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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:40 Blazinghand wrote: just ignore him for now he adds no value to our discourse Well it pisses me off when someone's case on me is "lol you're scumhunting too hard" /rant AAAAAAnnnnyway, whaddya think of him? Stupid townie newbie or scummy? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:41 thrawn2112 wrote: my impression of dp's scum meta is based on what I read from his play in LC. He was wishy washy with his read on kushmasta while trying to mislynch him, not being stubborn as i'd come to expect Really? I was on his team in LC and he seemed super tunnel-y on kush. Though tbh, tunneling townies is part of his scum and town meta. Hence why I have a hard time reading him. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 14 2012 12:47 thrawn2112 wrote: it was all the midway through the game shit with boson, kush, and dp. dp was tunneling kush, but he seemed to not really care too much if kush actually got lynched as long as there was another townie to mislynch. town dp rides his targets into the ground for better or worse From what I remember from Mafia LVII, he tried to ride people into the ground there as well (as scum). I'll look into it, but I'm not all too convinced about the meta read. Still pretty null on DP for the record. He's a little less active than I'm used to seeing him, though he's probably still asleep. Also, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on some other players... howabout debears? I think he's much summier than DP at the moment. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=37#726 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 14 2012 13:10 debears wrote: ugh catching up so far behind right now....let me know up front if you need questions and i'll get to them once i catch up Well this for starters debears: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=37#726 Anywho I'm going to bed - see your answer in the mornin | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
@ SnB Why are you voting the claimed JK? I understand that his claim makes little sense from a town perspective, but it makes even less sense from a scum perspective. Claiming JK in that circumstance is just about the worst thing you can do, not to mention just about the worst role to claim. If he's alive after a cycle or two, it's probably worth looking into him. But today, he's a pretty bad lynch target. Regarding DarthPunk He's very uncharacteristically inactive for his town play, but the same applies to his scum play. I hate having no solid opinion on him, but he's very null to me. His inactivity is not alignment indicative. He's been rather whiny as of late too, but that's pretty unusual for him as either alignment as well. Lynching him is flipping a coin, and I have stronger scumreads than him atm. Regarding Hopeless1der I haven't considered him as much. All I know is that he has a propensity for lurking regardless of alignment. However, I think he's town because of the attention he's getting from debears Regarding debears Pretty convinced he's scum at this point, especially after his last few posts: On November 14 2012 14:15 debears wrote: If you look at my posting before the iamp stuff, I was focused on Hopeless. However, Hopeless failed to post much after that, and he still has. I feel like his lecturing + lack of posting is much more scum indicative than iamp's posting, hence my vote on hopeless and not iamp 1 And about the one liners. It was the first 14-18 hours of d1. Not much to go off of for big cases, especially with thrawn, dp, hopeless, kickstart, and crossfire contributing minimally. Wow that's 5/13 players. Hey thats more than 1/3 of the game!!!!!!!!!!!! Amazing Hapa, why are you focusing me over the above stated 5 players?2 Also Hapa, why are you attacking easy targets: S&B, Kickstart, Me(after i go afk). 3 What happened to your iamp scum read hapa? 4 to I see that you override his in game play with meta on d1. Very interesting 1) I'll get to the iamperfection thing below. I think it's pretty clear that iamperfection was his top scumread. 2) His first instinct when defending his "lack of substance" is to point fingers at 5 other players to deflect attention from himself. I find this horrendously scummy. 3) Again, deflecting attention from himself by accusing me of going after "easy" targets. This isn't coherent given that he just accused me of not going after 5 easier targets pointed out above. In addition, this is just a further deflection, and he's trying to paint himself as this helpless, "easy" target when he is anything but so given the player-group we have. 4) I'd understand him questioning me if he had a scumread on me, but he doesn't. He just floats suspicion out there and since this post (~10 hours ago), he still hasn't called me scummy, pushed his opinion, or done just about anything in relation to my alignment. As for my read-change on iamperfection, we've played A LOT of games together. His meta is very distinctive between his town and scum play, and his actions so far point towards his town meta regardless of his 180. Don't trust me? Ask marv. Don't trust marv? Look at all the analysis about his meta in GSL III Mini. Now debears is really insistant that Hopeless is his top scumread instead of iamperfection when he was questioning iamperfection. This is full of shit. He votes Hopeless1der here for lurking/uselessness - typical early D1 case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=15#282 Debears other substantial post on Hopeless1der is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=23#447 Look how remarkably civil he is to Hopeless. There's no strong "scummy" rhetoric or anything suggesting that Hopeless is a strong scumread of his. He throws a bunch of soft-ball questions at Hopeless which shows to me that he's not all that committed to his read. Now look at his posts on Iamperfection: On November 14 2012 03:04 debears wrote: So marv 1) iamp changes from a town read (pretty convincing one early d1) 2) sheeps on a case when he changes 3) sheeps on a case based off of lack of activity/helpfulness in the first half of d1 with a 180 read That's not strong reasoning. Iamp knows it. That's why he goes out of his way to state the contradictiom. Explanations Town- idk why Scum - trying to look like scumhunter On November 14 2012 04:38 debears wrote: Iamp's switch on Z-Bo is alarming to me. Let me explain why Town read on Z-Bo + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote: zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view. On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. Alright, these two posts seem pretty strong saying that Z-Bo is townie. Note the word use "very risky for scum" and "scum wouldn't put themselves out there like that" On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote: guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue He could be scum he could be vt. I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia?????????? Here he states outright that he has a town read on Z-Bo Note that his town read is a null tell to me. Suspicions of BH ----> Agreeing with BH Next, iamp becomes suspicious of BH + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:31 iamperfection wrote: so uh this guys is like not helping right now and i expect better from him since i hold him in high regards. i say we force his hand. ## Vote Blazinghand Especially since he made it obvious that he was here with his "lol" Note the timestamp. 30 minutes later, this comes out On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote: LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break But that being said ## Unvote Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on. Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what. Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for. This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said. I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. so ## Vote zboson Note the two changes here 1) BH is suddenly town because of one case 30 minutes after iamp's original suspicion 2) Z-Bo is suddenly scum because of BH's case Note his poor reasoning. His first point is BH's reasoning. His second point is the "imperfection rule"...Really??????? Also, remember that it was and is the first half of d1 at this point. Why is he jumping on Z-Bo for two fucking posts? Why is he jumping on a case from a person whom he thought was suspicious 30 minutes prior? See how poor that reasoning is? When you switch from a town read to a scum read, you're reasoning should be pretty good. An apparent guilty conscience Ok. What does this line from his vote post on Z-Bo tell us about iamp? 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time Point 1 is a null tell. Point 2 doesn't make any sense from a townie perspective. What are your guy's thoughts??? Look at how much stronger he's attacking iamperfection. He's much more convinced, he's much more direct, and he's really really pushing the iamperfection case. He mentions several times that he doesn't see any townie perspective from Iamperfection - rhetoric like this is completely absent in his dialogue with Hopeless. My vote is square on Debears. He's using emotional and deflectionary defenses, and his voting makes no sense with his suspicions. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 02:27 thrawn2112 wrote: I don't want to lynch debears today. Here is that post you linked me: You're voting for him because his vote is somewhere different than where his posts were focusing? I'm not convinced by this case and that worries me because I'd thought that a hapa case should be damn convincing. The only problem I have with debears is the large amount of one liners but they're balanced out with several posts of larger content, he asks questions, etc. I don't want to lynch debears, he has been active and eager to participate. Howabout the case I just posted? Convinced now? @ Marv On November 15 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote: I really think DP is a bad lynch. Hopeless or debears. DP does not play uselessly as scum either. Not sold on Hopeless by any measure (mostly because of debears), but I agree we need to consolidate suspicions soon. Whaddy'a think of the debears case I just posted? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
WOWOWOWOWOWOW Hapa is going after someone "scumhunting to hard' instead of not scumhunting, despite his list of rules. What's the #1 thing you look for Hapa? OH YEAH SCUMHUNTING DOH. 2) I pointed out 5 other players because it makes no sense for you to attack me for "scumhunting too hard" when we have 5 lurker-doodles who aren't contributing, at least up to that point 3) Check my meta on why i'm questioning you. I question people who vote me for dogshit reasons. Honestly, I think Hapa and Hopeless are scum I'm going after debears because he's NOT scum hunting. HE IS NOT VOTING FOR HIS TOP SCUMREAD He half-assed pushed Hopeless, put his vote on him, then tunneled the hell out of iamperfection without ever making a commitment. Where in the fuck do I even mention "scumhunting too hard?" That isn't the damn premise of my case. You're deflectionary, your voting makes no sense, and now you're voting for your attacker + lynch-bait. Die scum. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
As for "buddying" BH - how the hell is that scummy, considering he's the claimed, un-counterclaimed JK. I really, really would love to know what you're on BH, and I"d love to have some | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
He's outwardly calling me scum, and not voting for me. AGAIN. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 03:16 debears wrote: The premise of your case is that you ASSUME that iamp was my top scumread when my top scumread was afk. Why wouldn't I fucking push someone else while he's all afk? Hapa's way better than making a case off bad assumptions It's not an assumption. I outline really clearly why that's not the case. You half-assed tunneled Hopeless, softballed him questions, and somehow are calling him your top scumread. You tunneled the motherfuck out of iamperfection and explicitly stated you saw no town motivation in his actions. Yeah that's fucking town debears right there. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 03:21 debears wrote: Yeah it is. lecturing brah is something I hate as town. Look at my last game ffs. your meta reads off on me. Or you don't have one. Idk which What is with this meta read shit? None of this has to do with meta. All of this has to do with you not being able to keep your story straight. Hell your two scumreads right now are a) the person attacking you and b) the top lynch-bait in the game. You made these two reads the second traction started forming on your lynch. Optimal scum strategy in this situation. Coincidence? Naw. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 03:24 debears wrote: Hey guess who was first on hopeless <<<<<<This guy 1 Second, I find your reasons dogshit. You're a good town player. You aren't showing it right now. So I think you're scum 2 Hapa, you like using meta in your reads, yet you don't want to with me. What gives? Make a meta case that proves your point. 3 If you keep saying no, then that means you can't and you're wrong 1) So I'm going to give you townie points for being the first to jump on the easiest player to lynch in the game? Oh wait. 2) I'm not wrong. You're scum. 3) Rofl I have to use a meta read against you? GTFO. You really want a meta read? Your logic is terrible as scum. This is a prime example of it. I'm off to class, be back in a few hours Lynch debears. His recent posting says it all. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Why are there only 3 votes on debears? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 04:06 debears wrote: Hey Hapa 1) I had a scumread on him before you started calling him an "easy player to lynch". You're full of shit. I saw him as scummy wayyyy early. 2) Yeah you must be. Cuz you refuse to show me one. Which means you don't have anything to back you up besides your lazy assumption of iamp being my top scumread 3) My logic is terrible? YOU'RE BETRAYING YOUR OWN RULES OF SCUMHUNTING, ESPECIALLY YOUR MOST IMPORTANT RULE This is yet another example of the rediculous shit that debears is posting. Absolutely none of this makes sense. 1) He's completely ignoring the question. Hopeless has a reputation of being an easy mislynch. Just because you jumped on him early and I didn't let you know BEFORE doesn't make it any less scummy 2) Debears has been screaming that my "assumption" is wrong when I clearly outlined my case and he NEVER addressed it! 3) I'm not betraying my rules - he's desperate to shove words into my mouth. Instead of analyzing my case, he picked my "overkill" point (which I have made in some of my other TOWN games btw, like Rockband Mini) and is obsessed with it. He still has not addressed WHY my assumption is bad, and has been screaming that I'm scum for god knows why. It is no coincidence that the second he became one of the vote candidates, he immediately started tunneling Hopeless (lynch-bait) and myself (his attacker). It's the best way not to reveal information to the thread when you're scared of getting lynched if you're scum. As for Hopeless, I believe he's town due to these debears shenanigans. Also, I believe that Hopeless is capable of doing what he's doing (lurking) as town. I don't believe for a second that debears's ridiculous defenses can come from town debears. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 07:12 iamperfection wrote: Debars-Post your thought on every person in the game theres a good chance that your going to be lynched so no reason to not put your thoughts out there hapa before i put a ton of effort looking through you more closely what do you make of both me and bh weighing in positively on suspicions of you? You have not had as much thread presence that you usually have in my view and you said before that debars voting you was him claiming scum which i dont really buy and i thought it was really un hapa like for day 1? You were suspicious of me? Since when? I obviously disagree with your suspicions, but I don't think you have sinister motives behind it. Regarding BH - I have no idea what to make of it. On the one hand, I think his JK claim is completely non-sensical from a scum perspective. On the other hand, it's questionable from a town perspective as well, and if he's town, he's playing by far the worst game I've ever seen him play. His vote on me for "buddying" is just absolutely terrible. But I still just can't see him claiming JK as scum in his position. I think the JK claim makes him town, but every one of his actions makes me question it again and again. Regarding "presence" - I am really present when I'm around my computer, so I really don't know where you're getting this from. I'm in school in the mornings/afternoons and can't post much (weekdays only). At night though (5pm to 12pm) is when I get most of my posting done in all of my games. As for "debears claiming scum" - I'm very adamant about this. Look at his two main suspicions: an easy mislynch candidate, and his attacker (myself). Not to mention that his vote on me is a PURE OMGUS. This is the best way for scum not to give any information when they die (marv did this in GSL III, attacking me and drazak). Also, he only got suspicious of me and Hopeless the second he came under serious suspicion and became one of the leading candidates. Lastly, just read over my cases. His defenses are diversionary and deflectionary, which I described in detail here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 06:29 Kickstart wrote: I'm here and been following the thread. All the cases against hopeless have been pretty solid and convincing so far and he has yet to give a good response, added to the fact that I already had an anti-town read on him before I think he is a good D1 lynch candidate. Hapa I feel has given several good and well reasoned posts recently spelling out his views on everyone, and just generally being pro-town. That being said, ##unvote ##vote: Hopeless1der On November 15 2012 06:45 Kickstart wrote: I don't have a scum read on debears like some others seem to have, so I don't feel comfortable casting a vote his way. Hapas case against him is unconvincing to me and debears' defence of his posts is how I felt about them to begin with. I also don't think him not mentioning BHs claim is a read one way or the other. Looking through the thread I think debears has made good reads and been on the right side of several issues thus far especially the snb wagon early on. I've heard "unconvincing" this and "unconvincing" that but never any rationale about why you don't agree with me on debears. You have to do more than tell me you don't agree - why don't you agree? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On November 15 2012 07:47 iamperfection wrote: ya i dont want to lynch hopeless. Although there is some silly association stuff that i dont personally like. But at least he is doing what you should if your town and under large pressure near lynch time. Is DP still your top scumread? What makes him scummier than debears at this point? It seems you largely agree with me on him but find DP scummier instead. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF HOPELESS FROM THE BEGINNING. HOLY SHIT.I wasn't under serious suspicion. Now, you're lying Ok this bit is fair, however: HE WAS IN NO WAY THE "EASY LYNCH" WHEN I FIRST HAD SUSPICIONS OF HIM. This is complete bullshit. This coming from the guy who accused me of going after "easy" targets in iamperfection and you. And oh look. I NEVER VOTED YOU HAPA CUZ YOU AREN'T GETTING LYNCHED TODAY. Now, you're making stuff up More lies The voting is a big deal because I still don't see how the hell you arrived at Hopeless being your top scumread. Hell you started all this "OMG OMG HOPELESS SCUM" thing the second I called you out for not pushing him and pushing iamperfection instead. Maybe at some point you'll actually respond to this instead of spouting your "bad assumption" nonsense about your "suspicion" on Hopeless: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=47#937 Hell you're entire read on me is OMGUS and that I'm somehow not following my principles. This is retarded and I can't imagine you'd ever come up with this shit as town. By all means show me how I'm not - the "overkill" read I've mentioned in some of my other town games as well. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. | ||
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