• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:40
CEST 03:40
KST 10:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals7Code S RO12 Preview: Maru, Trigger, Rogue, NightMare12Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, sOs, Reynor, Solar15[ASL19] Ro8 Preview: Unyielding3Official Ladder Map Pool Update (April 28, 2025)17
Community News
Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025)13Weekly Cups (May 5-11): New 2v2 Champs1Maru & Rogue GSL RO12 interviews: "I think the pressure really got to [trigger]"5Code S Season 1 - Maru & Rogue advance to RO80Code S Season 1 - Cure & Reynor advance to RO84
StarCraft 2
General
Map Pool Suggestion: Throwback ERA Dark to begin military service on May 13th (2025) How does the number of casters affect your enjoyment of esports? I hope balance council is prepping final balance 2024/25 Off-Season Roster Moves
Tourneys
[GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group B Monday Nights Weeklies Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament [GSL 2025] Code S:Season 1 - RO12 - Group A $1,250 WardiTV May [May 6th-May 18th]
Strategy
[G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void Mutation # 472 Dead Heat Mutation # 471 Delivery Guaranteed Mutation # 470 Certain Demise
Brood War
General
[ASL19] Ro4 Preview: Storied Rivals BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battlenet Game Lobby Simulator Twitch StarCraft Holiday Bash (UMS) Artosis vs Ogre Zerg [The Legend Continues]
Tourneys
[ASL19] Semifinal A BSL Nation Wars 2 - Grand Finals - Saturday 21:00 [ASL19] Ro8 Day 4 [USBL Spring 2025] Groups cast
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player Creating a full chart of Zerg builds [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread What do you want from future RTS games? Nintendo Switch Thread Grand Theft Auto VI Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Books] Wool by Hugh Howey Surprisingly good films/Hidden Gems
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Why 5v5 Games Keep Us Hooked…
TrAiDoS
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
SECOND COMMING
XenOsky
WombaT’s Old BW Terran Theme …
WombaT
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
BW PvZ Balance hypothetic…
Vasoline73
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12809 users

Aperture Mafia 2: Portal Edition - Page 84

Forum Index > TL Mafia
Post a Reply
Prev 1 82 83 84 85 86 95 Next
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 00:45 GMT
#1661
Yeah, S&B should WIFOM his save to try and save tonight's mafia shot.
strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
October 11 2012 00:46 GMT
#1662
You mean you're going to point me at Matt?

Let me think for a minute
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 01:02 GMT
#1663
On October 11 2012 09:31 gonzaw wrote:
Yo Jingle once you are done doing your hosting stuff from Looney Mafia chime in.


Well, we know someone is lying about their role and/or alignment, and I've got my money on you. That said, my reads are shot to shit right now. Been a screwy couple of days, so I'm only partway caught up right now.

So yeah. I still want you dead. You've played anti-town, and your "admission" of an anti-town wincon screams "daredevil gambit".

Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 11 2012 01:20 GMT
#1664
On October 11 2012 09:46 strongandbig wrote:
You mean you're going to point me at Matt?

Let me think for a minute

Yea, that's what I meant.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 01:22 GMT
#1665
So you are still tunneling me huh?

How about the fact that I successfully determined ghost visited Hiro on N2 when the swap occurred before ghost claimed he did? Am I scumbuddies with ghost or did I get a lucky guess? Or maybe I'm so smart that I saw the ghost-Hiro swap before everybody else and correctly guessed what happened that night in order to make that claim?
Also how about the fact that coincidentally my check on austin last night didn't contradict anything? You think I knew what austin's role was before claiming he visited Hiro/Keirathi? Or did I get lucky again?
Or maybe I am a tracker BS/RS?
How about all the "crumbs" I left all over the place in that explanation I made in my post?

You are telling me I planned claiming that Nisani visited Mementos ever since N2 (or D3 if you get picky)? That is a hell of a fake-breadcrumb for claiming something that doesn't make sense.

Do you want me to believe you think the answer to all these questions is "yeah you faked that you scum"? I don't think I could quite believe that unless you make a very good argument.

You have all the time in the world this N4 to determine why I am scum Jingle, so I'd advice you use it and not go lurking/inactive


You also better visit austin tonight Jingle, and austin better not drop dead

...yeah I think that's kind of a flaw with this whole "track Jingles" plan, dunno how we'll solve it. Having a medic on austin is a possibility.
If Jingle is scum and decides to visit someone else, I'll see him visiting him. If he decides to not shoot, I'll see him not visit anybody. If he decides to kill austin and then claim "obviously scum killed austin since they knew I was visiting him!", then austin will be saved and there will be no night kill, so everything fine, another "free" day to lynch scum.
Again the worst case scenario is that he's that Framer-GF.

You also haven't answered my question: Why did you drop by just to claim and disappear and paid no attention to the post where I claimed?
From your POV I was scum fake-claiming to create chaos; and also avoid getting lynched and have most people believe me (which I did! If I was scum and you town you would have been pretty terrible at your job Jingle), so why didn't you at least mention my claim?
Again, it was a gigantic post filled with colors and blue bolded asterisks all over. It was impossible to miss...like at all.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 11 2012 01:30 GMT
#1666
@S&B:

I recommend that you protect gonzaw, so that his track goes through and we at least have some kind of information. If he's not town tracker, then our only town information role was a watcher and a super conditional uncontrollable Role Cop.
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 01:41 GMT
#1667
By the way, for anyone listening to Gonzaw... you do realize he claimed this guy, right?

gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 01:50 GMT
#1668
On October 11 2012 10:30 Keirathi wrote:
@S&B:

I recommend that you protect gonzaw, so that his track goes through and we at least have some kind of information. If he's not town tracker, then our only town information role was a watcher and a super conditional uncontrollable Role Cop.


But what if austin dies tonight and I get that Jingle visited austin?
I'm 100% sure that's what will happen if there is 0 medic saves on austin and austin is not RS (whether JH is RS or not).

If I am to track Jingle austin should be protected or scum should fear he's protected so scum doesn't shoot him.
I also need to be protected to get my check...
And matt needs to be protected because he's Chell and all that shit.

....yeah we are short on medics tonight :/
WIFOMing between all of us may be the better option (as long as S&B+Kei don't target the same person).


Try again Jingle

Strike nº1

Once I get to Strike nº3 I'll 100% ignore everything you say and tunnel you until you die. Well, I may not ignore things that I deem important to try and get you lynched of course.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 01:51 GMT
#1669
Oh and this isn't a harmless threat like in N2, I swear it over my sweaty non-existant personality core balls.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 01:52 GMT
#1670
Aww, the god of setup speculation doesn't like being called out on Wheatley not being such a good guy?

And he goes back to the tired old threats of tunneling me till I'm dead. What happened to the last time you were going to do that? Oh wait, you went back to reading me as town, because you're scum, and I seemed like the safest person to call confirmed, since even scum need to do that occasionally and nobody wanted to listen.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 01:54 GMT
#1671
Strike nº2
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 02:08 GMT
#1672
On October 11 2012 10:54 gonzaw wrote:
Strike nº2

gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 02:42 GMT
#1673
Strike nº3

Okay people, tomorrow we lynch JingleHell no matter what.
(I want that big for emphasis)

It should be obvious by now the reason why.
He cares shit about the game and cares shit about finding scum. He doesn't even care about trying to get me lynched and convincing people I'm scum even though I'm his "biggest scumread" ever since Day.Mother.Fucking.One.
I'm his greatest read yet he can't find the time or effort to attack the points I make or the points other people make for me being town. He doesn't give a shit he just wants to vote me as soon as D5 starts and survive as long as possible.

I "fake-claim" the most epic claim in mafia history and avoid getting lynched and get like 99% of the thread convinced I'm town (or at least not convinced I'm scum) except for the flipped scum ghost, and of course our friend Jingle here....but oh wait:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=72#1437
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=73#1454
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=73#1458
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=73#1459
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=74#1461
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=74#1464
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=74#1469

Why don't you CTRL+F "gonzaw" there?
Yep, I make that super claim yet he doesn't find the time and doesn't give enough shit to address it, even though it was this post here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&currentpage=71#1402

2nd post of the page? Check
Biggest post in the game? Check
It starts and ends with blue bolded asteriks so it's impossible to miss? Check
It has a million of colors and fonts and formats so it's impossible to miss if you skim it? Check

It is impossible Jingle missed it, yet he didn't mention it at all, even though he had enough time to post 7 times afterwards and greatly discuss his role.
You would have thought that trying to get your "Greatest scumread in all history of mafia" lynched would be the most important task in your book if it's near end-game and that player made a fantastic claim almost everybody fell for; not claiming out of nowhere and spending 100% of your effort trying to convince people your role can't be a scum role

You know what other thing? Yep, he spent those 7 posts of his explaining how his role can't belong to a Black Mesa member.
Any mention of Aperture Science? No.
Any mention about anything else at all? No
Did he give a shit about anything else other than his own survival? No
Just 7 posts explaining why his role is "overpowered" for a BS to have (or just as scum to have).
You know Jingle, you are right, that role is "OP" for scum to have, therefore the only explanation is that you are fake-claiming it and you have a different scum role.

Fuck the town read I had for most of this game, I won't stand up for more bullshit right now fearing Jingle is just a misled townie or some shit.
Jingle is a member of the Aperture Science Team and has to die

If you want speculation about whether he fake-claimed or not read this:

On October 10 2012 10:58 gonzaw wrote:
Hey....I had a thought, let's see where it goes:

What if Jingle is an Aperture Science Framer?.
He can choose what check/report can come from a player he chooses.
On N1 he chose Nisani and made it so he visited Mementos (if there is a framer role that wanted to frame Nisani it has to be from RS since BS didn't know Mementos would get killed due to their lack of factional KP and I think almost any KP whasoever), which explains my report.

Now, he claims he's "bulletproof guy that always visits austin at night to hide". He claimed this after I claimed tracker. If he's RS, he knows that I can track him at night now (and be un-RBeable and maybe bulletproof if Kei/S&B target me), so he could get instantly caught. To survive my reports he'd need to not shoot at night....which would be weird and still scummy if I say I'm going to track him.
Therefore he claimed a role that only visits austin at night and if I see him visit austin at night it "confirms" him as town if we believe what he told us...
...but what if he frames himself every night from now on and makes any track report from him say he visited austin? Even if he chooses to shoot someone unrelated at night (maybe Keirathi for instance), my track report will say he visited austin, therefore "confirming" his role, and of course justifying him living so long at night (i.e scum not killing him) since "scum wouldn't shoot a bulletproof hider".

Didn't really have a scum read on Jingle but fuck scumreads right now they didn't do me any good until now. Let's speculate!
What do you guys think of this possibility?

Granted austin could do something similar with a framer ability (i.e frame himself so he visits an "unrelated" target, someone different than who he shoots).

Meh, seems improbable that a framer can frame himself, but really...what other explanation could there be for my N1 report and the lack of "scummy" claims so far? (i.e claims that can be refuted, etc)


If you want some scum motivation for his actions this game read this:

On October 10 2012 12:33 gonzaw wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2012 12:06 austinmcc wrote:
Being "good ol' crazy town ANYONE" isn't necessarily scummy.


??
My point is that if he's scum he could act batshit crazy to stir off suspicion of iamperfection but have everybody ignore it since he'd act like that as town
However I've read some of his previous games (PTP3 for instance) so I can see him doing that as town as well.
Which is why I didn't really pay attention to it. It did give me more townie vibes than scummy vibes since it didn't really seem to push a scum agenda and if it did it was so obvious it wouldn't have worked at all.

Show nested quote +
I just...if he wants to create chaos why doesn't he keep it up? I'd think creating chaos AND getting called 100% town for it by someone would egg you on to do more.


One reason would be preservation like Keirathi said before.
If he's the sole remaining RS, who would benefit from the chaos he created if it gets him lynched? Black Mesa would benefit, that's it.
If he's the sole remaining RS it would make sense to just keep up whatever he's doing with me to "hide" in plain sight without having to do anything important all game (just accuse me, start a shitstorm with me every now and then, vote me and be desinterested of the rest of the game).

Well...if I put it like that it seems like he's super scummy...again the thing is that some of his posts and reasonings seemed genuine, and again he seemed to go against me because he genuinely thought I was scum rather than go against me to justify his vote/activity (at first, on N1-D2).

Show nested quote +
Instead, he's fallen back into what I recognize as town JH's pattern, based only on PTP3. His constant pushing on you this game feels like his constant pushing on Grush in that game. Pop in start of the day, vote, dip out. There are some differences in other areas, but I'm thinking those are improvements to some flaws rather than him playing differently because he's a different alignment this game.


Could be...or maybe not. I have no idea.


Oh, one more thing:
If JingleHell is scum this game I'm going to policy lynch or tunnel the hell out of everybody that tunnels me for more than 2 cycles without properly explaining themselves.
If he's scum no more "damn he could just be bad town" from me. Scum doing that to me pisses me off (specially when it works) since I feel they are taking advantage of me.
Townies doing that to me pisses me off as well because I can't realize if they are scum taking advantage of me (and also because of the whole in-game stuff).


If you want to convince yourself he's scum read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&user=159089

Also Keirathi and other people wrote plenty of shit about him and phrased it better than me (about his contributions and shit), so read that as well.

He might be BS, but his actions towards the D1 lynch where he tried to spout bullshit and chaos by disrupting the iamperfection lynch, never mentioning iamperfection at all even though he could have easily jumped on his lynch if he was a Black Mesa member, all point fingers towards him being RS instead

On October 10 2012 02:27 JingleHell wrote:
Also, if we have a vigi with bullets, confirming me tonight wouldn't be so bad.


Shit maybe he's even a scum vet like ghost is and wants us to waste a vig bullet if there is one.
...or he's just talking his ass off since every townie has already claimed by that point and nobody had claimed vig so he's 100% sure he can't get shot, since I'm sure he concluded that BS have no KP left.
Therefore why not try to catch a little bit more of town cred by suggesting someone shoots him at night?
Again, what would be the town motivation for that? If a vig shoots him the vig loses his bullet. Why would he want a vig to lose his bullet on D5 (this is not D1 people) instead of having the vig...I dunno SHOOT ME, HIS GREATEST SCUM READ EVER?????
Biggest contradiction of interests ever....

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention his claim is the safest claim in the game.
He claims he's bulletproof at night while austin is alive, and always visits austin at night, and does nothing else.
If that doesn't sound like the most convenient claim ever then I'll fucking tapdance naked on top of a bus going downhill.


You know what? I may not even track him tonight, he'll be dead by the D5 lynch and flip RS so no need to waste my track ability on him.
What I can do is try to use my track ability to maybe confirm some "townie" players who claimed night actions didn't lie about their role trying to find the remaining BS if there is one.
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 02:43 GMT
#1674
Mattchew, you have my permission to bus Jingle with whoever you think Jingle will shoot tonight.
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 02:46 GMT
#1675
I'ma pull out a gonzaw defense for that wall of text. I don't remember that, I don't agree with that, you didn't understand me, why do you want me dead, I don't want to play mafia anymore.

Did I do it right?
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 02:46 GMT
#1676
You don't fuck with me all game and get away with it unharmed.

You'll be terminated scum.
You will be terminated
gonzaw
Profile Joined December 2011
Uruguay4911 Posts
October 11 2012 02:47 GMT
#1677
And in huge contrast to you, I will achieve it
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 02:49 GMT
#1678
On October 11 2012 11:46 gonzaw wrote:
You don't fuck with me all game and get away with it unharmed.

You'll be terminated scum.
You will be terminated


You can't honestly tell me this is a town mentality? Where one of his biggest (if utterly inconsistent, like most of them) town reads is concerned? Revenge because he's tired of being accused of being scum, when he claims a scummy role, a scummy wincon, and somehow it's strange I've thought he was scum all game, and he should push for the lynch of his townread?

No, that's scum behavior. Nuff said. I've made cases against him over and over, I've beat my head against the wall arguing it, over and over. And I guess he's decided that he should freak out and go for some balls out chainsaw defense.

Lynch him, already.
Keirathi
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4679 Posts
October 11 2012 02:55 GMT
#1679
Hey Jingle, where were you all day while I was trying to get you lynched?
My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!! -ShiaoPi
JingleHell
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States11308 Posts
October 11 2012 02:58 GMT
#1680
On October 11 2012 11:55 Keirathi wrote:
Hey Jingle, where were you all day while I was trying to get you lynched?


Otherwise occupied. RL shit, mostly.
Prev 1 82 83 84 85 86 95 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2025 GSL S1 - Ro12 Group A
CranKy Ducklings154
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft546
RuFF_SC2 159
NeuroSwarm 67
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 21274
Artosis 847
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever99
Counter-Strike
Fnx 519
Stewie2K238
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox618
C9.Mang0586
PPMD52
ChuDatz3
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor151
Other Games
summit1g9447
shahzam701
WinterStarcraft449
Maynarde445
JimRising 364
Day[9].tv301
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick959
BasetradeTV213
StarCraft 2
ESL.tv102
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 71
• davetesta43
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Eskiya23 12
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4374
Other Games
• Day9tv301
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
8h 20m
Afreeca Starleague
8h 20m
Snow vs Soulkey
WardiTV Invitational
9h 20m
PiGosaur Monday
22h 20m
GSL Code S
1d 7h
ByuN vs Rogue
herO vs Cure
Replay Cast
1d 22h
GSL Code S
2 days
Classic vs Reynor
GuMiho vs Maru
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
GSL Code S
3 days
[ Show More ]
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
SOOP
4 days
Online Event
5 days
Clem vs ShoWTimE
herO vs MaxPax
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL Nation Wars Season 2
PiG Sty Festival 6.0
Calamity Stars S2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
ASL Season 19
YSL S1
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
China & Korea Top Challenge
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
2025 GSL S1
Heroes 10 EU
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025
ESL Pro League S21

Upcoming

NPSL S3
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
2025 GSL S2
DreamHack Dallas 2025
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.