On November 26 2012 12:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 12:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 26 2012 12:24 marvellosity wrote:On November 26 2012 12:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Marv, can I hear your thoughts on all of this (re: Hopeless)? your original case a couple pages ago is still the most persuasive thing. A lot of the contradictions that have been pointed out are actually consistent with his convoluted line of thinking, so i don't think they're as damning as they look outwardly. While I agree that the "contradictions" can be explained if we accept that his read was indeed "conditional" (but unmentioned), I'm pretty convinced that the bolded (below) is a scumslip (re: toads alignment). In fact a lot of his recent actions seem to be setting up for Toad to flip non-mafia. I think it's a very legitimate possibility that Toad is a third party role or something. Though this would rely on mafia framing Toad both N1 (Chronicler check) and N2 (Acro check).On November 26 2012 11:28 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 11:15 Promethelax wrote:
also: I read that post from Toad thought "oh cool so not voting Toad is like having a 500 HP vig shot on a vet that many people think is scummy; I'll vote elsewhere thanks" If you had kept your vote off him for a while we could have pressured him with his claimed role but no.
Why did you want the heal over Syllo/Dieno? Why did you think that you were more of a town asset than either of them? I'd say its probably worth another go, and I didn't really think about who could benefit more than me. I'm not a greater asset, now that you ask. And as for the 500hp vig shot, yes in hindsight probably not the best move if we could finish him off. @Hapa: + Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 11:19 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 11:05 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:@ HopelessWell first-off, while I'm interested in hearing your responses, I'm more interested in seeing you scumhunt. But that being said, there are some things I want to hear about: On November 26 2012 10:28 Hopeless1der wrote:I supported sandroba for party leader and I've failed to do anything in terms of scumhunting, I go on to defend sandroba from a lynch, and of course he flips scum. If you weren't getting scumvibes from me, you're giving me too much credit (or too little  ) The townie motivation is...I thought I was right. I was clearly wrong as evidenced by sand's flip. This kind of thing can't be adequately defended against because I hadn't put any effort into the thread and it would come down to "because I said so" as my defense. Its a waste of time, and I'd rather acknowledge the fact that I look scummy and move on. P.S. This was not a ploy like the one I pulled day 1 in Looney, this is me being bad. The fact that I went after Z-Bo is because of the day 1 voting, he just happened to have the case against me at the time. The issue here is that you see "mafia motivation" in your own actions, which is really odd, given that a townie-Hopeless would have less doubts about his actions. Perhaps it was a poor choice of words, but it is a notable choice nonetheless. On November 26 2012 10:45 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
So Hopeless, since you're around, care to comment on my post as a whole? Any insight into your thoughts (particularly regarding TheChronicler and Toad at the time of your votes) would help.
In addition, you mentioned self-inflicted damage. Why didn't you disclose this? For Toad, on the off chance that he was telling the truth, I didn't want him taking damage. Otherwise, redcheck = lynch, and he's dead regardless of the damage he may take. It might have made it happen sooner if we aimed damage at him, but that's like playing into modkills. Secure the lynch if you want scum. If a vig helps you along the way, cool, but play to lynch imo. TC - He was getting pushed by Acro and Z-Bo and I thought he came off looking scummy. I didn't want to lynch sandroba, and TC insisted he was never planning on giving townreads or even using townreads to make his party, and waffled whether or not his plan was bad a couple times. I found it scummy, and the post I voted off of was him saying he'd vote for reasons that are not necessarily connected to being scum (number of votes someone has). As to the damage, its not like its possible to confirm it, so why claim it? I didn't know what Toad would do, but he admitted to having a heal, and I would like one, so what the hell, might as well ask. Uhh... that bolded part makes no sense. You didn't believe TheChronicler's check on Toad, but you believed Acro's check on toad. This would be fine and dandy if Acro wasn't your top scumread right now. Please explain. Also, who's your top scumread atm? Toad claimed in response to TC's check: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 11:50 Toadesstern wrote:When did you check Sandroba and when did you check me? Sandroba just flipped frame busdriver, just asking because I'm not mafia. I'm Johnny the attention-whore robot. I'm leader of a gang and therefore got the biggest ego in town. If I don't get 1 vote per day I take lots and lots of dmg. I don't want to get too much into detail there but I would have taken 500 damage yesterday had noone voted for me. Not entirely sure because of my internet going out but I wasn't able to ask Greymist because of that so I just wanted to be safe because my role already got changed once... Besides being able to literally kill myself I can use one of my machines and charge them for healing powers. I can only charge or heal, not both per night. I hit myself n1 for 100dmg and I should have targeted Hapa this cycle for 100 dmg getting a 2nd charge. Not sure if I can actually copy & paste my role, so I just described it and the best way to play it probably would have been to outright claim it d1 but I wanted to play it out, therefore I tried to be somewhat okayish d1, getting at least 1 vote (thx oats :3 ) and lurked d2, hoping that would do the trick to get a vote on me. It didn't so I started to behave more and more retarded by the minute until I had people voting for me :p Things that I have posted before: Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 06:24 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 06:15 GreYMisT wrote:
Vote Count
Kitaman27 (1): Kitaman27
Djodref (1): djodref
Sandroba (4): risk.nuke, Hopeless1der, Acrofales, kushm4sta
Dienosore (1): Dienosore
Toadesstern (1): Oatsmaster
Syllogism (4): Marvellosity, Clarity_nl, iamperfection, TheChronicler
Acrofales (1): Promethelax
Players who have yet to vote (12): CaveJohnson, Hapahauli, Z-BosoN, strongandbig, goodkarma, BioSC, Keirathi, syllogism, phagga, Adam4167, sandroba, Toadesstern
Remember that voting is mandatory.
All votes must be in by Thursday, Nov 22 11:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Does that mean you can actually vote for yourself? I figured that's not possible oO My role says I need to be voted at least once a day. That's why I said I assumed you can't vote yourself. Greymist told me to change it to "you need to be voted once per cycle by someone OTHER than yourself" Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 00:48 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:36 risk.nuke wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:00 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 23:56 Toadesstern wrote:
@both:
Yeah kind of. I really think that the most likely scenario is that either Sandro or Syllo is mafia. And I am trying to figure things out, hence the Kita vote :p What if Kita is the actual scum, but they're waiting for some gullible town, so their bandwagon seems less suspect when it utterly fails the first event? What if you and Kita are scum together and your feigned naiveté is a calculated ploy? Why Kita, and not GK? Hell, why not Dieno? If your entire reason for voting is that he has no bandwagon behind him, Dieno seems by far the best choice. What is your reason for voting for KITA? And not your reason for voting against Sandro and Syllo, which is a different question. dude I just answered that with the post you quoted... Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it. That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? what do you mean I'm asking the wrong question? And what questions are you referring to? What the hell are you talking about? The fact that you asked about Goodkarma rather than why I'm voting Kita without reasoning. I would have thought the 2nd one should be the more interesting part. On November 23 2012 00:35 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:
[quote]
dude I just answered that with the post you quoted...
Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Perhaps I don't remember your play too well, then. Sure you do illogical things, and half the time I don't understand what your posts are saying, but usually they are part of some big show. I don't think I'm wrong to think this. There's a lack of HypnoToad so far, don't you think? For all I know what you're criticising is "HypnoToad". Remember the game I was the phone booth mason in which you were mafia? I'd say that game was a characteristic "screw this I'm board, let's HypnoToad"-game to the extreme. I'm not planning on doing that again but that's what "HypnoToad" is about. Yeah there was no big fireworks this time around but it's still early in the game, isn't it? So I'm really having troubles with your judgement here. You're telling me there was little HypnoToad in this game so far and yet you're criticising me right now? That just not making sense and again, I feel like you should know better of all the people. On November 23 2012 00:33 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:30 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:23 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:20 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 23 2012 00:12 Toadesstern wrote:On November 23 2012 00:11 Acrofales wrote:On November 23 2012 00:03 Toadesstern wrote:
[quote]
dude I just answered that with the post you quoted...
Well not the 2nd question because that's obviously bullshit but everything else. Okay, let me rephrase: Your ONLY reason for thinking Kita is town is because you think one of Sandro/Syllo is scum. You are therefore blindly following him, implying you think he is not only town, but his judgement is good (and you therefore think Prom, Dieno and I are town as well). Is this a correct assessment of your recent thought process? nope I would like to know why you are seeking to make yourself irrelevant in this town. What is your motivation for making obscure posts without reasoning, and therefore leading town to distrust or ignore what you say? Why do you want this, Toad? I still need to find the guy I want to vote for. Syllo's most recent post was decent and so was Acros. Acro's apparently a bit on the slow side but that's fine. Risk is asking the wrong questions and you are suprisingly suprised about something you know very well and you should definitely not need to ask the questions you did. I would have expected you to just tell me to shut up and stop it without asking why I'm doing it.
That begs the question: why do you feel the need to emphasize on something like that when you shouldn't have to? Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. If you still need to find a guy you want to vote for, why have you made a placeholder vote? In your first post of the game you said you would only be voting for someone you definitely had a townread on. Your play definitely needs emphasizing because it is out of character for you and it is quite important to know why. Okay marv. How many games did we play together? Tell me just one game in which I don't do things with lacking reasoning to get some reactions. I mean I wouldn't put it that way: Why would you expect this at all? The Toad I know for either alignment doesn't seek to marginalise himself like you seem to want to be doing. because that's hardly the intention but I'm doing that literally every single game. Hence my suprise about why you're so puzzled of all people. Oh god, is this Toad the drama queen feeling unloved because he didn't get elected party leader, so will now throw a temper tantrum by playing badly until the rest of town listens to him?
Dude, if you knew :p
I'm going to run to leader every single day from now on. I have to, it's my nature Show nested quote +On November 24 2012 23:11 Toadesstern wrote:and Chronicler, if you really think my mafia meta is to lurk or soft defende people (pretty much everything you said about me) you prooooobably should be voting me as well. I like people voting me, gives me some attention I'm craving for so much, it's in my blood... or well, whatever else :pIf you don't think so could you please stop the nonsensical "OMFG TOAD IS LURKING" or "OMFG TOAD IS SOFTDEFENDING" when I at least admitted the first one myself (the 2nd one was just bullshit) and when clearly neither of those is alignment indicating at all for me. You're a smurf right? You should know me and you should very well know that I'm Mr. HypnoToad, especially in the games I ended up playing as mafia.... LI, never forget oh and hi VE  So do me a favor and actually ready my posts instead of what you're doing right now. Again, would have been best to outright claim it but I wanted to play it out. I had a bullshit postingrestriction last game as well and it freaked me the fuck out that I wasn't allowed to post for 48hours straight when I wanted to so badly. This time I just when chilling and thought I'll live with it instead of stressing me out how horrible this role is. So again: When did you check me and Sandro? And sorry for playing the way I did but I really had to. I don't assume you'll stop lynching me because I might as well make up some ridiculous bullshit and had this planned since the very first hour of the game I guess... Anyway don't listen to Kita, don't lynch Draz. I'm going to use my 200HP heal on someone tonight, I don't think I'll be able to gather another charge if the next cycle is a lynch again and we (somehow oO) got a red check on me after how I played :p He 'explains' how he doesn't need the vote to stick here: + Show Spoiler +On November 25 2012 14:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 13:31 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:26 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:20 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 13:17 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 13:09 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 11:53 Toadesstern wrote:
oh and obviously asking people yesterday about voting me please (I think I asked chronicler & acro) was as well because I still needed the one vote to dodge the 500dmg.
Oh and I'll run for leader, vote me please :3 So... you took 500 damage D1 then? nope. someone voted me. On November 25 2012 13:01 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:57 Toadesstern wrote:On November 25 2012 12:24 Hapahauli wrote:On November 25 2012 12:22 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 25 2012 12:14 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
You're an idiot. He's lying. Oh, you're his scumbuddy? Because that's really the only way I see that statement being both an insult and true. You seem to be forgetting a bunch of things regarding that claim. 1) Toad is scummy as shit. 2) The role isn't necessarily blue - it could be red 3) The role is much more powerful than the other town-alligned roles we've seen so far. except for the part where I take 500 fucking damage if I don't get a vote on me every cycle... Cool. So that changes things why exactly? Hell I have a hard time you're telling the truth about that ability. Secondly, you still have yet to explain this: On November 25 2012 11:55 Hapahauli wrote:
Just to get this straight Toad - you targeted me with 100 damage despite never mentioning me as a scumread in your filter? Ok buddy. I'm redistributing HP a little +EV. I'm hitting people who aren't going to be protected above anything else. I even hit myself n1 to get that charge. Probably (?) would not have gotten the charge had I targeted Sandro because he was lynched. Zzzz, I'm tired of your lies. I have a 1-shot role+alignment check. Used it on you last night. You're Queen Zeal Well no I'm not. Okay, lets entertain the hypnotoad for a little bit, because I'm bored. You are hereby claiming that either TheChronicler and I are both scum and lying, or you were bussed/framed/whatever two nights in a row. I can understand N2, because I was ramping up the heat on you, but N1 as well? Lol. The other thing wrong with your claim is that there were no votes on you D1. At some point Oats voted for you, but at the end of the day there was nobody voting for you... unless you're saying you have a secret doublevoting scumbuddy of course. am I allowed to quote my pm? It says at any point during the day included in the party or get a vote. I asked Greymist about it d1 and he said a single vote on me is enough as long as it's someone elses. I don't need to be in the party and it doesn't have to be like that at the end of the cycle because of the "at any time during the day". Did Chronicle claim to check me n1 or was it n2 as well? I mean if it's n1 there's no point in talking and you'll lynch me either way and I'll just ask you to watch at him after I flip. I highly doubt you're going to stop lynching me even if he says / said n2. I just claimed to get you know, 4 days ahead of time (assuming lynches and events alternate) instead of the moment I flip and have huge chaos. Right now there's not much I can ruin because people will vote for a someone out of the d1-party anyways. It was more a matter of 'what if Toad is telling the truth' than whether or not I believed TC's claim (or Acro's). Very rarely is it a good idea to ignore a claimed redcheck (grush notwithstanding) but its a themed game, crazy shit happens. My scumreads on either Acro or Z-Bo are very dependent on Toad flipping town. If he flips Queen Zeal like Acro says, I eat my words and try to find scum elsewhere, but one thing at a time.
I've yet to go through properly, but I remember Z-Bo being suspicious of Toad because his posting didn't match his LVII game where Toad was an assassin. If he was right, he called it really early and I'd call it an unlikely bus. Ok the bolded makes absolutely no sense with your previous posts. Show nested quote +I think it is very likely that at least 1 scum gave support to sandroba for party leader before the swap to syllo. During the lynch cycle, the following players voted to lynch sandroba that had previously voted him to be party leader: that is all. Acro and Z-Bo voted for Toad, I parked my vote on TheChronicler and then lurked.
To me, that points to one of me, Acro or Z-Bo being scum, and considering draz's moment of inspired thought:+ Show Spoiler +On November 26 2012 02:10 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2012 02:01 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 01:46 Hopeless1der wrote:On November 26 2012 01:38 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 01:24 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:36 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 26 2012 00:22 Djodref wrote:On November 26 2012 00:19 risk.nuke wrote:
Why am I like a ghost in these games. Even when I run for leader I am mostly ignored. I think it's because you are not active enough I won't vote for you by the way, there are some people that I trust more. I understand how you feel if it can do any good to you. It doesn't do me any good, you're free to vote for whoever you want but even if you don't want to vote for me you can still comment on me for everyone's benefit. Well, I would not vote for the following reasons - The waiting game you have played yesterday with your vote on Sandro, nice way for not contributing during a lynch day
- The way you answered kitaman suspicions towards you ("scummy post from a scummy player")
- The fact that you are not active enough, I expect a party leader to have some leadership
- The fact that you take syllo and TheChronicler in your team. Dieno and Oats is better than syllo and Oats. TheChronicler is meh....
I have been active and don't get into sementics, would you had approved if I had said. I'm not going to take my vote of the scummiest player just because he's avoiding the thread. Kitaman had done squat all game which is more then enough to justify the title of scummy behaviour when he showed up with a pisspoor case against me. As I said I don't think Dia is a good addition to the team. Do you believe there are no repercussions to prevent town from beating the game using claims? And in addition to that he's lost the majority of his hp. Hypothetically what if a condition is if a teammember has less then x hp the mission will fail, or maybe it will fail and kill him. Syllo is by far better then both oats and dia, I've considered keith being better then oats aswell. And chronicler is very likely town. He's the one who copchecked toad so unless you think scum is trading 1for1 you shouldn't doubt him. @risk.nukeYou have not been as active as marv for example. I would have liked if you have participated more in the scum hunt during D2. Toad was not so difficult to find for example... (Correct me if I'm wrong but I assumed that you were familiar Toad here) Ok, fair enough. Ok, that's speculating. I have more faith in a town Dieno than in a town syllo, and that's all what matters for me. Anyway, if we present 4 town members, the event is going to succeed for sure I guess. Easy enough imho... What do you mean by "better" ? I'm only caring about the fact that they are more confirmed town. TheChronicler could have bussed Toad with a fake cope claim. The only thing that indicates a town TheChronicler is this copeclaim... you think acro faked his copclaim as well? Acro claimed 1-shot cop on a person who had just been busted by another cop claim. I think it's very convenient. 09:30 - Flip 09:51 - Acro's first post after flip 10:32 - TC's roleclaim and his first post after flip 13:20 - Acro's roleclaim Why would anyone believe Acro? the only interesting thing is he gave us an actual role name but if I was scum in that situation I would know to throw toad under the bus. Doing it after TC's role claim was pointless. If you get a red flip you claim ASAP 1-1 trades are always good for town. No exceptions. Acro's claim SHOULD have been before TC's if it was real. I would go after Acro before Z-Bo, presumably once both Toad and I end up dead for being way more likely to be scum. Your "scumread" on Acro isn't dependent at all on Toad flipping town. It's not even part of your analysis. Hell I'm looking through your filter and I'm seeing all sorts of strange regarding your attitude on Toad. I'll post that in a minute, but I do want to know why you're suggesting your suspicion on Z-Bo/Acro is conditional on Toad flipping town. Acro has a 1-shot role+alignment check on Toad. Its referencd in the post you quoted, through another quote via Draz, I neglected to emphasize it. I still ended with the conclusion that both Toad and I would flip town, and my hopes that our flips would be followed by pressure on Acro/Z-Bo. ockam
Just checking in, I think third party would actually be the Ockham's solution if we assume the only results from cop checks are town and anti town. Which is possible.
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