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On October 02 2012 06:49 ghost_403 wrote:
@nisani: Then why did he put more time in it than the case against you, which is something that he said on this page is real?
I spent a whopping 5 minutes finding Matt's first posts in each of his games. So yes, I did spent 5 minutes more effort deciding if there was an actual pattern or if he just randomly says whatever he feels like in his first post.
Going through Nisani's meta, what exactly would I be looking for to confirm my feeling that he has too much information in this game? Even if I spent hours carefully reading all of his games, anything I find would just be colored with confirmation bias.
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On October 02 2012 06:41 Nisani201 wrote:
Ghost, Kei's case on mattchew wasn't supposed to be a genuine case-- he abandoned it quickly because it wasn't real >_>
That's not entirely true. It was genuinely things that I found scummy. So instead of just saying "Hey Matt, why did you do that?" I made it into a case.
His response felt townie, and there was no pattern with his first posts, so I unvoted. It was weak, but it was a real question.
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@ghost:
I'm still curious how you can think I was putting in "too much effort to be town", when you have first-hand seen the amount of effort I put in as a townie in your games.
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On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:Okay, finally seeing some differentiation in some of our early voters. Right now I'm liking ghost's recent outburst and he replaces nisani as the towniest of the three. I actually really like this point: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:32 ghost_403 wrote:
Why on earth would Keirathi put time and effort into a case against mattchew, then immediately abandon it for another lackluster case? Why wouldn't a town Keirathi, at the very least, spend a minute or two looking through Nisani's previous games if he's so convinced he's scum? There's a clear disparity between the amount of effort he's put in on the first and on the second, and I can't see Keirathi doing that as town. I was so focused on Keirathi's explanations for his mattchew vote that I overlooked this. It does seem off that the contrived case to get discussion going would have more work put into it, and some reliance on meta, when compared to keirathi's actual vote. Especially when players who have played with nisani said he seems townie based off past games.
A player has said he has seen nisani play disinterested as townie before (Mattchew). The only other person that has even given an opinion on him (rather than just regurgitating facts, such as you did in your iamperfection post), was gonzaw saying that Nisani could a bored townie. No frame of reference, just that it was his gut feeling.
[QUOTE]On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:For some reason it makes this post hang in my mind:
[QUOTE]On October 01 2012 15:22 Keirathi wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 01 2012 14:58 HiroPro wrote:
Do you think that keirathi would make points like this as scum? They read pretty townie to me.
[QUOTE]On September 30 2012 13:01 Keirathi wrote:
For completeness sake, though, I did go back through all of your games up to Movie Star, and the only pattern was that you seem to claim town if you get into the thread early, and otherwise say you are catching up and reading the thread in your first post  [/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE]
While I appreciate the read, this in particular shouldn't give you a townie read on me. Go read the post game comments from GSL Open Mini Mafia. I specifically mentioned that I spent a lot of time in filters and digging through meta to strengthen (or crush) cases that I was planning to make, even though I was scum.
[/QUOTE]
Keirathi notes that he went way back into Mattchew's games to be complete, for the case that was intended to generate discussion. Keirathi notes that he spends a lot of time in filters even as scum. [quote]
What point are you trying to make here. Am I not taking time to look through Nisani's filter, therefor I'm scum? Or am I scum for looking through Matt's? They seem pretty contradictory.
[QUOTE]On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:
But now it's just 5 minutes:[QUOTE]On October 02 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 02 2012 06:49 ghost_403 wrote:
@nisani: Then why did he put more time in it than the case against you, which is something that he said on this page is real?[/QUOTE]
I spent a whopping 5 minutes finding Matt's first posts in each of his games. So yes, I did spent 5 minutes more effort deciding if there was an actual pattern or if he just randomly says whatever he feels like in his first post.
Going through Nisani's meta, what exactly would I be looking for to confirm my feeling that he has too much information in this game? Even if I spent hours carefully reading all of his games, anything I find would just be colored with confirmation bias.[/QUOTE]
I'm assuming keirathi didn't time himself, but this + the explanation of the mattchew case/vote + things like this + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town , so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it. How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline. You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta.
##Vote: Keirathi
[/QUOTE]
No, you know what. Fuck it, I'm tired of answering the same things over and over again. Nothing I can say about those incidents is going to change your mind.
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EBWOP: Formatting
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:Okay, finally seeing some differentiation in some of our early voters. Right now I'm liking ghost's recent outburst and he replaces nisani as the towniest of the three. I actually really like this point: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:32 ghost_403 wrote:
Why on earth would Keirathi put time and effort into a case against mattchew, then immediately abandon it for another lackluster case? Why wouldn't a town Keirathi, at the very least, spend a minute or two looking through Nisani's previous games if he's so convinced he's scum? There's a clear disparity between the amount of effort he's put in on the first and on the second, and I can't see Keirathi doing that as town. I was so focused on Keirathi's explanations for his mattchew vote that I overlooked this. It does seem off that the contrived case to get discussion going would have more work put into it, and some reliance on meta, when compared to keirathi's actual vote. Especially when players who have played with nisani said he seems townie based off past games. A player has said he has seen nisani play disinterested as townie before (Mattchew). The only other person that has even given an opinion on him (rather than just regurgitating facts, such as you did in your iamperfection post), was gonzaw saying that Nisani could a bored townie. No frame of reference, just that it was his gut feeling. On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:For some reason it makes this post hang in my mind: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 15:22 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 14:58 HiroPro wrote:Do you think that keirathi would make points like this as scum? They read pretty townie to me. On September 30 2012 13:01 Keirathi wrote:For completeness sake, though, I did go back through all of your games up to Movie Star, and the only pattern was that you seem to claim town if you get into the thread early, and otherwise say you are catching up and reading the thread in your first post While I appreciate the read, this in particular shouldn't give you a townie read on me. Go read the post game comments from GSL Open Mini Mafia. I specifically mentioned that I spent a lot of time in filters and digging through meta to strengthen (or crush) cases that I was planning to make, even though I was scum. Keirathi notes that he went way back into Mattchew's games to be complete, for the case that was intended to generate discussion. Keirathi notes that he spends a lot of time in filters even as scum. What point are you trying to make here. Am I not taking time to look through Nisani's filter, therefor I'm scum? Or am I scum for looking through Matt's? They seem pretty contradictory. On October 02 2012 07:08 austinmcc wrote:But now it's just 5 minutes: Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 06:54 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 06:49 ghost_403 wrote:
@nisani: Then why did he put more time in it than the case against you, which is something that he said on this page is real? I spent a whopping 5 minutes finding Matt's first posts in each of his games. So yes, I did spent 5 minutes more effort deciding if there was an actual pattern or if he just randomly says whatever he feels like in his first post. Going through Nisani's meta, what exactly would I be looking for to confirm my feeling that he has too much information in this game? Even if I spent hours carefully reading all of his games, anything I find would just be colored with confirmation bias. I'm assuming keirathi didn't time himself, but this + the explanation of the mattchew case/vote + things like this + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 01:10 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:58 austinmcc wrote:If you want me to keep looking at you, fine. What's up with this? On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads. On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote:On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town , so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it. How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline. You've been doing more in thread, but it seems like you're getting on JH for saying he's doing exactly what you've said you're doing. Why is it fine for you to wait to scumhunt until you've got enough to make a case, but it's not alright for JH to wait before pushing someone? The difference is there's less than 1/4 of the day left, and JH hadn't done much at all so far besides making excuses as to why he isn't playing to his town meta. = scummy without just relying on someone else's play in another game ##Vote: Keirathi Fuck it, I'm tired of answering the same things over and over again. Nothing I can say about those incidents is going to change your mind.
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So lets get down to the current candidates:
iamperfection
I've said it many times. His demeanor is entirely different than his scum demeanor, and almost exactly the same as his townie demeanor. Yes, its a meta read, but one I'm comfortable not voting today.
His lurking I don't find particularly scummy either, because he has 3 games going at the same time and is posting about the same amount in all of them.
Drazerk
Null, maybe leaning slightly town, because of his interactions with me earlier in the game. He had ample opportunity to push me if he was scum, but instead carried on a conversation explaining his thought process. I don't like his interactions with S&B, because they feel full of confirmation bias from a past dispute, which has pulled him back down closer to null.
And obviously I'm not going to be voting for myself. I've tried to be open with my thought processes and stayed active when it would have been much easier to lurk along with most of the town. I just flat-out don't have anyone that I have a strong enough scumread and enough supporting evidence of the read to push a lynch on. If you want to lynch me for being indecisive, then there's not really much I can do about that. I've been trying to engage people and gather their reactions and give opinions, but I can't magically make up a case.
So honestly I think there's a good chance that the top 3 candidates are all town and scum is having a hay-day.
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On October 02 2012 07:55 Mattchew wrote:
draz you there? i am thinking of switching to keirathi who wants to play told ya so if iamperf flips town
Of course I'm going to say "I told ya so". This is the exact same fucking situation that happened in Not Themed. Everyone was piling onto Vivax at the end of day 1, and I kept saying "Guys, this is just town Vivax being town Vivax. Look at <Insert whatever game>." I mentioned the specific game he was scum in (Newbie XIX). But no one bothered to go look and compare that to his recent townie games.
Fuck you if you want me to do your work for you.
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On October 02 2012 07:59 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 07:55 Mattchew wrote:
draz you there? i am thinking of switching to keirathi who wants to play told ya so if iamperf flips town Of course I'm going to say "I told ya so". This is the exact same fucking situation that happened in Not Themed. Everyone was piling onto Vivax at the end of day 1, and I kept saying "Guys, this is just town Vivax being town Vivax. Look at <Insert whatever game>." I mentioned the specific game he was scum in (Newbie XIX). But no one bothered to go look and compare that to his recent townie games. Fuck you if you want me to do your work for you.
EBWOP: Its on the accuser to make the case. If you think my meta read is wrong, then show me examples of him being aggressive/condescending/angsty as scum, or passive/noncommittal/sheepish as town.
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On October 02 2012 08:10 Mementoss wrote:
if you read the link I gave to you Keirathi you would have realized his meta didn't match rock band at all.
Your objection to my points about iamp was that he was lurking. I specifically mentioned that I thought his lurking was not alignment indicative because he has had basically the same activity level in all 3 games that he's currently playing in.
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EBWOP: What I mean to say is that it was his attitude that had me leaning town on him, not necessarily the contents of his posts.
But, I was wrong and I am terrible.
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Sorry for my extended absence. I ended up having plans last night that rolled over well into today.
Anyways, I would be pretty happy with an austin lynch today.
The fact that he was so back and forth on me for the whole day actually voting, then suddenly deciding that I'm scummy enough for a vote only AFTER ghost comes in and makes his case, when it was pretty clear that it could get some support and maybe drag votes away from iamperfection, is scummy as hell.
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On October 03 2012 11:38 gonzaw wrote:
-He's "null" on perfection and spouts some wishywashy stuff about him and puts the usual "I want him to post more reads, I'll wait for him" scum tactic scum always use with their buddies (I should know of I always use it).
Oh really? Interesting...
Gonzaw wrote:
just in case I miss it I'll make a placeholder vote on iamperfection:
##Vote: iamperfection
I don't have a strong read on him at all, but after rereading it's the strongest one I have.
None of his posts seemed to contribute at all, and even his ghost vote seemed "easy" to latch on. He doesn't have anything else to go on, so it's a safe bet I think.
Others I could have placed a vote on would be JingleHell, Mementos or Nisani, but I'm not sure at all about them. I really need to see how they will act towards contributing and towards the lynch, right now they seem passive, lurky and nothing else (I'd consider keeping austin/ghost/others alive until I get more info on them)
But considering nobody else has done anything in the last hours (in terms of contributing to the lynch, or discussion, etc) and everybody seemed to have the same "meh I don't really care" apathetic attitude it's difficult to assert if they are doing it out of a scum motivation or are just townies that aren't doing shit because nobody else is doing shit.
gonzaw wrote:
Hmm, okay people, what do you guys think about lynching one of these guys:
JingleHell
Mementos
Nisani
CrossFire
austin
iamperfection
And if you'd switch to one of them, why would you do it?
Like I said before I have that same "weird" feeling about them, but again it seems none of them other than Mementos decided to show up to contribute at all.
It wouldn't bother me too much since it's D1, but we are getting too close to the lynch deadline and we have to choose a lynch.
gonzaw wrote:
Yes, it's easy for scum to pick any townie from that list at random and point fingers, but there's no reason to believe him.
I trust some people here more than others, and it's the opinion of those that I'll take into account to determine my choice.
The "scummy" people would be forced to choose so I can see how they interact and contribute, but not to completely sway my opinion.
Well, tough luck I'm leaving right now.
You know what, fuck it:
##Unvote: iamperfection
##Vote: JingleHell
I don't really buy that "the world is against me" attitude and I haven't seen any contribution from him other than his scummy read on Drazerk (maybe his unvote is not that scummy, but it's the only thing I can go on).
Take into account that's a rash vote/placeholder, but oh well.
Pretty convenient that you took literally no stance on iamperfection for the whole day besides putting a vote on him and not trying to get him lynched. However, when he started getting some actual momentum, you suddenly didn't think that he was worthy of your vote anymore and you threw it down on JH. And it just happened to be right before you "left" until the deadline too...
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Oh, I missed one:
On October 01 2012 10:44 gonzaw wrote:
So....hello, anybody?
austin, why aren't you making those fluffy walls of text you make when you are town?
Why does it seem nobody cares?
Damn, what a boring game :/
If this keeps up like this I'll most likely vote S&B, or ghost (if he wasn't intentionally trolling), or Jingle (if I make up my mind about him) or Mementos/Nisani/austin/iamperfection (I have "weird" feelings about all of them but there so little to go on that I can't know for sure).
Yeah, not incredibly useful, but oh well...
Also, I'm wary as fuck of the way he's trying to assert to everyone that I'm town. He has said "Keirathi is town" so many times this game that it feels like he knows for sure.
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Regarding gonzaw:
I just can't get over how 1) he accuses Nisani of being wishy-washy towards iamperfection and 2) says thats what what he would do as scum, when thats EXACTLY what he had done this game.
When he said that, I thought "Hey, thats a reasonable thing to accuse Nisani for. Lets check gonzaw's filter and see how he interacted with iamp." And it was literally exactly the same thing he was accusing Nisani of.
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@austin:
So lets go over your main points against me one more time:
1) Early game explanations
But this thread needed to move past setup speculation and into people giving real, meaningful opinions and thoughts that they can be held accountable for.
Why do I need someone else's opinion on my case to make up my own mind about how well Matt defended himself?
You keep saying those two things are mutually exclusive and therefor contradictory. But, first off, Mattchew did give opinions and thoughts (specifically related to me and my case). And second, the only way they would be contradictory is if you think that I said I was satisfied with his explanation and unvoted to shut down all conversation and therefor stop giving opinions. And that's obviously not the case, because 1) its not like the case disappeared just because I unvoted. I just didn't think it was prudent to keep my vote on someone that I didn't particularly think was scum just to force other people to come in and tell me I had a weak case and 2) I even kept discussing it for the next few hours.
Again, read the quote carefully. I said I wanted to thread to move past setup speculation and into giving opinions. I honestly didn't care what the opinions were about. Just anything other than trying to guess how many scum/third party there were.
2) JH thing
On October 01 2012 06:03 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon? When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads.
On October 02 2012 00:40 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:
, so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline.
For one, how is it scummy to ask someone else something that has been asked to me? It was a valid question when gonzaw asked me, and I felt it was a valid question to ask JH.
At the time, I honestly felt like JH's contributions were lacking. Which is I assume the same reason gonzaw asked that question to me. And I've played with JH once in the past (well, technically I replaced in after he was killed, but point still stands), and in that game he was actively trying to figure the game out. I honestly didn't feel like he was doing that, and making excuses as to why (and again, I never said they were bad excuses. Just excuses. And I understand the feeling, because had I not been killed off in Newbie XXII, I probably would have been scum team MVP as town as well. It was frustrating in hindsight how terrible all of my reads were).
And two, I wasn't attacking him for doing the same thing as me. I was asking him a question and gauging his response. It was late in the day and I felt like his response would go a long way to deciding if I thought he was lurking scum, or being sincere in his excuses. His response felt townie, and I dropped it.
Now, lets go into some hypotheticals, since we know that iamperfection was godfather/JOAT:
If I am scum, why didn't I do more to push a new target? I mean, I was hard defending iamperfection on a meta read, so why wouldn't I have at least attempted to push someone else who had a few votes? Unless you think me, iamperfection, and drazerk are a scumteam and there was no hope of lynching anyone else. But wait, what about JH earlier (whom you said you have a 100% town read on)? He got up to 2 votes at one point, when iamp only had 3.
So basically you think I am a terrible scum who has no regard for his teamate, nor a desire to bus him. That, while being the most active person in the thread, I couldn't be arsed to do more to save the godfather than give a meta read on him, and have a weak case on Nisani. Its not like I was being wishy-washy on iamp. I literally said ever since the first time that he was mentioned that I felt his demeanor was more similar to his town demeanor than his scum demeanor.
I may only have one scum game in my history, but I think its pretty clear if you read it that none of those things would have applied to me in that game.
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I've been spending time with my family before they leave. I'm at work now on my phone, but I'll try to get something up about nisani and s&b asap
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Still on my phone, and I'll try to get my full thoughts out in a little bit, but on first read-through of their filters, I would much rather lynch nisani.
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EPT
