts?
|
|
|
debears - WBG is on my to-watch list, but your case hasn't convinced me, here are a some of the reasons why.
1. Your point about WBG not having a single comment about me despite me being the obvious person to switch to to avoid a DP lynch. I only became the obvious person to switch to about 13-10 minutes before the deadline, until then it was marv or zealos. It is possible that he was actively lurking between his posting at 7:40 and 8:16, but the way his 8:16 post reads just doesn't make that seem too likely. WBG, just like everyone, had about a 10 minute window from when I became a hot topic to the deadline in order to chime in on me. That he didn't is not very condemning.
2. Just because you had a townread on marv early does not make that true for everyone else. I certainly did not, I was going to switch my vote to him (instead of DP) from Xata until the claim and until I thought it through a bit more. Something was definitely a little off about his play, I don't think I was the only one who picked up on that. Him being a DT ended up explaining that difference. WBG pushing someone you think is town is a good reason to suspect him, it is not good evidence to convince anyone else that you are right.
3. The list of player mentions wasn't worthless. It would be wrong to put too much weight into it. But knowing who VE was comfortable discussing is helpful. Using the words of a confirmed scum (who didn't think he would be dying btw) is never a bad place to start. It is a firm place to stand to leverage your new reads. WBG's attack on Shiaopi based in analysis of what VE said wasn't the best case, but it wasn't horrid either. Scum DO often refer to each other like that early on when making short lists of reads. It gives them wiggle room to make a decision on bussing or supporting their teammate later on when they are more comfortable with the direction of the town.
4. Your meta analysis isn't convincing. You show that WBG bit back at Erandorr. However, what I gathered from that was that quite a few of the town was backing Erandorr up. This is a major difference between your example meta and this game. In this game you are one of the few people pushing WBG, more people seem to feel he is town. He is under no threat of lynch(day1), and nobody seemed to take your case and run with it. You are expecting WBG's response meta to be the same between a situation where he feels under threat of lynch and one where he doesn't. It just doesn't hold up.
|
On December 04 2012 07:35 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:34 debears wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On December 04 2012 07:00 debears wrote:
WBG what was your read on DYH heading into lynch before the claim? didn't really have one, since I didn't look into his posts on d1. I think I read his posts more carefully after BH said he found DYH to be scummy. My concern was more with why people were ignoring other players such as Lazer, Zealos, etc. (all the lurkers/coasters) and why BH + marv would ever think DP was scum. Why didn't you look into his posts when he was one of the top two vote getters? I did, and I thought marv was scummier.
This is interesting, I might have to take back my #1. I had assumed that WBG wasn't actively lurking towards the deadline, but this post seems to contradict that.
|
While I've got you here bugs. Can you give me your thoughts on my Lazermonkey case? (Clicky)
|
I would say my top lynch candidates for today would be Lazer or Keirathi/WBG.
I think my vote analysis of Lazer is sound, and is enough to make him a great lynch, which is why I haven't really dug into him. Clearly the rest of you don't agree, and would prefer a wall of text case -_-.
Keirathi inherited my scum read on Ace, tunneled BH like crazy in the face of a good reason to believe BH town, and had weak views elsewhere when pressed.
I agree that WBG has been detrimental to town and I wouldn't be surprised if he did argue with marv to keep marv occupied.
I still have to vote with my strongest read, and that is Lazer.
##Vote Lazermonkey
|
WBG kept using being right about DP as a reason he isn't scum. Why does that make sense? With his vote on the DT, and DP/myself also being town, I don't see how he can take the high ground there. If WBG had his way we would have lynched the DT. It is just WIFOM over whether or not a scum WBG would defend DP.
Keirathi/austin - I'll redirect my question that I asked WBG (but he seems to want to ignore) to both of you. What did you think of my vote analysis that led me to Lazer? If you disagree, why?
|
I'm actually liking a WBG lynch less as this goes on, not more.
|
Ok, after filtering VE and WBG for myself, I've come to a few conclusions. Please give these things a fair trial. Look at them as objectively as you can, and filter them for yourself if you don't want to take my word for it.
I think I was wrong about Keirathi. VE's talking towards Ace sounds exactly like buddying. I don't see VE and Ace being on a scumteam together.
I'm even more confident in my read of Lazer. (My Original Case) + Show Spoiler [VE's Mention's of Lazer] + On December 01 2012 02:37 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 02:33 Lazermonkey wrote:On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote:austin, I agree that I don't like this vote: On November 30 2012 10:46 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 10:38 DoYouHas wrote:On November 30 2012 10:29 debears wrote:On November 30 2012 08:25 DoYouHas wrote:
Hi everyone, looking forward to an active game. It's nice to recognize many of the names on the playerlist even though I haven't played in a while.
I'm happy to see Marv/BH/VE in here. With those 3 there is no reason the thread should be inactive.
I'm perhaps overly cautious of Ace. His reputation obviously precedes him. Never having played with him paired with the knowledge that he can be a devastatingly effective scum leader makes me a little paranoid.
As always, I am in favor of lurker lynching on day1 unless a better candidate shows up (which it inevitably will). DoYouHas Why are you trying to paint such a picture on ace? Sure, he is a forefather of TL Mafia, and I'm sure all of us are aware of his ability. But why try to focus on his scumplay so much over his town play? As I recall, he is also a pretty darn good town player. Stating how you are overly cautious of him (implying somewhat to others that they should also be) just because he's a good mafia player doesn't seem like something a townie would do Because it does the dual job of accurately explaining my feelings towards him to start the game and hopefully stirring up a little fear towards him so that people don't sheep him quite as readily. If he ends up taking a town leader role, I want him to earn it instead of being ushered into it on his reputation. That doesn't make any sense. I'm not going to sheep someone cuz of their reputation. I'm going to sheep if their case 1) makes sense 2) is good 3) I believe they are town If he takes a town leader position, it'll be because of those things. Not because of his reputation ##Unvote
##Vote DoYouHas Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do. I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection) To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious. Truth. Something to do with pack mentality, wanting to fit in, etc. etc. Reading what I've missed y'all, hopefully there's more than discussing whether or not people are going to sheep Ace. :/ On December 01 2012 10:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bugs I looked at marv earlier. It's not his job to keep the thread coherent, it's his job to find and lynch scum...which he's doing a better job than you of at present (pending reading up on Monkeynutz which I haven't done.)
You got anything other than "Yeah what Ace said"....which is nothing btdubz. On December 01 2012 11:52 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2012 11:50 debears wrote:On December 01 2012 11:48 Ace wrote:
There's nothing wrong with it. only 4 posts in day 1 though....none of quality :/ Depends on your definition of quality. His observation of Lazer was pretty accurate, if a little hypocritical. However, town and scum are hypocritical in equal measure, so that's pretty null imo.
For reference, that third quote is Ace responding to what he thinks about WBG's play.
-First quote. A complete nothing interaction. Null to scummy.
-Second quote. Shows he was already paying close attention to the early pressure WBG put on Lazer. Also, VE is making an excuse for not properly looking into Lazer up until this point. Where was the pressure for him to do this? (In his own head, because Lazer is scum.)
-Third quote. Without ever looking to push, explain, or analyze Lazer, VE comes out saying that WBG was pretty accurate in his observations about Lazer. Those observations were ~3 negative points ending in a vote. VE agrees with Bugs that Lazer has been acting scummy, but what does he do then? Nothing. Scum do not simply allow scummy looking town to be left alone. They push them to make it seem like they are scum hunting, they defend them to show that they are right if that person flips later. VE's 3rd post is distancing, plain and simple, there is no other explanation.
I do not like a WBG lynch anymore. The interactions between WBG and VE give me far more of a town read than a scum read. You can get some of that from when bugs is mentioned in my case on Lazer above, more if you read VE's filter. Also there are Bugs' original questions:
On November 30 2012 12:23 wherebugsgo wrote:
Questions:
Why is Blazinghand so useless?
Why has VE not complained about the lack of scumhunting?
Why did Lazermonkey find the need to vote Ace before telling us all he'd be on later?
Why does Xatalos seem scummy but has received the most attention, but not that many votes?
I find myself questioning a lot in this game.
In his first post Bugs is calling out both VE and Lazer, and later he votes Lazer with pretty good reasoning.
I hope I have finally convinced you of Lazer's guilt. And if you grant me that, it is very unlikely for a scum to use his first post to call out 2 of his teammates, and then follow through with a case on one of them.
|
Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track.
Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such.
Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.
##Unvote Lazermonkey
##Vote Shiaopi
|
On December 05 2012 06:18 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 06:13 DoYouHas wrote:
Whichever direction the lynch goes today, I think we are going to kill town. I'm moving my vote to Shiaopi simply because I'm less willing to sacrifice bugs than him to make you realize that you are all off track.
Lazer is scum. BH, my reasons for voting Lazer are not lazy. I came to the same conclusion from looking into both the voting patterns and VE's filter. I was ready to rethink my assumptions when I was filtering WBG and VE. Indeed, I did exactly that for both Keirathi and WBG. BUT, my conviction on Lazer was only strengthened. BH classified my analysis of VE's posting on Lazer to be 'soft defending'. This makes me wonder if he even read it. The ONLY mention that could be construed that way was the first one where Lazer made a generalization about people's behavior and VE responded with "truth". It was a nothing interaction, not soft defending, and I classified it as such.
Hypothetical - If I was to come out with a PBPA on Lazer now, what would happen? You all would ignore me even more than you are now because you would assume I was tunneling Lazer, just like I tunneled Xata. I gave you the evidence that convinced me, and you are all fools to ignore it.
It is time to wake up and smell the coffee town, neither of our candidates today are scum. And in true BH style, I will eat my hat if I'm wrong.
##Unvote Lazermonkey
##Vote Shiaopi HYPOTHETICAL LAND. You're scum this game. WBG is town. WBG and sandroba are both vets with solid scumhunting credentials. sandroba not a lynch option, because he looks townie. Aren't you going to make the play to try and get WBG lynched? If that's true, in the same way we've looked at "someone voting for x probably scum," there is almost certainly scum on WBG if he's town. Saves you an early NK on someone you were going to have to get rid of, and you let town do most of the heavy lifting. Do you agree with that thought process, that scum would be delighted to mislynch town WBG today? If so, who, out of the folks on WBG, do you think is scum?
If I was scum, I wouldn't care which of those two got lynched. Killing Shiaopi won't make WBG's detractors go away or the other way around. WBG is the stronger scumhunter between the two, but arguments over him also occupy more thread space. Killing WBG gets him out of the way. Letting him live will hurt the day 3 discussion since we will keep arguing over him like a dog with a bone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
