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Acme Mini Mafia, Inc - Page 94

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Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:03 GMT
#1861
Kush my lazy friend, step it up. If you don't think that DP is scum show me why. Get into his filter and show me what you think. Get into everyone's filter and think through your next scum read. Play as if Release was town and already flipped.

I wish release would concede. T.T

TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:04 GMT
#1862
On November 13 2012 16:02 kushm4sta wrote:
@DP I don't get why we have to make cases now and not after the flip?? If there is a case it will still be there to be made after the flip.

don't make excuses. Just do it. It'll help the town. That should be your goal.

@prome
Fuba's filter is only 5 pages long but the first page is fucking dense.
☺
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:04 GMT
#1863
On November 13 2012 16:01 kushm4sta wrote:
Also I'm the worst player, release, not you. Stay away bitch that title is mien.


Don't be proud. Improve.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
thrawn2112
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States6918 Posts
November 13 2012 07:06 GMT
#1864
On November 13 2012 15:54 Promethelax wrote:
Thrawn: wonderful that you came back but I need a case from you on your top non-release scum read. Is that fuba?



Yes, fuba. could also be dp. If release isn't scum then I think scum is probably a roleblocker fake-claiming blue
"People think they know all these things about other people, and if you ask them why they think they know that, it'd be hard for them to be convincing." ES
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:06 GMT
#1865
The density of Fube's filter is a good thing. He has a lot of things to say but not a lot of time to spam. Go deep into his filter. So what have you learned in his dense filter?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:07 GMT
#1866
On November 13 2012 16:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 13 2012 15:54 Promethelax wrote:
Thrawn: wonderful that you came back but I need a case from you on your top non-release scum read. Is that fuba?



Yes, fuba. could also be dp. If release isn't scum then I think scum is probably a roleblocker fake-claiming blue


Would you please do me the kindness of building a case on the one you find scummier.

How confidant are you in your check? Do you think Kush is confirmed town?
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10855 Posts
November 13 2012 07:08 GMT
#1867
On November 13 2012 16:02 kushm4sta wrote:
@DP I don't get why we have to make cases now and not after the flip?? If there is a case it will still be there to be made after the flip.


Because we don;t want to get complacent and let the thread die and then go oh WTF? release flipped green now we have to figure who the fuck the scum is and noone is here. Also more time the better. It's just safer this way IMO. Hope for the best, Plan for the worst and all that.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:10 GMT
#1868
What DP said. That little rapscallion knows whats up.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10855 Posts
November 13 2012 07:16 GMT
#1869
^_^
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:18 GMT
#1870
ok Page 1 done:
FUBA

On November 02 2012 02:59 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up.

About Release:
I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today.

As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim.

##Vote Muso


He's already buddying up to me. Note the lack of anything extreme:
"He might ..." instead of "is bad" and "slight..."

On November 02 2012 10:50 mkfuba07 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote:
Okay.

I take full responsibility for this situation.

Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault.

1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following:
1. this is a suicide play as scum
2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams,

Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you.

I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla.

2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now.


1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal?

2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim.

I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town...

##Unvote Muso

I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later.

Muso, too, is bad and a potential buddying target. He is quite indecisive here and i see the unvote as a testament to what can be seen in the bold.

On November 03 2012 05:45 mkfuba07 wrote:
Yeah, sry guys. I've been reading the thread for the last few hours, trying to figure out what I want to do...

I don't feel like voting for Muso. I actually have a slight town read on him. I really wouldn't mind a vig shot on him, though. There's a lot of mystery around him, and he's going to be on my mind for the rest of the game after this D1. A vig would save us the worry.

Looking through Draz's filter, I'm not really liking what I'm seeing. Most of his posts are one-liners that don't even really contribute to scumhunting. His posts seem like a lot of riling people up instead of true scumhunting. Then he gives himself an out for the rest of D1 by saying that it's too crazy to deal with and that he'll have better reads after the night post. Well of course he will - we should all have better reads after a flip. I think he has the best chance of flipping scum so far.

##Vote drazak

Muso is essentially in the same position that i am in but he votes for someone else, yet today, he instantly votes for me.
Concession: there is no other heavily suspected target today. But the amount of suspicion on drazak was significantly less than what was on Muso.

On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Drazak made one that was actually worth something(list post) but it definitely didn't warrant the bolded part.
He made that post along with other fluffy posts. Someone who was suspicious of Drazak on day 1 really didn't have any reason to stop being suspicious of him. (not voting for him ok, but still remain suspicious)
The voting is reasonable.

And the last line is pretty much as guilt-looking as I looked for some of my posts.

On November 04 2012 22:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all.

I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD

Wants direction from town and feels that he is weak at analyzing.
I have no idea how bad he is but he can't be worse than I, and his opinion is certainly worth something so is does help, but he excuses himself for not having to actually analyze.

On November 05 2012 00:15 mkfuba07 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2012 02:47 DarthPunk wrote:I have a scum read on drazak. He has posted mainly one liners commenting on the by play of proceedings rather than bring any original thought or information to the thread.

He has also been consistently wishy-washy in his posting.

On November 02 2012 23:36 drazak wrote:
Yeah, I'm getting a bit fed up with Kush asking for everyone to claim everything, that smells a little scummy to me. Kind of not sure if it's just kush being stupid and trolling like usual (yes, I know, I'm omgusing, don't care) or if he's actually got a larger scheme here.

Kush has admited to me a bunch of times that he doesn't thinks before he posts, so I dunno, but he keeps being stupid I think we can chalk it up to stupidity/trolling, if he stops, it was probably a scheme.

I'm not sure what to think about prom, the case against him is ok, but maybe prplhz was distracted and/or confused.


Like I was going to go through this post and bold the wishy-washy bits but then I may as well have bolded the entire post.

Just read that and find one solid statement. Because I sure as hell can't. But note the part I have bolded and then read drazak's subsequent series of posts which stuck out to me quite starkly.

He goes from wishy washy on kush. Saying he could be scummy. Then he posts his role name somewhat aggressively.

On November 03 2012 05:53 drazak wrote:
Kush, do you even read my posts? Also, trying to write a long post in another window, hold on a bit. I'm a VT, Carrot, btw.


After which kush thinks he is town based on his theory with the flavor immediatly after kush unvotes him and declares him to be town. Drazak posts his 'reads'

On November 03 2012 06:07 drazak wrote:
Release actually tried to scumhunt, I'm seeing town on him, even though he still wants to vote for me. I don't think he's done anything to cause confusion, and I think he really wants to find a mafia right now, which is what I'm trying to do.

Mattchew is also looking town, although I'd like him to be a bit more active, I don't think he'd say that he likes his gut instincts D1 if he didn't believe in them and have somewhat decent evidence, less town than release but definitely a town read.

Hope has about the right amount of defensiveness for a townie, he's gone to lurk mode around lynch time which makes me a little nervous, everyone else seems to be here and willing to talk except him. Not sure what he's up to but when he starts posting again I hope he has a good explaination, I'm neutral on him right now.

Thrawn has been trying his damnedest to scumhunt for a D1 hunt, not sure what he thinks he might actually accomplish, but he's asking questions like I should be (but I don't because I suck ) and trying to make things happen. I find him distinctly town at the moment.

risk.nuke has not a lot to go on in his filter, and every single one of his comments is 1 line and most of them are fluffy. I think this is even worse than my posts have been. I find him 2nd scummiest after muso.

Kush is just doing his fucking trolly ass shit. Town meta for him 100%

Zealos doesn't vote anyone and isn't happy with Acro or Muso, not sure what to think here, he wants to vote two of my town reads, not sure I like this, but might just not be following that closely.


First of all I hate lists such as these. They allow scum to seem to participate without actually doing anything. A few sentences on several players comprise drazak's 'reads' HOWEVER. Note the read on kush. He has gone from scummy and wishy-washy to 100% town meta. IMMEDIATELY after kush declares a town read on drazak. It seems as if Drazaks opinion of someones scumminess is linked to their opinion on draz. Now THAT is scummy to me. Combined with all the wishy-washy posting and fluff one liners. I would certainly like to lynch drazak.

Snipped out the drazak portion.

While I'm by no means certain of it (as I am rarely certain of anything), I'm back to thinking there's a strong chance that drazak will flip scum. I realized while considering this case that too often I immediately give people the benefit of the doubt. That being said, here's my analysis. Firstly, I don't see wishy-washiness as a very strong scum tell. This is because I am probably the wishy-washiest player who has ever played on TL and I've only rolled scum once. I understand that it is a scum tell for other people, but I just can't see it that way. That being said, the fact that drazak's read on kush seemed to change as a direct result of kush's read on drazak changing certainly feels scummy. I didn't feel a particular change in kush's play during that time. In addition, this recent post from him makes me feel like he thinks kush is scummy again, despite the fact that he said kush was 100% playing to his town meta:
Show nested quote +
On November 04 2012 22:03 drazak wrote:
so... we've got an sk for sure? No way that was a vig shot or something?

Hey kush, why did you bluehunt so hard, I'm not cool with that.

Finally, what DP said about the "list of reads" posts are what made me realize what makes me so wishy-washy. On that point I was reading drazak's posts as a townie trying to avoid a mislynch without equally considering that it was scum trying to avoid a legitimate lynch. Given that everything I've previously mentioned about drazak's play still holds true imo, he's my top scumread at the moment.

@Drazak
What made you switch from "kush looks kinda scummy" to "kush is playing 100% to his town meta"? And do you now think kush is playing scummy again?

Now that Drazak is looking bad again (he never actually looked good tbh)
fuba excuses himself for ever considering Drazak as town and what used to make drazak look good now make drazak look bad.
I see a lack of a focussed train of thought here.
Bus begins here (-ish)
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:18 GMT
#1871


On November 05 2012 04:24 mkfuba07 wrote:
First of all, I completely missed your request for my top three scumreads from you Acro. My apologies.

I actually don't think I have three at the moment. Drazak is definitely one of them. I'm still waiting on a response from him.

After reading your case against Release, which makes a lot of sense, he's back on the list. His immediate appearance in the thread, as you've pointed out, strengthens the case. I'd make him the second one.

Third... I'm not sure. I'm going to look at Prome's D2 as a whole, instead of in individual posts to see if I see the same things Hope does. One thing that struck me as odd was when risk posted about Prome fake claiming being roleblocked, simply because the same thought occurred to me as well. I accepted Acro's claim immediately, but Prome's made me feel weird about him. I don't know why, but maybe my read through his D2 will give me some insight. Right now it's just a bad feeling accompanying my earlier town read. However, as Acro pointed out, it's easy to act town for a while to save yourself or your scumbuddies, but if you have to do it over an extended period of time you'll probably slip up somehow.

Finally, my school's cdl team just roped me into streaming and casting our team's match in 45 minutes, so I have to get ready for that. I should be back in about... four hours at most.


Buddies up to Risk in this post. But ofc, doesn't take full responsibility, by mentioning risk.
"I don't know why" = excuses himself again for not having actual reasoning.

""""""@Kush: You can see indecisiveness and inherent guilt in every one of my games here. You've basically described my meta perfectly. The difference in this case is that I don't have far more experienced players who understand my meta in this game to defend me from my own shortcomings. This means I have to explain it to those who haven't played with me before so that they don't jump down my throat for something that I've done in every game. You've essentially accused me of playing to my meta (I won't say town meta, since I don't even have a full scum game here) and being honest/transparent. It's actually a bit strange, because you've actually played with me before and should understand this. Oh, and what are your reasons for wanting to lynch hopeless?"""""
Didn't want to quote the whole post:
Excuses himself again. Kush outlines what i basically have in detail and Fuba chooses to excuse himself based on Meta (which, I'll say again, i think is completely shit)


On November 06 2012 04:50 mkfuba07 wrote:
Man this post took a while. I'm back and I should be at my computer until the end of the day (right after a shower, as I just woke up).

Show nested quote +
I was just doing some reading, I had a flash of brilliance as I slept and remembered thinking that Fuba played a lot better than this when I last played with him.
Looking back at my history I finally found the game he was in with me, NMM XXIII, in that game (both iterations of it, one in which he was scum and the other he was town) he played an active and interested game. He says now that there are always people defending him based on his scummy meta but I don't find that to be accurate. In NMM XXIII he did not appear scummy and played as if he cared.
His behavior this game has been totally different and anti-town, while I don't know if Kush, Draz or Release can play a better game I am confidant that Fuba can. I was planning on putting a pressure vote on him to post his reads when I last posted but edited it out before I posted becasue I didn't feel that there was a real case on him. Now that I have looked back at him I am placing a real vote, no pressure intended, just looking at scum.

That was my very first game, and I was genuinely more excited and able to participate than I am now. If anyone is going to look into NMM XXIII, keep in mind that the first half of my filter is scum mkfuba, and the second half is town mkfuba. And I didn't mean to imply that I had people defending me all the time, I simply meant that there were always people there that understood my meta and would be able to explain that I am wishy washy in all of my games (possibly excluding that one, I don't exactly remember). If someone would have called me out as wishy-washy, there would be marv, or hapa, or even blazinghand once to point out that I regularly play this way. In this game, I had to do it myself because I don't think anyone else would do it for me. And how often do you implicitly trust someone when they talk about their own scummy meta after being called out as scum? Not very often. For that reason, I explicitly stated how I felt and what was going on throughout the entire game.

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 02:59 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all! I forgot this was starting, and I just caught up.

About Release:
I don't think he's scum. He seems too involved and sincere to be scum. He might not say the best things at all times, but so far I have a slight town read on him. In any case, we seem to have moved passed him for the most part today.

As for Muso and Acrofales... this is an awkward situation. If there's only one mason pair (which looks to be most likely), I'm inclined to believe Acrofales over Muso. I find it more likely that Muso fakeclaimed mason before there were any claims, than Acrofales fakeclaiming mason after there was already a claim.

##Vote Muso


This is on page 11, where both Acro and Muso had claimed but well before we knew that either had fake claimed. What we see is that Fub is voting based on the fake claim of muso. As was everyone, note though that his reason is completely comprised of that one facet of muso's play.

On November 02 2012 10:50 mkfuba07 wrote:
On November 02 2012 09:37 Muso wrote:
Okay.

I take full responsibility for this situation.

Admittedly, I didn't make any attempt to assess the experience levels of anybody here before I started this game, so this is undoubtedly my fault.

1) However, I banked on Acro and his teammate figuring this out instead of coming out and counter-claiming me. Pretty much everybody in the game determined the following:
1. this is a suicide play as scum
2. it is extremely unlikely there were 2 mason teams,

Unfortunately, the masons didn't make the next leap in the puzzle, and think outside the box to figure out WHY? Fair enough, I'm not blaming you.

I am Kid Watching TV, aka a vanilla.

2)The point of the gambit should be obvious now.


1) So your claim is that you were hoping the scum would assume you're telling the truth, and hoping the real masons, if they even existed, would know you're not a newbie scum. Even though you made it clear that you are a new player... What was your ultimate goal?

2) It's blatantly obvious why scum would claim mason (though risky in the event of another mason team actually existing). It's much less obvious why a townie would do so. I want to see what the "point of the gambit" was, but the way it stands, all you did is force one of our masons to claim.

I... don't know what to think about this. It feels like a really noobish mistake that either town or scum could make. I see more motivation for scum, but for some reason I think he's more likely to be town...

##Unvote Muso

I don't really know who I want to lynch after him, though. I'll give more thought to it when I get home later.

And now that it is confirmed that Muso fake claimed (the reason that Fuba voted him) Fuba unvotes him. There is literally no reason for town to change their read at this point, nothing about the situation has changed in Fuba's mind. Muso had fake claimed when Fuba first posted and he had Fake claimed when Fuba next posted, how did this change from a scum read to a town read? And, to the sentence I highlighted we see that Fuba has left himself totally open to vote switch back onto Muso to make this mislynch happen.

Don't tell me what has or has not changed in my mind. You have no idea what kind of shit goes on in here. My mind changes between the time it takes to hit "enter" and the screen to refresh after I've posted.
I may have mentioned that it takes me an eternity to read, analyze, and write up posts before. If I haven't, let this be the post that I can point back to in future games and say, "Yes, I have said that. It is at least part of how I play as town." The post you quoted probably took me at least 45 minutes to write. Over that time, I came to a few conclusions. When I say I talk myself in circles all the time, this is one example. I feel that the red numbering and skeptical manner in which I ask the questions indicate that I wasn't inclined to believe him. By the end of that 45 minutes, however, I had the time to think about it. As you bolded, I did see more potential scum motivation, but his explanation fit within the bounds of town reasoning. Sure, not typical TL reasoning, but from it I was ever-so-slightly leaning town on him. As for "leaving myself totally open to switch back onto Muso to make a mislynch happen", anyone who doesn't say that someone is 100% scum or town is open to switch on and off of them. Either way, that is where I stood.

Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 06:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
What if Drazak is lying about his name now that you've made it clear that you think all VTs have non-character names?

I'm TNT. See, I can do it too.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yes, this is a lie.

On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Your flavour theory is bunk and I am showing how bunk it is by saying that I am town.
No, wait, I take it back, the lynch is close, haha lols totally swayed by it. Also don't mind how scummy I look, I always look scummy d1.

...sure.


I implicitly state that I was lying in that post. If someone was swayed into thinking I was town because I wrote a fake name in bolded green text then that's something I won't apologize for. I really wouldn't expect that statement to sway anyone. I wanted to see if kush was really serious about his flavor theory. I know that that kind of analysis would lead to scum gaining more information than town, so I wanted to stop him from going much further (what better way for sk to get scum to shoot all the blues than to point out all the VTs in the thread and point scum in their direction?). That being said, I had reason to believe that he might have been on to something. My reason for switching off of Draz wasn't exclusively the flavor thing. It was his manner of posting at the time. As for me looking scummy D1: this game I was scummy enough to be shot D1, this post and this post speak to my wishi-washiness and adherence to my "feelings" while playing, particularly around the D1 lynch. Those are the main games that I think about when I consider my meta, probably because they're more recent than my newbie games and they're games against people that are more experienced than me, which always makes me edgy.

Show nested quote +
Fuba follows this up with an out for the rest of the day until the lynch
On November 03 2012 06:32 mkfuba07 wrote:
Also, I'm heading to a meeting now. I may be able to get on for 10 minutes or so before the lynch, but don't count on that too much.

I don't even see how that's scummy. I told you a fact. If you want more information, I had a meeting at 5, it was 4:30, it takes about 10-15 minutes to walk there, I don't have the ID to access the internet in that location and would have to borrow a friend's, and it takes my laptop like 10 minutes to boot up because it's old and I don't take care of it. Believe me, I have plenty more "outs" I could have given myself, but instead I've at least tried to play as much as I could. Is it my best play? Absolutely not. Somehow I was better as a newbie than I have been in any of my other games. It could be my worst game, since there's no vig to shoot me. But it's still town me.

Show nested quote +
and after that gives a town read on a player who is under a lot of pressure and could easily be a vig shot that night (me), if you assume that I am town this looks weird. While I think that I have been playing townie the most vocal players in this game disagree. I have a hard time seeing fuba having his own very different read when he jumped into this game late (see his first post) and had to leave well before lynch (see the last post I quoted). He also manages to give a very light town read on prp's play in the same place he gives me a by before jumping thread.
On November 03 2012 06:33 mkfuba07 wrote:
On November 03 2012 06:32 Acrofales wrote:
On November 03 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
Ah, I see... That makes sense. Thx kush and drazak.

I'm feeling less and less sure of a drazak lynch since he's returned... And as much as I hate to admit it, kush's flavor theory is swaying me a bit. However, I don't know who I would vote for out of everyone else in the game. I think I'm being too liberal with town reads this game... In any case, it looks like muso is likely going to be lynched with or without me, and drazak is less and less likely to be lynched.

##Unvote
##Vote Muso


Ahhh, yet another wishy-washy D1 vote for fuba...

Why not promethelax?

I actually have town vibes from Prome. I also never felt too convinced of prplhz's scumminess.

Really gotta go now~

I don't get how anyone did not see the scummyness in prp's play. As Marv said, in Your Clothes Give Them to Me, prp always seems scummy d1.

Sorry I have a single thought independent of Acro. In almost all other matters I feel like I'm sheeping him, which is something I typically do with experienced players that I believe to be town (usually marv or hapa). I didn't find you scummy, so I didn't vote for you. You think that scum fuba was giving a town read on a townie so that when he flipped town he would look like a townie too? That would gain me nothing, and you know it. This entire point is irrelevant. Oh, and I gave a null read to prplhz.


Show nested quote +
Next we get Fuba's return to thread:
On November 04 2012 22:01 mkfuba07 wrote:
Hi all.

I'm terrible at hopping back into the thread. Is there anything in particular that you'd like me to comment on? If not I'll probably end up solo-analyzing filters and talking myself in circles, which doesn't help anyone XD


guys, I'm a newb, I'm bad, help me. Giving himself excuses and outs. This whole filter is scummy. After all this Fuba posts a whishy washy list in which everyone is called slightly town or he has a town read on, now though he agrees with Thrawn about Release. Remember when Fuba found Draz scummy enough to unvote Muso and vote draz? Yeah, neither does Fuba he hasn't managed to address his read on Draz again this cycle. Fuba is scum.

Just stating facts, trying to get back into the game as soon as possible. I don't know how to just jump back into the game. I usually do it by asking a question, but then people later say, "After all of this discussion, this is all he had to say?!? A-ha! We've found ourselves some scum!" This time I decided to just ask what you guys wanted me to talk about. And sometimes excuses are legitimate. My friends needed a caster/streamer, and I was the only one available (it went awfully, btw). And the "wishy washy list" is a list of facts as I saw them. I had a town read on both you and Acro, but everyone's disagreeing about that so I went back and took another look (unfortunately inconclusive, but I can't do anything about that). And thrawn and kush were basically confirmed town, though it later occurred to me that there's a godfather and possibly an innocent sk, and also that I feel either of those roles could fit kush perfectly this game.

And I didn't forget Draz. I asked him a question, and he returned to the thread while I was asleep. Not that actually pushing my scumreads is part of my meta either. I planned on doing that this game, but how do you pressure someone who's not here to respond to you?

Show nested quote +
TL:DR
Fuba gives himself outs so that he doesn't have to post reads, unvotes Muso for the same reason he voted Muso and drops his scum read on Draz without any of his problems with Draz being addressed.

Mkfuba is Scum and I will be voting for and pushing him today. Acro, since you are the only other active player I'd love your input (though I'm still not convinced that you are town).

False, false, and false (though the third point is consistent with my town meta).

What you have is a case against town Fuba who has far less time on his hands than he was expecting, in a game where nothing has gone the way it has in the past. And while lynching me may not be a loss for town from a contribution standpoint, it's a wasted lynch, and I'll just be added to the list with Mattchew and Zealos.

I have one question for you: As all of your experience with me is based around my first game of mafia ever, you have the unique perspective of having equally experienced my town AND scum games. Do I feel like I'm playing like I did in either of them?

This post is surprisingly useless:
) Meta stuff
) Personal rant and excuses for wishy washiness
) Partially caused by Prome if Prome took the TNT post seriously, but more excuses really. Flavor theory opposition i can agree with.
) Prome's fault. IRL stuff should be ignored unless looking for BC or something extremely urgent
) More excuses and some OMGUS in response to Prome's omgus
) Excuses
) Excuses



☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:19 GMT
#1872
Also while reading through that, I remembered that you (prome) had a case against him too that was addressed largely with (theme of his p1 filter) excuses.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:21 GMT
#1873
The major theme about page 1:
Excuses and a lack of strong stances/specific reasoning
☺
Promethelax
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada7089 Posts
November 13 2012 07:25 GMT
#1874
Reading your case made me winder if you were just copy pasting my case. Many of those thins are ones which I talked about. I never followed it up though and I would be interested in your further push inter his more recent filter. And your conclusion as to the reason for the behaviours you see as scummy. Not simply the behaviours themselves but the scummy motivation behind them.
TL Mafia. Love it. Play it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?show_part=31 I find Kennigit really attractive. If anyone has a picture of him please feel free to PM it to me.
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:34 GMT
#1875
Believe this or don't: I was shocked to see that you had made a case (and i think kush made something much smaller) similar to mine:

The motivation he has is to establish himself as someone who can do whatever he wants without having to be questioned:
Something unusual? "part of my meta"
A suspicious change? "insert an excuse here" (e.g. "I'm always like this")
Essentially, he is establishing himself to do something (that could potentially be scummy) and choose to sheep straight after without having to be question.

I pretty much said the same thing twice.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:36 GMT
#1876
The potentially scummy act is probably something that he actually tried to conjure up without too much town input, but if this isn't in agreement with townie, he lets himself sheep.
☺
Release
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4397 Posts
November 13 2012 07:52 GMT
#1877
page 2 done.
On November 06 2012 06:31 mkfuba07 wrote:
I can't get anything in mafia done in five minutes, lol.

kush, you understand me so well it makes it hard to keep calling you an evil godfather or sk <3

I definitely don't want a no-lynch. Town only has so many opportunities to kill scum, and without a vig, or possibly a vig who saved his shot and is aiming at me tonight, I don't think no-lynching is the best call.

Draz is now second on my scumlist, and his participation since returning hasn't changed my view on him. I maintain that I would be more than willing to vote for kush, as his play this game seems very conducive to an SK playstyle imo. The pesky green check is getting in the way, though.

Since a kush lynch is pretty impossible at this moment, and most people have shown an aversion to lynching drazak today, I'm going to place my vote on hopeless1der. I was more convinced of his scumminess than towniness by Acro's case. Particularly the scummy mindset portion. My strongest opposition for a hope lynch is that drazak is also voting for him, but his wasn't a particularly strong case. I think hopeless has a stronger possibility of flipping scum than town.

##Vote hopeless1der

I haven't seen anything overtly scummy from Prome, but other people have a point in that today hasn't been as convincing of his towniness as D1 most certainly was.

Conveniently takes a stance when it's improbable to change the lynch. This isn't an excuse, but really, it is.
"I think hopeless has a stronger possibility of flipping scum than town" does not coincide with his previous reasoning that there was really no other option. Giving two different reasons for one action in only so much time: i see this as a lack of a train of thought, and therefore scummy.
Here the motivation is to establish himself as a townie without really having to do anything substantive. What i mean is that he doesn't hold himself particularly accountable to anything except for supporting one of his many suspects.
If i see some more pressure against Kush later, than the last statement is mitigated somewhat.

On November 06 2012 06:33 mkfuba07 wrote:
Oh, to avoid a no-lynch I will sheep my top town read: Acro. I'd rather not lynch him, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today.

Another reason. 3 reasons for one action that was supposedly made for 1. I see a motivation in that he wants to avoid being questioned for his vote.

On November 06 2012 06:34 mkfuba07 wrote:
EBWOP: I'd rather not lynch Prome today, but I think our chances of winning are greater as long as there is a lynch today.

in-post edit: I also think the wide array of votes at the moment could indicate scum trying to spread out the vote. That is another reason that I am willing to vote Prome.

Current list of want to lynch targets: kush, Draz, Hope, and prome. Mention 4 in less than 10 minutes.

On November 06 2012 06:41 mkfuba07 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 06:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:
I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum (


uh

what do you guys think about lynching drazak

I'm for it.

##Unvote
##Vote drazak

Insta-sheep.
On November 06 2012 06:56 mkfuba07 wrote:
Either people stop pointing out that I haven't responded to things quickly enough, or I keep telling everyone exactly why I take so long to write anything. One explains the other. There's no way around it. Stop telling me to stop telling the truth. Thanks.

sticking to his excuses. There is a plausibility when he has stuck this long, but in a community of distrust, there's really no trusting anyone so I see this as yet another excuse.

On November 06 2012 08:54 mkfuba07 wrote:
I don't know why, but something about draz is making me think he's actually town. Doesn't it seem like a really stupid move to pull that shit after having your vote parked on him all day? Like, I feel like his plan as scum would have been to bus hope, so why would he pull that shit right around the deadline? It would have been his whole purpose behind voting hope in the first place? Does that make sense?

A vague question, seems like bait. I see this as a post intended to get town talking about why Drazak did such a (i still think it's an incredibly meaningless and non-alignment-telling) thing instead of looking for scum and the rest of Draz's filter.

Conclusions: About 5 times shorter than the first page. Excuses still extant.
Doesn't look particularly wishy-washy at first but if you see that he gave himself 4 people on whom to put pressure, then you can see that ofc it's not going to look that way when it is indeed wishy-washy.

This page, it seemed as though he realized how bad he looked day 1 and tried to disguise himself.
Day1 trying to establish town through meta. Day2 trying to establish as town through conveniently townie-looking actions.

I'll iterate this again: Here the motivation is to establish himself as a townie without really having to do anything substantive. What i mean is that he doesn't hold himself particularly accountable to anything except for supporting one of his many suspects.

I'll be hittign the hay pretty soon. P3 and some of other people's filter will come tomorrow.
☺
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10855 Posts
November 13 2012 07:53 GMT
#1878
Try and be a bit more succinct with your reads. Otherwise they are just going to go over peoples heads.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10855 Posts
November 13 2012 13:33 GMT
#1879
OK here it Goes. I am going through Thrawns Filter before bed.

I know this is long. And I tried to be brief. But I think I found some potentially important things so please bear with me.

Starts off pretty null. He gets really involved in the mason claim stuff. A lot of posts and speculation on it. That situation was disastrous for town BTW it allows scum to post alot and look like they are contributing while townies herp derp and kill themselves.

I found the situation with the masons tiresome and boring so it is somewhat weird that he took such an interest in it.
Maybe scummy but I'l call it a null tell.


The first thing i found off about thrawn was his read on kush.

He makes a FoS on kush

On November 02 2012 21:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
fos kush

muso/acro

His first statement about the double mason claim was this:

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 01:52 kushm4sta wrote:
Why would a scum fake claim mason....it makes no sense even coming from a 100% newbie. I'm expecting 2 mason teams.


Then a page or so goes by with people jumping on the vote muso bandwagon, and then here's kush's next post:

Show nested quote +
On November 02 2012 05:09 kushm4sta wrote:
Wow if muso is actually scum and just randomly claimed mason that is going to be the worst scum play ever...
##vote muso
until we get a claim from his mason partner.
Also I don't think acro's partner should claim until muso's claims.


So he thinks that both claims are legit.... then after people start voting muso he decides to vote muso because of.... what change of opinion? None that I can see, just a disclaimer about waiting for additional claims.

Muso/Acro if you guys are both town and believe each other to be town, and you're skeptical of prplhz for beliveing both claims, what do you think about kush's actions?



Then there are a series of posts which berate him. And then not only is there a turnaround in kush's read on Kush he provides possibly the most useless post ever.

On November 03 2012 03:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
I don't want kush to get lynched today. Yes, he's said dumb stuff and he's on my radar but that's usually how it goes with him. Imo we need more information to make a kush read.


Kush picks up on this and ask what the point is

On November 03 2012 03:18 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2012 03:10 kushm4sta wrote:
On November 03 2012 03:06 thrawn2112 wrote:
I don't want kush to get lynched today. Yes, he's said dumb stuff and he's on my radar but that's usually how it goes with him. Imo we need more information to make a kush read.


I have 0 votes for me. Why would you even say that...
Also thanks for a totally useless post. Who do you want to lynch?
What do you think of drazzaks scummy filter?


You have 0 votes but I wouldn't say that you being lynched is out of the question.

If I knew who I wanted to lynch......... + Show Spoiler +
I'd tell you


His filter is scummy, his initial vote on muso was full of denials of responsibility such as things along the line of "if he's town then he's not helping."

But much like you.... his town filters are always at least a little scummy so I haven't decided yet.


Here it gets really interesting. When asked about drazak he Is INCREDIBLY wishy washy. It is almost classically the scum response. State that your scum buddy is scummy in order to distance yourself but then discredit the very things you just said in order to arrive at no conclusion at all.

Then again in his very next post

On November 03 2012 04:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
got some stuff to do between now and lynch so for now,

##Vote: Muso

I think muso has the best potential for flipping red.

drazak has looked super scummy in every game i've seen him play
release... i'm still wary of him but I like muso's chances of being red better



So he isn't scum because he has a scummy town meta but then he is wary of him but some other guy is scummier....

More. He talks about wanting to lynch drazak

On November 06 2012 06:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:
I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum (


uh

what do you guys think about lynching drazak


Then when someone actually does he backs off
On November 06 2012 06:44 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 06:41 mkfuba07 wrote:
On November 06 2012 06:40 thrawn2112 wrote:
On November 06 2012 06:39 drazak wrote:
I don't want to vote for prom but I will if it means a lynch, I think he's town and anyone who thinks otherwise is probably scum (


uh

what do you guys think about lynching drazak

I'm for it.

##Unvote
##Vote drazak


howcome


Then not ONE thing is mentioned about drazak until this

On November 07 2012 02:37 thrawn2112 wrote:
I do agree that there is a lot of stuff to consider for drazak's case but I'm hesitant to decide on that right now.

ATM I think kush and acro are town. As far as scum suspects other than drazak, I'm somewhat at a loss right now because we weren't really able to get discussion about the hopeless lynch, it just happened. Going through his filter didn't give me much.


AFTER the hopeless lynch AFTER draz claimed scum. There is more of the same wishy washy shit that came before.

Speaking of the hopeless lynch. This is his entire contribution or discussion on it.

On November 06 2012 07:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
hopeless please tell me what that prom comment meant


On November 06 2012 07:49 thrawn2112 wrote:
"I also can't belive that prom just isn't running with this"

what did that part mean


On November 06 2012 07:55 thrawn2112 wrote:
##unvote
#Vote hopeless1der


Compare this to the one other post he made during hopeless' lynch

On November 06 2012 07:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
kush are you really not considering that a scum could just make up a inanimate object and claim vt with it? i really don't see why you are leaning so strongly on this unconfirmed flavor theory that scum can just manipulate by claiming well.

like it's so hard for me to accept that you're playing the game based on that theroy that i'm starting to doubt the accuracy of my check



It seems he has more to say about Kush than about the person he voted for.

Moving on. He questions people when they vote for drazak. Even though before he claimed scum in the thread he was 'wary' of him

On November 07 2012 09:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 07 2012 09:07 Release wrote:
Yo. I was roleblocked.

##vote drazak

His defense before the deadline wasn't tenable. avoid a mislynch?
The response that would have exonerated him (in my eyes) is that he had no reason at all, or that he was dicking around with his vote because already secured.


why did you change your mind on drazak? because he didn't respond by some arbitrary time?

you said a lot of words during n1 about how acro is scum, and you specifically said that acro, prome, and kush are your top scumreads.

to me your drazak vote looks like you're abandoning your scumreads to sheep onto the popular vote


Chainsaw defense of drazak when release casts his vote for him

On November 07 2012 09:54 thrawn2112 wrote:
I'm having the same thoughts about release's drazak vote that I had about release's early game suspicions of kush: they aren't true town suspicious. I don't buy release's drazak vote at all. On top of that, he's only gotten worse about looking inherently guilty since the last time I mentioned him.

##Vote: Release


More wishy washiness over drazak I'll bold the wishy-washy part
On November 08 2012 01:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
With drazak, I agree with a lot of the stuff already talked about.. specifically the voting from D2. So I could still lynch him depending on how the rest of D3 goes. However the drazak bandwagon seemed like maybe almost too much of a natural progression in the thread, and afterwards everyone agreed about drazak and activity was low ever since. So I'm just looking at different stuff in the meantime while waiting for drazak to post

I can't rule prom out. but a lot of that is based on me basically assuming you're town (stuff from prplhz during the early mason claims.) but other than that, I haven't had any huge concerns about prom's play, except that it felt too clean, too intentionally pro-town.


I'm curious if anyone thinks that release shouldn't be lynched.



After the mood of the thread was quite clearly heading towards a resounding Drazak lynch we finally get a firm position by thrawn on drazak

After he had tried to lynch release for voting for this very player. After all the wishywashiness whenever he mentioned draz we get some solid standpoint.

On November 08 2012 12:09 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: drazak


I was going through drazak's filter and it made me put aside my suspicions of his lynch coming about too easily. There is one thing in particular I want to point out that I think makes a red drazak flip is extremely likely.

Here's a series of posts starring drazak, prom, and everyone's favorite vt flavor theory. Prom asks drazak about his role, wondering if drazak is still sticking to his earlier vt flavor claim. Here's an exchange that comes immediately after that.

Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 08:28 Promethelax wrote:
On November 06 2012 08:27 drazak wrote:
I already did that prom, like, D1, I'm carrot vanilla town


Glad to hear it, just wanted to see if you'd stick with that story.


Show nested quote +
On November 06 2012 08:29 drazak wrote:
why would I ever change prom? that would make me insanely scummy


The answer drazak gave is not a town answer. If you are town then your answer will something like "no wtf prom i'm still the same." Drazak says he'd never have changed his flavor because that would make him look scummy... yes scum drazak, that would make you look scummy. But if you're town then the reason you wouldn't change your claim would be because you are town and you didn't lie about your claim so you have no reason to change it.


Of course he comes up with some reason of his own to lynch draz. But that is what scum love to do when bussing.

Then finally after someone had taken his bait for a release lynch

On November 09 2012 07:25 thrawn2112 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2012 07:11 kushm4sta wrote:
##unvote release
##vote drazak

preventing no lynch



Would you still be good with lynching release? I haven't completely decided yet


He goes for it again. Even though his case on Draz was much stronger.

On November 09 2012 07:55 Acrofales wrote:Anything other than Drazak is fucking nuts.

He then get's blaste over this by every person in the thread. and rightly so and reluctantly switches back onto the most solid case he had made all game.

On November 09 2012 07:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
k fine

##unvote
##Vote drazak


Ever since aside from a case on the serial killer Who was also scummy as fuck Thrawn has been laying REALLY low. Sliding by and has not really contributed anything. The weird thing is I didn't seriously consider the possibility of thrawn being scum beofre I went through his filter really thoroughly. But when I did there was A LOT to be found.

If release flips town I think Thrawn is scum.



Ok I am off to bed. I am sorry I didn't do more but that took quite a long time. I would like to hear what others think of the findings here.

I'll be going through more filters in a similar fashion when I get up.

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
November 13 2012 17:07 GMT
#1880
Someone said "Release, stop wasting our time and surrender."

On November 13 2012 08:07 Release wrote:
Sorry. Can't do that.


This is not the response of town. It's the response of a scum with a never give up attitude.
Why would town be "sorry"?
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
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