I will not be modkilled
can people talk in the 23 hour period after night begins? or only in the 1 hour before day begins?
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I will not be modkilled can people talk in the 23 hour period after night begins? or only in the 1 hour before day begins? | ||
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Shouldn't Hope get the position over Muso for the "I will not be modkilled" | ||
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Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason). I have to say already that kshmasta is looking scummy. Since i don't see the advantage of a miller claim, i'd like to know why a miller should claim (from both prplhz and hope in particular). I'd also like to hear from kushmasta why you avoided saying mason. | ||
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On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote: EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @release Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim. Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other." Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious. | ||
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________________________________________________ @Mattchew: Skewing his words how? He was asking for the mason to claim in his posts while calling it the miller. Then he goes and says the town who could talk to each other, but avoid saying mason. This gives him the chance to say "I meant the miller" if the mason claims. | ||
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On November 01 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. and I highly doubt you would actually think this I was confused about whom we wanted to claim and which each were. So i checked the OP and the thing Hope posted and asked for clarification. Kush posted things based on a misunderstanding and i don't understand why he would not check the OP or ask for clarification. I mean, in Hope's post-quote, there was clearly a miller AND a mason. So it appears that Kush is setting himself up for a defense ( as I have said), and overeager to contribute. | ||
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Your words seem the strongest of all yet no vote. | ||
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On November 01 2012 10:53 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:25 Release wrote: I will state now that i think Meta-Analysis (which Hapaluchi loves) is very weak to useless. ________________________________________________ @Mattchew: Skewing his words how? He was asking for the mason to claim in his posts while calling it the miller. Then he goes and says the town who could talk to each other, but avoid saying mason. This gives him the chance to say "I meant the miller" if the mason claims. Meta is far from useless. It's not easy to use, though, and therefore often used wrong. However, it is very powerful when used right. So in that light, please let us know a bit more about yourself. Do you have previous games on this forum? + Show Spoiler + No. Kush was quite obviously confusing Millers with Masons. He said Miller, but described Mason. In his later post he clarified (when thrawn pointed out that he seemed to be confusing the two) and added "Masons should claim" as his own idea... kinda on the same line as mass claiming. Is it a good idea? No. Is it potentially fishing for blues? Yes. Is it inherently scummy? No. In fact, as scum I tend to pay MORE attention to details, so I am inclined to write weird derps like this off as more likely to be made by town. However, this is a meta-call which does not work for everybody I have 4 newbie games under my belt: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=337671 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342960 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066 | ||
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On November 01 2012 10:52 Release wrote: where is your vote? Mattchew felt strongly enough to vote, as did Thrawn (although less convincingly). Your words seem the strongest of all yet no vote. meant to quote I missed the holding off the vote (haha i'm a hypocrite): but now that i read it, what stopped you? | ||
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So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. | ||
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On November 01 2012 11:26 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:50 thrawn2112 wrote: kush you think release is scum or town? If I had to vote right now I would vote him if that answers your question. @release Please clarify this while it's still fresh in your mind. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote: About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? Am I correct in describing your suspicion this way? I would add subtly before convince, but yes. And thought. not think (see below). However, hope has attested to your derp, and that makes 2. I don't have any glaring suspicions to cast against hope so as of now, I will admit that my theory is probably too far-fetched to be the truth. On November 01 2012 11:48 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. Why bring up a policy you don't agree with yourself? In fact, why bring up a policy that in a previous game you described as: Show nested quote + On June 25 2012 11:20 Release wrote: ##vote Hopeless1der I think Mafia is a very intricate game, and to say Lynch those who do not tell the truth is retarded. <snip> Can you explain your thoughts behind bringing up this policy which you evidently don't agree with yourself? 1st bold: I don't want a lynch-all-liars. 2nd bold: lynch-all-liars is retarded aka i don't want a lynch-all-liars. I agree with myself. However, i don't see how a game 4 months ago has much pertinence to me this game: I have played a grand total of 5 games (including this one) and my mind could have changed between those 4 months. | ||
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On November 01 2012 11:26 Mattchew wrote: release what do you think of zealos's posts First post agrees with the general consensus. Has a point in that he can't be blamed for not agreeing. Second post reinforces the miller not mason claim. Clarifies part of the problem. Third post seems to allude to that fact that he thinks I'm town or that my posts are insignificant. If he had posted something more, i would think of it as "there are more important things to do" but he has yet to make a further contribution. I honestly have no idea what he trying to do with this post because his filter is rather meager, so this doesn't seem like fluff. Zealos, please explain in detail what you mean by this post because there seems to be ambiguity surrounding it. _____________________________________________ Personally, i'd like to hear from someone who has not yet posted to get another perspective on this, and the case on me. | ||
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On November 01 2012 12:05 Mattchew wrote: he's not pointing out a contradiction in your opinion he is asking if you are so adamantly against it, why even bring it up? It was left with kind of a dangling end; no real agreement, no disagreement. I prefer to have things be explicit so it has much less chance to be used manipulatively. | ||
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Muso... | ||
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On November 01 2012 13:09 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote: Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted. Muso... WTF are you talking about. You realise that if he was scum trying to mislynch you with a fake mason claim that would be almost as retarded as claiming unaware nosy neighbour right? well honestly i have no idea at all what he is trying to do. Just threw out the only thing pertinent to such a claim right now. | ||
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On November 01 2012 13:17 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 13:14 Release wrote: On November 01 2012 13:09 DarthPunk wrote: On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote: Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted. Muso... WTF are you talking about. You realise that if he was scum trying to mislynch you with a fake mason claim that would be almost as retarded as claiming unaware nosy neighbour right? well honestly i have no idea at all what he is trying to do. Just threw out the only thing pertinent to such a claim right now. The only pertinent thing is how you are being set up by his retarded mason claim?!?!? Such inherent guilt. My god. What? I claimed earlier that kush was trying to get people to claim mason. Magically, a mason claim appears. "Go, Release, Go!" says Muso. "You can go get him." | ||
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Feel free to rag on me though. | ||
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On November 01 2012 12:16 DarthPunk wrote: + Show Spoiler + Sup Guys. Just caught up with the thread. So I have a town read on Kush, Unless he has put a great deal of effort into shifting his meta he is playing his town meta this game. So unless something drastic changes I guess that this is the first time I will not be gunning for you buddy. ^_^ If you are a miller you should claim. But I will be wary of such a claim as there have been times in the past in which an uncontested miller claim day one has sealed the win for scum. So we should exercise our judgement on such claims rather than put blind faith on their townieness. From my first read through Release is looking suspicious. Firstly he is tunnelling townie kush, although he may be unaware of kush's meta he has a scum read over something which is at worst a null tell. Secondly his posting feels off somehow this post in particular is scummy as shit. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. So after acknowledging that this post is a distraction from the suspicions on himself he attempts to create a tangent discussion on policy. And he proposes a lynch all liars policy that he talks about for a good deal and then decides he is against? It was fluffy and served to distract the thread from pursuing him. Claiming that you are not doing that does not cause it to be untrue, rather it speaks as if he was guilty of doing EXACTLY THAT. I did not acknowledge that this post was a distraction. I merely stated that it was not relevant to my being hammered for seemingly scummy actions. However, according to your logic, this (and tacitly implied, everything else not relevant to my being hammered) is a distraction, and therefore the only things that won't be distractions are things that ONLY tunnel me. Is that your train of thought? or are you putting words in my mouth? | ||
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However, if my supposed intentions are blatantly obvious and i literally mentioned what I did, then you are claiming that I claimed scum. Do you agree? + Show Spoiler + What I claim to say is that it the policy talk is impertinent to my being lynched, but remember that i am currently being considered for being lynched. My intentions for bringing up the discussion about policy have already been stated: It has been started It can't be unstarted So therefore we should finish it before it is used manipulatively. | ||
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more to come later. | ||
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On November 02 2012 10:23 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote: I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim. more to come later. You've caught up on reading?? What does that have to do with anything. All of muso's reasoning is in his last post. From this post I'm not sure if you think he's town or mafia. Also this makes no sense: Why would mafia do a 1 for 1 trade with a mason, especially with the possibility of a doctor? Are you trying to start a fight with me? I said I caught up so i don't get "did you even read?"s in response to my post. You wanted me to only read Muso's last post and skip everything else? Spread confusion = mafia trait Mafia might want to do a 1 for 1 trade because as of now, we see that Muso is terrible, and maybe he had been terrible in the mafia QT. Of course this is Hypothetical and you'd have to ask the mafia themselves to get the right answer. | ||
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On November 02 2012 11:28 drazak wrote: Why are you so bent on what mafia is doing Release? that only leads to WIFOM and shows a night mindset. Are you mafia? Why are you thinking so much about night? He asked me. You want to start a fight with me as well? | ||
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##vote: drazak I have my reasons. We still have a majority on Muso. | ||
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This game has been pretty inactive tbh. | ||
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On November 02 2012 11:54 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 11:31 Release wrote: On November 02 2012 11:28 drazak wrote: Why are you so bent on what mafia is doing Release? that only leads to WIFOM and shows a night mindset. Are you mafia? Why are you thinking so much about night? He asked me. You want to start a fight with me as well? Calm down and stop OMGUSING everyone that questions you Kush did ask me a question to which i would have no suitable response. Because i didn't want to leave it as a reason for Kush to incriminate me, i answered. On November 02 2012 11:55 mkfuba07 wrote: Release, how do you feel about Muso's explanation? As i have already said (not meant negatively), I feel that it is inadequate and scummy because it pushes into heavy WIFOM territory. And now that i think about it, he seems to contradict himself: Makes the "gambit" Excuses himself for being a noob and liar (aka little/no idea what should happen) Calls the noob move a gambit (aka idea what should (or he wanted) to happen). And ofc, spread confusion ---> conclusion = scum | ||
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On November 01 2012 08:22 drazak wrote: While I think millers claiming early is good, I don't think they need to claim early D1, it gives mafia someone NOT to lynch as the miller doesn't have a useful role, we could have as many as 2 millers, not sure how many mafia there are (don't think it said in the op) but if it's 2 that means they have 9 possible lynch candidates, if there's 4 that's 7 lynch candidates. Just realized that explanation sucks, but basically what I'm saying is that it gives mafia a TON of information to claim millers so early. Agrees with the miller claim but adds his own twist (with which he doesn't follow up). Fluffs it with role setup information, and concludes his role setup information. Very early in the game so botd, but still not too useful. next post was a response to confused Kush post so not really influential The next post is a gem (just follow along in his filter. Don't feel like quoting everything) He concludes that Muso is useless to town but lacks the same conviction in calling Muso a scum. Yet, he seems to want to lynch muso regardless of alignment, which draws attention away from scum-hunting and onto a muso bandwagon. Restates his lynch muso regardless of alignment, but adds in a clause that qualifies his wish to lynch muso. This part is far better than than the unqualified wish to lynch, but i still think scumhunting should be done over getting rid of useless townie; after all, the truth is that up to 4 mafia are still alive and he is tentative to call muso mafia. Dont care about next post(miller vs mason irl) Next comes 1-2 liner about setup. Next one is pointing out that Muso is a liar, something we have all pretty much assumed to be true at this point (judging by the general support for accrofales over Muso). Therefore, this is fluffy. Next, he complains about my WIFOM, which was in response to a question that asked for WIFOM. This is poor attack against me because I did as Kush asked; Draz is blaming me for doing something in response to such a question. In any case, the question should have been attacked, not I. This shows a tunneling agenda. Next is w/e Next is paradoxical in that he wants me to answer a question asking for WIFOM to reply in a concrete way. He's setting me up to try to show that i am pulling bullshit out my ass, but i answered with WIFOM and i am getting flakked for that. Either way, he's setting himself up to tunnel (at the moment me), and is not considering things rationally. | ||
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You just said "citizen or vanilla townie as it's called here" which leads me to believe that you have played games before (particularly ones in which VTs were citizens). Stop lying. Also, go find someone else to lynch and make a case on him. Shouldn't be too hard with our deluge of information. We're voting you but if we have to unvote you, we'd need someone for which to vote (i'd recommend drazak but that doesn't seem to have any traction). | ||
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On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote: 'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said? Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me. Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim. On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote: <snip> See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum. <snip>. Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation: You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information. The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members. 1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses. 2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc. I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum. | ||
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##vote: Promethelax No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler + to replace the vote accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. | ||
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I will push for Promethelax, but if such a lynch is impossible and a lynch on drazzak is possible by my switch of vote, then i will do so. | ||
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On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Promethelax No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler + to replace the vote accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts. I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine. | ||
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On November 03 2012 05:48 drazak wrote: Also why do all of you say my name with 2 z's, it's really freaking disrespectful and shows you don't read any of the posts. I pay less attention to your posts because they are fluffy. + Show Spoiler + I recognize people more by their icons than names: Acro is the muta You are the marine I am the ghost Kush is the queen etc. I did the same thing to sciberbia(i called him sciberia) in newb XVI. This is extremely trivial and that you take a hostile tone to such a thing is not looking good for you. | ||
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On November 03 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 05:53 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote: On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Promethelax No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler + to replace the vote accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts. I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine. As the great Flamewheel said: Wat? I don't care what page you were on, you can still give reasons for voting someone. Now, what are your reasons? Kush: no one should be claiming until it is truly necessary, there have been enough dumb claims today and we should rely on our ability to play mafia and not our ability to read claim posts. Ummm... This post that i made before the other post + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 05:42 Release wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote: 'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said? Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me. Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote: <snip> See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum. <snip>. Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation: You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information. The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members. 1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses. 2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc. I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum. | ||
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If at 14:59 we have 6 votes on Muso, I will switch. I am a firm believer that nolynch day1 sucks balls for town. | ||
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On November 03 2012 06:03 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 05:59 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 05:58 Promethelax wrote: On November 03 2012 05:53 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote: On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Promethelax No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler + to replace the vote accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts. I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine. As the great Flamewheel said: Wat? I don't care what page you were on, you can still give reasons for voting someone. Now, what are your reasons? Kush: no one should be claiming until it is truly necessary, there have been enough dumb claims today and we should rely on our ability to play mafia and not our ability to read claim posts. Ummm... This post that i made before the other post + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 05:42 Release wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote: 'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said? Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me. Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote: <snip> See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum. <snip>. Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation: You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information. The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members. 1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses. 2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc. I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum. Missed this, sorry Release. you are misunderstanding what I am saying (which in general means I should have worded it better). 1) His lynch seems like a coin flip, so it only has about a ~50% chance of netting us scum (that is Muso himself) you say 50%. We have no idea how many mafia there are but 4 or less is what i feel is accepted. This means either (not likely imo) you literally mean a coin flip or (more likely imo) you think that he is more scummy than each of the rest of town (except drazak). I don't see why you feel averse to lynching him because 50% is a very strong feeling in such a game as mafia. 2) a secondary point is that it also won't give us any information. you seem to mention this in context of the Muso thing so: so what? The or scum and this together states that you would rather lynch a townie to get information than a mafia that "gives us [no] information" which still, seems scummy. Yes, the wording and sentence structure around "or scum" is poor but this is a glaring slip. The if you are townie and flip w/o giving information: It begs of a "regardless of my alignment, don't lynch me (i just realized this next part) because I have not contributed in a way that would help town were I to die" - to me, that is definitely a slip. Some of this is a bit far-fetched, but those are what i see. we should lynch someone who has a higher chance of flipping scum (Draz) and who, no matter the flip will provide us with more information. The primary goal is the red flip, the secondary goal is what we can learn from the red/green flip. | ||
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Just my response in a different color. | ||
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On November 03 2012 06:34 thrawn2112 wrote: anybody wanna lynch release? several of his posts give the impression that he feels guilty quotes | ||
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It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. | ||
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On November 03 2012 06:42 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:41 Release wrote: 7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax. It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. don't use the "if you dont listen to me your a noob" argument, explain what you mean so that we have it on record 7 on muso, 5 on prom (or 6 with zealos). If we get a last minute switcheroo, which rarely happens if ever, we have easy target for day2 / vig. It doesn't affect the game much at all and a tiny bit of insurance. | ||
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On November 03 2012 06:48 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:41 Release wrote: 7 is the magic number so i ask someone who is tentatively voting muso to switch to promethelax. It isn't too hard to understand why. Please don't act braindead. Huh? Why do you want the vote to be easily manipulatable by scum? 8 is a good number. You are pretty much condoning last-minute shenanigans with this bullshit. Two people switch at the last second and claim they were doing what you wanted, but didn't see the other's switch. It's stupid. 8 is fine, 9 is better for consolidation. If two people switch, and neither switches back and prome turns up town, we have 2 confirmed scum. Sounds nice. | ||
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On November 03 2012 06:51 drazak wrote: What. Didn't you say you didn't want a nolynch and you thought it was bad? Maybe it was someone else, but if we divide the vote we could get a no-lynch and then we're screwed. Go read. I did say that. And i only asked for 1 of 8 to switch so we still have a majority. Ofc, if we end up with nolynch, we know whom we should blame and lynch/shoot. | ||
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On November 03 2012 10:32 Mattchew wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. con-tra-dick-shun You expected me to deliberately not vote what appeared to be very scummy behavior? Hell, i could have chosen accro too if i wanted to lynch-all-liars. I chose Muso for the scummy manner in which he lied. | ||
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so i ask: is this a time for the vig to speak up and show his breadcrumb? | ||
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Does that change your case at all? More to come. | ||
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On November 05 2012 04:01 Hopeless1der wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2012 03:59 Acrofales wrote: On November 05 2012 03:56 Release wrote: My final post was on prome. Just saying. Does that change your case at all? More to come. LOL. Lurking much? Thanks for confirming my point about you only showing up when accused of being scum, scum. That was uncanny...Release, scumreads if you please. Despite reading Prom as scum, he's at least talkative. What do you have going on? I had a tentative theory against Kush, Draz, Acro, and Prome last night that i was waiting for more information to support (i was especially waiting for Kush and Prome) but that didn't happen, and the Cop check doesn't really help me too much either but since Kush is not a confirmed townie, i'll post my read later anyways. + Show Spoiler + I just woke up and am eating breakfast, so give me a break | ||
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I was lurking. | ||
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Wherebugsgo specifically said that the game could not be broken based on this so i don't know why he keeps pushing it. Even though the nightkills and Muso seem to strengthen this theory, I wouldn't believe for a second that the theory will work for every player. The way i see it, Kush has been hugging this theory so closely so that at any time in the game, he can safely change his mind about anything (more likely a suspected scum and claim town) without having to provide a legitimate reason for doing so. Drazzak is an excellent example of this: I'm pretty sure i established that Drazzak's filter is pretty much all fluff and there is a paucity of useful information in there if at all during day 1. + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:54 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:36 drazak wrote: Yeah, I'm getting a bit fed up with Kush asking for everyone to claim everything, that smells a little scummy to me. Kind of not sure if it's just kush being stupid and trolling like usual (yes, I know, I'm omgusing, don't care) or if he's actually got a larger scheme here. Kush has admited to me a bunch of times that he doesn't thinks before he posts, so I dunno, but he keeps being stupid I think we can chalk it up to stupidity/trolling, if he stops, it was probably a scheme. I'm not sure what to think about prom, the case against him is ok, but maybe prplhz was distracted and/or confused. Well draz is being wish washy as fuck here. So you felt the need to weigh in on both me and prom, even though you have no idea what to think of either of them? DRAZZAK Anyone I am NOT trolling. I don't see how you would come to that conclusion. I have been focusing on mechanics rather than behavior, though, that is true. I will focus on whatever I need to to find scum honestly. Analyzing behavior and analyzing mechanics are both tools you can and should use. I don't know why anyone would dismiss either. Hypothetically, let's say that all vts have non character names like the ones that have been revealed so far (anvil, kid watching tv). Do you really think the mod would give break up that theme by randomly giving 1 vt a character name? here Kush points out one of drazzak's fluffy posts, and calls him scummy because of the wishy-washiness. Fair enough. Here is the vote for the fluffiness: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 01:03 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 23:17 drazak wrote: I don't see any reason to change my vote, I honestly have no freaking clue why muso did what he did, but there's nothing town about it, if he is town, he's doing a very bad job establishing himself as town. I hope he isn't town though, a D1 mafia kill would definitely ensure our town victory. Six hours till lynch. If we want to lynch someone based on behavior I think it should be drazak. He has contributed nothign he has not given any reads except saying he doesn't know. "A D1 mafia kill would definite ensure our town victory" LOL... no it wouldn't. Also why would town say that? Completely unproductive comment. He's just trying to paint himself as town. Anyway, read drazzak's filter it's real short. ##unvote ##vote drazzak I still want any vt with a character name to claim btw. If no one claims then I will also want to lynch acro. as well as some more blue-hunting and hugging his theory. However + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 06:00 kushm4sta wrote: huh its a great time for him to claim imo. It looks like he's going to be lynched right now, so he should claim before its too late. ##unvote So I need another wagon now. On November 03 2012 06:11 kushm4sta wrote: carrot fits perfectly. He came up with it fast. No one else is a viable lynch but muso. Kush doesn't exonerate Drazzak for anything particularly townie except for his theory. This suggests that Kush established his love of his theory so that (as i mentioned earlier) he could change his mind without having to appear too conspicuous. This also suggests that the aggression against Drazzak was not really agression because the points against Drazzak were his fluffiness and wishy-washyness, neither of which was defended against or given any justification. Essentially, Kush has freed himself from voting almost-certain scum because of his theory. I don't see any townie motivation for voting against someone that seems so scummy. + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 14:05 kushm4sta wrote: Acrofales There's the flavor theory but that is just one piece of the puzzle. What are the odds of two town fake claiming? I think it was a calculated scum risk. Question to people who know mafia possibilities better than me: Is there some way scum could know muso was fake claiming? Even if he didn't know, consider this: Would acro's claim have looked more scummy if Muso turned out to be mason? It seems like the is yes, but there is equal scumminess to action whether muso was mason or not. This is because when the action took place, acro had no way to know if the claim was fake or not. The only tool he had to discern the fake claim was his wits, which he has as mafia or town. So don't let muso not being mason make you think his action is any less scummy. His defense is that it would be retarded for scum to fake claim. Do you see how that logic is circular? It is retarded for scum to do that, therefore doing that makes you look town, therefore it is smart for scum to do that. Also don't forget the flavor theory! Here he gives some justifiable reason for being suspicious of Acro (acro's scumminess doesn't become affected much by Muso's flip and this reveals nothing about Acro) And he butthugs his flavor theory too. On November 03 2012 22:57 kushm4sta wrote: @prome You said your name doesn't fit my flavor theory, so why wouldn't you claim? You are basically calling yourself vt with that statement so the damage from claiming is already done. You might as well just do it @Acro you actually bring up some good points in your defense. 1 Town has more reason to think the claim is fake because they do not know who mafia is. 2 Bugs games are meticulously put together and they would not have some broken mechanic that overrules scumhunting So for those reasons I'm laying off acro. Agreement with Acro's defense. I feel this is reasonable. Not tunneling. However, in bold is the gold: The flavor theory cannot overdo scumhunting, which begs: Why did Kush give himself a free pass on unvoting drazzak for flavor and voting Muso? (actually because theoretically he hadn't realized it yet.) But plenty of people had called the flavor theory retarded before Acro did and he dismissed them all, yet he agrees with Acro. Again, the way I see it, the agression against Acro was never meant to be agression at all. He simply did this hint doubt at Acro's behavior, only to exonerate him later. In fact, at this point, i don't think Kush has actually had any forceful (or strongly self-supported) cases against anyone. he voted for Muso because "there's no one else" Despite this golden post, he still hugs his flavor theory, which i think at this point is completely bullshit and has the scum motivation of giving him an excuse to switch votes without having any legitimate reason. + Show Spoiler + On November 04 2012 02:49 kushm4sta wrote: Prome already said his name does not fit my flavor theory. Prome please claim, since you already admitted to being a vt. If that is a character name I will stfu about flavor theory forever. Also why did you reveal it now and not during d1? ~~ What is the difference between risk town and risk scum? Does anyone know? Same question for mattchew. ~~ 3 people want to lynch me now! Zealos, acro, thrawn. Anyone else? Are there any questions you want me to answer? The cases are quite spread out so it's a little hard to respond to everything. Summary of the case against me: 1 over reliance on flavor theory I have been pretty obsessed with it sorry. 2 blue hunting I just wanted more evidence for my theory. I only ever advocated 1 vt claiming their name. Also I thought mason should claim in the beginning but changed my mind about it. (The reason I actually made the case for mason claiming is I read in Sandroba's filter from a game a long something he said about there being no downside to millers claiming. But I thought he were talking about the role that is actually masons. Then I see someone this game talking about millers claiming and that authoritative opinion is only enforced, so I assume millers claiming is a smart play.) ^ a lot of text about something pretty insignificant. 3 thrawn saying im off my meta Every game I try to improve and play better. I am being less emotional I think it's better play. (and also I've been hurt so many times in the past) 4 my "scumslip" I said "Why is town fake claiming?" 2 people fakeclaimed mason. I doubt both of them are mafia. So I can say with almost a certainty that town is fakeclaiming because at least one of them is town. 1) he doesn't stop obsessing with the flavor theory 2) he uses the flavor theory as a defense for blue-hunting which is entirely unacceptable 3) w/e (i always have thought meta is bullshit anyways) 4) reasonable enough. _________________________________________________________ After this he does have some aggression against Prome and what i was waiting for all night and for most of the day was some sort of the same reconciliation (similar to Acro's and Draz's) but such a reconciliation didn't happen. This is why i have been lurking. _______________________________________________________________ On November 04 2012 23:34 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:34 thrawn2112 wrote: anybody wanna lynch release? several of his posts give the impression that he feels guilty thrawn why did you say this right before lynch, esp when you said muso had the best chance of flipping red? On November 05 2012 04:20 kushm4sta wrote: With all this claim nonsense we forgot about hoe scummy release looks lol. You case convinces me. ##unvote ##vote release We forgot even though thrawn gave us a friendly reminder? Dream on. In conlusion, acrofales, drazzak, kush/ and prome Kush is the godfather and prome, the serial killer. | ||
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On November 05 2012 04:55 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2012 04:47 Release wrote: Passive lurking. I didn't make posts, you knew i was lurking, i'll even state that: I was lurking. Are you trying to say that you were not active lurking? Even though you replied to that post in less than ten minutes when before that you hadn't posted in about 20 hours. That seems highly unlikely. Who do you feel is scummiest now? Still me? If so, why? and if not, why? + Show Spoiler + I woke up at 10am PDT. I started catching up on p26. He made the post at around 10:45 and i finished reading at about 10:55. It's a coincidence. Believe it or don't. idc. + Show Spoiler + I always thought : active lurking = posts without anything useful passive lurking = no posts? w/e, just semantics. I honestly feel like you're more likely the serial killer at this stage because Kush seems to be the ringleader of the scum and you really don't fit in with what I've read on his filter. ________________________________________________ I did give a read through Acro's filter last night and it was not nearly as convincing as Kush's so ##vote: kush until i'm convinced otherwise. | ||
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On November 05 2012 05:30 thrawn2112 wrote: Release, why do you think prom is the sk? Give your specific reasons. The reasons i gave for his day1 lynch is why i firmly don't believe that he is town. However, the (few) interactions b/w Draz and Kush seemed too fluid (as though planned beforehand) so these i absolutely believe are scum. (check that case) The interactions b/w Acro and Kush also seem to be in the same manner, but to a lesser extent and that's why i'm far more hesitant to call Acro scum. (case again) + Show Spoiler + I don't have time right now to go through the kush's filter to check the quotes but If any one of these turned out to be town, I would be least surpised to see that it would be Acro. | ||
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On November 05 2012 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmmm, rereading Release's filter and it is truly terrible. I can't believe I missed this on my first readthrough. Release vs. Kushm4sta: at the time I thought it was Kush being dumb and Release being dumber. However, it WAS a very easy mistake for scum to jump on and a newbie scum (and this would be Release's first scum game) could definitely be expected to try to jump on that. While in my nightpost I said that his "distraction" post read as too ballsy a move for scum, we must not forget that it actually worked. The topic shifted away from Release's aggression towards Kush and onto more easily handled subjects. Partially helped by Muso's claim. Release's behaviour in that claim was very very weird. The first thing he reacted with was Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote: Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted. Muso... This is strange play, regardless of alignment, and I am unsure what to make of it. One way this makes sense is if he was WAITING for a trap to be laid, and he caught it out. Town doesn't wait for traps. Scum does. However, in the whole ordeal, this is what really caught my eye: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote: I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim. more to come later. This slipped by me the first time. A 1 for 1 trade is a TERRIBLE deal for scum. Both scum and town players know that. However, if you KNOW Muso and Acro are both town, then you suddenly have to come up with a reason to lynch Muso. This reason is extremely forced. Most everybody else was just really confused about why Muso would claim mason as scum... which is the correct reaction. Kush actually called him out on this post at the time and his response was a classic OMGUS with some more idiotic logic where he tries to make a 1-1 trade make sense with complete lunacy: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 11:26 Release wrote: On November 02 2012 10:23 kushm4sta wrote: On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote: I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim. more to come later. You've caught up on reading?? What does that have to do with anything. All of muso's reasoning is in his last post. From this post I'm not sure if you think he's town or mafia. Also this makes no sense: Why would mafia do a 1 for 1 trade with a mason, especially with the possibility of a doctor? Are you trying to start a fight with me? I said I caught up so i don't get "did you even read?"s in response to my post. You wanted me to only read Muso's last post and skip everything else? Spread confusion = mafia trait Mafia might want to do a 1 for 1 trade because as of now, we see that Muso is terrible, and maybe he had been terrible in the mafia QT. Of course this is Hypothetical and you'd have to ask the mafia themselves to get the right answer. Then the vote switching: he wants to vote for Promethelax, but if we can get a majority on Drazak, he will go along with the deal. Ends up voting Muso because: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:12 Release wrote: Vote count? If at 14:59 we have 6 votes on Muso, I will switch. I am a firm believer that nolynch day1 sucks balls for town. In other words: doesn't give a shit about where his vote ends up as long as it secures a lynch (on a townie like Muso, who despite what Promethelax says was always going to be lynched, because it was way too late for a voteswitch anywhere else with half the town afk at the deadline). But the REAL nail in the coffin is: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 10:50 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 10:32 Mattchew wrote: On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. On November 02 2012 11:27 Release wrote: ##Vote: Muso con-tra-dick-shun You expected me to deliberately not vote what appeared to be very scummy behavior? Hell, i could have chosen accro too if i wanted to lynch-all-liars. I chose Muso for the scummy manner in which he lied. Wait... WHAT? You voted for Muso to ensure the lynch would happen. You ACTUALLY preferred both Promethelax and Drazak (or at least said you did)... however NOW his behaviour was suddenly very scummy. Add to that, that he has put 0 effort into this game except when under fire and we have ourselves a scum. I am not sure what this says about Promethelax. Still thinking things over. However, Release has surpassed Promethelax as my prime scum read. ##unvote ##vote Release PS. Yes, I said I was reading DarthPunk: that was completely inconclusive and I don't know what to make of him. My post realllly didn't cause the move. It was Muso's claim. If anything, the post attracted some attention for being a distraction itself (which, ofc, i claimed that it was). About the trap: I'm the one who said, "oh, Kush is trying to trick a mason into claiming." Then i said "w/e. I concede that it was an honest mistake." Then this. At the time, i thought that this was a (lousy) attempt to get me to go back to my petty complaint against Kush. I was working under the assumption that he was not a smurf, that he was a complete newb, and that the scum also saw him as a complete newb. With those, i believed that the scum believed he would be more useful as a sacrificial lamb than as someone who might be a liability. As you can see, I don't tend to have the typical reaction, so pardon me if i don't want to add fluff to my filter by saying "what the.." I actually wanted to have some thoughts. + Show Spoiler + Why should there be a correct reaction? People react to things differently. I don't see a townie motivation for saying that there should be (one) correct reaction. The way i saw Kush's post is that he was criticizing my claim that i read. Yes it is fluff, but it's 6 words of fluff. I didn't think it deserved an entire line worth of fluff in return. This reaction from Kush was extremely unreasonable from a make-progress perspective and trying to elicit emotion. As you saw, there was some emotion. The idiotic logic is largely irrelevant. The truth is that i was mocking his attempt to make me look like scum by answering a question that was (largely) directed at scum. I answer with anything even slightly revealing and he calls me scum for knowing what the scum are doing. I thought both Prome and Draz were scum. Simple. I didn't end up voting Muso. I voted prome because we had 8 on muso. I even tried to effect more votes on prome too because i was more convinced of a prome scum. No, i didn't vote for the Muso lynch to ensure it would happen. My vote for muso was long before the deadline. That, and that people can think for themselves: why are you trying to paint me as the bandwagon leader and strong influence in garnering votes for Muso? (when i clearly didn't) As i have said, i had a case against you, kush, draz, and prome building up. I was waiting for a prome-kush interraction bs but it never happened. __________________________________________________________ After writing this, i realize that post from Kush regarding my catching up on reading very manipulative, which reinforces my belief that he is scum. | ||
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Obviously, my conspiracy theory has been proven incorrect, especially the part about Kush, which brings to this: At the time i said Acro was my most tentative not-townie, but as of now, I'm taking drazak of that sheet. Kush, stop fucking trolling around. It makes it legitimately hard for me (and others) to determine whether you are scum. This is a scum trait, as townies are trying to establish their innocence. All of this flavor theory and trolling around bullshit has been your excuse for otherwise deplorable play all game. I don't believe for a second that you actually believed in your theory or that you unvoted because of your theory. The green check has allowed you to coast through this game scotch free and I say this is the time it stops.I will consider any flavor comment or other trolling comment from you from now on to be a wish to be dead. Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people. I think the whole Drazak pulling a last minute vote switch is a null read. Anything more is way too far into wifom (for me at least) to read into. Personally, if I had been there, I too would probably have pulled a vote-switch to dare/bait someone to switch but afaik, I am the only person who does such a thing as that, so no townie points to drazak for that. On November 06 2012 13:25 Promethelax wrote: <snip> SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine. <snip> fawking hell. More of this damage limitation stuff. I find it scum-motivated. We kill (whether by lynching or vigging) to kill scum. Not for information, not for removing a townie that isn't particularly conducive to scum-hunting. Already made a case against you for this on day 1 and i don't feel like repeating myself. + Show Spoiler + (yes, i know you think he is almost certain scum, i did read that before you storm in here. My point is that these clauses you use to say that we kill him regardless of alignment are scummy as fawk.) Something about Acrofales on the way.... | ||
Release
United States4397 Posts
I'll get the thing up tomorrow closer to the resolution period (7am PDT, not that much closer). Hold me accountable to these figures to prove that i have done it already: (from MS word) 6843 words 32068 characters (w/o spaces) 38628 characters (w/ spaces) | ||
Release
United States4397 Posts
Kush is scummy for being a troll all game and pulling bullshit like the flavor theory. aka never trying to establish his towniness. He completely took the green check and tried to claim town because of it. The last minute vote switches didn't actually change anything. What difference does it make that he switched? If we had a no lynch, then we'd have to look at kush and draz (and also whoever chose to unvote after them as well). I don't see why we couldn't have a framer. since i won't be here until after the deadline: On November 02 2012 21:29 Acrofales wrote: Muso One thing I think should be clear from this, and that is that this play was NOT a noobscum play. Well, either that, or his scumbuddy just completely took over in the second half of D1 and told him what to say and how to say it, which I don't think happened. That leaves Muso as an experienced town player, OR an experienced scum player. In either case the gambit is somewhat explainable and I don't have enough information about the rest of his playstyle to decide which, so I will just lay them both out here: The case for Muso Claims noob mason, knowing that a counterclaim is possible. If there is no counterclaim he gets his free ride on town thinking he's a power role. He also gets to play as if he has talked things over for his partner and is "mouth" for his partner. This can be a very powerful ploy if used well and could keep town running in circles all game. Unfortunately for him, he was counterclaimed. Phase 2 of the plan is needed: claim there is no reason for scum to claim mason (which there clearly is, see above) and that he is actually a VT claiming to "protect" the town power roles. An experienced/smart player could have seen this contingency in advance and thought of this backup. The case for Muso Has been made by Muso himself. The scenario where Muso is mafia is a high risk for not all that high a reward. It puts him in the spotlight and has a large chance of backfiring. It is a stupid play. Muso is not playing like he's stupid. At least, not since the first 24 hours of D1. The reason for claiming as town is not stupid. It's just a bit naive, but a good idea at the core. Some other stuff: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 13:30 Muso wrote: Reasoning for my claim: <snip> 2. The wealth of information and reads that are available from this train is enormous. I doubt anybody will disagree with the idea that we've gained a lot more information from today than we would have had we led a lynch on somebody based upon the minor scum hunting that occurred in the first half of today. Not to say that that stuff isn't valuable, just that this provides more definitive answers. Even if nobody is satisfied with my explanations and this does go through to a lynch, this point will remain true. The true Mason reveal was regrettable and once again I do take the blame for that. I don't like this part of the post. If the aim was for the mason claim to go by quietly in the first place, it would NOT generate discussion and thus this could NOT have been the reason for claiming initially, as this post claims. He indicates that the "masons" (in this case my calling his bullshit) played badly by outing his claim, but if the claim had not been countered than this "gambit" would not have generated any discussion at all. This is POST-hoc reasoning about why the claim was good, which sets my spider senses of: he is fabricating the reasons for claiming afterwards, rather than thinking back to when he claimed and what his reasons for claiming were THEN. Secondly, he refers to this "wealth of information", but he never makes a case on anybody (except for rehashing my case on prplhz in more words) nor really says anything about his reads based on this wealth of information. It is quite a classical scum tell to make this kind of assertion, where you refer to past actions as if they have greatly benefited town, without actually benefiting town. In this case, however, it may have been complicated by my coming clean too: if he was planning on using that information to make a case, it got kinda blown away by my outing my fakeclaim too, and he DID flesh out my case on prplhz. So, is Muso scum? I am not sure at this point. I am quite a bit surer of prplhz and I will do his case next. One word: Equivocal. Do note that this is not a formal case (with some sort of "case on" label) but this sure as hell feels like a case from the part under the quote. First sentence is affirmative but retracts it with a "either that" and then retracts the either that, which makes me think he has no real idea of what he wants to prove, but is posting to look helpful. muso is basically a summary of what Muso has done and some theoreticals that may have occurred in Muso's head. How much of this can be proved? Zilch. There is too much doubt of his claim at the time for any of this to be largely relevant. Muso seemed scummy because of the claim; his reasons didn't change that: he always seemed scummy. [insert green muso here] I can live with this, and this ofc, as the green has it, implies that Muso is not scum. Some good reasoning for why Muso is bullshitting us, and some implications of scum again. More reasoning for Muso is bullshitting us. And a retraction. (switched from Muso bad to muso good again) In conclusion: nothing really. (OH, and this is a case. I didn't catch that the first time around. A case about "not sure" to be exact) All this switching back-and-forth is such a scummy move. There is a clear lack of organization within this post and lack of some form of a main idea, which i find is a good way to confuse people/ or at the least, waste time. __________________________________________________________ I don't think we can get much from Prplhz since he did replace out. Someone mentioned that scum who can't stand pressure tend to replace out? But i don't think it's too conclusive _____________________________________________________________ On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote: I.voted for muso for this reason: time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen. Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake. I am anvil vanilla town. My theory is vts do not have character names. The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name. You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. I don't like this dichotomy bullshit. "any case with acro scum is retarded or impossible." For all we know, you could be pulling a huge bluff. And if we were to follow with your reasoning, we would never catch both scum. GG to us? I find discounting such possibilities as these is scummy and an attempt to lead to future incomplete analyses. __________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2012 03:47 Acrofales wrote: Hmmmm, rereading Release's filter and it is truly terrible. I can't believe I missed this on my first readthrough. Release vs. Kushm4sta: at the time I thought it was Kush being dumb and Release being dumber. However, it WAS a very easy mistake for scum to jump on and a newbie scum (and this would be Release's first scum game) could definitely be expected to try to jump on that. While in my nightpost I said that his "distraction" post read as too ballsy a move for scum, we must not forget that it actually worked. The topic shifted away from Release's aggression towards Kush and onto more easily handled subjects. Partially helped by Muso's claim. Release's behaviour in that claim was very very weird. The first thing he reacted with was Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote: Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted. Muso... This is strange play, regardless of alignment, and I am unsure what to make of it. One way this makes sense is if he was WAITING for a trap to be laid, and he caught it out. Town doesn't wait for traps. Scum does. However, in the whole ordeal, this is what really caught my eye: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote: I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim. more to come later. This slipped by me the first time. A 1 for 1 trade is a TERRIBLE deal for scum. Both scum and town players know that. However, if you KNOW Muso and Acro are both town, then you suddenly have to come up with a reason to lynch Muso. This reason is extremely forced. Most everybody else was just really confused about why Muso would claim mason as scum... which is the correct reaction. Kush actually called him out on this post at the time and his response was a classic OMGUS with some more idiotic logic where he tries to make a 1-1 trade make sense with complete lunacy: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 11:26 Release wrote: On November 02 2012 10:23 kushm4sta wrote: On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote: I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim. more to come later. You've caught up on reading?? What does that have to do with anything. All of muso's reasoning is in his last post. From this post I'm not sure if you think he's town or mafia. Also this makes no sense: Why would mafia do a 1 for 1 trade with a mason, especially with the possibility of a doctor? Are you trying to start a fight with me? I said I caught up so i don't get "did you even read?"s in response to my post. You wanted me to only read Muso's last post and skip everything else? Spread confusion = mafia trait Mafia might want to do a 1 for 1 trade because as of now, we see that Muso is terrible, and maybe he had been terrible in the mafia QT. Of course this is Hypothetical and you'd have to ask the mafia themselves to get the right answer. Then the vote switching: he wants to vote for Promethelax, but if we can get a majority on Drazak, he will go along with the deal. Ends up voting Muso because: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:12 Release wrote: Vote count? If at 14:59 we have 6 votes on Muso, I will switch. I am a firm believer that nolynch day1 sucks balls for town. In other words: doesn't give a shit about where his vote ends up as long as it secures a lynch (on a townie like Muso, who despite what Promethelax says was always going to be lynched, because it was way too late for a voteswitch anywhere else with half the town afk at the deadline). But the REAL nail in the coffin is: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 10:50 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 10:32 Mattchew wrote: On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. On November 02 2012 11:27 Release wrote: ##Vote: Muso con-tra-dick-shun You expected me to deliberately not vote what appeared to be very scummy behavior? Hell, i could have chosen accro too if i wanted to lynch-all-liars. I chose Muso for the scummy manner in which he lied. Wait... WHAT? You voted for Muso to ensure the lynch would happen. You ACTUALLY preferred both Promethelax and Drazak (or at least said you did)... however NOW his behaviour was suddenly very scummy. Add to that, that he has put 0 effort into this game except when under fire and we have ourselves a scum. I am not sure what this says about Promethelax. Still thinking things over. However, Release has surpassed Promethelax as my prime scum read. ##unvote ##vote Release PS. Yes, I said I was reading DarthPunk: that was completely inconclusive and I don't know what to make of him. None of that equivocalness that we saw in the case against Muso. Release is scum, that's all he is. A real case. Unlike that against Muso. (repeated for emphasis) _____________________________________________________________ + Show Spoiler + On November 05 2012 23:54 Acrofales wrote: Not much to go on for Hopeless1der. I will thus make the case both ways, as I did for Muso. On Muso I felt the town case was stronger (as I said at the time). This time I am leaning towards scum: The case for Hopeless1der The scum mindset Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote: <snip> On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote: On November 01 2012 10:30 Release wrote: On November 01 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote: On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. and I highly doubt you would actually think this I was confused about whom we wanted to claim and which each were. So i checked the OP and the thing Hope posted and asked for clarification. Kush posted things based on a misunderstanding and i don't understand why he would not check the OP or ask for clarification. I mean, in Hope's post-quote, there was clearly a miller AND a mason. So it appears that Kush is setting himself up for a defense ( as I have said), and overeager to contribute. I guess you have never played with me before. Most of the time I don't think before I post and I'm quite capable of derps as town. About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? That does not sound like a realistic scumplan! I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently. Why grudgingly? Why would a townie grudgingly admit to knowing something about a fellow townie that exculpates him. Would this not be a good thing? However, from a scum viewpoint, it makes sense: he does not want to admit that Kush derps pretty consistently, but feels compelled by the general direction of the game, and the need to make a good impression at the start of it to grudgingly admit to this information. Regarding Muso: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 03:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Okay, ignoring the possibility of two mason pairs: I could actually quote every single one of Muso's posts to help make my point... - He "lied" about his game history + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 13:25 Muso wrote: Oh sorry guys I didn't know there was a difference between Mason and Miller. I know I said I'd played hundreds of mafia games before but I actually lied just to get in to the game. This is my first one, but I watched a few youtube videos so I thin I get it. Sorry if I'm bad :S - He "lied" about reading the game setup + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 13:25 Muso wrote: Oh sorry guys I didn't know there was a difference between Mason and Miller. I know I said I'd played hundreds of mafia games before but I actually lied just to get in to the game. This is my first one, but I watched a few youtube videos so I thin I get it. Sorry if I'm bad :S On November 01 2012 13:41 Muso wrote: I am a mason, I didn't know there was a miller too Are the lies because he's new and quite frankly, stupid? Or because his fake-claim was TERRIBLE and he's banking on the pity card to save him somehow? ##Vote: Muso Acro has provided an encrypted 'claim post' and I don't see the benefit to a 1-1 trade if Acro was scum. This situation makes way more sense if Acro is telling the truth. Technically, 2 mason pairs is possible, but quite frankly I think we're going to be lynching Muso regardless now, even if a "partner" claims. His filter is just too wrong for me to be willing to let him live. Here is what I would suggest: Muso, if you are in fact a mason, write a last will for your partner to use to confirm themselves. Muso's Partner - Unless you think you can save him, do not claim until after the 1hr resolution period starts at the end of the night phase. There is no good reason to out yourself before that time (unless you can save him). Could someone comment on that suggestion, and perhaps if they would even believe someone claiming to be Muso's mason-partner? I really don't think revealing the other halves is a good idea right now. At this point all Muso had done wrong, as far as anybody knew was lie about his experience in the game. If a mason claimed to be his partner, then his claim would be more believable than mine. However, hopeless wants to go ahead and lynch him REGARDLESS of any further developments. Now, hopeless may be a townie making an error of judgement and believing my claim unconditionally. However, at this point I see no real reason to say we should lynch Muso regardless unless you're scum and want to push strongly for that townie lynch. At this point, my claim was by far the more believable one (as evidenced by everybody voting Muso), so he picked Muso to bandwagon on, rather than me. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote: <snip> On November 03 2012 00:52 kushm4sta wrote: On November 03 2012 00:31 thrawn2112 wrote: kush i cant believe you're trying to make d1 cases based on the flavor claimed by two people... just absurd It's not just based on 2 people claims. It's based on the lack of claim from ALL the vts, AND the claims of two people. Acro seems really upset by my theory. drazzak, acro, and thrawn have all shat on my theory now. Why don't you guys actually EXPLAIN why it's such a bad idea instead of just SAYING it's bad. Do you really believe that all VTs have non character role names except for one named Jessica Rabbit. I do not believe that is likely. He only ever claimed NOT Mason. Granted, green text, but that's inconclusive. However, the reason I think your theory is bad is that I think scum have fakeclaims. My question never got answered and I think it's clear that Hiro was replying to the posts I quoted. Suspicious minds would say that you are paying way too close attention to the wording and that you are, in fact, bluehunting. I thought this was worth mentioning, because the tone rubbed me the wrong way at the time. I am still not quite sure why though. If I had to say, it is because Hopeless seems to be puzzling rather hard over whether my claim means I'm claiming VT or not. Something townies shouldn't be worried about (except that Kush got everybody riled up about it). The OMGUS Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 01:57 Hopeless1der wrote: On November 03 2012 01:34 Muso wrote: It's 3am here and I doubt I'll be awake for the end of day. It doesn't look like Promethelax is coming, and unfortunately lynching him is the only viable option here. Some of you believe otherwise, and I can't stop you. I urge you to trust Acro though (at least for today). He makes sense. If the lynch on me does go through, I implicitly urge you to revisit these last 6 hrs and look at players who were opposed to shifting attention off of me. Hopeless1der is one such player. If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der. In fact this kind of resistance just strengthens the case against Promethelax. On November 03 2012 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote:Promethelax hasn't checked in yet, but even if it was still prplhz in the game I'd rather lynch Muso. I find his noob act highly incriminating. He knew what he was doing when he fakeclaimed and tried to weasel his way out by playing stupid at first. When that didn't work, he tries to pass it off as a gambit to lure scum NK fire. He keeps putting up more smoke and mirrors every time his last plan didn't work. I'm not comfortable leaving that kind of player around. I'm leaving my vote as it is. I sincerely hope I get to revisit this post on Day 2, and if I don't please somebody else do it for me. Hopeless1der cannot be trusted. ##vote Promethelax This post just strengthens my resolve to lynch you Muso. "If in the future Promethelax rolls town, I highly suggest interrogating Hopeless1der." In this scenario, I'm scum for NOT wanting to lynch a townie. Please clarify what you mean if you're still around. Now I think that Muso did not word himself properly here, but his main point was that hopeless1der was unwilling to even consider the possibility that Muso was town. Hopeless skipped right over that part and made a jump of bad logic: Muso knows he'll flip town and is talking about AFTER his death, when everybody else will know he flipped town too. He thinks Prom is scum and Hopeless is trying to keep the lynch focused on Muso to protect his scumbuddy. However, regardless of what Prom flips, he urges us to look into Hopeless. The mere fact that Hopeless is unwilling to consider a town Muso is what he is finding scummy. This is indeed scummy behaviour. Hopeless' way of dealing with this is to discredit it and OMGUS someone who is already about to die anyway. He shows absolutely NO willingness to even consider the possibility that Muso is town. That may be because he already knows Muso is town and he has absolutely no reason to reconsider his thoughts given the rather large amounts of new information. The lurk After 18 hours of inactivity (all through the night, I might add, which is when scum is busy deciding whom to shoot in their own little QT) we get: Show nested quote + On November 05 2012 01:33 Hopeless1der wrote: My activity is bad and I should feel bad. Reading Prom, Acro and risk.nuke's filters first, as they're being angry with one another. This is an utterly useless post, which just emphasizes his lurkiness. I don't see this as "too bold to be scum". People had noticed his absense and were commenting on it. He needed to say something about it. This is all we get. Since then his activity has been limited to a rather bad meta-case against Promethelax, and a throwaway statement that he wants to lynch Drazak. If anything they feel like testers: if somebody bites and starts ramping up a case against Release or Drazak, he is ready to jump on it. However, he is completely noncommittal and happy to do no scumhunting of his own. This also ties into his earlier behaviour (see below): he showed commitment and activity in the game, but once people started reading him as town (me in my night post, for instance), he dropped off the map. Also, lets not forget Mattchew[/green's opinion. Mattchew is actually a pretty good scumhunter, despite him claiming otherwise, and it is always a good idea to listen to what he says (although moreso when he's scum ) Show nested quote + I think hopeless has a pretty decent chance of flipping scum. His posts are long but usually contain a lot of summary with very little opinion on a lot of things, and barely any thought process sharing The case for Hopeless1der Keeping discussion from derailing Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 01:05 Hopeless1der wrote: On November 03 2012 00:15 kushm4sta wrote: I don't want to lynch either muso or prpl. Prpl was mislynched as town in his last several games. He looks very scummy as town. So keep that in mind. Your case on him is very bas. The only scummy thing is giving a bunch of town reads which isn't that scummy. So what if he thought there was 2 mason pairs. Not everyone knows the probability of that. Also I thought the same thing. Muso, I think it would be very hard for scum to come up with that vt role name. Review the spoiler. Information is deliberately missing. I don't know how "hard" it would be for scum to come up with a VT name. <snip> Why would scum be afraid of kush running rampant with his crazy theory. Fake claming seems particularly easy.. and all that is needed to placate Kush is a silly VT claim like Paint Bucket or Boulder if push really comes to shove and town starts mass claiming. And that's assuming scum isn't given a list of safeclaims in the first place (a fairly common thing for normal games). However, as town, this whole discussion was a giant distraction from what we should have been doing: scumhunting. Hopeless seems to be trying to keep the town on track. Keeping promises Too often scum make a promise to be active and then forget about it. It's one of the things I like to look for when reading filters. Hopeless makes a promise and delivers on it. This put him on my town list initially, as it shows a certain consistency. Not a big tell, though, especially given his later behaviour. See above. + Show Spoiler [Hopeless1der's promise] + On November 01 2012 12:19 Hopeless1der wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 12:09 Release wrote: On November 01 2012 11:26 Mattchew wrote: release what do you think of zealos's posts First post agrees with the general consensus. Has a point in that he can't be blamed for not agreeing. Second post reinforces the miller not mason claim. Clarifies part of the problem. Third post seems to allude to that fact that he thinks I'm town or that my posts are insignificant. If he had posted something more, i would think of it as "there are more important things to do" but he has yet to make a further contribution. I honestly have no idea what he trying to do with this post because his filter is rather meager, so this doesn't seem like fluff. Zealos, please explain in detail what you mean by this post because there seems to be ambiguity surrounding it. _____________________________________________ Personally, i'd like to hear from someone who has not yet posted to get another perspective on this, and the case on me. Well, I haven't properly commented on you yet Release. Based on what I've seen, really scummy push against kush. However, I'm going to read those newbie games you posted seeing as I was in two of them and then come back to this. We'll see how some meta analysis holds up. Also, I doubt I get that done tonight since I need to be up really early for work; Going to bed in a bit so I'll post my findings in an approximate 15 hours from now. 15 hours later: On November 02 2012 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote: Release's first game ever on TL, opening post[green]Town: + Show Spoiler + On May 22 2012 09:08 Release wrote: Show nested quote + On May 22 2012 08:44 Mordanis wrote: So my last game began with a discussion of whether to vote or not that wasn't very productive. We got lucky and scored a good D1 lynch, but it felt very, well, luck based. So I'll start this out by saying that if we don't lynch today, we'll probably be in a really shitty situation. In short, I am for a vote today. Also, it's good to be working together with Golden again! For Liquidia! Is this day cycle going to be an extra couple of hours? I only ask because it was in my first game and I'd like to make sure what the situation is. Thanks You say that you are for a vote, but you state that your other vote was luck based. Considering you said "very luck based", doesn't that mean to say that we are not going to experience the same luck? If we don't experience the same luck, we will very much end up lynching a townie, which makes your "for a vote" seem like you want to lynch a townie. Also, why are you talking about the last game? You should be more concerned with this game and find out ways for pointing out scum rather than ways not to. This seems more like filler. The useful part of your post can be summarized by: We should have a lynch today. A no-lynch would be detrimental. ##FOS: Mordanis Fairly similar to his attack on kush this game. 2nd game Town, he spends most of the game tunneling grush. Way more 1-liners, inconclusive to the current situation 3rd game Vig, he gets in my face pretty early, but generally tried to keep talking. Also cited activity issues due to school? 4th game Town, + Show Spoiler + On July 05 2012 08:58 Release wrote: I think YourHarry is Grush's new alias. Show nested quote + On July 05 2012 06:39 Lazermonkey wrote: YOYO GUYS. I AM Vanilla Townie On a more serious note, we want this ship rollin' as fast as possible. Discussing policy is not scumhunting but it does at least help us get the discussion going. First off, something we want to avoid as town is Vanillas claiming blue roles. In both my last game and Newbie Mini Mafia XVIII there were Vanillas who claimed blue roles(DTs). Both times town ended in an bad spot (although not as bad as it could've been due to luck). But this should still be avoided at all costs as it can cause massive damage to town. Why? Well let's say a vanilla townie claims DT, and then the real DT claims because the vanilla is lying. As it doesn't make sense for vanillas to claim blue roles, we must assume that one of theese players is scum and the other one is the real DT.Two following scenarios can occur here 1). The townie gets lynched. which means that the other person is probebly the real DT, this must however not be true. 2). The DT gets lynched, which means that the vanilla townie will 100% get lynched the next day. While 2 is far worse than 1 they are still both very bad for town. There really isn't a situation you want to fakeclaim as a townie. If you don't agree with this please let me know. If noone disagrees I will assume that no townie is ever fake claiming a blue role. Obviously there are situations where you might want to claim as blue. I will also copy a part of my first post from my last game(where I was DT) since I am lazy. Regarding lynches: I really really dislike nolynching for three reasons. 1. because the information that we are able to get out of it is very limited. Yes, we avoid a potential misslynch but on the other hand scum will score a more or less a free-kill during night. Essentially, we are back on D1 but this time we are in a 6-2 instead of a 7-2. 2. If we agree to nolynch then what is there to discuss? It's like asking for people to lurk even more. 3. With no vigilante in the game the only way we can win is to lynch scum. Kinda obvious but still. We require 5+ votes in order to get a lynch done. With that in mind I hope that people are willing to vote for someone who isn't their top 1 scum. Obviously, if you REALLY don't think there is any chance that the person that is about to be lynched can be scum, then sure, don't vote him. But if it seems like your target hardly gets any votes and your second highest scumread is at 4 votes with 30 minutes untill deadline, then I think you should swap your vote onto him. Lurkers!: There are two types of lurkers. The ones who doesn't post anything and the sneaky ones, who posts ALOT but nothing of value. The first category could either be bad town play or scum play. But the second category is almost exclusivly scum play. If you are a townie, speak your mind, don't make a super duper long post when you could've said it on just a few lines. Keep it simple. With that being said, post! Ignoring the copy-pasted policy stuff for now, Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution. Im pretty sure, again, that no one was even remotely close to voting in a way to force a nolynch. I love the bolded line; you could have kept this post simple and concise. But you decided to make it "super-duper long." ##vote: Lazermonkey Yourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer. Fos: yourharry Fos: lazermonkey Keep in mind, he's already spent a game tunneling grush, from what I can tell, it was related to fake-claims. Opens with hostility and a vote. To be fair, I don't think he's ever rolled scum, but his jumping out of the gate fighting looks like hes town yet again. He's never played with kush before. He also explained that he expects people to NOT derp all over the thread when they post here: + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote: On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote: EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @release Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? well, you were assigning Mason traits to the miller, which led to the confusion that it did between who should claim. Also, you didn't mention mason but the "town who can talk to each other." You avoided saying mason. Mason is clear. "town who can talk to each other" could be mason, but could be miller if someone assumed you were talking about who YOU thought "could talk to each other." Mafia is a game in which posts can't be editted. People tend to check their posts for any dubious or tentative information. I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. I wasn't talking about the mass claim. That was rather obvious. Sadly, kush is unable to meet that requirement. My "meta" read is that this strong aggression is in fact representative of town release. Keeping in mind that there are no scum games to compare with, I'm not willing to vote Release for his posts against kush. i also agree with this from Zealos: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 01:41 Zealos wrote: --SNIP-- That being said, I do think releases later posts have a townie attitude about them. He is saying what he appears to think without hiding anything or pushing a mafia agenda as far as I can tell. --SNIP-- I think I have a handle on this mason claim shitfest. I'm rereading this through more carefully because I just kind of glanced the thread over, but I think I'm going to be voting Muso in a moment. Incidentally, I also liked the content of this post as it agreed rather largely with what I found based on Release's meta. However, scum has an easy time making town reads look right, because they already know that the player is town. having gone through the Muso thing, i am feeling a little bit to tired to repeat the same things about his case against Hopeless1der. What i will say is that it does have both a scum case and a green case again. Knowing that Hope has flipped scum, i will NOT give any more credibility to this case than it deserves: it was an equivocal case that he could fall back on without having to appear too conspicuous and at the same time ditch without appearing too conspicuous. The red case is not as bad as the red case against Muso, but it is nothing extraordinary: Diction is a bit of a far stretch if ONE word is all that you are scoping. ---break from case--- I noticed that Hopeless1der seems to bite on my 1-1 trade idea and i can't help but feel that it was planted there as a scumslip; i doubt it was a coincidence that hope posts that then acro calls me out for such a thing then he calls hope a scum (albeit not for the same reason). --- resume--- calls out tunneling is ok. The scum and the lurk are good points in suggesting that Hope is a scum but are immediately followed by a Green Hopeless. Which makes me feel again that this is not going to be a conclusive post(it isn't; his vote stays on me.) A small plus for hope trying to get rid of Kush's flavor theory. Nothing huge. Darthpunk(or was it mkfuba?)also strongly opposed it. Liked the promies but at the end of this huge post: NO conclusive action or statements. This giant post, at the particular time did not serve any real purpose other than to appear useful. Equivocal. Conveniently, Hope is missing and Acrofales is the first to call this out. Now the case he wrote 8 hours back has some purpose to it. Essentially, he has exonerated himself from any blame/stance he had in the time between the post and the repost and 'claiming townie' because of this post. I don't like this. It reeks of someone who knows too much but can't keep it all together/hold himself accountable when shit actually starts happening (or his causing shit to happen). I give you Acro | ||
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On November 07 2012 00:38 Promethelax wrote: words: 1498 characters 8219 add the quotes and that stuff. This is a direct copy paste from word. I could even screeny. | ||
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On November 07 2012 03:22 Acrofales wrote: Okay... Release. We have established that you don't like my style of writing cases. Is there anything that you actually find scummy, rather than unlikeable? As for the dichotomy, it entirely 100% covers all cases. I just posted the 4 possible situations (discounting SK, who for all intents and purposes has the same information as town at that point). If you feel the conclusions I draw from one of them is wrong (namely, as you indicate, that I am scum and was pulling the bluff of the century), you are free to say so. You're wrong, btw. Now a bit more about the cases. I'm not going to claim my case on Hopeless1der was terribly strong. At the time I wasn't actually planning on voting with it. It was more an update of my findings, because earlier I had listed Hopeless1der as reading townie and I found that I no longer did so. It was more a case to gather feedback and spark discussion than a "lets lynch Hopeless" case at the time. However, as time went on I found Prom looking slightly less scummy. My entire thought process is layed out in the thread: I even wanted to no-lynch at one point, because nobody was talking, I was not feeling secure enough about Prom anymore and I thought it was mylo. When people came back and started talking and I learned it wasn't mylo, I figured Prom was back on the table. However, the longer the discussion with Prom (and the other people active at the time) went, the less I felt a Prom lynch. My only alternative at that time was Hopeless1der, whose defense I was not particularly happy with (I could explain it post-hoc, but what's the point, he flipped scum). Why were you off the table at the time? 1. Your case on Kush, with connections and all that jazz. It seemed too farfetched to be some crazyness made up by scum. 2. The main point of my case on you was based on a misunderstanding. 3. Your defense seemed adequate at the time. I presume that explains my thought process enough? You still haven't really said what you think of Drazak. You agree that he needs to be killed asap? About the nonconclusive case about Muso? That was just putting your thoughts out too? The "not strong" is partly my point about your cases: You don't hold yourself particularly accountable to them. Compare youself to risk: He's extremely terse but every post at least has something fairly concrete about it. Your posts are pretty much the opposite (except for the case against me) which brings me to: the case against me: The main point about the case against me is that you made a definitive Release is scum with no "maybe a townie too." Your other posts do not have the same conclusiveness. I don't feel that he needs to be killed asap. However, he still has not given any reasoning for his posts. If he posts nothing before the resolution period (he might be busy, and boy does he not like kills based on irl stuff getting in the way), then he needs to be killed. So essentially, i'm fine with a Drazak kill that gets sent in 1 minute before the deadline (given he doesnt post...) | ||
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Had i been there, i would probably have voted for Hopeless when he came back to the thread and didn't defend himself. However, i would have switched to promethelax after a lynch against Hope was secured. It's just how i roll. My top three scum right now are: Prome, Acro, and Kush. However, Drazak will shoot to the top if he does not provide a tenable response before the deadline. My reaction to the lynch: Got a scum so we live for another day. That's good. Hope had been pretty silent all game and he seemed to have planned some scumslips (in hindsight ofc). It seems like he was bussed by Acro (to me, although no one seems to share that view). On November 06 2012 07:47 Hopeless1der wrote: I think I explained that post, and why I don't think your scum right now. Scumreads: Acro for making a billion cases and finally getting one to stick. Draz for being useless and OMGUS'ing everyone. I don't have a third right now. + Show Spoiler + Just because he is scum is not a reason for us to want to ignore everything he says: at the time he was certainly going to die and he should be thinking that his words would be considered with disdain at best (aka not considered seriously). Not to say that this is entirely trustworthy, but Hope makes this case work and Acro get's off free as an impossible scum. | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:51 Acrofales wrote: So Release, do you think Drazak is scum? Or what the hell is your opinion on him? Why must the kill be sent in 1 minute before the deadline. The mind boggles. I think the last minute switch is fine. But that he has no reason for his own actions is not. If he can give us his reasons for why he did what he did, I'd be OK with keeping him alive. However, if he doesn't then he is just bullshitting us and we should kill him. This sounds wishy-washy as fawk but this is how i think. Here for another 1-2 minutes and be back later. | ||
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On November 07 2012 05:47 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 05:44 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 07 2012 03:22 Acrofales wrote: Okay... Release. We have established that you don't like my style of writing cases. Is there anything that you actually find scummy, rather than unlikeable? As for the dichotomy, it entirely 100% covers all cases. I just posted the 4 possible situations (discounting SK, who for all intents and purposes has the same information as town at that point). If you feel the conclusions I draw from one of them is wrong (namely, as you indicate, that I am scum and was pulling the bluff of the century), you are free to say so. You're wrong, btw. Now a bit more about the cases. I'm not going to claim my case on Hopeless1der was terribly strong. At the time I wasn't actually planning on voting with it. It was more an update of my findings, because earlier I had listed Hopeless1der as reading townie and I found that I no longer did so. It was more a case to gather feedback and spark discussion than a "lets lynch Hopeless" case at the time. However, as time went on I found Prom looking slightly less scummy. My entire thought process is layed out in the thread: I even wanted to no-lynch at one point, because nobody was talking, I was not feeling secure enough about Prom anymore and I thought it was mylo. When people came back and started talking and I learned it wasn't mylo, I figured Prom was back on the table. However, the longer the discussion with Prom (and the other people active at the time) went, the less I felt a Prom lynch. My only alternative at that time was Hopeless1der, whose defense I was not particularly happy with (I could explain it post-hoc, but what's the point, he flipped scum). Why were you off the table at the time? 1. Your case on Kush, with connections and all that jazz. It seemed too farfetched to be some crazyness made up by scum. 2. The main point of my case on you was based on a misunderstanding. 3. Your defense seemed adequate at the time. I presume that explains my thought process enough? You still haven't really said what you think of Drazak. You agree that he needs to be killed asap? About the nonconclusive case about Muso? That was just putting your thoughts out too? The "not strong" is partly my point about your cases: You don't hold yourself particularly accountable to them. Compare youself to risk: He's extremely terse but every post at least has something fairly concrete about it. Your posts are pretty much the opposite (except for the case against me) which brings me to: the case against me: The main point about the case against me is that you made a definitive Release is scum with no "maybe a townie too." Your other posts do not have the same conclusiveness. I don't feel that he needs to be killed asap. However, he still has not given any reasoning for his posts. If he posts nothing before the resolution period (he might be busy, and boy does he not like kills based on irl stuff getting in the way), then he needs to be killed. So essentially, i'm fine with a Drazak kill that gets sent in 1 minute before the deadline (given he doesnt post...) So you believe him? Please state this, or the opposite, explicitly. If he posts something before deadline, I'll believe him. Otherwise, not. | ||
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##vote drazak His defense before the deadline wasn't tenable. avoid a mislynch? The response that would have exonerated him (in my eyes) is that he had no reason at all, or that he was dicking around with his vote because already secured. | ||
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On November 07 2012 09:04 thrawn2112 wrote: release, you think that acro claimed mason while knowing that muso was town? seems too crazy I just feel that this is leading to wifom. On November 03 2012 21:11 Acrofales wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 03 2012 19:48 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 14:05 kushm4sta wrote: Acrofales There's the flavor theory but that is just one piece of the puzzle. What are the odds of two town fake claiming? I think it was a calculated scum risk. Question to people who know mafia possibilities better than me: Is there some way scum could know muso was fake claiming? Even if he didn't know, consider this: Would acro's claim have looked more scummy if Muso turned out to be mason? It seems like the is yes, but there is equal scumminess to action whether muso was mason or not. This is because when the action took place, acro had no way to know if the claim was fake or not. The only tool he had to discern the fake claim was his wits, which he has as mafia or town. So don't let muso not being mason make you think his action is any less scummy. His defense is that it would be retarded for scum to fake claim. Do you see how that logic is circular? It is retarded for scum to do that, therefore doing that makes you look town, therefore it is smart for scum to do that. Also don't forget the flavor theory! This is a huge town tell on Kush. These were the thoughts I had as well but had not yet expressed due to the awful timing of that TL drop. Sorry I have been gone so long, work is a thing I have to do. I don't know of any way for mafia to know someone's role at that point. Kush. My name doesn't fit the theme you are looking at. How does that affect your read? I would also point to Acro giving out the idea that Kush and I would look scummy if Muso flipped town. Setting up the next mislynch. Figured I'd answer you two as a 2-for-1. You are both idiots for thinking Muso flipping green makes me look scummy. I don't think I am "confirmed town", because you can wifom a scum motive into pretty much anything, but you have to admit that Ockham's razor dubs me as pretty damn townie at this point. I was writing up my entire thought process, but I realized I don't need to. The reason is that counter-claiming a mason claim as scum is beyond idiotic. And anybody not seeing that I am almost certainly town through these actions is simply tunneling, or scum trying to discredit me. To answer kush's question: there is no way for scum to know the claim is fake, other than the same way I did: the claim felt wrong. However, as scum you have EXTRA information: you know the claimer is town. Anybody who has not played scum (apparently quite a few of you) do not know how much power that gives you: you never have to doubt or second-guess your cases: you know what is true about them already. If you want an example, look at Mattchew's play in Holy Roman Maffia. He bussed all his teammates, because he couldn't see how anybody could overlook some of their "obvious" scumslips. However, it also limits you: you do NOT question a townie claiming mason. Simply doesn't happen. At most a scum would've ticked it as "possible fake claim, maybe SK?" There is absolutely NO reason for scum to counterclaim. None. Anybody trying to wifom this around is simply lacking in knowledge on how scum plays. Yes, you could wifom anything and say "but if people think scum has no reason to counterclaim masons then they DO have a reason to counterclaim masons"... except that in most cases this will result in the scum getting lynched. I KNEW I'd have an uphill battle to not get lynched if Muso's claim was true. It was why I set up the whole encrypted thing beforehand. + Show Spoiler + The flavour theory is retarded. It's all I can say in my defense against that. It is fucking stupid to try to use flavour in Bugs' games, who meticulously sets up the game so flavour CANNOT be used and good old-fashioned analysis must prevail. Keep your mechanic-based analysis to themed games. This and that he repeatedly calls himself town still leave me doubtful. | ||
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On November 07 2012 09:17 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 09:07 Release wrote: Yo. I was roleblocked. ##vote drazak His defense before the deadline wasn't tenable. avoid a mislynch? The response that would have exonerated him (in my eyes) is that he had no reason at all, or that he was dicking around with his vote because already secured. why did you change your mind on drazak? because he didn't respond by some arbitrary time? you said a lot of words during n1 about how acro is scum, and you specifically said that acro, prome, and kush are your top scumreads. to me your drazak vote looks like you're abandoning your scumreads to sheep onto the popular vote I said if he didn't provide a tenable response (aka no reason), he would shoot to the top. He didn't, so he shot to the top. | ||
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Already mentioned (no reason/dicking around b/c secured); i won't change my mind unless he convinces me of another scum. This is not to say that i won't change my vote: this is to say that i won't stop believing that he is scummy. | ||
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I stated what i would think based on what Drazak would do. Drazak acted and i responded. I don't see how this is scummy. Kush, you want me to claim? | ||
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On November 07 2012 10:35 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 10:29 Release wrote: i spy with my little eye someone looking for blues There are already so many confirmed blues lol. Also if you know my scum style at all you would know that I would NEVER try to hunt blues as red. But you're forever changing. Being less emotional... Trying to hunt blues... as red... | ||
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On November 07 2012 10:42 kushm4sta wrote: @acro omg what if the mafia didn't kill anyone ON PURPOSE so that we couldn't get any more flavor information?? If i change my vote now, I will be "afraid to bus my scum buddy" or "too wish-washy" so i'll make use of FOS: kush You are not town. Draz is scum. Consider yourself lucky. | ||
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On November 07 2012 14:24 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 14:17 Release wrote: On November 07 2012 10:42 kushm4sta wrote: @acro omg what if the mafia didn't kill anyone ON PURPOSE so that we couldn't get any more flavor information?? If i change my vote now, I will be "afraid to bus my scum buddy" or "too wish-washy" so i'll make use of FOS: kush You are not town. Draz is scum. Consider yourself lucky. Do you actually want to change your vote? That's a perfect example of a post that makes me think you feel guilty. I know what'll happen if i change my vote: "afraid to bus my scum buddy!" "too wish-washy!" w/e: ##unvote: ##vote: draz ##unvote ##vote: kush ##unvote ##vote: draz I'll take either. | ||
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##vote: kush | ||
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Draz. made that pretty clear. Kush is definitely not town (aka maybe SK) and it's not just what the town will think. It's the subsequent shitstorm that is not about scumhunting, but OMGUSing i want to avoid. | ||
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On November 07 2012 14:17 Release wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 10:42 kushm4sta wrote: @acro omg what if the mafia didn't kill anyone ON PURPOSE so that we couldn't get any more flavor information?? If i change my vote now, I will be "afraid to bus my scum buddy" or "too wish-washy" so i'll make use of FOS: kush You are not town. Draz is scum. Consider yourself lucky. That's a scumslip if I ever saw one. | ||
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No, i'm saying you're right in that my postis hella scummy and guilty-sounding. | ||
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If you delay and cite only this later, i will call bullshitting. | ||
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Should i still claim? | ||
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Can't exactly call out scum if someone doesn't conform to the c9++ / w/e setup | ||
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Drazak can be dealt with. There is a strong support for his lynch and if my vote is needed, sure, but I believe Kush is not town as strongly i believe that Drazak is scum | ||
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On November 08 2012 09:47 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 08 2012 09:45 Release wrote: kush is definitely not town. I don't see his helping by flooding the thread with flavor. Drazak can be dealt with. There is a strong support for his lynch and if my vote is needed, sure, but I believe Kush is not town as strongly i believe that Drazak is scum If you beleive both of those with the same intensity, it doesn't make sense why you wouldn't just vote for drazak. You'd rather hit someone who could either be sk/mafia instead of someone you think could only be mafia? he (kush) is the one derailing the thread more and preventing us from finding the last scum. | ||
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Honestly, all game, i thought Risk was the silent half of a Mason Pair, but i didn't think he was non-town because of the abundance of other non-town -looking people. Acro a RB? I don't know what to make of it. The story works out but that's not too hard to create. He might be a scum RB and but this could probably be proved false by asking him to RB someone other than Draz or Kush (or me...) Ehh. I believe it. No one else has claimed to RB me. Have we accounted for all the RBs today? | ||
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On November 08 2012 11:11 Acrofales wrote: Did some thinking about kush claiming rb'd. I think scum rb'd him, thinking he is the SK. That's making me think he's town. why? | ||
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I still do think it's a scummy thing. here's a better way to say it: If we lynched Draz, and Kush and they turned out to be scum and SK respectively and after 2 nights you were still alive, I'd want to lynch you. + Show Spoiler + if either turns out green/blue, i'd have to rethink and re-analyze which claims to believe. | ||
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Sure it is exaggeration but give me a decent reason for your flavor theory other blue-hunting. | ||
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How about, it's a failure to comprehend logic that neither scum nor town nor sk would make because of their alignment? It does not show alignment. Only that i was smoking when i wrote that. The truth is, you and acro are the two who claim "I'm town" more than anyone else in this thread. | ||
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___________________________________________________ More interestingly, Draz has still not delivered. Maybe kush went to sleep, but i'd like to see a legitimate reason for the flavor theory. + Show Spoiler + I don't want to hear more flavor hint hint hint+ Show Spoiler + I want to hear why from the very start you even chose ot pursue it after wbg said game cannot be broken with it. | ||
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is there a possibility that there are two SKs in this game | ||
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you are more not town than drazak is scum is my conclusion from that post: "let's bandwagon. || Let's not even consider anyone else because we have a bandwagon." | ||
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On November 09 2012 04:40 Acrofales wrote: No. 1. I was lazy. 2. I was fully expecting to get shot before any necessity to claim came up. a lack of accountability. | ||
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On November 09 2012 04:45 Release wrote: Any specific posts i made to make you want to RB me? + Show Spoiler + is there a possibility that there are two SKs in this game | ||
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On November 09 2012 05:10 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 09 2012 05:04 Release wrote: On November 09 2012 04:45 Release wrote: Any specific posts i made to make you want to RB me? + Show Spoiler + is there a possibility that there are two SKs in this game Look at what I was thinking at the end of the night. Figured there's a good chance you're the SK. I still think there's a good chance you're the SK, btw. I was literally asking for any posts: i take that it's a no? | ||
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On November 06 2012 14:17 Release wrote: Yo. I'm back. Obviously, my conspiracy theory has been proven incorrect, especially the part about Kush, which brings to this: At the time i said Acro was my most tentative not-townie, but as of now, I'm taking drazak of that sheet. Kush, stop fucking trolling around. It makes it legitimately hard for me (and others) to determine whether you are scum. This is a scum trait, as townies are trying to establish their innocence. All of this flavor theory and trolling around bullshit has been your excuse for otherwise deplorable play all game. I don't believe for a second that you actually believed in your theory or that you unvoted because of your theory. The green check has allowed you to coast through this game scotch free and I say this is the time it stops.I will consider any flavor comment or other trolling comment from you from now on to be a wish to be dead. Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people. I think the whole Drazak pulling a last minute vote switch is a null read. Anything more is way too far into wifom (for me at least) to read into. Personally, if I had been there, I too would probably have pulled a vote-switch to dare/bait someone to switch but afaik, I am the only person who does such a thing as that, so no townie points to drazak for that. Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 13:25 Promethelax wrote: <snip> SK/Vig knocking out scum is where it is at, Draz is a good choice. Even if he isn't scum (unlikely, I know) the thread will be more conducive to a scum hunt next day with him gone. SK, your best bet is to work with town, esspesially if you took check immune, get scum and you'll be fine. <snip> fawking hell. More of this damage limitation stuff. I find it scum-motivated. We kill (whether by lynching or vigging) to kill scum. Not for information, not for removing a townie that isn't particularly conducive to scum-hunting. Already made a case against you for this on day 1 and i don't feel like repeating myself. + Show Spoiler + (yes, i know you think he is almost certain scum, i did read that before you storm in here. My point is that these clauses you use to say that we kill him regardless of alignment are scummy as fawk.) Something about Acrofales on the way.... Well, i have a feeling that this is the post that got me RBed. out of time. | ||
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The purpose of the breadcrumb was to see whether i would be role blocked for wanting to vig kush. A side effect is that it drew RB away from other town (i was assuming that if i were RBed, it would be a mafia RB). | ||
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On November 09 2012 08:57 Acrofales wrote: Show nested quote + On November 09 2012 08:55 Release wrote: I claimed VT. I'll claim VT again. The purpose of the breadcrumb was to see whether i would be role blocked for wanting to vig kush. A side effect is that it drew RB away from other town (i was assuming that if i were RBed, it would be a mafia RB). What's your rolename. Chop chop now, you've had plenty of time to fabricate one. 10 minutes. What was the point of this? Kush already provided enough flavor bullshit. Why you? | ||
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I've opposed flavor theory all game. Now you know why. And answer why you have been pursuing flavor theory all game (other than blue-hunting). I asked that a while ago and you still haven't answered. | ||
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On November 09 2012 09:17 kushm4sta wrote: Well release because you are the only vt with a character name is why. That doesn't seem odd to you? also before I didn't see that wbg said the game isn't breakable with flavor lol but then again "breakable" could mean a lot of different things. 1) no. He said it's not breakable and i don't think it is. 2) Yes you did. It's been mentioned several times. At least twice by the host or the cohost in bold blue. 3) If they let us claim it, i don't think it would let us win the game. Hence why we can't post PM box pictures. | ||
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Doesn't strike you as an awkward sentence? Ofc i would feel annoyed. We all would. Who cares if we got the GF? He's scum. There's no point in mentioning the GF specifically. | ||
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On November 10 2012 01:49 kushm4sta wrote: I suspect release, risk, dp, and possibly prome. Why do you suspect dp and possibly prome if Risk and I have the two KP? The connotation with your earlier post is that you want both of us dead because of our KP. What do DP and prome play in this scenario? Here's what I think: It's very interesting that you are going so far as to implicate two people whom you don't think have kp and intentionally obfuscate when Acro seems to understand correctly your previous post. I'll be on in about 20 minutes for about 5 minutes and then my lunch ends. | ||
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Going with acro in that kush cannot be scum. | ||
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##unvote ##vote: kush an SK is better than an uncertain scum | ||
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I still haven't gotten an answer for flavor theory other than "lol i didn't see" | ||
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##vote: risk.nuke finished reading through his filter and i feel that he is quite scummy. + Show Spoiler + Wishy-washy as fuck early game. Tried to avoid a no-lynch and advocate a prome lynch (with a sense of urgency) after that. And in general he seems to make himself out to be this know-all no-bullshit kind of guy. | ||
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On November 03 2012 22:18 risk.nuke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:07 drazak wrote: risk.nuke has not a lot to go on in his filter, and every single one of his comments is 1 line and most of them are fluffy. I think this is even worse than my posts have been. I find him 2nd scummiest after muso. Pardon but what exactly in my filter do you believe is fluff? On November 04 2012 01:31 risk.nuke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 04 2012 01:27 drazak wrote: On November 04 2012 01:09 thrawn2112 wrote: On November 02 2012 20:02 kushm4sta wrote: Acro Wtf... Why is town fake claiming... So vts look at your role name. Jessica rabbit does not fit the theme. Kid watching tv kind of does though. ##unvote ##vote acro Calls Acro town... then votes Acro? I think Kush just didn't think Acro was town at the time, so he's like, "why the fuck are you fake claiming and then saying you fake claimed and then still claim town?" I think it was just incredulity. This just comes from watching a lot of kush's game though and knowing how his troll mind works. Drazek, what was fluff in my post. On November 05 2012 21:49 risk.nuke wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2012 21:45 drazak wrote: Sorry, I was sick all weekend, what did you guys want me to do? try voting... Drazak has been uncooperative and scummy all game. No real point in talking to him. These three posts seems like attempts to elicit more shit out of Drazak, and ofc Drazak doesn't say anything useful so they make Risk look good. | ||
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Surely, Kush's "own" name, to which he could be comparing the other VT names, could be his fakeclaim | ||
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Risk has basically flung suspicion around and abandoned town | ||
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Prome - VT fuba - OneShotJK DP - JK Kush - VT Thrawn - OneShotCop Correct me if I'm wrong (about any of the roles or my specualtion) but we have 1 scum and 1 RB-role. If Kush were scum, there would have to be another scum that is framer. Or Thrawn is a town lying about his check. I don't think either is true so Kush is almost certain town. Thrawn's check could have come from either a townie or a scum so nothing revealing there. dp COULD be scum in that he RBs someone and shoots someone else, and the person whom he RBs never dies. But this is purely hypothetical. Fuba has the confirmed JK on prome. Prome and I have nothing. That's all I have so far. I'm shit at this stuff. | ||
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I thought all of the suspicion against me was for being the highly likely SK and the not-so-likely scum? | ||
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On November 12 2012 09:06 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + Release - VT Prome - VT fuba - OneShotJK DP - JK Kush - VT Thrawn - OneShotCop Correct me if I'm wrong (about any of the roles or my specualtion) but we have 1 scum and 1 RB-role. If Kush were scum, there would have to be another scum that is framer. Or Thrawn is a town lying about his check. I don't think either is true so Kush is almost certain town. Thrawn's check could have come from either a townie or a scum so nothing revealing there. dp COULD be scum in that he RBs someone and shoots someone else, and the person whom he RBs never dies. But this is purely hypothetical. Fuba has the confirmed JK on prome. Prome and I have nothing. That's all I have so far. I'm shit at this stuff. Although, fuba could just be scum RB who won't use his RB. | ||
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If there is a kill, I am not scum. If there is no kill, we have another day to hash things out. (Yes, the scum might withhold a KP.) | ||
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I smell with my little nose a freshly painted tunnel. | ||
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On November 08 2012 13:26 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm back. My vote was up in the air in the beginning, because I was pondering over possibly voting kush. I'll stick with draz for now, since now that I've got confirmation bias out of my system, I can't confirm my theory until one of them flips. ##Vote drazak @Release: I think it's likely that someone with a kp who was roleblocked would be more inclined to report it, because then there's a roleblocker out there who knows you haven't told the truth. But on that note, the fact that you appear to have not thought of that makes me think you're town. Edit: saw I was ninja'd. Wanted to comment anyway. On November 08 2012 16:02 mkfuba07 wrote: I considered it, but I feel that scum wouldn't even consider saying what he did. As scum, I feel it would be my first reaction: "Can I just not claim? No, I have to claim, or someone will know I'm lying." As such, I would never consider it proof of innocence. I feel that he's wrong, and scum would never think to fake being wrong in that way. Does that make sense? Fuba was the only one to support the case for my comment + Show Spoiler + On November 08 2012 13:10 Release wrote: On a day on which no one dies, occam's razor says that those who have kill roles will not claim to be RBed. It would lead to that line of reasoning ,"no one dead, this guy RBed, this guy has killing role" I don't see anything that my post actually shows except for my inability to play mafia well. It is not townie and i don't see why fuba should defend me like that. @darthpunk What if Fuba is just the scum RB who claimed one-shot and isn't going to use his RB powers anymore? | ||
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He's not particularly in my interest as i have been looking through fuba's filter, but i'll try to make a statement about hrawn soon | ||
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On November 02 2012 13:41 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 13:30 Muso wrote: Again, honestly I thought the masons would come to the right conclusion. Reasoning for my claim: 1. Masons are powerful, and frequently underestimated in their value. If I were scum I would perceive them as a serious threat, probably more so than a cop in this setup. In this setup the likelihood of mafia hitting town every night is at least >95% (aka not hitting a SK). Let's pretend it's 100% and let's pretend that nobody gets saved by a Doc. The result is 1 town death every night. As a citizen or vanilla townie as it's called here, it's my job to throw myself in the way of the mafia and convince them to use their kill on me because it buys the town power roles time. none of that has any relevance to fake claiming mason Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 13:30 Muso wrote: 2. The wealth of information and reads that are available from this train is enormous. I doubt anybody will disagree with the idea that we've gained a lot more information from today than we would have had we led a lynch on somebody based upon the minor scum hunting that occurred in the first half of today. Not to say that that stuff isn't valuable, just that this provides more definitive answers. Even if nobody is satisfied with my explanations and this does go through to a lynch, this point will remain true. The true Mason reveal was regrettable and once again I do take the blame for that. So if you're saying that you did this to get information and reads, you do realize that if you're actually town, then you're the only person atm who can make those reads? If you did this as town, you've put yourself in a position where it's almost impossible to avoid getting lynched.... how does that help us makes reads based on people's reactions towards you until after we've seen your flip? I accept that townies can intentionally look scummy to make reads.... but the manner in which you supposedly did it and your explanations for what it would actually accomplish just don't make any sense. I want to see two things from you: 1) a clear a concise explanation of what exactly you were trying to accomplish by claiming mason 2) some reads Such posts as these actually gets things done. points for you ____________________________________________________ Asking for others' opinions On November 01 2012 10:50 thrawn2112 wrote: kush you think release is scum or town? On November 01 2012 23:35 thrawn2112 wrote: risk, say something about release On November 09 2012 07:50 thrawn2112 wrote: anyone else here that wants to lynch release? kush you can always change your vote if it doesn't work out On November 03 2012 04:46 thrawn2112 wrote: @prom I'd like to hear you talk some more about muso. You said that you didn't want him lynched today but that he was a good vig shot... what are your actual opinions about him being town/scum? On November 05 2012 05:30 thrawn2112 wrote: Release, why do you think prom is the sk? Give your specific reasons. There's a lot more of this. On the one hand it makes things clearer (but most posts do). However, what i read from this is someone who doesn't have too good a feel of how town feels at a given moment in time and is scummy. points away from you. In general (at least until page 5 of your filter) you've been very strong at logic and whatnot so I feel that if you were town, you wouldn't ask as many general questions. __________________________________________________ My guilt: On November 07 2012 14:24 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 07 2012 14:17 Release wrote: On November 07 2012 10:42 kushm4sta wrote: @acro omg what if the mafia didn't kill anyone ON PURPOSE so that we couldn't get any more flavor information?? If i change my vote now, I will be "afraid to bus my scum buddy" or "too wish-washy" so i'll make use of FOS: kush You are not town. Draz is scum. Consider yourself lucky. Do you actually want to change your vote? That's a perfect example of a post that makes me think you feel guilty. and some other posts i don't want to find right now: Yes it should make you feel that i feel guilty. What I said is that my posts made me look guilty. I however, did not feel guilty. I felt annoyed. I don't think it's too scummy not to care whether a scum or sk dies. I honestly feel like this is another one of my "i am not good at mafia posts" and you seem to take a much less strong stance than fuba did my post. points for you. __________________________________________________ some defense On November 09 2012 07:41 thrawn2112 wrote: his inherent guilt all game his story in d3 doesn't add up - has 3 people that aren't drazak as top scumreads during N2 - because drazak doesn't show up for N2 deadline, releases makes drazak his top scumread - votes for kush even though draz was his top read after I questioned a weird FOS he made against kush wtf was that vigi claim. I NEED to see an explanation for why he did it. As everyone else demonstrated, it is not a "fake" crumb, it was done intentionally. but it was so well hidden, what town purpose could it server? me thinks it's a scum hiding fake claims didn't vote for hopeless innocent wabbit is a scum name - lol hopeless - this post - other than that no mention of release ever again in hopeless filter - he was roleblocked and we have missing night kills Why would i bring up the vigi claim in the first place? other parts have been answered. _______________________________________________ You seemed pretty focussed on a Risk/Kush/Me scum and SK. But i think this is pretty null in terms of alignment. SO overall, i feel that I can forgive your eliciting opinions from the town to gain a townie perspective (it is something townies want too, just something scum want more) and you are probably not the last scum. (definitely less likely than Fuba) | ||
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Acro RBs me. DP jails Kush Fuba RBs prome Some acro logic: Fuba knows that Thrawn is town (or SK claim) so he is less likely to doubt the green check than town and town didn't doubt it too much. Kush is the confirmed green so it be best if he took a shot at Kush. | ||
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Kush and I were the heavily suspected SKs and if Kush died, then I would be the next lynch. | ||
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I am not porky pig. I did hate the flavor theory from the very start but i thought that as a town, we could ignore it. For the most part, we did manage to avoid flavor theory although the two N1 kills were probably helped by the few claims of VT in day1. I claimed to be porky pig in an attempt to silence the flavor theory once and for all so that we could focus on actually getting things done and forcing Kush to make actual reads instead of facetious fathoms about roles and names. I had kept silent until the moment of my claim because i had still believed that Kush had been blue-hunting but that moment felt like the optimal moment to claim as porky pig. I hope that you can all see that despite all of my bad play at mafia, this has been my contribution. I am painted tunnel btw. I did not breadcrumb earlier in the game because i never actually thought flavor theory would escalate in the way that it did. MY only (shitty bc) was "i smell with my little nose a freshly painted tunnel" | ||
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Here's what i suggest we do until that time: Keep your votes on me. Go hunt as though i am not the scum and see what you come up with. I'll do the same. | ||
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On November 13 2012 08:23 kushm4sta wrote: I still think release is scum. I'm just saying that the no kill means nothing. On November 12 2012 09:36 Release wrote: If I'm scum, ask DP to JK me. If there is a kill, I am not scum. If there is no kill, we have another day to hash things out. (Yes, the scum might withhold a KP.) Prome, do you read my posts or discard them as trash? Actual question. | ||
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My point is that Prome clearly didn't comprehend something that I already explained and required a second explanation from Kush. That's all. | ||
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On November 13 2012 11:28 Promethelax wrote: Yeah you do. So do the rest of us though. Release, after the reaction to your fake claim why did you fake claim again? Porky Pig and Vig seems a little excessive. Why make it so that town could not trust you? I'm still trying to make sense of Fuba's filter but I never claimed vig. I was trying to take a shot away from blues by saying i was going to vig kush (whom i thought was a blue-hunting sk) Porky pig was supposed to stop town from discussing so much flavor. I doubt town ever trusted me anyways. I am easily the worst player, my case on acro was horrible, my conspiracy was horrible too. | ||
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On November 13 2012 13:43 thrawn2112 wrote: My thoughts haven't changed much. Prom = confirmed town ofc, I also think that kush and dp are town. I was wary of fuba but release has been on my radar all game, and his new name claim stuff is hard to believe. He said he originally claimed something else in order to silence the vt flavor discussion... I don't see how claiming a name that doesn't fit with the theory would make people talk less about the theory. ##Vote: Release "Look! The Theory doesn't work. Better stop talking about it" versus "Hmmm. That fits. Let's try to figure out whose name fits the least" | ||
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On November 13 2012 16:02 kushm4sta wrote: @DP I don't get why we have to make cases now and not after the flip?? If there is a case it will still be there to be made after the flip. don't make excuses. Just do it. It'll help the town. That should be your goal. @prome Fuba's filter is only 5 pages long but the first page is fucking dense. | ||
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FUBA On November 02 2012 02:59 mkfuba07 wrote: Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up. About Release: I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today. As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim. ##Vote Muso He's already buddying up to me. Note the lack of anything extreme: "He might ..." instead of "is bad" and "slight..." On November 02 2012 10:50 mkfuba07 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote: Okay. I take full responsibility for this situation. Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault. 1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following: 1. this is a suicide play as scum 2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams, Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you. I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla. 2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now. 1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal? 2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim. I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town... ##Unvote Muso I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later. Muso, too, is bad and a potential buddying target. He is quite indecisive here and i see the unvote as a testament to what can be seen in the bold. On November 03 2012 05:45 mkfuba07 wrote: Yeah, sry guys. I've been reading the thread for the last few hours, trying to figure out what I want to do... I don't feel like voting for Muso. I actually have a slight town read on him. I really wouldn't mind a vig shot on him, though. There's a lot of mystery around him, and he's going to be on my mind for the rest of the game after this D1. A vig would save us the worry. Looking through Draz's filter, I'm not really liking what I'm seeing. Most of his posts are one-liners that don't even really contribute to scumhunting. His posts seem like a lot of riling people up instead of true scumhunting. Then he gives himself an out for the rest of D1 by saying that it's too crazy to deal with and that he'll have better reads after the night post. Well of course he will - we should all have better reads after a flip. I think he has the best chance of flipping scum so far. ##Vote drazak Muso is essentially in the same position that i am in but he votes for someone else, yet today, he instantly votes for me. Concession: there is no other heavily suspected target today. But the amount of suspicion on drazak was significantly less than what was on Muso. On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote: Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak. I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Muso Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba... Drazak made one that was actually worth something(list post) but it definitely didn't warrant the bolded part. He made that post along with other fluffy posts. Someone who was suspicious of Drazak on day 1 really didn't have any reason to stop being suspicious of him. (not voting for him ok, but still remain suspicious) The voting is reasonable. And the last line is pretty much as guilt-looking as I looked for some of my posts. On November 04 2012 22:01 mkfuba07 wrote: Hi all. I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD Wants direction from town and feels that he is weak at analyzing. I have no idea how bad he is but he can't be worse than I, and his opinion is certainly worth something so is does help, but he excuses himself for not having to actually analyze. On November 05 2012 00:15 mkfuba07 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 04 2012 02:47 DarthPunk wrote:I have a scum read on drazak. He has posted mainly one liners commenting on the by play of proceedings rather than bring any original thought or information to the thread. He has also been consistently wishy-washy in his posting. On November 02 2012 23:36 drazak wrote: Yeah, I'm getting a bit fed up with Kush asking for everyone to claim everything, that smells a little scummy to me. Kind of not sure if it's just kush being stupid and trolling like usual (yes, I know, I'm omgusing, don't care) or if he's actually got a larger scheme here. Kush has admited to me a bunch of times that he doesn't thinks before he posts, so I dunno, but he keeps being stupid I think we can chalk it up to stupidity/trolling, if he stops, it was probably a scheme. I'm not sure what to think about prom, the case against him is ok, but maybe prplhz was distracted and/or confused. Like I was going to go through this post and bold the wishy-washy bits but then I may as well have bolded the entire post. Just read that and find one solid statement. Because I sure as hell can't. But note the part I have bolded and then read drazak's subsequent series of posts which stuck out to me quite starkly. He goes from wishy washy on kush. Saying he could be scummy. Then he posts his role name somewhat aggressively. On November 03 2012 05:53 drazak wrote: Kush, do you even read my posts? Also, trying to write a long post in another window, hold on a bit. I'm a VT, Carrot, btw. After which kush thinks he is town based on his theory with the flavor immediatly after kush unvotes him and declares him to be town. Drazak posts his 'reads' On November 03 2012 06:07 drazak wrote: Release actually tried to scumhunt, I'm seeing town on him, even though he still wants to vote for me. I don't think he's done anything to cause confusion, and I think he really wants to find a mafia right now, which is what I'm trying to do. Mattchew is also looking town, although I'd like him to be a bit more active, I don't think he'd say that he likes his gut instincts D1 if he didn't believe in them and have somewhat decent evidence, less town than release but definitely a town read. Hope has about the right amount of defensiveness for a townie, he's gone to lurk mode around lynch time which makes me a little nervous, everyone else seems to be here and willing to talk except him. Not sure what he's up to but when he starts posting again I hope he has a good explaination, I'm neutral on him right now. Thrawn has been trying his damnedest to scumhunt for a D1 hunt, not sure what he thinks he might actually accomplish, but he's asking questions like I should be (but I don't because I suck ) and trying to make things happen. I find him distinctly town at the moment. risk.nuke has not a lot to go on in his filter, and every single one of his comments is 1 line and most of them are fluffy. I think this is even worse than my posts have been. I find him 2nd scummiest after muso. Kush is just doing his fucking trolly ass shit. Town meta for him 100% Zealos doesn't vote anyone and isn't happy with Acro or Muso, not sure what to think here, he wants to vote two of my town reads, not sure I like this, but might just not be following that closely. First of all I hate lists such as these. They allow scum to seem to participate without actually doing anything. A few sentences on several players comprise drazak's 'reads' HOWEVER. Note the read on kush. He has gone from scummy and wishy-washy to 100% town meta. IMMEDIATELY after kush declares a town read on drazak. It seems as if Drazaks opinion of someones scumminess is linked to their opinion on draz. Now THAT is scummy to me. Combined with all the wishy-washy posting and fluff one liners. I would certainly like to lynch drazak. Snipped out the drazak portion. While I'm by no means certain of it (as I am rarely certain of anything), I'm back to thinking there's a strong chance that drazak will flip scum. I realized while considering this case that too often I immediately give people the benefit of the doubt. That being said, here's my analysis. Firstly, I don't see wishy-washiness as a very strong scum tell. This is because I am probably the wishy-washiest player who has ever played on TL and I've only rolled scum once. I understand that it is a scum tell for other people, but I just can't see it that way. That being said, the fact that drazak's read on kush seemed to change as a direct result of kush's read on drazak changing certainly feels scummy. I didn't feel a particular change in kush's play during that time. In addition, this recent post from him makes me feel like he thinks kush is scummy again, despite the fact that he said kush was 100% playing to his town meta: Show nested quote + On November 04 2012 22:03 drazak wrote: so... we've got an sk for sure? No way that was a vig shot or something? Hey kush, why did you bluehunt so hard, I'm not cool with that. Finally, what DP said about the "list of reads" posts are what made me realize what makes me so wishy-washy. On that point I was reading drazak's posts as a townie trying to avoid a mislynch without equally considering that it was scum trying to avoid a legitimate lynch. Given that everything I've previously mentioned about drazak's play still holds true imo, he's my top scumread at the moment. @Drazak What made you switch from "kush looks kinda scummy" to "kush is playing 100% to his town meta"? And do you now think kush is playing scummy again? Now that Drazak is looking bad again (he never actually looked good tbh) fuba excuses himself for ever considering Drazak as town and what used to make drazak look good now make drazak look bad. I see a lack of a focussed train of thought here. Bus begins here (-ish) | ||
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On November 05 2012 04:24 mkfuba07 wrote: First of all, I completely missed your request for my top three scumreads from you Acro. My apologies. I actually don't think I have three at the moment. Drazak is definitely one of them. I'm still waiting on a response from him. After reading your case against Release, which makes a lot of sense, he's back on the list. His immediate appearance in the thread, as you've pointed out, strengthens the case. I'd make him the second one. Third... I'm not sure. I'm going to look at Prome's D2 as a whole, instead of in individual posts to see if I see the same things Hope does. One thing that struck me as odd was when risk posted about Prome fake claiming being roleblocked, simply because the same thought occurred to me as well. I accepted Acro's claim immediately, but Prome's made me feel weird about him. I don't know why, but maybe my read through his D2 will give me some insight. Right now it's just a bad feeling accompanying my earlier town read. However, as Acro pointed out, it's easy to act town for a while to save yourself or your scumbuddies, but if you have to do it over an extended period of time you'll probably slip up somehow. Finally, my school's cdl team just roped me into streaming and casting our team's match in 45 minutes, so I have to get ready for that. I should be back in about... four hours at most. Buddies up to Risk in this post. But ofc, doesn't take full responsibility, by mentioning risk. "I don't know why" = excuses himself again for not having actual reasoning. """"""@Kush: You can see indecisiveness and inherent guilt in every one of my games here. You've basically described my meta perfectly. The difference in this case is that I don't have far more experienced players who understand my meta in this game to defend me from my own shortcomings. This means I have to explain it to those who haven't played with me before so that they don't jump down my throat for something that I've done in every game. You've essentially accused me of playing to my meta (I won't say town meta, since I don't even have a full scum game here) and being honest/transparent. It's actually a bit strange, because you've actually played with me before and should understand this. Oh, and what are your reasons for wanting to lynch hopeless?""""" Didn't want to quote the whole post: Excuses himself again. Kush outlines what i basically have in detail and Fuba chooses to excuse himself based on Meta (which, I'll say again, i think is completely shit) On November 06 2012 04:50 mkfuba07 wrote: Man this post took a while. I'm back and I should be at my computer until the end of the day (right after a shower, as I just woke up). Show nested quote + I was just doing some reading, I had a flash of brilliance as I slept and remembered thinking that Fuba played a lot better than this when I last played with him. Looking back at my history I finally found the game he was in with me, NMM XXIII, in that game (both iterations of it, one in which he was scum and the other he was town) he played an active and interested game. He says now that there are always people defending him based on his scummy meta but I don't find that to be accurate. In NMM XXIII he did not appear scummy and played as if he cared. His behavior this game has been totally different and anti-town, while I don't know if Kush, Draz or Release can play a better game I am confidant that Fuba can. I was planning on putting a pressure vote on him to post his reads when I last posted but edited it out before I posted becasue I didn't feel that there was a real case on him. Now that I have looked back at him I am placing a real vote, no pressure intended, just looking at scum. That was my very first game, and I was genuinely more excited and able to participate than I am now. If anyone is going to look into NMM XXIII, keep in mind that the first half of my filter is scum mkfuba, and the second half is town mkfuba. And I didn't mean to imply that I had people defending me all the time, I simply meant that there were always people there that understood my meta and would be able to explain that I am wishy washy in all of my games (possibly excluding that one, I don't exactly remember). If someone would have called me out as wishy-washy, there would be marv, or hapa, or even blazinghand once to point out that I regularly play this way. In this game, I had to do it myself because I don't think anyone else would do it for me. And how often do you implicitly trust someone when they talk about their own scummy meta after being called out as scum? Not very often. For that reason, I explicitly stated how I felt and what was going on throughout the entire game. Show nested quote + On November 02 2012 02:59 mkfuba07 wrote: Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up. About Release: I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today. As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim. ##Vote Muso This is on page 11, where both Acro and Muso had claimed but well before we knew that either had fake claimed. What we see is that Fub is voting based on the fake claim of muso. As was everyone, note though that his reason is completely comprised of that one facet of muso's play. On November 02 2012 10:50 mkfuba07 wrote: On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote: Okay. I take full responsibility for this situation. Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault. 1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following: 1. this is a suicide play as scum 2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams, Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you. I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla. 2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now. 1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal? 2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim. I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town... ##Unvote Muso I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later. And now that it is confirmed that Muso fake claimed (the reason that Fuba voted him) Fuba unvotes him. There is literally no reason for town to change their read at this point, nothing about the situation has changed in Fuba's mind. Muso had fake claimed when Fuba first posted and he had Fake claimed when Fuba next posted, how did this change from a scum read to a town read? And, to the sentence I highlighted we see that Fuba has left himself totally open to vote switch back onto Muso to make this mislynch happen. Don't tell me what has or has not changed in my mind. You have no idea what kind of shit goes on in here. My mind changes between the time it takes to hit "enter" and the screen to refresh after I've posted. I may have mentioned that it takes me an eternity to read, analyze, and write up posts before. If I haven't, let this be the post that I can point back to in future games and say, "Yes, I have said that. It is at least part of how I play as town." The post you quoted probably took me at least 45 minutes to write. Over that time, I came to a few conclusions. When I say I talk myself in circles all the time, this is one example. I feel that the red numbering and skeptical manner in which I ask the questions indicate that I wasn't inclined to believe him. By the end of that 45 minutes, however, I had the time to think about it. As you bolded, I did see more potential scum motivation, but his explanation fit within the bounds of town reasoning. Sure, not typical TL reasoning, but from it I was ever-so-slightly leaning town on him. As for "leaving myself totally open to switch back onto Muso to make a mislynch happen", anyone who doesn't say that someone is 100% scum or town is open to switch on and off of them. Either way, that is where I stood. Show nested quote + On November 03 2012 06:01 mkfuba07 wrote: What if Drazak is lying about his name now that you've made it clear that you think all VTs have non-character names? I'm TNT. See, I can do it too. + Show Spoiler + Yes, this is a lie. On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote: Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak. I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Muso Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba... Your flavour theory is bunk and I am showing how bunk it is by saying that I am town. No, wait, I take it back, the lynch is close, haha lols totally swayed by it. Also don't mind how scummy I look, I always look scummy d1. ...sure. I implicitly state that I was lying in that post. If someone was swayed into thinking I was town because I wrote a fake name in bolded green text then that's something I won't apologize for. I really wouldn't expect that statement to sway anyone. I wanted to see if kush was really serious about his flavor theory. I know that that kind of analysis would lead to scum gaining more information than town, so I wanted to stop him from going much further (what better way for sk to get scum to shoot all the blues than to point out all the VTs in the thread and point scum in their direction?). That being said, I had reason to believe that he might have been on to something. My reason for switching off of Draz wasn't exclusively the flavor thing. It was his manner of posting at the time. As for me looking scummy D1: this game I was scummy enough to be shot D1, this post and this post speak to my wishi-washiness and adherence to my "feelings" while playing, particularly around the D1 lynch. Those are the main games that I think about when I consider my meta, probably because they're more recent than my newbie games and they're games against people that are more experienced than me, which always makes me edgy. Show nested quote + Fuba follows this up with an out for the rest of the day until the lynch On November 03 2012 06:32 mkfuba07 wrote: Also, I'm heading to a meeting now. I may be able to get on for 10 minutes or so before the lynch, but don't count on that too much. I don't even see how that's scummy. I told you a fact. If you want more information, I had a meeting at 5, it was 4:30, it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk there, I don't have the ID to access the internet in that location and would have to borrow a friend's, and it takes my laptop like 10 minutes to boot up because it's old and I don't take care of it. Believe me, I have plenty more "outs" I could have given myself, but instead I've at least tried to play as much as I could. Is it my best play? Absolutely not. Somehow I was better as a newbie than I have been in any of my other games. It could be my worst game, since there's no vig to shoot me. But it's still town me. Show nested quote + and after that gives a town read on a player who is under a lot of pressure and could easily be a vig shot that night (me), if you assume that I am town this looks weird. While I think that I have been playing townie the most vocal players in this game disagree. I have a hard time seeing fuba having his own very different read when he jumped into this game late (see his first post) and had to leave well before lynch (see the last post I quoted). He also manages to give a very light town read on prp's play in the same place he gives me a by before jumping thread. On November 03 2012 06:33 mkfuba07 wrote: On November 03 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote: On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote: Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak. I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched. ##Unvote ##Vote Muso Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba... Why not promethelax? I actually have town vibes from Prome. I also never felt too convinced of prplhz's scumminess. Really gotta go now~ I don't get how anyone did not see the scummyness in prp's play. As Marv said, in Your Clothes Give Them to Me, prp always seems scummy d1. Sorry I have a single thought independent of Acro. In almost all other matters I feel like I'm sheeping him, which is something I typically do with experienced players that I believe to be town (usually marv or hapa). I didn't find you scummy, so I didn't vote for you. You think that scum fuba was giving a town read on a townie so that when he flipped town he would look like a townie too? That would gain me nothing, and you know it. This entire point is irrelevant. Oh, and I gave a null read to prplhz. Show nested quote + Next we get Fuba's return to thread: On November 04 2012 22:01 mkfuba07 wrote: Hi all. I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD guys, I'm a newb, I'm bad, help me. Giving himself excuses and outs. This whole filter is scummy. After all this Fuba posts a whishy washy list in which everyone is called slightly town or he has a town read on, now though he agrees with Thrawn about Release. Remember when Fuba found Draz scummy enough to unvote Muso and vote draz? Yeah, neither does Fuba he hasn't managed to address his read on Draz again this cycle. Fuba is scum. Just stating facts, trying to get back into the game as soon as possible. I don't know how to just jump back into the game. I usually do it by asking a question, but then people later say, "After all of this discussion, this is all he had to say?!? A-ha! We've found ourselves some scum!" This time I decided to just ask what you guys wanted me to talk about. And sometimes excuses are legitimate. My friends needed a caster/streamer, and I was the only one available (it went awfully, btw). And the "wishy washy list" is a list of facts as I saw them. I had a town read on both you and Acro, but everyone's disagreeing about that so I went back and took another look (unfortunately inconclusive, but I can't do anything about that). And thrawn and kush were basically confirmed town, though it later occurred to me that there's a godfather and possibly an innocent sk, and also that I feel either of those roles could fit kush perfectly this game. And I didn't forget Draz. I asked him a question, and he returned to the thread while I was asleep. Not that actually pushing my scumreads is part of my meta either. I planned on doing that this game, but how do you pressure someone who's not here to respond to you? Show nested quote + False, false, and false (though the third point is consistent with my town meta).TL:DR Fuba gives himself outs so that he doesn't have to post reads, unvotes Muso for the same reason he voted Muso and drops his scum read on Draz without any of his problems with Draz being addressed. Mkfuba is Scum and I will be voting for and pushing him today. Acro, since you are the only other active player I'd love your input (though I'm still not convinced that you are town). What you have is a case against town Fuba who has far less time on his hands than he was expecting, in a game where nothing has gone the way it has in the past. And while lynching me may not be a loss for town from a contribution standpoint, it's a wasted lynch, and I'll just be added to the list with Mattchew and Zealos. I have one question for you: As all of your experience with me is based around my first game of mafia ever, you have the unique perspective of having equally experienced my town AND scum games. Do I feel like I'm playing like I did in either of them? This post is surprisingly useless: ) Meta stuff ) Personal rant and excuses for wishy washiness ) Partially caused by Prome if Prome took the TNT post seriously, but more excuses really. Flavor theory opposition i can agree with. ) Prome's fault. IRL stuff should be ignored unless looking for BC or something extremely urgent ) More excuses and some OMGUS in response to Prome's omgus ) Excuses ) Excuses | ||
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Excuses and a lack of strong stances/specific reasoning | ||
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The motivation he has is to establish himself as someone who can do whatever he wants without having to be questioned: Something unusual? "part of my meta" A suspicious change? "insert an excuse here" (e.g. "I'm always like this") Essentially, he is establishing himself to do something (that could potentially be scummy) and choose to sheep straight after without having to be question. I pretty much said the same thing twice. | ||
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On November 06 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote: I can't get anything in mafia done in five minutes, lol. kush, you understand me so well it makes it hard to keep calling you an evil godfather or sk <3 I definitely don't want a no-lynch. Town only has so many opportunities to kill scum, and without a vig, or possibly a vig who saved his shot and is aiming at me tonight, I don't think no-lynching is the best call. Draz is now second on my scumlist, and his participation since returning hasn't changed my view on him. I maintain that I would be more than willing to vote for kush, as his play this game seems very conducive to an SK playstyle imo. The pesky green check is getting in the way, though. Since a kush lynch is pretty impossible at this moment, and most people have shown an aversion to lynching drazak today, I'm going to place my vote on hopeless1der. I was more convinced of his scumminess than towniness by Acro's case. Particularly the scummy mindset portion. My strongest opposition for a hope lynch is that drazak is also voting for him, but his wasn't a particularly strong case. I think hopeless has a stronger possibility of flipping scum than town. ##Vote hopeless1der I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from Prome, but other people have a point in that today hasn't been as convincing of his towniness as D1 most certainly was. Conveniently takes a stance when it's improbable to change the lynch. This isn't an excuse, but really, it is. "I think hopeless has a stronger possibility of flipping scum than town" does not coincide with his previous reasoning that there was really no other option. Giving two different reasons for one action in only so much time: i see this as a lack of a train of thought, and therefore scummy. Here the motivation is to establish himself as a townie without really having to do anything substantive. What i mean is that he doesn't hold himself particularly accountable to anything except for supporting one of his many suspects. If i see some more pressure against Kush later, than the last statement is mitigated somewhat. On November 06 2012 06:33 mkfuba07 wrote: Oh, to avoid a no-lynch I will sheep my top town read: Acro. I'd rather not lynch him, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today. Another reason. 3 reasons for one action that was supposedly made for 1. I see a motivation in that he wants to avoid being questioned for his vote. On November 06 2012 06:34 mkfuba07 wrote: EBWOP: I'd rather not lynch Prome today, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today. in-post edit: I also think the wide array of votes at the moment could indicate scum trying to spread out the vote. That is another reason that I am willing to vote Prome. Current list of want to lynch targets: kush, Draz, Hope, and prome. Mention 4 in less than 10 minutes. On November 06 2012 06:41 mkfuba07 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 06 2012 06:40 thrawn2112 wrote: On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote: I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum ( uh what do you guys think about lynching drazak I'm for it. ##Unvote ##Vote drazak Insta-sheep. On November 06 2012 06:56 mkfuba07 wrote: Either people stop pointing out that I haven't responded to things quickly enough, or I keep telling everyone exactly why I take so long to write anything. One explains the other. There's no way around it. Stop telling me to stop telling the truth. Thanks. sticking to his excuses. There is a plausibility when he has stuck this long, but in a community of distrust, there's really no trusting anyone so I see this as yet another excuse. On November 06 2012 08:54 mkfuba07 wrote: I don't know why, but something about draz is making me think he's actually town. Doesn't it seem like a really stupid move to pull that shit after having your vote parked on him all day? Like, I feel like his plan as scum would have been to bus hope, so why would he pull that shit right around the deadline? It would have been his whole purpose behind voting hope in the first place? Does that make sense? A vague question, seems like bait. I see this as a post intended to get town talking about why Drazak did such a (i still think it's an incredibly meaningless and non-alignment-telling) thing instead of looking for scum and the rest of Draz's filter. Conclusions: About 5 times shorter than the first page. Excuses still extant. Doesn't look particularly wishy-washy at first but if you see that he gave himself 4 people on whom to put pressure, then you can see that ofc it's not going to look that way when it is indeed wishy-washy. This page, it seemed as though he realized how bad he looked day 1 and tried to disguise himself. Day1 trying to establish town through meta. Day2 trying to establish as town through conveniently townie-looking actions. I'll iterate this again: Here the motivation is to establish himself as a townie without really having to do anything substantive. What i mean is that he doesn't hold himself particularly accountable to anything except for supporting one of his many suspects. I'll be hittign the hay pretty soon. P3 and some of other people's filter will come tomorrow. | ||
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On November 14 2012 02:07 kushm4sta wrote: Someone said "Release, stop wasting our time and surrender." This is not the response of town. It's the response of a scum with a never give up attitude. Why would town be "sorry"? Your sarcasm detector has failed you. | ||
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Fuba is looking bad, but your are looking like draz. I'm up for a second godfather/sk if this doesn't improve. | ||
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On November 14 2012 05:24 Promethelax wrote: No way is there another SK, not enough kills. Release, I enjoyed your Fuba monstrosity. Are you going to do something similar on other payers? I think I probably won't do too much more of Fuba's filter. There are a few things about Thrawn that need to be added, and a few things about DP's case with which i disagree. I am pretty much doing this while assuming that no one is a confirmed town, so I have a feeling that Kush may have been SK who never killed (who knows really?) Next big thing will probably be you or DP. Probably DP because i have interacted with him far less than i have, you. And I'm thinking after that, if i have time, a check on Draz's and Hope's filter couldn't hurt. | ||
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On November 12 2012 17:27 thrawn2112 wrote: mmm i don't think i like a release lynch. i'm having the same issues with it now as I did before.. he's way too open with his thought processes for me to think he;'s scum followed by On November 13 2012 13:43 thrawn2112 wrote: My thoughts haven't changed much. Prom = confirmed town ofc, I also think that kush and dp are town. I was wary of fuba but release has been on my radar all game, and his new name claim stuff is hard to believe. He said he originally claimed something else in order to silence the vt flavor discussion... I don't see how claiming a name that doesn't fit with the theory would make people talk less about the theory. ##Vote: Release Before a vote, considering the previous statement, I would have expected a "what does release think about [name]" My thought process has exonerated me once in Thrawn's eyes. But he doesn't give it a chance again. I have a feeling he is satisfied with my thrawn is town and hopes to keep it that way. Motivation behind this is to silence me from commenting on him and call it OMGUS if i do it in response to the vote. ____________________________________________________________________ On November 11 2012 05:25 thrawn2112 wrote: whatever, idgaf about this setup stuff. too many assumptions and too much missing info. plus it's no fun talking to myself about it Setup unimportant. Keep this in mind. On November 11 2012 05:47 thrawn2112 wrote: Risk was roleblocked last night, and one person died. That means that either risk is scum, risk is sk, or risk is town and the sk didn't shoot or was roleblocked by somebody else. prom was the only other person roleblocked, but because he was roleblocked N1 that means he can't be the sk. so that leaves 3 options: scum risk, sk risk, town risk along with an sk who didn't shoot during N3. So who is the SK? It can't be dp or fuba, otherwise they lied about roleblocking kush/prom N2 and that would mean that kush/prom also lied about getting roleblocked. I'm not sk. Prom isn't sk because he was roleblocked N1. SK LIST risk kush release If I had to guess at those.... kush or release as sk makes WAY more sense than risk. Kush has been bluehunting all game, and release has been acting like he's got something to hide. Out of the only 3 players who could possibly be sk, risk makes the least sense. So now I'm down to two options.... scum risk or town risk with an sk who didn't make a kill N3. I'm thinking sum risk. BTW, If there's a town vig reading this then FUCK YOU Right now, here is what I think happened. Risk is the last scum and was roleblocked N3. Kush is the sk and took out acro N3. chooses kush over me as the not-a-town target On November 11 2012 06:06 thrawn2112 wrote: here's clarification in case that was hard to follow: Risk was roleblocked. That leaves only three options. Risk is scum and the sk killed acro Risk is sk and scum killed acro Risk is town and sk didn't kill for whatever reason (by choice or roleblock) Only risk/release/kush can possibly be sk. + Show Spoiler [sk list] + So who is the SK? It can't be dp or fuba, otherwise they lied about roleblocking kush/prom N2 and that would mean that kush/prom also lied about getting roleblocked. I'm not sk. Prom isn't sk because he was roleblocked N1. SK LIST risk kush release Risk is scum and the sk killed acro Risk is town and sk didn't kill for whatever reason (by choice or roleblock) The story of who roleblocked who from N3 matches up. Because I think that the sk is either release OR kush, and neither of them got roleblocked during N3, then I think that the sk did in fact kill acro. Out of the three options I listed at the start of this post, there is only one left: Risk is scum and the sk killed acro. What I think = Risk is scum and kush killed acro. essentially the same (kush is not-town instead of a release is not-town) On November 11 2012 06:27 thrawn2112 wrote: f dis setup one more setup unimportant On November 11 2012 11:46 thrawn2112 wrote: yeah i'd like to know as well @risk your best bet is to make a case on someone that doesn't include setup speculation. or if it does include setup speculation it better be a damning case. one more setup unimportant On November 12 2012 05:02 thrawn2112 wrote: so the thing that most people think makes kush the sk was the vt hunting... but that whole flavor theory was based off the fact that kush was comparing claimed vt flavor names against his "own." so if we collectively decide that shooting for sk is a better option than lynching risk then I might be persuaded to vote for release. readying himself to vote for me. Wishy-washy without real contribution Already proved this was based on faulty reasoning (fake-claims) On November 12 2012 15:11 thrawn2112 wrote: acro roleblocked risk, so acro's death came from mafia kp. prom was roleblocked, so he's not mafia. there is no way in all of fuck that I'm going to vote for prom. I really think darthpunk is town but I'll reevaluate that read between now and the deadline. kush can only be mafia if there are 2 godfathers and a goon in a setup with a million blue roleblockers. that leaves me with... release fuba hmm... darthpunk, why did you jail prom instead of acro n3? Kush is exonerated based on setup specualtion after 3 posts about the uselessness of setup speculation. Inconsistency. | ||
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When he says "what do you think about lynching draz/release" i have a feeling it is semi-obvious bait. Editbeforepost: However, after writing that, i have a feeling that it is supposed to look like semi-obvious bait when it is actually a stance and an attempt to start a bandwagon. I'm wifoming myself into oblivion now. | ||
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On November 13 2012 08:03 mkfuba07 wrote: So... lynch Release? On November 13 2012 08:04 mkfuba07 wrote: ##Vote Release On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. On November 14 2012 12:06 mkfuba07 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read. I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent. Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote? I see nothing wrong with my post. It explains my reasoning. His cases had little impact on my thoughts of him. How is my claim the hardest to accept? My claim leaves an indication that something has happened. I said I jailed prome, and prome was roleblocked and didn't die, which I maintain was a likelihood N2. This is supported by the fact that there were 0 deaths. Your claim is impossible to verify at all. You crumbed a role that you could fakeclaim as scum with no possible downside unless you claim the bulletproof sk is town, and which leaves no evidence that anyone did anything. If I was scum roleblocker, why would I claim 1-shot jailer? It doesn't make any sense. Yours is the easiest fakeclaim. You say there could be any number of reasons for scum me to know what the SK was doing N2? Please name one. And breadcrumbs are non-indicative of alignment. Anyone can crumb anything. If I was scum planning on fakeclaiming, I'm pretty sure I'd be MORE likely to have a well-written crumb. Anyway, I trust prome, and I trust DP. If the scum wasn't release, it would have to be thrawn. I'm up for a lynch on either. The order is irrelevant to me. ##Unvote ##Vote thrawn2112 This may be slightly motivated by a need to be right when I called thrawn scum N2. At first i saw this as an inconsistency(scum --nochange-->null?) but upon further inspection, I see it as poor word followed by clarification (scum --(case=null)nochange--> still scum). However: On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read. I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent. Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote? This I immediately recognized as a desperate attempt to capitalize on something rather insignificant: The post is far to unclear as to whether the null refers to me or the case i made (it was actually the case) and Thrawn automatically makes it out to be me, something that would imply the guilt of Fuba without giving fuba a chance to clarify(which he did in the next post) and you immediately switch to something else to implicate fuba. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:46 Promethelax wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 12:42 thrawn2112 wrote: dont worry everyone have no fear, i shall find out which of you voting for me is the asshole It is me, the asshole is always me. The "me" should be an "I." Apparently assholes aren't good at using grammar. | ||
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This pretty much matches exactly what a gods town atmosphere should be. The shift was very quick and forceful: result of astrong case no doubt. I feel that this happened very reasonably considering everyone is online and actually discussing it. And I feel that it has caused thrawn to fall off his game and slip. | ||
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Straight up question for clarification | ||
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On November 14 2012 13:22 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 13:03 Release wrote: Well prome, you have basically done what you promised to do(force town to be active and actually get things done). This pretty much matches exactly what a gods town atmosphere should be. The shift was very quick and forceful: result of astrong case no doubt. I feel that this happened very reasonably considering everyone is online and actually discussing it. And I feel that it has caused thrawn to fall off his game and slip. how did you decide which of me/fuba to vote for? you are acting extremely sure that i'm scum, but when i read the two of those cases i don't really see anything suggesting which read you're most interested in pursuing or why Well if you see my recent long post, clearly, i chose you. He made an innocuous remark and you pounce. He clarifies, and you pounce on something else. | ||
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I didn't get too far but with the possibility of rb me: Lynch thrawn --> RB me --> live happily ever after if no shot? or RB someone else (no one shot probably) --> lynch me --> RB prom --> DP dies --> kush and fuba point fingers and prom is the ultimate decider of the game. | ||
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##vote: thrawn | ||
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On November 12 2012 17:27 thrawn2112 wrote: mmm i don't think i like a release lynch. i'm having the same issues with it now as I did before.. he's way too open with his thought processes for me to think he;'s scum 2 times "my thought process is too open" On November 13 2012 13:43 thrawn2112 wrote: My thoughts haven't changed much. Prom = confirmed town ofc, I also think that kush and dp are town. I was wary of fuba but release has been on my radar all game, and his new name claim stuff is hard to believe. He said he originally claimed something else in order to silence the vt flavor discussion... I don't see how claiming a name that doesn't fit with the theory would make people talk less about the theory. ##Vote: Release Sooo... on radar --shows open thought process--> no vote and still on radar and on radar --brings up flavor--> votes me for flavor (i see a need to justify himself when all others were very content to simply agree and bandwagon) BUT On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read. I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent. Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote? 3rd open thought process and dubious of my scumminess. Says fuba is scummy and keeps his vote on me. Explain that? I'm sure you can show us an open thought process too. | ||
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If i get voted, you claim i was scum. If i don't, the roadblock worked. Lunch out. | ||
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On November 15 2012 06:54 kushm4sta wrote: What I don't get about this game is why almost every fucking town had to LIE about their role?? Release I don't get why you would LIE just to get me to stop talking about flavor.. that doesn't seem realistic. If thrawn flips town, my next suspect is release. I have 5 minutes: Because you continually talked about flavor even after you said you would stop and i said that i would take any more flavor from you as a scum claim. | ||
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I'm out | ||
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I'll stick with Fuba and his excuses. | ||
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As long as the flavor theory held, you would have a tenable reason to continue talking about it. So i claimed something that i believed broke the flavor theory, and you therefore, were supposed to have no reason to continue to talk about it. | ||
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PDNSAAYAANIYDKWIATA | ||
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1) I don't have to be confirmed town. I'll never be confirmed town until i flip. But if your far-fetched theory (based on wbg's comment) had some reason to be doubted, i thought you and others would stop talking about it. 2) because other people werent ignoring them | ||
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Any excuse i make will be frowned upon. | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:51 DarthPunk wrote: Sorry for being absent. I was just in the most epic hour of mafia ever. Release you stopped caring about cases. You were pushing FUBA and then you sheeped the thrawn case and stopped contributing all together. What made you change your mind to thinking thrawn was scummier than Fuba? remember that post made by fuba about my case = null but I'm still scum(last part implied and clarified later)? Thrawn jumped on that way too hard, without giving fuba a chance to clarify. | ||
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On November 14 2012 12:38 Release wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 08:03 mkfuba07 wrote: So... lynch Release? On November 13 2012 08:04 mkfuba07 wrote: ##Vote Release On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. On November 14 2012 12:06 mkfuba07 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read. I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent. Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote? I see nothing wrong with my post. It explains my reasoning. His cases had little impact on my thoughts of him. How is my claim the hardest to accept? My claim leaves an indication that something has happened. I said I jailed prome, and prome was roleblocked and didn't die, which I maintain was a likelihood N2. This is supported by the fact that there were 0 deaths. Your claim is impossible to verify at all. You crumbed a role that you could fakeclaim as scum with no possible downside unless you claim the bulletproof sk is town, and which leaves no evidence that anyone did anything. If I was scum roleblocker, why would I claim 1-shot jailer? It doesn't make any sense. Yours is the easiest fakeclaim. You say there could be any number of reasons for scum me to know what the SK was doing N2? Please name one. And breadcrumbs are non-indicative of alignment. Anyone can crumb anything. If I was scum planning on fakeclaiming, I'm pretty sure I'd be MORE likely to have a well-written crumb. Anyway, I trust prome, and I trust DP. If the scum wasn't release, it would have to be thrawn. I'm up for a lynch on either. The order is irrelevant to me. ##Unvote ##Vote thrawn2112 This may be slightly motivated by a need to be right when I called thrawn scum N2. At first i saw this as an inconsistency(scum --nochange-->null?) but upon further inspection, I see it as poor word followed by clarification (scum --(case=null)nochange--> still scum). However: On November 14 2012 11:32 thrawn2112 wrote: i think I want to lynch mkfuba. Every point in this game where I've thought about lynching release, I always hit a roadblock because he is extremely open with his thought process and it's be really difficult to keep that up as scum Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 11:01 mkfuba07 wrote: I'm still going through thrawn's filter (sorry I'm so slow, I'm not even sure I'll be adding much to what DP said), but I'm not sure what to think from Release's big cases. He hasn't given up despite the fact that we've made it clear that we're lynching him, which initially made me inch back towards town. The problem is that scum would probably do that as well. The situation feels similar to when I switched off of drazak earlier this game. The fact that I know his entire case against me is incorrect doesn't make me sway either way, as I think it could be made by town or scum. I guess a summary would be... initially townish, but in the end null. This is en extremely wish washy post... all I really get from it is that you think release might be a null read. I'm really doubting the high number of blues we have, and on top of what I've already said before about fuba, his claim is the hardest to accept. He only claimed a role that makes him responsible for 1 roleblock, and there could be any number of reasons why a scum fuba would have known that it would be a safe claim to make. The breadcrumb was basically non existent. Also, wtf kush I thought you thought I was town all game long... this is how easily you're willing to switch your vote? This I immediately recognized as a desperate attempt to capitalize on something rather insignificant: The post is far to unclear as to whether the null refers to me or the case i made (it was actually the case) and Thrawn automatically makes it out to be me, something that would imply the guilt of Fuba without giving fuba a chance to clarify(which he did in the next post) and you immediately switch to something else to implicate fuba. here | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:58 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 11:55 Release wrote: On November 15 2012 11:51 DarthPunk wrote: Sorry for being absent. I was just in the most epic hour of mafia ever. Release you stopped caring about cases. You were pushing FUBA and then you sheeped the thrawn case and stopped contributing all together. What made you change your mind to thinking thrawn was scummier than Fuba? remember that post made by fuba about my case = null but I'm still scum(last part implied and clarified later)? Thrawn jumped on that way too hard, without giving fuba a chance to clarify. So how does thrawns flip do to your read on Fuba? Who is the last scum if you are town? To be honest this is all shit you should be doing on your own if you were town. Why are you holding me accountable and not Kush? Fuba is still full of excuses. The post to which thrawn responded is an excuse for not having any opinions. But right now, I am absolutely feeling that Kush is the most likely scum. He was so adamant about doing nothing during the day and sheeping whenever possible. And doing nothing after the vote switched. Silencing discussion. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + number of mention in Drazak's filter. ima green the actives (not confirmed town i believe) kush - 15 release - 3 prom - 12 dp - 5 hope - 10 matt - 1 thrawn - 2 acro - 7 fuba - 2 risk - 9 zealos - 2 muso - 9 It's pretty clear (or it should be) that hope and draz basically threw their lives away and trusted that their last (1/2) scum buddy would win. I am almost certain that this was a plan devised in response to the green-check on Kush, the godfather. With the greencheck and the death of another godfather, Kush is almost certain scum, which buys him a free ticket to the end-game, giving drazak the chance to tap out as well. | ||
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So, this meta is excellent for a scum to appear towny. None other than Hope confirms that Kush has this type of meta. A quick check over hope's filter shows again, that Kush has the most interactions (bar Prom, but everyone has had tons with prom). | ||
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Especially for me, because almost every time i have encountered meta, it has proven to be largely useless. (thanks hapa). i'll spend the next 40 minutes trying a kush case. | ||
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On November 01 2012 08:08 kushm4sta wrote: Yeah millers please claim except DO NOT say your role's name. I think we can use name claims for evidence in our first lynch. Like ask the person who we are about to lynch what their role name is, then we have a mass role claim after our L-1 says his name. If it matches the theme of ours, we know they might be town (depending on how broad of a theme the names are) What do people think of this plan? Do you understand it and think it's a good idea? flavor and blue-hunting begins. On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote: EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @release Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? more blue-hunting after saying On November 01 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote: To the people saying millers shouldn't claim: You are wrong. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 08:22 drazak wrote: I don't think they need to claim early D1, it gives mafia someone NOT to lynch as the miller doesn't have a useful role. If I were scum I would be pretty happy with nk confirmed town. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 08:25 thrawn2112 wrote: If a miller claims D1 I don't even know what my thought process would be for deciding if I believe them or not, so I'm hesitatingly saying that I disagree with the idea That is what is so good about the miller claim. It's confirmed by the second miller. Scum can never claim miller unless one of the millers is already dead. _____ OK maybe mass claim is a bad idea because of blues.. I wasn't thinking that. How about they name claim anyway though and we can all judge the validity of their name claim without revealing ours. _______________________________________________________ On November 01 2012 09:35 kushm4sta wrote: [/i]Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 09:09 Zealos wrote: On November 01 2012 09:07 thrawn2112 wrote: release, you are looking scummy. what was kush "deceitful" about? your accusation against him is spin-city thinking prplhz meant mason when he said miller is what kush did, i even did it to for a while... i don't see how it even comes close to [i[being deceitful I highly doubt a mafia would get so aggressive right off the bat imo. Just seems like dumb reasoning, is all. Aggression is only a towntell if you have meta to back it up. I have seen scum be very aggressive early. I also want to hear more from release about why he thinks my plan was scummy. (also yeah maybe mason claim is dumb now that I think about it more. I can see pros and cons to it.) 1) begins to say meta is important 2) artificially supports his meta by making his derp conspicuous On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:30 Release wrote: On November 01 2012 10:17 thrawn2112 wrote: On November 01 2012 10:09 Release wrote: I highly doubt that you "mixed up" their names because things like that tend to get checked, which leads me to believe you said such things on purpose. and I highly doubt you would actually think this I was confused about whom we wanted to claim and which each were. So i checked the OP and the thing Hope posted and asked for clarification. Kush posted things based on a misunderstanding and i don't understand why he would not check the OP or ask for clarification. I mean, in Hope's post-quote, there was clearly a miller AND a mason. So it appears that Kush is setting himself up for a defense ( as I have said), and overeager to contribute. I guess you have never played with me before. Most of the time I don't think before I post and I'm quite capable of derps as town. About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? That does not sound like a realistic scumplan! calls on meta to support and conveniently, hope supports him. From these early posts, i see someone with an irrational wish to free himself of any suspicion, and a conscious decision to derp, which causes confusion and delays proper discussion about lynch (unless we had talked about lynching him, which ofc his derps were designed to prevent such a thing. -- On November 01 2012 11:26 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:50 thrawn2112 wrote: kush you think release is scum or town? If I had to vote right now I would vote him if that answers your question. @release Please clarify this while it's still fresh in your mind. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote: About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? Am I correct in describing your suspicion this way? Completely equivocates in response to an explicit question. - wishy-washiness + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 19:22 kushm4sta wrote: Before you were.talking about how people don't post without thinking in mafia. Show nested quote + On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote: Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted. Muso... So you think this is a fake claim? Think about how easy it would be to falsify a fake mason claim. falsify a fake mason claim by forcing the other mason pairs to claim? more blue-hunting. On November 02 2012 00:02 kushm4sta wrote: my thought on release is that it's completely possible he is town even though his actions look fishy. It's pretty hard to tell with new players. I really don't understand how Matt can be so certain about release's alignment this early. wishy-washy again and questions someone with a strong stance (when he doesn't have a strong stance himself) On November 02 2012 07:50 kushm4sta wrote: I'm pretty sure DP is the only one left who hasn't commented on muso's claim. So it's either DP is muso's mason partner or muso is the worst scum ever. Maybe he fake claimed because he was confused about what mason did? (I actually don't know what either a mason or a miller are IRL. There should be more obvious, more differentiated role names IMO) So I will consider anyone talking about muso, or encryption, or the real scum claim, or anything other than looking for scum in the remaining 12 people, unhelpful and therefore suspicious. artificially strong stance that intends to shut down discussion Rest of day 1 is similar. (he takes a stance on drazak, but really, DP(?) and I had already talked about drazak and reasonable suspicion had already been cast. What i see from these posts is someone who refuses to take a strong stance when there is doubt surrounding a person, but is willing to have so strong a stance when there is suspicion on a townie that he is willing to shut down discussion. There is a lack of an appropriate level of strength in his stance (lacking a focussed train of thought) and lots of flavor for the rest of day 1 On November 04 2012 02:49 kushm4sta wrote: Prome already said his name does not fit my flavor theory. Prome please claim, since you already admitted to being a vt. If that is a character name I will stfu about flavor theory forever. Also why did you reveal it now and not during d1? ~~ What is the difference between risk town and risk scum? Does anyone know? Same question for mattchew. ~~ 3 people want to lynch me now! Zealos, acro, thrawn. Anyone else? Are there any questions you want me to answer? The cases are quite spread out so it's a little hard to respond to everything. Summary of the case against me: 1 over reliance on flavor theory I have been pretty obsessed with it sorry. 2 blue hunting I just wanted more evidence for my theory. I only ever advocated 1 vt claiming their name. Also I thought mason should claim in the beginning but changed my mind about it. (The reason I actually made the case for mason claiming is I read in Sandroba's filter from a game a long something he said about there being no downside to millers claiming. But I thought he were talking about the role that is actually masons. Then I see someone this game talking about millers claiming and that authoritative opinion is only enforced, so I assume millers claiming is a smart play.) ^ a lot of text about something pretty insignificant. 3 thrawn saying im off my meta Every game I try to improve and play better. I am being less emotional I think it's better play. (and also I've been hurt so many times in the past) 4 my "scumslip" I said "Why is town fake claiming?" 2 people fakeclaimed mason. I doubt both of them are mafia. So I can say with almost a certainty that town is fakeclaiming because at least one of them is town. Flavor theory outweighs letting the scum see blues? No no no no and more meta to remind us in case we forgot, ofc, now the meta is changing. This is now his panacea for any behavior: match town meta? OK town. doesnt? "I'm changing" bullshit. Complete paradox. On November 05 2012 09:02 kushm4sta wrote: I'm not liking prome. The case is weak imo. Lately there has been talk of him not scumhunting but I think that is just his style. Not liking release. Playing too scummy to be scum. I could get behind a fuba or hopeless lynch though. Consider fubas weak ass filter... inherent guilt talking about how indecisive he is. Also keep in mind he's not a newb like draz, release and he should know better. Too scummy to be scum? Hope and draz were also too scummy. But different stances. Lack of focus/train of thought. "could" but won't if they don't happen and sheep if they do. No stances really. Not liking, but prome is not declared scummy. Too weak of a stance when there is a lack of suspicion. reinforces the italics. Eh i'm running out of time. Important stuff was in italics. | ||
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I overstate scumminess. So what? I'm bad at this game. I see an overstatement of scumminess about a million times better than some piece of vacillation that shows no opinion at all. I brought up that vig claim myself after claiming VT. No one FOUND the claim. I didn't have to bring it up. I NEVER claimed vig. I said that the claim was what got me roleblocked (after asking acro, who rb'd me, whether he noticed any ONE post in particular) and apparently it didn't. Hope is the only person with whom i've played (maybe 1 with prome but i forget). He clearly supports meta and doesn't want to make his support of kush too conspicuous so he throws one in about me. That wasn't guilt. It was a wish to clarify what could EASILY be misinterpretted. out. | ||
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2) The scum is DP. Kush is far too unlikely. If kush is the GF, he is my girlfriend, not the godfather. 3) i have been thinking about this all day and realized one thing "claiming JK is risky as fuck when an SK is still around" is not completely true. I'm sure "GAOL" could be manipulated to represent roleblocker and none of us would have realized "keeping". | ||
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On November 16 2012 07:39 DarthPunk wrote: If I die. I would say listen to prom but you are all so good at that anyway . I doubt there are two godfathers therefore Kush is town. Prom is town. Night kill = lynch Release No night kill = Lynch fuba. This guy has been saying Fuba/Release Fuba/Release Fuba/Release Fuba/Release so many times. He manipulates the night actions and his RB (claimed jail) will never die. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:28 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 10:20 mkfuba07 wrote: GG Prome, and thanks kush (also, happy birthday!). Roleblock confirmed. Anyone else think the nk was strange? Yes. I should have died. scum don't shoot themselves. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 10:38 Release wrote: 1) we have not been endgamed. There is 1 scum left. 2) The scum is DP. Kush is far too unlikely. If kush is the GF, he is my girlfriend, not the godfather. 3) i have been thinking about this all day and realized one thing "claiming JK is risky as fuck when an SK is still around" is not completely true. I'm sure "GAOL" could be manipulated to represent roleblocker and none of us would have realized "keeping". And this is why I didn't die. If I had been shot we would have had three confirmed townies and release. GG If prom dies we have two confirmed Townies Myself and release. And the first thing Release does is push his lynch onto me. I claimed before the SK died. Every night I would have told people my jail until I died. If the SK ever killed the townie as fuck players I was Jailing each night I would have lost. AFTER bussing my two scum buddies Immediately. Also your story about Gaol being manipulated into roleblocker and not Jail-keeper is just grasping at straws. first time I'll mention it but ... I'm town. You can't have been shot because we would have 4 townies and a happy "town won" post. Pissing contest commence! | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:48 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 10:40 Release wrote: On November 16 2012 07:39 DarthPunk wrote: If I die. I would say listen to prom but you are all so good at that anyway . I doubt there are two godfathers therefore Kush is town. Prom is town. Night kill = lynch Release No night kill = Lynch fuba. This guy has been saying Fuba/Release Fuba/Release Fuba/Release Fuba/Release so many times. He manipulates the night actions and his RB (claimed jail) will never die. You have been role-blocked/ jailed twice. Each has a corresponding Lack of KP. What you are saying is that I have witheld KP twice throughout the game all in order to mislynch you now? When if those KP had been used the game would already be over? That seems ridiculous. but isn't. Why am i alive when it is MYLO? my death should have been sealed yesterday, but you posted that excellent case on Thrawn intending to get him lynched and maintain my supposed scumminess into MYLO. Game is sealed for you in that case. | ||
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On November 16 2012 10:51 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 10:48 Release wrote: On November 16 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote: On November 16 2012 10:38 Release wrote: 1) we have not been endgamed. There is 1 scum left. 2) The scum is DP. Kush is far too unlikely. If kush is the GF, he is my girlfriend, not the godfather. 3) i have been thinking about this all day and realized one thing "claiming JK is risky as fuck when an SK is still around" is not completely true. I'm sure "GAOL" could be manipulated to represent roleblocker and none of us would have realized "keeping". And this is why I didn't die. If I had been shot we would have had three confirmed townies and release. GG If prom dies we have two confirmed Townies Myself and release. And the first thing Release does is push his lynch onto me. I claimed before the SK died. Every night I would have told people my jail until I died. If the SK ever killed the townie as fuck players I was Jailing each night I would have lost. AFTER bussing my two scum buddies Immediately. Also your story about Gaol being manipulated into roleblocker and not Jail-keeper is just grasping at straws. first time I'll mention it but ... I'm town. You can't have been shot because we would have 4 townies and a happy "town won" post. Pissing contest commence! I am not going to get into this with you when you have no arguments and no case. I expect arguing with you until deadline while you desperately find the one mislynch you need is going to be tiresome. Oh well. So. The past few days when you should have been lynched. You were sure Thrawn, Then Fuba, then Thrawn then Kush then ME were scum. Seems like you didn't give a fuck about who you lynched as long as it wasn't you. You just wanted to get a mislynch on whoever you could. if you really believed that, you would not have voted for thrawn yesterday. I think you didn't recognize but Thrawn's death was the best thing (second only to your's) because it basically confirmed kush as town. Fuba is confirmed town now too. Me and you only. | ||
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"The night actions fit me perfectly" didn't they? They could also fit you. You didn't give a shit about night actions' fitting thrawn because he was not going to make it to MYLO. | ||
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So what? Nothing i can do about confirmed townies I mean you are the guy who immediately votes me and discounts the potential benefits of a nolynch. You are the one who has all this time parochially focussed on me and fuba. One of us turns green ... BAM the other is dead. GG. Yes. You manipulated 3 cycles ago to frame me. | ||
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Prome ♥♥♥ I love you ♥♥♥ that was supposed to be a | ||
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Why would i correct myself and call more attention to it? Since you're not talking to me, i'll answer it. The cigar was a humorous "guess i'll have to be complacement with focusing on Darth" and the brick is "I can't even if i tried" Why aren't you talking to me? We'll communicate eventually, although through a middle man. That will clutter the thread no doubt. | ||
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My reasoning for a DP lynch is that there is no reason for me to be alive today, when we are at a MYLO | ||
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But no. After the case on thrawn, you really didn't push for a lynch on me anymore. | ||
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Why are you focusing on me? This seems so important to you. | ||
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So much points to DP. Think about this: why would scum hold KP one night then suddenly use it the next? We all agreed that the scum cannot afford to have a confirmed town (thanks prome) going into a mylo. But DP was far too impatient. With the other game that he is in, and his desperation to vote me, he immediately caved in and killed to frame me. He was too impatient. It takes 3 to kill btw so a 2-2 always ends in nolynch. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [WBG + HIROPRO] + ##vote: thrawn | ||
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On November 16 2012 13:23 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 13:16 Release wrote: Kush, you cannot be serious (lolol). So much points to DP. Think about this: why would scum hold KP one night then suddenly use it the next? We all agreed that the scum cannot afford to have a confirmed town (thanks prome) going into a mylo. But DP was far too impatient. With the other game that he is in, and his desperation to vote me, he immediately caved in and killed to frame me. He was too impatient. It takes 3 to kill btw so a 2-2 always ends in nolynch. WTF are you talking about?[red] you were jailed twice and each time KP was lost. [red]Then you were not jailed 3/4 townies are confirmed and you keep me alive as the only mislynch that is possible in this game. You are right. Why on earth would I have held back 2 kp to frame you if I would have won by now if I hadn't By god you are full of shit lol Like you are semi trolling as well. I don't even... yeah you made sure of that yeah, but that could also apply equally to you. Yes you held back 2 kp, but you if you had used those, who knows how things would have turned out. DP = anti-town = scumbag Release = anti-undustedTunnel = dirtbag You'd rather play fun and games and chicken scratch dunk ferry drunk. | ||
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On November 16 2012 12:03 Release wrote: but yes to the everyone else is confirmed town so i focus on you. Why are you focusing on me? This seems so important to you. DP answer this | ||
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On November 16 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 13:47 Release wrote: On November 16 2012 12:03 Release wrote: but yes to the everyone else is confirmed town so i focus on you. Why are you focusing on me? This seems so important to you. DP answer this Isn't It obvious?? it's Because you are confirmed scum Why am i confirmed scum? | ||
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On November 16 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 13:53 Release wrote: On November 16 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: On November 16 2012 13:47 Release wrote: On November 16 2012 12:03 Release wrote: but yes to the everyone else is confirmed town so i focus on you. Why are you focusing on me? This seems so important to you. DP answer this Isn't It obvious?? it's Because you are confirmed scum Why am i confirmed scum? 1 Your General behavior all game 2 Your behavior recently calling every non confirmed town scummy to save your own skin. And shutting up when it is saved. 3 you have been jailed twice and each time corresponds with missing KP. 4 everyone else is confirmed town based on game mechanicsonly kush and fuba are 5 even if that were not the case you would still be the scummiest player. Wrong. I am scum because you are town. But you didn't say that. But I will. You are scum because I am town. | ||
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"Sigh that goes without saying. obviously. You are lying about being town. You are scum. It is incredibly obvious. Please just concede and stop wasting our time." - From Release to DP | ||
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Fuba, feel free to do whatever. I recommend you join our pissing contest. | ||
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What on earth are you doing? No one, except for DP, would have used the KP last night as scum. It is far far far too risky. Prome said it, EVERYONE agreed with it. Darth became impatient. He had another game. He wanted to get my lynch done asap. That's why he is responsible for the shot. Roses are Red Violets are Blue If we lose this game It's all due to You. Vote for DarthPunk It'll be the best decision of your life. | ||
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And I'll crap up the thread until someone starts listening to me. | ||
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You made the case on thrawn and actually voted for him. You were supposed to vote for me. Don't break my ♥ | ||
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On November 16 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 14:17 Release wrote: Kush, if you are indeed the second GodFather, you have won. Feel free to join our pissing contest. Fuba, feel free to do whatever. I recommend you join our pissing contest. Just concede for god's sake man. Fuba? Kush? want to concede? | ||
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The sun sets in the east something something something vote for darthpunk. Even setup speculation points to darthpunk at this stage in the game: scum more than likely have a roleblocker. That roleblocker is darthpunk. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + | ||
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how ridiculous it is for you to be scum but never the impossibility of such a thing. Therefore, with meticulous planning, i believe this is just one contingency of many for which you had planned. ♀♪♪♀ | ||
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Taaaaaaaalk. | ||
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Throw in a popcorn. This is boring. | ||
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On November 17 2012 03:35 wherebugsgo wrote: Just as a warning: If you put a vote into spoilers then there is a strong chance I will not see it/count it. that was intentional. When it actually matters i'll do it correctly. You guys are boring. | ||
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DP, Prome and Acro have had their fair share of being sheeped. I'll put this forward: Unvote, think for an hour, then revote. Why am i still alive during a MYLO when it is clear that I will almost certainly be lynched regardless of anything i or anyone else does? Why did Darth Punk actually vote for Thrawn when the agreement was to vote for me and hunt scum for the case that i flip green? It's a fucking brilliant plan. But i will not go down. | ||
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On November 17 2012 08:55 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 23:54 kushm4sta wrote: Also DP why you are being a dick to release? He's just playing to his win condition. no need to get snippy mate Am I being a dick? I guess I am always like that. you're allowed to be a dick in a pissing contest. | ||
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On November 17 2012 08:59 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 08:50 Release wrote: You guys need to stop sheeping for one second. DP, Prome and Acro have had their fair share of being sheeped. I'll put this forward: Unvote, think for an hour, then revote. Why am i still alive during a MYLO when it is clear that I will almost certainly be lynched regardless of anything i or anyone else does? Why did Darth Punk actually vote for Thrawn when the agreement was to vote for me and hunt scum for the case that i flip green? It's a fucking brilliant plan. But i will not go down. You know I voted for thrawn when it didn't even matter right. I just consolidated. There were 4 votes on him by the time I swapped. I didn't even push thrawn that hard. It was meant to be in the unlikely event that you flipped green. The thing is then, as now, you came out all guns blazing putting in a large effort to find scum. It wasn't genuine however because you ceased to do so as soon as you were not going to get lynched any more. I guess that just shows how unafraid of a lynch i was. Besides, you called that to attention back then, as you are now. Back then, you still didn't change your vote to me. (actually, you only mentioned it after the lynch to ensure no one would follow in your footsteps, or have a reason to vote for me). | ||
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Draz and Hope intentionally tanked to let the last scum play alone. | ||
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On November 17 2012 11:36 Hopeless1der wrote: See? That clearly says DPDP Vote dp guys | ||
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DP has been asking me to concede so much to appear to imply my scumminess. He has put on an gaudy show of excessive towniness that seem to have passed through your eyes. He's trying too hard and being too impatient. Goddammit. Can i get prome to replace me? | ||
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I'll try to make it here a few minutes before the deadline to grovel. | ||
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DP is scum. Honestly, I'd rather laugh at DP for all of those "nice bus, DP" comments before. I shouldn't be alive in a MYLO. No townie would want me alive in a MYLO. DP has been in complete control since he became the only power role People have been sheeping him all game He manipulated the NKs to implicate me But immediately implicates me (again) by killing Prome when he RBs someone else. Anyone but DP would have been far far far more patient as scum. ONLY DP was in a rush to get this game over. "Don't want nolynch" "i have another game" "he has another game" - someone else | ||
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Why do you have to hate me? I want to love you Save me. | ||
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You bussed your teammates as if they were trash I wish to get rid of you as I do, a pink-and-red rash | ||
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On November 18 2012 08:01 DarthPunk wrote: No. I am not scum. You are. But you are being somewhat amusing so I guess that makes up for you wasting 2 days by not conceding. Daypost inc right? Ok. This will be fun. Last ditch effort: DP stands for dirty persons Release stands for release-the-townies from the dirty persons | ||
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You can tell it's over by the delay because he's writing up a summary | ||
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Be disappoint sons. | ||
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GJ son. Town sucked | ||
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WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF | ||
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I think i offended fuba with "he's full of excuses" so he voted me as a OMGUS and Kush sheeped all game(when his vote didn't exactly matter) but the one time his vote did matter, he still sheeped. | ||
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You have no idea how annoyed i was when Kush voted for DP then switched to me | ||
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On November 19 2012 10:10 Promethelax wrote: Because I hate sheep. I know that isn't a good reason. I made stupid plays trying to get people besides you playing the game. It went badly. I will not do so in the future. Believe me, I feel bad already, after I was dead Marv sent me a "we need to talk" message and after the game ended Kush sent me a "WTFWTFWTFWTF this game is 100 no 200 percent your fault" message. lolno. It was kush's fault. The one time when his vote counted, he chose not to think (as he did when his vote didn't count). | ||
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I need to play a game as scum one of these days. I still do not know the difference between how scum and townies play. | ||
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BUt during the game, we doubted whether the setup used different numbers of roles so none of it is actually important. | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:52 Acrofales wrote: What was your guys opinion of the mason roleclaim? Was it a good idea at the time? In hindsight? First, I want to commend Muso for his play, even though it was a judgement error. I had never thought of the "town reason for fakeclaiming mason" into account, but Muso was right: if TL games didn't tend to run on a LAL policy, it makes good sense: town is not relying on the mason's night actions, yet scum wants masons dead, so a VT not too sure of his analytical skills can take one for the team in this manner. I was kinda excited about counterclaiming for two reasons: The first was obviously that I just took one look at the claim and thought "that is a bullshit claim and if I were a mason I would not claim like that. Less so if I were completely new to the game". Which led me to wonder who and why would try to fake claim and I figured the fastest way to defuse that claim was to counterclaim. Seeing as nobody else had counterclaimed yet, I was fairly certain that either Muso was actually a mason derping it up completely, or there were no masons. The second was to gauge reactions around the way it played out and get some actual useful content, which was absolutely lacking in what was looking to be a regular D1 snorebore. The most interesting D1 (actually N0, but lets not nitpick) I have played was when Hiro made up the bullshit "House Chezinu" claim in Bastard Mafia 2: while not quite on the same scale, I thought the way the story would unfold would give us some rather interesting discussion. This only partially worked out. It did generate a lot of discussion, but the people whose reaction I connected with scum mindset were all town. The scum simply rolled with the punches and lurked through the whole ordeal. Nevertheless, I feel the discussion generated was generally useful, but am not sure it was enough to justify the gambit. @Bugs: I was not sure the encryption was in the spirit of the game. Doing that with steganography would have been possible, but a lot harder. Are you okay with that? Zealos clearly wasn't and I have seen encryption used to pretty much break some non-normal games. However, I didn't see much harm in doing this here. @Prom: sorry for pushing you so hard in the early game. However, the pushing served its purpose and made me lean town on you before it was lynchtime on D2. You played well, until you decided to lynch thrawn for no sane reason I can think of (and yes, I read your postgame justification). @Sandro: you are just as wrong as I was during the game to put too much stock into the setup: A full JK and a 1-shot: JJ (or DD if you prefer) A full roleblocker and a 1-shot: RR A 1-shot cop: C Makes: JJRRCTT, which according to the regular C9++ rules is a game without an SK. Therefore all speculation about the existence of a scum RBer based on setup is circumstantial, because Bugs clearly changed the setup in more ways than just replacing millers and medics. More ranting at Kush, Fuba and Release (and a bit at Prom) at endgame: However, by LYLO the C9++ setup speculation was irrelevant: there was a claimed jailer. Scum does not leave claimed jailers alive. Especially not 2 nights in a row. The no-kill was a good idea from DP, but town should 100% have lynched Release and then DP, or vice versa. I presume Prom has read my ranting in the obs qt about the whole "lets make cases" dealio... and DP has already chipped in for the scum viewpoint on how much fun shitting up the thread was. No need for cases, the game is played out. You reached endgame. You have 2 lynches to kill the last scum. Scum doesn't voluntarily let blues live. Therefore if Release isn't scum, DP is. Everything else, including how scummy thrawn, mkfuba and kush look is irrelevant. There is only very strange WIFOM that lets thrawn be scum in the endgame that DP orchestrated. For the wifom to be in any way believable, DP would have had to forego killing the last night as well (if you lynch Release as you damned well should), which means town gets a free mislynch, lynches Thrawn and then lynches DP at lylo instead of mylo). There were SO many things wrong with town at the endgame: nobody asked why the fuck a town RBer would not block Release again? He did so once and it apparently prevented a NK. Acro, flipped roleblocker, ALSO RB'd Release on a night without a kill. Therefore RB'ing anybody other than Release is fucking retarded from a town point of view. Yet, DP roleblocked FUBA. Why? Well, he needed to fucking kill somebody AND lynch Release. If he killed somebody with Release RB'd, then he would be in deep shit. Add everything together and it was 1000% obvious that DP was scum (even with a town read at the time of my death). But town switched their brains off at endgame, which will continue to make me bang my head into a wall every time I watch a looney tunes cartoon. Thanks for ruining fun cartoons, town. it would be nice to know why kush and fuba lynched me. Some personal confirmation would be nice but i believe: Kush wanted scum to win Fuba wanted to vote me because i called his IRL excuses and bullshit | ||
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StarsWar
Sparkling Tuna Cup
Chat StarLeague
BSL
ForJumy Cup
Chat StarLeague
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