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On October 01 2012 05:03 austinmcc wrote:
Scummy motivation? Just look at your explanation, that you wanted to stop setup speculation and move into something else, generate discussion, because it would help town. RAWR, i am keirathi, the hero who saved town from a slow game, scum would never do that, feed me your town cred!
Do you really think I got town cred for making a weak case and then unvoting? Lol.
Here's how I see it: I could have just said "Hey guys lets stop speculating about the setup and someone do some scumhunting!", or I could have pointed out what I found mildly scummy and accomplished the same goal in a better way because now people actually have something to actually talk about.
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On October 01 2012 05:59 gonzaw wrote:
At Keirathi:
1)Are you going to start scumhunting soon?
When I feel like there's enough for me to make an actual case that I believe in. Until them, I'm content to ask questions and discuss the current goings-on in the thread to build my reads.
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On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
1)How do you stand in respect to Drazerk? Do you agree with Nisani/Jingle/etc about his scummy behaviour or do you think he's town or are you not sure?
I don't think Drazerk is scummy. I feel like he was just legitimately trying to keep the discussion rolling after I unvoted. You'll notice that I didn't question his motives, I just responded to his questions and kept rolling. He was right to call out my unvote. He's was wrong about my intentions, but it was the right move for a townie.
On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
2)Same about JingleHell. Do you agree with what I said about him or not? Or do you think it's not enough to judge his alignment, and if so why?
You copied my question to JH, then added lurking on top of it. There's not really much to agree or disagree with. Yes, his logic leap didn't make sense when he vote for Drazerk. And yes, he was lurking. Town JH is known for being aggressive and leader-y, so until he steps up, I am wary of him. However, I do at least understand his argument about Drazerk now that he explained it.
On October 01 2012 06:09 gonzaw wrote:
3)Do you think ghost acting like an idiot and wanting to lynch you for mind-boggling reasons makes him scum, reckless townie trying to play the "aggressive hero" role, or is not enough to judge his alignment?
This is the harder one. I honestly don't think that ghost is an idiot. He hosted two of my three newbie games, and definitely saw the amount of effort I put into Newbie XIX within the first 12 hours of replacing in, so theoretically he should know the way I play better than anyone else in this game (I've played in one game with about half of the players in this game). So why is he acting like that? Honestly, my first thought was Village Idiot, but I'm not sure if there's a VI-type role, and I think its pointless to speculate about it so I didn't mention it. I 100% think what he has said was anti-town, though.
As a bonus answer, Nisani is the other person (besides ghost) that I am particularly interested in right now. I feel like him jumping in to defend me against Drazerk because I was a "newbie" was taking advantage of an easy situation.
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@gonzaw:
No comments on my reply? Do you agree with my thinking?
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Greymist/Hassy: can you please link filters in the OP? Thanks <3
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On October 01 2012 09:05 Drazerk wrote:
The thread is like 9 pages long lol
I know, but it took me 5 pages to actually find s&b's posts.
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Oh. Duh.
I never use All so I didn't think about that. Oops!
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I would talk with you but I exhausted my major reads when you asked earlier, so I'll just make some quick comments:
s&b: hardcore lurking. I honestly expect more from him.
austin: weird flip-flop on me, and again not as active as I would expect
Mementoss: null. I'm curious what about him gives you a weird feeling? Your only mentions of him so far are in passing, or asking other people questions.
iamperfection: slight meta-based town read, despite his lurkiness.
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On October 01 2012 13:19 HiroPro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 07:03 Crossfire99 wrote:So, I think Keirathi's conflicting reasons for his earlier behavior that austin already pointed out are weird, but it isn't enough for me to vote for him right now. I'll need some more evidence. I'm confused about Drazerk. I guess I haven't played with him before and some people seem to have used this to inform their decision. As for Jingle, I don't think that we can use the fact that he posted a defense when he did as justification for voting for him. If he continually has that timing, then I'll use that as evidence. Also, I think people are reading too much into Jingle's early vote on Drazerk because I'm confused by Drazerk, and can understand Jingle's reasoning for voting him. But some of you are saying that Drazerk is just acting like his normal self...so I guess I'm still just confused by Drazerk... I don't understand this post of yours, Drazerk. On October 01 2012 06:05 Drazerk wrote:
Scum don't make mistakes third party do
Screw third party and all their back stabbing goodness
Don't scum make mistakes, too? And isn't that how we catch them? So what are you sure of? What did you think about ghost's vote on Keirathi? Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 12:03 strongandbig wrote:
Hey guys
So I'm just checking in
I call Drazerk out for scummy play
He says "I play like this always so you can't call me out for it"
My response: okay so we lynch you for it, you know it's scummy play but you do it anyway.
When is the deadline? You mind actually responding to anything that's going on in the thread? You and I both know that Drazerk is not going to change the way he plays. You can start by responding to my question here: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 04:02 HiroPro wrote:
hey s&b you think keirathi is telling the truth with his plan or do you think he came up with reasons for it afterwards?
Maybe you could give your opinions on those questions? So far, the only real opinion you've given on anyone in this game was "I don't think your point about JingleHell was very good".
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Actually, I guess you wouldn't want to answer those questions yourself before Crossfire and S&B answer them.
So how about an opinion on austin changing his conclusion towards my case super easily?
And maybe a quick read of Mementoss while you're at it?
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On October 01 2012 14:25 strongandbig wrote:
here's what im thinking right now
hiro might be scum because he's posted a lot of small one-liners and asked a bunch of questions but not actually contributed much of anything of his own in terms of reads or analysis.
drazerk might be scum because he switched his read from keirathi to me for little reason. not giving any reason why he unvoted keirathi shows that he doesn't really care about who he votes for, he just wants to push the thread around. he knows that he and i often get into shitfights and it's advantageous for him as scum to try and start one, as long as he thinks i won't be able to push a scum read on him through, which he probably does because he's arrogant. the thing is - his argument works both ways around - he says that I should know he doesn't actually try to win as town, but he focuses on third party, so my calling him out for that makes me scum. The thing is, I call him out for that every game - his attempting to call me out on it this game for being scum makes no sense. he's trying to use circular logic but it backfired.
mattchew is sort of trying to scumhunt. this is very helpful in narrowing down his playstyle. he's either doing his bus-all-the-scum scum routine, or he's actually townie. mattchew very rarely makes up fake scum reads on town players when he's scum, he either posts cases on his teammates or just lurks the shit out of everything. so what that means is you can put a high amount of trust that his reads are genuine - he's either bussing or actually trying to find scum.
crossfire99 - pretty focused on drazerk
nisani - lol. what a "case".
also ##vote: drazerk
I think he's probably scum and I want him out of this game.
I seem to remember Mattchew making a rather large case against gonzaw in Not Themed. But I think it was on like day3, after he pushed his scumbuddy talis on day 2 and just coasted day 1.
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On October 01 2012 14:33 strongandbig wrote:
oh also keirathi i think you said you have a slight meta-based townread on iamperfection, could you tell us about his meta in your opinion? if you didn't say this then whoever did say this pls answer that question but i think it was keirathi.
It was me. I've played with scum iamperfection in a newbie game a couple months ago, and observed a few of his recent townie games. In his townie games he is cocky, while in his scum game he was careful and lurky. I know it was a while ago, and that doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be cocky if he rolled scum again if he was more confident in his play, but my initial read was town.
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On October 01 2012 14:30 strongandbig wrote:@hiro's question about keirathi's plan so i assume the plan you're talking about is "make a shitty case on purpose to start discussion" ? it's a god-awful plan, the only discussion you'll start is people saying "what a shitty case, you sure you give a fuck this game?" also kenpachi rule lol also keirathi says Show nested quote +"I don't think Drazerk is scummy. I feel like he was just legitimately trying to keep the discussion rolling after I unvoted. You'll notice that I didn't question his motives, I just responded to his questions and kept rolling. He was right to call out my unvote. He's was wrong about my intentions, but it was the right move for a townie." - first drazerk "legitimately trying" as town? you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
second this reads pretty sketchy to me, scum like to ingratiate themselves with townies who are suspicious of them as long as their lynch appears remote. so yeah, keirathi not looking too great to me right now. but i'm not sure about it - i'm actually not sure if you're right to call it a "plan" - sometimes townies do make weak cases right at the start of a day to get the ball rolling. it's just a thing, not a plan or a gambit or whatever. So I think he may not have been thinking to himself, 'i'll make this case as shitty as possible to bait out responses', but he could have been thinking 'this is dead so even though there's nothing to work with i'll do what i can."
First point: I've never played with, nor read a game that Drazerk was in afaik (well, except for the Caller game thats running. But that was a troll game to begin with). So I honestly have no idea what his meta is supposed to be. He jumped in and gave me something to talk about when my case was shut down.
Second point: so, its impossible for a townie to have a town read on someone just because that person is suspicious of you? I don't understand that logic. And its a lose-lose situation for me. If I think he's scummy, someone calls it OMGUS. If I think he's townie, you say I'm ingratiating myself.
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On October 01 2012 14:58 HiroPro wrote:Do you think that keirathi would make points like this as scum? They read pretty townie to me. Show nested quote +On September 30 2012 13:01 Keirathi wrote:For completeness sake, though, I did go back through all of your games up to Movie Star, and the only pattern was that you seem to claim town if you get into the thread early, and otherwise say you are catching up and reading the thread in your first post 
While I appreciate the read, this in particular shouldn't give you a townie read on me. Go read the post game comments from GSL Open Mini Mafia. I specifically mentioned that I spent a lot of time in filters and digging through meta to strengthen (or crush) cases that I was planning to make, even though I was scum.
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Anyways, its 1:30am. I'm going to sleep. I'll answer anymore questions when I wake up in the morning.
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On October 01 2012 20:28 Mementoss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 14:35 Keirathi wrote:
It was me. I've played with scum iamperfection in a newbie game a couple months ago, and observed a few of his recent townie games. In his townie games he is cocky, while in his scum game he was careful and lurky. I know it was a while ago, and that doesn't necessarily mean he wouldn't be cocky if he rolled scum again if he was more confident in his play, but my initial read was town. His play sure looks careful and lurker to me. Compare to this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250 where he is pretty agressive and constantly active throguhout the discussion from the get go.
You completely missed the entire point of the post that you quoted of mine.
On October 01 2012 05:43 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 04:22 ghost_403 wrote:
I'm pretty happy lynching Keirathi right now. He's putting way too much effort into scumhunting on Day 1 to build up towncred. Looking through previous filters when there's been, what, twenty posts in this game? No, that's not something that townies do. I vote we lynch him today, and mementoss tomorrow. WHO'S WITH ME.
##vote keirathi We are seriously going to allow this crap? Ive played about 6 games of tl mafia and this is the biggest pile of crap ive seen yet. ## Vote ghost_403
This post, in my experience, shows townie iamperfection mentality. The fact that he's been lurking hasn't had anything to do with his alignment this game, because he has 3 games going at once and hasn't been posting in any of them.
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On October 01 2012 23:24 gonzaw wrote:
Voting ghost is too easy.
So, he's too scummy to be scum?
That's such a terrible argument, and TL Towns in general have this stigma of "scum would never do something that I think is stupid" and talk themselves out of good lynches. Just look at Risen's vote-change shenanigans in...LIII. I know I've been guilty of it myself, but is this really townie ghost? I haven't seen any games of his (except for the tail end of Death Note, recently), so I don't really know. I guess I'll go dig through his filters.
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@austin: what's your position on me now? You jumped from not scummy, to questioning my explanations, and even through out a (laughable) scum motivation for my actions. But you completely didn't even mention me now that you're back.
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On October 02 2012 00:36 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 00:31 austinmcc wrote:
Why exactly do you find that performance embarrassing, and how is it driving you to play the way you are this game? Is it just the constant pushing of Grush and trying to get people on that lynch? I led several rather key mislynches. As town. Pushing Grush was about the least embarrassing part of my performance, because frankly, he's useless. I do wish he'd died earlier in the game, though. I don't remember all the specifics at this point off the top of my head, but almost every time I convinced people on someone, it made the overall situation worse. Clearly, if I make too much case out of too little, it doesn't serve the town , so I'm letting things solidify in my mind and in the thread a bit more before going into hardcore push people mode, because once I do that, there's a tendency for someone to get lynched. Being in a town-leader-ish position is only good if I don't also get nominated as the scumteam's MVP as town for it.
How long, exactly, do you plan to wait? Theres only 7.5 hours until the deadline.
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EPT
