EPTYes or No.
If not then please refute what I just wrote up there.
This goes to everybody else too.
Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 85
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Yes or No. If not then please refute what I just wrote up there. This goes to everybody else too. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I'm also considering lynching you. And austin and Hiro. | ||
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
okay that was a lie, it wouldn't make me feel nearly as good as lynching drazerk. but it would make me feel pretty good. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On October 11 2012 10:41 JingleHell wrote: By the way, for anyone listening to Gonzaw... you do realize he claimed this guy, right? Yeah you are right. I claimed a guy that wants to kill both Chell and GlaDOS But it's not like I claimed I also want to kill Chell and GlaDOS as well isn't? ...oh ....oh wait ....oh that's right, my role does want me to kill both Chell and GlaDOS Sorry to disappoint you Jingle. Also, if you want to base your case against me on "flavour", I can completely turn it around and destroy it: Wheatly: 1)Wants to kill both Chell and GlaDOS to take over Aperture labs and be an addicted ruler of stuff 2)Doesn't give a shit about Black Mesa 3)Doesn't have anything against Doug Rattman, or P-Body, or Atlas, or Cave Johnson, or other personality cores, or the companion cube 4)Isn't GlaDOS, and isn't part of the Aperture Science Team at all and doesn't give a shit about them succedding My role: 1)I have to kill both Chell and GlaDOS to take over Aperture labs with scum 2)I am not a Black Mesa member 3)My win-condition does not contradict the win condition of town 4)I am not an Aperture Science member At worst you can make the argument that I am a 3rd party independant of town, RS and BS (that actually would have fitted in better, for instance what austin said about me winning the game once Chell and GlaDOS are dead), but not that I'm scum, at least not based on the flavour of my role. Nice try though. Obvious attempt to discredit me with faulty logic is obvious though | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
I'm going to uni and will be back after deadline, so GG if I die and good luck to Kei/etc with their night actions. TO SPACE!! | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Damn timezones. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
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Mattchew
United States5684 Posts
I really doubt JH is red | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) The KP number stuff from yesterday (2) You claim to be a "traitor survivor." But really what you claimed is just...survivor. You said you win with red scum OR town if you're alive. I don't see how this "traitor" thing comes in. You say "start supporting scum." What does that even MEAN? The example you provided, a lynch that's down to 2 red scum, 2 townies, and yourself, would mean that red scum wins OUTRIGHT if you're actually a traitor (3 scum vs 2 townies). Yet you say you could lynch a townie and then win with red scum. (3) More numbers stuff...you have been so certain of 2 red scum 2 black scum. But in the example you provided in your wincon, that lynch situation involves 2 living red scum, when we lynched red scum D1. The example you're using to show your towniness is impossible under your 2 red/2 black hypothesis (4)You say that once you're a "traitor survivor," you can win with town? But you're claiming a survivor wincon, which is (always?) 3P and not town. Townies win with town. Survivors win by themselves for surviving. (5)You give this ... flavor defense last night. Wheatly wants to kill GLaDOS and Chell, Wheatly doesn't want anything to do with Aperture or Black Mesa, etc. etc. BUT YOU CLAIMED THAT YOU CAN WIN WITH APERTURE. Your flavor defense is completely inconsistent with the wincon you claimed. (6) Happy almost-Birthday! The KP number stuff yesterday caught my eye, but you noticed it too. However, that lynch situation you present in your roleclaim ALSO doesn't fit within your 2 red/2 black hypothesis. Either you're making up wincons or you don't seem to actually think it's 2 red/2 black like you claim, because you keep giving situations that are impossible within that setup. If you're making up wincons...why? Why say you're a traitor survivor? You say it should make town listen to you more. So you want to make stuff up for more influence? Or maybe you'd make it up to WIFOM yourself out of the possible "Why isn't gonzaw dead yet?" argument? Mementoss figured you'd be a guaranteed N1 shot as town. Nobody else has pushed that idea, and I don't really agree with it, but that could be a reason to shoot mementoss, so he wouldn't push on that weird angle on later days. "I win with scum, so why would they shoot me?" provides great cover to that argument he was making if anyone picked it back up. Could also be this argument you present of wanting to win with town and be town MVP, trying to keep scum off you until you can figure things out, but...lying to town in order to try and be the best townie sounds like an awful plan. If you're not making up wincons, then don't seem to actually believe in 2 red/2 black, because you keep presenting examples that contradict that. Why would you be adamant about 2/2 if you don't believe it? I can't think of a town reason for that. It just sounds like you're trying to hide either a third scum teammate if you die, or hide yourself if your scum teammate dies. 2 red scum gone, hold KP, try and get town targeting black scum, and then POOF spring KP on them later? Is there another reason to hammer the 2/2 point home if you don't really believe it? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
2 red/2 black feels like a small amount of scum compred to all the roles town had, and to the chance that red can hit black or black can DT/hit red. 3 red/3 black also feels unlikely, that's so much. Even with all the protection we've had claimed, game would be almost half scum. However, we've had... 1 red scum and 2 black scum die, compared to 4 townies. So in terms of what we've actually SEEN, it's been almost 50/50 in terms of scum and townie flips. Even though we've got a small sample size, that points towards something closer to 50/50 scum/town, even if not 6 scum. 2 red/3 black is what I've been thinking about mainly. It makes the #/2 condition meaningless, unless Gonzaw's wincon is real (Or maybe he's just twisting it and is just pure traitor? That gives an option for 3 red scum, the KP number to matter, but still can explain why his claim doesn't actually ring true). But looking at ghost/crossfire, their only KP was ghost swapping crossfire around to crowbar players, and only if an action was used on crossfire. That's not much oomph to get them in the clear. If they had a third player, maybe with some other conditional KP we haven't seen, then that feels like it would balance out the fact that red scum have factional KP AND had some KP in the form of GLaDOS's JOAT roles. 3 red/2 black seems unlikely to me, but also works for a 5 scum setup. If red started with 2 KP and a role like GLaDOS, I don't see how the black team would be balanced. Yes, they're the less threatening team, but they're both down a man AND lack non-conditional KP? If there's no sort of role for a scum that has a chance of winning with another faction, then I don't see this being an option. Thinking about Gonzaw as pure traitor might also work for 2 red/2 black though. Red starts with only 1 kp, but has powerful roles, and can pick up a third member later in the game to add extra KP once townies start getting confirmed? And it gets you over the 4 scum mark that feels low for a multi-faction game with many protective roles, while providing a twist a la...foolishness being resurrected in Aperture 1. So I'm thinking 2 red/3 black or 2 red/2 black + traitor. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I've got keirathi and snb as town. I don't think they'd both be scum pulling this stunt, especially as there shouldn't be boatloads of scum left. My one caveat here is + Show Spoiler + I could see the mechanic being interesting of having a scum player and a town player direct each other's actions. In that case, either scum snb gets an anti-roleblock or scum keirathi gets a bodyguard. Given that we've seen 0 town roleblockers (I guess mementoss? But his rb is balanced with protection that night), mafia doesn't really GET anything from an anti-roleblock. However, scum could be happy with a bodyguard, in case of getting a shot bussed back at them or Drazerk's KP. This leads me to believe that IF they are opposite alignments, keirathi is the scum player based on that setup stuff, whereas based on their play he's been quite towny since D1 and snb has done more lurking. So I don't really like the opposite alignment arguments, as the setup would favor keirathi scum and that feels like it contradicts what's happened. I have JH as town. Sticking with that read. Went and read Mad Men to see what scum JH played like, and it feels different from this game. Present JH seems much more like PTP3 JH, who was town, pick a player partway through, tunnel them and tunnel them and tunnel them, without being concerned about other stuff. Mad Men JH seemed to spread his suspicions around more, and also did a lot more...interacting with the thread? Giving a read here, casting a suspicion there, callign someone out on this or that. In PTP3 JH was very focused on Grush, and here he feels entirely focused on Gonzaw, not really doing anything with other lynch candidates. So I'm down to Hiro, Gonzaw, Mattchew. Gonzaw's wincon claim doesn't work for townGonzaw. Either it's entirely fake or it covers up some other wincon he has, and it doesn't jive with his 2 red/2 black theory, that he appears to be convinced of. As far as red vs. black (or red traitor) on Gonzaw, two things push me towards red:
So I've got Gonzaw either red, or traitor in a 2/2 + traitor setup, and being a part of red once he defects. If we're in a 2/2 + 1 setup, that means there's another red scum. Between Hiro and Mattchew, I like Hiro more for red. Why? Mattchew has claimed to bus. And while I don't think we've had an action that CONFIRMS the bussing, if scum had a busser I see him using it differently. If scum can bus, all they would have to do is shoot a player that nobody is likely to protect or anything, then bus that guy with the real target. All the real protection goes onto the guy that nobody was going to protect, the shot goes on the key towny. Bussing would be absurdly powerful in scum hands because of that. Mattchew also claimed a shot last night when we had no deaths. So either red scum held KP, matt claimed, and he's not been making the best use of his bussing power, or he's not red. That means HiroPro would be red. Vote iamperfection D1, just kind of coast for the rest of the game. Redirector, if a real role, also just feels useful to scum. Redirect a DT check on you, redirect a track or watch on you, gives you nice cover. Even if Matt likes to bus scumbuddies, between the claimed shot and almost certainly being a bus driver, he's less likely to be red. If we're in a 2/3 setup, then Gonzaw red and we've got a black scum remaining. In that case, while Hiro is more likely red scum than Mattchew, I think Mattchew would be more likely black scum than Hiro. scumMatt is disinterested. He hasn't been super active since D1, and there was that bit where he was going to make a case on hiro, going to make a case on hiro, but never did. It's again just disinterest in the game, laziness, promising cases but not making them. blackmatt could have been shot last night, so the claimed NK doesn't help him be not-black like it helps him be not-red. A veteran on black would help them survive, and a bus driver on black gets them another kind of sometimes-KP. Help keep shots off of scumbuddies, and get other factions killed. He bussed gonzaw<-->ghost D1, and also I could see him thinking last night that keirathi was getting shot, and if he ACTUALLY thinks hiro is scum but is too lazy to write up the case he promised, then bussing hiro<-->keirathi is a great choice. Keirathi might get shot, shot goes on hiro, and if hiro flips scum then mattchew looks good (if hiro flips town lazyscummatt doesn't have to make the case, lol). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 12 2012 03:46 strongandbig wrote: gonzaw only counts as red scum after one red scum is dead assuming hes telling the truth about his wincon so that wouldn't make the #/2 condition count. True. I don't see him telling the truth about his wincon in ANY scenario though. I think he's either making it up entirely OR he's twisting his actual wincon, which could just be straight traitor. Although traitors usually need a condition to swap sides...so, hmmm. Maybe the overexplanation is that he only has to kill Chell to be a traitor? I dunno if that makes sense storywise, but it would mean that he wasn't taking a risk talking about Chell being in the game, and he's seen GLaDOS flip so there's no risk just slotting her in and making the condition feel more townie. I should be checking thread until deadline, but I'll be driving home for part of it, and frankly I'm a little brain dead from these last couple posts, so I'm going to get out of thread for an hour or so and clear my head. There was a lot of talk last night about who should be using actions on what. I don't think we need to explicitly say where actions are going, at least not until right at deadline if anything. I WOULD like to request protection from EITHER keirathi or snb. Just one of you. That way if I'm wrong in my read and others are right, and JH is scum, we don't get a mess where he visits me and I die and he tries to WIFOM things. Heck, even if he's town scum could be shooting at me tonight in order to make JH look bad. gonzaw can just say "Yup, JH visited austinmcc, lynch lynch lynch." Because you guys double target, that would leave the other free to protect someone else, so I'm not tying up all protection and we still have both the second bodyguard target and a potential bus driver to hopefully stop shots with. I don't think Mattchew should claim his targets early, but if only ONE of you two would claim a protect on me (and do it), then the other one is still free to share the bodyguard love around with an unknown target and keep the threat of blocked NKs alive and well. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
I'm totes down for a Jingle lynch. | ||
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Hassybaby
United Kingdom10823 Posts
On October 12 2012 03:44 Hassybaby wrote: Grey's gone home, so just in case he's not around fort he day post can you make sure you have sent me any night actions as well as him please? Much appreciated | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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