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On October 22 2012 00:13 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:05 marvellosity wrote: DP, is it your natural inclination, as scum, to say "let's lynch a townie!"? Or is your natural inclination to avoid saying anything like that at all costs? It is my natural inclination to want to lynch a townie because this ensures your survival for another day. VE knows this. That's why he looks at people who jump on a wagon like Draz did very closely. I even fell for it last game. It's your natural inclination to want to lynch a townie.
Yes.
It is NOT normal for you to say "Let's lynch a townie." There's a huge difference. You say, "This guy (and I don't want to tell you this, but he's totes town) looks scummy for x and y, I think we should vote him." You do not go, "Attention town, I think this guy is townie, let's lynch him."
The vote on someone you explicitly say doesn't feel scummy is NOT good townie play. But it's NOT good scum play. Again, look at it from both sides. It's not that the vote makes no sense from a townie, it's that the vote makes no sense from either alignment. Therefore, you can't get a read off it; it's null.
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On October 22 2012 00:21 marvellosity wrote: Dear austin,
Please would you start being more obscure and absent. I wish to have my customary scumread on you.
Sincerely, marvelbabe It's worrying me too. I had started to find you scummy in LC because you hadn't said I was scummy and disinterested, until you finally did later in the day.
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On October 22 2012 00:31 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 00:26 austinmcc wrote:On October 22 2012 00:21 marvellosity wrote: Dear austin,
Please would you start being more obscure and absent. I wish to have my customary scumread on you.
Sincerely, marvelbabe It's worrying me too. I had started to find you scummy in LC because you hadn't said I was scummy and disinterested, until you finally did later in the day. On a somewhat serious note, you are more involved than I'm used to seeing out of you in the first portion of a Day 1. Anything in particular prompted that, dear? Yes, I think that's mainly prompted by your being absent from thread for like 40 hours. If you'd been here all of D1, I don't think you'd be seeing me as active. I know I don't feel like I've been particularly active yet.
As to me, yeah. I feel like I played super poorly in GSL Open 2, but had good reads at the end (TOWN Y U NO SHEEP ME!?). I feel like I played pretty poorly in LC. Pretty poorly in Looney Lynching. Attempting to play a little better this one.
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On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) It's mainly because Z-BosoN is ALWAYS scum and so he knows alignments.
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On October 22 2012 01:02 DarthPunk wrote: Austin any reads aside from a not scum Draz? Right at the moment, a town read or two, finding this whole v7 thing very odd but keeping my vote on him.
I'll note that I like your response to the atmosphere of the thread. I typed out a stupid post earlier about how there were so many jokes, and it was a lovely town atmosphere, but it was too nice and we were chatting too much and not poking around enough.
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On October 22 2012 03:20 Z-BosoN wrote:Pretty much. It's more of the tone of his posts. On Liquid City, note how he finds a small breach in detail and immediately tunnels on it. He did the same thing in LVII against me. He demonstrates an aggressive, investigative style. This isn't what I'm viewing from him this game. He's being passive and inconclusive on his reads. His only vote is deemed a "provocation" one. I do not view it as a real attempt at pressure, and his general filter seems off. In my mind the townie austin would have been all over drazak or DP over something such as has happened in this game. Hmmm. I'm glad I don't seem crazy tunnelly. Look at Looney Lynching and my play there, or my comments in obs chat. Yes, I've been exceptionally tunnelly in some recent games. It didn't work out well.
I'm curious though, why would you think townie austinmcc would be all over drazak or DP?
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His not posting could go either way, it doesn't really do anything.
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On October 22 2012 04:33 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 04:33 austinmcc wrote: His not posting could go either way, it doesn't really do anything. Yea, so should we lynch him because of it? I'm not voting him purely for not posting.
Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but [v7] has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH)
There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them. Much of your posting is just about DP last night, and everyone seems to have concluded that DP is town because of how he explained/tried to explain himself. That was just easy activity and an easy way to make it look like you cared about something.
That applies to me too. We can all be suspicious of EVERYONE who has basically only been active for that. Those are my initial posts. Basically, I just looked at the people that called out DP on his weird "what's your role" question. During that discussion, I would assume at least one of our scum became active, it's an easy way to be active in thread, to blend in with town. v7 in particular had done almost nothing outside of poke at DP.
Out of what we've actually got to work with, v7 sticks out to me mainly because his posting fits the bill for how I'd think a scum would engage in that discussion. Chiming in, saying the same things we're all saying.
Also he may or may not have posted GSL spoilers. I still haven't watched although I'm an idiot and let TL and reddit spoil the outcome. Super anti-town.
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On October 22 2012 04:45 Z-BosoN wrote: Well, as you yourself said, a lot of people jumped on DP for this. You removed blame on them because they continued to post and make contributions. So in a way, the fact that he isn't posting when ONLY having done that in this game is why people want him dead right now. Since he hasn't posted yet, I'm concluding that he's not reading the thread, and not really giving a damn. Marv, what say you? Here's an overly wordy explanation of my thoughts, spoilered because this ends up being very long - + Show Spoiler +Question is on pg. 2 of the game. iamperfection is the first to point it out, calls it blatant blue hunting, votes DP. - Strong entrance, proactive, drops a vote before any discussion.
drazak says I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote. - Very odd comment, votes, everyone gets on his case about it.
hapa says On October 20 2012 10:04 Hapahauli wrote: Dayum fireworks are flying already. As much as I'd love to join the gangbang, I ain't going to vote DP for a stupid reason like that. - Looks less townie than iamperfection's strong entrance/vote or hapa's weirdness.
- Hapa then immediately becomes more concerned with drazak's weird "I didn't want to be first to vote"
At this point, DP explains himself, says every scum will claim green and if he asks role then scum can't fake claim later. DP also proactively asks iamperfection if he's happy with that explanation (townie), and sort of pokes at him for dropping a vote and leaving. z-boson comes in, says scum don't ask people if they are blues, calls it a null-tell - Don't find it scummy. It's true, he doesn't take more time than he needs to discuss it.
At this point, before v7 enters, IF I were certain there was one scum in the people who had commented/voted, I'd find hapa the likely candidate.But then v7 comes in. On October 20 2012 12:10 vaderseven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 20 2012 10:09 DarthPunk wrote:On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action. On October 20 2012 09:14 DarthPunk wrote: Hi drazak? What is your role?
blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role? Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more. ## Vote DarthPunk Every scum is going to claim green. If I ask role instead of alignment he can't fake claim later. Really you stand by that? You don't care about the alignment someone claims (and why should you at this stage of day 1, it would be joke posts at best)... and you want to peg someone on either claiming their role or lieing about in thread. When asked to explain it you don't fall back on 'jokepost lol' and instead give us this line about setting someone up to be caught in a lie? I r confused. Thats like too scummy in a bad way to be possibly true. I have to write it off as just stupid. v7 thinks DP's explanation is too scummy to be true, and it's just stupid. He's written off DP's answer as stupid. Then says On October 20 2012 12:11 vaderseven wrote: Draz, I hope you are smart enough as either green or blue (assuming you are one of those) to not bother answering that question. When drazak already answered the question. Seems odd that he's read DP's question, read DP's explanation, but have entirely missed drazak's answer. He doesn't actually know what all happened, but he's on DP's case anyway. Keirathi then pops in to comment on v7's post: On October 20 2012 12:19 Keirathi wrote: I completely agree with vader here.
I mean, DP, what if Draz is a blue. What do you expect him to say? Of course he's not going to claim a blue role (I hope), a few hours into day 1. So, he claims Progamer. Then he gets close to lynch, and says "Okay, I'm actually Nestea. Don't lynch me!". What are you going to do, lynch him because he lied and said he was progamer 3 hours into the game?
I call bullshit. You know that everyone is going to claim progamer just the same as everyone is going to claim green.
There were many acceptable replies iamp's accusation. Yours was not one of them. He's much more forceful in what he's saying. "I call bullshit" "There were many acceptable replies...yours was not one of them." Actually keirathi's response is also interesting to me. iamperfection votes DP, for reasons keirathi seems to agree with. Keirathi calls DP's response bullshit and unacceptable, and...that's it. There's no vote, no FOS, no further comment. "You have given a bullshit/unacceptable response to a vote...carry on." Kind of odd to me. Kei doesn't comment any further. Doesn't follow-up on this. But v7 putters around slightly more On October 20 2012 12:42 vaderseven wrote: You seem to not get that scum would just the very obv thing of claiming green now without a care for the future. Fake claims are not prepared this far in advance.
Thats such a "duh" that I am pretty sure anyone trying to think about your statement would have come to that conclusion. This isn't any new information. It's just sort of gratuitous piling on. Okay so...if I really break everything down, post-by-post, I also don't like keirathi's participation in the whole bit. v7 and keirathi, both look scummy to me based on this, hapa not really because others limped in after him with even worse posts. Hapa pops back in later to comment, quick comment, gives his thoughts, gets out.
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On October 22 2012 04:51 Hapahauli wrote:Regarding AustinJust like Marv, I'm really really good at wanting to mislynch town-austin every time we're in a game together. However unlike marv, I don't get townie vibes from his filter so far. This post especially is strange: Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:On October 21 2012 06:24 Z-BosoN wrote: lol, my vote was a pre-game joke. ##Unvote Let's not die guys. This game will take forever if it's this inactive. Austin, you've played with Kei in liquid city. What do you make of him? I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game. Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive. I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.
Right now, and I haven't looked at his past play recently, but v7 is sticking out to me somewhat. The DP stuff was EASY to mine for activity last night, poke at it poke at it poke at it. And very safe too, because the way he started to flop around felt townie, so you could attack attack attack and just say "Eh, his flopping around townie." A couple of us did that, but DP has almost only talked about his past games and the DP stuff last night. (AND THEN HE MAY HAVE SPOILED GSL, UNSURE, I AIN'T CLICKING THAT UNTIL I WATCH) There's nothing more than that to go on, but out of all the people who have some posts, his feel like there's the least in them.
Not relevant to anything that's happening, but spoilered for DP and so thread can see my thought process: + Show Spoiler +On October 20 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: So what you are saying is that me asking the only person in the thread at that point makes less sense than calling for a mass claim 30 mins into day one.
0_o I asked if you thought he was scum because of this On October 20 2012 13:20 DarthPunk wrote: If there was even the slightest chance that draz was scum and would be less comfortable fake claiming it was a better play than the alternative IMO.
I am done with this. You don't agree. so be it.
If you didn't have any particular reason to believe draz was scum, then I was uncertain why you'd only ask HIM to roleclaim. The logic that this was a better play than not asking people would hold true for everyone, so if you were REALLY hanging your hat on "asking and making them claim VT is helpful" then you should have been asking EVERYONE, unless you had particular scumreads. That's why I ask, because that logic that you gave wasn't draz-specific, yet your question WAS draz-specific. There's a disconnect there, that I felt like would be addressed if you actually thought he was scum. I think asking ONE person this thing that you think is good to get answers to is weird, because you SHOULD be thinking it's good to ask every person in the game that. It's divided into three parts: 1) Meta-talk on Kei 2) stuff on v7/DP 3) Explanation of thought process to DP 1) He really doesn't say anything here. I think he's capable of doing this as town though, and he mentions that he's not very big on meta. This is fine. 2) This starts to get a bit weird, and I can't follow the logic at all. He says v7 is sticking out to him, and then talks about the DP situation for the entire paragraph. 3) This strikes me as a defensive impulse. I dont' understand why austin would get defensive here or really bother to explain his actions when no one was suspecting him for it. Overall, austin's D1 play this game is more active, and I haven't seen it before and don't know what to make of it. However, I do find him slightly scummy because of the above post and want some answers. Wat? You "want some answers"? You didn't ask any questions...
See the spoilered post above for full thought process and why I pick out v7 and also now keirathi, when I comb back over the DP stuff. They didn't vote, they sort of dawdled around commenting on the situation and then left. Not as invested in attacking DP as iamperfection with the early call-out and vote, didn't follow-up with final thoughts like you did later. They just stand out compared to the other people who commented.
(3) is me not liking what I think is bad logic. But I can understand why some of my questions may sound odd at times, and that's the explanation. It's not relevant overall, but I don't want to leave it til postgame. I'm uncertain how you find it "defensive," as it just explains why I asked a slightly odd question. Nobody called me scummy for that, nobody even pointed it out except in DP's answer he kind of joked it off, like it wasn't a serious question. That spoiler explains why the question was serious.
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See what happens when I don't explain my full thought process in spoilers!
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I was focused on the portion of the post that was directed at me. I'll look over hapa as a whole later.
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On October 22 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:18 austinmcc wrote: See what happens when I don't explain my full thought process in spoilers! nuh uh sweetie, this is what happens when people don't read and process what's been written properly. In my longish post having read the thread for the first time I said: Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:vaderseven - for lack of content, firstly. But more tellingly for the manner of his posts. He mixes in the cute little posts - "what do you want to know about mes" and the little fun facts about his rolling mafia. In between those posts, though, are sarcastic and patronising posts that are really easy for scum to make because it makes them look like they know what's going on without actually have to contribute anything. which is basically what you were saying about the DP situation but worded slightly differently, and it's what I had taken from your posts. Maybe it was easier for me to understand as I'd read similar things from the DP affair as you had. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan.
What do you make of keirathi's post in the middle of the DP stuff?
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On October 22 2012 05:50 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 05:38 austinmcc wrote:On October 22 2012 05:32 marvellosity wrote:On October 22 2012 05:18 austinmcc wrote: See what happens when I don't explain my full thought process in spoilers! nuh uh sweetie, this is what happens when people don't read and process what's been written properly. In my longish post having read the thread for the first time I said: On October 21 2012 21:03 marvellosity wrote:vaderseven - for lack of content, firstly. But more tellingly for the manner of his posts. He mixes in the cute little posts - "what do you want to know about mes" and the little fun facts about his rolling mafia. In between those posts, though, are sarcastic and patronising posts that are really easy for scum to make because it makes them look like they know what's going on without actually have to contribute anything. which is basically what you were saying about the DP situation but worded slightly differently, and it's what I had taken from your posts. Maybe it was easier for me to understand as I'd read similar things from the DP affair as you had. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. What do you make of keirathi's post in the middle of the DP stuff? I'm not exactly sure. A couple of posts later in his filter he explains he was just calling out bullshit and didn't read anything alignment-y from it. But then if that's the case, then the contributions were just pointless and not really contributions. I think Kei is playing pretty scummily - but what gives me pause is in his recent post, he just told town he doesn't really have any reads. Given he's under some pressure, it makes little sense for a scum Kei to do that. But then I find myself going around in stupid little wifom circles. What do you think? Yet to reread his full filter after that spoilered bit. I've give him a full look later tonight.
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I am in favor of anyone who finds v7 voting v7. I am in favor of anyone who doesn't find v7 scummy either voting or not voting v7, but if they vote, doing it because they're purely sheeping.
I do not see why there should be a clock on v7, except for the activity/modkill clock. If you find him scummy, you should be voting him. If you don't, then how is he magically scummy because x number of hours has passed. Judge for yourself whether his conduct and his absence is scummy or not, but a couple more hours of absence shouldn't lead to a different read imo.
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On October 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote: austin, I'd like to hear what you (and anyone else) has to say about Kei before I get my voting shoes on.
In a 9 player game, having 1 player who basically refuses to give us anything to hold him accountable to (i.e. reads) it's a fucking liability.
Actually I'd really like to hear what drazak has to say about Keirathi. Gonna be more or less away for a few hours but I saw this and gave him a cursory read.
He continuously responds to some of the same stuff over and over. I don't make anything of that, but it's the biggest takeaway I have from his filter "People keep bringing up the same things, he keeps addressing those concerns and dismissing them." I dunno where that fits into his normal behavior, but it's null to me. That's ... about it? My biggest takeaway from my filter is that I have this thought about him and it's not alignment-determinative.
I'd like to hear what he thinks about DeePgate overall, not about DP himself but about the rest of us who interacted with him. And hopefully there's enough recent action that he can comment on someone.
I agree that not having anything to hold someone accountable to is a liability, but I don't want to vote someone for being a liability right now. I'll think more about his earlier response, but right now I'm happier with a v7 lynch than keirathi?
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On October 22 2012 09:30 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 09:22 iamperfection wrote:On October 22 2012 09:21 Keirathi wrote:On October 22 2012 09:19 iamperfection wrote: I was under the impression from my first newbie game that Keriathi was a very good player so his statements about not having any reads bug the fuck out of me. I don't get why he doesn't want to throw shit out there even if he dosen't feel particularly strong about it. Maybe its cause i have the opposite approach usually saying whatever i think but i hold him to higher standard then i do draz so his stupid shit dosent fly with me so ill say scum.
Austin and Z-bo have been sharing a lot so i would say town for now.
and even though you didn't ask I'm null on you. i'll never trust you after are first meeting. You remember that I replaced into that game and had 2.5 days worth of information already, right? Such a completely different scenario :o i was trying to give you a compliment sort of A complement by calling me scum? LOL Anyways, I always find it extremely hard to get a solid grasp on anyone in day 1. And I've almost gotten lynched for it like 3 times. I mean, I know it's my fault, bu it just gets extremely tiring. But I'm not going to force reads that I don't believe in either. I tried that before and got called out too. I would rather be indecisive than pretend to be decisive and be wrong. D1 this game is different than D1 in other games. At this point, we'd be past D1 in a normal game.
Moreover, it's a very small game. We have 9 players. 1 of those 9 is AWOL.
Coming from one person who is normally awful at participating and being active D1...this isn't a game where we can afford it.
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Catching up now, but wanted to throw something out here. It may be anti-town, but I don't quite think it is.
I want to lynch someone. Maybe I'm bloodthirsty, maybe I agree that it's easier to work with flips, maybe I just want the game to move forward so we can actually play mafia instead of D1 hand-holding or whatever it is we're up to. But I would like to lynch a player, sooner, rather than later. I think there are benefits and drawbacks to both town and scum if we let D1 drag on forever, and probably only drawbacks to hosts. As much as I want to keep swapping votes around and see how quickly blazinghand can give updated votecounts...we're not making the setup work for us. We're just dithering around and doing very little.
So I propose we lynch a player. Right now, the player that I want to lynch is v7, see vote. I will look closer at keirathi and hapa while at work today, and going to look marv over as well. If I want to lynch any of them more than v7, then I'll swap my vote and try to drum up support. But this is getting silly and we're all LETTING it get silly.
I would like others' thoughts on this. I don't think an infinite-length D1 actually helps us, and I don't think it makes everyone invested in the game. Look at how lazy most of the thread is, because there's no pressure to do anything. Don't want to contribute? Okay. Just contribute tomorrow, deadline is infinite, no problems guys. That is TRUE, but it's crap, and it's not useful to us imo.
btw, apart from my normal paranoia, this is one thing that makes me suspicious of marv. I know he doesn't like to play setup games, but I would expect townmarv to be a little more bloodthirsty, be pushing someone a little more, and not be willing to play infinite D1 pattycake.
Am I the only one with this thought? Are people just worried to type it out because "let's lynch someone NOW, instead of later with more information" feels like it might be anti-town?
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On October 23 2012 00:36 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 00:20 Z-BosoN wrote: I'm onboard with austin, especially after v7's response. He did a very poor job at making a contribution. Said he would read thread and reply and so far has done naught. He's fitting the category of "A liability who has a fair chance of popping scum" and I'm up to kill him right now. And now I don't want to lynch him at all. The him here is in reference to v7?
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Noting for the record that DP is a very strong town read for me right now. I think I like this train of thought on Z-BosoN. Will add him to the list of people to look at after lunch.
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