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syllogism
Profile Joined September 2010
Finland5948 Posts
November 21 2012 14:35 GMT
#681
Sandroba why do you think Clarity "smells funny"?
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9647 Posts
November 21 2012 14:36 GMT
#682
Dienosore

so town by the way kid wants to be the leader has provided reads shows a healthy amount of suspicion to other players.

Kid should be on team not leader though.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 21 2012 14:36 GMT
#683
On November 21 2012 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyone want to say how Clarity acts when he is scum? Djo/iamp/marv?


I thought you didn't care for meta reads.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
marvellosity
Profile Joined January 2011
United Kingdom36161 Posts
November 21 2012 14:38 GMT
#684
On November 21 2012 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyone want to say how Clarity acts when he is scum? Djo/iamp/marv?


he hasn't really played enough games (hardly any) to make a particularly solid meta read. He played remarkably more constructively as town than he did as scum. And I would agree that he hasn't been particularly constructive so far, but it's too early for me to want to make a call on it.
[15:15] <Palmar> and yes marv, you're a total hottie
Mementoss
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada2595 Posts
November 21 2012 14:38 GMT
#685
I don't know if it was clear in the OP but the voting system is plurality not majority, aka the person with the most votes wins, in event of a tie, the person who got to that number first wins.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu96xMwFVXw
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 21 2012 14:39 GMT
#686
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 21 2012 14:40 GMT
#687
Im pretty sure he has played 1 game as scum, the Newbie XXX. Just thought that since you were more involved in that game than me, you could say whether it is similar/different.
I understanding waiting for more stuff from clarity to analyse.
No gg, No skill.
Djodref
Profile Joined September 2012
France3332 Posts
November 21 2012 14:42 GMT
#688
On November 21 2012 23:35 Oatsmaster wrote:
Anyone want to say how Clarity acts when he is scum? Djo/iamp/marv?


He makes lists...
On a serious note, he is less active and doesn't push his scumread by himself. He doesn't really take initiatives and just follows the flow of the thread

Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 21 2012 14:44 GMT
#689
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.

If I had to pick a party leader at this instant, it would be syllo. But I have not read any of his older games yet so I'm going mostly off of what others are saying.
The reason marv is saying I haven't been as constructive yet has a couple of reasons, but the main one is that this is a bigger game than I'm used to. I'm fine with the activity but the interactions are much more complex as a result.

I think my first 16-24 hours are just me getting my bearings though.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
risk.nuke
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden2825 Posts
November 21 2012 14:51 GMT
#690
On November 21 2012 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.

If I had to pick a party leader at this instant, it would be syllo. But I have not read any of his older games yet so I'm going mostly off of what others are saying.
The reason marv is saying I haven't been as constructive yet has a couple of reasons, but the main one is that this is a bigger game than I'm used to. I'm fine with the activity but the interactions are much more complex as a result.

I think my first 16-24 hours are just me getting my bearings though.

What has people been saying in particular that makes you feel confident in syllo?
Neo.G Soulkey, Best, firebathero. // http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 21 2012 14:52 GMT
#691
On November 21 2012 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.


You know when you say things like this, it really makes it hard for me to think that you are town...
You repeated what sandro said earlier without giving any reason on why Dieno and me are town...
No gg, No skill.
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 21 2012 14:54 GMT
#692
On November 21 2012 23:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
LOL why would you say that the case is good?
Marv, goodkarma, other people who were in this thread a moment ago.
I would like your opinons on this case?


Clarity has not been very helpful to town thus far, if that's what you were getting at in your case.

In a standard game, it would certainly be a bit disconcerting that he has picked easy targets and "safe" conversation points for discussion, but at present I would say this covers the majority of people. In fact, your case ironically is only the third scum case of the game...

In this particular game it would seem that people are putting more time presently into determining who their leader should be than determining who's scum. Whether this is right or wrong is a fair point of debate, but as it currently stands Clarity does not stand out to me as scum. I definitely don't like his play to date, but I consider him presently a null read.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9647 Posts
November 21 2012 14:54 GMT
#693
On November 21 2012 23:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.


You know when you say things like this, it really makes it hard for me to think that you are town...
You repeated what sandro said earlier without giving any reason on why Dieno and me are town...

i said dieno was town to

that make me scum?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9647 Posts
November 21 2012 14:56 GMT
#694
On November 21 2012 23:54 goodkarma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
LOL why would you say that the case is good?
Marv, goodkarma, other people who were in this thread a moment ago.
I would like your opinons on this case?


Clarity has not been very helpful to town thus far, if that's what you were getting at in your case.

In a standard game, it would certainly be a bit disconcerting that he has picked easy targets and "safe" conversation points for discussion, but at present I would say this covers the majority of people. In fact, your case ironically is only the third scum case of the game...

In this particular game it would seem that people are putting more time presently into determining who their leader should be than determining who's scum. Whether this is right or wrong is a fair point of debate, but as it currently stands Clarity does not stand out to me as scum. I definitely don't like his play to date, but I consider him presently a null read.

i disagree

We act like a normal game hunt the scum that way easier to pick up who is town.

Nominate those people for the team.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 21 2012 14:57 GMT
#695
@Iamp
Not really, your read wasnt forced out of you and you gave some reason which was too nooby to be scum which I agreed with
No gg, No skill.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 21 2012 14:59 GMT
#696
On November 21 2012 23:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.


You know when you say things like this, it really makes it hard for me to think that you are town...
You repeated what sandro said earlier without giving any reason on why Dieno and me are town...


Yeah I'm sure it's really hard for you to see me as anything as scum, already.

Do I have to give reasons for dieno town? I "tunneled" him, and he acted like town, be it dumb town.
As for you, you're a new player as far as I'm aware, at least you've mentioned you were multiple times. If you're scum you don't make a case like that early D1 and stick to it after multiple people tell you you're wrong.

You didn't "force" any reads out of me, but somehow you already seem obsessed with me which is bad because I'm town. I gave you reads to silence you and go look somewhere else.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
goodkarma
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States1067 Posts
November 21 2012 15:01 GMT
#697
On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point.


I found this particular quote to be upsetting. I understand, on the one hand, if you have a town read on syllo. But I don't understand why you would be willing to go so far as to allow him to veto your picks. If you're not that confident in your choices, you should as well just have him pick for you... Or better yet, let him be party leader.

As current "frontrunner" I would like a response from you on this scandal. Are you looking to concede and have syllo run in your stead, or was this merely an assertion that you are super-confident syllo is town?
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 21 2012 15:02 GMT
#698
On November 21 2012 23:51 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 23:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
On November 21 2012 23:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes, I dont really care but since other people are basically using them, why not ask? It doesnt hurt you if you are town right?
I really suggest you start giving opinions on matters so that the players are able to make a read on you..;


I think dieno is newbie town, I think you are newbie town. Marv seemed sincere in his reasons of why he isn't running.

If I had to pick a party leader at this instant, it would be syllo. But I have not read any of his older games yet so I'm going mostly off of what others are saying.
The reason marv is saying I haven't been as constructive yet has a couple of reasons, but the main one is that this is a bigger game than I'm used to. I'm fine with the activity but the interactions are much more complex as a result.

I think my first 16-24 hours are just me getting my bearings though.

What has people been saying in particular that makes you feel confident in syllo?


Mainly marv's opinion maybe an hour or so ago. I think even a scum marv would be truthful about this matter.
Your interaction with him also seems sincere from both sides.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
November 21 2012 15:04 GMT
#699
Wow im already acting like Djo lol..
Ima go look through more filters and see what people have to see about clarity near the cycle end.
No gg, No skill.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
November 21 2012 15:07 GMT
#700
Goodkarma do you still believe we should be focusing on townhunting until there is a possibility to lynch?
+ Show Spoiler +

On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 21 2012 17:04 Keirathi wrote:
On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote:
On November 21 2012 16:12 phagga wrote:
I like Sandroba's plan, his logic is sound. However, I find it dangerous to derive a town read from it, nothing is stopping scum to put up this plan to get themselfes elected.

Why is everyone asking for town reads? I understand that the mechanics are working differently, but everyone just spreading their townreads like the flu will only make it easier for scum to decide who to shoot at night. People like Keirathi and me who have no desire in being elected D1 should not be giving out any townreads, instead we can actually scum hunt in the traditional way and establish ourselfes as town this way. I even think that most candidates should not be throwing out their town reads unless they seem to be a serious candidate (meaning several people have voiced interest in voting that person).



The reason we're not doing traditional scumhunting is because we don't have the power to lynch scum. Our time is best used determining who is most likely town, as we're (hopefully) voting for townies as party leader.

I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting.


Hope that helps.


I see a couple people have questions for me. I'll make a followup post for them within the hour and then I'm calling it a night.

Damnit, I was in bed and checked the thread once more from my phone and had to get up to come back and reply to this because of how vehemently I disagree.

First:
On November 19 2012 09:43 GreYMisT wrote:
This game employs a Party Election system. Most of the time (in place of the lynch) players will be voting on a “Party Leader”. The party leader will be elected each day the town is faced with an “event” (this will be notified in the daypost).


Notice that it says MOST OF THE TIME there won't be a lynch, implying that there will be a traditional lynch at some point (presumably on non-event days).

Also:

On November 19 2012 09:43 GreYMisT wrote:
Factions and win conditions

At some point in the game Lavos will be summoned. The powers and nature of Lavos are hidden until 1999 AD. Win conditions are based around Lavos. Lavos will spawn at a predetermined time in the game. If all mafia die, Lavos will be summoned immediately.


Notice the "If all mafia die." How exactly are mafia ever going to die in this game if all we do is townhunt the whole game? I'm going to guess they aren't going to get punished for being selected into the party (and actually, probably rewarded), so they won't be dying from that. So, that only really leaves 1) lynch whenever that's what we do for the day 2) town vigs shooting the scum and 3) third party having some sort of KP

Both 1 and 2 require scumhunting. Also, scumhunting narrows down possible town reads.

Basically I 100% disagree with you that the only thing we should be doing is townhunting.


This is a good catch. I was under the impression that the party minigames would alter the fate of the game, and be our means for outing scum. It would seem there might also be a traditional component as well.

It still, however, doesn't change the fact that whoever we choose it's going to be because we think they're town, and that they will automatically become a high priority for the scum team. We can't be as hesitant to share some town reads + Show Spoiler +
(and I'm not suggesting, to be clear, people provide a full list of reads for every player or any other such nonsense)
as we would be in a traditional game. The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that...

I should reword what I said, then, as follows.:

Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members.

FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
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