EPTAcme Mini Mafia, Inc - Page 105
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
@kush: my problem with DP being scum, aside from what would be a really good bus, is that he would have been crumbing jailkeeper since D1. Isn't it risky to claim jailer when you're actually roleblocker and there's an SK in the game? Maybe if you can find a second set of crumbs entirely for roleblocker alone, I'd consider it. Actually, if you found another set entirely then I'd vote for DP immediately. But I doubt it will be there. I'm going to get some sleep now... I should be up with more than enough time to go through release's filter and get something written up. I probably won't write anything on kush unless something really jumps out at me. | ||
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kushm4sta
United States8878 Posts
(But if he's scum after the game I get to point out how I'm smarter than everyone.) Mkfuba vs Release and I'm definitely leaning Release scum. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 15 2012 14:15 kushm4sta wrote: @prome maybe you shouldn't be so sure about DP. You have to look at it from his scum perspective. Both his teammates look super scummy. It's actually his best play to bus them and try to win on his own. Sure I get that but he is the most town looking person left in the game besides myself. While he could be scum it doesn't make the most sense. The only reason you aren't the scummiest is your confirmed green check. I haven't decided who I would vote if I survive until LYLO but I would like us to reach 2-1 lylo, I think that will provide us with the best chance of winning. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On November 15 2012 15:40 mkfuba07 wrote: As of right now, I still think Release is the best lynch. It's kind of hard to make myself wade through his filter when I can decide based on process of elimination, but I'll be sure to get the case up. If anything, at least it will likely convince me more of his scumminess. I'll probably go through kush's too because while the possibility of there being a second godfather is really small imo, the possibility exists. @kush: my problem with DP being scum, aside from what would be a really good bus, is that he would have been crumbing jailkeeper since D1. Isn't it risky to claim jailer when you're actually roleblocker and there's an SK in the game? Maybe if you can find a second set of crumbs entirely for roleblocker alone, I'd consider it. Actually, if you found another set entirely then I'd vote for DP immediately. But I doubt it will be there. I'm going to get some sleep now... I should be up with more than enough time to go through release's filter and get something written up. I probably won't write anything on kush unless something really jumps out at me. So between Release and Kush you think Release is the scummy one. Yes? | ||
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Kush, can you tell me why you find release the scummiest? Thanks. Release: I know you think that Kush is the GF, avoiding that please make a case on him based on his play. Reading his past games would benefit you greatly. Understanding of his meta makes a big difference in how one reads him. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
Especially for me, because almost every time i have encountered meta, it has proven to be largely useless. (thanks hapa). i'll spend the next 40 minutes trying a kush case. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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Release
United States4397 Posts
On November 01 2012 08:08 kushm4sta wrote: Yeah millers please claim except DO NOT say your role's name. I think we can use name claims for evidence in our first lynch. Like ask the person who we are about to lynch what their role name is, then we have a mass role claim after our L-1 says his name. If it matches the theme of ours, we know they might be town (depending on how broad of a theme the names are) What do people think of this plan? Do you understand it and think it's a good idea? flavor and blue-hunting begins. On November 01 2012 09:05 kushm4sta wrote: I'm not being deceitful about it, I just got their names mixed up. I think they should probably both claim actually. @release Are you suggesting that I'm trying to trick power roles like vig, dt, etc into mass claiming? Are millers' true alignment revealed upon death? more blue-hunting after saying On November 01 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote: To the people saying millers shouldn't claim: You are wrong. If I were scum I would be pretty happy with nk confirmed town. That is what is so good about the miller claim. It's confirmed by the second miller. Scum can never claim miller unless one of the millers is already dead. _____ OK maybe mass claim is a bad idea because of blues.. I wasn't thinking that. How about they name claim anyway though and we can all judge the validity of their name claim without revealing ours. _______________________________________________________ On November 01 2012 09:35 kushm4sta wrote: [/i]Aggression is only a towntell if you have meta to back it up. I have seen scum be very aggressive early. I also want to hear more from release about why he thinks my plan was scummy. (also yeah maybe mason claim is dumb now that I think about it more. I can see pros and cons to it.) 1) begins to say meta is important 2) artificially supports his meta by making his derp conspicuous On November 01 2012 10:47 kushm4sta wrote: I guess you have never played with me before. Most of the time I don't think before I post and I'm quite capable of derps as town. About your suspicion of me: Let me get this straight. You think my scumplan was to convince the masons to claim then cover my ass by pretending I mixed up masons and millers? That does not sound like a realistic scumplan! calls on meta to support and conveniently, hope supports him. From these early posts, i see someone with an irrational wish to free himself of any suspicion, and a conscious decision to derp, which causes confusion and delays proper discussion about lynch (unless we had talked about lynching him, which ofc his derps were designed to prevent such a thing. -- On November 01 2012 11:26 kushm4sta wrote: If I had to vote right now I would vote him if that answers your question. @release Please clarify this while it's still fresh in your mind. Am I correct in describing your suspicion this way? Completely equivocates in response to an explicit question. - wishy-washiness + Show Spoiler + On November 01 2012 19:22 kushm4sta wrote: Before you were.talking about how people don't post without thinking in mafia. So you think this is a fake claim? Think about how easy it would be to falsify a fake mason claim. falsify a fake mason claim by forcing the other mason pairs to claim? more blue-hunting. On November 02 2012 00:02 kushm4sta wrote: my thought on release is that it's completely possible he is town even though his actions look fishy. It's pretty hard to tell with new players. I really don't understand how Matt can be so certain about release's alignment this early. wishy-washy again and questions someone with a strong stance (when he doesn't have a strong stance himself) On November 02 2012 07:50 kushm4sta wrote: I'm pretty sure DP is the only one left who hasn't commented on muso's claim. So it's either DP is muso's mason partner or muso is the worst scum ever. Maybe he fake claimed because he was confused about what mason did? (I actually don't know what either a mason or a miller are IRL. There should be more obvious, more differentiated role names IMO) So I will consider anyone talking about muso, or encryption, or the real scum claim, or anything other than looking for scum in the remaining 12 people, unhelpful and therefore suspicious. artificially strong stance that intends to shut down discussion Rest of day 1 is similar. (he takes a stance on drazak, but really, DP(?) and I had already talked about drazak and reasonable suspicion had already been cast. What i see from these posts is someone who refuses to take a strong stance when there is doubt surrounding a person, but is willing to have so strong a stance when there is suspicion on a townie that he is willing to shut down discussion. There is a lack of an appropriate level of strength in his stance (lacking a focussed train of thought) and lots of flavor for the rest of day 1 On November 04 2012 02:49 kushm4sta wrote: Prome already said his name does not fit my flavor theory. Prome please claim, since you already admitted to being a vt. If that is a character name I will stfu about flavor theory forever. Also why did you reveal it now and not during d1? ~~ What is the difference between risk town and risk scum? Does anyone know? Same question for mattchew. ~~ 3 people want to lynch me now! Zealos, acro, thrawn. Anyone else? Are there any questions you want me to answer? The cases are quite spread out so it's a little hard to respond to everything. Summary of the case against me: 1 over reliance on flavor theory I have been pretty obsessed with it sorry. 2 blue hunting I just wanted more evidence for my theory. I only ever advocated 1 vt claiming their name. Also I thought mason should claim in the beginning but changed my mind about it. (The reason I actually made the case for mason claiming is I read in Sandroba's filter from a game a long something he said about there being no downside to millers claiming. But I thought he were talking about the role that is actually masons. Then I see someone this game talking about millers claiming and that authoritative opinion is only enforced, so I assume millers claiming is a smart play.) ^ a lot of text about something pretty insignificant. 3 thrawn saying im off my meta Every game I try to improve and play better. I am being less emotional I think it's better play. (and also I've been hurt so many times in the past) 4 my "scumslip" I said "Why is town fake claiming?" 2 people fakeclaimed mason. I doubt both of them are mafia. So I can say with almost a certainty that town is fakeclaiming because at least one of them is town. Flavor theory outweighs letting the scum see blues? No no no no and more meta to remind us in case we forgot, ofc, now the meta is changing. This is now his panacea for any behavior: match town meta? OK town. doesnt? "I'm changing" bullshit. Complete paradox. On November 05 2012 09:02 kushm4sta wrote: I'm not liking prome. The case is weak imo. Lately there has been talk of him not scumhunting but I think that is just his style. Not liking release. Playing too scummy to be scum. I could get behind a fuba or hopeless lynch though. Consider fubas weak ass filter... inherent guilt talking about how indecisive he is. Also keep in mind he's not a newb like draz, release and he should know better. Too scummy to be scum? Hope and draz were also too scummy. But different stances. Lack of focus/train of thought. "could" but won't if they don't happen and sheep if they do. No stances really. Not liking, but prome is not declared scummy. Too weak of a stance when there is a lack of suspicion. reinforces the italics. Eh i'm running out of time. Important stuff was in italics. | ||
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
1) An elaborate bus and risky fakeclaim from DP 2) kush happening to be given a second godfather role and thrawn happening to check him with the single cop check in the game 3) Release is scum TL;DR for Prome <3: Release is scum. He was saved D1 by Muso's unfortunate gambit as well as Hope's intervention. His thoughts regarding drazak during N2 and D3 don't make much sense. He has been overstating the scumminess of peoples' actions for the entire game to make it look as though he's scumhunting, a fact that was noticed by at least 3 confirmed townies as well as DP (who I consider pretty confirmed town). His fake vig claim is weird as town, and I can see more scummy motivation for it. He showed signs of setting up a mislynch and succeeded. So here is my case against Release. Since I have trouble deciding what's scummy and what's just bad play, I'll be adding in bits from other townies that I agree with. From Mattchew: Release comes in to the thread with this post and edit Sounds very similar to this:On November 01 2012 09:00 Release wrote: to everyone: Are we asking Millers or Masons to claim? prplhz (the origin of the idea) said millers and now kushmasta has asked for masons to claim (although he does avoid saying mason). I have to say already that kshmasta is looking scummy. Since i don't see the advantage of a miller claim, i'd like to know why a miller should claim (from both prplhz and hope in particular). I'd also like to hear from kushmasta why you avoided saying mason. On November 01 2012 09:01 Release wrote: EBWOP: those are three separate ideas, although kushmasta is looking scummy for both trying to change who should claim and being deceitful about it. He accuses kushmasta of... honestly i dont know... especially after he asks about the discussion being about masons or millers. Kush misread the thread / roles being discussed and thought millers = masons... calling him scum for this is the biggest stretch i have seen in a while. there is no way anyone with any level of reading comprehension would draw these conclusions from kush's posting and reading the thread around it release is trying to look like he is scum hunting by skewing kush's words from the thread. On November 14 2012 11:24 thrawn2112 wrote: Acro also attests to the fact that Release is overstating the scumminess of peoples' actions. And DP picked up on the same exact thing. We now know that 4 confirmed (or as confirmed as can be) townies saw the scumminess in Release's case against kush. When I read Release's posts about me, I felt like most of what I've said could be actual town misinterpretations. Prome did it earlier, and we know he's confirmed town. I don't feel like I play the best townie game of mafia ever XD But the fact that three flipped town players (and DP) believe that he's painting townies in a scummy light to appear to be scumhunting, and the fact that until I disappeared last night both prome and DP seemed to be seeing me as town, makes me think otherwise.I didn't like the tone of his cases. It looked like he was just going through filters pointing out anything that could be interpreted as scummy and he wasn't really clear about exactly how scummy he thought either of his subjects were. kush if you remember, it looks like the cases jacob was making at the end of that newbie when you two were scum. They aren't actual cases, just lists of things that could be interpreted as scummy. Another interesting tidbit is that the post that allowed Release to back off of his mistaken kush case was posted by none other than Hopeless1der. It was also one of the posts that Acro pointed out as having a scummy mindset. On November 01 2012 10:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Acro, I just want to confirm that you think Kush derped (i.e. is probably town) and that Release might have derped but it was very scummy and you'd lean towards him being scum. Is that correct? I grudgingly agree that kush derps pretty consistently. On November 01 2012 11:59 Release wrote: It was also Hopeless1der who posted the case for Release's towniness, which for me, at least, was conducive to me being less suspicious of him. It, along with his case against Muso (which also distracted us from Release), were also hope's greatest contributions, which I think tells us something about Release.I would add subtly before convince, but yes. And thought. not think (see below). However, hope has attested to your derp, and that makes 2. I don't have any glaring suspicions to cast against hope so as of now, I will admit that my theory is probably too far-fetched to be the truth. 1st bold: I don't want a lynch-all-liars. 2nd bold: lynch-all-liars is retarded aka i don't want a lynch-all-liars. I agree with myself. However, i don't see how a game 4 months ago has much pertinence to me this game: I have played a grand total of 5 games (including this one) and my mind could have changed between those 4 months. Then, of course, there's the "I'm doing something scummy, but it's not scummy" post: On November 01 2012 11:20 Release wrote: I didn't find this scummy at the time, since I didn't see why scum would say they're doing something scummy while they're doing it. But it, along with the Muso debacle, did effectively distract town from what most people felt was a good scumhunt on Release. I'd probably still see this as a null tell if I wasn't looking at release being scum, but I'd have to admit that it did do exactly what he said it would.Do not use this post later to claim that i am shifting attention off myself. I acknowledge that I am under suspicion. So in the flurry of comment regarding the claiming, we seem to have dismissed the possibility of enacting a Lynch-all-liars policy. The main con i see if we do enact it is that we can't pull use fishing for reactions as freely. The main pro, however, is that people can't claim to be fishing for reactions. Another consequence is that more information is in the thread. Both town and mafia know more about true intentions and can react accordingly. Personally, i am against such a policy because people can very easily say "i changed my mind" and blame/vindication will tend to be imposed base on a town/scum flip. Next Release claims that a 1 for 1 trade would be good for scum, when any town would be happy to set up such a trade. This shows a non-townie mindset. Next is this series of posts in which he seems to be accusing Prome of being scum, but wants to make it clear that he's not subtly trying to trick us into voting Prome based on his choice of color: On November 03 2012 06:29 Release wrote: On November 03 2012 06:30 Release wrote: yeah, the red isn't meant to subtly mean scum, it's just a color. Please don't take it as propaganda/etc. Just my response in a different color. At this point thrawn picks up on the fact that Release seems to be feeling guilty, and that seems accurate. If he's trying to set up a lynch on Prome, why is he apologizing for making prome seem scummy? Next I see a series of cases on drazak as well as various now-confirmed townies. There are obvious reasons to lead mislynches as scum, and obvious reasons to bus your allies. One thing to point out is that after hope flips he drops drazak from his list of scumreads until he gives reasons for trying to voteswitch. Release thought drazak WAS scummy, then he did something that most of town found scummy and hopeless was lynched, then Release no longer found drazak scummy unless he couldn't give a reason for his last-minute voteswitch. Also in there, a possible scumslip: On November 07 2012 00:32 Release wrote: I cut it down because the rest of the post was pretty pointless to include. This is not how I would phrase this sentence as town. You can all decide for yourselves if you think you would.-snip- I don't see why we couldn't have a framer. -snip- When Acro calls him on his switch with drazak, Release admits to being wishy-washy. This is something that he's pointed out in my filter a few times, and something that I tend to not call someone else out on because I *am* wishy-washy as town. If he is wishy-washy himself, then why has he pointed it out as a scum trait in me? Next thing I come to is Acro's claim and Release's fake vig claim. First of all, scum at the point of Release's breadcrumb know that there's at least one more roleblocking role in the game. And they know that they don't have any of the roleblockers, and that it will look strange to town that we have so many blocking roles. So Release breadcrumbs that he's a vigi, gets roleblocked, says it was scum rb because of his breadcrumb, and gets a mislynch on whoever claims roleblocker. Unfortunately for him, no one found the breadcrumb, and we believed Acro over Release. On November 09 2012 09:27 Release wrote: This quote strikes me as odd because as town, I did feel more relieved that we'd found the godfather. It meant that kush was unlikely to be scum. Sure, the sk was still around, but this was new information that made our lives somewhat easier. This might have been my confirmation bias on my thrawn + kush theory, so I again leave it up to you to decide if you remember being more relieved when godfather flipped."Very much would I feel annoyed if the you were the reason we lost after finding the Godfather of all people." Doesn't strike you as an awkward sentence? Ofc i would feel annoyed. We all would. Who cares if we got the GF? He's scum. There's no point in mentioning the GF specifically. Then we get to the last few days, where he is alone and not interacting with a scumteam. His vote for risk makes sense, since to his eyes town was able to ourselves into a mislynch. Then we get to his cases on thrawn and I, which I've basically covered above. We talked ourselves into a mislynch and he went with it. He actually helped that one along by mentioning previously that if we roleblock him, scum could hold their kp to force a mislynch. Remember when he conveniently pointed back to that post after we all voted for him? Yeah. Release is scum, and we should lynch him tomorrow. | ||
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Release
United States4397 Posts
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Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
Fuba. Decent case. How do you feel about a no-lynch? Do you think moving into 2-1 LYLO would benefit us? Assuming a NK comes through of course, if it does not I think we have to lynch [redacted]. | ||
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