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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
October 27 2012 05:03 GMT
#30
On October 27 2012 07:37 debears wrote:
Awwww man why is this starting so soon :/

Can't do a newbie, MLP, and this

Guess you'll just have to drop out of MLP and have a replacement take your place.

This has nothing to do with the fact that I'm the first replacement.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
October 27 2012 09:01 GMT
#33
/in

I shan't be modkilled!
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 01 2012 17:59 GMT
#209
Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up.

About Release:
I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today.

As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim.

##Vote Muso
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 01:50 GMT
#244
On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote:
Okay.

I take full responsibility for this situation.

Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault.

1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following:
1. this is a suicide play as scum
2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams,

Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you.

I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla.

2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now.


1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal?

2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim.

I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town...

##Unvote Muso

I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 02:55 GMT
#256
Release, how do you feel about Muso's explanation?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 20:45 GMT
#364
Yeah, sry guys. I've been reading the thread for the last few hours, trying to figure out what I want to do...

I don't feel like voting for Muso. I actually have a slight town read on him. I really wouldn't mind a vig shot on him, though. There's a lot of mystery around him, and he's going to be on my mind for the rest of the game after this D1. A vig would save us the worry.

Looking through Draz's filter, I'm not really liking what I'm seeing. Most of his posts are one-liners that don't even really contribute to scumhunting. His posts seem like a lot of riling people up instead of true scumhunting. Then he gives himself an out for the rest of D1 by saying that it's too crazy to deal with and that he'll have better reads after the night post. Well of course he will - we should all have better reads after a flip. I think he has the best chance of flipping scum so far.

##Vote drazak
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 21:01 GMT
#383
What if Drazak is lying about his name now that you've made it clear that you think all VTs have non-character names?

I'm TNT. See, I can do it too.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, this is a lie.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 21:23 GMT
#403
On November 03 2012 06:21 kushm4sta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:09 Promethelax wrote:
On November 03 2012 06:08 kushm4sta wrote:
##vote muso
cause there's no one else


Does this mean that you have a town read on both Draz and me? If so why? Is Draz's name claim enough for you? What is it about me that makes you so sure?


I don't find you or your predecessor particularly scummy. Also even if I wanted to lynch you I don't think realistically you have a possibility of getting lynched today.

Buy my flavor theory or not. I'm going to vote for the bandwagon that I think has the best chance of flipping red. that is muso right now even tho I think he's probably town.

Wut?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 21:31 GMT
#413
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 21:32 GMT
#417
Also, I'm heading to a meeting now. I may be able to get on for 10 minutes or so before the lynch, but don't count on that too much.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 02 2012 21:33 GMT
#419
On November 03 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Why not promethelax?

I actually have town vibes from Prome. I also never felt too convinced of prplhz's scumminess.

Really gotta go now~
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 00:26 GMT
#515
On November 04 2012 09:00 DarthPunk wrote:
So unless a vig claims I am going to assume we have a serial killer.

I felt like Release was getting at something, but now I'm not so sure. I'll be assuming the same, I suppose...
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 13:01 GMT
#545
Hi all.

I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 15:15 GMT
#572
On November 04 2012 02:47 DarthPunk wrote:I have a scum read on drazak. He has posted mainly one liners commenting on the by play of proceedings rather than bring any original thought or information to the thread.

He has also been consistently wishy-washy in his posting.

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 23:36 drazak wrote:
Yeah, I'm getting a bit fed up with Kush asking for everyone to claim everything, that smells a little scummy to me. Kind of not sure if it's just kush being stupid and trolling like usual (yes, I know, I'm omgusing, don't care) or if he's actually got a larger scheme here.

Kush has admited to me a bunch of times that he doesn't thinks before he posts, so I dunno, but he keeps being stupid I think we can chalk it up to stupidity/trolling, if he stops, it was probably a scheme.

I'm not sure what to think about prom, the case against him is ok, but maybe prplhz was distracted and/or confused.


Like I was going to go through this post and bold the wishy-washy bits but then I may as well have bolded the entire post.

Just read that and find one solid statement. Because I sure as hell can't. But note the part I have bolded and then read drazak's subsequent series of posts which stuck out to me quite starkly.

He goes from wishy washy on kush. Saying he could be scummy. Then he posts his role name somewhat aggressively.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 05:53 drazak wrote:
Kush, do you even read my posts? Also, trying to write a long post in another window, hold on a bit. I'm a VT, Carrot, btw.


After which kush thinks he is town based on his theory with the flavor immediatly after kush unvotes him and declares him to be town. Drazak posts his 'reads'

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:07 drazak wrote:
Release actually tried to scumhunt, I'm seeing town on him, even though he still wants to vote for me. I don't think he's done anything to cause confusion, and I think he really wants to find a mafia right now, which is what I'm trying to do.

Mattchew is also looking town, although I'd like him to be a bit more active, I don't think he'd say that he likes his gut instincts D1 if he didn't believe in them and have somewhat decent evidence, less town than release but definitely a town read.

Hope has about the right amount of defensiveness for a townie, he's gone to lurk mode around lynch time which makes me a little nervous, everyone else seems to be here and willing to talk except him. Not sure what he's up to but when he starts posting again I hope he has a good explaination, I'm neutral on him right now.

Thrawn has been trying his damnedest to scumhunt for a D1 hunt, not sure what he thinks he might actually accomplish, but he's asking questions like I should be (but I don't because I suck ) and trying to make things happen. I find him distinctly town at the moment.

risk.nuke has not a lot to go on in his filter, and every single one of his comments is 1 line and most of them are fluffy. I think this is even worse than my posts have been. I find him 2nd scummiest after muso.

Kush is just doing his fucking trolly ass shit. Town meta for him 100%

Zealos doesn't vote anyone and isn't happy with Acro or Muso, not sure what to think here, he wants to vote two of my town reads, not sure I like this, but might just not be following that closely.


First of all I hate lists such as these. They allow scum to seem to participate without actually doing anything. A few sentences on several players comprise drazak's 'reads' HOWEVER. Note the read on kush. He has gone from scummy and wishy-washy to 100% town meta. IMMEDIATELY after kush declares a town read on drazak. It seems as if Drazaks opinion of someones scumminess is linked to their opinion on draz. Now THAT is scummy to me. Combined with all the wishy-washy posting and fluff one liners. I would certainly like to lynch drazak.

Snipped out the drazak portion.

While I'm by no means certain of it (as I am rarely certain of anything), I'm back to thinking there's a strong chance that drazak will flip scum. I realized while considering this case that too often I immediately give people the benefit of the doubt. That being said, here's my analysis. Firstly, I don't see wishy-washiness as a very strong scum tell. This is because I am probably the wishy-washiest player who has ever played on TL and I've only rolled scum once. I understand that it is a scum tell for other people, but I just can't see it that way. That being said, the fact that drazak's read on kush seemed to change as a direct result of kush's read on drazak changing certainly feels scummy. I didn't feel a particular change in kush's play during that time. In addition, this recent post from him makes me feel like he thinks kush is scummy again, despite the fact that he said kush was 100% playing to his town meta:
On November 04 2012 22:03 drazak wrote:
so... we've got an sk for sure? No way that was a vig shot or something?

Hey kush, why did you bluehunt so hard, I'm not cool with that.

Finally, what DP said about the "list of reads" posts are what made me realize what makes me so wishy-washy. On that point I was reading drazak's posts as a townie trying to avoid a mislynch without equally considering that it was scum trying to avoid a legitimate lynch. Given that everything I've previously mentioned about drazak's play still holds true imo, he's my top scumread at the moment.

@Drazak
What made you switch from "kush looks kinda scummy" to "kush is playing 100% to his town meta"? And do you now think kush is playing scummy again?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 15:30 GMT
#574
You said hope was your second scumread, are there any reasons other than lurking? I feel that he's contributed more than me, though I haven't given him much thought so far.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 17:39 GMT
#581
I'm still looking through Acro and Prome's filters, since I had a town read on both of them and apparently many people disagree. Glad to hear thrawn and Kush are both reasonably confirmed town.

One question: if there is an SK is it definitely mylo? Can't scum and SK kill each other?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 18:32 GMT
#585
Nothing at all. The question was independent of the statement.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 04 2012 19:24 GMT
#595
First of all, I completely missed your request for my top three scumreads from you Acro. My apologies.

I actually don't think I have three at the moment. Drazak is definitely one of them. I'm still waiting on a response from him.

After reading your case against Release, which makes a lot of sense, he's back on the list. His immediate appearance in the thread, as you've pointed out, strengthens the case. I'd make him the second one.

Third... I'm not sure. I'm going to look at Prome's D2 as a whole, instead of in individual posts to see if I see the same things Hope does. One thing that struck me as odd was when risk posted about Prome fake claiming being roleblocked, simply because the same thought occurred to me as well. I accepted Acro's claim immediately, but Prome's made me feel weird about him. I don't know why, but maybe my read through his D2 will give me some insight. Right now it's just a bad feeling accompanying my earlier town read. However, as Acro pointed out, it's easy to act town for a while to save yourself or your scumbuddies, but if you have to do it over an extended period of time you'll probably slip up somehow.

Finally, my school's cdl team just roped me into streaming and casting our team's match in 45 minutes, so I have to get ready for that. I should be back in about... four hours at most.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 07:53 GMT
#625
It's been a long weekend, and I passed out after my casting XD I'm going to get a few more hours of sleep after this, but I wanted to get my comments in before getting in bed for real.

@Acro: I have to be honest and say that Prome is escaping me. I don't know what to think about him. D1 he seemed really townish, and I feel like I have to force scummy motives for his D2 posts to make me see him as scum. I did get a "lie" feeling from his rb claim, but looking back I don't see a reason for it. My instinct is to find him town. Do you agree with Hopeless's recent post on him? If you do, could you point out a post or two where he is being active but not scumhunting? I think I have trouble discerning the difference.

@Hopeless: Could you point out a post or two where Prome is being active but not scumhunting?

@Prome: Regarding your earlier request of me, my vague read on you is above. My read on Acro is pretty strong town. Regarding your latest post, I agree that Draz is the best lynch today. Acro referring to your "scum buddy" doesn't seem scummy to me. If he said "scum buddies" instead then someone could say "how do you know there's more than one scumbuddy?!?" and it would be the same situation. I think it's kind of arbitrary. As far as the RB thing, I can't really think of a reason. I've mentioned above that it was probably just a weird feeling I had. I'm trying to ignore it.

@Kush: You can see indecisiveness and inherent guilt in every one of my games here. You've basically described my meta perfectly. The difference in this case is that I don't have far more experienced players who understand my meta in this game to defend me from my own shortcomings. This means I have to explain it to those who haven't played with me before so that they don't jump down my throat for something that I've done in every game. You've essentially accused me of playing to my meta (I won't say town meta, since I don't even have a full scum game here) and being honest/transparent. It's actually a bit strange, because you've actually played with me before and should understand this. Oh, and what are your reasons for wanting to lynch hopeless?

thrawn's recent post resonates with me pretty strongly regarding Release. After he returned, aside from the lurky re-entrance to the thread, I got the same feeling from him that I had earlier. He seems genuine and upfront. I'm back to leaning town for him.

I feel like I've missed something I meant to talk about, but I can't keep my eyes open anymore. I'll see you guys in the morning.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 19:50 GMT
#679
Man this post took a while. I'm back and I should be at my computer until the end of the day (right after a shower, as I just woke up).

I was just doing some reading, I had a flash of brilliance as I slept and remembered thinking that Fuba played a lot better than this when I last played with him.
Looking back at my history I finally found the game he was in with me, NMM XXIII, in that game (both iterations of it, one in which he was scum and the other he was town) he played an active and interested game. He says now that there are always people defending him based on his scummy meta but I don't find that to be accurate. In NMM XXIII he did not appear scummy and played as if he cared.
His behavior this game has been totally different and anti-town, while I don't know if Kush, Draz or Release can play a better game I am confidant that Fuba can. I was planning on putting a pressure vote on him to post his reads when I last posted but edited it out before I posted becasue I didn't feel that there was a real case on him. Now that I have looked back at him I am placing a real vote, no pressure intended, just looking at scum.

That was my very first game, and I was genuinely more excited and able to participate than I am now. If anyone is going to look into NMM XXIII, keep in mind that the first half of my filter is scum mkfuba, and the second half is town mkfuba. And I didn't mean to imply that I had people defending me all the time, I simply meant that there were always people there that understood my meta and would be able to explain that I am wishy washy in all of my games (possibly excluding that one, I don't exactly remember). If someone would have called me out as wishy-washy, there would be marv, or hapa, or even blazinghand once to point out that I regularly play this way. In this game, I had to do it myself because I don't think anyone else would do it for me. And how often do you implicitly trust someone when they talk about their own scummy meta after being called out as scum? Not very often. For that reason, I explicitly stated how I felt and what was going on throughout the entire game.

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:59 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up.

About Release:
I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today.

As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim.

##Vote Muso


This is on page 11, where both Acro and Muso had claimed but well before we knew that either had fake claimed. What we see is that Fub is voting based on the fake claim of muso. As was everyone, note though that his reason is completely comprised of that one facet of muso's play.

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 10:50 mkfuba07 wrote:
On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote:
Okay.

I take full responsibility for this situation.

Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault.

1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following:
1. this is a suicide play as scum
2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams,

Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you.

I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla.

2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now.


1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal?

2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim.

I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town...

##Unvote Muso

I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later.

And now that it is confirmed that Muso fake claimed (the reason that Fuba voted him) Fuba unvotes him. There is literally no reason for town to change their read at this point, nothing about the situation has changed in Fuba's mind. Muso had fake claimed when Fuba first posted and he had Fake claimed when Fuba next posted, how did this change from a scum read to a town read? And, to the sentence I highlighted we see that Fuba has left himself totally open to vote switch back onto Muso to make this mislynch happen.

Don't tell me what has or has not changed in my mind. You have no idea what kind of shit goes on in here. My mind changes between the time it takes to hit "enter" and the screen to refresh after I've posted.
I may have mentioned that it takes me an eternity to read, analyze, and write up posts before. If I haven't, let this be the post that I can point back to in future games and say, "Yes, I have said that. It is at least part of how I play as town." The post you quoted probably took me at least 45 minutes to write. Over that time, I came to a few conclusions. When I say I talk myself in circles all the time, this is one example. I feel that the red numbering and skeptical manner in which I ask the questions indicate that I wasn't inclined to believe him. By the end of that 45 minutes, however, I had the time to think about it. As you bolded, I did see more potential scum motivation, but his explanation fit within the bounds of town reasoning. Sure, not typical TL reasoning, but from it I was ever-so-slightly leaning town on him. As for "leaving myself totally open to switch back onto Muso to make a mislynch happen", anyone who doesn't say that someone is 100% scum or town is open to switch on and off of them. Either way, that is where I stood.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
What if Drazak is lying about his name now that you've made it clear that you think all VTs have non-character names?

I'm TNT. See, I can do it too.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, this is a lie.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Your flavour theory is bunk and I am showing how bunk it is by saying that I am town.
No, wait, I take it back, the lynch is close, haha lols totally swayed by it. Also don't mind how scummy I look, I always look scummy d1.

...sure.


I implicitly state that I was lying in that post. If someone was swayed into thinking I was town because I wrote a fake name in bolded green text then that's something I won't apologize for. I really wouldn't expect that statement to sway anyone. I wanted to see if kush was really serious about his flavor theory. I know that that kind of analysis would lead to scum gaining more information than town, so I wanted to stop him from going much further (what better way for sk to get scum to shoot all the blues than to point out all the VTs in the thread and point scum in their direction?). That being said, I had reason to believe that he might have been on to something. My reason for switching off of Draz wasn't exclusively the flavor thing. It was his manner of posting at the time. As for me looking scummy D1: this game I was scummy enough to be shot D1, this post and this post speak to my wishi-washiness and adherence to my "feelings" while playing, particularly around the D1 lynch. Those are the main games that I think about when I consider my meta, probably because they're more recent than my newbie games and they're games against people that are more experienced than me, which always makes me edgy.

Fuba follows this up with an out for the rest of the day until the lynch
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:32 mkfuba07 wrote:
Also, I'm heading to a meeting now. I may be able to get on for 10 minutes or so before the lynch, but don't count on that too much.

I don't even see how that's scummy. I told you a fact. If you want more information, I had a meeting at 5, it was 4:30, it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk there, I don't have the ID to access the internet in that location and would have to borrow a friend's, and it takes my laptop like 10 minutes to boot up because it's old and I don't take care of it. Believe me, I have plenty more "outs" I could have given myself, but instead I've at least tried to play as much as I could. Is it my best play? Absolutely not. Somehow I was better as a newbie than I have been in any of my other games. It could be my worst game, since there's no vig to shoot me. But it's still town me.

and after that gives a town read on a player who is under a lot of pressure and could easily be a vig shot that night (me), if you assume that I am town this looks weird. While I think that I have been playing townie the most vocal players in this game disagree. I have a hard time seeing fuba having his own very different read when he jumped into this game late (see his first post) and had to leave well before lynch (see the last post I quoted). He also manages to give a very light town read on prp's play in the same place he gives me a by before jumping thread.
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:33 mkfuba07 wrote:
On November 03 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:
On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Why not promethelax?

I actually have town vibes from Prome. I also never felt too convinced of prplhz's scumminess.

Really gotta go now~

I don't get how anyone did not see the scummyness in prp's play. As Marv said, in Your Clothes Give Them to Me, prp always seems scummy d1.

Sorry I have a single thought independent of Acro. In almost all other matters I feel like I'm sheeping him, which is something I typically do with experienced players that I believe to be town (usually marv or hapa). I didn't find you scummy, so I didn't vote for you. You think that scum fuba was giving a town read on a townie so that when he flipped town he would look like a townie too? That would gain me nothing, and you know it. This entire point is irrelevant. Oh, and I gave a null read to prplhz.


Next we get Fuba's return to thread:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2012 22:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all.

I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD


guys, I'm a newb, I'm bad, help me. Giving himself excuses and outs. This whole filter is scummy. After all this Fuba posts a whishy washy list in which everyone is called slightly town or he has a town read on, now though he agrees with Thrawn about Release. Remember when Fuba found Draz scummy enough to unvote Muso and vote draz? Yeah, neither does Fuba he hasn't managed to address his read on Draz again this cycle. Fuba is scum.

Just stating facts, trying to get back into the game as soon as possible. I don't know how to just jump back into the game. I usually do it by asking a question, but then people later say, "After all of this discussion, this is all he had to say?!? A-ha! We've found ourselves some scum!" This time I decided to just ask what you guys wanted me to talk about. And sometimes excuses are legitimate. My friends needed a caster/streamer, and I was the only one available (it went awfully, btw). And the "wishy washy list" is a list of facts as I saw them. I had a town read on both you and Acro, but everyone's disagreeing about that so I went back and took another look (unfortunately inconclusive, but I can't do anything about that). And thrawn and kush were basically confirmed town, though it later occurred to me that there's a godfather and possibly an innocent sk, and also that I feel either of those roles could fit kush perfectly this game.

And I didn't forget Draz. I asked him a question, and he returned to the thread while I was asleep. Not that actually pushing my scumreads is part of my meta either. I planned on doing that this game, but how do you pressure someone who's not here to respond to you?

TL:DR
Fuba gives himself outs so that he doesn't have to post reads, unvotes Muso for the same reason he voted Muso and drops his scum read on Draz without any of his problems with Draz being addressed.

Mkfuba is Scum and I will be voting for and pushing him today. Acro, since you are the only other active player I'd love your input (though I'm still not convinced that you are town).

False, false, and false (though the third point is consistent with my town meta).

What you have is a case against town Fuba who has far less time on his hands than he was expecting, in a game where nothing has gone the way it has in the past. And while lynching me may not be a loss for town from a contribution standpoint, it's a wasted lynch, and I'll just be added to the list with Mattchew and Zealos.

I have one question for you: As all of your experience with me is based around my first game of mafia ever, you have the unique perspective of having equally experienced my town AND scum games. Do I feel like I'm playing like I did in either of them?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:31 GMT
#734
I can't get anything in mafia done in five minutes, lol.

kush, you understand me so well it makes it hard to keep calling you an evil godfather or sk <3

I definitely don't want a no-lynch. Town only has so many opportunities to kill scum, and without a vig, or possibly a vig who saved his shot and is aiming at me tonight, I don't think no-lynching is the best call.

Draz is now second on my scumlist, and his participation since returning hasn't changed my view on him. I maintain that I would be more than willing to vote for kush, as his play this game seems very conducive to an SK playstyle imo. The pesky green check is getting in the way, though.

Since a kush lynch is pretty impossible at this moment, and most people have shown an aversion to lynching drazak today, I'm going to place my vote on hopeless1der. I was more convinced of his scumminess than towniness by Acro's case. Particularly the scummy mindset portion. My strongest opposition for a hope lynch is that drazak is also voting for him, but his wasn't a particularly strong case. I think hopeless has a stronger possibility of flipping scum than town.

##Vote hopeless1der

I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from Prome, but other people have a point in that today hasn't been as convincing of his towniness as D1 most certainly was.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:33 GMT
#735
Oh, to avoid a no-lynch I will sheep my top town read: Acro. I'd rather not lynch him, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:34 GMT
#737
EBWOP: I'd rather not lynch Prome today, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today.

in-post edit: I also think the wide array of votes at the moment could indicate scum trying to spread out the vote. That is another reason that I am willing to vote Prome.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:41 GMT
#744
On November 06 2012 06:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:
I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum (


uh

what do you guys think about lynching drazak

I'm for it.

##Unvote
##Vote drazak
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:43 GMT
#747
I've been here the whole time. I take a while to read and write. Not sure if I've mentioned that
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:49 GMT
#751
He's been a scumread of mine all day. I liked DP's case against him. His posting since coming back hasn't changed my mind. Most of his posts are clarifying what others have said and interjecting assorted comments. I think he's posting without posting, if that makes sense.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:51 GMT
#755
On November 06 2012 06:46 risk.nuke wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 06:43 mkfuba07 wrote:
I've been here the whole time. I take a while to read and write. Not sure if I've mentioned that

Yeah, then why did you refuse to make yourself and your opinions known when specifically requested several times. Right now you smell like last minute show-up-to-vote. Granted both townies and scum can do it but it sure as hell isn't something that makes you look townie in my eyes.

Was I called out this morning without responding? I don't think I see anything that I missed...
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 21:56 GMT
#761
Either people stop pointing out that I haven't responded to things quickly enough, or I keep telling everyone exactly why I take so long to write anything. One explains the other. There's no way around it. Stop telling me to stop telling the truth. Thanks.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:11 GMT
#779
##Unvote
##Vote hopeless1der
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:13 GMT
#784
rofl
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:42 GMT
#801
Yeah, I thought prome was being sarcastic about kush. Not sure though.

Is there anything you want me to talk about for the next 20 minutes? I don't want to lynch DP.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:44 GMT
#807
Prome: You didn't consider that all of the scum are already voting for him?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:48 GMT
#817
... Why would I mean that five people are scum? It just seems strange that you suggest that the last person to vote is going to be scum or you regretfully hammering him. The option I mentioned involved 2-3 (likely 3) scum voting for him already. Your two scumreads are both voting for him already. Why leave out the possibility that all three are already on it and can't pull any townies in for the hammer?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 22:54 GMT
#838
On November 06 2012 07:50 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 07:48 mkfuba07 wrote:
... Why would I mean that five people are scum? It just seems strange that you suggest that the last person to vote is going to be scum or you regretfully hammering him. The option I mentioned involved 2-3 (likely 3) scum voting for him already. Your two scumreads are both voting for him already. Why leave out the possibility that all three are already on it and can't pull any townies in for the hammer?


Wait so you think all three scum are on this wagon?

No. I just believe that it is a possibility that he overlooked. For him, I feel it should have been viable (since both myself and Acro are voting for him already).
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:05 GMT
#860
YES!
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:17 GMT
#885
On November 06 2012 08:17 Acrofales wrote:
Oh, and Kush was just being dumb. There cannot be two godfathers.

SK?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:20 GMT
#889
Oh shit, framer shows opposite alignment, not just scum to all checks. I didn't even notice that. Will keep in mind.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:45 GMT
#929
Have fun prome
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:54 GMT
#934
I don't know why, but something about draz is making me think he's actually town. Doesn't it seem like a really stupid move to pull that shit after having your vote parked on him all day? Like, I feel like his plan as scum would have been to bus hope, so why would he pull that shit right around the deadline? It would have been his whole purpose behind voting hope in the first place? Does that make sense?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 05 2012 23:58 GMT
#937
locked at 1
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 14:50 GMT
#985
Thrawn, when you're back, what are your current thoughts on kush?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 15:59 GMT
#1000
Haha prome...

I'm in class, reading and responding when I have time.

You've all made it quite clear by this point why his switching was scummy. Sometimes I need a bit of explanation. I'm back on the drazak wagon.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 16:00 GMT
#1001
Oh, and I *apologize* if you see my being in class as another *excuse*
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 16:13 GMT
#1004
Other reads will come later.

When I reconsidered draz, I found it strange that anyone who was scum, who had parked his vote on a scumbuddy for 48 hours, would switch off at such an incredibly suspicious time. At that point, I wouldn't consider doing that in my wildest dreams.

Two things "reconvinced" me of his scumminess. First, my own realization that I probably wouldn't have done that as town either. It is not something that I would do as either alignment (I believe). Second, was everyone pointing out who he ended up switching his vote to. Draz had Prome as a kind of regrettable vote - he supposedly didn't want to vote for Prome unless there were no other options. Despite that, he unvotes hopeless and votes you. That is scummy.

Oh, and everything I've said about him before XD
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 16:25 GMT
#1006
You'll get them before night ends.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 17:26 GMT
#1009
On November 04 2012 08:38 kushm4sta wrote:
My flavor theory grows stronger...
town- non character
power roles- villain
mafia/sk- hero (bugs bunny, jessica rabbit, road runner)

Which of kush's "vt names" has flipped scum, again?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 17:34 GMT
#1013
How about kush accepting one of his "scum names" as a 1 shop role cop?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 17:35 GMT
#1015
EBWOP: AND kush not then dropping his flavor theory, since he clearly disagreed with it at that point?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 17:35 GMT
#1016
EBWOP AGAIN: meant cop, not rolecop <.<
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 17:40 GMT
#1018
So I take it you didn't find it strange that despite kush's over-adherence to his flavor theory, he still found your claim to be legit even though he listed your name explicitly as one of the possible scum names?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 18:21 GMT
#1026
Does the SK get alerted if he blocks a shot if he chooses 1-shot immunity?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 18:23 GMT
#1030
Ah, thank you.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 18:37 GMT
#1036
Wait for it.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 19:49 GMT
#1043
Scum, you should kill the SK now. He's going to turn at least one of you in tomorrow if you don't.

And SK, scum is probably going to kill you. Should probably kill them. It's for the best.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:02 GMT
#1068
Part 1: The Claim

I am Tasmanian Devil - One shot Jailkeeper


Apparently I decided to consolidate all of my posting for the game into a single post. Sorry about that. I think it's worth it though.

A few issues with this:
1) The way the Jailkeeper spoiler in the OP is phrased, I misunderstood what Jailkeeper was capable of in this setup. I thought I was only capable of saving, not roleblocking. Yes, I know what a jailer is normally capable of, but coming out of LC mafia and after looking at the C9++ setup and not seeing a jailer but seeing a medic, I assumed I was basically the medic. Therefore, my mind jumped right to my role breadcrumb from LC mafia. It was my mistake, but I hope it doesn't ruin everything I'm about to say.
2) Since I only have one action for the game, I couldn't exactly mimic my crumb from LC ("I'm going to save austinmcc the trouble..."). All I had this game was this post where I say that "A vig would save us the worry." It was all I was able to come up with at the time (both due to time restrictions as well as creativity issues), and I figured that I would simply breadcrumb my action later and all would be well. Thinking about it now, there's little reason to believe this claim, but I am putting it out there because I can only use my ability once, and this will narrow down the scum field if I am able to convince you.
3) Apparently I say "save" more than I thought I did. That's the "breadcrumb" I used in LC to hint at my role, while the better crumbs were regarding who I actually checked. Essentially, my action crumbs have been more convincing than my role crumbs. As my only crumb at the moment is that I said "save" earlier (then later said it about three more times after a search of my own filter XD), my crumb is considerably weak.

Some comments of mine that I believe lend credence to my claim:

Any time I say kush's flavor theory is somewhat swaying me. D1 it was because I didn't have one of those non-character names. D2 it was because obviously my name is in line with Daffy Duck and Sylvester. The flaw that popped up later: Bugs Bunny, I will comment on later.

My reason for not using my power during the first day:

I am a one-shot jailkeeper, and I didn't want to waste two town abilities if I accidentally hit another blue role. I was also far more unsure of things than I am today. I think that today there will be more to gain from my action than if I had randomly selected someone yesterday.

Why am I claiming now?

Because my play has been pretty much abysmal, and I really don't want to get myself lynched tomorrow or shot by someone without having the opportunity to help town if I can with my host-given abilities. I also think that scum or sk may have gotten wind of some of the subtext in my posts and might be gunning for me tonight. And as I said before, if I am able to convince you of this then one more person is eliminated from the scumpool.

After all of the writing I did below, everything I said above is pretty much irrelevant. I think I probably drew a vigi shot or possibly two in the last few hours, and am likely to die, but I think it was worth it. At the very least I possibly saved one of my townreads (Prome) and I believe I've given two great options for a lynch.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:02 GMT
#1069
Part 2: The Scumreads

My current feelings on various players:

Drazak
Honestly, 'nuff said. I did doubt the scumminess of his actions around the lynch, but after reading through what others have said I am convinced at the very least that it is not a town tell. If you add that to how I previously felt about him, he still turns up scum.

Crazy theory time, because it's falling together in my head just about perfectly. I feel like each of these players could be scum/sk on their own merits, but the way they're interacting is quite interesting. Much of this will be a scenario that I've constructed around a few particularly... odd facts about their interactions, but I maintain that both of these players should be lynched. I say it again, if you don't exactly buy into the case as a whole, analyze it for it's individual components and realize that they're both playing incredibly strangely. I have done my best to explain it, but not being scum or SK, I cannot possibly know everything.

Kush + Thrawn Timeline
kush has his flavor theory (I think this is the first mention of it)
N2 Starts
thrawn's breadcrumb
kush's theory grows stronger
kush's reads so far are based exclusively on his flavor theory
thrawn claims Bugs Bunny
thrawn asks if kush believes his claim A.K.A. "Kush, do you understand what's going on?"
kush believes thrawn's claim A.K.A "Yes, I understand"
Kush unvoting hopeless1der because of the flavor theory
only now is the flavor theory wrong

kush
sk
I don't feel like he's been playing to either of his metas (though I admittedly haven't heavily analyzed his meta because I find it to be a daunting task). People who have said that he is playing to his town meta (specifically drazak): Can you point out a game where he spent the majority of his posts analyzing the flavor text or some other aspect of the game that has nothing to do with someone's behaviour? His posts seem almost exclusively centered around bluefishing, which would be a good goal for a serial killer, as scum will target blues and not him.

I'd also like to point out that Hopeless1der's flip doesn't in any way abolish his flavor theory. Scum flipped "hero", blues have flipped "villain", and townies are all so far (including his own personal input) still "non-characters". The only contradiction that I can see is thrawn's roleclaim, which conveniently aleviates kush of guilt for his play. After pursuing flavor-text based reads the entire game, why did he suddenly drop it only now that a scum has flipped to show that his protector has similar flavor? In fact, he used that exact name in his list of examples.
He states that he trusts Thrawn's claim, even though it's in direct conflict with his great flavor theory (which he states at one point is the basis of all of his reads). Thrawn claims with one of the exact names he's mentioned as likely scummy, and kush believes it. Why? Thrawn is either scum or this breaks his theory. In addition, he doesn't admit that his theory's been broken until after a scum flips. He didn't know that hope would flip with "Road Runner", but he knows he can't keep pursuing the flavor theory when someone has flipped who would implicate his provider of innocence. This definitely makes me think SK over scum.

thrawn is not playing how I expected him to play - I usually see him as a hapa-esque player, with a lot of posts and interaction with other players. He seems different this game. I can't remember having seen any of his scum games (or even if I've participated in any of them), but according to this post from the irc mafia thread, his scum meta is that of a lurker (I feel that despite having 3-4x the filter I do, he hasn't been as active as I expected coming in, and the quality of contributions feels lacking). That quote is straight from his own mouth, without any influence from being in a game at the time. There is also a list of games from the page before that post that you can read to see it for yourself. Yes, this is regarding IRC mafia and not forum mafia, but I think that distinction matters far more for someone like me than it would for someone like thrawn. I believe his difficulty stems from his ability to participate when he knows he's lying. I'm used to him appearing to have no trouble posting frequently and insightfully as town, and I don't feel like that would change much between IRC and forum. I kind of expected him to play like Acro or Prome have been.

In addition, and personally more convincing, I find it highly possible that he fake-roleclaimed. There are a series of steps that need to be broken down. (in post 3)
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:02 GMT
#1070
Post 3: The Fakeclaim

1) The role. I believe 1-shot cop is the easiest and most useful fakeclaim according to the c9++ setup (which I know isn't definitely the setup used, but is the closest thing that anyone in the thread could base their setup speculation on). It allows you to make one check at some point without being held accountable for any future checks. It, along with vigi, doesn't require a full version of itself to be claimed (according to C9++), and a vigi fakeclaim doesn't allow you to manipulate the game. You can't missclaim with it either. If you are scum, you know everyone else is town (or have a way to test for an SK in certain cases - A.K.A. Kush) It also has the potential for finding the SK. More on that in a moment.

2) His breadcrumb. It's well written, that's for sure. The thing is, it's made during the night post, after scum could have selected their NK, and while the post is about kush, it doesn't breadcrumb kush. thrawn could use the same breadcrumb following nights to the same effect. On top of that, why didn't he just outright state that he was the 1-shot cop during the night (we get a free hour to do so)? He was going to claim the next day anyway. The way it's set up, he could refer to that crumb throughout the game, and say that he used his ability on any person in the game on any night.

3) The potential. Once scum know who the SK is, they can either waste another KP on them the next night (assuming they didn't outright kill him), or turn them over to town (either with legitimate arguments, or as one of them is about to be lynched). Both options are bad for the SK. If you're able to communicate to him that you know who he is, then you tell him that you know who he is, and you're basically in it together against town. It puts him in a position of knowing who one scum is, but being unable to do anything about it without losing the game for himself. This gains scum and SK a tentative alliance. The result is that scum don't have to worry about a SK NK on at least one person, the one communicating with him secretly in the thread. The SK gets to keep living, and possibly work his way into a position to win the game. A side effect is that if the SK is going to go under, he can take at least that one mafia with him in the event of a lynch. Conveniently, the green check both alerts the SK that scum know who he is, and also protects both him AND the scum from scrutiny for at least one day, if not more than that. You'll notice that thrawn asks if kush believes him. Kush responds that he believes him. The actions of both players seems strange at this point, do they not?

4) The timing. I've already mentioned how thrawn's breadcrumb came a bit late. What I haven't mentioned yet is how thrawn's claim itself came 18 hours into D2. I believe this is after everyone else commented in the thread, indicating that it's unlikely anyone else was going to roleclaim cop. If either of these things weren't the case, it would be far less suspicious. The fact that he crumbed during the night and claimed halfway through the next day (instead of earlier in the day or sometime during the night post) give me strong feelings that he was being more careful than he should have had to be with his claim. I can tell you that I thought hard over when I should best post this, and my conclusion was apparently the absolute opposite of thrawn's.

All of these things make me feel as though his town read on Kush isn't legitimate. If thrawn flips scum, and I truly believe he will flip scum, then definitely doubt the hell out of kush. Or lynch him first. Whatever.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:03 GMT
#1071
Part 4: The Wrap-Up

If there is a vigi here, claim asap. If there was a kill blocked, scum probably aimed for kush and didn't kill him, thus revealing him as SK. If there isn't a vigi, then bits of my connection conspiracy fall apart a bit, but each player's individual play is still weird as hell.

The ways in which kush and thrawn have acted since I started asking questions further confirms my beliefs. Thrawn is going all wishy-washy over kush, saying he doesn't want a kush lynch, but oh wait, he might after all. Unfortunately, he can't vote for kush or kush will reveal that he's scum. And now kush is picking his flavor theory back up again, even though by this point it's basically useless (moreso than it was before). It's all he can hang on to. They're flopping around, gasping for air, and I think it's time to put them out of their misery.

Everyone else
Town to various degrees. I would be heavily against a prome, acro, or DP lynch. risk and release I am less confident of. I would still need a lot of convincing to vote for either of them over thrawn or kush.

After writing all of this out, I feel pretty confident with what I've said. I think of kush, thrawn, and drazak, we will catch at least two scum/sk. Drazak is the one I'm now feeling the least sure about, if you can believe it.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:04 GMT
#1072
Sorry for the length. I couldn't stop once I got started. I really want to go to bed now, but I think I'll try to stick around until the day post.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:10 GMT
#1075
Sorry, it was vague/hidden in the wall. Jailing Prome because I want him kept alive. Probably would have chosen you, but I feel like scum/sk might have gotten a whiff of blue from me, and didn't want to go with the person I had nothing but town reads on all game. A bit wifom-y, but I feel that both of you contribute similarly well, and I wanted to save one if they're being hit.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:23 GMT
#1079
I'm not the one who thought the flavor was straightforward.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:29 GMT
#1082
On November 07 2012 07:23 Acrofales wrote:
In case that was too cryptic: if the SK is bulletproof and scum shot him, then they did NOT shoot Mat or Zealos.

That means we have a vig. It is theoretically possible, but we'll have to see whether the KP works out tonight.

Anybody feel like claiming vig?

Yeah, this is honestly what I'm hoping for. The problem I see in my mind is that according to C9++ (if we are to keep following it roughly) one V gets a 1-shot vigi, so it would be at least two V's claiming tonight imo. If the single shot vig shot last night, he would have claimed. An unlimited vig wouldn't have such qualms necessarily.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:31 GMT
#1085
I don't even know what I'm writing anymore.

EBWOP: An unlimited vig wouldn't have such inclinations.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 22:44 GMT
#1089
Was the trap for me? If so I'm sad =/
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 23:00 GMT
#1091
Well then...
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 23:04 GMT
#1093
Yeah... Or both...
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 23:04 GMT
#1094
In the event of an SK.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 06 2012 23:17 GMT
#1096
Anyway, I'm exhausted. Even though I'd like to hear what other people think about all of this, I need to get some rest. I'll comment/push my reads later in the day.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 07 2012 13:57 GMT
#1155
I'm up, and I'm going to work my way back through the thread eventually. Want to respond to acro first, so...

On November 07 2012 20:41 Acrofales wrote:
Muso: given the almost certain absense of a vig, does your theory work with a Thrawn/Kush scumteam. If so, where does that leave Drazak?


@Acro: I'm not entirely sure. A lot of the theory involves kush feeling incredibly like an SK to me this game, and him not knowing the exact flavor of the scumteam. The theory also involves the awkward and strange interactions between the two, as if they're working together without working together. It also speaks to me that scum are likely have a roleblocker (according to C9++ as well as the number of roleblocks both nights), and that kush claimed having been roleblocked, as well as the absence of even a single nk. You might ask, "why would kush claim the rb if he knew it was his scum team allies blocking him?" Well he still doesn't know if I actually blocked Prome. They know I'm trying to mess with them, so maybe I said I blocked prome, but actually blocked kush. Who knows? (I blocked Prome. I was not rb'd.) Another person who was incredibly interested in having Prome claim quickly or having me emphasize that I blocked Prome was thrawn. Take from that what you will.

For me the theory is less how they knew who each other was, but as an explanation of their strange behaviour with each other.

@kush: what do you think about thrawn fakeclaiming? You have confirmation that one of your scum names was actually scum. One of the other scum names has been claimed, and used an incredibly easy and questionably delivered claim to make. This doesn't set off any alarms, but actually makes you revise your theory?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 07 2012 17:24 GMT
#1164
I do not think you are scum. No worries there pal.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 07 2012 17:27 GMT
#1166
Yeah, that was the second possibility that popped into my head. I dismissed it.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 07 2012 17:55 GMT
#1172
Fuba's theory of Kush=sk is possible if we assume that thrawn is town and he did get a green check on Kush but mafia framed him that night they would know 1)kush=sk and 2)he took bullet proof, this means that Scum could rb me tonight and, instead of holding their shot shoot off the SK's bullet proof.

So they rb you (which wasn't them, because it was me), shoot off the SK's bullet proof, and what did kush do?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 07 2012 21:32 GMT
#1212
Prome, I saw you basically beg to be saved twice, I believe. I decided to go with it XD
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#1306
I'm back. My vote was up in the air in the beginning, because I was pondering over possibly voting kush. I'll stick with draz for now, since now that I've got confirmation bias out of my system, I can't confirm my theory until one of them flips.

##Vote drazak

@Release: I think it's likely that someone with a kp who was roleblocked would be more inclined to report it, because then there's a roleblocker out there who knows you haven't told the truth.

But on that note, the fact that you appear to have not thought of that makes me think you're town.

Edit: saw I was ninja'd. Wanted to comment anyway.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 07:02 GMT
#1309
I considered it, but I feel that scum wouldn't even consider saying what he did. As scum, I feel it would be my first reaction: "Can I just not claim? No, I have to claim, or someone will know I'm lying." As such, I would never consider it proof of innocence. I feel that he's wrong, and scum would never think to fake being wrong in that way. Does that make sense?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 07:04 GMT
#1311
EBWOP: Clarification - As such, I would never consider *what he said* to be proof of innocence, from his own scum perspecctive.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 23:04 GMT
#1412
Both of which I was feeling before he said anything <.<
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 23:15 GMT
#1419
YES
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 23:34 GMT
#1436
I want to hear more about Release's breadcrumb, then I'll comment on him.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 23:40 GMT
#1441
Guys, who roleblocked kush?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 08 2012 23:56 GMT
#1458
On November 09 2012 08:54 kushm4sta wrote:
Why would scum role block me though? Wouldn't it be beneficial for them for sk to kill someone?

Claiming sk bro?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 00:20 GMT
#1471
Didn't Prome claim VT with Marvin Acme?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 00:21 GMT
#1472
Ah, I remember. You say marvin acme isn't really a character...
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 00:42 GMT
#1483
I doubt it, especially since the KP is locked at 1.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 01:35 GMT
#1491
You admit, or you agree?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 22:09 GMT
#1529
Yup.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 22:42 GMT
#1532
Where are you DP? :<
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 09 2012 23:27 GMT
#1547
lol

Am I off by an hour, or was the daypost due about 27 minutes ago?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 10 2012 21:20 GMT
#1657
Is it possible that risk is town and scum/sk targeted prome?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 10 2012 22:30 GMT
#1661
I've probably missed something along the line during all of our setup discussion, but this is where I stand now:

I'm going to trust thrawn's claim again. I won't say that I don't think he *could* be lying, but the crumb was good, and I can't point at a post of thrawn's that I find scummy. I'll question it again if risk doesn't flip scum.

The only possible scum are: risk and release

The only possible sk are: risk, release, kush

I still think Release is innocent because of that comment that Prome and I discussed earlier. Prome disagrees with me, but I don't see someone with a "guilty conscious" making the post that Release did. I might be persuadable, but I think Release is town.

At that point, the only person left on my scum list is risk, so ##Vote risk.nuke

That would leave kush as the sk, but we'll get to that when the time comes.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 11 2012 03:39 GMT
#1664
It's the discussion starting with this post. I think the chances of scum or sk saying that are far less than town.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 11 2012 04:24 GMT
#1666
Wait, you think I'm scum?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 11 2012 19:45 GMT
#1700
Are your only options for scum DP and risk?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 11 2012 21:46 GMT
#1713
Care to share your reasoning? Because I am what I've claimed to be.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 11 2012 23:56 GMT
#1730
Agreed.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 12 2012 00:30 GMT
#1738
I changed my mind. For some reason I didn't consider risk being sk. Since he was sk, it means kush isn't sk. And since kush isn't sk, I can completely throw out my case on you two. Was admittedly bad play to begin with.

Kush is guaranteed town, since him being scum relies on thrawn lying, which would mean 2 scum.
DP has his claim, and has played incredibly townish all game. If he's scum, he deserves to win XD
Prome can't be scum because there was a kill last night and he was jailed.
I can't be scum because I know my role and I am not scum
Thrawn could theoretically be scum, but my theory was based majorly around his interactions with sk kush. Again, admittedly bad play that I always said I'd never do (unflipped association theories), but almost everything seemed to fit so well, and I got carried away with it. I don't think I could point out a post in his filter that I find to be overtly scummy.
Aaaaand Release. Release is the only one left. Boom!

Theoretical if Release isn't scum
5-1
lynch Release (4-1)
If release isn't scum, scum kills someone (3-1)

After that we lynch thrawn because I'm town. In thrawn's case, we lynch me because he says he's town. Not sure what everyone else might be thinking. Either way, lynching Release feels like the best bet. Does anyone think that thrawn is scummier than Release?

Let me know if I missed anything. I think it's pretty solid.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 12 2012 01:53 GMT
#1750
It's not just your claim, it's how townie you've been all game. I said that...
I find your claim more reliable than either of ours. And I find both your's and mine more reliable than thrawn's. While I'm clearly biased by my own knowledge, I feel that anyone claiming to have jailed prome was unlikely to be lying about it. If the sk decided to kill prome, then any scum rb claiming to have jailed him would be outed instantly as a liar. It's a risk (heh) that as scum I don't think I would take, and I don't think you would either. There's also the fact that it would make more sense to breadcrumb roleblocker rather than jailer. You don't gain anything by lying about which fake role you have, so why not just give yourself the real role?
Thrawn's crumb was good, and that I've never denied. The only reason I feel like I'm still questioning it is because I think it's an easy claim for scum to make. They crumb 1-shot cop, call someone town, then get a free ride to endgame. At this point I don't think he's scummy, but if it comes down to him vs me, I know who it is.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 12 2012 23:03 GMT
#1784
So... lynch Release?
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 12 2012 23:04 GMT
#1787
##Vote Release
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 13 2012 01:30 GMT
#1836
Sorry, been playing LoL with friends, typing when I have the time. And I realized right after I posted my "lynch release" post that I didn't vote. Didn't even refresh before voting.

My thoughts going into the daypost were that either thrawn or release must be scum. For the most part my feelings have remained the same.

I was reasonably ninja'd by DP (my thoughts are similar to his), but here's my breakdown anyway:

My thoughts on everyone left in the game. It's pretty much varying degrees of towniness.

Release. I did have that one post from Release that I felt made him innocent. I don't think a single person agreed with me, and have such abandoned my thoughts as incorrect. Aside from that post, there's nothing that struck me as townie about him. With most of the others, excluding maybe kush, I have townie feelings about them. In addition, Release being jailed N2, as well as him being jailed tonight, are the best explanations I have for the missing kp both nights.

Thrawn. I can't recall having seen a post that made me think thrawn was scum. Prome brings up a good point that I mentioned earlier, however, that thrawn hasn't really been the town leader that I expected him to be coming into the game. That, and the ease with which scum could claim cop (imo) make me think he could be scum. Or he could have just been busy from his birthday/something-else-that-I-forgot weekend.

Kush. I saw kush as confirmed town because if he was scum, then thrawn was scum, which I feel breaks the game somewhat. Ofc, if there were two godfathers in the game then thrawn could be telling the truth and kush would be scum. Based on his play alone I think I'd want to lynch kush over thrawn, but something keeps making me want to vote thrawn over kush. I'll try to figure out what that is in particular.

DP. He's played a townie game. I don't see why a roleblocker would claim jailer because the sk could have killed his rb'd target. One of the last people I would vote for.

Prome. Confirmed town I believe. Wouldn't vote for.

Myself. I'm a one-shot jailkeeper. My D2 lynch candidates were drazak and hopeless1der. I jailed my top townread N2 so that he wouldn't die. If I'm scum, it means that both scum and the sk targeted kush on N2, which I find to be incredibly unlikely. Therefore, town. Also I saw a PM that said so

I've probably missed something in here, as I'm kind of distracted. If you want to know anything specific, lemme know.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 13 2012 23:08 GMT
#1892
I'm out of class. Gonna go through thrawn's filter, but I'm not sure I'll find anything more than the others have. At the very least it should help to convince myself XD
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 02:01 GMT
#1902
I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 03:06 GMT
#1916
On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote:
i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum

Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null.


This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read.

I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent.

Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote?

I see nothing wrong with my post. It explains my reasoning. His cases had little impact on my thoughts of him.

How is my claim the hardest to accept? My claim leaves an indication that something has happened. I said I jailed prome, and prome was roleblocked and didn't die, which I maintain was a likelihood N2. This is supported by the fact that there were 0 deaths. Your claim is impossible to verify at all. You crumbed a role that you could fakeclaim as scum with no possible downside unless you claim the bulletproof sk is town, and which leaves no evidence that anyone did anything. If I was scum roleblocker, why would I claim 1-shot jailer? It doesn't make any sense. Yours is the easiest fakeclaim.

You say there could be any number of reasons for scum me to know what the SK was doing N2? Please name one.

And breadcrumbs are non-indicative of alignment. Anyone can crumb anything. If I was scum planning on fakeclaiming, I'm pretty sure I'd be MORE likely to have a well-written crumb.

Anyway, I trust prome, and I trust DP. If the scum wasn't release, it would have to be thrawn. I'm up for a lynch on either. The order is irrelevant to me.

##Unvote
##Vote thrawn2112


This may be slightly motivated by a need to be right when I called thrawn scum N2.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 03:08 GMT
#1918
On November 14 2012 11:31 kushm4sta wrote:
One thing I don't like about thrawn scum though...why would Elmer Fudd (drazak) and Bugs Bunny (thrawn) be on the same team?!

Perhaps that's why WBG said the game was unbreakable through flavor :O
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 03:19 GMT
#1919
How is it bs? Aside from you and release, everyone is either guaranteed town or I'm reasonably sure that they're town. I think you both have the potential to flip scum, and we have enough days to ensure that both of you are lynched if it comes to that. It may be different for other players, since they don't have the absolute certain knowledge of my alignment that I do, but for me it's pretty much set.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 03:29 GMT
#1921
At this point, I'm really not incredibly worried about mislynches. One of you two is scum. Of that I'm 99% sure. We have at least two days to lynch you both. I'm more than willing to give my vote to two people who I've had townreads on since D2 or so if it simply means switching between the two people I think could be scum.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 04:23 GMT
#1957
Mine doesn't say anything about that, since I'm one-shot.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 14 2012 21:29 GMT
#2002
The fact that thrawn is at behaving like he's as confused as I am is concerning to me. What he said about having two scumreads that are almost interchangeable is kind of the same situation I'm in. Release, on the other hand, seems to be more certain that thrawn is scum. So is kush, but he's said the same thing about both thrawn and release. I think Release might be overacting a bit. So I guess my question is, for prome and DP: Do you feel more similar to thrawn and I, or Release? I think as someone who's part of the equation I can't make this call.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 00:19 GMT
#2030
I was wondering if no one was talking during the hours leading up to the lynch because of tl being down. Too bad :<

I'm leaving his night actions up to DP because planning it in the thread is kinda silly, and I have no control over it anyway.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 06:40 GMT
#2084
As of right now, I still think Release is the best lynch. It's kind of hard to make myself wade through his filter when I can decide based on process of elimination, but I'll be sure to get the case up. If anything, at least it will likely convince me more of his scumminess. I'll probably go through kush's too because while the possibility of there being a second godfather is really small imo, the possibility exists.

@kush: my problem with DP being scum, aside from what would be a really good bus, is that he would have been crumbing jailkeeper since D1. Isn't it risky to claim jailer when you're actually roleblocker and there's an SK in the game? Maybe if you can find a second set of crumbs entirely for roleblocker alone, I'd consider it. Actually, if you found another set entirely then I'd vote for DP immediately. But I doubt it will be there.

I'm going to get some sleep now... I should be up with more than enough time to go through release's filter and get something written up. I probably won't write anything on kush unless something really jumps out at me.
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 18:55 GMT
#2088
Yes, I'm working on the case now. It's a long one XD
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mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 19:29 GMT
#2091
Haha, will do.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 20:11 GMT
#2098
So, for me the game is down to one of the following:

1) An elaborate bus and risky fakeclaim from DP
2) kush happening to be given a second godfather role and thrawn happening to check him with the single cop check in the game
3) Release is scum

TL;DR for Prome <3:
Release is scum. He was saved D1 by Muso's unfortunate gambit as well as Hope's intervention. His thoughts regarding drazak during N2 and D3 don't make much sense. He has been overstating the scumminess of peoples' actions for the entire game to make it look as though he's scumhunting, a fact that was noticed by at least 3 confirmed townies as well as DP (who I consider pretty confirmed town). His fake vig claim is weird as town, and I can see more scummy motivation for it. He showed signs of setting up a mislynch and succeeded.


So here is my case against Release. Since I have trouble deciding what's scummy and what's just bad play, I'll be adding in bits from other townies that I agree with.

From Mattchew:
Release comes in to the thread with this post and edit

On November 01 2012 09:00 Release wrote:
to everyone:

Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason).

I have to say already that kshmasta is looking scummy.

Since i don't see the advantage of a miller claim, i'd like to know why a miller should claim (from both prplhz and hope in particular).
I'd also like to hear from kushmasta why you avoided saying mason.

On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote:
EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it.


He accuses kushmasta of... honestly i dont know... especially after he asks about the discussion being about masons or millers. Kush misread the thread / roles being discussed and thought millers = masons... calling him scum for this is the biggest stretch i have seen in a while. there is no way anyone with any level of reading comprehension would draw these conclusions from kush's posting and reading the thread around it

release is trying to look like he is scum hunting by skewing kush's words from the thread.
Sounds very similar to this:
On November 14 2012 11:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2012 10:21 Promethelax wrote:
So, DP Kush Thrawn and Fuba how do you feel about what Release has been doing? Still going to lynch him obviously but do you read him as townier or scummier for these giant cases he is making?


I didn't like the tone of his cases. It looked like he was just going through filters pointing out anything that could be interpreted as scummy and he wasn't really clear about exactly how scummy he thought either of his subjects were. kush if you remember, it looks like the cases jacob was making at the end of that newbie when you two were scum. They aren't actual cases, just lists of things that could be interpreted as scummy.
Acro also attests to the fact that Release is overstating the scumminess of peoples' actions. And DP picked up on the same exact thing. We now know that 4 confirmed (or as confirmed as can be) townies saw the scumminess in Release's case against kush. When I read Release's posts about me, I felt like most of what I've said could be actual town misinterpretations. Prome did it earlier, and we know he's confirmed town. I don't feel like I play the best townie game of mafia ever XD But the fact that three flipped town players (and DP) believe that he's painting townies in a scummy light to appear to be scumhunting, and the fact that until I disappeared last night both prome and DP seemed to be seeing me as town, makes me think otherwise.

Another interesting tidbit is that the post that allowed Release to back off of his mistaken kush case was posted by none other than Hopeless1der. It was also one of the posts that Acro pointed out as having a scummy mindset.
On November 01 2012 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 10:40 Acrofales wrote:
Hi Mattchew. On the one hand I agree with you, although for different reasons. However, I have seen this kind of finger pointing go terribly wrong too often. It is entirely possible Release is a newbienoob (which I kinda suspect given that I have no clue who he is) and is simply jumping on the first bad play of the game, in what I will happily call the second bad play of the game.

My main problem with Release is this post:
On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote:
On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote:
On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote:
EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it.

I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up.
I think they should probably both claim actually.

@release
Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming?

Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death?

well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim.

Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other."

Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose.

I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious.

This is pathetic and reaks of scum. While I was willing to write off his first post as one derp of accusing another derp, this one just seems malevolent. He is trying to paint a scum reason for making a mistake and dreaming up wild unprovable theories in the process. This is not a town move. It's an easy way for scum to (try to) get a mislynch bandwagon going. Nevertheless, it's a terrible scumplay. Holding off on my vote to see where this goes.


Zealos is being Zealos. I have nothing much to say about him yet.


Acro, I just want to confirm that you think Kush derped (i.e. is probably town) and that Release might have derped but it was very scummy and you'd lean towards him being scum. Is that correct?

Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote:
On November 01 2012 10:30 Release wrote:
On November 01 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose.


and I highly doubt you would actually think this

I was confused about whom we wanted to claim and which each were.
So i checked the OP and the thing Hope posted and asked for clarification.

Kush posted things based on a misunderstanding and i don't understand why he would not check the OP or ask for clarification. I mean, in Hope's post-quote, there was clearly a miller AND a mason. So it appears that Kush is
setting himself up for a defense ( as I have said), and overeager to contribute.


I guess you have never played with me before. Most of the time I don't think before I post and I'm quite capable of derps as town.

About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers?
That does not sound like a realistic scumplan!

I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently.

On November 01 2012 11:59 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 11:26 kushm4sta wrote:
On November 01 2012 10:50 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush you think release is scum or town?

If I had to vote right now I would vote him if that answers your question.


@release
Please clarify this while it's still fresh in your mind.
On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote:
About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers?

Am I correct in describing your suspicion this way?

I would add subtly before convince, but yes. And thought. not think (see below).

However, hope has attested to your derp, and that makes 2. I don't have any glaring suspicions to cast against hope so as of now, I will admit that my theory is probably too far-fetched to be the truth.

Show nested quote +
On November 01 2012 11:48 Acrofales wrote:
On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote:
Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion.

So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly.

Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip.

Why bring up a policy you don't agree with yourself? In fact, why bring up a policy that in a previous game you described as:

On June 25 2012 11:20 Release wrote:
##vote Hopeless1der

I think Mafia is a very intricate game, and to say Lynch those who do not tell the truth is retarded.

<snip>


Can you explain your thoughts behind bringing up this policy which you evidently don't agree with yourself?

1st bold: I don't want a lynch-all-liars.
2nd bold: lynch-all-liars is retarded aka i don't want a lynch-all-liars.

I agree with myself. However, i don't see how a game 4 months ago has much pertinence to me this game: I have played a grand total of 5 games (including this one) and my mind could have changed between those 4 months.
It was also Hopeless1der who posted the case for Release's towniness, which for me, at least, was conducive to me being less suspicious of him. It, along with his case against Muso (which also distracted us from Release), were also hope's greatest contributions, which I think tells us something about Release.

Then, of course, there's the "I'm doing something scummy, but it's not scummy" post:
On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote:
Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion.

So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly.

Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip.
I didn't find this scummy at the time, since I didn't see why scum would say they're doing something scummy while they're doing it. But it, along with the Muso debacle, did effectively distract town from what most people felt was a good scumhunt on Release. I'd probably still see this as a null tell if I wasn't looking at release being scum, but I'd have to admit that it did do exactly what he said it would.

Next Release claims that a 1 for 1 trade would be good for scum, when any town would be happy to set up such a trade. This shows a non-townie mindset.

Next is this series of posts in which he seems to be accusing Prome of being scum, but wants to make it clear that he's not subtly trying to trick us into voting Prome based on his choice of color:
On November 03 2012 06:29 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:03 Promethelax wrote:
On November 03 2012 05:59 Release wrote:
On November 03 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote:
On November 03 2012 05:53 Release wrote:
On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote:
On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote:
##unvote
##vote: Promethelax


No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler +
to replace the vote


accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
I.voted for muso for this reason:
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen.


Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake.
I am anvil vanilla town.
My theory is vts do not have character names.
The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name.

You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics.

1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and
2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need.

Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum.

That leaves:
1. We're both town. This is possible.
2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit.
3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible.

Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town.

So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy.



Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts.

I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine.


As the great Flamewheel said: Wat? I don't care what page you were on, you can still give reasons for voting someone. Now, what are your reasons?

Kush: no one should be claiming until it is truly necessary, there have been enough dumb claims today and we should rely on our ability to play mafia and not our ability to read claim posts.

Ummm... This post that i made before the other post
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 03 2012 05:42 Release wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote:
'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said?

Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me.

Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim.


Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote:
<snip>
See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum.
<snip>.


Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation:
You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information.

The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members.
1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses.
2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc.

I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum.



Missed this, sorry Release.

you are misunderstanding what I am saying (which in general means I should have worded it better).

1) His lynch seems like a coin flip, so it only has about a ~50% chance of netting us scum (that is Muso himself)
you say 50%. We have no idea how many mafia there are but 4 or less is what i feel is accepted.
This means either (not likely imo) you literally mean a coin flip or (more likely imo) you think that he is more scummy than each of the rest of town (except drazak). I don't see why you feel averse to lynching him because 50% is a very strong feeling in such a game as mafia.

2) a secondary point is that it also won't give us any information.
you seem to mention this in context of the Muso thing so: so what? The or scum and this together states that you would rather lynch a townie to get information than a mafia that "gives us [no] information" which still, seems scummy. Yes, the wording and sentence structure around "or scum" is poor but this is a glaring slip.

The if you are townie and flip w/o giving information: It begs of a "regardless of my alignment, don't lynch me (i just realized this next part) because I have not contributed in a way that would help town were I to die" - to me, that is definitely a slip.

Some of this is a bit far-fetched, but those are what i see.
we should lynch someone who has a higher chance of flipping scum (Draz) and who, no matter the flip will provide us with more information. The primary goal is the red flip, the secondary goal is what we can learn from the red/green flip.
On November 03 2012 06:30 Release wrote:
yeah, the red isn't meant to subtly mean scum, it's just a color. Please don't take it as propaganda/etc.
Just my response in a different color.

At this point thrawn picks up on the fact that Release seems to be feeling guilty, and that seems accurate. If he's trying to set up a lynch on Prome, why is he apologizing for making prome seem scummy?

Next I see a series of cases on drazak as well as various now-confirmed townies. There are obvious reasons to lead mislynches as scum, and obvious reasons to bus your allies. One thing to point out is that after hope flips he drops drazak from his list of scumreads until he gives reasons for trying to voteswitch. Release thought drazak WAS scummy, then he did something that most of town found scummy and hopeless was lynched, then Release no longer found drazak scummy unless he couldn't give a reason for his last-minute voteswitch. Also in there, a possible scumslip:
On November 07 2012 00:32 Release wrote:
-snip-
I don't see why we couldn't have a framer.
-snip-
I cut it down because the rest of the post was pretty pointless to include. This is not how I would phrase this sentence as town. You can all decide for yourselves if you think you would.

When Acro calls him on his switch with drazak, Release admits to being wishy-washy. This is something that he's pointed out in my filter a few times, and something that I tend to not call someone else out on because I *am* wishy-washy as town. If he is wishy-washy himself, then why has he pointed it out as a scum trait in me?

Next thing I come to is Acro's claim and Release's fake vig claim. First of all, scum at the point of Release's breadcrumb know that there's at least one more roleblocking role in the game. And they know that they don't have any of the roleblockers, and that it will look strange to town that we have so many blocking roles. So Release breadcrumbs that he's a vigi, gets roleblocked, says it was scum rb because of his breadcrumb, and gets a mislynch on whoever claims roleblocker. Unfortunately for him, no one found the breadcrumb, and we believed Acro over Release.
On November 09 2012 09:27 Release wrote:
"Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people."
Doesn't strike you as an awkward sentence?
Ofc i would feel annoyed. We all would.
Who cares if we got the GF? He's scum. There's no point in mentioning the GF specifically.
This quote strikes me as odd because as town, I did feel more relieved that we'd found the godfather. It meant that kush was unlikely to be scum. Sure, the sk was still around, but this was new information that made our lives somewhat easier. This might have been my confirmation bias on my thrawn + kush theory, so I again leave it up to you to decide if you remember being more relieved when godfather flipped.

Then we get to the last few days, where he is alone and not interacting with a scumteam. His vote for risk makes sense, since to his eyes town was able to ourselves into a mislynch. Then we get to his cases on thrawn and I, which I've basically covered above. We talked ourselves into a mislynch and he went with it. He actually helped that one along by mentioning previously that if we roleblock him, scum could hold their kp to force a mislynch. Remember when he conveniently pointed back to that post after we all voted for him? Yeah.

Release is scum, and we should lynch him tomorrow.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 20:45 GMT
#2103
It makes sense to bring up the vig claim yourself if you think you can cause a mislynch with it. Your supposed scumreads included acro and kush, did they not? You wanted to get roleblocked and then pull out your vig crumb as a reason for the roleblock, which would implicate Acro as well as kush in a scum pair.

And what would be easily misinterpreted? You thought Prome was scum, did you not? Writing your response in red makes sense in that case. I can't say I would find you scummy for adding red to a response to scum. What I do find scummy is that you felt defensive about it before even being called out (which I doubt would have even happened).

Any comment on why my wishy-washiness as well as kush's is scummy but yours isn't?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 20:56 GMT
#2104
Oh, and I won't be here at the time of the daypost. I have plans at that time. I should be here until about 15 minutes before it, though.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 21:04 GMT
#2108
I think the deadline for night actions is in an hour. And I'm still working through the LYLO logic. I'll have more thorough thoughts in a bit.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 22:13 GMT
#2120
Oh god, DP has a really good point... I was going to say that I would agree to a no-lynch, but after what he said I'm not so sure. There are just so many options for what will happen tonight for me to be sure what I'd like to do in every situation... In any case, I think Release is the best lynch unless a roleblock clears him of guilt.

If there is no nk tonight, we'll be at 4-1 still. In that case I think I'd prefer to lynch Release. I do believe he will flip scum. If he doesn't, however, then I will personally know that kush is scum. DP and Prome may be skeptical, but I would know who it was. I guess that decision would come down to whether or not DP and Prome think kush or I is more townie. In this case, we would at least have two chances to lynch, as well as a roleblock for the upcoming night. If we no-lynch, then nothing changes. We just give scum another opportunity to nk. I'm not sure I like that idea. We could go on forever roleblocking randomly among the three of us and scum possibly holding their nks to trick us. Or constantly roleblock Release and have no nk and constantly wonder if he's scum or not. At this point, I feel like we have almost all of the information we're going to get on anyone unless a nk happens.

If there is a nk, then DP is the likely NK target. It would be 3-1, with prome, kush, release, and myself. kush and I would likely agree on a release lynch. If that happened, and we were wrong, then it's down to me, kush, and prome. Scum would nk and win. If we don't lynch, then Prome is the next likely target, and it will come down to release, kush, and myself. Again, kush and I would likely agree on a release lynch. If we're right, we win, and if we're wrong we lose.

I guess at the moment, in the case of us going to mylo, it comes down to Release is scum or we lose.

All of these decisions may vary depending on the DP roleblock and if there's a nk. I can't say for sure what I will want to do until I have more facts.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 15 2012 22:47 GMT
#2124
I agree that Release should be lynched. I absolutely disagree with lynching me because I've done nothing but tell the truth the entire game. In any case, if there's no night kill I'll be glad that at least two of DP, Prome, and kush are still alive the next day to lynch Release. And if one of you is actually scum, then well played, scum. Well played.

Gotta head out to my meeting now. Hope I come back to a bunch of votes for Release instead of myself.
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 16 2012 01:20 GMT
#2133
GG Prome, and thanks kush (also, happy birthday!).

Roleblock confirmed.

Anyone else think the nk was strange?
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 16 2012 05:19 GMT
#2188
##Vote Release
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 17 2012 23:10 GMT
#2233
rofl
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
mkfuba07
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1151 Posts
November 17 2012 23:26 GMT
#2238
Never trust a skinny innkeeper
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2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
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