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On November 14 2012 02:41 iamperfection wrote:
I changed my mind deal with it bro. When I get home I might do it again. does that make me scum? If so continue if not don't waste my time
Yes I think it makes you scum. It's not a coherent thought process. Look at how much you rationalize your town read on Z-Boson from that claim:
On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right.
On November 13 2012 09:50 iamperfection wrote:
zbos explained it in his post would have been very risky in my view.
On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote:
i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so.
...then you abandon all of this because of the "iamperfection rule" or some shit like that?
I call BS.
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On November 14 2012 02:43 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:42 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 02:36 marvellosity wrote:
the case on iamp makes zero sense to me, his jumping on Z-bo draws attention to himself massively, for reasons you mention, and I see no reason whatsoever to do that as scum. Well duh it draws attention to himself if I call him out for it, but look at his line of thinking here - he basically completely sheeps BH and only adds the "iamperfection rule." Sheeping someone =/= drawing attention to yourself. It's the exact opposite in fact. don't be stupid. 1) iamp says miller claim is town 2) iamp votes for miller claim of course it's massively drawing attention to himself.
Yes it does draw attention to himself in retrospect, but did he intend to draw intention to himself? I think not. If you look at his vote post, he buries his little "qualification/alibi" sentence at the very end.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434
I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder.
But seriously, you don't question is motive at all here? He did a 180 based on BH's case that you yourself said was questionable at best. Sure iamperfection could have done other things here. But he didn't, and what he just did is scummy as shit.
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On November 14 2012 02:49 marvellosity wrote:
What's the scum motive in blatantly making yourself look bad by contradicting yourself?
The scum motive is in completely abandoning/forgetting a town read for shitty reasons when it's convenient for you to do so (BH's case on Z-Boson). Sure it would be smarter for a potential scum-iamperfection to stick to his story. But he didn't do that, and the alternative here is also scummy in it's own right, regardless of the attention he brought to himself.
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@ Marv
I've seen you super critical of virtually every case brought forth so far with little to offer on your own. What's your top scumread atm?
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On November 14 2012 02:55 marvellosity wrote:
it isn't "convenient" at all.
The hell? BH makes a case, and once it gains traction, iamperfection jumps on it. That's the fucking definition of "convenient"
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On November 14 2012 02:56 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 02:55 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 02:55 marvellosity wrote:
it isn't "convenient" at all. The hell? BH makes a case, and once it gains traction, iamperfection jumps on it. That's the fucking definition of "convenient" what traction? iamp was 2nd on it.
Oh whoops yeah you're right. Could've sworn someone else jumped on it before.
Still though, there's the fact that there was a case on Z-Bo and iamperfection showed no hesitancy to jump on it (despite it being questionable, as well as iamperfections previous read) is still super scummy to me. I want iamperfection to answer for it.
For all you're defending him so far, do you think he's town or is this more of a null thing to you?
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Well I beg to differ marv. My mind is blown that you think that his actions so far are townie. MAYBE null. But town? Good lord.
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Being right in a themed mini with aliases totes makes you right 100% of the time.
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Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. Therefore we have to look at what he did, and the contradiction makes no damn sense from a townie perspective. How the hell do you go from "insta-convinced claim = town" to "I agree with BH case, "iamperfeciton rule", Z-Bo is scum" if you're town. No way. NOOOOO way.
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On November 14 2012 03:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote:
Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. Therefore we have to look at what he did, and the contradiction makes no damn sense from a townie perspective. How the hell do you go from "insta-convinced claim = town" to "I agree with BH case, "iamperfeciton rule", Z-Bo is scum" if you're town. No way. NOOOOO way. why the fuck not? it makes a lot more sense to me as town than it does as scum.
Again.
Going from INSTANT Z-bo = town because of claim....
To "that didn't matter", "iamperfection rule" is not a coherent line of suspicion.
I do not know how you are not seeing this.
But seeing how this is going nowhere fast, your current alternative is Blazinghand. What do you think of his recent posting/activity/whatnot in relation to the scumread?
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Back from school - let's get to work:
Regarding iamperfection
Scumread still stands. I can't reconcile his thought-process at all.
@ Marv
On November 14 2012 06:02 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote:
Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. Therefore we have to look at what he did, and the contradiction makes no damn sense from a townie perspective. How the hell do you go from "insta-convinced claim = town" to "I agree with BH case, "iamperfeciton rule", Z-Bo is scum" if you're town. No way. NOOOOO way. This has been bugging me all afternoon. Sure, we're not in his mind, but the job of a good townie is to PUT yourself in someone else's shoes and try to best work out how/what/why they're doing or have done things. And Hapa knows this too. GSL 3: Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 07:49 Hapahauli wrote:
Tbh, I can't see scum Kei playing this carelessly. I hate to use this read again, but it seems accurate in the games I've played so far - he has this "I don't give a fuck" attitude towards suspicion against him.
Paired with how much effort I know he put into GSL I, I think he's town.
Puts himself in the shoes of a player who was outwardly playing scummily (lurking, not giving reads, etc.). And his read there is that he doesn't see scum Kei doing whatever he was doing. In this game though: Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 03:11 Hapahauli wrote:
Again marv, I don't care what he could have done. We're not in his mind - we don't know what he's thinking. He's not willing to put the same thinking process into iamperfection, and this reeks, especially as my main argument in defence of iamperfection is why the fuck would he vote for Z-Bo of all people after his earlier town read on him. You have to think about what he could/should/would do and what iamp did there does not line up with how I see him playing scum, and for some reason Hapa does not address this. He gives some bad 'scum motive' but at the same time doesn't address anything at all with how iamp in particular was thinking at the time.
I am trying to put myself in iamperfection's shoes, but I simply can't understand how a townie could do a 180 like that. As for my quote that's "bugging" you, you're taking it out of context.
Perhaps I do a poor job of wording it, but my quote above refers to not considering alternative actions as analysis material. I'm saying "I'm not in his mind" in the sense that I don't know why he chose to do what he did, not because I'm unwilling to think from his perspective. Hell I still can't figure out why or how he did his 180 on Z-Bo.
Other Observations - Clarity_nl
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=29#580
On November 14 2012 05:00 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 04:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
Darthpunk... maybe. Best I've got, working on a case right now but not liking how it's turning out. Yeah.... making a case on Darth isn't working, which I think in itself says a lot.... ##Vote DarthPunk
So... you said your case on Darth wasn't working, then forced it anyway and voted him? This is pretty scummy, and you'd have my vote if it wasn't for iamperfection above.
Please explain this - it looks like you're forcing a case through for the sake of it rather than providing actual analysis.
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Oh sniped by some cases on BH. I'll get to that in a bit.
I've always heard that BH's scum-play is notoriously bad, and he seems more fearless than I would expect from his "bad" scum play. I'll take a look at the cases, but that's my first impression of him anywho.
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On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote:
no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes.
His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong.
And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge.
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On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Hapa
What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him"
The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely.
I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me.
I did provide analysis.
So you're suggesting that he's active lurking or something like that?
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On November 14 2012 07:30 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:27 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 07:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Hapa
What I meant was: "I'm having trouble making a case on him"
The reason I said this was because that actually speaks volumes about how he's been playing. 3 pages of filter and nothing to go on, even when you look closely.
I didn't find some "scum gem" in one of his posts and started from there. I had a gut feeling and when I looked into him I found nothing that makes him town or scum, and that's concerning to me.
I did provide analysis. So you're suggesting that he's active lurking or something like that? I'm suggesting that he is blending in. Afterwards it got pointed out that he's also in Acme right now, another active mafia game, and I adjusted my case accordingly.
That's fair - didn't really understand your word-choice at first, but I can't blame ya for it
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Well thanks for breaking the ice there marv. I'm a bit speechless myself.
My first impression is that this is the most needlessly reckless play ever for scum to do. Ever. On the other hand, the claim itself is such an overreaction to the suspicion on him. The former explanation seems more likely to me... but like damn dude...
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On November 14 2012 07:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:56 Hapahauli wrote:
Well thanks for breaking the ice there marv. I'm a bit speechless myself.
My first impression is that this is the most needlessly reckless play ever for scum to do. Ever. On the other hand, the claim itself is such an overreaction to the suspicion on him. The former explanation seems more likely to me... but like damn dude... oh pish, prplhz claimed cop with 3 votes on him in NMM2 day 1 and he was scum.
Well BH isn't prplhz. Prplhz also fake-claimed vigi when we were both masons in Rockband.
(/still bitter)
Do you think this claim is just a random desperate scum act? I have a hard time believing so. Then again I wouldn't have expected a potentially town BH to do this either.
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On November 14 2012 08:10 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote:On November 14 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote:
no Hapa, the point is you're not putting yourself in scum iamp shoes, not town iamp shoes. His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong. And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge. Hapa tunnels me almost always regardless of mine or his alignment i dont get why he seems to think ive committed some sort of crime but whatever he can continue to waste time on me or go for something more legitimate. Either way his tunneling of me doesn't tell me anything about his alignment for the time being. However hapa eventually opens up in his decision making process if he is town. Hapa if your scum just continue to waste my time because it will become so clear that your scum. I did what i did you didnt like it tough for you. Either go cry in corner about it if your scum or find some actual scum.
@ iamp
Can you explain your thought process on Z-Bo to me because I just can't understand it. Why were you so initially convinced he was town based on his claim? Is the case you posted on him the only things you find scummy about him? I can't connect the dots.
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@iamp
##Unvote
From your reactions so far, you're probably town. The "I don't give a fuck" thing has been on full display for the last few hours, and that meta read hasn't been wrong on you yet.
I also do like the post on Z-Bo, but I give him less townie points than you do. Z-Bo can push a read as either allignment, but I do agree he's being open so far.
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On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today
Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player.
So let's get thrawn talking shall we?
##Vote Thrawn
(Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm)
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EPT
