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On November 01 2012 13:09 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote:
Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted.
Muso... WTF are you talking about. You realise that if he was scum trying to mislynch you with a fake mason claim that would be almost as retarded as claiming unaware nosy neighbour right?
well honestly i have no idea at all what he is trying to do. Just threw out the only thing pertinent to such a claim right now.
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On November 01 2012 13:17 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 13:14 Release wrote:On November 01 2012 13:09 DarthPunk wrote:On November 01 2012 13:07 Release wrote:
Sounds like bait from Muso. Wants me to push the agenda with which i have already parted.
Muso... WTF are you talking about. You realise that if he was scum trying to mislynch you with a fake mason claim that would be almost as retarded as claiming unaware nosy neighbour right? well honestly i have no idea at all what he is trying to do. Just threw out the only thing pertinent to such a claim right now. The only pertinent thing is how you are being set up by his retarded mason claim?!?!? Such inherent guilt. My god.
What? I claimed earlier that kush was trying to get people to claim mason.
Magically, a mason claim appears. "Go, Release, Go!" says Muso. "You can go get him."
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Let's stop talking about this (Muso) until Muso himself replies.
Feel free to rag on me though.
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On November 01 2012 12:16 DarthPunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Sup Guys. Just caught up with the thread. So I have a town read on Kush, Unless he has put a great deal of effort into shifting his meta he is playing his town meta this game. So unless something drastic changes I guess that this is the first time I will not be gunning for you buddy. ^_^
If you are a miller you should claim. But I will be wary of such a claim as there have been times in the past in which an uncontested miller claim day one has sealed the win for scum. So we should exercise our judgement on such claims rather than put blind faith on their townieness.
From my first read through Release is looking suspicious. Firstly he is tunnelling townie kush, although he may be unaware of kush's meta he has a scum read over something which is at worst a null tell.
Secondly his posting feels off somehow this post in particular is scummy as shit. Show nested quote +On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote:
Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion.
So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly.
Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. So after acknowledging that this post is a distraction from the suspicions on himself he attempts to create a tangent discussion on policy. And he proposes a lynch all liars policy that he talks about for a good deal and then decides he is against? It was fluffy and served to distract the thread from pursuing him. Claiming that you are not doing that does not cause it to be untrue, rather it speaks as if he was guilty of doing EXACTLY THAT.
I did not acknowledge that this post was a distraction. I merely stated that it was not relevant to my being hammered for seemingly scummy actions. However, according to your logic, this (and tacitly implied, everything else not relevant to my being hammered) is a distraction, and therefore the only things that won't be distractions are things that ONLY tunnel me.
Is that your train of thought? or are you putting words in my mouth?
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If it is blatantly obvious what you think i'm trying to achieve, let's hear other's opinions on that line.
However, if my supposed intentions are blatantly obvious and i literally mentioned what I did, then you are claiming that I claimed scum. Do you agree?
+ Show Spoiler +What I claim to say is that it the policy talk is impertinent to my being lynched, but remember that i am currently being considered for being lynched.
My intentions for bringing up the discussion about policy have already been stated:
It has been started
It can't be unstarted
So therefore we should finish it before it is used manipulatively.
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I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim.
more to come later.
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On November 02 2012 10:23 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 09:56 Release wrote:
I've caught up with the reading and afai can tell, Muso's reason for why he did such things is based on WIFOM( yes many things in mafia are wifom, but this has little to help up). From what i see the intent of this post was to spread confusion and maybe set up a 1 for 1 trade, which could have been accomplished with accrofale's claim.
more to come later. You've caught up on reading?? What does that have to do with anything. All of muso's reasoning is in his last post. From this post I'm not sure if you think he's town or mafia. Also this makes no sense: Why would mafia do a 1 for 1 trade with a mason, especially with the possibility of a doctor?
Are you trying to start a fight with me?
I said I caught up so i don't get "did you even read?"s in response to my post.
You wanted me to only read Muso's last post and skip everything else?
Spread confusion = mafia trait
Mafia might want to do a 1 for 1 trade because as of now, we see that Muso is terrible, and maybe he had been terrible in the mafia QT. Of course this is Hypothetical and you'd have to ask the mafia themselves to get the right answer.
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On November 02 2012 11:28 drazak wrote:
Why are you so bent on what mafia is doing Release? that only leads to WIFOM and shows a night mindset. Are you mafia? Why are you thinking so much about night?
He asked me.
You want to start a fight with me as well?
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Hell, i even said it was hypothetical, and implicitly called what i said WIFOM afterwards.
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##unvote
##vote: drazak
I have my reasons. We still have a majority on Muso.
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nervous? Probably. Try doing some real analysis and maybe you'll get some results. Very few people are able to get things done by doing what you're doing right now.
This game has been pretty inactive tbh.
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On November 02 2012 11:54 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 11:31 Release wrote:On November 02 2012 11:28 drazak wrote:
Why are you so bent on what mafia is doing Release? that only leads to WIFOM and shows a night mindset. Are you mafia? Why are you thinking so much about night? He asked me. You want to start a fight with me as well? Calm down and stop OMGUSING everyone that questions you
Kush did ask me a question to which i would have no suitable response.
Because i didn't want to leave it as a reason for Kush to incriminate me, i answered.
On November 02 2012 11:55 mkfuba07 wrote:
Release, how do you feel about Muso's explanation?
As i have already said (not meant negatively), I feel that it is inadequate and scummy because it pushes into heavy WIFOM territory. And now that i think about it, he seems to contradict himself:
Makes the "gambit"
Excuses himself for being a noob and liar (aka little/no idea what should happen)
Calls the noob move a gambit (aka idea what should (or he wanted) to happen).
And ofc, spread confusion ---> conclusion = scum
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On November 01 2012 08:22 drazak wrote:
While I think millers claiming early is good, I don't think they need to claim early D1, it gives mafia someone NOT to lynch as the miller doesn't have a useful role, we could have as many as 2 millers, not sure how many mafia there are (don't think it said in the op) but if it's 2 that means they have 9 possible lynch candidates, if there's 4 that's 7 lynch candidates.
Just realized that explanation sucks, but basically what I'm saying is that it gives mafia a TON of information to claim millers so early.
Agrees with the miller claim but adds his own twist (with which he doesn't follow up).
Fluffs it with role setup information, and concludes his role setup information.
Very early in the game so botd, but still not too useful.
next post was a response to confused Kush post so not really influential
The next post is a gem (just follow along in his filter. Don't feel like quoting everything)
He concludes that Muso is useless to town but lacks the same conviction in calling Muso a scum.
Yet, he seems to want to lynch muso regardless of alignment, which draws attention away from scum-hunting and onto a muso bandwagon.
Restates his lynch muso regardless of alignment, but adds in a clause that qualifies his wish to lynch muso. This part is far better than than the unqualified wish to lynch, but i still think scumhunting should be done over getting rid of useless townie; after all, the truth is that up to 4 mafia are still alive and he is tentative to call muso mafia.
Dont care about next post(miller vs mason irl)
Next comes 1-2 liner about setup.
Next one is pointing out that Muso is a liar, something we have all pretty much assumed to be true at this point (judging by the general support for accrofales over Muso). Therefore, this is fluffy.
Next, he complains about my WIFOM, which was in response to a question that asked for WIFOM.
This is poor attack against me because I did as Kush asked; Draz is blaming me for doing something in response to such a question. In any case, the question should have been attacked, not I. This shows a tunneling agenda.
Next is w/e
Next is paradoxical in that he wants me to answer a question asking for WIFOM to reply in a concrete way.
He's setting me up to try to show that i am pulling bullshit out my ass, but i answered with WIFOM and i am getting flakked for that. Either way, he's setting himself up to tunnel (at the moment me), and is not considering things rationally.
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The first half of that post seems a bit summarish but what i was trying to point out is that he wasn't really trying to scumhunt, but to tunnel and to get rid of muso.
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And your "I'm a noob" cry; was that real?
You just said "citizen or vanilla townie as it's called here" which leads me to believe that you have played games before (particularly ones in which VTs were citizens).
Stop lying.
Also, go find someone else to lynch and make a case on him. Shouldn't be too hard with our deluge of information. We're voting you but if we have to unvote you, we'd need someone for which to vote (i'd recommend drazak but that doesn't seem to have any traction).
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On November 03 2012 04:39 Promethelax wrote:
'sup Acro. Care to respond to anything I have said?
Look, I'm town (I don't care if you think so, just run with it for a second) and if you get my lynched and I flip town what will you have gained by having me here? Nothing. You won't even acknowledge me or anything I've said. If, instead you work with me and look into what I have said town might be able to gain something even while mislynching me.
Ignore me if you want to but that is a scum claim.
On November 03 2012 05:00 Promethelax wrote:
<snip>
See above for why I don't want to lynch Muso. His lynch feels like a coin flip that 1) doesn't have an amazing chance of netting us scum and 2) won't help us find the scum team if he is town or scum.
<snip>.
Well the bolds make me feel like you're playing a game of damage limitation:
You're almost assuming that we're going to lynch town and our best shot is to lynch a town who will give us good information.
The next one includes "or scum." As in: if he is scum, we still don't want to lynch him because we won't receive more information about other scum members.
1) we lynch to get scum, so if we think he is scum, we lynch him. No excuses.
2) if he is scum, we can more clearly see the agenda behind it through his posts, intereactions, etc.
I can definitely see a scum agenda: he is trying to cause us to gather as much information as possible without actually hitting a scum.
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##unvote
##vote: Promethelax
No worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler +
accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof
+ Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
I.voted for muso for this reason:
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen.
Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake.
I am anvil vanilla town.
My theory is vts do not have character names.
The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name.
You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy.
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epicly ninja'd by 5 posts but i will state my shit:
I will push for Promethelax, but if such a lynch is impossible and a lynch on drazzak is possible by my switch of vote, then i will do so.
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On November 03 2012 05:49 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 05:46 Release wrote: ##unvote
##vote: PromethelaxNo worries, drazzak, Fos: Drazzak+ Show Spoiler +accrofales: i really dislike the dichotomoy of Town-mafia, mafia -town, town-town, mafia-mafia, and such things as this. They tend to be too hypothetical and lack of concreteness/proof + Show Spoiler +On November 02 2012 23:28 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2012 23:13 kushm4sta wrote:
I.voted for muso for this reason:
time had gone by and no one claimed as his.partner like I expected to happen.
Claim time again lol. but this claim is not fake.
I am anvil vanilla town.
My theory is vts do not have character names.
The only person I think should claim is if you are a vt and you have a character name.
You need to focus more on behaviour and less on mechanics. 1. Because if you even did a LITTLE bit of thought you would see you're barking up the wrong tree and 2. Because more claims at this point is opposite of what we need. Let me spell it out for you. Unless you think it is the bluff of the century (and an INCREDIBLY risky one at that), it is completely impossible that Muso and I are both scum. That leaves: 1. We're both town. This is possible. 2. Muso is town and Acro is scum. This is retarded. Please answer why scum would COUNTERCLAIM a mason claim with no way of knowing it's not legit. 3. Muso is scum and Acro is town. This is possible. Given Muso's playstyle I am hesitant to say whether it's 1 or 3, but leaning marginally towards Muso being town. So, how about you look for scum instead of trying to get people to claim, which is starting to look very dodgy. Why are you voting me? Note just above you Fuba managed to address some points as to why he thinks Draz is the right vote? Yeah you didn't do that. Now come back and back up your vote with some actual thoughts.
I was on the previous page. I don't care whether you believe it: I didn't see those posts between mine.
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EPT
