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On October 04 2012 11:56 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 11:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 04 2012 11:31 slOosh wrote:
Ah I see. It's scary when you do it without explaining like you now did because you might be doing some high level scum play given your reputation.
Then let's talk about the list. I think kush is town based on his demeanor (throwing up thoughts onto thread without the scummy tendency to double check / review). Your turn. Er? Its scummy thing to recheck / review? I don't do that ever unless I am town making some epic post by post analysis. I think he could easily be mafia given his interactions with people, his odd post that he just made On October 04 2012 11:15 kushm4sta wrote:
im so town though This may just be the living up in a household with a mother who is an english major, but using the word "so" as he did seems weird to me. However throwing ones thoughts into the thread mean near jackshit when you look at the last three pages of his filter have been basically none useful. I don't see solid reasoning for reads, I see summarizing of other peoples shit, spam, and the same. I honestly believe if someone is active like he has been this game there should be real content in his filter, and honestly I am not seeing it. That's him as townie, and that's him as scum. Unfortunately it's either vig or policy lynch for him. I think he fits his town meta a bit more then his scum meta, but I could be wrong here. Would be nice if someone who's played witih him, such as kreb (I think?) could attest to this.
Only played with him as town. First day I think he was a bit more spazzy than usual, which I also pointed out. Since then, I'd say he fits his town meta pretty well. It could be a case of him understanding he needs to tone himself down a bit as scum though, and theres others things happening which also has made him look a bit scummy. But if I were to push him as scum, I probably wont use meta as a strong part of my argument. That said, Thrawn seemed to disagree with that in the small time he was in the thread.
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On October 04 2012 16:01 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 11:56 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 04 2012 11:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On October 04 2012 11:31 slOosh wrote:
Ah I see. It's scary when you do it without explaining like you now did because you might be doing some high level scum play given your reputation.
Then let's talk about the list. I think kush is town based on his demeanor (throwing up thoughts onto thread without the scummy tendency to double check / review). Your turn. Er? Its scummy thing to recheck / review? I don't do that ever unless I am town making some epic post by post analysis. I think he could easily be mafia given his interactions with people, his odd post that he just made On October 04 2012 11:15 kushm4sta wrote:
im so town though This may just be the living up in a household with a mother who is an english major, but using the word "so" as he did seems weird to me. However throwing ones thoughts into the thread mean near jackshit when you look at the last three pages of his filter have been basically none useful. I don't see solid reasoning for reads, I see summarizing of other peoples shit, spam, and the same. I honestly believe if someone is active like he has been this game there should be real content in his filter, and honestly I am not seeing it. That's him as townie, and that's him as scum. Unfortunately it's either vig or policy lynch for him. I think he fits his town meta a bit more then his scum meta, but I could be wrong here. Would be nice if someone who's played witih him, such as kreb (I think?) could attest to this. Only played with him as town. First day I think he was a bit more spazzy than usual, which I also pointed out. Since then, I'd say he fits his town meta pretty well. It could be a case of him understanding he needs to tone himself down a bit as scum though, and theres others things happening which also has made him look a bit scummy. But if I were to push him as scum, I probably wont use meta as a strong part of my argument. That said, Thrawn seemed to disagree with that in the small time he was in the thread.
Quoting myself when I think more about it. One thing that might not fit his town meta in this game is his willingness to jump votes all the time. He did it a lot in D1 and since then he's been spreading FoS'es and agreeing on cases left and right. I know him as a much more focused town player who, while still acting/posting about like he is doing now, wasnt as easily swayed in another direction.
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On October 04 2012 09:04 mkfuba07 wrote:
@SloOsh
What do you think about my post regarding VE (linked above)? I see it as a reason to see VE as scum that doesn't simply revolve around him being incorrect.
Same question goes for austinmcc and Kreb.
Well theres clear scum motives to try and paint annul as dangerous mafia since it could make people more paranoid about him even though there might not be that many solid reasons to lynch him. So I think it holds some merit. However I probably wouldnt wanna lynch VE just because of that, to me its the whole package (kush posted some of the posts regarding him in one post, theres some more I'd like to add to that though) which is scummy.
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On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 09:37 kushm4sta wrote:
You said you were going to read through the thread again so you could figure things out. Instead of making a case against someone you just sit in the thread wise cracking? Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking. Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch.
Im kinda of interested why you think its a good idea to wait with your supposed defense or whatever is gonna happen to make us not want to vote you. Care to share that?
You letting the accusations kinda fall off peoples menories while the town (for a good readon) moves on to other scum-hunting doesnt really speak in your favor. You going trolling/spamming mode together with marv doesnt either. A town being concerned about being mislynched wouldnt wanna clog up the thread with uselss posts, would they? I'd be very disappointed in your defense is you jumping on, say, DPs case on Keirathi and went all in on that because its taken up a part of the thread and now it presents you a way out.
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Anyway, a bit of a small update: Ive been looking at VE mostly recently but it might be a good idea to comment on the other cases. The one Im most suspicious of not counting VE would be Kush. Theres rivalling opinions about his meta but I'm not willing to call it his town meta as of yet. Ive been changing my opinion on this a few times back and forth already, but lets just say I dont considering to be anywhere near as strong of a town indicator to give him a free pass. On the other hand, his interactions with marv is on the suspicious side, and some of his comments have been even more.... extreme than what I'd expect from someone posting/playing as town.
Other than that, I think DPs case on Keirathi holds some merit and people also seem to be coming back to Mattchew and expecting him to be more on a contributory player, which I dont consider him to be at the moment.
Too bad we have a bunch of really low count posters out there too and theres a descent chance theres a scum or two hidden among those too.
Also, Node didnt vote and seems to be likely to get repalced. Not sure who the other one is though.
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Well this is getting a bit silly. I feel I havent really done much useful stuff last 3days due to the obvious marv lynch, and now we have to wait another almost 5days before we get to (what could be!!!!) the next real lynch. I guess we're a bit lucky we have caught two seemingly strong scum players (I had a pretty towny read on Hapa although I was suspicious of marv). The lives of Risen and mkfuba shall not be forgotten! The fact that austin got shot also makes it look like he was telling the truth last night and was targetted. Still no claims for this night yet though....
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Oh yea, and to make it clear:
##Vote Hapahauli
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Oh, and we've now had both scum kinda putting Kushs meta on the towny side lol. Dont know if thats indicative of a scum-Kush or the scum team just wanting to make Kush look scummy. Or maybe they're just trying to keep him alive as town so town mislynches other "more useful" players. Anyway, not gonna regard that as an indication of Kushs aligment either way as of yet.
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I never really liked touteschaos's (spelling?) case on Shiao. I didnt see the scummy part in it and I think he made too big of a deal of an, at best, very minor tell. So I dont really see any reason to consider Shiao as a target as of now.
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On October 07 2012 09:24 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2012 09:22 Kreb wrote:
I never really liked touteschaos's (spelling?) case on Shiao. I didnt see the scummy part in it and I think he made too big of a deal of an, at best, very minor tell. So I dont really see any reason to consider Shiao as a target as of now. I know it is WIFOM. But he died. after having two clear suspects. Isn't it worth considering that he died for a reason? Especially considering Austin died the same night after calling out hapa that same night? it is WIFOM. So take it with several grains of salt. But to me it is worth looking into.
Well, I did look into it. Read it and reread it, it was mostly a case built on "Shiao is a good player, this case was below his standard, it looks scummy". First I dont know enough of Shiao to really agree on the case itself. But even if the case was 100% true, the tell itself isnt strong at all. If I'd be interested enough I could probably find similarly strong cases on 5 or 10 other people in here who has made weaker than usual cases/strong than usual cases/less than usual cases/more than usual cases/responded different to cases/etc. If I'd be suspicious of Shiao because of that I'd be suspicious of 15ppl here, which kinda defeats the purpose of the suspicion.
Stuff like that does in no way build a solid case in itself unless its much stronger than this. It is worth taking into account if a person does other scummy things, but I've seen nothing scummy (well, not more than anyone else anyway) of Shiao apart from that. Granted I havent looked too much into it due how uninteresting the game is with the obvious lynches, but thats my current feeling anyway.
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And if we think the french dude (lets call him that, fuck his spelling!) died because he was onto mafia, I think Kush is definitely the guy to look at and not Shiao.
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On October 08 2012 03:57 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Hey all. I am aware I have been mia for awhile and to sum it all up, I have had a family emergency situation arise friday which is now thankfully dealt with for the time being, thanksgiving and work. I should be able to start committing time again to the game and will be doing so by reading through the thread since the marv lynch. I am apologetic to those in the game and those running it that I basically vanished but I honestly realize I hadn't said anything till now.
Again, I am sorry for the disappearance and will begin sifting through the thread.
Just quickly: Were you targetted this night again? We still havent heard anyone claim anything.
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On October 08 2012 14:11 BroodKingEXE wrote:
Mattchew didnt vote?
Seems so. I guess we can expect a modkill.
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I've got a what I would call pretty strong town read on BC so almost no chance I'll be supporting any case on him. And its not because of his pretty contributory posts, which I dont doubt he'd be able to do as scum too.
Why then? Because of this:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 07:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon. On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How? Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have: On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it. This stands out to me for one major reason. It makes perfect sense for mafia to push node as a distraction case regardless of the fact shady flipped green. Ask VE or Node if they remember a game in the high 30's or low 40s run by FW with the weird mason mechanic (each player could mason any two players they chose but only two players) where on day 3 or 4 as mafia my entire team sat firmly on two sides of a townie vs townie lynch pushing each. Also pushing node as a "distraction" case would be perfect if austin is red. Why? Because it got heat off himself. However, this is me merely clearing up something I find instantly wrong and misleading. In regards to the lynch yesterday. Not sure how shady was lynched, thought we had passed that when I was active in the thread yesterday. Also not sure how the node picked up so much steam the way it did given that the main person pushing said case was under some heat from people and the votes were slowly swinging the way. Why do you ask? Because node had so very few posts and was easy to cherry pick. The case was also poor on him given the fact that well, its node. The only thing that speaks badly about his posting thus far is the lack of it. Making odd posts like he has is very typical of his play regardless of alignment, and the biggest tell is his lack of involvement in the game. Rather then making a case on his posts someone should have brought up the fact that a veteran player had made such few and weird looking posts as the main tell over his one sentence on his why he thought shady wasn't scum. I am back for most of the night so I will go through the thread to make sure I can get more info out given that I have a horrible trend of dying day 1's these days.
Context: I presented my thought in the Node wagon and the conclusions from it. Marv entered a discussion with me to discredit me/my case and to deny any support of it. He probably did a pretty good job of it actually since I wasnt really getting much support, although it was during an inactive part of the day. In comes BC and drops the fact that Marvs reasoning was flawed. Now, why the fuck would you do that as scum? Unless its some really deep plan behind it, if you're marvs scum buddy at that time you stfu and hope Marvs arguing gets support from the masses while I get discredited.
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On October 08 2012 19:32 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 19:15 Kreb wrote:I've got a what I would call pretty strong town read on BC so almost no chance I'll be supporting any case on him. And its not because of his pretty contributory posts, which I dont doubt he'd be able to do as scum too. Why then? Because of this: + Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 07:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 04:46 marvellosity wrote:On October 03 2012 04:41 Kreb wrote:On October 03 2012 04:28 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kreb , are you saying that because marv and whoever else pushed a node lynch away from the shady lynch that means you're suspicious of them? Shady flipped green so I don't see how that argument makes sense. You say the node lynch was unnatural and possibly pushed by scum which if true would mean that node is green and shady is red.... but shady is green so I'm not understanding your logic. Well, theres is still the possibility of it being an austin-distraction. Or just as a general distraction from, well, any mafia. Theres also the purpose of just pushing for different townies left and right because it both creates confusion and probably makes it easier to blend in (if theres votes all over the place, everything is "ok", so mafia can pick any stance they want and seem genuine with it). I still dont see Node as scummy at all from his posting, and the way that wagon happened makes him look on the townish side. You're not making sense. The Node push makes no sense from a mafia distraction point of view because Shady was a townie heading inexorably for the lynch. It's in these situations mafia are usually happy to sit back as town happily hops on to the townie wagon. On Node: tell me, does his posting look like he cares for town? iamperfection pointed it out perfectly earlier: When Node was at great risk of being lynched, did he come in to drop reads and shit? No, he came in to call town stupid, and then promptly left again without making any reads or anything. How are you reading this as townie? You also, presumably from your attitude, find his defence of Shady townie. How? Want to talk about your connection stuff a little. You don't even realise how strongly you're doing it, or how it's affecting how you think. We have: On October 02 2012 08:23 Kreb wrote:
Anyway, time to put down my vote. Disregarding the first trio (kush/kj/shady) which Ive said Im not feeling too good about.
-snip-
Austin on the other hand indeed had a pretty bad reason to vote for KJ. And his obsession with the spy comment seem a bit..... out of place. Cant say Im feeling super convinced about this either considering how early it is into the game and the length of peoples filters, but meh, gotta place my vote somewhere.
As such: ##Vote austinmcc
You place your vote on him and you're not sure at all. Your very next post goes into theories about the Node wagon and how it looked and how it makes austin look much worse (which I think I've helped establish that it doesn't really). So you, yourself, never actually had strong feelings on austin if the quote above is true, until you started ladeling Node/austin/me/VE/wagon stuff on top of it. This stands out to me for one major reason. It makes perfect sense for mafia to push node as a distraction case regardless of the fact shady flipped green. Ask VE or Node if they remember a game in the high 30's or low 40s run by FW with the weird mason mechanic (each player could mason any two players they chose but only two players) where on day 3 or 4 as mafia my entire team sat firmly on two sides of a townie vs townie lynch pushing each. Also pushing node as a "distraction" case would be perfect if austin is red. Why? Because it got heat off himself. However, this is me merely clearing up something I find instantly wrong and misleading. In regards to the lynch yesterday. Not sure how shady was lynched, thought we had passed that when I was active in the thread yesterday. Also not sure how the node picked up so much steam the way it did given that the main person pushing said case was under some heat from people and the votes were slowly swinging the way. Why do you ask? Because node had so very few posts and was easy to cherry pick. The case was also poor on him given the fact that well, its node. The only thing that speaks badly about his posting thus far is the lack of it. Making odd posts like he has is very typical of his play regardless of alignment, and the biggest tell is his lack of involvement in the game. Rather then making a case on his posts someone should have brought up the fact that a veteran player had made such few and weird looking posts as the main tell over his one sentence on his why he thought shady wasn't scum. I am back for most of the night so I will go through the thread to make sure I can get more info out given that I have a horrible trend of dying day 1's these days. Context: I presented my thought in the Node wagon and the conclusions from it. Marv entered a discussion with me to discredit me/my case and to deny any support of it. He probably did a pretty good job of it actually since I wasnt really getting much support, although it was during an inactive part of the day. In comes BC and drops the fact that Marvs reasoning was flawed. Now, why the fuck would you do that as scum? Unless its some really deep plan behind it, if you're marvs scum buddy at that time you stfu and hope Marvs arguing gets support from the masses while I get discredited. yeah I would say it seems he is not allied with marv (I'm scared about two scum factions because of stupid aperture); but it seems like a Node defense. Calling it similar to mafia on two townies. Node ain't no townie. Thanks for bringing that to my attention though, I'll keep it in mind. Do you think it is more likely he is town or SK(since you are sure he isn't with Marv).? Why? In case it wasn't clear I wouldn't vote BC next cycle without more reasoning than can be provided now. For the moment I want Risk to die first. Also: where the hell do you live? no one is ever on when I come home from work. Except for DP.
Well, trying to pinpoint the SK with 16ppl left seems a bit futile. We dont even know the SKs wincon. If we knew it we might have had a chance to see whos playing towards that wincon, but as of now Im just disregarding the SK in any discussion of peoples alignments.
And I live in Sweden (posting and reading a bit from work though).
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Im gonna drop all my reasons to vote VE in one big post before this night so its out there should I die. Considering you all seem to be very reluctant to throw suspicions my way (awww <3) I think I might be considered a target by mafia at least. That, however, is not something I'd like to do at work though. =)
But hey, we can always hope we get another Paramedic self-kill!
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Ok, time to post something before the night kills as I promised. Here are the reason I will most likely be voting VE next day if I'm alive. Also note that a lot of these things have already been posted, but with all the different tells which have been posted throughout the thread its probably a good idea to bunch them together somewhere.
1) The Node wagon.
This post:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well, I went over austin's filter and was coming back to tell you guys that I didn't want to lynch him based upon it, and then I saw two walls of his. We're not lynching austin today.
I'm liking a Node lynch. I do NOT think we have the votes to make it happen. I still like a Shady lynch, but more and more it's feeling like an angry townie ragequitting the game more than a scummy manipulation tactic. However his explanation for his trolling was totally bullshit and I can get behind his lynch more than kj/austin.
is the most scummy thing about it.
1a) He only says he read through austins filters, but he very nicely avoids posting what he found in it. Instead he refers to "the two walls of his" as if that somehow makes everything 100% clear. He still, as of today, has not explained why he changed.
1b) His extremely weak (on unexisting) reason to switch to Node. Someone (who people seem to regard a very strong player) should not change that easily to such a weak case it was.
2) Refusing to answer to said cases and other quetions
I just know what I asked him stuff myself, like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 19:54 Kreb wrote:@VEShow nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul. Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote:I really like austin all of a sudden. And really dislike Mattchew. It's going to be an eventful night guys. Sleep tight.  Three lines of text, three questions: 1) What gave you the scum-read on annul? You were targetting him previously but to my knowledge your last stance on him was this: Show nested quote +At this point I'm null - I got a false read on him early on, and while I think his anger at me seems a little contrived, I know I've overreacted once or twice to people calling my posts stupid or something. Once that I remember for sure. Maybe twice. Has this changed? If so, why? 2) Why do you like austin? 3) Why do you dislike Mattchew?
And he also refused to comment at all on my other accusations. To my knowledge he still hasnt said a word on the Node wagon yet.
3) The way he targetted annul
3a) His targetting D1 actually seemed to have a bit of reason behind it, but right after the Shady mislynch he says this:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 13:25 VisceraEyes wrote:
That's not the worst part. The worst part is we lynched a townie. That's just a bad, expected, forseeable part.
The worst part is that we didn't fucking lynch scum annul.
Once again, no explanation. Just straight up calling annul scum. It goes on for a while and the only legitimate reason I could see for his targetting of annul was the fact that annul suggested a vote switch (to ZBoson i think) very close to the deadline even though he had questioned vote switching before. While I did agree on that particular point against annul, that alone did in no way motivate the way VE attacked him. Also, it seemed like that reason only was revealed a bit after he had already started attacking annul, like he found about it later. A proper townie would have explained first and targetted after.
3b) Also he tried to paint annul as some really crafty mafia so the rest of us would be suspicious of him too, even though there wasnt as much to be suspicious of. mkfuba made a good case on that part:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 23:51 mkfuba07 wrote:Alright, I'm going to be getting a bit more rest since I woke up for Code S. Current thoughts: I could definitely see VE being scum. His unfortunate scumhunting is a big piece of the puzzle, but his interaction with annul keeps nagging at me. Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 10:31 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 10:21 annul wrote:On October 03 2012 09:48 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 03 2012 09:45 kushm4sta wrote:On October 03 2012 09:33 annul wrote:
whats with all the lies by this cabal? "you not pushing anyone" o rly who would you say you've pushed?? Who have you made a good case on? The longest post by far in your filter is a mostly omgus defence. "Rofl"s everywhere. VE has said that annul plays a scary mafia... If this is his scumplay how is this scary? It seems like he is making himself quite an obvious target for lynching if he is mafia. That's what you think...until he actually feels like he might be lynched. Then watch. *shiver* Palmar couldn't get the guy lynched. PALMAR. And his newbie brigade was in full force at the time! if i had such magical "lynch evasion" skills, wouldnt i have these same skills as a green about to be lynched too? What's your point? Did I ever say it was a skill you exclusively possess as scum? I didn't think I did :/ It took me a while to figure out why I was so annoyed by these posts, but I think I've figured it out. VE first emphasizes that as scum annul can become "scary" (which I assume means that he can appear to become a good contributor, though VE never actually says how annul becomes "scary"), but leaves out the fact that he might do the same exact thing as town. It doesn't feel like VE is trying to inform the town of annul's apparent meta, as much as emphasize the scummy aspects of annul's meta and attribute it entirely to scum-annul. It would feel the same way if marv came in and said that I can be incredibly wishy-washy as scum. He's emphasized in previous games that I am the master of wishy-washiness regardless of alignment (though I've only ever been scum once, for little over a day). If he were to come into this game and try to convince everyone that I'm only wishy-washy when I'm scum, then I would be incredibly suspicious of him (In fact, I believe that's part of why he avoided talking about me at all despite my case being in the same post as the Node one). In VE's case, it looks like he tried to do a similar thing, and then when annul called him out on it he tried to minimize the effect. Why say that scum-annul can be "scary" if town-annul can also be "scary" unless you're trying to make vigis take the shot without a proper reason? It seems like a pretty scummy interaction from VE. I'd really like to hear thoughts from others, as this is the first thing I feel pretty confident about this game. Finally, I'm still waiting on input from mementoss... I know that 15 pages is a lot to go through, but I'm not going to put him aside just because one of the people who was calling him out is going to flip scum. There are other lurkers, but he's promised more contributions twice now, and we've seen nothing from it.
4) Meta reads
This isnt something I can really confirm but I'll add it since it makes sence because of how many peopel have expressed them. Talismania started off by calling his meta scummy early D1. That kinda died off (probably for a good reason), but since then a lot of people have commented on how VE as town is MUCH more active, sometimes/often (?) something of a town leader and being much more contributory than how he is this game.
5) Extremely scummy (or bad if he really is town) scumhunting
Already posted about this, here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 03 2012 21:33 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 21:14 Z-BosoN wrote:
Couple of thoughts from reading marvs filter, now that he is pretty much confirmed scum.
First off, his reaction to kreb makes me raise an eyebrow. He was extremely aggressive for something that could simply have been a townie thought. Kreb also hadn't made an association case, he simply said that some people looked scummy. Also, kreb said that marvs node push made him look scummy and generally made a weak semicase vs marv. It didn't feel legit and marvs reaction felt forced. I myself don't know what I'm implying but I think this interaction will become useful later.
There's also some interesting info regarding the node push. Marv stated that it didn't make sense at all from a mafia perspective, yet made the push. Pretty much an attempt at clearing suspicion. Now, I'm not gonna go and start accusing everyone on the node lynch because I myself sheeped it, as town. But Afaik, VE and marv basically started the Node push, and pretty much at the same time.
Initially I thought this would clear node, but it's pretty easy to not actually make it go through as mafia.
So, my conclusion from this is: VE looks pretty damn scummy right now. 1) He basically claimed he got RB(and its almost factual that at least one kill didn't go through). 2) marv showed weird hostility on the association kreb didn't make. 3) he co-led the Node push with another scum at the same time -> came from qt, quite possibly. They were pretty much caught with their pants down if it was indeed scum-influenced. Agreed. VE also didnt reply to any questions I asked him afterwards, nor did he reply to me calling him out for a very weak vote-switch to Node (left it to marv to do the dirty work by agressively defending my accusations while also clogging up the thread with plenty of posts?). He has also, should he be town, been either terribly bad or terribly unlucky in his scumhunting. Lets look at a few people he has touched on: 1) Show nested quote +I've got my eye on ShadySands, annul and Mattchew right now. Pretty sure there's scum buried deep within that trio. 2 confirmed town flips. 2) Then the attack on annul - confirmed town flip. 3) After dropping annul, posting this Show nested quote +I'm willing to lynch into ShadySands, kingjames01 as it stands. We really need more content from everyone though. while placing his vote on Shady. 2 confirmed town. 4) Voted Node - no flip on him yet though. 5) Going back to annul (confirmed town) after mislynch. With very little motivation (and refused to explain himself when I questioned it). 6) Show nested quote +Someone shoot him. We can lynch Node easier than Annul, and I want them both dead.
Medics, on me and marv.
DTs, on BC and Mattchew.
We totally got this. Calling for a medic on a confirmed (yea, he is) scum, calling vig shot on a confirmed town. He is either scum or just randomly managed to call out about every single confirmed player (except Risen) the wrong alignment. VE is my top scum read atm.
6) His post-marv-revelation behavior
6a) After having had many people saying they were suspicious of him post Marvs revelation, how did he reply? He replied with some wierd extreme confidence. Look here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 08:12 Kreb wrote:On October 04 2012 06:51 mkfuba07 wrote:
So, did anyone actually read what I wrote about VE? What did you think about it? Anyone?
Well, a good 5+ have expressed suspicions of VE so far. I dont think we all need to go and quote each other saying we agree. The ball is in his court, lets wait and see if he has anything to say. Please, by all means. Bring it on. I haven't done anything wrong except be wrong. That doesn't mean I'm scum. It means I'm bad at the game. At least 75% of the players in this game knew that already. :/
Here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
When you line it all up like that it makes it easy to see how laughable the case against me is. Thank you kush. Seriously, I was starting to worry until you did that.
And here:
+ Show Spoiler +On October 04 2012 09:40 VisceraEyes wrote:
On October 04 2012 09:37 kushm4sta wrote:
You said you were going to read through the thread again so you could figure things out. Instead of making a case against someone you just sit in the thread wise cracking?
Me? Dude, we're lynching marv today. I can assure you I'm reading. I'll post something, don't you worry. It's not about the wise-cracking.
Just...trust me guy. You won't want to lynch me when it's time to actually pick someone to lynch.
Im not sure why scum would really wanna do that, but its 100% not towny to do. Compare to DPs case on Keirathi for example, or the french dudes on Shiao. No matter whether you like the cases or not, both Kei and Shiao were properly there to respond to the cases like a town should. VE did something completely different. Also note how he never really commented on this afterwards either, but rather seems to be banking on it being forgotten.
To me, it seems more likely he "gave up" or "lost interest" (someone already pointed that out, I think it was Coag, and VE rejected it) due to the percieved OPness/sillyness of the Paramedic role. He probably intented some kind of agressive/confident defense initally, but then just didnt care about it enough.
6b) Also note how he went trollmode with marv for a while (towny thing to do? hell no.) Its quite clear he enjoys playing with marv, which further strengthens the belief that he lost interest/gave up when Marv got caught in such a silly way.
7) Marvs motive behind his discussion with me
Ok, this is a new point, but I saved maybe the best for last. Lets look again at the context of Marvs behaviour of my case. First, lets look at what I wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
Overall I must say its remarkable how how people switch so fast to Node because of what I would call a very weak case made by a person who is currently set up to have a wagon starting on him (austin). I'd say its very likely we have at least one scum in the austin/VE/marv trio. Two is definitely possible too. All three? Maybe not, it would be a bit too obvious I feel.
On October 02 2012 18:35 Kreb wrote:
. I dont think Node is scum. The case is weak and the wagon strange.
Later I also kinda halfassed bunched Kush into my group of scummy people. So what do we know now:
- Node is scum (I was wrong)
- Austin was twon (I was wrong)
- Marv is scum (I was right)
Now, lets for a moment assume both VE and Kush are town. And with that assumption in mind, lets look at what Marv had to say about my case:
On October 02 2012 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
On October 02 2012 18:54 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 17:47 thrawn2112 wrote:
Kush are you scum?
People have been calling him out for saying scummy sounding stuff, and some people have said that he's not playing at all like his scum meta. Well I don't think he's playing like his town meta. He's known for saying dumb stuff from time to time as either town/mafia but this game he just seems way too illogical, even taking his meta into account. In the last game I played with him where he was town he was extremely helpful and the flames were few and far between. His scum meta has been exposed to be full of faked anger, extreme failures of logic, and constant insults towards everyone in the game. The way he's playing this game strikes me as a slightly toned down version of his scum meta. He rolled scum twice in a row and everyone got to see his scum play, so he would have changed his meta somewhat if he were to roll scum again. But it still seems like he's putting up somewhat of an act, and in the games where he was town you could see right through to his obviously convoluted townie thought process. While reading through his posts in this game I get this huge "I don't give a shit" vibe about his feelings towards the lynch and he's said several things that suggest he's not trying very hard or caring about his vote, and that's not the town kush I know.
Town kush = sometimes says dumb stuff, but you can see right through to his thought process and he's very cooperative in general
Scum kush = faked anger, extreme stupidity at times, and likes to throw around insults very often
This game = looks more like his scum meta than his town meta. He's being too illogical/rude for me to be able to write it off as his "scummy town-meta"
Hmm, this kinda rivals marv's earlier claim about Kush. And considering: -I think marv acted scummy in the Node case -marv kinda defended Kush when early votes started to land on him -Kush was also an early joiner of the Node wagon -You think Kush is playing a toned down scum game Kush could definitely earn a spot in my scummy-looking group of austin/VE/Marv.
Here. Let me tell you why you're fucking awful. You're fucking awful because you've already managed to make a 4-man connection before anyone involved (node, austin, kush). Who do you think is better at understanding meta, newbie thrawn (no offence intended at all, just fact) or me?
Who *have* we had flipped? We've had Shady flipped. Confirmed town. What drugs are you on when you're looking at those on the Node wagon as the most culpable, instead of the people who derailed it back to Shady?
Damn right I defended kush, I think he's playing to his town meta far more than his scum meta, and he's such a god damn easy lynch for scum just to park on going "lol scumslip must be scum."
Looking at the voting list, the interesting points are players like BC, Matt, Keir, talis. It became clear kj wasn't a realistic lynch target with plenty of time to spare. BC came in, contributed some, then totally disappeared. Not sure on Keir. talis may be the worst of the bunch with his awful case on VE and subsequent total disappearance.
Later turning into:
On October 03 2012 05:31 marvellosity wrote:
On October 03 2012 05:27 austinmcc wrote:
Marv, I don't know kreb's play well/at all, but right now I'm not as scummy on him as I am on other players, and at the very least it seems that pushing him is just going to get things more and more twisted up.
aye, it's why I've read his response and I'm not replying for now, as it's fruitless. I'm seeing him as misguided townie atm.
Now, specifically note how he is targetting me. Not the part of my case directed to him, but me (and my case) as a whole. Now, why would you want to do that if I only were right about Marv being scummy!!?? Why would he react like that if I was wrong about Node, Austin, VE and Kush?!!?
Theres absolutely no reason to. The aggressiveness of his defense clearly tells me I was onto something more than just him. If he was the only thing I had right in my post, theres several other much better approaches he couldve used to abuse my mis-reads.
He could have agreed on it, admitting it was wierd (which likely would have had me going straight after VE), knowing that there was a very high chance I'd go after a town. But he didnt.
He could have defended himself alone, citing town reads on VE as reason why he followed him. He didnt.
He could have not said anything at all, hoping it would turn into a austin or VE lynch. He didnt.
Instead he decided to go and agressively discredit me and as such my whole case. And I just cant see why he would do that if the only thing I predicted right was Marvs scummyness. I think I must have hit something more to motivate this response. And while it could possible be Kush, I think VE is the most likely person. Or hell, maybe even both.
Bonus point
+ Show Spoiler +This is definitely confirmation bias if I somehow would be wrong about all this, but out of all replies to the mkfuba/hapa thing, this still stood out to me: [B]On October 06 2012 21:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: Hapa
Twice in one game. Damn fine work guys. Sick crumb fuba. Really? Is that geniune happiness or irony and bitterness?
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That is why VisceraEyes is scum.
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Im a little bit interested in the sloosh case, but I still do not really see a reason to switch off VE. And on another note, mafia shot BKE, why would they do that?
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EBWOP: ##Vote VisceraEyes
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EPT
