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On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off.
So why do you think I said that, then?
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On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:45 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. So why do you think I said that, then? do you know your success modifier?
Not specifically, but yes.
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On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:45 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. So why do you think I said that, then? do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand
I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.
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On November 22 2012 05:47 Acrofales wrote:
Don't ask me. I think you're scum. You have been completely useless all game and if other people's assessments of your meta are any good, then your town meta is to be constructive rather than yell at the top of your lungs that you're town.
My only experience with you was in Caller's failed game, where you were a veteran vampire cult, so I won't go on my own experience playing with you.
His town meta has nothing to do with being a strong townie, and everything to do with his attitude towards the game. As town he is carefree and says whatever the fuck he feels like. As scum, he's careful, reserved, and can get defensive/apologize when people call something he says or does bad.
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On November 22 2012 05:51 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:45 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:42 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 05:38 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:36 phagga wrote:On November 22 2012 02:40 syllogism wrote:
CaveJohnson who are you? It would be helpful to know in order to determine whether you should "know better" than to say some of the things you have said. Obviously the fact that you chose to use that account suggests that you don't want us to know, but if you are town it would be in your best interest to reconsider. I don't like your posts either, although the fact you said you don't want to be picked for the mission is slightly towny, depending on your reasoning, which I expect you to later reveal. why is that townie? I would expect a townie to want to be part of every mission if possible, as it will make sure that at least that spot is not occupied by scum (from that specific townies point of view). If a townie has a low "success modifier". I could see him not wanting to be picked especially in the early game where its much more likely that a scum (or two) are picked for the team inadvertently and it could cause mission loss. How the hell do you have any idea what your HIDDEN success modifier is? What CaveJohnson's post made me think of was 3rd party. I thought syllo was referring to the fact that a 3rd party didn't want to come along on the mission was "townie", because he at least cares enough about the town to warn them off. So why do you think I said that, then? do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. so obviously we shouldn't put you on the team then. How do you know its low?
How do you think I know? Dur, don't ask stupid questions.
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On November 22 2012 06:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:51 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 Acrofales wrote:
Don't ask me. I think you're scum. You have been completely useless all game and if other people's assessments of your meta are any good, then your town meta is to be constructive rather than yell at the top of your lungs that you're town.
My only experience with you was in Caller's failed game, where you were a veteran vampire cult, so I won't go on my own experience playing with you. His town meta has nothing to do with being a strong townie, and everything to do with his attitude towards the game. As town he is carefree and says whatever the fuck he feels like. As scum, he's careful, reserved, and can get defensive/apologize when people call something he says or does bad. Nobody has called stuff he says or does bad yet. Lets start! Oh wait, I just did.
Well, again, the reason people can read him so easily doesn't have anything to do with how constructive he is.
I am a bit perplexed by him spending so much time trying to make sure people have a town read on him though.
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On November 22 2012 06:07 iamperfection wrote:
i want to be on the team obviosuly
Wanting to be in the team doesn't make you town. Scum definitely want to get into the party to increase town's chances of failing the event.
You're trying really hard to make sure people think that you are town when you really don't need to. People who are familiar with you are quite capable of reading you without you asking, and the fact that you are asking makes me less likely to trust my instincts.
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On November 22 2012 07:45 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:40 BioSC wrote:On November 22 2012 07:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
Bio please answer Acro's question. Please expand on your townread on marv. Would you like me to state for the third time why? I said, I agree with his stance on what we should be doing in regards to the Party Election. I agree with his stance on CJ looking back through CJ's filter. I wanted to have 3 people whom I believed to be town in my party, based on early play, so there it is. It's based on him being in my top 3 town reads at the moment.Why is it not ok for marv to be one of my town reads this early, when it's ok for you to sheep him? On November 22 2012 01:20 Clarity_nl wrote:
I am sheeping marv. I believe that whether marv is town or scum, the way he plays scum from what I've read is he tries to lie as little as possible. I think consolidating at the moment is important so people can stop focusing on townreads and focus on scumreads, and I don't have time to read 3-4 games of every player that is being nominated if I still want to contribute today. Because in my sheeping I reasoned that even sheeping a scum marv on that issue would be fine. It says it right there, after the part you bolded. It's fine if marv is one of your town reads, but I don't like/understand your reasoning. The only thing you mention is that he has the same view on how to handle party creation as you, but I don't think there are many people who disagree with that... so why marv?
I agree with Clarity here. Having a town read on marv isn't a bad thing, but your reasoning to justify that town read were extremely weak, and something scum marv is certainly capable of (and definitely WOULD be) doing. ANd it feels like your just picked out the vets, and came up with some kind of justification of why they could be town, rather than you actually believing that they are town.
And its weird to me that you endorsed sandro as leader, when his plan was for him to be leader and then select 3 "newbies" of whom he was certain they were town, rather than vets, in an attempt to save the vets. But, in your ideal party, you would be taking all vets.
Also, marv, why are you being so cavalier about a town read on yourself for some arguably terrible reasoning? Maybe I'm biased because I'm suspicious as fuck of anyone calling me town for reasons that I don't believe are strong enough to actually make that assessment, but your reaction toward it was...lacking, imo.
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On November 22 2012 08:09 Hapahauli wrote:Oh uh CaveJohnson is the topic du jour? I'll get to that.
In other news, I'm pretty sure Kei is town at this point. He seems to care about the thread, though he can do that as either alignment. However, what convinces me he's town is a post he made towards iamperfection: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=23#458At this point in the game, he was under fire from myself and Z-Boson for a "contradiction" in his attitude on marv. In this position, it's not a natural impulse for scum to go and antagonize another player. Scum here want to buddy people instead of picking other fights. Not only does it go against a general mentality of mafia, but it goes against the more "cooperative" mafia-meta that Kei has.
Maybe your meta read is right after me playing one game as scum ever, but on the off chance that it's not, wouldn't it make sense for me as scum to be less willing to give out town reads, especially on someone I generally find pretty easy to read correctly as the game goes on? If I was scum and he was town, it would be in my best interest to keep him on the table as a potential scum candidate as long as possible, no?
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On November 22 2012 10:47 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 10:43 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 08:09 Hapahauli wrote:Oh uh CaveJohnson is the topic du jour? I'll get to that.
In other news, I'm pretty sure Kei is town at this point. He seems to care about the thread, though he can do that as either alignment. However, what convinces me he's town is a post he made towards iamperfection: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=23#458At this point in the game, he was under fire from myself and Z-Boson for a "contradiction" in his attitude on marv. In this position, it's not a natural impulse for scum to go and antagonize another player. Scum here want to buddy people instead of picking other fights. Not only does it go against a general mentality of mafia, but it goes against the more "cooperative" mafia-meta that Kei has. Maybe your meta read is right after me playing one game as scum ever, but on the off chance that it's not, wouldn't it make sense for me as scum to be less willing to give out town reads, especially on someone I generally find pretty easy to read correctly as the game goes on? If I was scum and he was town, it would be in my best interest to keep him on the table as a potential scum candidate as long as possible, no? Well it has nothing to do with your stance on iamperfection - it's your willingness to pick a fight with him when you were in a vulnerable position. That, to me, isn't a scum instinct. The argument certainly could be made that you're trying to deflect attention, or that it was "forced," or whatever, but I don't see it in that post.
Very well. Carry on.
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On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand
I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier.[/QUOTE]
While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
[/QUOTE]
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.
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EBWOP: Fixing quote tags:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 11:31 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +Keirathi wrote:iamperfection wrote:On November 22 2012 05:49 Keirathi wrote:On November 22 2012 05:47 iamperfection wrote:
do you know your success modifier? Not specifically, but yes. i dont understand I don't know "My 'success modifier' is 3." But I do know that I have a low success modifier. While reading through the filters, I came across this post. What struck me as strange was that Keirathi insists he has a low success modifier. On what basis is he making this assumption? From my point of view, I would have no idea whether 3 was a low value or the highest value in the game. Only if I had the ability to compare my modifier with other players could I come to this conclusion.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. iamperfection asked me if I knew my specific success modifier, and I said "well, I don't know that my success modifier is 3, but I do know that its low". It was worded poorly, but I was trying to say that I don't know specifically what my success modifier number is, only that its low.
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FWIW, I think Dieno is probably town. Besides the fact that I don't see a newbie rolling scum in his first ever forum game coming into the thread and trying to be a town leader, I also liked his reasonings for his scum reads earlier. It showed that he was thinking critically about players and how their posting could be scummy earlier than (almost?) anyone.
That said, I don't currently plan on voting him for party leader because I don't necessarily trust his judgement (I don't particularly think his "town reads" post was very strong, particularly since I'm not convinced Acro is town), and his "the public choose my party members if I'm elected" idea was just bad. I do believe he would be a good person to pick for the party, just not as the leader.
I actually really like GK's recent post. I could see maybe backing him for leader over a "vet". I'll think about it some more and read a few more filters.
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On November 22 2012 15:13 Promethelax wrote:
*snip*
My vote will be on Kita, the candidate I trust. The reasons I trust him 1) I am in his party and know that I am town. That leaves only three others in the party and I have a town read on all three. 2) I am very unhappy with how into Syllo/Sand this thread is. The lack of a real campaign away from theirs worries the shit out of me. Mafia would want to be leader or in the party and the only way that is confirmed is if one of them is mafia. Ergo ## vote: kitaman
This kind of linking yourself to a player running for candidacy makes me suspicious as hell, and I'm sure you can understand why. I mean, I can certainly see you as a townie seeing someone talking about adding you to their party if they get elected and thinking "Oh, I should elect that guy!". But if you're scum, you're going to want to do the exact same thing, and if you're scum together you would want to do it even more. It feels like you're trying awfully hard to discredit the other candidates while pushing your own which has a personal benefit to you.
As an aside, I just realized that this is kind of a side effect of asking potential candidates to lay out their list of players that they want to bring in their party. If any of those people are scum, scum are going to do whatever they can to try to make sure that person gets elected party leader over other ones.
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On November 22 2012 16:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
@Syllo
I think that it is a better idea to talk about your party members and give reasoning rather than keeping it quiet, at least for the first cycle. This way it gives us more info about the players and your reads on them which will help us when the flips start happening.
What do you think about my point that party leader candidates expressing who they plan to choose as their party giving mafia extra influence as to who they want to vote to elect in the event that one of the candidates has a scum member in their proposed parties while the others might not?
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##Vote: syllogism
Yea, I feel better about syllo than any of the other candidates. I said I wouldn't like to vote for a vet, but it appears I don't really have a choice. Sandro hasn't really DONE anything, imo, and kita's campaign is filled with useless "joke" lines (vegetarian, wouldn't run a newbie wah wah, etc) that seem overly flippant for someone trying to get elected as party leader. Plus, I really don't like the way Prom jumped in endoring Kita just because Kita picked him as his party; that felt scummy as hell to me.
Also, I honestly believe syllo's system of keeping his candidates hidden is actually the best approach for right now. Prom's endorsement of kita made me realize it, but if a candidate is openly claiming to want to bring some scum along in his party, then scum is going to do whatever possible to get that person elected. I feel that keeping it hidden will make scum stick out more by being hesitant to vote that person into the position.
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On November 23 2012 03:01 CaveJohnson wrote:I've seen 3s flying around I can't remember who actually said them but there have been claims
You're talking about me. I never said my modifier was 3, in fact the complete opposite. I said I didn't know what my actual "modifier number" was, ie, I didn't know if it was 3, or 100, or 10000, or whatever, just that it was "low".
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On November 23 2012 02:39 TheChronicler wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:34 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:32 kitaman27 wrote:On November 23 2012 02:25 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 02:18 Clarity_nl wrote:
Oh, kush modkilled. He completely read his ability wrong too. He basically suicided.
The one good thing is all town people now have two data points when it comes to HP. This needs to be made clear, please read this.The ability is on PERCENTAGE HEALTH. Thus if kush has 600 max HP and I have 50 max HP, kush still dies as we both have 100% HP. From a town perspective, I'd think you would want it the other way around. Why wouldn't you brush over this fact and let the mafia team think you have tons and tons of hp if you are worried about being hit? I prefer truth over deception to keep myself alive How would you have taken any damage anyways? That post by Kira seems nonsensical.
Sorry, I just wanted to comment on why Kita's sentence made some sense.
When kush shot, he said that "If marv has more HP than I do, then I will die and he will live." After kush died, if scum glanced at his role PM without reading it carefully, they would have seen that kush had 600 HP and possibly have not noticed that the ability was based on % hp rather than a flat amount. So, if marv was townie, the impression to a scum not reading kush's role PM carefully but seeing kush's claim when he shot could potentially think "Oh, damn, marv has more than 600 HP. " which could make them more careful about choosing when to shoot him. Town marv would benefit much, much more from letting the misconception ride. (Caveat: if he actually has MORE than 600 hp, then shutting down the misconception could make sense, as it makes him appear "weaker".)
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On November 23 2012 03:06 Hopeless1der wrote:
Keir, I won't demand an answer here, but do you know anything about your modifier itself or just that you'll inadvertently sabotage events?
I won't sabotage events or anything (I presume). My PM just says that events that I'm in have a lower chance of success.
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On November 23 2012 03:12 marvellosity wrote:
hey Kei baby, how are those scum vibes going?
Ringing pretty steadily. Maybe third party rather than scum though.
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EPT
