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On November 05 2012 07:49 Clarity_nl wrote:
I haven't done that either. His top scumread was djo, right? Djo has been pushed for most of the day. I've already said that I dislike pushing people who are already being pushed unless they're missing something obvious. Yet he never pushed Djo. He only alluded to doing so. I'm guessing he was actually hoping that someone else would push the Djo lynch letting him sheep onto it. Or possibly that Djo is actually his scum buddy and the whole joke stupidity in the early game was arranged.
Either way, I can't forgive him for just letting his supposedly top scum read go because he wants to be "neutral". For crying out loud he even accuses you of being neutral in order to get everyone to lynch you as I pointed out in my top spoiler in this post.
So he clearly thinks himself that it's ok to lynch you for being neutral, yet he doesn't want to push a lynch himself but would prefer to wait for "more information".
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Obzy, the thing about lists is that it's almost impossible to stay "up to date" on everyone in the thread. So even in the case of a townie making a truthful list there are bound to be reads in a list that look pretty weird/end up being wrong once they read some more of someone's filter. That's a perfect way for scum to push a mislynch based on someone's list not reflecting reality. On the other hand, it's also not particularly hard to "hide" behind a list saying you find some people slightly scummy or that you "don't know much" about someone. All in all, lists don't actually say very much about what someone actually thinks, behaviour does(such as who is this person pushing as scum? who do they listen to in the thread? etc.).
In/actions speak louder than words.
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@Rad
Seeing as you seemingly still can't decide who you want to lynch, what are your thoughts about my case on Cheese? You didn't want to push a debears/clarity lynch, well, what about Cheese?
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Oh, it's two hours from now? I thought it was just one.
Alright then, that makes me a little less worried. I'd still like it if people actually started arguing instead of just sitting back and waiting.
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Someone talked about DST going into effect in the U.S. today I think? Don't remember who it was.
The lynch is one hour later compared to pre DST changes in Europe, but since there were DST changes, it's 2:00 am again for me.
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I'm on CET. OP says "02:00 CET (+01:00 UTC)" which is in 1 hour 41 minutes.
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On November 05 2012 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Everyone seems so concerned on why I haven't been pushing my case on Djo. You know why? Because everything that I find scummy about him, people attribute to his "Djo" attitude and the way he words things. I made a ton of mistakes last game that I find him doing this game. I point them out, but the entire thread is just like "You know, it's just Djo being Djo". Incredibly frustrating. I dropped my case and accusing him of scummy behavior because I actually didn't feel like hitting my head into this brick wall anymore. So, I decided to go back to a neutral stance and look at what other people were doing.
His 180 on pressure voting is something that I found to be damning as hell (Alsn, I think you agree on this?) He explains this by giving some sorry excuse about the difference between suspicion votes and pressure votes and blah blah blah. You know what? Fuck that. Djo is scummy as hell to me. Was last game(regardless of me being scum), is this game. I don't give two shits how he handles the language or his defense. The only reason he gets away with a ton of his posts is because his meta is cheerfully innocent.
/Engageconfirmationbiasgoggles
##Vote: Djodref
Also, Regular Fapper right here. Just fappin' away. I agree that his vote pressure 180 is weird. He's still one of the people that I find most suspicious. I don't agree that it(and his other actions) makes him more scummy than I find you to be because he has at least been displaying townie traits too(most prominently his willingness to push a lynch that no one else had seemed to consider first).
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On November 05 2012 08:23 debears wrote:@AlsnCould you look over Sylver's filter? I see a few worrisome things 1) In an active game, he has been fairly inactive - only 2 pages in the filter. In other words, he isn't invested in the game/the lynch discussion 2) He still hasn't addressed my response to his case Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:08 sylverfyre wrote:
Debears, much of your 'unique reasoning' was full of holes. Anyone can make a case built on scraps, but your cases haven't held together in my eyes. Thus, I think you did it in order to hide the fact that you wanted to point fingers in the same direction as someone else and hide your OMGUSing. 3) His reasoning for voting me was bad 4) His latest troll post Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 06:03 sylverfyre wrote:
oOo Rad, it's a list. Some people think those are scummy to post!
Da0ud is quiet, but he speaks up and contributes when he's around. I can't really call that scummy. I definitely don't think it's worth lynching him over it.
5) He's not here before lynch 6) His reasons for suspicion are pretty ambiguous against me/Djo when there has been plenty said of us Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:43 sylverfyre wrote:
You know what, debears and Djodref are teaming up on someone again. I find it difficult to swallow that the two of them are independently finding the same people scummy. I think one of the two is scum, and I don't know which one. Worth noting that this is the second time that debears has followed up Djo on an attack (though the first time, it was also in defense of himself. This time, there's no such defense. 7) He defends Clarity by throwing out random suspicions on Djo/me/dau0d Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 00:38 sylverfyre wrote:
Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that.
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being crucified for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
I wish he hadn't left so abruptly though.
Da0ud seems in the same boat. He's on the quiet side, and now he's waiting before making another move. 8) He reposts pretty much the same thing an hour later Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:40 sylverfyre wrote:
Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that. He's got a 4 page filter which doesn't read as fluffy to me (I admit I'm just skimming right now)
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being called out for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
His latest posts really make me think he isn't pulling off some active lurking strategies.
BTW, game 1 he had page and a half when he got modkilled. At the same time this game, he has almost twice that. I really can't call that "more passive" even though he's not coming out swinging this game. What do you think Alsn?
1) Null tell/speculation. I wouldn't say he was particularly active in XXIX either before he was shot.
2) I guess he hasn't? I'd like it if he clarified it too, but what does it say really?
3) This I'll give you that he did, but not that it's necessarily a scum tell. It might have felt to him like he had to produce "something" so that people wouldn't suspect him. I'm not sure if I can brand this a scum tell though. If he really believed that you were scum but just couldn't find a good reason for why he thought so it also fits.
4) That post is definitely not helpful at this point.
5) I don't like it either.
6) Actually, that point I actually feel you're wrong. I'd say that statement is pretty clearly an attempt at pointing out why he thinks you are suspicious(him thinking you are hiding behind Djod). I see similarities in my rationale for thinking one of Dandel/Cheese was scum and the other was town last game.
7) I'm not sure what to think of this, is he not allowed to defend clarity and at the same time be suspicious of other people? If he was defending a supposed scum buddy I could see it, but sylver has been suspicious of those names before Clarity was under attack hasn't he? Correct me if I'm wrong.
8) An elaborate EBWOP? I honestly have no clue what to think about that "double" post unless he explains it.
All in all, I think the best point is his weak case against you. But on the other hand, I don't see the scum motivations for in essence sheeping onto me and Clarity in order to get you lynched if you are indeed town. Especially if his scum buddy was Clarity? I guess it depends on who his scum buddy is in that scenario, what he was trying to accomplish by pushing you, but I see it as a little bit too "public" for having clear scum motivations. At least at first glance.
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debears, I'll look into his actual filter instead of your case. It's possible that I'm biased with green goggles because I decided to take his side in the original argument you guys had about him voting you.
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On November 05 2012 08:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I am completely lost now after what just happened.
Is there ANYONE other than sylver here that thinks debears might be scum? Seriously doubting right about now... Not at this time, no. I'm leaning pretty hard town on debears. If nothing else, I think he's been more open about what his actual opinions are this game(last game at this point he had basically only accused Inig and then went missing only to come back and complain about us lynching someone else)
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I haven't actually read page 41 yet. Let me do so.
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Wait, if I'm to understand marv correctly, were some players not aware that the VT role was "regular fapper"? Or what?
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On November 05 2012 09:00 Clarity_nl wrote:
@ Alsn
The reason debears says that is because the OP role says Townie Yea, I get what happened. But can we assume that scum knew about the flavour text or what? I don't see the reason to point it out to us if claiming that means that they are 100% VT no chance of that claim being false? Cause otherwise the game would be over at this point?
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On November 05 2012 09:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I guess the scum did know about the flavor text, but I didn't know they knew about it. Yea and I'm just supposed to take your word for it? For all I know you and Clarity are both scum and you figured since the OP doesn't mention it you'd claim and then say "amagad, we couldn't possibly not be town!".
I think we have to assume the whole flavour thing to be a null tell.
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On November 05 2012 09:08 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 09:07 Alsn wrote:On November 05 2012 09:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I guess the scum did know about the flavor text, but I didn't know they knew about it. Yea and I'm just supposed to take your word for it? For all I know you and Clarity are both scum and you figured since the OP doesn't mention it you'd claim and then say "amagad, we couldn't possibly not be town!". I think we have to assume the whole flavour thing to be a null tell. That means the only new info we have is that Cheese claimed VT..... ? You and Cheese actually. 
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Or wait, I misread your free porn post. I don't know if you claimed or not.
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debears, you found out that what is a mafia oriented move?
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On November 05 2012 09:10 sylverfyre wrote:
Scumteam Cheese Debears? Trying to call out for all VT to roleclaim... ANY kind of mass roleclaim on day 1... no. Just no. No no no no. No way is that something a townie would ask for. Sylver, I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I remember you role fishing as town in XXIX. Or at least saying that you were.
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I'm still convinced Cheese is scum. A VT claim that he thinks will save him an hour before lynch? Way too convenient. Just like it was stated in the post-game of XXIX, convenient claims don't mean much.
He also went out pretty sure of himself in saying "I'm thinking I'll be pretty neutral D1 even in the future" or something like that, only to go "Ohshi, better do something fast!" as soon as I accused him. That seems to suggest to me that he knows my alignment and got caught saying something that wasn't true so he needs to listen to me.
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On November 05 2012 09:23 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay, so your currently reasoning to lynch Cheese is entirely based off of his VT claim? I hope that was directed at someone other than me, I've been pretty clear why I want Cheese lynched.
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EPT
