So anyways I looked back over the D1 lynch to read through it more carefully because it was a huge mess. Here are some of my thoughts on it.
On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote:Final Votecount:DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunkHapahauli has been lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0):
Now the townreads aren't set in stone for everyone I put as town nor are the people I didn't mark green suspicious, this is just based off of the D1 lynch and I would like to make a case for why I think these people are town:
Regarding Z-BosoN
Here is just an outline of my views on ZB throughout the game so far because my town read on him just builds as time has gone on.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 00:41 Kickstart wrote:
@debears
I have a slight scum read on Hapa at the moment, because of what I outlined in that post and the fact that in general I found his posting to be (trying to find the most polite way to phrase it :D) non-productive.
Hopeless hasn't really stood out to me too much. His posting has been under the radar and not sticking his neck out much, almost his entire filter is the discussion about if crossfire is a smurf or not. So overall I view him as slightly "anti-town" thus far. I would just like to hear more of his thoughts on something/someone not related to cross being a smurf or not.
ZB started the SnB bandwagon which I have already stated I am completely against, so I want to see if he sticks with it. In general his posts have been substantive - out of six posts one is a roleclaim, two he casts a vote on someone and gives some explanation, and then the others he is reacting to/reading people. I see no reason yet to question his miller claim, but again a lot of that could change depending on how he continues with the SnB vote.
With that I am going to go to sleep and won't be back on for awhile. I will try and catch up and post before heading to class but if not I have all night once I get back!
So I did not like the whole SnB bandwagon to begin with and therefor was watching how ZB acted around it but off the bat I felt his posts were pro-town and contributing.
ZB came under fire for his new posting habits but the above is part of the reason why I didn't like the meta case and why I refused to lynchvote ZB.
See this quote for more of the same on why I didn't want to lynchvote ZB (made at the time when a large number of votes were on him):
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!).
Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all:Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
Then there is the day 1 voting. ZB was one of the potential lynch candidates and at a point it seemed he was goign to be the lynch (with 8 votes on his head no less!):
Note that this is right before the wild swing of votes to Hapa, so had that note happened it was ZB getting lynched.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote:votecount:DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, KickstartZ-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahaulidebears (1): Hopeless1derHopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debearsCurrently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched!
Full version (disregarded):+ Show Spoiler +debears (2): Z-Boson, strongandbig, Hapahauli, Hopeless1nder, marvellosity, strongandbig
DarthPunk (7): Hapahauli Hapahauli, Clarity_nl, thrawn2112, Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, Blazinghand, Hapahauli, debears, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears
Hopeless1der (0): debears, marvellosity, marvellosity, Z-BosoN, Kickstart, debears, debears
Z-BosoN (4): Blazinghand, iamperfection, Blazinghand, marvellosity, Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99
Hapahauli (0): iamperfection, strongandbig. Kickstart, Blazinghand
Blazinghand (0): iamperfection, Z-BosoN, marvellosity, iamperfection, strongandbig, Crossfire99
iamperfection (0): Hapahauli, Bloatinghand
thrawn2112 (0): Hapahauli
strongandbig (0): DarthPunk, Z-BosoN, Clarity_nl, Hapahauli, DarthPunk
Clarity_nl (0): DarthPunk
marvellosity (0): debears
Crossfire99 (0): marvellosity, debears, Blazinghand
Not voting (0):
Looked bad for our pal ZB so this is "dying post":
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote:
LYNCH HAPAHAULI.
LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3.
marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons.
Turns out he was right (halfway at least but I suspect 100% right ^^). So in summation I've always felt pretty good about ZB and then the D1 lynch just solidified it.
Regarding DarthPunk
Basically I agree with and echo the idea that when DP was set to be lynched, he did an extremely good job of showing that he was town. And an interesting note is that like ZB, when DP thought he was the lynch, he names Hapa and BH aswell :
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote:On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote:
DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie.
So those are my two strong town reads out of the lynch. Again the others I showed as green or did not is only an indication of how I viewed the lynch (some of the people I left unmarked I feel are very likely town for example).
As for the people I had marked as SCUM:
Well, Hapa doesn't need much explaining :D (GJ town!).
Regarding Hopeless1der
Before the lynch I posted my read of him, and so far it all remains relevant:
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 09:57 Kickstart wrote:Regarding Z-BosonI am not comfortable with a lynch on ZB. So he is playing differently and posting less, but when I take a look at his filter I see some very lengthy and thought out posts that offer good analysis. I don't think that lynching him due to him posting differently this game is fair, especially when his posts are pretty significant (I said earlier that even though his filter wasn't large, every post contributed something). I take Hapas word that before this game even started he talked with ZB and ZB discussed wanting to change his posting style a bit (though a skype log would be nice!). Why lynch someone who has changed their posting style when you could be lynching someone who isn't being pro-town at all: Regarding Hopeless1derLook at his filter, there is NO attempt to find scum, the only person he gos after is debears, but only after debears went after him. The first half of his filter is talk about people being afk and/or smurfs - this really doesn't help at all. And his post where he reads debears: + Show Spoiler +On November 14 2012 22:16 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 14:54 debears wrote:
For all you who think me being afk is a scumtell, which you guys are retarded if you do
Let me just say this once. Fuck off debears. Nothing personal, but in all seriousness OMGUS. I'm still your scum read because I've done nothing since you laid into me for 'lecturing town'. If you still want to harp on that chord, you're not being a good little townie. I was afk for longer than you were, and you have nothing new to post in the thread. I'll lay this out for you. This is the post I was "lecturing" about: Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 10:49 DarthPunk wrote:On November 13 2012 10:44 marvellosity wrote:
you can't active lurk in a game that's less than 2 hours old, numbnuts.
If anyone's 'active lurking' it's me. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Don't shut people down who are obviously trying their best to scum hunt and contribute. You are only going to discourage those things. Or is that what you want? I was not lecturing everyone, I was responding to a single post and listing multiple examples of less than stellar reasons to vote for someone. I was told to drop it with you so you could focus on the rest of the game instead, because I was distracting you from being useful. Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).
Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.
The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone And yet I'm still your top scum read and iamperfection is still the only other player you'll really talk about. You haven't commented on anything significant (neither have I yet, but fuck it, you're already voting me) I dont give a shit what your IRL issues are, same as you probably dont care why I was gone. I care that you claim that there are no better cases than the one on me when you have no new information and are just stuck on the fact that I'm afk and therefore avoiding you. What's more, you aren't even pushing me as your scum read. Yes this is an OMGUS vote. ##Vote: debearsAm I going to need to pull a BH and shoot my load earl--I mean sift through my own meta to find examples of me being a jackass? Btw debears, why in the hell were you unable/unwilling to comment on BH's claim? On November 15 2012 06:27 Hopeless1der wrote:
In response to Z-Bo's case on me:
- No comment on BH should still hold merit as an attack against debears, especially if used as a contributing factor to my own scumminess.
Meta read - Earlier you said my meta this game was comparable to LVII. You've 180'd that read. I have no conclusion here, I'm just pointing it out.
Other points from meta: Me referring back to previous cases. I had an actual case to refer back to, and I was also much more convinced by that case. This game, we have me being inactive, Cross being modkillable the first 24 hours or so, thrawn afk, DP afk, BH trolling. Lots of things that just sucked bag. In LVII, we have Matt claim scum super early and the ensuing discussions were getting excessively redundant until Palmar came in and confirmed Matt was fakeclaiming. Before that, I was trying to focus the thread a little. This game is no where near as out of control as that situation was and also (IRL bullshit that no one cares about)
Since BH has claimed, I find debears to be incredibly scummy, and Marv made a point of articulating already. I felt he was scummy before from the way he attacked me for lecturing and it being anti-town. I also felt his meta/smurf's are unreadable comments were contradictory and he was twisting words to make a case on me based on very little information. However, I was explicitly told to drop my suspicions because they were a) poorly thought out and b) distracting debears from helping town.
He hasn't helped town. Hapa's case on debears is spot on (in my heavily biased opinion) and I don't want to lynch anyone else right now. His only reason for voting debears is that debears made a read on him and voted him. And then there is this: Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 09:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Marv's case on Z-Boson - Quite frankly, if it saves me, I'll vote Z-boson, otherwise my vote stays parked on debears. I still think Z-Bo is town though, I just happen to know I'm town. I don't like this at all. Hopeless clearly states that he views ZB is town, earlier in the game ZB makes a small meta case and hopeless doesn't vote him (rightfully so) - but now he will throw his vote on ZB??? You don't scum hunt at all, say you view ZB as town but are willing to vote for him, and keep your vote parked on debears all game solely because debears made a read on you and threw his vote your way. This is not town oriented play in my opinion.
I just feel that his anti-town tone has continued on through the lynch and after. As for the lynch itself hopeless NEVER stuck his neck out, he constantly stayed on debears the entire time (not that hapa temporarily switch over to debears apparantlytrying to start a wagon on him?):
+ Show Spoiler +On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote:##UnvoteYeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. Show nested quote +On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Hopeless
Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears
The only thing that gives me a bit of reservation is that hopeless could have saved hapa had he switched his vote off of debears and put it on ZB at any time. But then I don't really think anyone was expecting hapa to get lynched.
Regarding strongandbig
Just take a look at this guys filter and then couple that with his votes and tell me it isn't suspicious as hell. SnB, like hopeless, never sticks his neck out on any reads and just agrees or disagrees with other peoples points. Couple that with his votes (ignore the hapa vote, it was at the VERY start of the game and it was a complete joke vote; he only votes for debears, blazinghand, and ZB). He was also oddly quiet during the pile onto hapa - while being there to laugh the most and mkae jokes afterwards??
Some reservations I have about snb is that he has gone after both hapa and hopeless postings (hapa who we know is scum and hopeless who I have the strongest read on at the moment), but scum dissing on scum isn't unheard of. Another reservation is that he has gone after BH hardcore, who I would be just as willing to lunch at this point as snb (though I would still rather go after my top read atm - hopeless).
Anyways there you have it, hopefully night actions reveal some more stuffs.
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